Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and your list of Matt Slick Live. Hope you're going to have a good time listening today. And if you want, you can give me a call as usual. We have wide open lines, 877-207.

Yeah. Seven six. And I want to hear from you, give me a call. And you can also email me at info at carm.org, info at carm.org. You can put the subject line video comment or radio question and we can get to you.

We have nobody waiting right now.

So let me just tell you what happened last night on TikTok. Actually, I went into a couple places. I'll tell you TikTok in one second. I went into on my MetaQuest 3, I went into the virtual world, I guess you could say. I went into a place called Big Screen, and I'd go in there.

People are surprised when When they see me in there. But. And so I had a discussion with a couple of atheists and um It's really an incredible example of incredible blindness. As I was talking to them and asking questions and answering questions, and I was really caught off guard to some degree by the complete inability to understand basic English. They were so blinded that they couldn't even think straight.

And it's not me just being mean, it is really amazing. For example, A lot of conversations were going on, and I talked about Hebrews 1:8 because in this room, actually, they weren't atheists. Let me retract that. It were not atheists, they were theists who denied the deity of Christ, but they behaved like atheists. And so I would give them verses and they would just, you know, basically ignore them.

or explain them away. And go to different places in the text of the Bible and then import a meeting from here over there. They just played hobscotch theology, is what they did. And I went to Hebrews 1:8, and it was really interesting to see how when it says, Of the Son he says, Thy throne, O God, they would go to the Old Testament, Psalm 45, verse 6, and say that it was about David. The context is about David.

They say, That's what it's about, David. And I said, But the writer of Hebrews says, But of the Son, talking about Jesus, he says.

So he's saying it's about Jesus. And they wouldn't accept it. They would not accept it. It's just blatantly obvious. Here's another one.

I said, the phrase, the phrase, calling upon the name of the Lord. In Hebrew, it's called upon the name of Yahweh. And I said that phrase, the phrase, not just the word called, not just the word name, not just the word Yahweh. It's always in reference to Yahweh. And they said cautiously, because they know who I am, and they don't trust me because my last name is Slick.

And uh they said, Yeah. I said okay, now when the Greek uh was uh Septuagint was developed by the Jews. They translated the phrase, call upon the name of Yahweh, into the Greek, call upon the name of the Lord. And I said that phrase is applied by Paul to Jesus in 1 Corinthians 1:2. It says, everyone, everywhere who calls upon the name of the Lord, Jesus.

And I said, why would Paul Apply this phrase only of God. Yahweh to Jesus himself. And it was fascinating to hear this one guy just say the word Lord doesn't mean. I said, look, dude, I said, the phrase. I said this repeatedly.

The phrase, call upon the name of Yahweh, not the word Lord, not the word Yahweh, not the word name, the phrase. And it took like five times before he could understand that I was talking about. The phrase. He could not get it. And even after I had him repeat it back to me, I said, Steel man, my argument.

He did. He then went on to go back to the same error with the word Lord. It was really interesting to see this incredible blindness. And then it just got to be a brouhaha as two of these guys jumped on me at the same time and just dog pile. I just had to leave.

And so, this is how it goes a lot. And I opened up another room in Blink Screen, and some guy immediately came in and he said, Man, he goes, dude, those guys were horrible. I said, Yeah, I know. I know, they were they were really bad. He says, They they're just full of lies I says, Yeah.

So that was interesting, but nevertheless. Afterwards, I went on TikTok about a half hour after that. Went on to TikTok, opened up a room. It was on for about an hour and fifty minutes. And um We had a really good conversation with a Roman Catholic.

Now, I mean good conversation, not like I beat him up. No, no, no. A good conversation. He was polite. I was polite, which is a good back and forth.

And I really enjoyed talking to him. We didn't agree, but we disagreed. politely. And he was intelligent, he was competent, and we got into the issue of baptism. Is baptism necessary for salvation or normatively necessary.

And uh the answer of course is is no.

Now, there was another aspect of this I'm trying to remember because I used the baptism issue. And uh I'm trying to remember what it was.

Now I'm looking back on it. It was that. It was. Second. But one of the points I bring up about the issue of baptism is: I was in a debate a couple of weeks ago with an Eastern Orthodox guy.

And in my opinion, he He didn't carry his position very well. But the position then was baptism is normally necessary for salvation.

So I said, okay, so it's necessary for salvation except when it's not necessary for salvation. In other words, it saves when it makes up when it doesn't save. And the idea here Is that if something is, if there's an exception between the two, what is it? It's faith. I mean, you're saved by faith.

Before baptism, you're saved by faith after baptism, because baptism, excuse me, faith is the common denominator between the idea of getting baptized and not baptized. In other words, the thief on the cross was saved, even though there's no record of baptism, and it was his faith in Christ.

So I said the instrumental cause of his salvation is not baptism, but faith. This is the illustration I used of this guy last night. We're talking about the issue of salvation. normally through works. through the sacraments and the works.

And uh I'm trying to remember. Exactly what he said. I'm not trying to misrepresent him. But it was along this line. And I said, okay, so normatively speaking, then you have to do good works.

It's a manifestation of your faith, right? To be saved. He said, that's correct. Because you can be in and out of justification.

So that we got into the issue of justification. And I said, So you're justified by faith? or you justified by faith when you get baptized. And this was the trap I set for him. And I told him, I'm going to trap you.

He goes, okay, go ahead. And I said, so Then we have baptism as a means of justification, yes. And people can be justified without being baptized, yes. Then, what's the common denominator between them? Faith.

Faith is what justifies us. Not baptism. Because the baptism justified us. Then it's the instrument that's not including faith. It's not faith that justifies us.

So which is it? And he goes, You know, I've got to think about that, which I thought was fair. He didn't think about that. We went into our conversation some more. And Um We talked about the issue of of the instrumental cause of of our justification.

Which is salvation.

Now he was mixing justification and sanctification, saying that justification is a process you go through for your whole life. That's basically, he was defining it as sanctification in order to be right with God, and that you could lose your justification. Yeah. We went to variant verses of Hebrews 6, 3, Hebrews 6, 4 through 6, and Hebrews 10.27. Which, you know, Hebrews 10:26, actually.

And so I've gone, I went through, I won't go into them right now, but we went into these verses talking about the issue. And I said, look, I'm going to show you something. And we got to the verse of Colossians 2:14, and he surprisingly admitted. that that verse was a very good verse for my position. And um It really spoke against his position.

He was objective about this, and he said it, and I had a lot of respect for him.

Okay, I said, if you believe Colossians 2:14 for what it says, you can't believe Catholicism.

Okay. Colossians 2.14 says, having canceled out the certificate of debt. consisting of decrees, which was saltful to us, he took it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

So Jesus took the certificate of debt. I said, What is that? and he said, The sin debt. And I said, I agree. He's taken out of the way at the cross.

And he said Yeah. And I said, so if it's removed and canceled at the cross, is it again removed and cancelled when you get baptized? And that's when he started going, Okay. Yeah, I see what you're saying. And I said, look, here's the thing.

If Jesus canceled the sin dead at the cross. It's not canceled when you believe. And he said, like Protestants do. And I said, this is a Protestant argument you're giving me. They're minions, that you have to believe it to apply it to yourself.

And I just said, no. It's finished at the cross. It's not Applied When you believe, what's applied when you believe is the righteousness of God. Philippians 3:9, we're justified by faith. We have a righteousness that's not our own righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith, Philippians 3:9.

So it's a righteousness that's going to break into our account. That happens upon belief, the belief that God grants. Philippians 1.29.

So I said, You see? You see this? And I said, if he canceled that sin then at the cross, it cannot be the case that he canceled it again at baptism, can it? And at that point, He uh he admitted that it was a good argument and that he didn't study it. And I said, that's fine.

So I don't have any problem with people just saying, I see your point, I need to study it. I have no problem with that at all. It's like me with sometimes the pre-males will come and ask me a verse, and I'll say, you know, I'm not exactly sure how to respond to that. Premillennialists, you know, to look at it in context. And that's fine.

We don't all have answers all the time to everything. But we need to study. And I said, look, if you believe what this says. that he cantiled ascended at the cross, Then that's who it's canceled for, and it's canceled for his people. And I went through and showed him about election and predestination, which is right there in Scripture.

I know a lot of people listening don't like electric and predestination. If you don't, What you can do is you can call me up. And you can say you don't like election and predestination, I'll tell you where to go to in the Bible. We can cross those verses out. You can just get rid of them.

If you don't like it. Just remove from the Word of God the teaching on election and predestination. If you don't like it. And you can just cross them out. I'll help you.

And so that way the Bible can say what you want it to say. And this is the case with a lot of people: they want the Bible to say what they want it to say, how they interpret it. And no, God says He elects, He appoints people to eternal life, He grants faith, He grants that we come to Christ. That's it. We're born again not of our own will.

I mean, I've got all the references for all this. And so, when I show this to people, they are really puzzled. And because they don't have a comprehensive theological framework, Then they ask episodic questions. Question about this one little point and this other little point. And I say, you don't have a comprehensive understanding of how it all fits together.

Let me explain it. And I do. And then they see it now. Here's something I've been thinking about doing, and I want your feedback on this. I'm thinking about Doing a video where I just go through basic Christian theology and just explain stuff and then take the video and import scripture references over the screen so you can see them when I talk.

I'm thinking about doing a procedure of establishing monotheism and then establishing the doctrine of the Trinity and establishing the person and work of Christ. And our salvation and justification, sanctification, and a few other things. And then go on to the basics of that faith, and then do some other topics similarly. I'm just thinking about doing this so the people can can um Just go to the link that I'll have down below in the video where you can get the notes. On a certain web page on the Karn site, and you can just go through the notes and you can print it up, and you can go through and read and stuff like that.

I'm thinking about doing that. I'd be as I want to help people understand the basics of the Christian faith, I want them to see it comprehensively. not episodically, episodic one episode here, then another episode there, but not related. I want to show people how the things are uh related comprehensively, not b ep not episodic episodic Episodically and without being too esoteric. All right.

I don't want to be pejorative when I go too further into Suscobadillian verbiage. Let's get to Oscar from New York. Oscar, welcome. You're on the air, man. And there's the break.

Sorry. I get to see him before. We got a break coming up, Oscar.

Sorry about that, but hold on, hold on.

Okay, oh, break. Oh, wait.

Okay. I think I did him before, just exactly that. Hey, folks, we have three open lines. Give me a call. 877-2072276.

We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. If you want to give me a call, we have two open lines: 877.

two zero seven two two 7-6. Oscar from New York. Welcome, brother. You're on the air. Yes, sir.

Yeah. Okay, thank you. I was listening to someone. You must tell me that when we're saved, our past, present sins are forgiven, but not our future sins. I don't quite understand.

Yeah, that's just error.

So Jesus canceled the sin dead at the cross, Colossians 2:14. It's not canceled depending on what you do, it's canceled based on what he did. The text says he canceled the certificate of debt, having nailed it to the cross. The certificate of debt, the sin debts, canceled at the cross. Logically, it can only be canceled for the believers, not for everybody.

Otherwise, nobody could go to hell because the sin debt would be gone. If someone were to say that Jesus only canceled part of your sins, That's stupid. You still go to hell then?

So it it doesn't make any sense. People will sometimes say he canceled him up to the point of when you believe. Then it's up to you and your goodness to be able to make sure that you're okay with God. It it it's just it's lame. It's from the book of uh second Ex Laxicus.

Okay. That's it. Okay, okay, that makes sense.

Well, thank you, thank you very much.

Okay, bye-bye.

Alright, brother. God bless. Mm-hmm. All right. Hey, if you want to get to be on the air here, just call 877-207-2276.

Let's get to Julie from South Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air. Oh, hey, Matt, I'm sorry. I'm just laughing at the last comment you said the book of Ex-Laxodus is hilarious.

I just don't want to do one. I got a whole bunch of them: second hysterectomy, first colostomy, the third moronical. I just love saying them, they're fun. I know you were so funny. Anyway, I just appreciate you so much.

Um Yeah, I just have a quick question for you. I'm hoping it's a quick question about Bible translations. My husband comes from a really strong fundamental Baptist background. I think you probably know where I'm going with this. And he just, I mean, he's just really.

What's that? Yeah. And so, you know, we're we're in the process of trying to join. Actually, I would really like to join a church and going to the same church for about a year. We both feel led.

We've both been praying about it. But Our password uses the CSB. And I mean, I asked my husband last night, I'm like, can we please make a decision about attending church? And he's like, she's still stuck on because they use the CSV, he doesn't I can just say he has pause. And I'm like, I need to call him back.

Like, make him happier. Let me talk to your husband. I'll talk to him. We'll call, you know, off the air. We can just talk.

I can run him through some stuff on the Bibles.

Okay, it's not a problem. I know he's not that. Yeah, yeah. And if he wants to trust a guy named Slick from the radio, but you know, we can do that. You know, I can look at that.

So what I do is, depending, I say, you know, the King James is a fine Bible, as long as you know where the problems are in it, because it was translated with 12th, 13th century documents, which means the old when it was translated in 1611, the 1600s, the oldest documents that they had were only 400, 500, 600 years older than that time. And so there you go. They trap, that's fine. But since that time they found documents um a thousand years older. And so the newer translations, NESB, ESV, NIV, et cetera, will translate with the older documents.

And the reason this is critical is because over time, errors would creep in.

Now, I'm not saying the Bible is not trustworthy. I'm not saying it's all corrupted. I'm just saying, for example, you might have someone copying a text, and the word the is in Greek is uh an o with a comma over it. in it it's pronounced ha. And so it's the it's just the word dot, and there's different forms of that, but we'll get into that.

Well, just one letter with a comma over it.

Well, you know, you could have a guy who could be just tired and he skips the single letter. or he duplicates at the end of one line and again at the second line. Or you could have a fragment of a papyri or a vellum document that the single little word the Which is just a little O, right? flakes off. And so the later copyists will copy it without that.

So as time goes on, a little bit more errors like these things kind of manifest.

Now, the text of the Bible overall, a New Testament, is 99.85% textually identical. There are differences in a few areas.

Some major ones are the ending of Mark, the woman caught in adultery, and what's called the comma joanium. And I'll get into all those another time.

So, the King James is fine for the 1600s. And he doesn't use the original King James, by the way. He doesn't do it. People don't know. No, they're not.

Well you can go on the web and look up 1611 text. It's hard to read. It's archaic. It really is. I mean, think about it.

It's just 11 years after the 1500s.

Okay. And so he's using a later edition of the King James, which has been. updated in English.

So he's not even using the original, and even then they made some corrections.

So this kind of stuff is is there. We can talk about. I'm just giving you a bunch of information. There's a lot of stuff there. No, I appreci I appreciate that.

Yeah. What are your thoughts about the CSB? The CSV is fine. In fact, I'm going to do this thing right now. I use the CSB or the CSV.

Then you see us. B? I think it's a CSB.

Okay, B, as in boy.

So then as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one act of righteousness there is justification leading to life. everyone.

So I I'm a bit um April. About Bible translations, and not perfectly consistent in my upper-ness. But I go to Romans 5:18, and that's the first verse I go to in any Bible to see how they translate it. And the CSB does not translate it in my opinion very well. The King James does a horrible translation of it.

Really horrible, seriously. The NESB is the best translation. And I can go into the theology of why. It takes a bit of time to do that. Maybe I'll do it on a break.

After the break, but. The The way of translating is critical.

So for example In Spanish to say I'm hungry, you say yo tengoambre. And literally, your tengo ambre is: I have hunger. That's the literal translation.

So if we were to have a translation Of that in a very literal sense, it would be I have hunger. A not as literal translation would be I have hunger. A not as literal as that translation would be, I am hungry. Or, even more casually, I'm hungry. Or even less, it would be I'm starving.

Yeah. And so you all of them share the same meaning. but there's different ways of getting to them. The question here is How How literal to the original do you want to be and still retain meaning?

So, if we have a super literal, I have hungry is number one, and I'm starving is number 10. The different translations of that would be parsed along from left to right at different levels. The same goes with Bibles. The same goes with pilots. The NASB would be more on the left.

The ESV would just be the right of that. The CSB would be to the right of that, the King James B over towards the right.

Now hold on, we've got a break coming up. Is this making sense to you or not?

Okay, hold on. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please, please, stay tuned. We're right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, and welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is easy. All you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you.

Give me a call. Let's get to Julie from South Carolina. Julie, welcome. You're on the air. Oh, welcome.

It's still me. Oh, that's right. I'm working on a actually working on an article. On the break. No, I appreciate your explanation.

So, I mean, of course, my husband often refers to Revelation 22, 18, 19. Yes, yes, yes. That's not a good challenge. And that's a challenge. Yeah, the problem here is I testify to everyone who hears the words of this prophecy of this book.

It's not the whole Bible. If anyone adds to them. Right. And so that's what's going on. And the same phraseology occurs in Deuteronomy as well.

Got it.

Okay. All right, Matt.

Well, thank you so very much. I really appreciate all your help.

Okay. And here's something that he's got to understand, I would politely say, is that if he goes to Revelation 22:18 to say that don't add or take away from the book, he's assuming the King James is the perfect translation. That's what she's assuming. But it is most definitely not. And I go to Romans 5:18 and I show people how the King James really messes that verse up badly.

When I say it can't be true, it's not a good translation for that verse. That's not to say. in other areas it isn't very good because it is good. But the reason I don't use the King James is because I was out witnessing in Southern California one time. I remember this, and I quoted the King James Verse: Thou, if thouest willest, you know, and the guy looked at me at the beach, surfers, and stuff like this, and he looks at me, he goes.

What are you an idiot? We don't talk like that. But going, that's it, I'm done. Never going to use the King James again. Just because it just got in the way of evangelism.

That was just that context.

Alright. Uh mm.

Well, thank you so much, Matt. Thank you so much. God bless you and your ministry. We really appreciate it. Oh, well, praise God.

Prescott, Chile. All right. Well, good. If you want to contact me, you can email me at info at carm.org and say, hey, let's talk to the hubby, and I'll be glad to talk to him, okay? I would love that.

Thank you. I know he would too. Thank you. All right, sure.

Okay, God bless. God bless. All right. You know, I talked to a woman on the phone yesterday, or a couple days ago. And uh she had a problem and so I called her up.

And uh Oh. We're talking, because she listened to me on the radio, and she goes, There's that voice. Yeah. I got a kick out of that. At any rate, so um Actually, the article I was going to work on, and I've talked about doing it before, just haven't done it, is to list out Bibles in their order from literal to Not literal.

and list them out. And so, in order, I think I might try and work on that. I already have a few in my head that I know are literal and some that are not literal and paraphrased, and filling in the blanks with a lot of them will be difficult, but maybe I'll work on that article. And that's what I was doing during the break: is trying to get the basics of that article. In fact, as I look at my list of verses I've got to work on or questions.

It's uh One thousand sixty eight. one thousand sixty eight verses. Uh Yeah, how about that? As uh And I don't know how many of them I've already worked on because I have so many of them that I can't remember all the titles, and then I'll work on an article.

So, what I have to do. is when I do an article Um I have to look on Karma to see if I've written on it before, because I've actually done this where I've written an article, and then I go to put it up, it goes, You've already got one. He goes, Oh man.

So, when you write a lot of stuff, it's difficult.

So, um Okay. Let's see. Let's see. We're looking at the text in the. uh the chat room in Rumble.

And the people are saying some interesting stuff there. They're talking about AI. They've got a $50 a month logout subscription with AI. That's good. And AI is coming up a lot, and I use it a lot now.

I've learned How to develop prompts. that don't tell me what I want to hear. I actually have a prompt. that says basically be brutally honest don't Say what I want to hear if I'm making a mistake in my thinking or research, point it out, you know, things like that. And it's very helpful because I can write an article and I can submit it and say, just analyze this for grammar or what thought have I got in there that's incorrect.

It doesn't really find too much generally, but I listen because I want to know what's going on. I want to know if there's another way to figure out issues and problems in my writing, am I understanding my research? But here's one thing that AI is very good at. Very good. I can, for example, say, please go find all of the church fathers, early church fathers before the year, whatever it is, that speak on the subject of the Lord's Supper.

And it'll actually please provide URLs to extant websites on the Internet. And what it's good at doing is going through and uh collating incredible vast amounts of information. And then it can go into its own algorithmic arrangement of stuff. and extract information and then produce A list.

Well, I don't trust it. Because I have discovered over the years, over the time using it, that a lot of times it will make up things. And I always verify everything. Give me a link, give me this, give me that. And if it gives me the l if it doesn't provide a link, I I just dismiss it.

But if it gives me a link, I go look at the link, go in and find the verse, the quote, whatever it might be, look at the context, read above and read after to make sure everything's legit, and then I you know, I'll I'll use it or not. That's a good example of something. The way I would do it before was go through my Law Goss Bible program and I'd have all of the Church Fathers uh open up and I would just type in a phrase like uh Lord's Supper. And it would give me the references in there. But sometimes I notice that they'll have a footnote or a little number or superscript next to something.

And then it won't pick it up because it has that, it's not the exact match of, you know, say Lord's Supper, it might be Lord's, and then the number five, supper, and five might be an asterisk, excuse me, a superscript, which is a footnote or something like that, and it won't pick it up.

So that's the one disadvantage of that. But nevertheless, it's a great tool, and I'll be writing more on AI. I've written several articles, I think like 15 or 20 articles on AI already, and I'll be doing more and more. All right. Hey, if you want to give me a call, you can eat 7720-72276.

I'm going to let you know that I'm working on the Carm newsletter. If you are interested in that, for the first one released this year, all you have to do is go to carm.org in the top of the page. And uh there you can it'll say newsletter. And you can click on that and just put your email in. We don't sell it, we don't give it away to anybody, we don't do anything like that.

And when we switched to the new system, let's say it got really complicated. Long story short, we lost thousands and thousands of people who'd signed up for the newsletter.

So we're trying to rebuild it. It's going to take a while. If you want that newsletter, then please consider going to carm.org and signing up. And I have not released a newsletter this year. And the reason is because I'm so busy.

With so many other things. It's just constant.

So, um, If uh you do want that newsletter, I plan to release it. Today or tomorrow. in there where I'm introducing a new writer for Carm and speaking of the staff and how to listen on radio and an appeal for support. We've got the first newsletter.

So there's that kind of stuff. And here's the thing. If You like the newsletter. If you want to sign up for it, why don't you email me at info at Carm.org and say what you'd like to see in the newsletter? Because one of the ideas I have is to take a verse and then just give a small paragraph exegesis on it.

and think about doing that. But this takes everything takes work. Everything takes work. And I have to fix typos, I have to fix, I have to write articles, I have to do videos, I have to do radio, I have to do maintenance on the site, I have to keep records. And I showed a friend of mine.

recently the number of folders. And that I have vector I think there's like 78,000 folders I have in my On my computer on the cloud, too. I have like 78,000. I'll do a count on it here in a minute. It's busy, you know, just so much to go on.

Just in my Dropbox folder, I'm going to do that. I have Dropbox. That's not even all the folders I have, but just on the ones there, I'm going to do a. checking the properties, it'll take a few minutes to come up. All right, let's get on with Bill from Virginia.

Bill, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, hi, Matt. How are you doing? Doing all right, man.

Hanging in there. Hanging in there. What do you got, buddy?

So I got a question.

So I've been thinking and reading a lot about predestination and the fact that people have to be drawn to God before they can have faith and be saved. But does that mean that God the other people that aren't drawn to God, He just created them so they could go to hell and be tortured forever?

Well, let's uh after the break, let's delve into that, all right? And we'll build a bit of that.

Okay. All right. All right, folks, you want to hold on, everybody? We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All Ronnie, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Bill from Virginia.

Bill, welcome. Are you still there, brother? Yes, I am. All right. Okay, so the more I think about it.

The more I think about it, the more it bugs me.

Well, I'm gonna give you an answer kind of and it'll bug you more.

Okay. And hopefully we'll try and deal with this, what what it actually says, what's going on.

So does God make purp people for the purpose of destruction?

Okay. That's basically what you're asking, right? Yeah. Okay. What if I told you?

That um That I let's say hypothetically, I affirmed, I said. That I believe that God makes all things even the wicked. for that di for that uh day of evil, for trouble. uh for destruction. What would you say?

Would you say it doesn't seem fair, right? Doesn't seem fair. You have a God sovereign, he can do what he wants. That's true.

Now that's a good comeback.

Now Proverbs 16:4 says, The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked, for the day of evil.

Now, in parallel translations, we have for the day of trouble. Uh the day of disaster. We have um Evil, the day of evil. And so I'm looking at different translations.

So He's making them for that purpose. It's really, oh man, you're gonna be kidding me.

Now let's let's look at some verses here, like Exodus 4.21. And God's talking to Moses, he says about Pharaoh, I myself will harden his heart.

so that he will not let the people go. He he hardens them on purpose. In Ecclesiastes 3.11, he has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their hearts, yet so that man will not find out the work of God as done from the beginning, even to the end. For God's one is in control.

Then we have these verses in Romans. Oh my goodness. What if God, although willing to to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much patience? Vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and he did so to make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he be prepare prepare oh my goodness, prepared beforehand for glory.

So It says here He made uh vessels prepared for destruction. I have a question. read this and they say, Well that's not fair.

Well, let's talk about fair is because I don't want what fair is. I don't want fairness from God, I want grace. Everybody is born under sin. Romans 5:19, through the transgression of the one, the many were made sinners. We were made sinners by what Adam did.

So God has the right to destroy anybody anytime. If he creates people from all eternity in the past, he decides who he's going to create or whatever. And people are by nature children of wrath. Ephesians two three. he can certainly create them for the purpose of being destroyed.

Because it would be first glory. People will generally react to that and say, no, that's not the blonde-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian server dude. Chris the New Woman's nightgown, asking permission for you to let him into his heart. And that's who they want to serve. And I say, Well, um I get it.

But you want fairness, right? Yeah. And they say it's fair that God gives everyone an equal chance. And I said, Where do you get that from? Wh where where's that from?

Where's it that says that fairness means God has to give everyone an equal chance?

Now they say it's fair. But where are you going to find that in the scripture? It does not say that. 1 Peter 2.8 says they stumble. Go ahead.

In the New Testament, Jesus says He's not willing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to everlasting life. Yeah, we'll get to that.

Okay. I'll show you.

Now, this is 1 Peter 2:8. They stumbled because they're disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed. Jude 4. For certain people have crept in unnoticed those who are b beforehand long marked out for condemnation. 2 Thessalonians 2:11 and 12, God sends a deluding influence on people so they'll believe a lie.

Or Revelation 17:17, for God has put it in their hearts to execute his purpose by having a common purpose and by giving them their kingdom to the beast.

So Um When people go to 2 Peter 3.9, he wants all to be saved. I say, okay.

Now we don't have a whole bunch of time, but I'll I'll go through it slowly, we'll try and get through some stuff. And I'll ask people. Does God want every individual to be saved? And they say, yes, He does. I said, Where's the verse for that?

2 Peter 3:9. He wants all to be saved. And I ask him, Who's the all? And they say it means every individual. How do you know?

Just questions. How do you know? That's what it means.

Okay, so he wants everyone to be saved, right? Right. That's what it all means, right, right. then why does Jesus speak in parables? In Mark 4 10 through 12 He speaks in parables so people will not be forgiven.

That's what he says. He speaks in parable so they will not be forgiven. That's what he actually says.

Now wait a minute. If God wants all to be saved, yet he speaks in parables so people will not be saved, I ask people: how do you reconcile that? How do you balance it? An inner stock. And I'll say, Yeah, I'm stuck.

I have an answer. And I'll say in 2 Thessalonians 2:11 through 12. He wants if he wants everyone to be saved, what is he sending a deluding influence on people? to believe a lie. And say, let me ask you a question.

Does God know what it would take? To save anybody, any time, anyhow, anywhere. Without violating their free will. And he can just save them all. Does he know what it would take for anybody at any time?

And the answer has to be Yeah. He's God. And you would agree, right? Yeah. Then why doesn't he do it?

Okay. Okay. Now, I'm going to try and trick you a little bit.

Okay, just a little bit politely, lovingly, I'm gonna try and trick you, okay. Go for it.

Okay, good.

So would you agree with me that whenever the Bible says we've died to sin, died with Christ, crucified with Christ. We have died to the elementary principles of the world. It's only talking about those who are believers, right? Yeah. Okay.

So when we set talk about us having died with Christ. That's not an unbeliever, that's a believer.

Okay, no problem. second Corinthians five fourteen. For the love of Christ controls us, having included this, that one died for all. Therefore all died. Who's the all who died?

Just a Christian. He died for all. Therefore, all died. The all is who he died for, and he tells us who that all is. the ones who've died in Christ.

This is not a theology that's taught. very often from pulpits, but it's right there. It's right there. Got it.

If you're to go, uh Romans Romans 5, 15, for example. For the free gift is not like the transgression, for if by the transgression of the one, the many, Much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ abound to the many. Verse 16 says the gift is not like the transgression. Verse 17, for if by the transgression of the one, Death reigns through the one. Much more, those who receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the one.

Jesus Christ.

So wait a minute. Paul is saying the many And the many are to be made alive. Grace will bound to the many. In Romans 5:15, the phrase the one is in reference to Adam, and then the phrase is in reference to Jesus. In Romans 5:18, so then through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men.

So, even so, through one act of righteousness, there resulted justification of life to all men. Here's a third instance where Paul is using the same phraseology for two different things. Condemnation to one man. justification of life to all men. In Romans 5.19.

For as through the one man's disobedience, the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one, the many will be made righteous.

Now we have the phrase the many, as in verse fifteen, referring to two different people groups. The many were made sinners, the many will be made righteous.

Okay. I'm trying to show is that Paul is theologically very deep. People don't hit very deep when they just look at the Word of God. They'll say he wants everyone to be saved. That's it, settled.

Then why does Jesus speak in parables so they won't be saved? And he creates people for the purpose of destruction. That's right. Creates the purpose of destruction in Romans 9:22-23.

Well, he wants all to be saved. Who's the all? That's the question now. Jesus says in John 6:37, All that the Father gives me will come to me. The ones who come to me, I certainly will not cast out.

All that the Father gives me. It's not All who come to me the Father will then give them to me. It doesn't say that. All that Father gives me will Come to me. When you go to Romans 8, 29, those whom he foreknew he also predestined.

The foreknown ones are the predestined ones. It does not say those who looked into the future to see who'd pick him, some of them may be predestined. It doesn't say that. It says those whom he foreknew, he also predestined. That's the same group.

He uh leaves his life down for the sheep. John ten eleven, John ten fifteen. John 10, 26, you're not my sheep.

Now I'm throwing a lot of stuff out. This is the kind of thing that needs to be studied. But let's look at it this way. put it together. People make a mistake when they enter into this discussion on this topic they don't study very deeply, generally speaking.

And I get it because they don't have the privilege that a lot of us do to just sit there and study and study for long periods of time, for years. We figure these things out. But what we see is that God does elect, He chooses people for salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says so. Acts thirteen forty eight says As many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

That's what it says. Those whom he foreknew, he also predestined. Do we see that there's the chosen ones for salvation? We are pointed to eternal life. From the beginning.

Those are the ones he's chosen to save. all that the Father gives me will come to me. And apparently there are others. who were not made for that purpose of redemption. but for some other purpose.

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And he did so. to make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy which he prepared before him for glory.

Now we've got less than a minute, so let me just say this. As stark as this presentation might be, there is another side of the coin. Apparently, the more we preach and teach, the more people are predestined to be saved. I don't know how that works. Oh.

So I preach and I teach, I evangelize, and I say things to my Lord, and I say, Lord. If that person is not elected from the foundation of the world, can you please elect him from the foundation of the world? I'm saying I don't know how it works. I'm forced to believe what the Scripture says. You're the sovereign king.

But would you please save more? Let me be an instrument in your hand. And finally, I could. be misunderstanding the text. And so I don't put all my eggs in a five point basket.

I put him in the Word of God. It says He makes em for destruction. therefore I must conclude he does that. And we all deserve that. the ones that He shows mercy to are the ones who receive that grace and that faith in Christ.

by his hand.

Okay. All right, Matt, thank you so much. All right, brother. God bless, Bill. Hope that helped.

A lot of them.

Alright, bye.

Okay. I know it's a lot of information. I wish I could have a whole hour to go through all of that slowly, but it's the kind of study that I present to people that forces them to do some serious digging and serious thinking. Which is, in my opinion, always good. May the Lord bless you by His grace.

Back on there tomorrow. And have a great evening, everyone. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.