Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. Today's date is July 21st, 2026. And we have nobody waiting right now.

If you want to give me a call, it is easy. Just dial 8772072276. And, well, there's one call coming in. That's good. Or, if you are so inclined, you can also just send an email to info at carm.org, info at carm.org.

Put the subject line, radio comment, or radio question.

Now, I just thought of something. It used to be that I would do hate mail and what I call wacko mail. On Fridays, I would do hate mail and wacko mail. I got a lot of responses on it. I got people who loved it and people who hated it.

But it really generated a lot of responses.

Now, maybe you're a Mormon listening to me in Utah. Maybe you are a Catholic listening to me someplace, or an Eastern Orthodox person, or even an atheist or a Muslim, and you do not like what I say.

Well, maybe you could send me a a hate mail. Tell me why I'm wrong, whatever it is, send it to info at carm.org because those get priority. Over just reading questions and things like that. I love when people say, man, you're stupid, you don't know nothing. And so I like to read those.

And then I try and read them with some enthusiasm.

Now, one time, I remember in particular, a guy wrote a paragraph. That was a run-on sentence with no punctuation in it. And so I figured that out and I said, okay, ladies and gentlemen, I'm gonna do this because I'm a professional. Don't try this at home, you might hurt yourself. And then I took one big breath and Tried to read the whole thing, couldn't make it, and then I went and then took it, and then did it again.

And you know, if I got through it, I said, Man, that was tough.

So, uh, we have fun with it, and I enjoy it.

So, if you don't mind having your particular view of hate mail or even wacko mail, maybe you don't have all your paws in a litter box and you feel like just venting, you can do that and uh get them on the air, maybe, because they're fun. And people miss it. You know, and and I used to get hate mail all the time. But people you're stupid, you're an idiot, you're a moron. And I go, Thank you.

That's nice.

Now, what did I say that was wrong? And you just, you know, you're a waste of oxygen. I get all these things. And that was kind of fun.

So I actually wrote a An article. and how to insult me. I actually have a list of insults. that are are on the Carm site. and uh one through ten and they become more sophisticated.

and they're all grammatically correct, etc. And uh one time one person wrote back one through ten. Just and I wrote back, well said.

So That was it was fun. All right, all right, all right, all right.

So There we go. And uh Let's get to Jacob from North Carolina. Jacob, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, long time listener, first time caller.

Sorry, I'm I get a little bit nervous.

So excuse me if I am stumbling over my words. No, it's alright, no problem now. It's all good. Um So yesterday I was I was listening to your broadcast and this guy had come on He was talking about how you can You received the Holy Spirit. Through tasting your tears?

Oh, yeah, that's Patrick. He doesn't have any of his paws in the litter box. Yes.

Well Just something in that conversation really I think it's semi On a f on the wrong foot. Or something, not that I believe what he was saying. I did think that was sort of ridiculous. I'm not. Sure, what the true basis of that really was, because it felt like he was drawing a straw.

But um You had thirds Something to him. Um What did you say? You said something like That because A certain percentage. In Christ, that meant his faith That meant his faith wouldn't be, um, valid. Right, this this guy was saying that you have to physically cry, you have to shed tears.

That's where the true baptism is, is in your tears. actual physical tears of repentance, that's the baptism. is a cheers. He's called in many times, so I know his position. And I said, What do you do with the people who physically can't cry?

And I did research, it's like 8% or 9%. Of men and women can't cry. There's something up with their tear ducts or something, and they can't cry.

Well then what happens in the Yeah. That's what that's actually what had got me, um I think spiraling a little bit Because it got me thinking about how other people In the world, may never be able to receive the Lord at all, and what happens to those people who are never exposed? And do they go to hell? Or does that mean that our religion is not true? Oh no no.

But Jesus said, you know, he died in the cross, rose from the dead, and he said he's the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody comes to the Father but through him.

So the fact is, without Christ, you can't be saved.

Now, let's look at that on people out in jungle groups who've never heard the gospel. But let's also compare it to babies in the womb who've never heard the gospel. Because they have died in the womb for varying reasons, do they automatically go to hell?

Well, the consensus is among most Christians that I've researched, and and I'm in this of opinion too, is that they go to heaven.

Now, does that mean, though, that someone in a tribe who's never heard of Christ who's 50 years old and dies to go to heaven? It doesn't mean that. But what I'm trying to show is that Technically speaking, we can't say you have to hear the gospel in order to be saved, otherwise, no babies during the womb could be saved.

Okay, so what's going on? Normatively speaking, we hear the word, we hear the gospel, we believe in the gospel, and we. We get saved.

Now, what do you do with those tribes people, for example, who never heard? God has his way of communicating to people. in different cultures at different times in different ways. In the Old Testament the Jews did not have a complete knowledge of who Jesus was. because he hadn't even yet been born.

And yet the Jews were following what they understood about the true and living God, revealed from the true and living God with the Old Testament Scriptures. And for all intents and purposes, those who put their faith and trust in Him at that level, we would say were saved. Even though they were saved without knowledge in Christ. They don't. I thought they don't.

Do Jews have a afterlife? Yes.

Oh yeah. All all people have an afterlife. All people. They either live in heaven or they live in hell. Yes, yes.

I do I know that, but in In the Jewish faith, is there an afterlife? Yeah. Yes there is, okay.

So I didn't know that.

Now, not all Jews believe in afterlife, some don't, some do, but yeah, it's in the Old Testament. It talks about going to be, like when David died, his son died. He says, when I die, I'll go be with him.

So there's an afterlife that that's there.

So Okay. There are lots of accounts, and they're kind of strange. I'm not exactly sure what to do with them. There's a book, for example, called Bruchko. B-R-U-C-H-K-O, Bruchko.

It's an interesting book. I read it many years ago. It's about a a a Christian a guy who became a Christian. Long story short, he went to Columbia, South America, to preach to a certain tribe. And I'm skipping a lot of details.

But they had a prophecy in their group, their culture. They were jungle people. They had a prophecy that a A man with white hair, because he had blonde hair. would come to them with the words of the true God on banana leaves. And he had a Bible.

And so they believed in him and the gospel. There's other tribes where uh I forget the name of the book. Maybe someone knows the book that does other ones. Like there was or is a tribe someplace where when the warring tribes would be against each other. Say one of them is being pursued, he could run to a certain place in the jungle.

which was just a like a square of, I don't know, six, eight feet, ten feet in diameter kind of thing of stones just a few inches high. an arrangement of stones in the square, and when he goes in there, no one can attack him. Even though the enemy be right there, there's no barrier, there's no doors, there's nothing. They can just shoot him with arrows. but they don't, because it's off limits.

That's r uh related to to uh the city of refuge. In the Old Testament. Yeah. And there's all kinds of things like this all over the world. In fact, Muslims in the Middle East are having visions and dreams of Jesus, and they're becoming Christians all over the place in the Middle East.

We don't hear about this on the news, but it's true. I heard about that, yeah. I heard about that on uh social media somewhere. Oh yeah. In fact, I knew uh I used to know a guy uh And Christian Prince.

People might know who he is. We've met. I used to have his phone number. I may still, I don't know, I'll call him sometime. I don't know if the numbers changed.

But uh he uh was a gentleman who knows Arabic, was raised in Arabic culture, speaks Arabic, worked for the United States government, etcetera, and uh was translating and and stuff, and he's a a strong anti Muslim. And he was telling me that he's listening to Al Jazeera. And they were talking about the conversions to Christianity that were happening all over the Mediterranean. And the numbers were like 1,000 a day. People are just converts all over the place.

So, the point I'm trying to make is: God has his way of communicating to whom he wants, the way he wants, when he wants. And that Though we don't understand how it works, and we just don't. I can't say. That with, I can't say 100%, you have to hear the gospel auditorily and then receive it. to be saved because babies wouldn't work.

It wouldn't work for babies, for example. And then, what about people with severe mental retardation? What about them? And so we get into these other areas.

So we're talking normatively. Yeah, you've got to hear this stuff. But God has his ways of communicating the gospel to different people at different times, different ways. And that's called inclusivism, that God can include people As long as It's biblically based and the things in it don't contradict Scripture. Than true.

And we could have people who potentially could be saved in different levels of knowledge, the same way the Jews were without Christ. without Christ proper in the Old Testament.

So that's called inclusivism. I lean towards inclusivism.

Now, there's something called exclusivism, where, nope, they have to absolutely hear the gospel and receive Christ, otherwise, they go to hell. And well, that would then mean all babies go to hell, and then there's a problem there, etc.

So you see, okay. Yeah. I see. Thank you. That that did clear things up.

Um That helped me, thank you. I have one more question. If that's okay. I don't want to take up too much time. No, go ahead.

What do you got? Um I was I really have only tuned in to um I'm listening to the radio, it's the truth network. I've only been listening in the afternoons. Um but I've have been having a hard time figuring out what faith the broadcast is. And like where you fit in and that.

Yeah, I know the owner I've met the owner uh personally. I've been to the headquarters. in North Carolina. And uh the guy who owns the station and the network, his name is Stu. And it's two efforts and he is a godly man.

Who wants to serve Jesus, and when you're with him, Everything's about Jesus. And he praises the Lord and he's an awesome guy. And He holds to the basics of the Christian faith, the Trinity and the deity of Christ, resurrection, salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and things like this. One thing, if I were to meet him again, because I'm in Idaho and he's out there, and we meet every couple, three years, you know, just doing things. But every time I meet him, it's about Jesus.

That's how he is. He's a good man. If you want to hold, they got a break, okay? I don't know if you want to hold or not, but hold on. All right, that's all.

That's it? That's really all. Thank you. Okay. That's all.

By the way, I'm just one of the guys that he lets me on the radio, all right? And you can go check out my website at carm.org. C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And my real name is Matt Slick. Look me up on the web and see what you find.

Hey folks, be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show.

If by any chance you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-226. seven six. Let me play off that the last caller about what uh what's going on with the Truth Network and Stu, when he asked about my relations there. Stu Epperson is the owner, founder of the network. And he's a great guy, and I don't think he's listening to this, it's not a big deal.

But he is a good guy, he loves the Lord, he wants to honor God, and that's a good thing. And so, every time I've been with him, it's about the Lord Jesus, it's about glorifying God, and it's about expanding the kingdom of God. That's his heart. And that's one of the reasons I continue to be a part of what the Truth Network is. And also, the guy asked, what's my relation there?

Nothing more than just. Just one of the guys that pays for airtime to be able to answer questions on the radio. And that's it, that's all it is.

Okay, so uh Not a big deal. Not a big deal, and I hope that helps. Let's get to Elijah from Pennsylvania. Elijah, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey Matt, uh can you hear me fine? Yeah, here you find me. What's up, buddy? What do you got? Okay, 'cause uh uh it's me from yesterday.

Uh I'm the I'm the one where Yeah, you know, couldn't hear my audio, but uh, that's right, much better, yes. Yes.

I wanted to continue that conversation.

So so I like your response that you gave me yesterday, but the second thing that I was trying to say where you couldn't hear me is that Uh uh uh what are your thoughts on the uh Muslim lady apologist who said that Um She thinks that the Christian God.

Well, she had asked this in a question. She was like, Which do you think is. More unjust, the Christian God or the Muslim God, because the Muslim God will. Forgive you through certain criteria that you have to go through of repentance and like, and like they'll give you like certain steps and like. You'll go through that and he'll forgive you versus the Christian God who.

sacrificed his innocent son who didn't deserve to die and killed him on the cross. And she was saying that w would a would a loving God really do this to his son? And uh so so uh that was my question that was on the next yesterday. Yes.

Uh she makes all kinds of errors in thinking, logic, understanding, bigging the question, failing to understand the true depth of nail of uh knowledge of justice and various things.

So she's ignorant. I'd be glad to talk to her. But Um To say that someone is innocent, yeah, that's true.

So here's an illustration I give. Let's say that my late wife and I came over to your house and There's a, I use this, it's called the lamp analogy. And you have this lamp that you really like, and in my exuberance or whatever, I accidentally break the lamp. And you're a cool guy, and you say to me, Look, Matt, you know, you broke my lamp it was an accident. It doesn't matter if it was on purpose or not, whatever.

But you say, I forgive you for breaking that lamp.

Now pay me $10 for it.

So here's a question. Is that true forgiveness to require payment of someone you for you have forgiven. What would you say? Is it proof forgiveness if you if you require retainment? Do you is it their then true forgiveness if you require them to pay for it?

or do something to earn it. Um I would say Um No, because if you truly forgave them, you wouldn't. Excuse me. Yeah. Okay, good.

So my wife is sitting there and you say to her, you say, Mrs. Slick, Matt broke my lamp. You pay me ten. I forgive him, but I want you to pay. ten dollars for you know ten say ten bucks for the lamp.

Is that true forgiveness? No. I ag I agree, good.

Now in true forgiveness, who pays for the replacement of the lamp? Um The the the owner of the lamp. Very good.

Now in real life I'm going to offer to pay it, etcetera. But this is an illustration.

So, in true forgiveness, the owner is the one who makes the payment for the replacement and undoing the damage. by which he's offended in true forgiveness.

Now my offence was against you, And you forgave. And you paid. Right? Yep. That's true forgiveness.

In Christianity, God is the one who's offended. God's the one who forgives God is the one who pays. And he does this on the cross. And so It's not unrighteous. It is gracious.

The law or the requirement of the payment is satisfied that satisfies justice. You receive mercy in that you don't have to pay But you also receive grace in that God forgives you everything. in Christian thought. The idea of justice, mercy, and grace are all met in the work of God.

Now let's shift it to Islam. In Islam, what happens is you simply repent, you say you're sorry. Hey, I'm sorry. And God will forgive you.

Now the problem is, the damage to the lamp still is in place.

So if you were to say to me, Matt, I just forgive you, And then nothing happens after that. There's no replacement of the lamp, the damage is not undone, it's not taken care of, then that's not right. And so in Islam, The sin is against Allah because it's His law which reflex which reflects His character. But what happens in Islam, he ignores his own law in order to forgive someone else. That is injustice.

To ignore the requirements of your own character, your own holiness as Allah is supposed to be. is then to ignore what you are as a basis. This undermines the idea of consistency and righteousness in the concept of Allah, who's a Unitarian God, who cannot provide the necessary preconditions for intelligibility, but that's another topic.

So in Islam They fail to understand that the transference of the debt to someone who's innocent is not to a third party uh like my wife in the in the analogy. You know, you forgave me and you make her pay. because she's not the one who did the offence, and she's not the one offended. But in Christian thought, Jesus, the pre-incarnate Christ, God, is the one offended, and He's the one who pays. because he does the forgiving and by his grace.

So, there's no inconsistency inside of the Christian worldview. But there is an inconsistency inside of the Islamic worldview because it requires. That God Allah just simply forgive you based on how good you are on your sincerity. He just Just forgives. But that means, then, that the holiness of his offence It goes undealt with.

That means justice is not met. In Islamic thought. Therefore, since justice is not met in Islamic thought, therefore, the God of Islam is unjust. It's okay. Uh Yeah, that makes sense.

And recently I learned of I think it's in the Hadith of a Christian apologist exposing how uh it says that on the day of judgment, um So Muslims will have their sins atoned for by Allah. Putting their sins on Jews and Christians, and Jews and Christians will have to go to hell for their sins while the Muslims get to go to heaven because of that.

Well, if that's the case, uh that's that's a demonstration of unrighteousness because, as you uh rightly understood, to transfer the debt to my wife in the lamp analogy is equivalent to God transferring the sins to someone not involved against him. And they're not, and he's just transferring the Muslim sins to somebody else who didn't do those sins, but the Muslim did. Which is unjust.

So, hold on, we'll be right back after these messages. Please, folks, stay tuned. Hope this is interesting. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 87720-72276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call.

Let's get back on here with. Elijah from Pennsylvania. Kit Rutter, are you still there? Yep, I'm still here. All right, so did my explanation make sense to you, Mr Tell?

Yeah, it made made perfect sense.

Okay, good.

And yeah, the Hadith that's talking about that is Book forty-nine called you the Taba. Hadith 711-712. And I've not written on this, but I may do that just because of our call. And one of the things I discovered by going through the Quran was it talks about sacrifices. And which is really interesting because it doesn't really define what those sacrifices are and for what reason.

So, um The idea of our sins being put on, of our Muslim sins being put on us. is logistically uh problematic. And what I'll probably do is write an article exposing that idea.

So Alright, there's a lot of problems there.

Okay. Yeah, and what I find hilarious is that. is that uh one of the one of the major errors that uh That uh, I think I think it's the Quran or the Hadith, I don't remember which one it was, but one of them gets this so wrong. It says that it says that the Jews. Say that Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Jews never believed that ever.

Right. Yeah, they say the Quran is perfect, blah, blah, blah. It's not. It's been altered, it's been changed. There are problems in it, contradictions in it, inconsistencies in it.

And when he talked to Muslims about it, They generally, the ones who will talk to you about this have a list or a source that they can go to that give you standard answers. They don't do their own thinking. And I've actually asked Muslims questions based on what they say, and most of them aren't very good thinkers.

Now, some are really good thinkers. I'm just going to say that. But they're few and far between.

So most of them haven't thought this through, don't know what's going on. They just recite and stuff.

Now, if you can send me the video that she does, I'd be glad to do a response video because I'm starting to do more of those. And I've got another one I've got to release.

Now if I have time, I release my outlines on philosophy. Just today, I can then hopefully get into the issue of some of this stuff with Islam because it's been something I've been wanting to study more.

So uh if you can maybe provide that URL. That'd be great. You know? Yeah, she she she actually did a um They are debased. A couple months ago, and so far it got almost three million views.

It's called One Muslim versus 20 Christian Women, and it's on the Dr. Death Show YouTube channel. And um And she she's a very smart Muslim. I believe she did better than many Muslim debaters I've seen, but she she still got destroyed uh in that debate.

Okay. Well, yeah, it'd be interesting to see and um And stuff.

So, yeah, I plan on, at least the way it is so far, I plan on doing more on Islam. and dealing with it more and I want to do more.

So Okay. Uh I got I d I d I do have one more question, that's okay. Sure, go ahead, no problem. All right. All of the Unitarian and oneness versus Trinitarian debates I've seen, I don't think I've ever seen you or anybody else bring up this verse in in proving that uh The Holy Spirit is God.

And so in Jeremiah. 31, 33, 34. it's it's uh God speaking, but in Hebrews ten fifteen to seventeen is identifies The Holy Spirit as being the one who was speaking in that passage. I know that Unitarians will say that it's the Father that was speaking, but clearly, Hebrews says that it was the Holy Spirit.

Okay, let me look at this, because that's that's good. And you're right, I haven't used it. And let's see. Behold, this is 31. Jeremiah 31, 31 declares the Lord.

When I will make a covenant with the house of Israel, the house of Judah, not the co the covenant which I made with the fathers of the day. I took them by the hand to bring them out of Egypt. A covenant which they broke, the all that was a husband of them. declares Yahweh. But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares Yahweh.

I will put my law within them, and their heart I will write, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. They will not teach again each man his neighbor, each of his Brothers say no the know Yahweh, for they will all know me. The least of them the greatest declares Yahweh. For thus says Yahweh, who gives a son of light, And uh Okay now Hebrews ten 15. And the Holy Spirit also testifies She was For after saying, This is the covenant that I will make with them.

after those days declares Yahweh, that is really good, man. That's good. I like that. Dude. Yeah, I just discovered that today when I was reading the book of Hebrews, I was like, whoa, I never saw anybody brought this one up before.

Wow, man, thanks for helping me out on that. I'm going to go through that and take a look at it and probably because I wanted to check it out and. I think it's a good one.

Now I think I'm gonna try and imagine ways they could try and get out of it. With the spirit as the force that quotes g God, they would probably say that. But that's not what the text is saying.

Okay. And it says uh And the Holy Spirit also testifies for us for after saying. This is the Lord. What they might say is For the Spirit testifies, but the one who sang it was Yahweh, not the Spirit. They might come back and say that.

So, I'm gonna have to look at that and see what the linguistics would be and logic and things like that. But that's awesome, man. That's awesome. Hey, appreciate you sharing that with me. Seriously.

Good stuff. Yeah, uh I think the I think the uh E S D Since Um He said not A test upon middle of the Um In the in Hebrews? Wait, uh Wait, yeah, hold on a second. Let me try to look it up. Uh, Hebrews ten, sixteen.

Yeah, the ESV says and the Holy Spirit also bears witness for after saying. Yeah. Well, he's praying as a witness to us, after you said before, that's King James. R S V. And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us for after saying.

And uh And then the NIV Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this, for he says.

Now the question is what's going to be the antecedent of he? I'm just thinking like a cultist, okay? This is what I do.

So, how they then try and get out of this?

Well, the He isn't referring to the Spirit, but to what Yahweh said. And then you have to come back. and show why that is not consistent with the text. But this is the kind of thing that they will do. But that's good, man.

It's good stuff. All right? It's good stuff. Yeah, in fact hey, let me share one with you, okay? that I've I love I love that's not used very often.

And um you go to Isaiah 40 verse 3. All right. And it says, of voices calling clear the way of Yahweh in the wilderness. Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God. And then you go to Mark 1, it says, as it is written in Isaiah the prophet, behold, I sent a messenger ahead of you.

Who will prepare the way? The voice of one crying in the wilderness, make ready the way of the Lord.

Well that's Yahweh. It's ref in reference to Christ.

Okay. Anyway, there's all kinds of cool, quick and slick things that are out there. I like what you did there, Jeremiah 31:31-35. out of Hebrews ten thirteen through eighteen. I like it.

Yep. All right, man. You have a good one, and I'll speak with you soon.

Alright, may God bless.

Okay. Yeah. You know, that was a great example of the body of Christ working together. And uh I've read those verses before, and the light never went on about that. I think that's good stuff.

I'm going to run through it. And see what is the potential is of Counter-arguments to see if what the cults and false religious people might say.

So there you go. Good stuff. Alright, now, hey, if. You want to give me a call? All you got to do is dial 877-2072276.

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Hey. Why don't you stay tuned? We got 15 more minutes of the show. Be right back after. These messages It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. Last segment of the hour. Let's get to Cody from North Carolina. Cody, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, how's it going? Hope you're doing well. It's going, doing well by God's grace.

Okay, man. What do you got, buddy? Um Harris Had a question. Last week I think you spoke with Tiffany about dinosaurs. I had called, I didn't think uh we're just gonna get to it was all it was.

I'd originally had a way of thinking which was mature earth, mature atom, as far as like timelines for how rock dating goes and everything else. And then you did talk about dinosaurs being in job. I just didn't know how that worked into that. like theology point. Yeah, at the end of Joe, the last three or four chapters, there are two creatures that are mentioned, and they don't fit the standard definitions or characteristics of known animals.

for example, hippopotamus, or alligator, or elephant. One of these creatures is capable of spitting fire. And this seems to reflect on some ancient stuff out of China with fire breathing breathing jag dragons.

Now some say, Well, that's ridiculous, it's just a legend. There is a bombardier beetle who can uh actually uh Have two different caustic chemicals in bags, and it's abdomen, it puts them together, and the air it ignites, and fire comes out. And so the idea that this is not possible is just simply an opinion. We know from nature that such a thing is possible. How is it working?

We don't know. There is the creature in in the water. The wake is like a tr uh what is it? The wake is huge and It talks about, let me see if I get this, behemoth. having bones like bronze, is that of Job 40.

uh is tall like a cedar. This thing is humongous. A cedar is a big tree. It feeds on grass is unmatched in strength, And so that's that. The Leviathan is a fire-breathing, armor-plated sea creature.

Some argue it's ascribed to a dragon-like creature.

So you can, and that's in Job 41.

So start in Job 40, and you start reading. And you can see Uh these these things are unusual. They're not really just normal creatures, you know, uh alligators have been proposed or hippopotamus and things like that. Doesn't work.

Okay. So I guess if my question is that if like I have the mindset of mature earth, mature Adam, he made the earth, and then boom, it automatically looks like it's Millions of years old, type of thing. My mindset was always that the fossils were within those rock formations at that point.

So I didn't know how that With dinosaurs being in Job, how that would play into having that perspective if my mindset was always just dinosaurs were just fossils that were put in when he made the the earth mature. No, they probably really did live. And there have been anecdotal citations of people in jungled-based tribes in Africa who have identified some uh pictures. of of dinosaur creatures. and they point out into a certain area of the jungle and say that's where they are.

There are things like this all over the world.

Now I'm not a a conspirator uh conspiratist, but For example, Bigfoot in the North American continent.

Something's going on. There's lots of stories about this. And I remember watching one particular view. Or documentary where a bunch of guys, this is a good story, a bunch of guys who are very capable, they would go out and search for people who were lost in the forests. They knew how to stay out overnight.

There were years of experience doing this. They're not survivalists, but they know how to do all this, as they're looking for people. And there's a group of them who went out looking for someone, and they all said, After one particular night, there, they're never going back to that area because there was something there. big, huge, fast, moving. And these all these guys did the same thing.

So we have these statements like this. We have things like this. There are statements of large creatures in the ocean. that don't fit. you know, the descriptions of whales.

And there's uh There's one story I read years ago where someone was doing a trip. on trying to re Recapitulate, redo a trip on the Contequi or something like this back in the day. One of these scientists, anyway, in the middle of the evening, when they were drifting through, all scientists, all guys doing this, drifting through, something rose up out of the ocean underneath them, and it was huge. And they could see it in the moonlight, but they couldn't see it very well. But they knew it was just humongous.

And it wasn't a whale, and it disappeared. There are just stories like this all over the world.

Now, what do you do with them?

Well, you know, they're always fuzzy pictures and things like this and hearsay. Thing.

So, are they true?

Well, okay. But when we have these things in the Bible like this described, and when we have cave drawings of dinosaurs. And those exist out there in the world too.

Something else is going on. You've got to understand that the secular scientists today, their worldview is Christianity is not true. Religions are not true. That science is the ultimate. And so, therefore, They will jump on board this idea that the earth is millions of years old, the universe is billions of years old, and there's a 60 million year gap between man and fossils and things like this and dinosaurs.

They just assume it and they interpret all data in light of that. And they're very intelligent, very sophisticated, and they can they can do this in a lot of ways and sound very convincing. But there are counter evidences too, and those for the most part, what I've seen are suppressed. And this is true. They are a lot of counter evidence is suppressed, and there's scientists who stated such.

that is suppressed. And uh like Lucy. Have you ever heard of Lucy, the humminid ancestor? It's supposed to be a missing link.

Well, it turns out, this is the information that's suppressed, is that the fossils that were found were found in slightly different rock strata within a few inches of each other vertically and within 10, 15, 20 feet of each other horizontally. And yet they put them together and saying this is a single. A creature. Stuff like this that is. People are desperate to find evidences that will support their worldview.

And this is what we have.

So Hey, I have no problem with God creating dinosaurs. And then the flood wiped them out, let's just say, and their con condensed material produced shale coal shale and oil. and and the stuff that we need for oil for our our end time stuff. No problem at all.

Okay. So if we follow that train of thought and dinosaurs, we're living on the earth. And then if we look at it from the mature earth perspective, they would have just come into existence after mature earth was put was created essentially. Yeah, I was wondering in my head. Yeah.

If you go to Genesis, I think one of the timelines is all the animals well, that day is when the dinosaurs would have been created.

Now, there's different theories about this stuff. Here's one of the theories I heard someplace. I just love this theory. I'm not saying it's true, but I just love it. Because it makes sense, but is it true?

Well, Could it be that the dinosaurs were an attempt by the evil ones to. uh modified creatures the way God uh created uh uh people. and that they are Um aberrant experiments by the evil one. And there's more to that. I'll just leave that at that one.

And here's another pitch show. That would make sense. That's right at that time of the Nephilim and everything else. Yeah, it's possible. And these are just fun theories.

And here's another one. Apparently, the Bible does not record rain at any time. uh before the flood. After the flood is when rain started, or during the flood, is when rain started occurring.

Well, I've read some articles where. There's a thought and some evidence for this. that if that's the case, then the diffused light of the sun would have refracted around the earth even at night, so that it would never be completely dark any place on earth, Because before the rain, the atmosphere had a thick blanket of water in the atmosphere. Because it says the heavens of the deep, the fountains of the deep, and above were opened up. And so There have been some calculations.

I read some articles where some people said if this was the case, blah blah blah, then it would have meant that the light would have diffused around the earth and we would not have had absolute dark. This could theoretically provide a greenhouse effect, not a runaway greenhouse effect, but a greenhouse effect where higher temperatures were the norm all over the world, and the light diffused meant a lot more photosynthesis, therefore creatures could have grown long larger. And there's some discussions about this kind of stuff.

So You know? I don't know. That does make a lot of sense and that's a lot of food for thought. As I I have no problem uh having faith without knowing all the answers. His thoughts are higher than mine.

So it's just cool to try try and think about it about human nature. I did have one other question if you have some time.

Well, we got two other callers waiting, so why don't we get to them and then call back tomorrow, okay? All right, buddy, wait. All right, then. God bless. Have a blessed day.

Okay, you too. All right. I love that kind of stuff. It's just fun to talk about. It's fun.

Let's get to Todd from Michigan. Todd, welcome. You're on the air. Awesome. I'll be really, really quick and it kind of fitting.

to what you guys have talked you just got done talking about. My two questions. My pastor just got done with eschatology. He's going right back to Genesis. And he kind of prompted us to do some searching.

And he brought up two points. He said Satan's garden is a mineral garden. And he said the earth has been flooded twice. There's uh okay. Um I have not heard that the flood has been the earth has been flooded twice.

And what would he say about the menu? One, two. Oh no no no, that's called the gap theory. And so, not many people really hold to that, but the gap theory is based out of Genesis 1 and 1, 2.

Okay, so let me go through this really quickly. And um Yeah, and so uh You know, I actually get that.

So, can you go to Satan's garden be in a mineral garden? That's kind of intriguing more intriguing than I. I know what you're saying about the garden. Wait, wait, I don't understand. I'm just saying that.

I don't understand. What do you mean? The mineral garden? You know, I didn't totally understand that, but wasn't there something, you know, Satan had. Are these minerals on him?

Well, that's out of Isaiah. That's out of Ezekiel 28. And um And so it's just a description of him. It's all.

So okay, because he was real vague and I think he was just prompting us to search the scriptures. And so I just kind of wanted to get a little m Matt Slick insight into it. The gap theory, first of all, has problems. And uh It was popularized, I don't know, 100 or 20 years ago or so, but uh and I understand what it's coming from. I don't hold to it.

I don't think there's any merit to it. The idea that when you go to Ezekiel 28, Um Let's see. I think it's the deal 20 to make sure. Uh lapus uh lapus. Yeah, it's Ezekiel 28, starting at verse uh 13, you are in Eden.

Every precious stone was your covering, the ruby, the topaz, diamond, beryl, onyx, jasper, lupus, lazuli, etc. They were your workmanship. You were the anointed cherub who covers and these were created. Anyway, so this is just simply a description of Satan. It doesn't mean he had a garden of minerals.

That is. I'm sorry, but it's exegetically ridiculous to say.

Okay. Alright. And we're out of time.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Right but God bless.

Now Papo. Oh, we're talking what he's going to talk about tomorrow, divine substance. That could be an interesting topic. Red of time, Papo, so MMA Minano. Anyana, to call me tomorrow.

Let's t um. Yeah, I just have a rare time. May the Lord bless you, and by His grace, we'll be back on here tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. We'll see you.

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