Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Alright everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. As usual, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 8772072276. and if you are so inclined you can email me. That's easy.

Direct your email to info at carm.org, info at carm.org. Put in a subject line, radio comment or radio question, one of those. And generally, we guess what we do. We get to them a little bit later. All right.

So. All right, man. I am so busy. And um I just got so easy I'm working on.

So, tell you what, let's get to the call and the tone I've been working on. I released an article today. And let's get to Jermaine from California. Jermaine Baltimore, you're on the air. Did I not click it properly?

There we go, I did. Jermaine, are you there, buddy? All right, you can hear me now.

Now I hear you.

Now I hear you.

All right.

Oh wait. Yeah, I want to ask about crimes committed by those in ministry who have repented, but they were you know they were young when they did them. Are they Are they disbarred from serving in the ministry if they've repented? Yeah, that's a good question.

So um Basically, they're not disbarred because let's say that one guy did drugs, it was a drug dealer. And then he became born again. He repented of all of that. Slates clear, just like Paul the Apostle. This slate was wiped clear, and he was called to be an apostle.

So, if people have done bad things and then become redeemed, I just look at it as it's all gone, it's all in the past. Let's not worry about it, let's just move forward. And that's all the the normally speaking, that's it.

Okay.

Well, just to clarify, Lil, I was just considering like the Robert Morris situation. where You had a guy who who did some pretty bad stuff when he was young. And I assume he repented, but he I guess his the elder board or the staff no one knew the full extent. of what actually happened is that actual repentance? Or is that attempting to kind of hide a crime 'cause it It depends.

Yeah, I know it's kind of a gray area. It depends. And there are things in our past that we have to take care of. For example, I remember once that and I've talked about it in a radio before when I was young and stupid. I started an auto race, a car race, and in Southern California one night.

I've forgotten what year it was. And there was a traffic accident because of it, directly because, and I fled the scene.

Well, you know, I just okay, fine, whatever. I should have stayed and should have done this and that, but I didn't.

So years later, after I became a minister, after I became, you know, doing what I'm doing in apologetics, that memory started coming back. and it wouldn't l uh leave.

So I kept praying about it and I thought, okay, this is the Lord talking to me and I need to pay attention. And so long story short, it was you know, it was a car accident. People were injured, okay, and I fled the scene. And so I called up the police department in the city that I thought it was. And I've Told him everything.

And I said, Look, if you tell me to fly down and arrest me, then fine, I'll do it. And I told my wife I'd do that. And I talked to a pastor friend about everything. And we just put it all in God's hands. And she'll remember the conversation.

And the cop said, Look, I don't even know if you're telling me the truth, but I assume you are. He says, And even if you are Tell me the truth, he says, We wouldn't care because it was so long ago, like 40 years ago, no, like 50 years ago, kind of thing. And he said, There's no way to prove it. We wouldn't know who to contact. The files have all been moved into a basement someplace, if it's even in this city you're talking about.

And he says, And if you were to contact a detective or whoever, no one's going to care. We got more important things to do right now. That's in the past. Forget about it, he says, let it go. And then I had release after that.

I was able to let it go. I was willing to face the consequences of this. I don't know how bad people were hurt or not, but you know, that was a traffic accident.

So it's just an example of the things in our past that can be forgiven, but sometimes God will require us to take care of them. and deal with past issues. And sometimes he doesn't.

Sometimes it's just gone. And it it just depends on what it is. And so, between the individual and God and ministry and things like that, it depends on the context, depends on the issue, depends on. On several factors. And so, you know, if someone with a Did drugs and has repented?

Well, it's just in the past. If he was a drug dealer 40 years ago, it's in the past. But what if he did something like I did, or something that someone else has done in some other or in worse areas? And you know, i the crime is still extant, so to speak. What do you do?

And that's between that person and God at that time. Make sense. Yeah, that that actually that makes a lot of sense. It's just I know in this situation of the uh well then young lady, now a grown woman, felt she never got justice and just now got it, years, decades later. But uh there's just some some of these people I think if had they done the right thing, would have kind of fessed up a law earlier and not.

Try to sugarcoat and hide and then still serve a ministry. That just seems a little. a little devious. I mean, I I do believe you can be forgiven, but it's It's a little dishonest. and and very presumptuous to say I'm going to preach when you know you've you've committed some really bad crime that has not been rectified.

Right. And I agree. In fact, there were people that I had offended, and I contacted them and said sorry, etcetera. Try to make amends. I know a pastor who spent time in a federal federal prison.

And I just asked him once, I've talked about it on the radio before. I said, Can I ask what you did? And he said, no, he goes, I don't talk about that man. He's gone, he's dead. He says, I'm a new creature in Christ.

I went, good enough for me. We have a guy coming to a Bible study who spent more than half of his life in prisons. He's tattooed and the whole bit, and he comes up to my Bible study now. I don't care where his past was. And it's all rectified, it's all done.

Taken care of.

So this is a tough one, but people need to Ask God if they want them to take care of it, to bring it up to To make it right, so to speak, confess up and just deal with it. And it's good to have a clean slate. And I always like to have a clean slate. That's why when my wife was alive, with this little issue, I would talk to her about it because I didn't like any weight upon my heart. It would interfere with my work, my ministry, my relationship with Christ, and with her.

And so I would talk to her about things. I haven't got to the point where she got to the point with me where she once said, You don't have to tell me these details. I understand. He goes, It's okay. You know, because I was just trying to be right and honest with her.

And uh It's just it's between you and God. At that point, okay. Right. All right.

Well, thanks again, Matt. Look forward to uh Lord willing tomorrow. All right, brother. God bless, man. God bless.

Alright, God bless you.

Okay.

All right, now let's get to Oscar from New York. Oscar, welcome. You're on the air. Yes, sir. Thank you.

My question is. How do we know we are saved? How can I personally? You see, 1 Corinthians 2:14 says that the natural man cannot receive or does not understand or receive the things of God. And he's by nature a child of wrath, a sinner, and he's at war with God without knowing it.

Yeah. When we become born again, God grants to us the faith, Philippi 1.29. He grants that we come to Christ, John 6.29. Or John 6:65, excuse me. And our believing in Jesus is the work of God, John 6:29.

So. If we are believing in Christ, trusting in Christ, all this by faith, we've come to Him, it's because God has granted it to us and we're saved. And that's how you can know. And 1 John 5:13 says, These things are written so you may know you have eternal life. We can know it.

And we can know it by not having to require from ourselves doing good works and/or sacraments in order to maintain our salvation. because then you could never know it. And so, if you don't rely on your own ability, but you rely completely on Christ's. And you trust in what Christ has done and you acknowledge who He is. Jesus says in John 8, 24, Unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.

You gotta believe He's the I Am. He died on the cross, rose from the dead. If you receive Him and trust in Him, hey, you're in, you're saved. It has to be a true Christ, not the Mormon one. Or they're Jehovah's Witness one, and has to be the true gospel, not the false gospel of Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism.

Okay? Yes, no. Thank you very much.

Okay, bye-bye. All right.

God bless.

Bye.

Okay.

All right.

So, if you want to give me a call, the number is 8772072276. And um We got a break coming up here in a couple three minutes, but I did.

some extensive work. Over the past two or three days on a single word in the Bible. And I'm going to talk about it a little bit. I've talked about it before on the radio. Things cross-pollinate.

And um It the Well anyway. The reason is, the reason I wrote this article is I was in a chat room. And I love being in chat rooms because I get these challenges from different directions from different people. And they don't realize they're helping me.

So I go, that's a good question. And I will go and I'll write an answer to that question, to research it and stuff.

Well, in Colossians 2:14, it says, having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees. Which was hostile to us. He'd taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. And I was talking to a guy. Because this verse is extremely powerful.

There's so much in it. And it just trounces false religions. It really does. I'm going to expand on it. I'm going to go through it and teach you.

So I said, you know, I asked this one guy I was talking to, what is the certificate of debt?

Well, before the break gets here, this one Mormon guy jumped in. He said, it's the, I don't remember the exact word, but it had to do with the ordinances or the things, the requirements of the Pharisees. That the certificate of debt dealt with the Pharisaical rule. Nothing in the context says that at all. And I thought, how ridiculous to say this And the reason he said it, I know it, is because if he believed what it actually said, it would destroy Mormonism.

It would destroy, and it also would destroy Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. And this verse is really powerful.

So I'm going to go through it. Talk about it. I'm going to explain some stuff out of the Word of God. And as usual, you've got to be careful. You know, you can't trust a guy in the radio named Slick.

You've got to be really careful.

So, you always check what I say against the Word of God. I have no problem with that. But the issue here is found in Colossians to fourteen. But what I want to do, and I'll kind of stall a little bit until the break comes, I can do one just kind of solid teaching on this. But I'm going to go through this after the break, starting at verse 13, focus on verse 14, and go through it.

It's a really interesting verse. Colossians 2.14.

Now, I just want to remind you that we stay on the air by your support. And I'm just going to tell you, we need that support. This time of the year is when Carm has to pay for insurance. Media insurance and libel insurance for the board and things like that. And it's several thousand dollars.

And so I'm having to pay that, and let's just say we're going to be strapped. And God provides. I'm just saying, if you like the show and you like the site and stuff, you want to see it continue, please consider supporting us. Just go to carm.org forward slash donate. And carm.org forward slash donate.

The information you need is right there. You can set it up. We have a new system so you can go in and cancel it, modify it anytime you want. It's easy. Your own login and everything.

So there you go. Carm.org forward slash donate. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick.

All right everyone, welcome back to the show.

So what I want to do Yeah. Is teach some theology right out of the Word of God. And I'm going to warn you. that uh this whoops hold in there we go I'm going to warn you that This may not agree with you in some areas. It may cause problems.

It may challenge you. And if it does, then good. But the challenge is only as good as my analysis of the text goes. And I've been studying this verse off and on for quite a while, and I've quoted it countless times. I've memorized it just.

by accident, coding it over and over again.

So I'm going to go to Colossians 2.13. And read that and then go to verse 14, which is really an important verse. That's what I'm going to focus on because you need to know a little bit of the context here. It says When you were dead in your transgressions, and the uncircumcision of your flesh He made you alive together with him. having forgiven us, All our transgressions, verse 14, having canceled out the certificate of debt.

consisting of decrees against us which was hostile to us, and he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Okay, so It says in verse 13, at the end of it, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having cancelled the certificate of debt, in verse 14.

So, the canceling of the certificate of debt is related to the forgiveness of our sins, forgiving us all our transgressions.

So what is this? Certificate of debt. It's a Greek word. Chirographon. Taragraphon.

And what I did was, I spent some time going through all kinds of what's called lexicons and Bible dictionaries. and doing word studies. And so I have nine citations from different sources. And uh One of them says a handwritten document, a certificate of indebtedness, account, record of debts. Another one says handwriting, record of debt, a note written by the hand, which makes one obligated to fulfill what is written.

Now the word kerographon is comprised of two words, care, hand, graphé, writing. Carog Graffon, The first thing that I've seen is that the but it only occurs once in the entire Bible. and it's right there in Colossians 2.14.

Now in the history of it, it was understood was used in other documents. It's a handwritten statement, especially a record of financial accounts. Another lexicon, or this is studylite.org. Lexicon says, It's a note of hand or writing in which one acknowledges that money has either been deposited with him or lent to him by another. I'm not going to read all the documentation of where it's from, but here's another one.

It's their certificate of indebtedness. Another is a certificate of indebtedness or a bond. Another one is certificate of indebtedness. Another one says a handwritten legal document, legal note, bond, certificate of debt. Another one says a certificate of debt or bond.

All right.

So, the chirographon, as we were to, if we were to look at it and summarize what it is, it is. A handwritten Notes of debt of indebted, of being indebted to somebody or something.

So I like to say it's a handwritten note or handwritten debt of an IOU. You owe in the debt. You owe it. It's a quick and easy way to say a handwritten IOU of it of legal indebtedness. But it's an account of legal indebtedness, and that's what it is.

Now why is this so important? Because of how Paul the Apostle uses it, and it is. It's just mind-blowing.

Now think about this. Having cancelled out the certificate of debt. What debt is it?

Well, in 1 John 3.4, God says through John, it says, It says sin is breaking the law of God, it's transgression of the law. That's what it is. Jesus, you know, our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Jesus says in Matthew 11, 4, Matthew 6:11, excuse me. Oh, I got my verses mixed up.

Matthew 6:11, he says, forgive us our debts. as we forgive those who are debted against us. In Luke 11, 4, the parallel forgive us our sins as we forgive those who are indebted to us.

So Jesus undoubtedly equates sin with legal debt. Maybe you're getting my picture here. What's going on? Mm-hmm.

So the certificate of debt. In fact, when Jesus was on the cross, he said to Telesti, John 19:30, it is finished. Tetelesty is a legal term also. And it's been found handwritten on ancient tax receipts, you know, in a different handwriting, to tell us it's paid in full, it's done.

Okay, so So when it says, having cancelled out the certificate of debt, now it says this, consisting of decrees against us. What would those decrees be? The things of God, the written word of God. The written word of God is what we're violating. the decrees.

that are are are there. The dogma sin. And that word is only used five times in the New Testament, and it deals with the decrees, ordinances. that God has given, and that can be given, I should say. And so a certificate of debt consisting of these decrees against us, which was hostile to us.

That means it's the law. The law is hostile to us. The decrees in that law: don't lie, don't steal, don't do this, you have to do this, honor your mother and your father, etc. These aspects of the requirements that God has given. Are hostile.

for us. Uh people say, well what do you mean they're hostile? They kill us. They're dangerous for us. And the reason they are is because the law requires perfection.

And shows us our imperfection. The law says be holy and shows us where we lack that holiness. The law says you'll be free if you don't sin. but condemns you when you do. The law is hostile.

it is the thing by which we are judged. because the standard of the law Is God's own character. When He says, Let there be light, He's speaking out of His character. If He says, Don't lie, He's speaking out of His character. Don't bear false witness.

Honor your mother and your father. These are things that reflect the character of God. And so God is perfect, we are not. He's holy, we are not. He never sins, and that certainly is not the case with us.

So, the law, which is his written word through the prophets in the Old Testament and the New Testament and the apostles. is hostile because we can't keep it. It requires the opposite of what it brings. It requires perfection, brings us imperfection. It requires holiness, shows us our unholiness.

It's really interesting. That's why the law is hostile. That's why the decrees of God, all these things are hostile. Because we cannot keep them. We can't do it.

And that's why he says that.

So this word, Dharmatsen, occurs five times. The decrees that are against us.

Now, it says in Luke 2:1: Now, in those days, a decree went out from Caesar Augustus. In Acts 16, 4, it says note it says assuming now while they were passing through the cities they were delivering the decrees which had been decided upon by the apostles and the elders. In Acts 17, 7, and Jason has welcomed them. and they all act contrary to the decrees of Caesar. Ephesians 2:15, by abolishing in his flesh the enmity, which is the law of commandments contained in ordinances.

That word ordinances dogma sin. The same word. the law of compan of commandments.

So we have an interesting issue here. that the law is hostile to us. And what was cancelled? The law? or our sin.

And we'll get to that when we get back from the break. Please stay tuned. Be right back. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Well, there we go. All right, when welcome back to the show and Hope you think this is interesting. I'm going to continue with this and go through this and show you why this is such a powerful verse for a lot of things. It's one of my favorite verses in the Bible. I think it is one of the most powerful verses in the Bible.

That's my opinion. All right, so we asked what was canceled, the certificate of debt.

Now, by the way, different translations will say different things. The CSB says he erased the certificate of debt. The Dewey Rehm says blotting out the handwriting of decrees. The authorized, no, the ASV amplified. No, what is that?

That's the. Uh having blotted out the bond written in ordinances. The New King James as having wiped out the handwriting of requirements. ESV says cancelling the record of debt.

So you can see there's it's really an interesting word, chirographon, and how it's translated, because it has a wider range of meaning than just. Uh debt. It has its handwriting of ordinances, but what ordinances? The debt ordinances.

So this is why you get different translations. And they're all legitimate. All right, now.

So what's cancer? We have two main options. One is the law, and one is our sin. Because remember, Jesus equated sin with legal debt. And so, if he equated sin with legal debt, I'm going to say that it was the sin debt that was canceled.

Now, before we get to that, let's look at the idea of the law being cancelled.

Well, if it's canceled, there's a problem. Because if the law is what is canceled at the cross. then there is no law and without the law there is no sin. Because the Bible says in Romans 5:13, without the law there is no sin. Sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Is not reckoned to your account. You don't have it.

So if the law is canceled, then there is no more sin. Oh, that's that's a problem. That would mean then that nobody sins ever, anytime, anywhere, anyhow. And that would not be true.

So that doesn't make sense.

So it's one person has told me it's the Pharisaical requirements. I'm like, oh my goodness. And it was really horrible. And nothing in the context suggests that in the slightest. But the word decree, they're going to say that it means the decrees of the Pharisees, and that's not what was canceled at the cross.

So, anyway. Since Jesus equated sin with debt, it's the sin debt that was cancelled.

Now if he cancelled the Syndette, then we have an issue.

So let me do now is give you an illustration of something. This is really important theologically and logically.

So I call this illustration Coma Man. He's uh a guy who on the first Monday of every month He drives to the bank and he pays $1,000 on his mortgage. He's been doing this for years. It's a ritual, and everybody at the bank expects him on that first Monday. He's been doing this for a long time and it's a great time.

On this one particular Monday, He gets in a very bad car accident. and he ends up in a hospital in a coma for two months.

Now he's going to be okay, don't worry about it.

So, two months, he's not making those payments. a philanthropist hears about this guy's uh issue. And the philanthropist goes to the bank, talks to the bank manager, says, I want to pay this guy's debt. And they arrange it, and he goes in and he pays the entire mortgage off.

Now He cancelled the certificate of debt. He cancelled the legal debt. He cancelled that debt. The Coma Man isn't even aware of it.

Now here's a question. Is the debt cancelled or not cancelled? Yes, it's cancelled. Coma man wakes up and he has a miraculous recovery, takes an uber. and he goes to the bank and he has to pay off his his um his mortgage has to catch up and he takes his check for uh I think three thousand dollars here 'cause he missed two months.

He's got another one to do. He's gonna he's gonna pay off the the debt that he the back debt that he owes. He doesn't pay the whole thing off. And the teller says, I'm sorry, we can't accept your payment because the debt has already been paid. And he said, What do you mean it's been paid?

Well, it's been paid.

Somebody came in and paid it.

Well, who did it, ma'am? He wants to remain anonymous.

Now the the coma man says, Well, I don't accept that. And the teller says, Well, sorry. It's paid.

Well, I don't like it. It doesn't matter. I don't accept it, it doesn't matter. Take my check anyway. You can't.

If the debt's paid, it's gone. It doesn't exist anymore. If the bank were to take a payment for a debt that didn't exist, that'd be illegal as well as immoral.

Now here's a question. If Jesus canceled the sin debt at the cross, that's what it says. Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us, he's taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When is it taken away? At the cross.

It's not taken away. When you believe. Oh this is critical. Uh maybe your eyes are jump your eyebrows are going, What? You don't just What do you mean not taken away when you when you believe?

Well, it's not. is cantled at the cross, not when you believe.

Well wait a minute Matt that can't be Oh, it'd be. Having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us which was hostile to us, he has taken it out of the way, having nailed to the cross. What is he taken out of the way? The list of decrees and the list of sins, the indebtedness we have because of all of this, it's taken away. Our sin debt is taken away.

Remember in John 6:20, Romans 6:23, excuse me. Paul says the wages of sin is death. you can earn because it's a legal issue. To wages this in his death. Here in Colossians 2:14, he says, Having forgiven us all our transgressions, verse 14, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us, he's taken it out of the way, having nailed to the cross.

It was removed at the cross. Not when you believe, not when you get baptized. When you believe, you're justified. God grants that we have faith, Philippians 1:29. Our faith is in Christ, John 6, 29.

Having therefore been justified by faith. Romans 5:1.

Now this is difficult for a lot of people to hear. I only know of one theological position that this is not a problem with. and that this supports that theological position. Maybe I'll tell you what it is, maybe I won't. The issue here is, what is it actually saying?

Is the Decree, the certificate of debt that consists of these decrees, that consists of all this, because you break the law, you have a debt, debt-out law. It's removed at the cross. Who did you remove it for? Do you need to remove it for everybody who ever lived? If so, how How could anyone Go to hell.

because the sin debt for every individual has been removed. People say to me, Well, Matt, they have to accept it. in order for it to be valid. and applied to them. But that's not what it says.

It says he removed or cancelled the certificate of debt, having knelt to the cross. It's removed there. It's not removed when you believe. is not removed when you apply it yourself. It's not removed when your humanist philosophy has to get involved, and then you activate the power of God's blood by what you do.

Yeah. What Christ did is in and of itself sufficient. And so he did this.

Now just so you know, a propitiation Is a sacrifice that removes wrath. It removes it, it doesn't make it possible. It's done. On Yom Kippur when the high priest would go into the temple, And he would offer uh blood on the mercy seat. Israel as a covenant nation was then okay with God for a year.

The wrath of God was removed from the covenant people of God for that next year. For that year. And then each year they had to go do that on the Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur. And so this was a propitiatory sacrifice. And it made the issue here relevant because a propitiatory sacrifice is not something that makes it possible.

but it's actually done by the doing. It's accomplished when it's accomplished. It's finished when it's done.

So, if he removed the wrath on the propitiatory sacrifice, it's done when the high priest sprinkles the blood on the mercy seat. It's done. It doesn't depend on anybody else to make it valid if you accept it. That's not Bible. It's not scripture.

Likewise. Jesus is the propitiation for our sins, only for our sins, but the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2.

Now, just so you know. In Matthew 15, 24, Jesus says he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He wasn't sent to the whole world. Israel broke the covenant with God, and we, the Gentiles, were then grafted in. Hence, God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, John 3.16.

But covenantally, Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. In Matthew 15, 24, they broke the covenant and were grafted in. Who did he cancel the sin debt for?

Well, Jesus says in John 10, 11 and 15, He says he lays his life down for the sheep. In verse 26, he says, You're not my sheep. Who did he lay his life down for? The sheep. Who did he cancel the sin debt for?

the sheep. Is it dependent upon their goodness? For its validity? No. Is it dependent on their baptism for its validity?

No. Is it dependent upon them doing good works for its validity? No. This Just destroys. false religions.

And when you get back in the bake, the break, excuse me. I'll go over just how. this theology and this teaching out of Colossians 2.14 Destroys baptismal regeneration, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Mormonism. Be right back, please. Stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, buddy, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it's easy. 877-207-2276. We have two callers waiting, but I want to finish up. what I'm talking about here.

If it's the case that the sin debt is canceled at the cross, not when you believe. Not when you get baptized. then it cannot be the case that sacraments are needed It cannot be the case that baptism is needed for the forgiveness of sins. It cannot be the case that works are needed for the forgiveness of sins.

Now you should work You should get baptized, you should partake in communion, etcetera. But those aren't the things, nor are they the means, by which we obtain the forgiveness of sins. the sin debts cancelled by Jesus at the cross, Colossians two fourteen. When we believe, when God grants us that belief, Philippians 1:29, we're then justified, Romans 5:1. Ephesians 4 uh Romans 4, 5 also.

This then Negates the false teachings of Catholicism, which says that you cooperate with God in your good works and commandment keeping to get your salvation, because in order to have your sins forgiven, You have to participate in their sacraments, confess them, and all this stuff, by which you then can go to heaven. The same with Eastern Orthodoxy. And then likewise in Mormonism, though it's not to that extreme of sacraments, they do have the idea that you have to uh do good in order to be saved and do good works. You can't know for exact certain if all of your sins are forgiven at any particular time.

Now they have a more convoluted theory, but that's don't have time to get into it right now. The Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, say that commandment keeping is necessary to attain salvation. This means then it's necessary then to attain the forgiveness of sins by what you do. And this negates and goes against what Colossians 2:14 says. Colossians 2:14.

It is a very powerful verse. is a go-to verse that I use to demonstrate Visit them. Theology. and more. There's actually more in it.

But I don't have time right now to get into that, and I'll leave that for another time. And we'll get to the callers and hope you enjoyed that. Let's get to Randy from Kentucky. Randy, welcome. You're on the air.

Yes, sir. My question today is just. Like, well there in 1 Corinthians 13.10, where it talks about that which is perfect coming or the perfect coming. What is your take on that? That's the return of Christ.

It's not the Bible, and it's the return of Christ.

Okay? I can tell you why, but that's what I believe.

Okay.

Yeah, that's sort of where I'm at. I think I used to teach that wrong. I used to be one of those that said the New Testament, but that don't make sense anymore, honestly, now that I look at it.

Well, look at what it says, when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

Well, when the perfect comes. Then it says, When I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, etc. And then it says in verse 12, Now, now we see in a mirror dimly, but then. face to face. The then refers back to the perfect.

Where it comes?

So, when you do a study on the word face-to-face, on the phrase face-to-face, it always means personal encounter. Always. And he says, now I know in part But then I'll know, just as I'm fully known, to be known is salvific. God says, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and I give eternal life to them. In Matthew 7, 22 and 23, I didn't now get away from me, I never knew you.

So this idea, then I will know just as I've fully been known, is also salvific. This is the return of Christ. It's not the completion of the Bible. All right, return of Christ.

So that's why I believe all the charismatic gifts are for today and available today, though maybe not normally exercised all the time.

Okay? Yes, sir. And can I ask one more question kind of tied to that? Sure, go ahead.

Okay, with everyone well, not everyone, but you know in the modern tongue's movement how some of the hither gibberish prayer language site There's a high volume of them doing that. What do you think's going on there? I think they're arrogant, they're not biblical, they're fools. And the reason is because uh they are But they're doing it in in their foolishness. They come on.

Get back in there. What they're doing is not following Scripture. The scripture says if you're going to speak in tongues, you do it in two or three in the context of a church. If there's no interpreter, you keep quiet. Otherwise, the unbelievers will think you're mad.

So they're being foolish in that they are not exercising wisdom, they are providing stumbling blocks for unbelievers. And this and going against the scriptures blatantly.

So the thing about speaking in tongues is it how do you verify it?

Somebody says something, though, you know, like, gotta buy a Honda. You know, I gotta buy a Honda. Right. Right. So what but what does it mean?

Well, if there's no interpreter, then keep quiet.

Now, I have a pastor friend from Calvary Chapel. We get together if we pray, and he says, Do you mind if I pray in tongues? I have no problem at all, whatsoever. Say, go for it. I don't need to know what he's saying.

And if he doesn't know, that's okay. But he's praised patients in tongues. I have no problem. And it's not in a church setting and he's not doing it out of order. And I respect him and I value him as a as a good Christian friend.

And so that's not a problem. But if I'm in a church and a bunch of people are singing in tongues or speaking in tongues, there's no interpretation, and they violated 1 Corinthians 14. And those people get up in front of these big congregations and they show off, they're being fools. They're just being forced to do it. You know?

Okay.

Well, thank you very much, sir. Appreciate your time. All right, brother. God bless.

We got it. All right, now let's get to Patrick from North Carolina. Patrick, welcome you on the earth Uh hello Matt, how you doing tonight? I'm doing all right. By God's grace, what do you got, buddy?

The Colossians 2:14, when it says the certificate of debt was handwritten. Um I kind of believe that. The certificate of debt nailed to the cross is a blank certificate. As we live our lives, God handwrites our sins on each certificate.

So he keeps track of our sins. Otherwise If it's like you believe that our sins were forgiven at the cross and everybody is saved. before they're even born. What is that true? I didn't teach that at all.

I didn't teach they're saved before they're born. There's more to this, and I've just taught one section of it. because there's the theology of the now and the not yet and the nature and extent and the power of the atoning work. There's more to this. If it's nailed to the cross if our sins are forgiven at the cross two thousand years ago, When we're born, our sins are already forgiven, correct?

Okay, you don't understand. It does not say forgiven, it says the sin that's canceled. What is the sin debt that it says the sin debt?

So it's canceled at the cross.

So there's a a doctrine here. The Coma man it uh he pays our debt, so we have no no sin debt at the cross. I mean so the the issue here is what's called the now and the not yet. It's a theological tension. For example, Jesus bore our sin in his body on the cross, 1 Peter 2:24.

That means he bore my sin in his body on the cross, but that's 2,000 years after the cross. His then. present time was his now. It was my not yet. But yet he bore my sin even though I had even existed.

So it's called the now and the not yet. We have uh we have lots of instances of this in the scriptures.

So when Christ canceled the sin debt, He canceled it for those past, those who were present at His time, the sheep, that is, and those who are to be future born. They weren't forgiven. If they weren't even alive, Get their sin debts canceled.

So you can't say they're born forgiven because they haven't experienced the forgiveness because you can be born, and a person might not be granted repentance and faith by God until he's 50 years old.

so he's functionally under the judgment of God. but he's not experienced the justification of God or the regenerative work of God. But that person, and the only reason he becomes a believer is because he's one of the elect. Because God says and through Paul in Ephesians 1.4 It says that he chose us in him before the foundation of the world. In 2 Thessalonians 2.13, it says, he chose us from the beginning for salvation.

So we're chosen for salvation. Jesus says he came to redeem those given to him by the Father. All those who the body gives to me will come to me. It all makes perfect sense. But you believe that your future sins have already been forgiven at the cross.

They have been canceled. I keep using this one term. What's it? Canceled. Forgiveness is something experienced by an individual.

But if the individual doesn't exist yet, they can't experience a forgiveness. But the sin debt imputed to Christ was dealt with at the cross.

Okay, so the elect have to be born again, baptized with the Holy Spirit to have their sins forgiven. No, baptism of the Holy Spirit is the movement of the charismatic gifts and things like that. They have to be born and granted faith by God, Philippians 1:29. And when they're granted that faith by God, He grants that we believe, that's what it says in Philippians 1.29, that's when we're justified. Totally.

Romans 5:1.

So, even if our sins are forgiven at the cross, we still have to be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven. I keep telling you: don't use the word forgiven, use the word canceled. That's what the biblical term is. I explained why. It's like you're not hearing me.

But it's hard to understand that way because we're talking about the certificate of debt canceled our debt, the sins.

So you've got to admit that. That at the cross, you believe that all your sins, even the sins you do tomorrow, are already forgiven because you're one of the elect. That's not true. You keep doing this. I keep telling you: don't use the word forgiven, use the word canceled.

The legal debt's canceled. That's what the text says. You keep not using the text, you keep changing it.

Well, if Coma man would have bought another house, would that house be already paid for because the guy forgive all his debt? Look, it's just it's an analogy, it's an illustration to show that when a debt is canceled or paid, it doesn't exist anymore. That's all the illustration is meant for. No, I keep telling you. If he bought another house two weeks before this.

And the guy didn't know it, would he have canceled that to a vet house? Oh, my goodness Patrick Dude, you're not listening. No, I'm listening, but you're not understanding what's really going on. Patrick, you're not listening. You s I mean, obviously you're not listening.

He was in a coma for two months in the illustration. How could he buy a house two weeks before that debt canceling?

Well, that's pay four uh two months ago that the guy didn't know about. Oh, gosh. Yeah. So look. All I'm saying is that our sins are that's why the certificate of death is blank and it's a handwritten because God handwrites each one of our sins on that certificate.

When we die, he g we go to the judgment seat and he pulls out that certificate and he looks at it and says, You've done all these sins. And that's what we have to account for. Yeah, that's taught in the book of second hysterectomy. That's where you're getting that. That's what I'm teaching you.

That I think you've got it misunderstood about Colossians 2:14. I think you don't understand that. What is the certificate of debt? You said the certificate of debt is nothing there.

So, how could he cancel nothing? Because we haven't lived yet. Because we haven't haven't been born yet. Oh my goodness.

Well, it was nice talking to you, Patrick. It was nice talking to you. It's nice talking to you. We just need to move along because we've got 30 seconds left before the music starts. I hope you guys enjoyed the teaching of Patrick.

Mm-hmm.

Patrick is in a coma. That's what one of the guys said in the chat. This is a simple issue of logic, and it does take some thinking, but there's more to this I could bring out. But it's a very powerful verse. I hope you guys enjoyed that.

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Have a great evening, everyone. God bless.

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