Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, welcome to this show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're this the Matt Slick Live. Today's date is February 27th, 2026.

Now, I gotta tell you why I wasn't on the air yesterday. There's a real simple reason. They're putting in a new roof. My house is 21 years old, need a new roof, and they were banging and clanging and sawing and all that stuff. And I mean, it was loud.

And so I said, there's just no way because I'm up on the second story of my house, and they were just right over me and banging and all that.

Okay, so there you go.

So now I'm back on the air. If you want to give me a call, it is easy. 87720-72276. You can give me a call. I want to hear from you.

Give me a call. You can also, if you want, send an email to info at carm.org, info at carm.org, and put in a subject line radio comment or radio questions. And we can get to them, Lord willing, then. All right, all right, all right, all right. We have uh two callers coming, and uh I got a lot to talk about.

Look, some good stuff here happening, and um Some discussion I had last night. I'm going to go over a little bit of logic and some other things about some arguments, and we'll see. Anyway, let's get to no, no, no, none other than the famous. Jermaine from North Carolina. Jermaine, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, man, it's actually North California, Northern California. Oh, good, it says California. I was getting confused. Wait a minute, your main said California.

Is that the other guy?

Okay, so, yeah. That's right, buddy.

So what do you got, man?

Well, just um I so I joined a weekly Bible study with some family members and One of my relatives, she strictly holds on to Christians being able to lose their salvation. And I know we've talked about this numerous times. I think the Bible's pointing to you do not lose your salvation if you're truly saved, which she liked to use. Revelation 13, I guess the church of Laodicea, where Jesus is spewing. the lukewarm Christian down to their mouth.

Yeah. Or out of his mouth or or the or the church. I don't know how it's referenced, but I just wanted to hear what you had to say in defense of that because I I didn't want to cause a big scene because we're running out of time, but I think that's being taken out of context in totality of scripture. Right. Yeah, and there's lots of ways to tackle this issue when someone says they can believe they can lose their salvation.

I literally was talking about this. 20 minutes ago. Downstairs a guy was over inspecting the new roof. And I think here's stuff, and he's a Christian. We got talking about that very topic, so it's kind of coincidental.

So, when he says if you're lukewarm, he's going to spit you out of his mouth. Where does it say they're saved? This is one of the things that people will do is they'll say, well, that means they're saved. Ah, where does it say that? Where does it say that such a person is a true believer to just lukewarmly don't care about this or that about God?

Where does it say that? But doesn't. Right?

So I asked him, show me. And that's the thing you got to do. You got to work in the issue of speaking to them. You know, when talks are not incidentally been delayed, all right. Been to Leida Sea, it's really interesting.

It's it's it's great. Uh all the things I see takes like three hours to walk around. It's really a lot of ruins there. And so it's talking, for one thing, to a church. I know your deeds you are neither hot or cold.

I wish you were hot or cold.

So, first of all, it's a letter to the church.

Now, inside that church, there's going to be true believers and false believers. That's just the nature of how it was. He says, you're lukewarm. You're neither hard or cold. I'm going to spit you out.

the church as a whole. Would you say these are true Christians? Who are going to be spit out of the mouth of Christ? Are these the true believers who picked up their cross and followed after him? Or are they people who are, as it says, rich and wealthy?

They don't need anything. Is that what Christians are? He says, Where you have to ask her, where in the text does it say that they're true believers? Where does it say that? And it says, Buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich.

and white garments. Is that saying you buy s salvation? With gold and silver? Of course not.

So this is. Allegory, it is uh excuse me, figure of speech. is what he's talking here. He's using a figure of speech. And he says, Those whom I love I reprove and discipline.

Therefore, be jealous and repent. He's going to discipline them. It doesn't mean they lose their salvation.

Okay, it's just it's right there. All right. Yeah, no, I I concur with you. I think And that's exactly what I was thinking, but it just wasn't the time or format. But just did there's a presupposition that because he's spewing them out of his mouth, that means they were in.

But You know, if we have demonic worshipers who go to church sometimes, that doesn't mean. you're truly in Christ.

So you know it's it's there's a lot of masquerading people out there, not perfect, but People doing horrible crimes and wearing crosses, and they'll tell you that they are Christians. And or not. And we know that's not true. That's right. And then ask her Say, okay, if you can lose your salvation, what do you have to do to keep yourself in salvation?

Tell me the things you've got to do. and ask for a list. I ask three to five things. That's three to five things. And faith, baptism, don't do bad things, do some good things, whatever it is that they say.

And I asked him, Are you doing these things? Are you doing enough of what you say is needed to please the infinitely holy God by your goodness? Because that's what it comes down to. And then, like last night, I was having this discussion with somebody, and I asked. Are you doing enough to keep yourself right?

And they say, Well, they're trying. And I said, Well, that's pride. And they said, It's not pride. We know that we're not able to to save ourselves. We know that we have to rely on Christ.

And I said, Christ and what you can do. That's pride. Is it's not priority? Yes, it is. You're saying that what Jesus did on the cross is not enough.

But you have to do something to make it work completely and totally. How's that not prideful to say that what Jesus did wasn't enough? I have to do stuff to fix that, to make it complete and true. It's pride. And they refused to say it because of their pride.

And this is one of the problems that happens along with people who teach that you can lose your salvation. Not everybody's guilty of this, but a lot of them do. They just assume, well, you know, I can be saved if I do enough good.

Well, it's God doing it in me.

Well, then you're doing it, aren't you? And so they don't realize what the problem is. At any rate, yeah. And there's other birds I can go into, you know.

Well, what you know, one thing I did here was Her counter was to You'd be on fire for the Lord and Sold out for Christ, and all stuff, you know. I asked, well, what about the people who have converted in prison. you know, are people who have they're on fire but it doesn't look like what you would consider on fire, but they truly do love the Lord. But it's not by your standard. I mean, it's just, it starts to get ridiculous, and that's why I don't.

believe one who is truly saved can lose their salvation and I think people are conflating some folks who may have said like a sinner's prayer or just repeat after me and They didn't necessarily mean it. They kind of just went through a you know, a formula, I think that's where some of the conflation is kind of confusing folks.

Sovereignty of God. But later on in the conversation, I said, Well, look, is it the case that God works all things after the counsel of His will? And I remember correctly, if I do, I hope I do. He said something to the effect of, no, what that means is that He gives us opportunity and conditions by which He can make these choices and things happen.

Something to this effect. I remember He just twisted the word and wouldn't submit to what the Word of God actually says.

Now, okay, having said all of that.

So let me ask you a question. When you are reading through God's Word, And you come across something that maybe perturbs you, you don't like, you don't agree to.

So let me ask you, do you then Do you then uh reject what it says and just go on or dismiss what it says? Or do you then just say, okay, this is what it says, so this is what I'm going to stick with?

Now that's a question I was just going to ask because A lot of times I've encountered people Who Um they will submit the Word of God to their feelings and what they think something must be. They'll do that. And I'm really stymied by that kind of a thing. It's really to me very interesting why anybody would do something like that. Whenever I come across the word and something occurs that I'm reading it that I don't understand, it doesn't agree with what I think it should say.

My conclusion is: okay, I don't understand it, and or my belief system is wrong. That's me. That's how I go. And I look in it. I check things out to see if.

If I can get it to make sense. In a worldview. And if the worldview doesn't comply or doesn't support that theological aspect of the scriptures are teaching, then I need to change my worldview.

Now, this brings me to another sub-point.

So I was discussing something with one guy and I asked him, I said, look, I said uh What's your worldview? He asked me a question and I said, What's your worldview? And he didn't want to answer. He didn't want to say that uh What his worldview was. And someone else had to come in as to tell him he's Arminian.

Oh, okay, thanks. And the guy. uh is was so difficult in that he didn't want me to know what position he came from. I said, Look, I'm just trying to know what your position is so that I can answer your questions better. That's all I'm trying to do.

And then they fight. It's what I find interesting is that so many people just don't want to divulge anything. When they have a view that and you have a view that they don't like, man, they will turn against you. All right. What does that remind you of?

To me, it reminds me of the Democrats and the left. You know, we'll fight in the streets. We'll fight. Get out of the streets and fight. We're going to fight you because your position disagrees with ours and we're going to get you.

And that's what I see. And I don't see much grace from a lot of people who hate the reformed doctrines of God's greatness.

Well, Matt, you back? Yeah, I'm I'm back.

Okay. All right. I don't know what happened. I guess we're live. And that is a tech issue.

So, maybe the connection was lost on my end because I'm assuming, Keith, it wasn't on your end.

So, I have really good internet, and I pay for it. And I'm just assuming That something went wrong on my end. It's an internet glitch, which happens.

So let's get back to Jermaine. We'll just continue. Jermaine, are you still there, buddy? Oh, yes, I am.

Sorry about that, man. We just, the connection dropped. My Comrex dropped, my Comrex program dropped, everything.

So. It happens. We're back on the air.

Alright, Keith is good though. He's always put stuff up and he's quick. All right. So, we were talking about losing salvation and stuff. And I just want to add a comment, and I can talk more about that if you want, but go ahead.

Yes, just so I think it's a very important issue that because I really feel a lot of there's a lot of people who I would consider younger believers in you know, less mature and they they do love the work, but they there's a a kind of a perpetual fear that they live in because they're afraid they're not doing enough. And they're afraid that You know, hey, mate, am I on fire enough? Have I sold all the clothes off my back and. You know, do I give all my money for the homeless and then I'm homeless too, that kind of stuff where It's it's just when is it enough? No, what is it considered enough work to to be saved.

But Yes, this doctor really has to be fleshed out and And uh actually discuss and is not a one minute discussion with people who hold to that position. But And it complicates things my One of my relatives, she considers herself a pastor. And she's a good woman and She already knows where we stand, but it's just a study of the Bible with multiple people, so I don't. You know, I'm not under any for uh false authority or anything, but is it's I just wonder if that kind of stuff kind of convolutes things a little bit. It does.

Yeah, good theology is lacking in a lot of pulpits across America. That is the truth. Amen. I don't know if you're done, but hold on, okay. If you want to hang up, go ahead, but I'm going to drop, I mean, I'll put you on hold.

We have nobody waiting right now other than Jermaine. If you want to give me a call, 877-207. 2276 will be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, and welcome back to the show. Let's get back on to see if Jermaine's still there. Jermaine. You still there, buddy? Yes, I am.

All right. Yeah, it's an interesting uh problem that people have, and one of the things I want them to understand is that Christ canceled the sin at the cross. It's not canceled when you believe, and if he canceled it at the cross, he has to have canceled all of your sin, otherwise you couldn't be saved.

So if you canceled all of your sin, then it can't be the case that you're losing your salvation. And I w I just tell people, in John 3.16, God says, you know, He gave His only begotten Son, whoever believed in Him would never perish but have everlasting life.

So, Jesus equates everlasting life with never perishing. In John 10, 27, he says, My sheep hear my voice, I give eternal life to them, they shall never perish. This is how John, excuse me, how Jesus speaks of eternal life. He equates it with never perishing. And you go to John 6:37 through 40, where the same kind of a thing is happening.

Where he talks about those who will be resurrected, that he will lose none. And even though it doesn't say everlasting life never perish, it says that they will have that life and that he will resurrect them and that Jesus will the father not lose any.

So the same thing's been going is going on there. And a lot of people are unfortunately taught that their own goodness in their own hearts and minds is sufficient to keep themselves right with God. And uh it's just not. And so the the Christian church needs to get back to biblical theology and start teaching the basics of what the faith is. And of course you can't lose your salvation.

Otherwise you keep it by your goodness.

Okay. All right. All right, sounds good to me. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and continue to pour into these scriptures so I can have a healthy defense that that Is just unavoidable at this point, but some people like to just hold on to what they think of as sound doctrine, even if it's unsound. I'll give it a shot.

That's right. Little by little, man. You're a good guy. You'll do great. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Well, God bless you, man. Thank you. Have a good weekend.

All right. God bless. All right, all right, all right.

Now, we have nobody waiting right now, so I wanted to inform you. I had a really interesting conversation last night. I get on Discord every now and then and just go toe-to-toe with people. This was a three-hour discussion I had with some people last night. They were taking turns trying to come up, and the arrogance of so many people who.

who uh just deny the word of god and It's really interesting how people will come out of the woodwork and say, which I find interesting, I'll be talking the gospel and they'll interrupt when the gospel is being preached, or I'm talking to somebody and I raise five points answering everything they say, and yet I'm the one who loses all discussions. And this kind of thing happens a lot, I know, because as I go out into these rooms and discussions, all kinds of people who are against what I teach, the security of Christ, the doctrine of the Trinity, salvation by faith alone, and Christ alone, the people who are opposed to those things flock into the rooms and then they attack. And that's okay. It's just part of what happens.

Well, something interesting last night was there's a particular Mormon who I talked to, and he's particularly arrogant and condescending at a lot of times. And So One of the things we had this discussion, and what's interesting is that he and the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics will team up. I get a huge kick out of it. They'll team up against me to show that salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone is simply untrue and that you have to do good works to be saved. And so they'll all team up together and they'll quote varying scriptures, ripping them out of context, and I can show you some stuff that they do.

And so what was really interesting is I quoted a verse out of a Mormon source. And this one verse, not a verse, but a quote from Articles of Faith by James Talmadge, where he says, the sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone in Christ alone has worked for evil. And This started a great conversation. And so I spent a half hour Oh man, I'm remembering. I spent a half hour trying to get the Mormon.

To agree to what he was saying.

Now what I mean by that is he would say something. And I would write it down and I'd say And then we get it straight. Are you saying this? And then he would. He would uh i he would avoid me, you know, trying to really pin him on anything.

And he would use a couple terms, and I would, you know, I would attack. And so. What he said was this He wrote it out, and and I copied it down. And what he said was, It is evil To say that we should rely on Jesus' sacrifice, death, and resurrection via monergistic. uh regeneration.

By faith without works, so as to be saved.

So what I did was, I said, what do you mean by monogistic regeneration? And he could Coded me on their website. Where I talk about the legal declaration of righteousness obtained by the believer by faith alone in Christ alone. And uh I said, so what you're telling me then is I said, is this correct? That it is evil to say that we should rely on Jesus' sacrifice, death, and resurrection.

by and being justified by faith alone in Christ alone. That works aren't necessary, and that's evil. And what he would do And I'll just say this and I'll get into the the other stuff. But he would say, I'm going to only repeat what I said. And I said, I'm trying to clarify what you said.

Okay, this goes back and forth like this. I'm not going to get into the he said, she said stuff. And so I kept writing modifications of this, and I put this into. Um And I modified it, and I kept pasting it into our chat room. I wanted him to say, yeah, this is what I agree with, and he wouldn't do it.

He refused to do it. He kept going back to the original thing, which I said, We have to clarify with the original thing. I said, I've already got that.

Well, what do you mean by these terms? And then he would just say, Well, I'm quoting what you said. And I said, Too good, let's put what we said in there. And he wouldn't agree. He was bad.

I said, So to be clear, you believe, I said, it is evil doctrine to teach. That my sins are forgiven purely by relying on Jesus. sacrifice, death, and resurrection. where, therefore, I am justified by a legal declaration of righteousness. obtained by faith alone in Christ alone.

I said and that's Because there's no works if it's faith alone in Christ alone, there's no works, right? Is that evil? And he wouldn't answer the question because it is saying what it is.

Okay, anyway, so this is what he's saying. He was saying that it's evil to say That if you believe and trust in Jesus' sacrifice, death, bed, and resurrection. that you trust in him alone. For the forgiveness of your sins, that's evil.

So I expanded this and I said, let's just say, now this is where the Catholics and the East Orthodox are listening. I think that's a good idea. There's a man named Bob. And the Lord has been convicting him of his sin. He's not a Christian, and he's been convicted varying ways.

God's communicating this to him. And he's out in a field, it's a beautiful day, greenfield. And he's alone contemplating everything, and the conviction of the Spirit is just too much for him. He can't handle it anymore. and he drops to his knees.

He cries out, he raises his hands to the sky. He lifts his head up and he talks to Jesus. He says, Jesus, He says, I know I'm a sinner. I know I'm guilty. And I just trust in what you've done.

I believe and trust in what you did in that cross because you've heard the gospel presented to him, right? I trust in what you did in the cross. And I believe I'm I that you'll wash away my sins by what it is you've done, and I just trust in what you are doing. That's all you're all I have. Just by faith, Lord, I just trust in you.

And I asked him, is that evil?

Now, when I asked him that, oh man. It was so obvious he wouldn't answer the question. What do you say? Is that evil to simply trust in Christ? Let me tell you, the East Orthodox, Roman Catholics, the Mormons, they all deny that.

They all deny that it's sufficient. that it is evil ultimately to simply trust in Jesus. Man. And that is pathetic. Please write back.

Please give me a call if you want. Please write back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, Rodavan, welcome back to the show. If you want to call me, you can 877-2072276. You can also send me an email info at CARM. Dot org info at carm.org and put the subject line radio comment radio question. and uh I can get to them, I may get to them today because Fridays are often very slow.

Alright, so One of the things I'll be doing, and I do regularly, is I go online and I find people who. are semi-knowledgeable. And then I battle with them. over Christian doctrines. The reason I do this is multifaceted.

One, I kind of enjoy it because of defending the Christian faith. Two, I learn things. It's all almost every single time we'll be discussing things and I'll learn a new nuance of truth. Or someone might make a comment, like, Well, well, that's about this and then learn new things. This happened last night, as a matter of fact.

And I'm going to go to a verse that someone brought up. In order to refute the idea. Are you of security in Christ? This person went to Hebrews 10, 27. Or 2010, 26, excuse me.

Where it says, if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. And So he says this proves that if you lose your salvation, or you can lose your salvation because if you continue to sin, you can lose it. And So I said, okay, first of all, It's written in the Hebrews. And it doesn't mean that that everybody there was saved. And he says, Well, the word we, you know, the writer of Hebrews, we both agreed was Paul, we believe it's Paul.

And that he's concluding himself.

So if he goes on sinning willfully for receiving the knowledge of truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin. I said, okay.

So that's a rhetorical device if we do this. And I went to 1 John 1:10. where it says this. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar. It's a rhetorical device.

If we say this, if we say that, it doesn't mean he's necessarily included in it. It's just a rhetorical device. And I said, it's what it is. But look at this. I said.

If we go on sinning wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, does it say that they're saved? This is one of the things that you have to understand that when you're talking to people, people assume so many things out of the text it doesn't say. Receiving the knowledge of the truth. It doesn't say that they receive the truth. but the knowledge of what it is.

He said, Do you understand that? That's what's going on. They're receiving the knowledge of it. Doesn't mean that they're saved, but they've heard the gospel message, the knowledge of the truth, they've received that knowledge. They go on sinning.

They go on doing this stuff after that.

Well, there's no sacrifice left for them. There's nothing. Because they're rejecting Jesus. Because he's the only sacrifice. I could say Yeah.

And this is one of the things that I brought up, and what's really interesting is, and you may encounter this if you're having discussions with people. They ignore what's being said. You give them an answer, they ignore it. and go on to another point. What do they want to prove their point?

And this happened three or four times. There was one individual last night, and I said, why is it? that when I bring up A point like this, and this is a good example, Hebrews 10, 26. I said, I'd bring this up. And receiving the knowledge of the truth.

It doesn't say they've received the truth, but the knowledge of it. Why is it you don't address what I said? You just ignore it and go on to something else, and literally. the guy ignored what I just said and went to something else. It's really interesting to me to see and to hear to experience people who refuse the truth.

Who refuse to think. I'm not saying everything I say is right, but what I am saying is that so many times they just ignore what's being said, they go on to something else. How is that a sincere dialogue? How is it a true pursuit of truth? If I'm talking to someone and they make a point, I'm going to deal with that point.

I'm going to deal with what they ask, like this verse. I said, let's look at that verse. Let's go into that verse. Let's look at what you said. They don't return the favor.

Not very often. And so it's interesting. It's just a small point, but this is some of the things that I have to go through regularly in order to try and hone theology, field test it, and learn. And then sometimes on the radio present you stuff that I've learned. Anyway, let's get to Cole from Georgia.

Cole, welcome. You're on the air. Yeah, Matt Click, how are you doing? I don't agree with you on baptism. It's been bothering me for a while.

Well, then you should, if it bothers you that you disagree, then you should disagree. It won't bother you anymore. No, no, no. You got it, Paul. No, well, but here's the thing.

Here's the thing: because I heard another preacher on the radio talking about it, he agreed with me. And he says, look. If John the Baptist When they say, you know the verse because you know the Bible well. It says he was baptizing there because there was much water.

Now if he was sprinkling, why would he need much water? Yeah. John was baptized in the house. I'll explain. You know the verse.

I'm going to explain. I'll go. We'll go. We'll look, okay? He was baptizing in Aannon near Salem.

because there was much water there and people were coming and were getting baptized. All right. So, are you saying then that if they're going to be just simply sprinkled or whatever, they don't need a lot of water, right?

Okay. So Let's do some thinking. All right, let's do some thinking. I happen to have done a lot of research on this kind of a thing.

So let's do this. I'm going to get my notes up. And um Let's see, mathematics, here we go.

So let's John was baptizing.

Okay. Around that time, just put some flesh and blood on this, around the time. Of John the Baptist, I did some research, found some average numbers.

So, this is just averaging numbers out. There's about 1.9 million people. in the area where John was. one point nine million. If 5% of the population is getting baptized, because it says all of Judea and Jerusalem are going out to be baptized by him.

It says all.

Well, does it mean every individual? Of course not.

But it means a lot of people, enough for them to say everybody's going there.

So I just said, let's just pick 5% of the population. I'm just picking a number. This would mean then, and I'm going to lay this out, and I'll explain why I'm doing this. That If he was doing this for 14 months, which is an average length of his ministry time, some say longer, some say shorter, just picked average. If he was baptizing by by himself, eight hours a day, he would not be able to do it.

In fourteen months. If three of his disciples were helping him, Eight hours a day for thirty days a month for fourteen months, it'd be nineteen per hour, about one every six minutes.

So When we start looking at how many people are getting baptized, Yeah. Then When you look at the issue of much water, One of the possibilities is this: a great number of people is going out there. If you have a single fountain, and you're you're sprinkling. You could technically do that, but the problem is the fountain will eventually become dirty, where people drink out of and they get water for their homes. That's not going to work.

You need a lot of water. That would allow them to have a lot of people in the area who could come by and then baptize them. You could do that. And you could do it three different ways. One is by immersion.

one is by pouring, and one is by sprinkling, and all three of these I can make a case for in a Scripture.

Now having said that, let's do a little bit more thinking. If they were baptizing, And they were to do this. There's a problem about standing in the water out there, something as simple as standing out in the water. for let's say eight hours a day. There's a lot of water and thousands are getting baptized.

Well, the water I I've been to the Jordan, I've touched it, and it's cold. An average temperature of the Jordan is in the seventies.

Now back in the day when I was younger in Southern California, I'd go out body surfing. I'd have a spring suit on. The water would be in the 70s. You could be out for two, maybe three hours, and you got to get out because you're getting hypothermic. Because you just you just gotta get out.

And If John is in the water with his disciples, They're out in the cold Jordan. They don't have a wetsuit. They're going to have to be out there far enough. to be able to d draw people down in the water and lift them up. Because if the water is only up to their knees, theoretically, And they drop down someone to immerse them down below their knees and bring them up, that's going to wreck their backs in no time.

Well, the water's got to be a little bit higher. Let's say up to the waist. which is reasonable.

Well, you can put the uh you can drop someone down, they weigh 100 pounds going down, they weigh 102 coming up because of the wetness of the water in their clothing. and do this once every roughly three minutes. or two minutes, depending on how many the numbers how long. for eight hours a day. thirty days a week.

For fourteen months. Yeah. it becomes logistically very difficult if they're immersing them. If you're out in the water even up to your waist in eight hours at that time, You start shivering. It's hypothermic.

You're going to have to take breaks from doing this as people rotate in.

Now you've got to have lots of people helping and baptize. by immersion. And the more you put this together, you go, wait a minute, there's a problem here. We're going to break, so hold on. Like, okay, we'll get back.

It's laying this stuff down. Hold on, folks. We write back, folks, after these messages. Hope this is interesting. There's more of this to come.

But hey, I think it's a good point made right there for a good break. We'll be right back, please. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Hope you're enjoying the intellectual challenge there a little bit. Let's get back with Cole from Georgia. What do you think, buddy? What do you think?

Okay, okay, Matt. Listen, I heard that, and I still don't agree with you, but okay, the way you laid it out was nice.

Now let me let me say this.

Okay. I've never heard anybody explain to Trinity like you.

Okay. I agree. You people call in, I listen to the show, and It's masterful. God has blessed you with that knowledge on the Trinity. I agree with that.

Okay. It's awesome.

Now, but let's get back to baptism.

Okay. Now, I don't I'm not buying that. What you told me.

Now Now, um It's it's it's let me say these two points, and I'm going to listen to you. Philip and the eunuch, they came up out of the water. If he was sprinkling him, he wouldn't have to go down. He wouldn't need to, you could just reach his hand.

Now, another one, it says Jesus straightway came up out of the water, John the Baptist again.

So you can't get around that, man. You got to rethink this. You got to go and do some more research, man. I'm telling you.

Okay, well, let's do that. Let's do that. Let's take a look.

Okay, because the Ethiopian eunuch is Acts chapter 8, verses 38 and 40.

Okay? And uh Well, actually, a little bit before that, Unik said. Uh talking about uh who the Oh my goodness, there are so many things to talk about. They went along the road and came to the water, and a eunuch said, Look, water. What prevents you from being baptized?

And verse 38: He ordered the chariot to stop. They both went down into the water. That's verse thirty eight. Philip as well as the eunuch, And then they both came up out of the water, right? Yeah.

If they both can't have it. Hold on, hold on, hold on. If they both came up out of the water and saying out of the water means they were immersed, then Philip and the eunuch were both immersed. No, Philip has to go in with him to immerse him. Come on, Ben.

You can't believe that. Come on. Hold on. Come on. You don't understand what I'm saying.

Hold on. You don't understand what I'm saying. The phrase came up out of the water. You're inferring that it means immersion. But it me if that's the case, that coming up.

Absolutely, absolutely, it means immersion.

Well, hold on, let me finish. It says when they both came up out of the water, were they both immersed? No, he had to do it, man. He couldn't immerse himself.

Okay, okay, let's do this again. The phrase. come up out of the water you're saying means immersion. That's what you're saying. Yeah, I was So, when they came up out of the water, they is referring to both Philip and the eunuch, then they were both immersed.

If you're saying to come up out of the water means that it means immersion, they came up out of the water, then they were both immersed. You see the problem? No. Yes.

Somebody has to immerse the other. Why not? You're not understanding. You're not understanding. You're not understanding.

He's swimming. You're not understanding. You're not understanding. If you say the phrase means this. If you say the phrase, come up out of the water means you are immersed.

If that's what the phrase means, then they came up out of the water, they were both immersed. That's the logic problem. You know what? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes, yes.

You're twisting this. Come on, you're too smart. I'm gonna listen. You gotta listen. I'm gonna let you do some more research.

You're going to come back and you're going to say, you know what? I was wrong. I mean, you're big enough to do this. You're big enough. You're smart.

I can do it. I can do it when I'm wrong. It happened once. Baptism. Baptism.

It's the emergence. It's the emergence. It's not sprinkling. Hold on. Wait a minute.

I got one more point. I got one more point. You say you don't believe in the Catholics. The Catholics sprinkle. That could make you turn from it.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's called the genetic fallacy.

Someone bad does it, therefore it's bad. That's a genetic fallacy. It's not a good form of logic.

So I'm just trying to show. Hold on, brother. I'm just trying to show you that the logic you're using fails when we apply it to the text. If you're saying the phrase to the majority of the people, that's it because one of them has to do the other coal. If you say the phrase, come up out of the water means immersion.

Then they come up out of the water, then logically both had to be immersed. That's the logic you're offering. It doesn't work.

Furthermore, Jesus, Matt, you're acting like the college professors, the college professors, when they're trying to explain, they start using all these words and phrases. Come on, Matt, don't do that. Come on, just do some more research, and I'll call you back, okay? Do some more research, Matt. I've done a whole lot of research on baptism.

You're all, you rag about it. And I guarantee you, half of the audience agrees with me. My half agrees with me. I don't care if half do or don't. I don't care.

Look, I've done my notes just on baptism in Word, I mean, not Word, but in Microsoft Word. Is 62 pages. I mean, I did a lot of research on it. It's 62 pages in outline form. That's how much research I've done on baptism.

And I'm just saying the phrase doesn't work for you. You have to find something else. That's all. And by the way, Jesus was sprinkled according to the law. It is baptism.

Now Good or west. It says he came straightway up out of the water. It didn't sell you sprinkle mat. I would Coal. Go to the cold, cold, cold, hold it, cold, you gotta hold on.

I gotta put you on hold, buddy. I gotta put you on hold, all right. I did. I muted you so no one. I'm not hearing you.

No one's hearing you because you keep interrupting. I got to do this to get this word out. Go to the Karm website. Look up why was Jesus baptized. Look at the Scripture references.

He was baptized to fulfill the Old Testament law. The Old Testament law required him to get sprinkled.

Now that says something there you can go check out. All right, brother, go check it out. All right?

Okay? Well I'm I'm still not buying it. I'm still not buying it. I think you really need to relook that, get with your guys. And really, really pray about that, Matt, because I really believe that he was.

I don't think you're praying about it. I don't think it was sprinkles. All of those people in the old New Testament, nobody was sprinkled. Hold on, hold on. It's cold, cold.

Cold, cold. Cold, stop, stop, stop, stop. Yes, they were, and I could show it from scripture. And I'm just saying: look at what was required of Jesus according to the scriptures. That's my challenge to you.

I've done the homework, and you can go look at my website, and you can go look at the article. Why was Jesus baptized? Go look it up and you'll see, according to the law, look up the scriptures. See if you can find any place where a man entering the priesthood had to be immersed in water. Because Jesus had to do it according to the law.

There's a challenge, okay? But we got to move along, buddy, okay? Wow.

Okay. We got to go. Oh, my goodness. Let's get to Andrew from North Carolina. Andrew, welcome.

You're on the air, brother. Oh, thank you. You know, I was just thinking about this very topic the last few weeks, and I tuned in and One of the points that I thought about, being a good old boy, used to do his share of fishing back in the day. Uh-huh. Whenever I'd go fishing in a stream or a river, I would have to walk down the banks to get into the water to get the fish off the hook.

Yep. Could that be that they have to actually climb down the banks to get in the water? And then when they're done, they climb up out of the water, up the banks? Yep, that's exactly correct. It's one of the points I would often make.

You can be walking into the water up to your knees. You know, when my wife and I were down in Southern California, our kids would get in the water, up to their knees, they go, get out of the water, come up out of the water. It was you know, it's just simple. Yeah. That's exactly right.

And what kind of fishing do you do? Is it bass or trout? I guess it's a river, right? Yeah. Yeah, it was depending, you know, uh, sometimes you go fishing for bass, mostly bass.

You know, but I hadn't never thought about uh baptism too though.

Well, check out parallelism. There's a lot, and there's a lot to baptism people don't know about. And I've done a lot of research on it and over the years I've been blessed to have studied many good experts on it and collected a lot of good information. I've been taught a great deal. I've verified a lot of things in Scripture.

I've been challenged by a lot of what I've read, and I just put it together and say, Hey, let's check this out. You know?

Okay? All right. Is there any parallelism between Baptism um and being anointed with water and David being anointed with oil. Here's the thing a lot of people are not aware of. In the Old Testament, the element is applied to the person.

You're anointed with oil. You're sprinkled with blood. You're baptized with water. That's the pattern of Scripture. The element is applied to the to the object or the person.

I've done a lot of research on that as well, and that's the case. But in my opinion, a lot of churches aren't teaching good, deep biblical theology. But I'm not saying you can't be immersed. In fact, when I baptize people, I'd say, let's do it to immersion. You know it's not a problem.

Okay. Okay. Yep, thank you. All right, may God bless. All right.

In fact, the only one I've ever sprinkled is my son. uh in the hospital when right at her being born, he was uh dying from a birth defect and uh we knew he would probably die and he did and uh baptized him right there. in the hospital bed. in the arms of my wife. That's the only time I've ever sprinkled anybody.

All right, let's get to Jim from Iowa. Jim, welcome. You're on the air. Yeah, and sorry, there's a verse in the Bible that says, Whosoever puts away his wife except for fornication. and marries another and commits adultery.

Now the word in the original Greek adultery, what do you say that means? It means adultery? Physical Yes, my kau'u, yeah.

Okay, that's what I say too.

Some guys say it makes a break a covenant. One other thing quick on the baptism. The baptism the Bible talks about baptism as a burial. When you bury somebody, you don't sprinkle dirt on them, you cover them with the dirt. Was baptism.

Baptism for the remission of sins. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You can't just dump a bunch of stuff out and like, you know, this is your show.

Okay, was Jesus sprinkled with dirt over him when he was under the old law? He was under the old law. Dude, stop, stop. Let me ask the question. You're not even listening to the question.

Was Jesus sprinkled with dirt when he was put in a tomb above the level of the ground? Was he? That has nothing to do with it. The Bible says that Okay, so I just dropped him because we only have a minute left, and he says it has nothing to do with it. In other words, he's not answering the question.

And this is pretty typical of those people who have a faulty understanding of baptism. And we don't have time to get into it right now because by the time we really get into this, this show is going to be going over, and that's it.

So I'm just going to close out.

Now, I just hope that you all have a great weekend. I hope that you go to church on Sunday and you get a good sermon and pay attention to that sermon. May the Lord bless you in that. I also want to let you know that we stay on the air by your support. Please consider supporting us at At carm.org, and then go to the donate page.

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And I've just said, I hope you all have a great weekend. May the Lord bless you, and by his grace, we'll talk to you next week. Have a good one, everybody. God bless you. Another program powered by the Truth Network.