Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Mac is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking a call and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, and welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. As usual, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-20-72276. I want to hear from you, give me a call. And you can also send me an email.

That's easy to do. Info at carm.org, info at carm.org. Put in a subject line, radio comments, or radio questions, and we can get to them. All right, so I'm just doing a couple of quick things I got to do. And um Uh we don't have a you don't have anybody waiting right now.

Today's date is June 22nd, 2026, for the podcasters. And uh I'm just opening up stuff. What I'm doing is Is I open up the Rumble room. We have Rumble and it goes in there in the chat room and everything, it's live chat. You're welcome to join us if you want to do that.

Just go to rumble.com and just type in Matt Slick Live and you can get in there. Usually, there's 10, 15, 20, 30 people in there. It just depends on how it goes and our different topics that we have, and people are great in there, making friends in there too.

Alright, we have nobody waiting. No I'm not gonna show anyway, okay.

So Um For the past few days, I've basically not done much as far as ministry work goes because.

Well, I had just been doing a lot, and so I took a little bit of time off. And last night, I'm watching TV, and I just got a little bored with TV, so I thought I'd get on the on Discord a little bit, just a little bit, and an hour and a half later. Yeah. And it was really interesting because um I get into the conversations, and the same old stuff occurs. And I'm really debating whether I should continue doing it or not.

One of the things it does is help me understand theology. It helps me articulate theology on the fly. And there's advantages to that. But so often I've speaking to people who just don't They just don't believe the gospel. They just believe lies from the devil.

And talking to Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, and for the most part, polite conversations. You know, sometimes it gets a little bit difficult. One guy. This one guy comes on. He wanted a piece of me, right?

And um.

So that was fun because he gets he goes, Now this is how it's going to be. I'm going to say something, and then you can say something, but there'll be no interruptions, and then we're going to do this, and then that, and then this, and then that, and then this is how we're going to do it when we talk. And I said to him, Is it I don't accept that. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. He said, What do you mean you don't accept it? We would be rude to each other. I said, Look, you didn't ask me. You just come in and told me how it's going to be.

And Pain. Yeah. It was so funny because he says he wanted to use a Socratic method, which is asking questions. And uh And it is part of the thing he demanded. And so he said, Do you have any problem with me wanting to ask questions?

I said, Why would I have any problem with you asking questions? I started, I turned it on him, and He goes, well, I think it's the right thing to do. I said, well, why do you say that? And so, after half a minute, he kind of got on. And I said, look, dude, I said, I'm not going to play your game.

Because I'm not playing a game. What makes you think I'm playing a game? And I said to the moderator, I said, Can you get this guy out of here? And it was really kind of funny because he just came in making demands and how the conversation is going to be. And he didn't ask, hey, is it okay if we just do it this way?

He didn't ask. He just told. And I said to that to him, I said, Look, you don't come in here and make demands, how we're going to talk. Andy.

So anyway, it was fun.

So we got rid of him. And then we had some conversation with Eastern Orthodoxy for a little bit, a girl. She's really good. You know, she's an EO woman, and she had a great, great accent. I don't know where she's from, but it was a nice accent.

Like English, you know, England or Wales or something. I don't know. And uh she's polite enough, and I was asking her questions and showing her stuff. Um in the Bible. And one of the things we got at talking about I did this twice to her and then another guy came in later.

And they were talking about, of all things, how the Eucharist is. And their church, of course, their church is the true church. Their church has all the apostolic authority, which I went over with them, and they couldn't refute that. And their church, blah, blah, blah. I get so tired of it.

Our church is the true church. You know, you got to belong to our church, because it's a true church. I just wish they would just stop it. You know, just stop it, stop it. And uh I get so tired of it because they just regurgitate things they've been told.

So, anyway, back to the woman. She was nice, okay? And we've got talking about the Eucharist. If I remember correctly, I think we did talk about with her, because I talked to several people, so I'm hoping to get people mixed up. And so uh In verse 50 of John 6, it says: This is the bread that came down out of heaven.

So you may eat of it and not die. He says, He's the living bread. When he eats his bread, he'll live forever. And the bread which he gives for the word is his flesh. And I said, okay, so this proves that the Communion Supper, the bread, is actually Jesus' flesh?

And they said, oh, of course. He says it right there. I said, okay.

So he says, This is the bread came down out of heaven. You say the bread is his flesh? Yes, this flesh came down out of heaven. And just pause because they'd never been asked that before in the context. And they said, you know, I said, well, is it?

And one person tried to say, well, yes, in a way. I said, no, in a way. The the body of Christ was formed in the womb. He said, This is the bread which come down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. It's not his physical body he's talking about.

He says, He is the living bread came down out of heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. and the bread which I will give for the world is my flesh.

So he's talking here about what he's giving as bread. which is the flesh, but that's the Lord came not out of heaven.

So what's he talking about? He's talking about himself and the offering on the cross, and that to eat it is to receive it by faith. Because Jesus said in another place, he says, But my food is to do the will of the Father who sent me. And uh So we had this discussion, and because Jesus is not actually bread, it's a metaphor. And then they'll say the bread is his body.

And then we get into other logical problems with that.

So she wasn't really able to answer the questions. And a couple of areas she wasn't able to answer. And I'm not saying that she was dumb because she was not. But when sometimes you meet someone like myself who studies these things, has a bunch of answers and questions, it's almost not fair to talk to some people. But she wanted to talk to me.

And then some guy came in and said, Well, Matt, you're just talking to someone who doesn't know the faith very well. And I said, well, then why don't you come up and tackle it? And the same thing happened. He wasn't able to answer the difficult questions. And uh But for the most part, it was a polite conversation.

And, you know, this is the thing. It's something I've been wondering about lately. Um And I even wonder why I'm wondering about it. But There are people going to hell. But they don't want the word.

They don't believe the truth. They believe a church. And I've always been dumbfounded by that. Always. My church is the true church.

You have to belong to the true church. to be saved. We have the truth, our church. And As someone who just grow up loving Jesus. You know, growing up, I mean, 17 is when I got saved, but but uh Just loving the Lord.

It's about him. It's about fellowship with him. It never says in the Bible you have to belong to the right church and the right church will give you the truth and it's a sacramental system and you had to have a priest and your church. All this stuff to me is just stupidity. It is so stupid.

And people believe it. They just they just swallow it, hook, line and sinker. They just swallow it. Yeah, our church is a true church. Oh, the Catholic Church is the true Church.

Eastern Orthodox is the true church. And I meet these people. Do you not read the Bible?

Well, Jesus gave us the church. And the church gave us the Bible. You know, it just. You know, I said to one person last night, I said, You ever heard that Says, you know, like, don't drink and drive, you'll hurt yourself. I'm saying, I said, don't do that, you know.

I said, don't be a decent orthodox, you'll hurt yourself. And uh I just get so irked. and annoyed by the sheer stupidity and spiritual blindness, of so many people.

Now I'm not saying I'm smart. I'm not saying I'm better. I can say this, the Lord granted that I have that faith, Philippians one twenty nine. He granted that I come to Christ, John six sixty five. Yeah.

And this is another thing that reminds me one of the gentlemen who got on who's polite enough. And he said that prevenient grace is what enables you to believe in God. And I've always called prevenient grace kindergarten theology. It's not very deep, it's not very effective, it doesn't work. Prevenient grace is the grace that God gives to you.

In order to make you neutral so you can believe or receive up to your free will. And to me, this is arrogance. God's going to give you A measure of his gracious work on you to bring you to the place. Where you will then be able to decide what you want to do because it's up to you. It's up to you.

God's just going to help you out a little bit with the revenue grace that brings you back to a kind of place where you can just on your own decide. And I said, So where's travening grace in the Bible? And the guy couldn't find it. He quoted some verse that had nothing to do with it. I mean, seriously, I said, that's nothing about prevenient grace, it's not there.

And he didn't defend it. He goes, he tried something else. Because it's just not there in the Bible. And I said, look, I can refute prevenient grace in one verse. Very easily.

He said, No, you can't say, Yeah, I can They said, Go to John six sixty five. Where it says, You cannot come to me unless it has been granted to you from the Father. You cannot come to me unless It has been granted from the Father. That's what it says.

Now that's a perfect passive participle, has been granted. Perfect tense means have, you know, have been. and the plu perfect as I had been.

So I have been is perfect, okay. Perfect tense. Passive voice means you receive the action.

So it has been granted to you.

Okay, you receive it. It's a past action. And its continuing effect is now that's perfect tense. Yeah. And so You learn this when you study Greek.

It has been granted.

So you cannot even come to Christ unless it's been granted by the Father. The granting is the thing He does to allow you to make a choice. And I kept saying this one guy, why do you keep changing God's word? Because I'd quote a verse, I'd reference a verse, and he would do this constantly. He would just redo the verse as an interpretation of what he said it really meant.

And I kept saying to him, You keep changing God's Word. To make it fit your theology. And if you have to do that, that means your theology is just not in the Bible. And I said, you need to stop changing God's word. And I called him on it like five or six, seven times.

Why are you doing this? It went to Philippians 1.29. You know, to you, it has been granted to believe. And he goes, God grants you the opportunity. It does not say that.

So many people Are just so willing to alter God's word to make it fit what they want. It happens in Catholicism, it happens in East Orthodoxy, and it happens in Protestantism. It does. People want the word of God to say what they want it to say.

So if Jesus says, you can't come to me unless it's granted or has been granted to you from the Father. Then prevenient grace is gone. Prevenient grace is the grace God gives you to get you to that neutral kind of place, to help you decide so you can make a choice. That's refuted by John 60. You can't.

unless it has been granted. You can't. Well, he grants you the bravenient grace. Does it say he grants you bravenic grace? People just don't want to believe the Word of God.

There's the music for the break. If you want to give me a call, it's easy. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is so easy: 87720-722-76. Christopher from North Carolina, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey Mayor, how's it going today? Oh, it's going. Nice Monday. Relaxing well, not really relaxing. A little bit of relaxing.

Likely Very relatable. Praise God.

So, um Yeah, my question and you know, sorry if I like ramble on my question. But so in light of um people getting exposed like heavily recently in the body of Christ. like Mike Wiener did a video on that guy, Sean Bolt. My question is. Wait, Sean Holtz.

I know what Jesus talks about. Wait, wait, wait, Sean Holmes. Sean Holt. Balls, okay.

Okay, sorry, go ahead.

Okay. No, it's okay, no worries. Um Yeah, Sean Bowles. Not sure if you know what I'm referring to, but this guy, he was part of Bethel, and he was taking, it was like he was a. not was, but or not like, but he was, is a a f like My question is this.

Um When it comes to salvation for people like that, do you like. What does the word say about that. Like this guy comes in proclaiming that Jesus is Lord, you know, the whole foundational like Christianity, what makes Christians Christians believe, you know, Jesus Son of God, Trinity, and you know, all that, right? Yeah. But then he had very crazy um behavior like um uh taking advantage of people sexually, obviously, financially, like giving calls in sheep clothing.

Um Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, again, sorry about the rambling. I'm trying to put that like what. What do you think the word says about those people? Is their salvation no good because of their actions here? Um, are they saved because they proclaim Jesus as Lord?

You know, so that I was just trying to like figure out, like, hmm, I wonder what Matt Slick thinks about this. Yeah. They're prophesied in the Bible. In Matthew 24, Jesus talks about false prophets, false Christ will rise and deceive many. It's talked about in the Bible of one of the things you kind of reference there without realizing it is Matthew 6:22 and 23.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, do we not prophesy in your name? Perform many miracles, you know, it's prophesy in your name, you know, and get away from me. I never knew you.

So uh There are those who profess faith and they use the faith for their own ungodly. Desires and needs. And Romans 1:18 talks about suppressing the truth of God in their unrighteousness.

So the Bible talks about this. There are false teachers secretly introducing destructive heresies. 2 Peter 2.1 talks about this. In Jude, it talks about varying kinds of false teachers. These men revile the things which they do not understand, the things which they know by instinct like unreasoning animals.

By these they are destroyed. Woe to them. They have gone the way of Cain. They have rushed headlong into the era Balaam.

So there are lots of stuff in Scripture about this, and their condemnation. is is going to be severe. On a side note, The As I deal with it as I said before the break. It's hard to describe. It's either the case you believe the Word of God or you don't.

The regenerate believe the Word of God, the non-regenerate don't. And so we have the non-regenerate who can profess certain things, but they were never believers to begin with. And they're not believing the Word of God. And in my opinion, more and more and more as I grow older and I study, it comes down to what does God say in the Word? You have to believe it.

And the people in churches should know the Word of God well enough to be able to recognize a false prophet, a wolf in chief clothing. They should be able to do it quickly. And too many people in church are just woefully ignorant of biblical theology, woefully ignorant of soteriology, hemartiology, of various things. They just don't know. And they don't care.

They want sensationalism. And so when someone comes in with a prophecy of this or that, they feel good. And this is part of the problem. I can go on and on about it, but yeah, it's, you know. I did have another quick question.

It's kind of like a Kind of the same thing. Um.

So Jesus talks about, you know, if you don't do this, you're not worthy to be called my disciple. you know, X, Y, Z, right? You How can I ask this question? If someone has salvation, Does that Equal to them being a disciple. And the reason I ask that is because there's times where we see people who do believe in Jesus who are giving.

You know, giving their all, like their heart, you know, not saying, Uh Salvation might work. But it's like, hey, I'm saved, Jesus is my Lord. But they continue to do like sin. And You know, they're not following like the ways of tries, but it's like, hey, I So does that make sense to my point I don't know? Yeah, I I encounter that a lot and over the years.

With a lot of people, but 1 John 2:4 says, If you say you know him and do not keep his commandments, the truth is not in you, and you're a liar. There are people who. Who don't know the truth and don't believe the truth. They are more in tune with their own personal experiences and desires and see a way of manipulating people and/or getting what they want from God. They're not humble before God, have not been granted that salvific work.

And so, this is what we see as occurring, and it occurs in Christian churches as well as false churches like. Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy. uh Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphianism, etcetera. Yep. Mm-hmm.

And Protestants.

Okay. Yeah, I was just like curious to see what your thought was, 'cause I w I I was like, oh, I wonder if like How this correlates with salvation, what Jesus says: like, are all disciples saved, or are there some people who are saved who are not disciples? Yeah, now salvation and discipleship are different, but they're related. Salvation is being saved from the righteous judgment of God by the grace of God. He's the righteous judge.

We're saved from that judgment. That's the what. The who is we're saved from God in the sense of him being the righteous judge. But we're also saved from the terrible things in this world and the evil one and things like that. But discipleship is an active process where the believer seeks to emulate Christ and learn of Christ.

And you can have different degrees of that seeking. And Uh And it can manifest in different ways at different times.

So, some might have very little discipleship necessity in their hearts with God. and some others might have a great deal of need for that. Where all are supposed to be disciples. And we can get into this quite a bit because there's varying levels and degrees and. and situations of different people.

Hmm. Hmm. All right, cool. Just wanted to see what your Your thoughts were in the insights, well, not re necessarily thoughts, but your insights on scripture. Um but yeah.

I appreciate it. All right, but God bless. All right, Matt. God bless you. You have wonderful days.

You too, man. Thanks.

Okay. And that reminds me, have a blessed day. Did you? I hope your fathers out there had a good Father's Day. Uh yesterday.

We are You know, happy Father's Day. Yeah. And there's the music. Good timing. Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 8772-072276.

We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show. Just want to say thanks for listening, and just to remind you that we stay on the air by your support.

Please consider supporting us. It's easy to do. Just go to carm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, the top of the page. You'll find the word donate. It is easy, put a lot of work into making it easy and simple.

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Now, You know, so this issue here of why people are not believing the truth. I can only assume. I'm going to ramble. I think I'm going to ramble a little bit. You know, in Acts 16:14.

It says this A woman named Lydia, from the city of Phyatira, A seller of purple fabrics, a worshipper of God, was listening, and the Lord opened her heart. to respond to the things spoken of by Paul. The Lord opened her heart.

Alright, and then also, I think it's uh Yes.

So this is Luke 24, 44 and 45. This is after the resurrection of Christ. And Jesus said He said to them, These are my words which I have spoken to you while I was still with you, that all things which were written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled. And He opened their minds to understand the Scripture.

Now, these two verses of Luke 24, 45 and Acts 16:14. have kind of bounced around in my my mind, you know. way a ping-pong ball might do in a In a dryer, you know, because every now and then it just comes up, and I'm going, you know. I'm thinking. And Now to be honest, I'm a little uncomfortable.

Just a bit. on what this means. Because I like the idea, on one hand, I like the idea. that people can discern truth from God's Word. And on the other hand, it seems to be you can't unless God grants it to you.

Yeah. And if that's the case, just like you can't even believe unless God grants it to you, you can't even come to Christ unless God grants it to you. You know what this tells me? Sin is worse than I thought. Ether tells me.

Sin is worse than I thought it was. Yeah. Because everybody is a sinner. Romans 3:23. We are all by nature children of wrath.

Ephesians 2:3. We are sinners by nature. And I think we're so comfortable with sin. In our ourselves, our hearts, our minds. That we judge ourselves, eh?

We're not that bad. I'm not that bad. I know others are worse, and maybe some are better, but you know. And I just I just think that uh We don't get it how bad sin is. It's so bad.

It is so bad. That it cost Jesus his life, it cost God coming down to be one of us. That's how bad it is. And it's so bad. We can't even believe the Word of God unless God grants it to us.

We can't even believe in Him unless God grants it to us. We can't even come to Christ unless God grants it to us. That's how bad it is. And you know what gets me? Is a reminisce of preachers I've heard and things I see and hear on the internet.

and the arrogant fools You say, well, talk to me. And my wisdom, my ability to believe in Jesus, It's just not. the case. We are saved because God in His mercy has saved us.

Now, what I don't like that this leads to is: well, why doesn't God save more? And I don't have an answer for that. I don't. As my friend Bill McKeever says, He says we're in sales, not production. And my job is to preach the word of truth and ask that God open the hearts and the minds of people, like He did in Luke 24:45, to believe the truth.

And as God did to Lydia in Acts 16:14. to believe the scriptures. Isn't that interesting? We have to have our minds and our hearts open just to even believe God's Word. And We can't even come to Christ.

Unless God grants it to us. We can't even believe unless God grants it to us. Wow. And even the faith that we have is the work of God. John 6:28, 29.

What must we do to work the works of God? And Jesus says, This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent. As I grow in my theology, grow in my relationship with Christ. I I'm bewildered a little bit more and more. about my understanding, my lack of understanding of God's word in some areas.

And I've been studying a long time but It's like it's dawning on me. Man. Sin is worse than I thought it was. It is horrible. It is bad.

It is cancerous. It is a stench. And we have become so familiar with the stink of our own sin, we can't even smell it anymore. We can't even see it anymore. We're so used to it, just like something in your house.

It's always there. to the point where you don't even notice it's there anymore. We get so comfortable walking around our homes. That where is that object? You don't even know where it is because you just see it all the time.

You don't even care about it all the time. We're so familiar with our sin. We don't even see it. That's one of the reasons I like Reformed theology. Because it really does show the difference between God and myself.

God is holy, you are not. God is God, you are not. You have to come to him by his grace. Not by your wisdom. And this kind of stuff is just It's just It just grates on people.

And a wish I wish I was, you know, be able to preach. I could teach people about this, just do a series on this: the greatness of God. the depravity of man. and go through And talk about what grace really is. Grace is the unmerited favor.

And that's another thing. I talk to these Catholics and these Eastern Orthodox. Oh, I'm just sickened, sick and sickened by what they say.

Well, God gives grace. You see, grace is infused into you when you do the sacraments. Grace is something that you get while you do a ceremony. I say what? Grace is like what?

It's like a color you put into water and it's infused in. What that grace is a thing, like a substance transferred to you, that it enables you to do so? Is it magic? Yeah. Man.

And they don't even hear what they're saying. Because they're stinking. apostate churches have got them brainwashed. and they just walk around with with the cult mind. Yeah, whatever the church says is true.

Whatever the prophet said is true, whatever the true organization says is true, whatever the apostolic church says is true. And I I want to sit to all of them and say, but uh excuse me, have you Like, looked at the Bible? See what it says? Do you agree with scripture? You know, oh no, we've got to be saved by grace and our works.

And I read them, you know, Romans 4:5. The one who does not work but believes is Paul negating works. When he says, does not work but believe. No, he's not negating works. The Refuse to believe the word of God so clearly.

And as as I encounter this more and more, I'm thinking, Reprobate? That means those destined to hell, they can't see. I don't know. I'm not trying to judge them. I'm just asking the question, is this why?

They refuse to believe the clear teaching of God's word. And then, that's another thing. Oh, you can't understand God's word unless our church, our apostolate, our authority, whatever it is. tells you what it really means. And I ask people, how do you know what the you know, these These authorities over you are telling you the truth.

Well, because they're from God. How do you know? I ask these questions. That's why I don't believe in church history. I don't believe in church authority.

I don't believe in church councils. I believe in the Word of God. All those other things. Those are just decorations in history. Decorations.

What is the substance? It's the person of Jesus. found in the Word of God. I'm not interested in the decorations. And people like to have.

that make themselves feel good. about what they're looking at. the decorations of their church Polity, their sacraments, their priesthood, their authority, their councils, their traditions, etc., decorations. to make the stench of their false churches and false doctrines. Appear a little bit better, maybe even smell a little better.

They're so immune. to the truth. That they can't even believe it. This is why God has to open your heart and your mind to believe the Word of God. He's got to grant that you come to Christ.

That's how bad sin is. We're so comfortable in it.

So many people. I remember before I was a Christian, how comfortable I was in the occult. Doing seances is comfortable. Because I did not have the mind of Christ. I had not died.

to myself. Hadn't. Oh, I was believing what I felt was good. And that's the tragedy. of the human condition.

We read back after these messages. Please stay tuned for it. Give me a call 8772. 072276. Be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. Let's get to Carrie from Boise, Idaho.

Hey, Carrie, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. How are you? Good.

I think it's the carrier I've met before, right? Yep, sure is. Hey, I have a question. I was speaking with someone recently and I made Reference to remnant Christians and Apparently, the person I was talking to didn't like that because they gave me a book to read about dispensationalism. And so it's kind of gotten me interested in that subject.

What is dispensationalism? what refutes it? What is the correct Um view. Can you Sure, dispensationalism is a biblical system, or a system of biblical interpretation, I should say. It's not a biblical system, but a system imposed upon Scripture.

That divides history into varying periods, that God works a little bit differently in the varying periods.

So generally, dispensationalism has seven dispensations. innocence, conscience, human government, promise, law, grace, kingdom.

So in other words, Adam and Eve were in the age of innocence. And then the the kingdom it will be in the future. Generally they're premillennial also. We're in the time of grace right now. And before the atonement of Christ was in the period of law.

So God works differently according to history.

So that's generally what dispensationalism is. Generally, they will teach a literal thousand-year reign of Christ. And um It was founded by a guy named Darby in the United A in the late 1800s.

Okay. So I I reject uh that system. Because God worked covenantally. The word covenant in Latin is co is testamentum. Old Testament, New Testament.

The reason God works covenantally is because it's based on his word. He binds himself by what he says, he makes covenants, and this is how he works. He's always worked the same way with people. By grace that's mediated through Christ.

Now, in the Old Testament, it was a pre-incarnate Christ. And in the New Testament, it's the post-incarnate Christ. The mediation of God's grace to us is not by a dispensational methodology, it is by the work of God, through His Word and through the person of Christ. And so Reformed theologians will just, and I do too, I just flatly reject dispensationalism. That's not to say there aren't good people there, that's not to say there aren't good, godly people who hold to it and have their reasons for holding to it, I just reject it.

I would be willing to debate it, a nice polite debate, because it's an in-house debate. It's not something that would divide us. But if some if someone just says dispensationalism is true, me, I would just say in my mind, under my breath, it's no, it's not. I don't believe that. I'm not going to say anything.

It's not a big deal. I've met people who are dispensationalists, they'll say certain things, or they'll assume that the thousand-year reign of Christ is coming, and they'll assume pre-eblation rapture and all this kind of stuff. And I don't try and correct them or offer them something different, whatever. Yeah, it's okay.

So um Covenant theology basically sees the church as a continuation of Israel. not a parenthesis of history. And so Christ is not done with Israel yet because he says so in Luke, excuse me, in Romans 11:25 and 26. When the time of the Gentiles has ended.

So, anyway, not only are there seven dispensations, some groups have three and some five. But uh they see it things uh differently and um And then they talked about remnant, okay, which you mentioned. That's the Jewish remnant during the tribulation period. Generally, they're pre-tribulation rapture. And then during the tribulation period, when the church is taken out, then the remnant of Israel will be granted that work of God again.

And then at the completion of that, Christ returns. It's full of holes. I mean. I've studied the. It's so full of holes.

It is so full of holes.

Okay. And so. Thank you. This is. This is a whole new can of worms for me.

I've never dived into this before. Go to my website and look up dispensationalism. And there are websites out there that you can just do a search, compare dispensationalism and covenant theology. In fact, I get into some stuff, but you could go to Carmen, you could look it up. And but I also say, to be fair, find a book or something that supports dispensationalism and see what their arguments are.

and get it from someone who knows it. And see what you think, and compare it to another book on covenant theology, and see which one you think really is holding the scripture better. And, you know, make up your own mind. And either one.

Okay, thank you. Either one's okay as far as Christianity goes. Doesn't mean you're not saved if you hold either one, okay?

Okay. Thank you, Matt. All right.

Well, God bless.

Okay. Bye bye. Bye. All right, we have nobody waiting right now. If you want to join me, you can 877-207-2276.

And Back to this issue of people not believing the Word of God, there's lots of things to talk about. But here's something that I have been saying off and on for years and years and years. And maybe it's just me. Maybe it it's just me I'm too uppity. Too judgmental.

I go into a church. It could be. And it's certainly possible. Maybe someone could tell me, you know, yeah, man, you're doing too judgmental. I just find a lot of pastors don't Teach very deeply.

Now I'm not saying they have to be able to articulate the communicatio idiomatum from justification, imputation, and work of the propitiatory sacrifice all in one breath. But I just I I just I can't help but wonder If pastors are just speaking down to not down in a derogatory manner, but speaking down at a level that they're not helping them grow. I just wonder. I'm just asking questions about that. I don't know.

Because You know, I'm unusual, and I study a lot, debate a lot, teach a lot, and been doing this for.

Well, 46 years.

So, you know, okay. And Okay. I remember when I was in Southern California and I was doing pulpit supplies, preaching in different churches, and I would teach occasionally, I'd teach some doctrine, throw some deep stuff into the sermons, and people would say, Thank you, we love that. And I just don't hear it from sermons.

So I go to a church, and the pastor will go through verse by verse, which is good. And praise God. They're not all pastors, not all verses lend themselves to deeper things.

Sometimes it's just a surface thing. That's fine, it's fine. But I don't know. I don't know. What do you guys think out there in radio land?

Do you think your pastors are really teaching you good stuff? Or are they kind of babysitting? Or are they. Yeah. Speaking to what is a perceived low-level average intelligence, average spiritual level, knowledge level, what?

It could be all kinds of reasons. Maybe some pastors have had all kinds of people come up to them and just say, I don't understand this or that. And they just bring it down to a lower level to teach for them. And that's fine. And I'm always wondering about this.

Because I The pastors are the ones who are supposed to teach the people and equip them for the work of ministry. And I have said this so many times over the radio. Are they doing it? Would I be doing it if I was a pastor? I'm not pointing fingers.

I'm not. I'm just asking questions because I'm frustrated. You know, I've gone to different churches here in the in the called the Treasure Valley area of Idaho. And um A lot of good pastors out there.

Some are a little uppery.

Some are hyper-dispensational.

Some are anti-Calvinist.

Some are anti-Charismatic.

Some are staunch. You have to be a preacher of rapture. You know, okay, whatever. Um I've had Yeah. I've gone to some churches where where uh You gotta fit in the group.

The church knows stuff. And well, you gotta fit in that group. You gotta fit in the group. You know what? I just a thought came into my mind.

There's only one church I've ever been to. here in all of Idaho. where when I went They I I just felt warmed. and welcomed. and actually cared about.

genuinely. And it was at a Reformed church, believe it or not. which has kind of surprised me. But uh That's what I remember only once. I've gone to so many churches and just sat there after the church service ends.

No one says hi. And when I went to this one church, I want to go back. Even though they sing hymns, I'm not a hymn guy. I could just. Just deal with it, I guess.

A little bit late, something to listen to. I don't like hymns, they bore me.

Sorry, I've just made a lot of people mad, but they don't do it for me. Hymns just don't do it for me. But if you like them, that's okay.

Okay. All right, let's get to Clinton from Virginia. Clinton. Welcome, you're on the air. Yes, young man.

Um I was doing some bills and you were talking about Pastors, that's right on my subject, because I've said that for years. I've gone to different churches. And you just sit there and it's like they just go through like protocol. There's nothing to wake you up. You don't feel like nothing.

It's like They're reading a newspaper and while looking for a job, that's it.

So. They're just so dead. You just said it. It's like reading a newspaper. I never thought of it that way.

I've said it for years and people look at me and go, What? I mean, I was going to Baptist.

Now, you go to Southern Baptists. I mean, they get up there, they start dancing in the aisles, and that kind of rivals you a little bit. It kind of gets you going. Yeah. But.

But yeah, it's like reading a newspaper to me. I had a problem with my church before and I left. And I came back like three years later and he goes, Why are you back? I said the reason I left is because There's more sin in church than any of that on the street. I said, I come to church.

I do what I'm told to do. And then when you go get baptized, they throw it out of the water. They come up, they leave the old behind, and now they got a new person. I said, in Kim, they sit around and talk about what they do to their kids and they start cussing.

So where is it that you're new again? You're still dragging the old along. I'm like, you mad is I mean, churches, no wonder people don't go to church. I don't know. Well, you know, I think you just delighted me.

You said that to read the Bible, I have to read in the newspaper. And that is right. Man. There's no other way to put it. And I've told people that.

They're going like So, when you said that I said, I got a call, Matt. I don't care. There's two minutes left. You're right. There's something in it, it doesn't click.

And you go right. Why am I even here? You know, the deacons drag around and oh man. You go to Sunday school, Matt, and the pastors read it. Um Yeah.

And you ask, and everybody goes, uh-huh, yeah, yeah, uh-huh. But you ask them what the passages read, they don't know. That's right. I'm glad you got on that subject. I mean, you fired me up then, boy, and I said, you know what?

I'm with you, but that's about the satisfaction. Good for you, man. You got me going, too. I love that phrase, though, reading the Bible like it's a newspaper. That's right.

I was thinking, yeah, but when now they got an opaque, they sit there reading off of an opaque, and I'm going, I just hate a pastor to sit there and go. Yes, anatomy came over. Put some gusto in it. There you go. About the Bible.

Put some, hey, you know what? Look, brother, look. We're out of time. I want you to call back tomorrow because, man, I want to talk to you about it. Put some passion into it.

I'm with you. But we're out of time. The music's going to start. But you said they didn't understand each other. Brother, brother, we gotta go.

Okay, you call tomorrow. We've got to talk about it because, yeah, we're birds of a feather. All right, brother. That's right, reading the Bible like reading a newspaper. We don't want that, do we?

No, we don't. I don't. At any rate, I love that. By God's grace, you'll back on here tomorrow. We'll talk to you then.

Have a great evening, everyone. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.