Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Um It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. Today's date is, let's see, July 17th, 2026. And uh there you go.

So If you want to give me a call, as usual, all you have to do is dial 877-2072276. You can also email me. And that's easy. All you do is send the email to info at carm.org info at carm.org. and put in the subject line, rate of comment or rate of question, and we can get to it.

We've got a caller coming in, we've got three open lines. And uh hey, at the end of this month I'm gonna be down in Salt Lake City. And every now and then I think about that. I wonder if there's anybody down there who'd like to just meet at a restaurant one of the nights just to. Just be fun.

If you guys want to do that, anybody who wants to do that, just email me, info at carm.org. I've done it before a few years ago and met at a restaurant and had several people show up. And it was just fun. We just, you know, talked about the radio show and the Christians that were there and and I think a Mormon showed up too. And we it was a great time.

We didn't bash on or anything. And we were just good conversations and good stuff.

So anyway, at the end of this the last weekend of this month, Two.

Okay, now if you want to call me, like I said, 8772-0722- seven six.

Now last night I was on with Edramine And uh I Clay Clayton? Oh, I shouldn't remember the other guy's name, Kenny Clayton. And there are four of us with Andrew Eckleport. And we're discussing the issue of the charismatic gifts. And of course, I believe in all of the charismatic gifts availability today, but not in the same level as the apostles were using all the stuff on command.

But I believe that they're for the church today, and I think the church should be seeking them. That's what I think. Because the Bible tells us to. In fact, I asked that question of them I think two or three times as a group. And no one ever responded to it.

So I don't know. We'll see. Um I think that's about it. Can't think of Much else. Let's just get to Clayton from Virginia.

Clayton, welcome. You're on the air. Yeah.

Well, good a afternoon. Matt. Good afternoon. Yeah, I'll see if I can. Mm-hmm.

Okay. Arg I want you to sit down. I want to talk to you for a second. I'm sure. My cabins.

I want to take my hat off with you. Because you did an awesome job. This boy called up and was scared. crying, upset, and he sounded he thought he was going to go to hell. But the way you handled the situation, Matt, you took your hat off, the mic.

And you talk to him. like a sun.

Well praise good. And I mean Yep. That was awesome. I have never heard that on a radio talk show. and I love you for it and I respect you for it.

And now, what do you think?

Well, thank you. That's a great compliment. Thank you very much. Um You know, I believe that as we get older, And we look back upon the damage we've done to ourselves and our own lives if we have thought about them. And we've dealt with them, we've come to peace with them, so to speak.

Right. That. It enables us to help others who have yet to go through those things or are in the midst of them. And so like I said, you know. It it it's it's like a biblical thing, right?

Is the guy with a sheath? He was lost. And the teacher came Settled it. I loved it. I thought it was green.

And especially when you said they had opened up and told him how much of a sergeant you were. He let up on the other end of the phone like, Oh gee, I'm not by myself And that was awesome. You know, here's really.

Well, praise God, and I appreciate that. I know, and I did. I praise God, I did. You know, you are awesome. And I'm not trying to squirrel your head up, but I mean, I'm talking for everybody that heard that last night.

I'm speaking for all of them.

Okay. Well, you know, um We're all in the same boat, and some of us have just been in the boat a little bit longer and know what storms have come and passed. And we can tell people who are new on the path who say, No, it'll work out. And that's a privilege that we have through experience. But you said something that reminded me of something in seminary when I went to seminary.

And I went to SEM and Uh I haven't thought about this in so long. And so we had some assignments, and this one guy came over because some of the assignments dealt with false religions, and I was known as the guy to talk to you about that.

So he comes over and um we get talking. And he was, anyway, one of those times where we start confessing, yeah, we're struggling with this, we're struggling with that. And I remember the moment when I was so glad he was struggling with his sin because I remember thinking, I'm not the only one. And it was a great conversation. Yeah.

It was great. Everybody knows Mad, the atheist hater, the Mormon killers. And you can splice them up and throw them through the window. But then you were just this normal Human being helping out of all sheep. And now for my question.

I don't know if you can help me with mine, though, but. Sure. Sure, what I got. I'm ready.

Okay, I talked to you one time before about my wonderful charts. It has the eight Sunday school people in it that are like zombies. The church will hold about 125 to 130 people. Before the pandemic hits, now we're lucky if we get twenty five or thirty. All right.

And they don't want to get off their A double S's to try to help this church.

So I was thinking about that if I went out and went door to door trying to do something with his church. How should I go about it? How should I approach it?

so forth.

So you're my teacher today, so give me some insight.

Well, what I would do is get some asbestos gloves, a helmet, and some hockey pads. And. I was thinking the same thing. And then, after a lot of prayer, just start doing what you think God would have you do. Let me tell you a quick story.

My friend Chuck, I've known him since 1980. Oh, yeah, he's the one that's on the show, too, right? Every now and then, he helps out. He's a great guy.

Well, when we. I know who he is, I heard him.

Okay. Well, when we first were together, you know, he was he introduced me to apologetics and um We decided to go door to door together. And so we ended up at a door. On Omega Street. We didn't know where we were going.

We ended up on Omega Street. That's obviously where you gotta end. And we got out and went to this door. And this lady was frantic and she said, Come in, you know, and we're not gonna go in. And this is Saturday morning, and she's calling the paramedics because a guy a couple of doors down was having a heart attack.

and his name, for real, was Harry Wolfe. And that was his name, Harry Wolfe. And uh anyway, the paramedics came and they took him away. And now, what happens when ambulances and sirens come into a neighborhood on a Saturday? people start Uh coming out of their home.

Well, yeah, and we had twenty people coming out of their homes all s around us and Chuck and I are sitting there with our Bibles in our hands, and this one kid looks at us as everybody's, Amelia has finally left. And this guy looks at us and says, What are you guys doing here? And everybody started staring at us, and we realized God had arranged it so that. we would have a crowd to preach to. And it wouldn't have happened if we hadn't stepped out.

And so Chuck is one who preached to him. But the thing is, I say, I have a saying. I say just trust and go. You pray. And you trust and you go forward.

You don't have to have a market plan. You don't have to have everything mapped out. But if God's putting upon your heart to do it, Go give it a go. And You make mistakes like that same day, later on, I made a big mistake. But that's okay, because We don't make mistakes if we're not trying.

So I say, just trust God, pray, trust, and go. And just see what God does. And pray that the Lord would put a fire underneath the rear ends of the people in the church. They'd have a heart for the Lord. And if you pray this kind of thing, it takes a while.

for God to work conviction in them and and to present things to them before the people start waking up. And if you're out there doing things, you'll get known as the one who's doing it, they'll start coming to you. Like that's what I'm hoping. That's what that's what I'm hoping. You know, all of a sudden they go.

Where are these people coming from? They're gonna go up to them and go, This guy named Clint came out here. I don't want no praise. I'm just doing the Lord's work, that's all.

Okay. Yep. That's it. And you know, I'm almost 70 now, and all my years of experience. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

How old are you? I thought you were like 59. No, no, no. I'll be 70 at the end of the year. That's right.

I'm old. I'm 71 August the 10th.

Well, happy birthday. You're a year and a half ahead of me. Mother's Day, right? Yeah.

And then we'll let you go. All right. After what happened with Kevin's Let me get my money together the first of the month. And I'm going to send your organization about $40 or $50 a month. Does that sound like a game plan?

Well, we appreciate that. It helps. It helps us a lot. And so, yeah, and thanks. Appreciate it, brother.

Oh, wait. Yes, sir. Love you a lot, Matt. Go to your next call and wish you luck.

Well, thanks a lot, Clinton. Appreciate it, brother. All right. Yeah.

Okay, bye.

Well, that was a nice call. And yeah, that that uh gentleman from yesterday, um You know, it's just. There we go. It was uh I'm glad he called. I hope he calls again back later.

Maybe he's listening right now, but he calls back later when he's gone through some more and processed some more. And uh you just push him through, you know, not push him, but side by side, walk through with them some of the things to go through. This is one of the realities of us as Christians. We have to go through things. And A lot of people don't realize that God is the one who grants that we have suffering.

Now, this is found in Philippians 1:29. To you, it has been granted both to believe. in him and also to suffer for his sake.

So we're to suffer and the thing about suffering is that it it carves things out of us and it leaves room for other things.

Now if your heart is for Christ then the things that are carved out are the sinful Um crusty uh sinful things that have become part of us.

sometimes pain is that scraper. that reaches down into our soul and We have to deal with it. And so You know, we we've all suffered loss. My you know, my wife passed away last year, and and uh my wife and I uh we bare buried a son. And we've seen two of our children just walk away from the Lord.

We've had to go through bankruptcy at one point. We've had death threats. I've been swatted. We go through things. And I know that a lot of you guys out there, you go through different things.

Your cars break down, my cars have broken down, we go through those things. What is it that you do in the midst of them? Do you praise Him? Do you thank him? Or do you complain and murmur?

Well, let me tell you. If you complain and murmur, you're not learning. But if you open your eyes and calm your heart before him and say, Lord, what is What is it you have for me here? It's difficult. I don't like it.

but my eyes are on you. And if you do that, Then you can get through these things usually a lot better, a lot easier. Usually. And I know. At first I remember complaining and whining, And now when things happen.

I more and more say, okay Lord, what do you have for me in this? What do you want me to learn? Where have I failed and where am I failing?

so that I might serve him better.

Alright, so there you go. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages, please. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Uh It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All Robin, welcome back to the show. Hey, if you want to give me a call, we have two open lines: 8772-07-2276. Let's get to Todd from North Carolina. Todd, welcome.

You're on the air. Yeah.

How are you this evening, Matt? By God's grace, doing very well. By God's grace. I guess you're going to be able to do it. I'm glad.

It's probably as warm there as it is here in Winston-Salem. My God, it's. It's hot. Let me check the water right now. It is.

And a little rain would be very nice. Yeah, we had a thunderstorm this morning. Anyway, the reason I called Matt was to ask um Is there any thought to extend your show to about an hour, hour and a half more? There's nothing we can do. That would depend upon.

Yeah, depend on availability of time slots and an increase of cost. Oh, okay.

Okay, okay. Yeah, it it costs us. Yeah, you've got a good radio voice. Uh you're an interesting pastor to listen to.

Well, thanks. Yeah, I'm an ex-pastor. I thought I would call you and bring that to your attention.

Well, I'll tell you what, if you want it to extend, you can always just email the station and talk about that. But it comes down to support. If people support us and support the show first. Sure, just like a church, yeah. Or at least that's what it sounds like.

Yeah, it it is. It's it's this mon it's cost us. We've been doing radio now, I've been doing it full I mean, not full time, but I mean uh five days a week for about twenty one years now.

So it's it's it's you've been doing this show 21 years. Yeah, it's on different networks and stuff like that. Yep. Oh, are are do you have a network on the west coast? Yeah.

No, uh we're on the truth network. Uh And so before I was on, you know, it started local here: one station, then two, then three, then four, and I think it was six. And then was doing that for a while. And then that ended. And two weeks later is when the Bible Answerman guy, Hank Hanigraff, went apostate and went to the East Orthodox Church.

And it left a void as stations dumped him. And then I was contacted and they said, Hey, do you want to fill his spot? I said, Sure. And we worked out a deal and we continued, and that's how I ended up here. Be So Okay.

Yeah.

I've only been in North Carolina for five years. It's because of politics and certain business people and and things. I was A lot of us were driven out of California. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm from California.

So, so where were you from? Where were you from California? Yeah, where were you from? Where was I from? I'm sorry.

I'm from Southern California County, Southern California, the city of Fullerton. Oh, I used to live in Fullerton. Yeah, I worked at Kimberley Clark. Beautiful. Yeah, off of Orange Thorpe.

And Euclid or whatever. Yeah, I was I was I lived in Buena Park for years li and lived in Anaheim and went to Fuller. Oh, yeah, I'm I'm from there. And then went went down south to s to uh Escondido and went to seminary. And then from there moved here.

Escondido in in San Diego County, yeah. Right, North County, yeah. I missed an interesting question, and then I'll leave you alone. Sure. How long is seminary?

Is that four years, like a regular college? No, normal graduate degrees are two years, and you can get a little bit more and a little bit less. But this was a Master of Divinity, which is if you do it full-time, it's three years full-time.

So it was so difficult that we had no master's thesis requirement. It was just that difficult. It was the fifth most difficult graduate school academically in the country at the time, number five. Yeah, it was tough. Bible study and things like that can get complex.

For myself, I try to keep it simple because it can get pretty deep. Yes.

Well, I remember the first day we were in class when I was a freshman. In uh seminary, um we were told memorize the Hebrew alphabet and then when you've memorized it, learn these five, six, seven words, then go to this verse in the Hebrew and when you get back into class in two days we'll be translating. That's how it started. Yeah.

It was like that.

So that's not stressful at all. Man, it was hard. But, you know, I learned a lot there, and I got some great teaching, and there were good, godly men there.

So I'm glad I went, and I have my Master's of Divinity now.

Well, and it helps if they're patient and they explain things and give you a chance to. Yes.

Yes, uh let's just say that Hebrew beat me up pretty badly. And Greek just got me in a couple of headlocks, but uh I it was it was interesting, and particularly when you have a book at 600 pages and the professor says, Okay, turn in my book to page 385. We're going to be going through this chapter, and then you have to write a twenty page paper explaining it, and you just go, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you good?

So You turn before you even start. Oh, man. It was hard. I almost quit a couple times. I almost quit.

It was that hard. But, you know, glad I finished it. Glad I finished it. Yeah, yeah. Matt, thank you for taking my call and have a blessed weekend.

Okay, you too, man. God bless. Thanks a lot. Take care.

Okay. Bye-bye. All right, so now let's get to Adam from North Carolina. Adam, welcome, you're on the air. Hey Matt, thank you for taking my call.

I shall not stop.

So we do that. Yo, one of the ramifications of listening to you is that God starts pushing and saying hey You should be doing this.

So, two of the things that I'm really convinced to do is I need to get back to reading my Bible and fellowship.

So with that, I think it's time to retire My New King James. Good. And I'm kind of leaning towards the ESV.

Okay. Seems like it's got a a little bit more literal, but still a little bit poetic. What are your thoughts? The ESV is a very good translation, a very solid translation. You can't go wrong with it.

And every translation has advantages and disadvantages.

So I'm hooked on the NESB 95. and I'm also using now the Legacy Standard Bible. which is based on the NESB 95, and it u it replaces Lord with Yahweh, which I like. And so I just, you know, just do that. But the ESV is fine, and you can preach out of it, study out of it.

What I recommend you do is have three Bibles. and you compare them. The most literal kind of a of a English Bible is the NASB. and then the ESV is not quite as literal, and then the NIV is not quite as literal as that. And so their their aims are different.

And then you can go study and compare. What I'd recommend you do. In all seriousness, Romans 5.18. Check that particular verse out in different versions and see what you find. Because the NASB has the correct translation, and the other ones let's just say compromise just a touch.

And it's a discussion I have to have with people and explain things. But it doesn't mean that the ESV isn't any good or the NIV isn't any good. In seminary, our professors use the NIV.

Okay, so You know, you have good good Bible choices there.

Okay. Okay. All right. I'll run with it. See where we go.

Thanks, partner. I appreciate you. All right, man. God bless. God bless.

God bless. Bye-bye. Okay. Yeah, the reason I recommend three translations is if you're doing any serious study. You need to have a comparison of what it says in the English, and if you see a drastic difference, then go look and find out why.

I guarantee you. You'll be blessed. It's always the case. We have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 8772-07-2276.

Be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276.

Let's get to. Kent from North Carolina. Kent, welcome. You're on the air. Hey man, how are you doing, sir?

I'm alright, man. Hanging in there. What do you got, buddy? That's good news. No good buddy.

question I have today two questions. I heard you're talking about all of your About the translations of the Bibles. We different translations My question is, why have there so many different translations And why do they all have different They're all in some way are different in some kind of way. They it they were colleges. They teach nine days uh books.

Yeah, I can answer that. Sure. Um So netouche pas in French is not to touch. But we don't talk like that. We say don't touch.

In Spanish, if you say I'm hungry, you say yo tengo hambre. and your tango is I I have and hunger, hombre.

So you say I have hunger. And that's how you say, I'm hungry.

Now, if I were to translate, for example, a literal translation of the Spanish. Then, how would you literal translation be, I have hungry, or hunger, excuse me. If I want to be a little bit less uh literal, I would say, I have hunger. If I want to be a little bit less literal, but still retaining the same meaning, it'd say, I'm hungry. And so all of those are accurate.

But one of them is wooden, And the other, the final one, is not wooden, it's smooth, but they all convey the same information. But if you were to do a study and you want to know the original, it goes, I have hunger. Oh. They use I Separate. Yeah.

And they uh tengo, which is first person active, present, uh first person singular, present, active, indicative in the in the Spanish, uh from the verb tener, to to uh to have.

So you go, oh, so then you understand what's going on. This kind of thing exists in Greek, except even more so. Because Greek declines, nouns decline. And what that means is We have in English, we have actor, actors, actress, actresses. That's a declension.

of the nouns. The same noun takes different forms. In in English, we don't have, normally speaking, declin declining nouns, hardly ever. Boy, boys, girl, girls, table, tables. In Greek, the declension of a noun can take twenty-four different forms.

At least 24, depending on how deep you're getting into things. And so we have singular and plural declensions, and in the singular we have the masculine, the feminine, and the neuter. Of both singular and masculine, feminine, neuter of the plural. And then you have what's called case. Genitive, or it's going to be nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, and optative.

And so you have these cases. And so nouns take these different forms. The reason I'm saying all this is it's complicated. And so it relates to Greek words. And so because you can have a Greek verb, excuse me, a Greek verb that is talking about, say, something in the masculine, and you can have a declension of a word, like the word man anthropos, which is masculine singular.

Or instead of anthrepoi, which is masculine and plural, you can then know what verb is relating to what noun.

Well, then there's another issue. If the noun is related closely to the the verb, it carries a slightly different emphasis than if it was further away positionally.

So we could write in Greek ha agathos anthropos. That is literally the good man. But Agathos is the Omicron sigma ending, which is nominative masculine. Which means it's the subject. And it's a masculine form.

And so you could say, the good masculine one, man. But then you could also just say the good masculine one, and it translated as the good man. And the man would be in italics. But it's implied by the gender specificity of that declined noun. And so, that's why you'll have some translations, for example, that have a word in italics where others won't, because it depends on the literalness of what they're going and what the meaning is.

That's why you get different translations, okay?

Okay. And one other One of the fucking Um, what is the truth I used to say the truth network? But what is the truth? To you. Truth is what corresponds to the mind of God.

Okay, whatever God knows.

So God knows all things actual as potential. And so whenever we believe what God has revealed, we're believing truth. We don't know what truth is in the sense that God does because we are limited. We might believe that a certain phenomena we understand it truthfully, and it might be the case that we don't.

So a thousand years ago, for example, the majority of the world taught that The earth uh it's gonna be the sun revolved around the earth. To them that was truth. But we were you know they were wrong.

So the Earth orbits around the Sun because it's heliocentristic.

So okay.

So then we truth is what corresponds some would say, well that's what corresponds to reality. Truth is what corresponds to reality. That's called the correspondence theory of truth. But we Christians don't hold the correspondence theory, we hold to God's cognitive awareness position. what he reveals, because he knows all actualities.

And he will reveal truth to us.

So that's why Jesus says, I am the way, the truth. And the life, because whatever he says is always true.

Okay. Okay. And yep. The books I've read from, the translations I've read from, all of them have different Different understanding coming to the understanding now, but if you don't watch it, it can confuse you. And then also, books have been taken out.

No, books have not been taken out of the Bible, because they were never in to begin with.

Okay. Well, I disagree because you can order a file called the buying seafloor. And it gives you the actual name and also to it as, well, it's in books. Yeah, the Cefer is not true, and you're just believing lies.

Okay. Well, that's Okay.

So if you believe in the six to six foot comparison should be Eighty two bucks. Eighty seven books. Yes, because the deuterocanonical or apocryphal books were known by the Jews and rejected by the Jews. And in Romans 3:2, Paul the Apostle, who's an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, God in flesh, said that the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.

So they were entrusted with the oracles of God. I'm sorry. Those are agnostic Jews, those are false false Jews.

Well, Paul said that the Jews were entrusted with it.

So those Jews. They did not accept the apocryphal books.

Okay. That's a possibility. All right, so they're not to be included in the Bible, and the Catholic Church does, and the Eastern Orthodox Church does, with slight differentiation. And they're both false for that. It was not considered to be scripture, and the reason they add them is because they're more concerned and entrapped in tradition than.

listening to the word of God. You don't believe me to book it, you know? It's not inspired. No, it's not.

Okay. Okay. But there's over twenty bucks. There's 20 books. There's at least 20 books in the Bible that are referenced.

But it doesn't mean they're inspired. And there's three pagan philosophers that are referenced also by Paul. It doesn't mean they're inspired.

Okay? I think the Bible has been added and the translation, the translate. Truth to a lie. No. Can you translate Greek to to English or Hebrew to English?

It's all lies.

Okay, I didn't ask that. Can you translate? Because if you can say they're translated falsely, you have to be able to know that they're translated falsely by looking at the language. And I've had enough Greek to know that the the English Bibles that we have now are accurately translated. And when I was taking Hebrew, I knew I saw the same thing back in seminary.

I'm no good at Hebrew anymore. It was wasn't a problem, okay? You've been fed up. They teach a myth over the truth.

Okay. You have been f Fed lies.

Alright, the Cepher is a non-mainstream translation. It does not it's not recommended for serious biblical study. It includes a practical books. It's not peer reviewed. It's driven by an agenda.

Not by facts and history.

Okay, wouldn't the actual name of God and Lord in the Bible? Those are not names.

Well, we don't know how to pronounce it, but it's from the tetragrammaton, Yode Vavehe. YHWH or Yahweh.

So we just say Yahweh as the best understanding of how we can say it in English.

Okay. Do you know the name of the Lord? What it actually means by hell, which is Satan. No, it's not.

No, it's the downgraders. Look, let me tell you something. You have been, you're a great example. of someone who was thoroughly brainwashed by false doctrines. You are a good example.

I'm just telling you that you're an occult. We've talked before, you're an occult, and you don't know the truth because you haven't submitted your life to Christ. I need to do that so that the blinders will be lifted from you. Because Paul says in 2 Corinthians 4, 3, and 4: if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the God of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers. And that's you.

I'm sorry, but that's what it is. We gotta go, brother, okay?

So we'll talk to you later, man. Call back in our day. Hey folks, we got a break. Please stay tuned. Be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All Rodwood, welcome back to the show. Let's see, last segment of the hour. Just want to remind you that we stay on the air by your support.

Please consider supporting us and this entire ministry. All you've got to do is go to carm.org forward slash donate or just carm.org at the top of the page, you'll see the word donate up there. It's easy to do. We ask $5, $10, $15 a month, and it really does help. Let's get to Logan from Illinois.

Logan, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, what's going on? Oh, just doing this thing called radio, you know. Just hanging in there.

Yeah, I I uh I've all been I had a question about um Like the attributes of God. And you know how you use the. I'm a Trinitarian. And I was wondering. How like so God is love, right?

So creation cannot Creation.

So that shows the Trinity right there because can be loving himself.

So how does he show his justice and wrath? without creation being created. Justice is a subdivision of the holiness of God. And so the holiness of God is manifested in that inter Trinitarian eternal communion. But since justice deals with the completion or the breaking of the law, Then there was no situation before the creation of the world in which justice or mercy were meted out because there was no breaking of the law.

The Trinitarian communion couldn't do that.

So the expression of it occurs in the created order. But it's based upon the character of God and His holiness, just like love is based upon God's nature, and the sacrificial aspect of it is manifested in creation. Because that's just part of what love is, and we know that from scriptural revelation. But it's defined out of and a result of the greater overarching characteristic of God's nature, his love.

So love and sacrifice, excuse me, patience, sacrifice, goodness are under the love of God, where mercy and justice are under the holiness of God.

Okay. Oh, okay.

I got you. And uh, I did. I always have a bunch of questions, but I got one more. Sure. So.

I got a friend, he's a he's a oneness Pentecostal pastor, and he obviously they affirm, you know, baptism regeneration. And I've been deep in studying in all your all your studies of baptism and everything and They actually just posted something about how Um once saved, always saved is is nowhere taught in the Bible, which is False, but how So, baptism, they say it produces remission of sins. but you can still lose your salvation.

So it's because That's right. If they I don't know how to actually word it, but does that make any sense to you? Of course, yeah. I've had many, many, many discussions with oneness people. Oh, yeah, I know their positions.

Uh-huh.

So yeah, and and it's like yeah, he's I've talked to him before. And um He's obviously rejecting that, and he always thinks that you have to go to water basically to be saved. I was listening to your uh analogy on uh John the Baptist.

So if when they got the remission of sins, did they still have to give blood sacrifices? And then I brought up the people on the cross. And he's like, that was under the old covenant and all that. And I was like, no. Hebrews 9 and he's like, no, the fulfillment.

Was on the resurrection and stuff. I was like, why was the veil torn? What was the whole thing on the veil? And I haven't really heard a lot of that talked about the veil, but does that play a big part in the new covenant beginning? Yeah, the veil was the destruction between the holy and the holy places, because only the high priest could go into the holy of holies separated by the veil.

And when Christ was crucified, God destroyed that veil. Which is interesting because the Mormons put a veil back in th their temples, which just shows you how false they are. But at any rate, so th yes, it it works and it's supportive of the issue of no separation between God and man. And one this pastor could say, Well, yeah, we we agree with that. But what they're going to do is they're going to misunderstand Acts 2.38.

They're going to misunderstand 22.16, 1 Peter 3.21. They're going to misunderstand John 3.5. They're going to misunderstand a lot of these verses because they look at the scriptures through their false cult eyes. That you have to be baptized in water by immersion in Jesus' name, not in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but in Jesus' name in order to be saved. And that you can lose your salvation if you're not retaining the goodness of repentance.

So, what I ask them, a lot of times I just jump ahead and I say, okay, you can lose your salvation. Of course, you can't.

Well, what do you have to do to keep it? I said, I have my fingers on my keyboard. Give me a list of the things you've got to do. Give me the list. And I start applying the law to them.

And I've had them say, you know, well, you've got to be good, you've got to repent, you can't, you know, watch R-rated movies. I've had all kinds of answers given. They say, okay.

So. Are you doing this? And they'll say, Well, we're trying. Oh, so you're not doing it. And we go through this conversation.

But uh Yeah, uh and there's there's ways to defeat uh oneness. And There's some sophisticated ones I could get into also. But anyway. more sophisticated, which takes some education, they don't understand. But yeah.

Yes, yeah. And it's like every time you talk to them, no matter what you say, they're just In stone, they will not listen to you. Whenever you give them one scripture, and like you're talking about 1 Peter 3:20 through 21, about the antecedent going to the ark, and they're just like, No, it's the water, see this, this, and this, and they will not even listen to you. You know what I'm saying? That's right.

So, what I'll do because they're ready to handle those kinds of objections. But what I do is, I ask questions. I say, What was it that saved Noah? Was it the ark or was it the water? What did they enter into to deliver them?

It was the ark. I just ask them questions. And you know, they're going to be very difficult as they resist the truth. And um Uh So anyway As far as individual verses go, you can talk about that. But here's one of the things that I recommend: ask them to define what justification is.

Now, they're generally not prepared for this. I'm going to show you something else, too, that you can do out of John 6 that's very, very difficult for them. but ask them to define what justification is. And it's worthwhile discussion because it's a theological issue and is talked about in Romans 3:4, 5, Galatians 2, Philippians 3.

So the issue of justification is very important.

Now, what I'll do is take them to Romans 4:1 through 5 and show them that justification is the declaration of God by faith, of righteousness by faith. I'll show that to them. It takes a while, but most of them they'll agree. That's what it says. I'll see you.

What in verse 3 of Romans 4, what was it that was credited to Abraham as righteousness? is faith. Yes.

Is that what it says? Yes.

And Romans 4:5: To the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

So is faith credited as righteousness? And they have to say yes, because the text says so.

Sometimes they'll say, Well, yeah, when you're baptized, it is. I did. But That's not what God's Word says. You're changing it to make it fit your theology. And That's not to change the word of God.

Like that, because we know who the first one to do that was, and that was Eve. Eve was the first one to change God's word. And she fell. But it's me. It's not a work of the man, it's a work of God with the baptism and it's like I don't understand where they're coming with from that.

Well, they say it's a work of God. They say, was circumcision a work of God? Because it was commanded by God. Commanded by God is something to do for covenant, and what's a work of God, a work of man. They're going to say work of man.

And say, okay.

So the baptism is the work of God, right?

Okay. So so what's the difference between circumcision and and baptism, since both were commanded by God to be done? into both ceremonies. Why do you why do you differentiate? And say, so you're saying that we're saved by faith and a ceremony, but the Bible says we're justified by faith.

And that's the faith that God grants, Philippians 1:29, that's in Jesus, John 6:29.

So if that's the case. Then Are we justified by faith when we have faith? And that's the question you want to get to them. Get them to. Are we justified by faith when we have faith?

If they say yes, baptism is not necessary. If they say no, then we're not justified by faith when we have faith. Exactly. Here, let me show you another little something, okay, that's useful.

Now, in one that's Pentecostal, when Jesus is praying to the Father, in Luke 22:42. Not my will, but your will be done. I ask them to say Who is Jesus praying to? Oh, he's praying to himself.

Okay. So he's praying to himself? On earth? No, he's praying to himself in heaven. And So, are you saying the flesh was praying to the spirit in heaven?

Yes.

This is what they all come to, okay? They're great. Then I do this. Because what that is, that's called Nestorianism. In the body of Christ are two persons, a divine person and a human person.

We don't have time to get into it, why that's complete heresy. But I want to show you something. In John 6:37. I ask him this: I say, Could you answer some questions? We're trying to understand.

All that the Father gives me. Who's the me? And whether it's Jesus, yeah, is that the human nature or the divine nature? Because they believe in these two natures of Christ. Say well that's the human nature that gives me And will come to me.

That's the human nature, right? And everyone who comes to me, that's the human nature. I, the human nature, will not cast out. For I. The human nature came out from heaven.

Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait. How does that work? And you ask them, please tell me which nature is speaking, which nature is being addressed. If they say it's just the person of Christ.

That's speaking. Say, I would agree, it's just a person that's speaking. That's right. And is the person of Christ speaking to the person of the Father?

Now they're going to be stuck there.

Okay, so they'd say, I came down out of heaven. Is that a human nature, divine nature?

Well, that's divine nature.

So If they say, Well, divine nature came down out of heaven, not to do my own will. Wait a minute, what the divine nature. has a will didn't come to do his own will? The Mai is now the human? What are we talking about here?

And you can see if you go through Matth uh John six, thirty seven through forty, and you do this in your head, and then you apply this to them, ask them to do this, you'll see that the wheels come off their cart pretty quickly.

Okay. Yes.

Well, I really appreciate you answering my questions, and I'm a big fan.

Well, praise God, brother. That just shows that you're highly intelligent and humble.

Okay? There you go. Yep. Thank you so much. All right, brother.

You may God bless. Have good. Peach you very best. All right. Well, we've got about one minute left.

Let's see. The next longest waiting is John from North Carolina. John, we got one minute. What do you got, buddy? Are you there, John?

John's not here. John Are you there, John? We got about uh Make it about 45 seconds. Yeah.

Uh Or mostly. that talks about the relationship between Uh Joseph and Jesus. Yeah.

And Matthew. It shows Joseph to have a different father.

So can you explain that? Yeah, once of Mary, once of of Joseph, that's all. And they're complete different they're different complete different genealogies, yeah.

Okay. Right, I understand that, but they're referring to the same husband of Mary. Yes, and it says supposedly, and that's the key difference, is it appears to be that the genealogical necessity is given to show the authority that Mary had because she wasn't married at the time when all this occurred, and so they're tying it to the legitimacy of Joseph saying it's supposedly of Joseph, and that's why. And we're out of time, brother, okay? Call back.

Call back Monday, okay? All right, man. Hey, sorry, Charlie from North Carolina. I would love to talk about the charismatic gifts for today. Call back Monday.

We can do that. May the Lord bless you. Hey, everybody. Have a great weekend. May the Lord bless you all.

And by his grace, we're back on here on Monday. Have a great one. Another program powered by the Truth Network.