Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Alrighty, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and... You listen to Matt's Look Live. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-2072276. I want to hear from you.

Give me a call. And you can also send an email to me easily. Enough eight seven I mean oh man. Um I sent an email to info at carm.org info at carm.org. Put in the subject line, radio comment or radio question, either one of those, radio comment or radio question, and we can get to it.

All right, let's get on the phone with Linda from North Carolina. Linda, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you, Matt. Thank you.

Thank you for all you do. Oh, well, you're welcome. I have two questions. from my great grandson, And he's not here right now. But I wanted to be sure that I gave him the correct answer in.

terms that a ten year old could understand. His first question he asked me, do you believe in cavemen? And I'm sure, you know, he'll want to know when they lived. uh in the in in the Bible And that's my first question. How do I answer him in terms that he would understand?

Um, look this he's you know, he's probably hearing some stuff from uh Evolutionary kind of a theory. Between you and me, evolutionarily, no, there's no such thing as these cavemen. Archaeologically, yeah, uh people lived in caves. People lived in caves, they lived in huts, they lived in the brush, they lived in trees. To live in caves.

They make a mistake of thinking that cavemen means their human ancestors. But think of this. What might have happened after the flood, Adam and Eve? I mean, excuse me, Noah and the family, they disperse. They have children pretty quickly.

Maybe they would have gone to different parts of the land. Where are they going to live? Hey, look, a cave. Let's go in there. It's a ready-made roof with a single entrance that's guardable.

So there's no problem at all with biblically. All right. I understand that.

Now,. These cavemen, the cave dwellers, if you look it up, it tells you during the Stone Age. Yeah, don't don't believe everything. Look look let me tell you something. I have.

I'm going to do this right now. I'm going to show you something here. I'm going to open up my file. I don't have a computer or a smartphone, so I can't go online to look up anything. That's okay.

It would be helpful just to tell him How soon after the garden, the fall of Adam and Eve, Could I tell him? Caveman. were living in caves. But they were just ordinary people. Yeah.

wherever people would have gone and moved to a new to a new place. as soon as they're having kids and and growing. and moving in different places to get food and animals, they're gonna live in caves. Gotcha. Just whatever.

Okay, then there's. Gotcha, I understand.

So then the the second question is I'm trying to remember exactly how he posed the question. I believe he was saying that Uh didn't People live. At the same time that Adam and Eve were living, and where did they come from? No, no, Adam and Eve were the first people, they had lots of children. and the children married each other.

Until Hungary. Because it was permissible at that time. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. All right. So that that's uh basically it. I think I know how to tell him in simple terms. um the sequence of that.

Thank you so much, and I'll be calling again. You're welcome and thank you. That's right. Another time. Bye-bye.

Okay, God bless. Bye. And rightly put, Aarid in the chat in Rumble said, We have cavemen today. They're called the Democratic Party. I would totally agree with that because they're not fully developed mentally and spiritually.

They're really bad off. And no Christian should be a Democrat if you understand what the Democratic Party stands for. Yep, I make statements like that, and I won't continue to defend it, etc.

Now let's get to the next longest-waiting person, Jermaine. Jermaine, welcome, brother. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. Today I want to discuss the once-saved, always saved debate in Christianism.

I see a lot of people take different sides. And I what prompted me to call you is I saw A man, I think he was using the argument for content, in my opinion, but he had a picture of Vodie Bockham. And uh John MacArthur. And he was refuting. the ones saved always save you, but I don't really hear the latter.

Which one of them was? I can't recall the gentleman's name. I can get it to you later, but just I was a little. ticked off it's it's easy to critique people when they're deceased and can't, you know, give a a defense, but I really wonder is part of the problem The phrasing, like, shouldn't it be if saved, always saved, versus once saved, always saved? Because I don't see anybody losing salvation if they're saved.

Right, I agree. It's just the OSAS, once saved, always saved. Once you're saved, you're in. And that's just the. What it means, if you are saved, it's the same thing.

Once you're saved, if you are saved, it's the same thing.

So, yeah, I hold to that position. Oh, that you cannot. Lose your salvation since God grants that we have repentance. 2 Timothy 2:25, He grants that. We believe in Jesus, John 6, 29.

He grants that we have faith, Lippians 1.29. He cancels our sin dead at the cross, Colossians 2.14. And Jesus says, the will of the Father is that he lose none, John 6, 39.

So I just don't see how it's possible for us to be lost. Jesus says he gives eternal life and he'll never perish. Jesus equates eternal life with never perishing. He says, I give it to you. You have it.

You'll never perish. That's how Jesus speaks of it. And John 5, 13, 1 John 5, 13 says, you can know you have eternal life.

So if you can know you have it right now, and Jesus equates it with never perishing, you ain't never going to perish, et cetera, et cetera.

So I think it's a very simple doctrine too. um uphold uh in scripture.

Okay. Because the reason I say it is because a lot of people, when I hear, I got saved, they point to an event And some of them, you know, not to sound too judgmental, I know. There's a good chance they're not actually Christian, but they went through a ritual. And that's where a lot of disconnect seems to come from. But It's I don't consider those people saved and I don't want to sound too uh To Raisy on the air.

Just mean, I know God ultimately knows who's saved and who's not, but. if someone's pointing to a specific Ritual they participated in, like they went to the altar and they, you know, raised their hands. Because I once heard a woman say she got saved twice. And I I was kind of perplexed and she was older than me, so I wanted to show, you know, proper respect, but I know what she was talking about. She means she went to the altar twice.

But that's the kind of stuff I think is worthy of debate because like if you're if you are saved, then why would you get saved twice? Right. And it's just a lot of people, unfortunately, just have bad theology. They just don't know.

So when I meet someone like that who says something like that, I just, you know, kind of smile, not condescendingly. I just, you know, may the Lord take that person and fix that person's bad theology sometime. And And work with it, or if there's an opportunity to help deal with it, then to do that. But, you know, there's a lot of people out there who just don't have good biblical theology, don't know what the truth is, and they say things like that. You just smile and say, Lord, you know, just fix him up.

Help 'em out so they they understand. Yeah. Alright. All right, good enough for me. Thanks, Matt.

Appreciate you. All right, man.

Well, God bless, buddy.

Okay. All right. God bless you now. Bye. All right, there we go.

And now let's see. The next longest person is Tom from Ohio. Tom, welcome. You're on the air. Great.

How's it going? I'm working on, let's see, it's called the Paradise. Remember the two robbers on the cross with Christ?

Okay, yes. And one of 'em he said, I'll be you will be in paradise. Right. Right. Is that paradise?

uh different from 2-7 Revelation. I'll let you glance over there real quick.

Okay, let me go to it. Uh he has an air that I'm here. Uh Okay, I will grant to eat a tree of life which is in the paradise of God.

So in Luke 16, 19 through 31, it talks about. The uh The rich man in Lazarus. And They went to Hades. And in Paradise, he lifted up his eyes. I think he was there like that in there.

Let me make sure. Looks 16. And uh Yeah.

Okay, anyway, it's Abraham's bosom, and some think that that is paradise.

Now, on the cross, you today will be in paradise. Then it seems to be a correlation between Abraham's bosom and paradise. Anyway, but you had a question, I think. I didn't know if I got your question, though. You own.

So, I'm sorry. I was trying to catch up with you. You said that. It is the same. It is the same.

Because Okay.

Okay. No, but go ahead. That's all right. My next question in that same Is uh I'm trying to remember that verse. It is pertaining Wupe Wen In Revelation, or not when excuse me, when God raptures, not raptures, when he uh Oh, goodness sakes.

What is it that he He takes them. He takes them out First, he gathers the wicked. He takes the wicked first, according to Luke. I mean, Matthew 13, yes. Yeah, he gathers the dead first.

Remember that? Oh, oh, oh, I know what you mean now. Yeah, this is in 1 Thessalonians 4, 16. The dead in Christ shall rise first, and we who rely on him shall look out together to meet him in the air. That mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's uh okay.

So, you wonder what that's about, or what? Yeah, I'm just trying to say is. When does that happen? Oh, when does the The it's the rapture that's preceded immediately by those who are um Who have died in Christ ahead of time, they get their resurrected bodies. This is concomitant with the rapture itself.

So the question is, when does that happen? There's three main views. pre-tribulation rapture, mid-tribulation and post-tribulation rapture. And most of Americans believe pre-tribulation rapture, which I think is unbiblical, but that's my position. Yeah, I know I listened to you yesterday.

I was talking to that one gentleman. But It almost seems like they're being held into. Are they in. Uh what do you call it? Uh The introduction.

Well, here's the thing. We don't know exactly. In Abraham's bosom of Luke 16, one of the theories is that the people who died in faith. Before the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ went to Abraham's bosom, it's a good place. and some equate it with paradise.

And so after Jesus was raised, and he went, it says in Ephesians 4, he led captive a host of captives as he ascended on high. We don't know what exactly it means, but some think it means he uh took empty paradise went to heaven. with them. before and then resurrected.

Now hold on we gotta break.

Okay hold on. Hey folks, we write back after these messages. You can give me a call at 8772. 072276. We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Tom. All right, Tom, boy, we had to kind of wrap it up there at that last break.

So, did that help? Anything more?

Well, the very last. is Uh Jesus on the cross. He's got he dies he's dead for three days. Where is he at? Where does he tra where he travels?

Does he travel to what? Hades? Or is he you know, 'cause he's gotta be somewhere.

So there's theories about what happened. And you go to 1 Peter 3:18. For Christ also died once for all. Just for the unjust, he might bring us To God, having been put to death in the flesh, He's made alive in the Spirit, in which Also he went and made proclamation of the spirits now in prison. who were disobedient in the times of Noah.

So, one of the theories based on this is that the intermediate state between Christ's death and resurrection is that he went to where the spirits were and proclaimed what was going on. Not preach the gospel so they could repent. but proclaim, this is what's going on, this is what's happening. That's one of the theories. And We don't know where that is.

We don't know what it is. We don't know how it works. In Luke 16, it talks about Abraham's bosom, and it's a place of it's a physical place where people go to After death, before the resurrection, before the crucifixion or resurrection, those who died in faith, that's one of the theories, they went there and it was a holding place, and it was a good place for them. but they could not enter into the presence of God, formerly in heaven, until the blood of Christ had been offered on the cross. The sacrifice.

At the resurrection, Jesus entered his body. And this is now the state of the new. Condition. But during those three days, one of the theories is that he went and made proclamation of the spirits now in prison, but also in Ephesians 4. It says, as I said earlier, That uh It says, when he ascended on high, he led captive a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.

And so this is out of Ephesians 4.8. And so some have Drawn some possibilities out of this. He led captive, a host of captives. Did he then, the question goes, did he then go down to this place, this holding place, paradise, Abraham's bosom, and then proclaim who he was, what he did, and then took them into heaven? Brought them up into heaven.

That's one of the theories about that. And so, in that sense, that paradise or that Abraham's bosom is now empty and will remain empty. When you talk about the paradise of God in Revelation 2, that's a different thing. And even though the same word is used, but it's called the paradise of God. and it's different.

So There you go.

Okay. Okay, well, that was that was going to ask you. That was Revelation 2:7. Two different paradises.

Okay, I got you. Is that correct? Yeah, it's possible that they are. See, I'm very, very particular about how God words things in Scripture. He will word something, and it's very important for us to pay attention to what He, the wording.

one word difference on a pattern can mean something. God's smart. He knows what he's saying and when he says it.

So that's why to paradise or to Abram's bosom, and then there's another one that says the paradise of God. The question is, are they the same or are they not the same? That's the question. Yeah, it's quite difficult to understand that sometimes, you know, his the way he speaks. you know, it's almost like it's different times or different uh He you know, we're taking here more, you know, physical.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a spiritual thing, absolutely. That's right.

Thank you for your help, Matt. You too. God bless. All right, let's see.

Next longest waiting is John from Denver. John, welcome. You're on the air. I Hi.

So, uh Many will say to me, Uh Lord Lord, you know the verse. Who does the will of my Father in heaven? Matthew 7:23. That's yes, many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, you want to prophesy, do these things get away from me. I never knew you.

Yep, 7, 22, and 23. Uh-huh.

Okay. So I can try to pretend to be good. And I can also use my resources to do good. But that's not quite enough, is it? No, that's why by faith you rely on Christ.

That's it, you're done, simple.

Okay?

Well, you do what you can, but you rely on Jesus. And you're and you're okay.

Well The point is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Yeah, by project.

Well, do you have a relationship with any of your friends? You have a relationship, right, with people you know? Right. Well, I have no friends. Um Sort of like you, my uh family is sort of estranged from me.

I'm sort of alone here.

Okay, so, but do you have any friends? Anyone you talk to? No, not really.

Okay, well, do you go to church? I don't, but I know you said that was important, so I'm going to do that. But I still don't think it's a good idea. Uh The Bible says, Don't forsake the gathering together, the people of God.

So you're supposed to do it. It's a good idea because God says so. All right. only because you said something. Is a good thing to do.

Not because I'll do it. Not because I'm doing it. But I think it's going to turn out good. Not because I said it, but because God says it. Look, let me give you some advice.

We've talked many times, and I'm cluing in about you. And you probably have you're probably on the spectrum. Of something. All right. And I would suggest As somebody here who's been diagnosed with Asperger's myself.

I would suggest that you go to a psychologist and get diagnosed. And it's very helpful once you know what something is going on. And he can generally give you things to work on and work with. That's one recommendation I have. And also I could strongly recommend that you start studying, of all things, body language.

Because when you're talking with people, as you say it won't work out well, that tells me you have social anxiety and social problems, skills, skill problems. One of the easy ways, it's easy but it's not easy. To get past this and through this, is the study body language so that you know when people are responding or not responding to how you are. It's very important. uh a great deal of communication is by body language.

That's what I did to compensate. I'm just opening up here and telling you.

So I still to this day pay attention to body language expressions. how long someone takes to breathe. what they do with their eyes, how fast they um blink. How slowly they blink, the head turns, the body sh shoulder blinks. I pay attention to all of it.

And I still do it because I did it for so many years to learn how to get past the social anxiety and the inability I had to communicate properly with people. Just as people have advantages and disadvantages, you work with what you've got. Just like I saw a video of a woman born with no arms, and she uses her legs. To do everything. And she gets along fine.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

So I would suggest that you go get diagnosed. I would suggest that you also study body language so that you can learn how to read people better, so you can learn how to direct your own words, your own body, because body language is very important, your own everything about this, and improve. You can, and you need to, okay?

Well, I suppose I agree with you on all of that. But uh well, a nice suit is very expensive. And you don't need to cover your clothes. You don't need a nice suit. People aren't interested in a nice suit.

They're interested in you.

Okay, well, here's a great break. I really agree. We got a break, John, so hold on. Be right back, folks, after these messages, please. Stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it's 877-207-2276. John, are you still there? Here. All right.

So you don't need a suit. You just need to have some decent clothes and you go to church. You sit and you listen and you watch and you learn and you study. But it should be people. Mm-hmm.

Study people. Look, I know. But you're saying this is very important that I'm there at the church. Of course, it is. God says so.

Hebrews 10:25. But Look, John. I know because I had to go through this when I was younger. I don't talk about it very often. But I've I I had no social uh skills.

I have Asperger's. I was extremely skinny. We went to m my dad moved, went to twelve different elementary schools.

So I didn't develop any social abilities, didn't have any time. and when I started to, we would move and leave.

So it was it it stunted my my uh my growth in a lot of ways. lots. And because of it, I developed um anorexia. which is rare among males.

Now I'm just telling you this because I understand what it is to go through things and to suffer because of it. and to learn how to how to overcome them. And the way to do this is you have to decide to do it. You study people. You study them and you study body language, I'm telling you, is exceedingly helpful.

You need to go get diagnosed. You need to go you need to go get diagnosed. It'll be very helpful. And a trained psychologist. There's nothing wrong with that.

Like, we go to a doctor, go to a psychologist.

Well, I have gone to psychologists, but it's hard to find.

Okay, and have they diagnosed you with anything? It's either yes or no. Have they diagnosed you with anything? Yeah. No.

The only time I was diagnosed was that I was uh in a state hospital, because that's not the case. I I made the judge angry and he sent me there for like a punishment. And the guy sat there, the psychologist, was like 30 minutes. He diagnosed me.

Okay, look, you I went on these drugs and they didn't do nothing. I would recommend that you get involved with the church. And you see, you ask God to open up the doors of the church for the people who can help you. Because you've called many times and. You know, there's a disconnect there with you, and you need to find the Lord in a newer, more healthy way.

And I'm just telling you that you can do this if you apply yourself. And don't use excuses not to.

Well, you're saying this is a very important thing to be among a congregation. with the pastor at the church. Just don't say a lot. If you're not confident, don't say anything. People say hello to you, just say hello back.

Don't say too much don't talk about yourself too much you talk about others. It's just basic stuff. You talk about others and you're not going to be able to do it. No, I really don't like it.

Well, that's too bad. I chose a church. I chose a church already. Too bad. Look, look, look, look, look, look.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Look, people say, I don't like this. I don't like this. I say, too bad. Grow up.

You do what you got to do as a man. You don't like it?

Okay, fine. Then what are you gonna do about it? Not do it because you don't like it? That th that's the behavior of children. Look, we're mature, we're adults, so make mature decisions and follow through with them.

And you can certainly adjust as you go forward. If you find that you're going to a church that is not working out for you, you can go to a different one. But the thing is, you need to be active. You need to be moving forward, brother.

Okay?

All right. Okay. Well, I think it's a good church. I just don't want to interfere. It's the main thing, but all right.

Then don't interfere. Just don't.

Okay?

So I can just sit back, be quiet. That's what I do, not say too much. That's what I do.

Okay, I go to church. I try to say anything because I can mess people up. That's why I don't go to Bible studies. When I go to church, I just sit there. I just sit.

But I'm not antisocial, and people say hello, and I say hello back and talk to people. Don't say too much. I don't talk about myself. Why talk about myself? Who cares?

Talk about them. Hey, how are you doing? And yeah, but that's a nice kid you got there. How old's the little baby there? Or, you know, and oh, is this your husband?

You know, whatever. Don't talk about yourself, okay?

Okay. Okay, if they ask, then give about yourself, then you give minimal information. Not because you're trying to be um secretive But just don't go on too long. That's all. Just say, oh, yeah, I name so-and-so, and here checking out new churches and just checking things out.

And that's it. You know, and and look on the I've known them for a long time. I'm just afraid to go there and interrupt what they're doing. That's all. Well, just don't bring a trampoline in the back and do trampoline flips while you're in the back during a sermon.

That would be disruptive, okay? And the pastor said the same thing. He said, come here, it's important. Yes, there you go. You've got a good pastor there.

So go talk to him and the elders. All right, brother? Thank you. All right. Yeah, folks.

I rarely mention all that stuff about my past. It's not about me because it's about I want people to call, we ask, I answer questions. But sometimes it's helpful when people know what others have gone through and survived and do well by God's grace. That they can rise above the condition. And I say to people: don't find excuses to not do.

find excuses to get around. Just do that. Uh And I don't know, she's 30-something, and she's had strokes and surgeries, and one side of her face and stuff doesn't work right. And I'm really inspired by her. I haven't seen a video of her for a few weeks, but She, you know, her one hand isn't working right.

And she finds ways to be positive and to be effective. I just, I don't know who she is, but man, it really was helpful. It's really nice to see that. It's encouraging. you know, I'm doing fine myself, but I'm seeing her going, you know what?

That's really encouraging to see someone like that. And we need that as people, don't we? Because, to be honest, ladies and gentlemen, we can't sit down with Jesus across the room from us and just ask him questions and look into his eyes. And it's hard. We want that personal relationship with them.

Well, to do that. You spend time like anybody. You spend time talking to them and you spend time listening. And that's what you do with Jesus. You talk to him in prayer and you listen to him as he communicates through the unction of the spirit in your heart, but always governed by the scripture, and you read his word.

Read what Jesus says and talk. And in that, you'll have fellowship with the Lord, and He will bless you. It's simple. don't find excuses not to. You find reasons to do.

Adults Adults, mature people. They refrain from excuse after excuse.

Now, sometimes there's legitimate reasons we can't do something. Granted, we got it. But you'll know when you're making excuses versus. Getting it done or trying to get it done, and if you try and get it done and you fail, that's okay. Welcome to the club because we're people.

Just don't find an excuse to do nothing and then give your life over to nothingness, because that is burying the talents and the abilities God has given you, burying them in the ground, and He will hold you accountable for them. Do something with them. Use what you have for God's glory and move forward by faith. And as you stumble, get up and go forward again. James from South Carolina.

Welcome, you're on the air. Good afternoon, Matt. Good afternoon. I truly enjoy listening to you, especially how you handle various different questions. That's that's actually A joy to hear that type of response.

I wish my wife was still alive so that you could call her up and tell her how great I am. You know, she wouldn't. She wouldn't listen to that. Yeah, okay, you could do that from Hot Wave 2, okay?

Okay, sounds good. Yes. But my question has to do I I'm a I'm a Pre-tribulational person. I'm a pre-millennial. I'm also young earth.

That's on me. My question, and I have studied, I've been I've been, well, let's see, I'm seventy years old.

Okay. I was lost 35 years. And I got saved on Father's Day. when I turned thirty five that year, and so I'm just now breaking even. Yeah.

Nope. That's awesome. Good for you. Breaking even. That's right.

Well, you're already ahead, but gotcha. Uh-huh.

Yeah. Yeah. So my question is God said, I know it, I think it's in Matthew, I'm not sure. Where he says that If a son asks his father for a piece of bread, Matthew 7. Will he give him a rock?

How much more will your Father in heaven Love you or do for you. Right. Right. So my qui and he's talking about the people who he saved. How much more will he take care of those?

It's in Matthew 7 and precedes that as judging others and then asking you seeking. Yeah, he's just giving wisdom. It's wisdom stuff. Beatitudes. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Right. And and um so my question is If that's exactly the case, Why would he let his children who are saved, who are righteous in his eyes, go through the hell that he's going to put the non-believers through?

Well that would be my question as Yeah. No lot. Lot and his wife went through, and his nephew, they went through the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. They were present in it. And we've got a break coming up, and I'll give you some more examples.

Okay, and what answers the question.

Okay, brother. Hold on now. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. We have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, all you've got to do is dial 8772-07-2276.

We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Alright, welcome back to the show. Let's get back with James. You still there, brother? Yes, sir. All right.

I'll tell you. The question was basically: during the tribulation period, why would God put Christians go through what was designed to punish the wicked, right? Actually, why would he let his children I mean, we're part of Christ, right? Yeah. Why would he put himself and so?

I know what you're going to say with lot, but Wasn't Lot taken out of the city with his family before it was destroyed, along with Zoar and a couple of other places? And it always kept through.

Next slide. It happened. No, the destruction happened around them. They were out of that one city, but it wasn't just.

Sod and Gomorrah that were destroyed. And also a lot of places, but they received from it. They were saved in it. They were in it. They were saved from the city.

Okay. Didn't they weren't they told not to turn around and look? They were still there. They were still there on the ground in the area where he was at. When it was when it was happening around when it was happening around them.

They survived.

So no one. He was there during the destruction of the wicked. Israel was there during the plagues upon the wicked people in Egypt. Israel endured through it. Joseph uh took the Jews in in Egypt and the famine that happened on the land of Egypt.

the believers, the true believers of God, went through it with them. In the destruction of Jerusalem, the Christians were present during this incredible persecution. that God allowed to occur on the Jews and others around them.

So the idea that God will just take us out. is not consistent with scripture.

Well, see, then then how do you fit in First Thessalonians. How do you fit in? Revelation 3. Hold hold hold on hold on hold on. You mean the entire book of 1 Thessalonians?

What do you mean? No, no.

Well, in each chapter of 1 Thessalonians, it does talk about a removal, but. But in chapter four.

Okay. It says, you know, he's Mm-hmm.

So here we go. Yeah, I know it. I know it well. I know you do. And I was also listening.

You know, I've listened to a lot of different preachers and teachers on various different sites. One of my favorite Bibles is my RC Spurl Bible.

Okay. So I've listened to Ladd and a couple of other people who have spoken about post-trib and no-trib, amillennialists, and that kind of stuff. And I look and I say, well, God says here, for God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation. Yeah, hold on, hold on. Yeah, that's ripped out of context constantly.

Wrath is justified. Yes, wrath is juxtaposed with salvation. Wrath is damnation. We're not pointing to damnation, but salvation. That's what the context is.

People make the mistake of thinking the word wrath means seven-year tribulation period. That's not what it says. It says he doesn't point us to wrath, but salvation. That's what's going on.

Okay. Yeah, it's a mission five nine and so Is this also misused then the same thing?

Well, I'm just saying I'm just asking because I've been taught something a little different then, and I was I understand you don't follow that. And so I wanted to know why ultimately, why would God put us Through that, when he says he's going to keep it, he says, Comfort yourselves with these words: what, that we're going to go through hell? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Okay, what you're doing, you don't realize what you're doing. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You're jumping from place to place really fast without examining the context. When that happens, then you get a constructed theology that's built on cardboard.

Okay. So like first I was only five nine. Death pointed to wrath, but salvation, the word wrath doesn't mean pre-tribulation, anything like that. It deals with the issue of wrath and damnation. It's juxtaposed, which was a Jewish method.

There's light and dark, good, bad, wrath, salvation. is called deduciposition in the Jewish mind. All right? And when it's you go to Romans 5, 9, much more having now then been justified by his blood, this deals with salvation. We shall be saved from the wrath of God.

The wrath of God is damnation. Right, we're justified, so we're saved, we're not going to experience that wrath of God. It's not about tribulation stuff. This is not about tribulation. Yes.

It's not about driving. See, you've been misled. I'm going to just tell you flat out. You've been misled to think. that wrath in this context means tribulation period.

It doesn't.

Now, let me show you something. You went to 1 Thessalonians 4. I'm going to show you something.

Okay. And w and it's good. It it talks about the rapture there, which is no problem, all right? We who are alive or main shall be caught up together and meet him in the clouds. No problem, right?

And he says, and he says, Yeah, then they come to the earth. That's right. And you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night, right? That's the rapture is, right?

Alright, now what I'm going to do... What? What's that? Hello? No, I was going to say, you said that.

He comes like a thief in the night. Yeah, that's what it says. But we're not going to be, but we're not going to be. surprised in that respect. Could We, what doesn't it say?

We are alive in your name. I'm not seeing, I'm looking at it.

Okay, the return of Christ is not something we're going to be ready for. If, by the way, it's a seven-year tribulation period and then the rapture occurs at a certain day, and seven years later, then you'll know exactly when Jesus comes back on that day. And the Bible says no one's going to know that day.

So the pre-rapture undermines that theology. But I'm trying to show you something here to get you to think. Because it's I'm trying to show you. The day of the Lord condemned a thief in the night is the return of Christ in the rapture. Right?

1 Thessalonians. I didn't know that. Yes. Right. Because it says in 1 Thessalonians 4, all right.

It says Betty. With a shout, the voice of the archangel, the trumpet of God, the dead in Christ will rise first. We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together amid the clouds to meet him in the air. That's the rapture. Therefore, comfort one another with these words that it's going to happen.

Now, as to the times and the epics, there's no chapter break in the Greek. In the original. It just goes on. As the times and the affects, you have no need of anything to be written to you, for you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief of the night. That's when Jesus comes back, that's when the rapture occurs.

A day of the Lord comes like a thief of the night, right? Yes. Yes. Now we go over to 2 Peter 3.10. But the day of the Lord come like a thief.

In which the heavens will pass away with roar, and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. That's the same day. The new heavens and new earth are made the same day as the return of Christ on the rapture.

So there's no seven-year tribulation, then, is there?

Well, Jesus is right. No, there is a tribulation. But Jesus says in Matthew 24: After the tribulation of those days, he will send out forth his angels and they'll gather the elect together from one end of the sky to the other. And Jesus says it, Matthew 24, after the tribulation, he says when the gathering occurs. specifically.

Yeah. And that's Matthew 24. Matthew 24, just read through Matthew 24. He says specifically, after. Yes.

Now. And when it says two men in the field, and one is taken, one is left. That's supposed to be the rapture, right? No, that's a judgment. Very good.

That's judgment. That's the judgment of good believers. That's the judgment of the wicked.

Okay. Now, I showed you.

So you said you're premillennial. I'm just going to throw something out at you: premillennial. That means a thousand years before the new heavens and new earth is when Jesus returns and the rapture occurs. Right? I believe so, yes.

Except that 2 Peter 3:9 says a new heavens and new earth occur, the day of the Lord come like a thief. But the Bible says the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night is the rapture. is when Jesus returns. They're the same day. They're the same day.

So, where is the literal 1,000-year reign? Where is it? If it's on the same day.

So uh the thousand year rain is the same day as when? The return of Christ for the rapture is said to be the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night. In 2 Peter 3:10, but the day of the Lord comes like a thief. in which the heavens will pass away, the new heavens and new earth occur. The day of the Lord come like a thief, And one says Devil comes like a thief in the night.

But there is no other phrase, the day of the Lord comes like a thief. The only two places that occur in the entire Bible, right there, the day of the Lord is one day. It's a single day, the day of the Lord. And I've written a big study on this. And it's the day of the rapture.

It's also the day the new heavens and new earth are made.

So you haven't you've not been taught the full scope of everything. Is chapter 21 of Revelation like no value then? Why would you say that? Why would you say that? I'm implying Revelation 21 has no value.

Where'd you get that from?

Well you saying there's no millennium. There's no thousand year rank. There's no literal 1,000-year reign. No literal. Because from the premillennial position, the rapture occurs a thousand years before the new heavens and new earth, but the scriptures suggest.

very strongly that they're the same day. I just showed you the verses for it.

Okay. Yes. What? I always thought that the rapture happens. Let me explain.

I understood that the rapture happens first. Then you have seven years of tribulation. Uh-huh.

And then after the seven years, You have the millennium reign of Christ. And then after that, the great white throne of God. Right? Yeah. I've come to know.

Now if it's different, I want to know. Good, then I can tell you where to go to look to find something that'll just destroy all of that. With scripture. You go to my website in carm.org. C-A-R-N.

Oh, I have it. I'm already. But didn't be around. What? And and look up an examination of this age and the age to come.

Just look it up. Go through what the scriptures say. All right. And To see, and you'll see, for example, the day of the Lord is also the day of the judgment of God, which is the judgment of the wicked, which is the resurrection, which is Jesus' return, which is also the rapture, which is, you know, and you can see it's all there. And you can go to there's so many places.

The pre-trib thing, I mean, it's okay if you believe in that's fine. But I mean, I just wondered because God isn't for confusion, so I'm just wondering, we have four, at least maybe five different And it's like which one is right. He's not the author of confusion. The pre-trib rapture pre-mil is the confusion.

Well, that was my point: that he says he's not the author of confusion, and I see five different. discussions of Various points are your free trick. He's not. This is a You're making logic mistakes. You made several so far.

Here's another one, okay? This basic. He's not the author of confusion. He writes it out. All you got to do is believe what he says.

But people have come along and twisted things or left certain things out. And say, see, here's a view, and then we disagree with different views. See, God's a problem now. No. He's not the problem.

He's not the other confusion. Read through it. Have you ever heard of the model? This age and the age to come. You ever heard of that?

That we should study.

Okay, that's what Jesus taught, and that's what Paul the Apostle taught.

Now, we gotta go because the music's coming on in like 10 or 15 seconds, okay?

So go check out that article and then call me back tomorrow and tell me what you like or didn't like, okay? All right? Okay. I truly appreciate it. I appreciate you too, sir.

Okay, God bless, brother. Bye-bye.

All right. Okay, ooh interesting stuff. I love discussing this stuff. And that's, well, I'll just say, I like discussing it. Hey, folks, I hope you enjoyed that.

I'll be right back. I mean, not right back. We'll be back tomorrow by God's grace. And may the Lord bless you. Have a great evening.

We'll talk to you tomorrow. Another program powered by the Truth Network.