Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you'll listen to Matt Slick Live today's date. is May 18th, 2026. Hope you're all having a good day. Hope you all had a good weekend.

And as usual, if you want to give me a call, all we have to do is dial 8772-072276. And then we can blab. and get into stuff. And for those of you who might be new to the show, wondering it's about. I'm a Christian apologist, which means I defend the Christian faith.

I've been doing so I started studying this about 46 years ago, so I've been doing it a while. Anyway. There you go, if you want to give me a call. You can also send an email to info at carm.org, info at C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. Put a subject line, radio comment or radio question, and we can get to you.

Not hard to do. And uh we get to those sometimes where it had dead deadtime and Friday, a lot of times on Fridays, you know, because People are out doing stuff on Fridays. And like I said, the phone number is 87720722. 7-6, let's get to Alan from Virginia. Alan, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, Matt, how's it going? Oh, it's going, buddy. It is going. Yep.

So what do you got?

So one one thing I uh I thought about recently was where was Jesus after he died? on the cross for those three days. Right. I remember hearing, I don't know if you said it or not, that he didn't go to hell at that time. But he maybe went to Abraham's bosom or went to be with the father immediately.

Or something. Right. Yeah.

So I'm really I'm leaning on the camp. that he did not go to. Uh hell, because he ma man there's versus like today you for like the thief on the cross, today you'd be with me and um And paradise. Right. And there is also the it is finished.

So I I feel like him going to hell would mean there's more tony work to be done. You know what I mean? Yes, that's one of the false doctrines taught by several people in the positive confession movement. Joyce Meyer taught it. I've.

I can't make sh I can't remember for sure who else taught it. Uh it's either Kenneth Copeland and or Hagen. Oh. One of those. I can't.

I'm pretty sure. But definitely. Joyce Meyer taught it, and that's a damnable heresy. It denies the sufficiency of the cross.

So. He went to hell after atoning on the cross. Is that what you're saying? and finish the atonement in hell. but he suffered there at the hands of Satan and finished atonement.

That's the damnable piracy.

Okay. And so um When it says he went to hell in the Creed, it just means into the grave. It doesn't mean the place of torment.

So, there are theories about what happened in that place and time. And. Yeah, uh I can only tell you the one I lean towards, which means, you know, maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. But it looks like, according to Luke 16:19 through 31, Lazarus and a rich man, and they went to paradise, or he went to paradise. And Richman was in Hades.

in torment, but La uh Lazarus was in a good place. It's paradise.

So some think. That was the holding place of those who died before the atoning sacrifice of Christ. occurred. And that once When Jesus died, he then went there. He went there and led captive a host of captives.

as it says in Ephesians 4, 7 through 9. And then some think also in 1 Peter 3 5, 18 through 20, that Christ died once for all for the just for the unjust. And he went was made alive in the Spirit. in which he made proclamation to the spirits now in prison Who are disobedient as patients of God. That does not seem to be a redemptive work.

but an informative one on the demonic forces why they're in such bad trouble.

Okay. Mm-hmm.

So what are the differences between Hades Shield and Abraham's bosom? I wish you hadn't asked that question because I don't have a great answer. Um There seems to be overlapping between them. And I have an article on it. uh on carm.

And I remember writing it. And not being able to be definitively clear on what their difference was.

So, Hades, Gehenna. And uh there we go. And so I did it on Hell, Gehenna, and uh wrote it back in 2 2018. And so oh, that's a different article. I've got a lot of I've wrote so many articles.

So there's Hades, Gehenna, Hell, there's Tartarus, there's different ones, Sheol, and they just seem to generically describe the idea that People went to a bad place. holding Ogahenna. Is spoken of in Chronicles and Jeremiah Hades. I'm looking at my article now: What is Hell? Written in 2008.

Uh Hades uh Is only occurred in the New Testament. Sheol occurs in Genesis and Numbers. And um And so there seems to be an an overlapping of those things.

Okay. Okay. Do you um where where the where the dams go that aren't uh The devil and uh Demons, do they all go to the same place, or is there a particular for the devil and demons. That's a good question, too. Tartarus is what comes to mind.

Tartarus is. Uh Because it says in 2 Peter 2:4, God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell. and I believe the word hell there is uh for Tartarus. cast them into Hiltarto Roto. And So, in Greek mythology, it was a deepest abyss of Hades.

It was the the worst of the worst.

So there seems to be some something to that. That there are angels who are in that really bad place because they're really bad, apparently.

So it's kind of like it's like Dante's Inferno. It's like layers of hell, in a sense, maybe. Yes. That was an interesting book. I read the whole thing once.

But yeah, that kind of thing.

Now, Hades is the realm of the dead generally and gives up its dead at the resurrection. Uh Gehenna is a final, apparently lake of fire. And then there's something I forgot to mention called the Abyss. And that's uh in Revelation 9 and Tartarus we just mentioned. There are Like I said, there are different theories.

And when I went through and I studied all this stuff, I could not come up with an. In my opinion, I could not come up with a a very distinct, precise definition. of each one. but just generally what they are.

Okay. All right.

Okay. Um, sorry, turn it. There's like background noise. I'm trying not to get on the radio. But uh so but the but the I guess the major point is that Jesus' atoning work was not finished in hell, it was atoned on the it was on the cross.

Absolutely correct. Anybody who denies that is is in serious error.

So yeah, there's the only yeah, it's that's that's it. It was on the cross.

Okay, because he said it to Calestie, it is finished. That is it.

Alright. Yeah.

That's true. I guess another fun thing is Do we know if the Leviathan is currently bound on Uh Uh On the earth, air quote, you know, because obviously it's supposed to be in the sea or the ocean or in some kind of deep thing.

Well, now it's uh. It depends what you're asking.

So Leviathan is spoken of in um In Job as one of the creatures that's on the earth that God had made. And it was big. And behemoth and Leviathan.

So if you had to- I kind of thought of it as like an underwater dragon or something like that, kind of. Yeah, it seems to be something like that. Personally, I believe that they're dinosaurs. That's what I think they were. because this idea that dinosaurs you know, sixty, eighty million, hundred million years difference, I don't I don't buy it.

I don't buy the long earth, the old earth model. I've done enough study to know that there's there's a lot of problems with that.

So I have no problem at all with the idea of Of those beings were those creatures, were one land-based, one water-based. I think one of the theories was that there was some idea that it was like an alligator or a crocodile for the land-based one. Or or no, actually I think some people think that there was like a crocodile or alligator for like the Leviathan. I'm like, that doesn't make any sense with the fire stuff. Right.

And there was another one for like the hippo or something. Yeah, it doesn't work. One of them breathes forth fire, one of them has scales that you cannot uh bring down with a javelin. You can bring down a crocodile and a hippo with a javelin. you just hit him in the right spot.

But here, you know, the back of it Max. Yeah.

The bones are like a bronze. You know, if you battle it, you will not forget it. Um the tail uh moves and s causes the deep to surge. I mean it's it's describing something humongous. It is.

So, okay. And there are anecdotes around the world of people uh describing uh dinosaurs. I mean, you know, real. They describe it. Jungle people.

And I've heard of this in the 1800s, 1900s, that there's several accounts of them. Saying, oh, yeah, you know, they point out in the jungle, that's where a picture of a dinosaur to go, that's where that is out there. You know, that kind of thing.

So I remember hearing something about a scientist in like in the deep ocean where there was like didn't have anything to explain the sudden extreme rise in temperature for a short period of time that would that would then went away and stuff like that?

Some people would be like, maybe it was Leviathan, maybe not. Yes, thermoclines happen. But yeah, it's just there's a lot of conjecture. There's a lot of conjecture.

So we don't know for sure, but there are films. That I've seen, I can't verify they're authentic, but apparently there's a film of a large-bodied fish. like uh eighty feet. Uh it was you can tell a fish from a whale because a whale's fin goes up and down where a fish goes back and forth. And it was going a back and forth figure like 80 feet long by outside down in the water, but you could just see it.

And you got some film of this thing moving. There is stuff like that, you know. But who knows? And if you want to see Bigfoot and Neanderthals, you just go to Washington, D.C. They're all over the place.

Okay. Yeah.

All right.

Okay. All right, brother.

Sounds good.

Well, I'm not going to take too much more of your time, Matt. I appreciate it.

Alright, man. God bless.

Okay. All right, okay.

Well, now if you want to give me a call, we have two open lines, 8772072276. Kyle from North Carolina, welcome. You're on the air. Hello, can you hear me? Yes I can.

Yes I can. What do you got, buddy? I wanted to say first, I appreciated the EO debate that you did the other day. I thought maybe if there was more cross examination, it would have been better, but I enjoyed it. Yeah, and you know, why did he not want to cross-examine me?

Because I cross examined him and did and in my opinion And Brian from Texas wants to talk about it too, debate. He's up next. But in my opinion, he when I was asking him questions in the cross-exam, I thought he was trying to run the time out. I don't know if you yeah, that dry thought. Yeah.

Yeah, so anyway. Yeah.

You know, I want to get I wanted to dig more EOs, East Northwood Docks.

So we'll see what happens. Oh yeah. But uh My question was about Matthew seven, six. Yeah.

How do you apply that in youth discernment as to when they're the dogs or when they're the swine?

Well, that's a tough one. Hey, hold on, man. We've got a break, right? We'll be right back, folks, after these messages. If you want to.

Give me a call. We have an open line, 877-20722. 7-6, she'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, you got to wait because we have no open lines right now. Let's get back on with Kyle from North Carolina. Kyle, welcome. You're on the air.

Hi, thank you. I was just talking about how to discern who are the dogs and who are the swine and how you apply that to your evangelism. Yeah, it's a tough one. I regularly come across people that are obviously very difficult. And obstreperous, mocking.

So, what I'll do is just give them.

Some time. And it's subjective. Then I'll just say, okay, I'm done. I'm done talking to you. I've given you an answer.

You are being recalcitrant. You are insulting, or whatever it is. that I see that I j I'm just done, and that's it. And then I move along. And then they'll often mock me.

Oh, you can't handle it. You know, just go away. And that's what you got to do.

Okay. But you you do give them the gospel or you talk about scripture with them a little bit. It depends. I mean, it the best is to get in the gospel, but not sometimes it's just not It just doesn't flow into it in its right.

So there are ways to get through that, but I do like to give that gospel.

So I am trying to do it more and more. But still. Yeah, that's what it is, you know.

Okay. So that's a hard one. It's a hard one. When do you do it? Yeah, I don't know exactly.

I'm sure I belonged to it. Yeah.

And then I had one other quick question, if you don't mind. Sure. Uh just about um maybe don't know off the top of your head, but maybe a top five or top ten books that you recommend. For what? For uh just a Christian.

Well, it's a yeah, just a Christian that the most useful maybe for you. For what part of the Because I've I've read so much over the years that uh I'm not sure which aspect I heard you uh I I heard you talking about um of Poet and Peasant and Through Peasant Eyes. And I found that book really helpful. And I haven't read, I haven't heard anything like that. And then you were talking about a devotional From one of the reformed divines, and you didn't go, so maybe what kind of a devotional would you recommend?

Well, that's what's devotional as reading of someone who's really good as Jonathan O uh John Owens. He's really good. And so I could just recommend right off the top. Is uh just re recommend John Owens. And there is um Let's see.

Uh The Pursuit of Holiness by Jerry Bridges. That's a good book too. I don't like it though. I don't like it because it convicts me too much. One of the things, you know.

So, yeah, there's some good books in in a variety. I've read lots and lots and lots of stuff over the years. And I have my my online library is like over a thousand books or something like that. And I've given away two or three thousand books.

So I just, you know, a lot. Yeah.

Okay. All right.

Well, thank you very much. All right, brother.

God bless, man. God bless.

Bye-bye.

Alright. Great.

Now, let's get to Brian from Texas. Brian, welcome. You're on the air. Hello, brothers. Hello, brothers.

Good to hear you. This a couple of questions and just give a little context about the your EO debate. James White in a recent one of his videos said Uh he read from Pseudodionesis. And then he asked anybody, like in the chat and stuff in the YouTube chat, to say if anybody recognized it. And then he said, hey, this comes from pseudodionesis.

And he goes, this is why I think the EO is so hard to understand for Western Christians. because they base so much of their theology on the Via Negativa. Do you agree with him in his assessment there? I have no idea. I haven't studied it, so I couldn't even begin to make a comment.

Yeah, okay.

Okay. And then another thing is, if you were able to ask, I believe the guy's name was Kevin. I can't remember the last name, maybe Hughes, the guy that you debated the other day. Yeah, yeah. If you were to ask him, yeah, you might have done it Saturday.

I just watched it today on YouTube. But if you were able to ask him some more questions, if you had more time to do that, what would be some of those questions? Because I saw you taking notes off his presentation.

So what would have been some of those other questions that you'd asked him?

Well, one of the things I wanted would want to get into is how can the Eucharist, from his view, be c correct if the material substance is changed But it does not have the necessary attributes or necessary properties that go along with the essence. It's logically impossible for that to occur. That's one thing. Or defend from Scripture your I uh your East Orthodox priesthood. Can you defend it from the from the scriptures?

And it's not there either. There's lots of things that could have gone into. But I thought it was interesting that he just didn't want to cross-examine me. I've never had that happen in a debate. Yeah, I was surprised when I saw that as well.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was surprised as well. Yeah, he just said no, he's done. I'm like, wow. I was looking forward to him asking me questions because I was going to go back into it. But let me ask you an opinion.

Did you think he was? I think so. I think he was trying to waste time. When I would ask him a question, he'd give me these long answers. I don't think he wanted me to cross-examine him very much.

That's the impression I got. Yes, yes, he could he I don't know I don't know I know you mentioned that you thought he was wasting time. I think that he just did not want to answer your question. And so he would just say whatever he could. to respond to you, but not really answer your question.

That was my impression. Yeah, I I think so. In other words, he he didn't want to be he didn't want to He didn't want to be to admit that we're granted belief and things of that nature. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, that's possibly what it was.

He was. in my opinion, ill-prepared for that. The issue of it. And then when I asked him, I said, the faith that God grants, Philippians 1:29, that's in Jesus, John 6:29, is that true faith? You know, yeah.

Is it enough to justify us in and of itself? And what are you going to say? You know, because the Bible says, having therefore been justified by faith.

So, therefore, it has to be the case that you're justified by faith, the faith that God grants. And since he affirmed that baptism is not always required, then it is not the element, it's not the thing that saves. Faith is, because without baptism, you have to have faith, and people are saved by faith and faith without baptism.

So the common instrumental cause is faith. And when I asked him, the instrumental cause, he went, God's grace. He wanted to stay away from faith. You know, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Hey, I I I the with the EO that there it's kind of it's weird the people that they say like you know that are saints 'Cause I remember once I they I was just looking at some of the stuff that they were teaching. And they had this lady who was like basically a desert hermit. that she just she never even actually went into a church. But basically she paid obeisance to like a a portrait of the Virgin Mary. and then went out and lived in solitude.

And they said just because, and I can't remember this saint's name or something, what they say her name is, but just because I think it's Mary of the Desert or something like that, but just because she just paid obeisance to that one saint, they Yeah, you know, made her a saint and somebody that they prayed to and everything. And I'm like, stupid. You know, she didn't, she wasn't baptized. We got a break, buddy. We got a break.

We got a break now. Here you go. If you want to hold, hold on, or otherwise drop off. We'll get back to you either way after the break.

So sorry about a bit of a heartbreak here. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hey, everybody, welcome back to the show. Hope you're enjoying it so far. If you want to give me a call, we have two open lines: 877-207-2276. Let's get on with James from Toronto. Hey, James, welcome.

You're on the air, brother. Hey Matt, how's it going, man? Oh, it's going. It's going fine on this Monday.

So what do you got, buddy?

Okay. I was just wondering your personal interpretation, or what interpretation do you hold to for John 3, 5 to 6?

Well, I'm glad you asked that because of late I'm changing my position, it looks like. I used to I used to I still think there's a good argument for It to be the water is the water of the womb, but I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that the water is a symbolic reference to the Word of God, to the Scriptures. That's what I'm thinking. It's not baptism. Uh but I'm thinking of those it's it's one or both the other.

What I was saying, okay. Is is there any way you could uh explain the um Is your second reasoning you gave? Explain the what? You gave a two interpretations. Is there any way you could explain the second one, how you came to that conclusion?

Yeah, just by looking, because I had to examine things, and no one forced me, no one prompted it. I was just going through stuff and. Uh And I started looking at, and not at church fathers, but I started looking at how the words are used and how Ezekiel 3. Ezekiel 36. When Jesus is referencing what looks like a reference to 36.

That's what seems to be, and I started thinking about it. And 36, 25 through 27.

So that's where I'm leaning towards the issue of the water. Because the washing of the water of the word, Titus 3:5, and there's other places.

So I think that's a very good position to hold, okay?

Okay, I'll take that, my brother. I appreciate you.

Okay, so what church do you go to? Um r right now I I don't really um I'm kinda like non-denominational.

Okay. I kinda. I I grew up I grew up in the oneness Pentecostal background.

So I kinda transitioned off. I hope it got out of that because that's a cult.

So, what do you think? What's up with John 3? I'm just curious why you're asking. If you don't mind, you don't have to answer, but I'm just curious. Yeah, no, I I was in conversation with a couple of different people and um just wondering uh if you know what it means myself, my friend, you know, just these things are hard to think about and hard to understand.

So it's good to get other people's perspectives. And I've been listening to you for a while, so it's just wondering yours.

Okay. Oh, but but since I got you on the line here, is there any way uh you can um Uh give me your interpretation on Daniel. seven, thirteen to fourteen, like in terms of if that's already been fulfilled? I kept looking in the night visions. Behold, with the clouds of heaven, one like the Son of Man was coming, and he.

King of the ancient days was presented before him, and he has dominion, glory, peoples. I don't know if it's been done yet because it's been a while since I've looked at Daniel. And to know if it is A future one. or if it's describing something past in the in the uh spiritual realm.

So I couldn't give you a really solid answer at the moment, okay?

Okay, I I respect that. Thank you. Thank you for your time, my brother. Sure, man. God bless, buddy.

Okay. There's okay.

Alright. See, folks, if I'm not sure about something, I don't want to say it. And even though I've read these things before. you know Doesn't mean to remember all of it. Man, there's so much to know in the Bible.

Let's get to Scott from Spokane. Scott, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, how's it going? It's going, man, it's going.

So what do you got there? Yeah, I just had a question, but but just before I get to that, could you just let me know or remind me that two callers ago was talking about a debate you had with somebody. Who was he talking about? I had a debate on Saturday. One o'clock Eastern Time, I debated a guy named Kevin Hughes, the East Orthodox person.

who used to be a Calvinist, uh that's what I understand, and then he became a uh Eastern Orthodox guy. And um we debated uh it's a two-part debate. Can water baptism save? And the other one was, Can faith alone save? Where could I find that?

Oh, I don't know. Ministry to Muslims. Has it or just look it up, you know, and you can check it out. But he actually insulted me a little. And uh he said, Cool.

Um call me Eric.

Okay. Oh, what's that? I would say he called me arrogant and then it And he actually said at one point, you're living up to your last name. I'm like, what? It's like, wow.

Yeah, it was bad. Anyway, Adoff.

So anyway, my question pretty generally was just you know, and I take this from the account of the rich man and Lazarus, but do you believe based on the verses in that text that in heaven we'll be able to see hell? From a distance? Probably not. I I don't think so. Oh, and what would it mean to see?

Because Like, I'm a hundred miles from a city, and if I were on a mountaintop, could I see it on a straight line? In the atmosphere? Probably not. What about space?

Well, we can see in space, we can see a great distance. But does that mean hell has to be out in space someplace?

So just the kind of questions we really don't have answers to. I don't believe we'll personally don't believe we're going to see hell. I believe it's going to be cast out into outer darkness as the scriptures imply. It'll be so far gone. And that's where the unbelievers will be for forever.

Yeah, because beyond that, it just makes it even harder because it's just hard to understand the whole. Difference between heaven and Abraham's bosom. And, you know, these things, it's very hard to. Dissect that stuff.

So Yeah. And I guess that's what lends to, you know, on the flip side, it's probably where the Catholics get the. Um The waiting place, uh can't remember what it's called. Yes, yes. Yeah, they get it because they don't stick to scripture and because traditions creep into their false religion, their apostate false religion, and so they believe these things.

Yeah, that that's that's why it's not it's not in the Bible. Yeah.

What's always blown me away about the Roman Catholic Church is How, on everything except the Trinity, they're literally backwards to what the Bible says in almost every category. I know. Isn't that interesting? It blows my mind. Yeah, they're good with the Trinity.

They're good with that. And the hypostatic union and the resurrection. They're really good. But they blow it when it comes to s uh salvation. Uh the Eucharist, they turn it into an idol and they worship and serve Mary.

Just insanity. What they do. Yeah.

But this is it. You know, it just.

Well, and uh Yeah, they confuse the externals uh and the internals, that's what I I say. But anyway, that's another argument. But yeah, bad stuff, bad news, bad, bad news.

Okay. And it seems to be ever growing, you know? Yeah.

But it is, unfortunately, I think it's part of the apostasy prophesied in Scripture. I do too. Yeah, in Second Thessalonians two and uh first Timothy four.

So doctors of demons, um I was going through literally, uh, was it what when was that? Saturday night? Yeah.

Anyway, I can't remember.

So I was going through some stuff on on the apparitions. And I was, in fact, maybe I'll do it after the break. I'll read some apparitions that are in the Catholic stuff. And I was saying to this one guy, I said, Look, these are demonic manifestations. He was a Catholic.

He was very polite, too. We had a good intellectual discussion, very polite, and I really appreciated that. And I still do. He was a really great guy. And I'd say this, and he'd respond to the content, and he didn't insult me or anything.

Very nice discussion, which is rare. But at any rate, so I read some apparitions, and he was defending them. And maybe I'll go through them. after the break from Guadalupe and Patama. Because they're they're demonic.

Okay. So under payment.

So, yeah, after this show ends, I'll go check out that debate too. But, anyways, that's basically all I got. Hope you're doing well. By God's grace, you know, miss my wife. I'm starting to really start to get lonely now, but uh Yeah.

Almost six months and, um Yeah, you know, it's just what it is until death do his part. And uh There you go. Yeah, well, just know it. We were praying for you, man. We've ever since, especially when your wife died, you know?

So. Yeah, appreciate it. I'm strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. He's given me plenty to do, and I have so much to do. Uh that I'm going to serve him in so He's given me health.

Even though I'm pushing 70, I'm still able and active. And by God's grace.

So praise God. You know, praise God. A lot of people praise Him for. There you go.

Okay. Well, I will talk to you soon. All right, brother.

God bless, man. God bless.

You too. Bye-bye.

Yeah.

Yeah, those of you who don't know, my wife passed away in late November. Due to a long illness that just culminated, and she was gone. She's with the Lord Jesus, praise God. And, you know, it's tough getting. A little lonely, getting a little lonely now in a big house by myself all the time.

And I do have a cat. I've two cats, one of them outside all the time, but the other one Needy. He's a needy cat. He will sit next to me and he will go to sleep on my chest and he wants me to pet him.

So that's my life now. Hey, there's the music. We're right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, whatever, and welcome back to the show. And if you want to give me a call, you can, 877-207-2276.

Okay, I was talking about this Catholic stuff just before the break. With Scott, and I'm going to read six quotes that are official. The Roman Catholic Church says they're officially Mary. What I'm going to do is read three from Guadalupe from 1531 and then three from Fatima in Portugal in 1917. And I'm going to read them slowly.

These are official. and the six, in my opinion, Demonstrated progression. towards uh apostasy and blasphemy. And the Catholic Church has no discernibility. To be able to recognize truth from error.

And that it officiates or says that these are officially Mary, in my opinion, is one of the proofs for its apostate condition.

So here we go. 1531, Guadalupe, Me Mexico, appearance to Don Diego. These are the words of the apparition. I have them on my website. You can go and see the documentation, the links, and everything.

It says this. First, the apparition, notice I don't call it Mary, but the apparition says, I want you to know for certain, my dear son, that I am the perfect and always virgin Mary. All right.

Oh, I get a yawn coming up. Oh man, won't quite get there. Uh so Uh the apparition identifies it as itself as Mary. Then the second apparition says, I am truly. your merciful mother, yours, and all the people who live united in this land, and of all the other people of different ancestries, my lovers who love me, those who seek me, those who trust in me, Here I will hear their weeping bitter complaints, and heal all their sorrows, hardships, and sufferings.

Now, obviously, the problem here in the second apparition in Guadalupe, Mexico, 1531, is that the apparition says. Uh He says, My lovers who love me, those who seek me, those who trust in me. We are not to seek Mary, but to seek Jesus. God is faithful through whom you're called into fellowship with his Son, Christ Jesus. 1 Corinthians 1:9.

Simple. I could just see a child At the apparition, or people talking, it's Mary's apparition, it's Mary, Mary apparition. And it says, You know, seek the apparition, seek them, love me. And I know that child with the Bible goes, but doesn't it say that? Supposed to seek Jesus?

To me it's that simple. To me, it's that simple. Yeah.

And then the third one is uh from Guadalupe, Am I not here, I who am your mother? Are you not under my shadow and protection? Am I not the source of your joy? Are you not in the hollow of my mantle, in the crossing of my arms? Do you need anything more?

let nothing else worry you or disturb you.

So the apparition points to itself, The lovers who love the apparition. Oh, excuse me. Those who seek the, you know, said supposedly Mary, the apparitions impersonating Mary. But how would you know it was Mary? How do you know what she looked like?

Anyway. And, you know, seek me, those who trust in me, those who love me. And. Are you not under my protection? Do you need anything more?

Yeah, we need Jesus. My protection.

Okay, now I'm going to read three from Fatima. This occurred in nineteen seventeen. And uh The first one on may thirteenth, nineteen seventeen Are you willing to offer yourselves to God to bear all the sufferings He wants to send you as an act of reparation for the sins by which He's offended, and for the conversion of sinners? This is a heresy, obviously, because it says you make reparations for the sins by which God's offended. No, you don't do that.

Jesus did that on the cross. We don't repair our sins. And I was talking to a Catholic about this recently. And uh He would just give me excuses.

Well, you know, if you offend someone, you have to go and say sorry and things like, ah, jeez. And so they just try and excuse this. It's really bad. But notice the progression, okay?

So, the progression identifies itself, and then you have to love the apparition. Then, you're under the protection of the apparition, you don't need anything more than that, and then you have to make sufferings for the sins by which God's offended. Make things right by your suffering. Oh, gosh, it's horrible. Here's the second one from Fatima.

I will take Jacinta and Francisco shortly. There were two children. They did die soon afterwards. But you will stay here for some time to come. Jesus wants to use you to make me known and loved.

He wishes to establish a devotion to my immaculate heart throughout the world. I promise salvation to whoever embraces it. Wow.

So now the apparition is saying that Jesus wants the world to have devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Now Jesus says, Come to me, all who are heavy laden. I will give you rest. Matthew 11:20, 28. In 1 Corinthians 1:9, God is faithful through whom you're called into fellowship with his Son, Christ Jesus. No place in Scripture does it say go to Mary.

It just doesn't say it. You go to Christ. He's the one we need. But this apparition is saying that it promises salvation to whoever embraces devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. It just.

It just It's from the pit. It's from the pit.

Now check this one out. This is uh the the final one I'll read until get to the caller. Sacrifice yourselves for sinners and say often to Jesus, especially. Whatever you make a sacrifice. O Jesus, it is for the love of Thee, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for the sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

So now the apparition wants sacrifices. to itself. This is demonic. And I've studied enough cults to know that in varying types of of cults, in the occult in particular, uh the demonic forces that manifest and imitate people and whatever uh and imitate yeah, they a lot of stuff, they want sacrifices. They very frequently want sacrifices offered.

And so uh Oh man, okay, boy, what sorry about that, folks. There's quite a yawn there. But this is obviously demonic, and the Catholic Church says it's really Mary, and they can't even tell the difference.

So I'm going to finish this up by reading 11 things. That to the Bible says. And I have the references for every statement, like this. Jesus bears witness of himself, John 8:18, John 14, 6.

So, I have references like that to each one of these statements, but I won't read all the references because, you know.

So Jesus bears witness of himself Jesus' works bear witness of himself. The Father bears witness of Jesus. The Holy Spirit bears witness of Jesus. The multitudes bear witness of Jesus. The prophets bear witness of Jesus.

The scriptures bear witness of Jesus. The Father will honor us if we serve Jesus. The Father wants us to fellowship with Jesus. The Father tells us to listen to Jesus. And Mary said, His mother said to the servants, Whatever he says to you, do it.

That's what she said. Whatever Jesus says, you do it. Jesus has come to me He never says go to a woman. of Mary. It doesn't think it was mutter.

Come to me. Yeah.

So this is this, when you have the scriptures as the authority. and you believe what the scriptures teach. Then you won't be duped by the demonic manifestations and deceptions that occur like this.

Okay? Simple, simple, simple. Believe God's words. All you got to do, believe it. Use it as the measuring stick.

And you'll be able to check every spirit against it. Let's get to Christopher from North Carolina. Christopher, welcome you on the air. Hey, uh can you hear me? Yes, I can.

What do you got now?

Okay. Um So My thing is this. I was raised in the in the church and I'm still trying to like find my way into decreasing or trying to learn more about it and that go But The thing that kind of like came up to me was I was talking to somebody. Um They they tell me that they're Christian. But then they tell me that they're spiritual.

And It's like they're separating the two. And they say they still believe in God, but they are spiritual.

So I'm just trying to get an understanding.

Well it depends between the two what it depends on what they mean. It depends what they mean. If you're talking to an individual who says that, what does that person mean by, and spiritual?

So if I was talking to the person, I'd be saying, well, okay, you're a Christian and you're spiritual. What does that mean? What does it mean you're spiritual? Generally, when they say Christian and spiritual, it means that they're not really Christian, generally. But they might be.

So you have to ask questions. You've got to find things out and you've got to learn. And that's what I would do. And see that. But sometimes when people say they're spiritual, they don't really follow Jesus.

They just have their own spirituality and they want to follow what they feel because that makes them spiritual. That's most often what that is.

Okay? Here. Hmm. Gotcha, gotcha.

Okay, yeah, I I just wanted to know the other thing because there's my every time I hear about it It just seems like they're just like they're separating the two. Like they don't follow the principles, but. They still believe in God, but just like all the, I guess, spirits around the world are something like that. That's correct. That's correct.

What I tell people, generally speaking, is just Ask more questions and see what they say and be Be very careful because there are a lot of deceivers out there.

Okay? There are a lot of deceivers.

Alright. Yeah.

Gotcha.

Well, I I appreciate it. All right, brother.

Well, God bless.

Okay. Perfect. Yeah.

Okay. Man, all of a sudden, man, I got yawns hitting me left and right. Yeah.

All right, so um Someone sent me a paper on transubstantiation, and during the break, I was going through it. I won't be able to comment on it. But I've been raising an argument against the Catholic view of transubstantiation, where the elements. of the bread and wine change into the body and blood of Christ. In their essence or their substance, but their properties don't go along with it.

And that's an impossibility. It cannot happen. And so, for example, a circle has a necessary property or essential property to it called roundness. You cannot separate roundness from the circle. You can't take away roundness from a circle and then say that it's round or say it's a circle.

And so you can't transfer the essence of something and remove the essential properties.

So, God, for example, is holy. 1 Peter 1:16, be holy, for I'm holy.

So, holiness is a necessary attribute of God. You can't say God is not holy, and you can't separate God's holiness from His own nature. It's just impossible. What they'll do, the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics, is I read up on their position, is that the very nature of the bread becomes the flesh of Jesus, and the wine becomes the blood of Jesus.

So these are physical necessities.

Now they'll say the divinity is there also, but you can't weigh divinity and you can't test divinity.

So we're stuck with the issue of looking at the materiality of this. And so when we do that, we don't see any necessary properties to the essence. It's like someone saying that this thing over here, the essence of circledness is here, but you look at it and there's no roundness at all. But they say, but no, the essence of the circle is right over there. and you look and and there's no it's not round or anything.

You go Well, it's a square or it's a triangle. What are you talking about?

Well, the essence is there. And the illogic makes it impossible. I've been bringing this up and I'm reading an article on this and we respond to it. And I write an article on it in response to an answer to that. We'll see how it goes.

There's the music. May the Lord bless you by His grace. We'll be back on here tomorrow. And Lord William, we'll talk to you then.

So I hope you all have a great evening, everyone. God bless.

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