Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hey everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matslick. Here's the Matchlick Live. Today's date.

is uh February ninth. 2026. I got back from Texas yesterday. I was in a series of debates. There was a great set of debates done by.

Marlon Wilson is a great guy. The truth uh The Gospel Truth Network. And he had a bunch of people come out, flew out different places. And we debated. And so it was useful, it was helpful, and I had a great time.

I had a great time. I debated, and I'll talk about that. But if any of you were there, and you're listening to me right now, if you were there, call in and tell me what you thought of the debate. Not just mine, but all of them, because it was really well done. The church was great, the setting was great.

We had, I'm going to say, 200, 300 people show up. James White debated on the Trinity with a Unitarian, and my opinion. the Unitarians' arguments were just bad. Seriously, they they were. Not me just saying, oh, Christians always win.

No, it it was this guy's this guy's his arguments were just they were horrible. And I remember saying to my friend Eli, Eliyah Yala, I remember saying, Well, this guy doesn't know what he's doing. This is basic, you know, entry-level stuff about Jesus. And he just kind of nodded. It was really bad.

And James, you know, being the excellent debater he is, handled it well. We had um uh Avery. He's a he's a good guy, man. He Avery's good, man. He he uh he's he's tight.

He's good. Good guy, and he debated uh Jake Byron. I'm trying not to mess his name up. Baron Catella or something. Oh, sorry about that.

And who's a very competent, very intelligent Muslim defender? And it was they debated the issue of what's called the Islamic dilemma. Which is the Quran says basically trust the Bible, and then if you trust the Bible, the Quran can't be true. That's the really short version of it, but that's what's going on there. And then we had um What else we've debated?

We had the Trinity in Oneness. And in my debate, I'll talk about that last. We had. Eli debated Dan Barker.

Now I've debated Dan Barker twice uh formally. And it was uh does you know the Christian God exists? And they went at it. And Dan's arguments, in my opinion, aren't that solid.

However, one of his arguments I thought was worth examining. And so I talked to him afterwards. I said, Can I have your opening statement where you read this? He goes, Yeah, sure. And.

So I like Dan actually, believe it or not. He's a real nice guy. And it turned out that Eli and I stayed in the same hotel, and Eli was driving. And uh so did Dan Barker. He was at staying in the same hotel and I get up.

Hey, how are you? You're here at the hotel. He goes, oh, yeah. I said, well, you need a ride to the venue. For the debate, you know, and he says, yeah.

And so Eli drove, and I was there in the. Car with and then we're just talking, talking like guys, just normal stuff. We get to the place, and then the gloves are off. We do debate, and then the gloves are back on, everybody's nice. And so I think Eli really did a good job there.

Uh, debating him. Um, where was it was, it was, uh, oh, and uh, sola scriptura, it was with Anthony Rogers and uh. Trent Horne. And by the way, By the way, so I've talked to Trent before, and we've never met, except for we met Saturday. And he was out there getting ready to debate, and it was like 10 minutes before.

And I walked up to him, you know, he's at his table at the front of the church. And I just walked up and he looked at me and he goes, Matt Slick. And I said, Hey, Trent, how are you doing? And um we got talking. And uh I I made a comment to him.

Uh he's a nice guy, okay. I said, look, a few years ago, we were setting up a debate, but he and I were. And my wife's health was starting to deteriorate, and I was focusing more on her than anything else. And I kind of pulled back a lot of stuff. And I talked about that.

I said, I really want to say thank you for your compassion, your understanding in that area. And he says, oh, no problem at all. He gets it. And then he said. And I'm bringing this up for a reason.

He said that I think it was two months ago. His wife, they found something, there's a physical issue in the brain. I think it was a mini stroke or tumor or something like that. I'm not trying to out him or anything, but he said it, you know. The reason I'm saying is I just pray for his wife.

I said I'd pray for her, and he was appreciative of that. And so. You know, it's always tough when your spouse is in bad shape and you have to deal with that. It's tough. And then there was latent flowers.

He debated um Um Jeremy Nortier. And uh That was an interesting debate. It was an interesting debate. I thought Jeremy did really well. I thought Layton did well.

Now Leighton's a Christian, okay? And it was on the issue of election. Does God elect conditionally or unconditionally? And I would love to have been in that debate. Along with Sola Scriptura and other stuff.

But It went well, and you know, who want to say won that one? Uh I I lean towards Jeremy. For a few reasons, but I would say for others too. Pay attention to listen to the debate and see when it comes out. They're not released yet.

Incidentally, the debates are not released yet. And when I do get uh the uh the debates my debate uh released then I'll either copy it in front of my site kind of thing or just put a link to it. Uh And I released my opening statement there.

Now, okay, now let's get to some other stuff before we get to the caller.

So, my debate was on: is Jesus God in flesh or merely a prophet? And I debated Nadir Ahmed Nad no, Nadir Ahmed. And I don't believe that Nadir is the best. Muslim debate are uh for this kind of topic. And Art.

You know, he's a nice guy, we talk afterwards and before, you know, he's a nice guy. Speaks perfect English, he's American, I guess. I don't know. But at any rate, um His arguments weren't very sound, weren't very good. And so, if you're to watch our debate, don't expect a whole bunch of incredible stuff.

Um There was back and forth and He interrupted a lot. Oh man. It was bad. And we got into it a few times. But that's just the nature of what happens in debates, particularly when it's against the false doctrine of Islam versus the truth of who Jesus Christ is.

But when this stuff gets released, we can talk about it.

Now, if any of you were at the debate, And you want to call in and talk about it, please feel free. I asked people when I was up there before we got started. I said, How many people have been to Carm? And about 200 people, about I think about 40% raised their hands. I accused everyone else of being heretics for not being at Carm.

And they got a kick out of that. And so that was fine. And I'm going to tell you, a lot of people came up to me and just thanked me for the Carm website. Uh and this one thing I heard Repeatedly, I've been hearing this for years. Back when I was a new Christian, first getting started in understanding the Christian faith, I went to Carm.

And it was reading your articles. That helped me get grounded in what the Trinity is, who Jesus is, what salvation is, and all those things. And then you know, I I print up all your articles and I would study them and read them, and they're so easy to understand and so clear, and I'm just smiling. And I said, Well, praise God, that's exactly what I wanted it for, was to give the basics, provide people with a very good foundation, and then they could move on to bigger and better things. And that's what people were doing.

They were going on to their own ministries and their own ideas and own specialties and getting more deeper things. And so I would just my heart was warmed. Uh for that. My heart was warmed. And um It was great.

It was a great debate. Uh great stuff and um I really enjoyed it.

So there you go. All right.

Now, if you want to give me a call, it is easy. All you have to do is dial 8772-07-2276. You're listening to Matchlick Live here. And if you want to email me, that is also easy to do. Just send an email to info at carm.org.

Info at CARM.org. Put in a subject line, radio comments, or radio question, and we can get to Well, we try to get to that stuff. All right, let's get to none other than Jermaine from California. Jermaine, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey Matt, welcome back. Good to talk. Oh yeah. Yeah, man. Good stuff, Ellie.

What do you got, man?

Well, I had a question about the fourth commandment and keeping the Sabbath holy. Um so I was in a completely different hemisphere. for about a month and You know, I was it was just really it it just really got to me how if people are having a hard keep us out of day. you know, the people who try to be Sabbatarians or keep the Old Testament, it hit me that time isn't linear because I was technically in the future for us. I was twenty hours ahead.

probably eighteen hours hours ahead of you guys, but I was thinking about my family on the other side of the world. Like, boy, if you were in, say, California or anywhere on the west coast, you. you couldn't keep the separate at the same time.

So Right. Isn't the Sabbath more of a spiritual law or or or principle or is it a little bit of both? A little bit of both. In the Old Testament, it was more law than spiritual. In the New Testament, it's more spiritual than law.

And so one of the things I'll tell people is Read Romans 14. Excuse me. Because Romans fourteen talks about. The idea of one man having the opinion that every day is alike, and another man says one day is above another, let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. When I bring this up to pure hardcore Sabbatarians, they always say, Well, that's not talking about Sabbath.

You know, they just always change things so that every day somehow doesn't include the Sabbath. It means every other day. And they always do this because they want a hold of the Sabbath. If Paul wanted us to hold to the Sabbath in a strict sense, that would have been a good place to clarify what he meant. But he didn't do that.

And so we're not obligated to follow the Sabbath in that legalistic sense in the Old Testament times, which would be on a Saturday. And just as you brought up, it would be according to Jerusalem time. Because that's when it would be.

Now, okay, so sun up to sundown. And you're right. Those on the other side of the planet might not be doing the Sabbath at the same time as you, even though they're supposed to honor the Sabbath, because it's based on the Earth's rotation and sundown, sun up, and stuff like that. And I think, you know, it's a good point. There's issues there.

some problems potentially. Yeah, it's good stuff there. Yeah.

Okay.

Well, just a little bit of follow up.

So doesn't that kind of prove that the law that some people are still trying to adhere to really only apply to the societies that are I guess the uh The Jews at the time or societies in that direct region because no one else had even heard. of keeping the Sabbath.

So wouldn't that kind of Would that kind of be more of a principle directed towards the the Jews? It was And here's the thing, theologically speaking, the Sabbath was part of the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are of the moral law. The reason it's a moral issue of the Sabbath is because it reflects. salvation.

And it's a moral thing that God did when He paid for our sins on the cross. You fulfilled righteousness. in accordance with law and So, the Ten Commandments, based on the character of God, come into the. into uh the New Testament.

However, the Sabbath was is a s a soteriological representation. Of the work of Christ on the cross, that work has been accomplished, so therefore we're free. in the Sabbath.

So we could say we're always in the Sabbath. We are always in the rest of God. We're always living every day, the Sabbath. Every day by default for the Christian is Sabbath. Because we have rest in Christ, we're no longer obligated to keep the law.

So then you can, if you want, take a particular day and make it more revered in order to follow some of those things about the Old Testament Sabbath stuff we've got to break.

So hold on, buddy. We'll get back to you after the break, okay? Hey folks, be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. If you want to give me a call, the number is 8772-07-2276.

Be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Jermaine.

Jermaine, buddy, welcome. You're on the air, man. Yeah, I'm really glad you clarified some of that because it I think it can be really confusing for people who are attempting to keep the Sabbath and not understand the rules of the Sabbath and how many times the the quotes that it occurs, you know, if you're going to be legalistic, but With Christ as your Sabbath, like you said, it's all the time. Yeah, people don't realize that. The issue of the law is the tutor.

Leads us to Christ. Galatians 3 talks about this. We want to understand. One of the reasons, several reasons, but one of them is to show us we can't please God by what we do. That it has to be by grace.

The laws of the tutor leads us to Christ. Galatians 3:24, I believe it is. Oh, okay.

So there's a theological principle that we have died with Christ. And because we've died with Christ, we are therefore died dead to the law. And Romans 7:4 talks about this. If the law includes the Old Testament as a Sabbath thing, we're supposed to keep the law, we've got to keep all of it. If people want to say we've got to keep the Sabbath.

Well We don't have to keep the Sabbath. I tell Christians, you don't have to keep it. You're not obligated to keep it under the law. Because the Sabbath itself is not reiterated in the New Testament. As a requirement.

The nine things are: don't lie, don't bear false witness, don't commit adultery and murder. These things are reiterated and re-verified, so to speak, in the New Testament, but the Sabbath is not. It's just fulfilled in Christ.

So I say to people: you don't have to do the Sabbath, you don't have to. You're free to. there is a benefit. For resting on that day and going to church and worshiping and spending time with family and doing the fellowship things aside from the normal issues of work. And God blesses.

because it's one of the fellowship things he desires of us.

So instead of the Sabbath becoming a set of rules and regulations, it becomes a An opportunity. to rest and share in our fellowship with God and with one another. Because We're no longer obligated to keep the law to be saved because we're no longer under that law. You've died to it. Romans 6.6, Romans 6.8, Romans 7.4.

So that's what uh that's what that's how it's to look at it.

So I'm free. On the Sabbath to go shopping, which is I did yesterday. I got home from my trip to Texas. I went to a store and did a little shopping.

Okay.

But I didn't do karm stuff. Because that's my work. And I I I choose to to not do that on Sunday. Kind of a thing. I work six days a week, not seven.

Believe it or not, once you play get five-day weeks, I get six. I work six days a week.

So anyway, make sense, buddy?

Okay.

Yes, makes perfect sense and I concur. I was attempting to try to keep some kind of Sabbath, but I was so out of whack with my time being in a different zone that it was a channel wheel.

So I just I just kinda kept what happens daily and listened to Carm and every other thing I could that was part of my my spiritual repertoire and and I was happy.

So I'm glad I don't have to live according to the law because I would fail. Yeah, I'll get in line. That's for sure. I mean, I know that. Yep.

It's not me. I would fail. I have. That that's how it is with me. Yeah, when I get started I've already failed.

But you know what? God's good. God is loving, God is kind.

So praise God, we have the Sabbath in Christ. Amen.

Alright. All right.

Thank you, Matt. Good to be back. And Look forward to talking with you again. All right, brother. God bless, Jermaine.

God bless. All right, that was Jermaine. We got nobody waiting. If you want to give me a call, it is easy. 877-207-227 By any chance, if any of you are out there who are listening if you're able to call in if you're at the debate There's a couple hundred people, about 250.

I'm gonna say 250, I guess. I don't know how what the count was. But if any of you want to, if you happen to be there and happen to be listening to me now, you want to call? If you're able to, probably not. Give me a call.

We can talk about it. All right, so this issue of the Sabbath. Let me go over some scriptures to kind of help you out a little bit on this. This is what Romans 14:5. Uh One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike.

Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. If we're supposed to keep the Sabbath, why does Paul say one man regards one day above another? That would be the Sabbath? Another regards every day alike.

Well, that has to include the Sabbath, every day. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. Well, if we're supposed to keep the Sabbath. Why does Paul speak In such a way that you don't. And then we can go to Colossians 2.

16. Therefore let no one act as your judge. In regard to food or drink or a festival, or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day. Things which are a mere shadow of what is to come.

So, notice what it says: a festival, these are yearly. A new moon, that's monthly, and a Sabbath day, which is weekly. Let no one act as your judge in regard to the yearly, monthly, or weekly celebrations you have.

Okay.

Sabotage. Don't do that. In Acts twenty, verse seven And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

Now, the first day of the week is Sunday. when we were gathered together to break bread. Paul began talking. And he gave a message.

So there's fellowship, breaking of bread, and apparent preaching on the first day of the week. In 1 Corinthians 16, 1 through 2.

Now, concerning the collection for the saints. As I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week, let each one of you put aside and save as he may prosper, that no collections may be made when I come.

So now this could be interpreted different ways. It could be that it's a tithing thing for Sunday, but it seems, just to be honest here, you know, it's straightforward, the collection for the saints.

Now, this is a kind of a tithe. As I directed, on the first day of each week, let each one of you put aside and save. It doesn't say put aside and give in a tithe, but save.

So you're collecting it on that Sabbath day, or it's going to be on the Lord's Day. to be distributed later on. Which is interesting. That it's on the Sunday that it's said to do that. Let's go to Revelation 1:10 through 11.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, that is understood to be Sunday, because that's the day of the resurrection, okay, on the Lord's Day.

So I was on the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, saying, Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, etc., etc.

So, the point is that things were happening on the Lord's Day used to designate Sunday.

So. Yeah, I hope it's evidence to show. The Bible does not require us to worship on Saturday. We're afraid to, but we don't have to. Let's get to Jamal from North Carolina.

Jamal, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Brother Slick, I'm glad you're back on the air. I'm glad you had a good time at the debate. If I was in town, I definitely would have attended.

Oh man, it was good. It was a lot of good brothers and sisters in Christ. Amen to that. It was great. Good deal, I have a question about Solomon and other folks like him.

Robbie Zacharias is another one. Uh maybe I can put them in the same camp. Uh basically, Count Solomon kind of went away. Uh for my From my understanding. Um but we are still following some of his teachings.

So The question I would like to pose, if I'm posing it correctly, happen after the break.

Okay, all right, pose. After the break.

Sorry about that, brother. Just a little time in there. Hey, folks. Jamal's got a good question coming up, so stay tuned. If you want to give me a call, the number is 8772-07-2276.

We'll be right back. I'm not sure if I can do it. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show.

Let's get back on with Jamal. Hey, Jamal, welcome, buddy. You're on the air. Hey, so uh Gave me some time to formulate my question a little bit better.

So let me take another swing at this.

So with Solomon having issues close to the end of his life, And it has been said that he might have fallen away. Um and with issue with Rob Zacharias, how he had his issues that were exposed after his death Can we still follow teachings of somebody that might have had good doctrine The teachings. but has fallen at some point in their life.

Well, that's a good question because I would my reaction is to say no, but then Solomon's stuff is included in the scriptures. And so um Solomon did fall into paganism. Because he married a bunch of different women, bad stuff. And even Jesus said in Matthew 6:28, he says, Why are you worried about your clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow.

They do not toil, nor do they spin. Yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all of his glory clothed himself like one of these. And so, is that a backhanded compliment? To Solomon by Jesus, knocking him. Not even Solomon, like that.

Anyway, it's just a possible point.

So um because the The truth of what Solomon had Is in the Quran, in the Quran, oh brother, is in the Bible, then we can believe what it is.

So what do we do with someone who was a preacher? and becomes an atheist. There are, in fact, I was talking to Dan Barker about this on Saturday, one of the proponents, one of the top atheists, there's an actual organization. Of people who are pastors and others who've lost their faith, and they're atheists preaching in Christian churches. But they don't want to let it out that they're They've lost their faith because they you know they need They need to make a living, they've got to provide.

And I get that.

So now that makes it okay, but I get that.

So, can we trust what those preachers say, even though they're atheists? And the answer is: well, if they're being faithful to the truth of God's word, then yes.

So just because they had a bad ending doesn't mean that the start of what they did was false.

So now it becomes an issue.

So, do we trust stuff like Rabbi Zacharias?

Now, I had lunch with a guy who knew him personally. of a couple of years ago we we had a a meeting and um He said he was friends with him and and knew the details of all this stuff, and he said it was just not true.

So I said, Really? He says, Oh, yeah. He says, I know what was going on. It was not true. It was taken out of context, etc.

So I don't know what the truth is. I'm just saying, okay, there's another side of the story. It's easy to take something like that and then just lambast him. But anyway. Here nor there.

So, what do we do? I say. compare if you're going to study something from somebody who is in doubt In the previous stuff, you'd have to study the scriptures to make sure that what they're saying is true. But generally, I would say stay away from them. That's just my personal opinion.

Like Sam Shimone, he's brilliant at refuting Islam. He's just brilliant. But don't trust him when it comes to soteriology, the doctrine of salvation. He's gone into Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and against Reformed theology. I don't trust him in those areas.

But can I listen to him when he talks about Islam? Yeah.

But I take it with a grain of salt, everything, because I got to be careful.

So it's a tough thing to answer. It it is. You know, I just say give it to the people to make up their own minds, but be very careful. That's all.

Well, that's a very interesting take, not surprising. And while you were talking, I was thinking about well, is anybody worth following? Because Jesus said that not to follow the Christians. No other person just said follow me. I think that's Matthew, where it says, I'm the way, the truth, and the life.

No man is to come to the Father but through me.

So. Name any preacher out there. They have done things that are sinful, but we still follow those preachers.

Now, as you said before. Have they done something that will cause them their pastorship? That could be an issue, and you know, present company not included because they did you dirty. Um but hey, you know, you can be a pastor anytime you want to. But those other guys While they were teaching, And while they are sinners, while we all are sinners, if they're like you're saying, if they're teaching what the Bible says.

what Jesus has said. than the teaching words that we can follow. But if they're doing something that you know, it's just not worth following. We can still separate the man from the Bible, from Jesus. Amen.

Okay, you're right. I mean, think about it, just to make a little joke out of it. I mean, come on, how many people are trusting a guy named Slick on the radio, but not Smoot?

So that's why you gotta compare everything with Slick. It's right, well, you know, I mean, you know, what'd you learn then? Look from a guy named Slick on the radio. It yeah, it's not just not a good start. That will convince them.

So uh But you know, we we just gotta be wise. We've just gotta be wise when we uh when we study and And consider stuff.

So I can read stuff from heretics. I can read a book that was very good from a guy who lost his faith. After he wrote the book, and I can learn from it.

So but for the average Joe? I would say just be careful of what it is you're reading. If you're not sure about something, go to your pastor. go to an elder in your church and just uh lay things down. And see what they say.

But uh I I wouldn't say automatically we can't read anything from somebody who's lost their faith. because sometimes they have truths. Even atheists believe it or not, can say things that are true.

So Yeah. And that is true.

Well, but before I cost you any more uh viewers and supporters, um let me let me say this. I do support Matt Slick. I'm one of the guys that's also, you know, a monthly contributor, so I do listen to Slick. I was just joking there about calling in. I want Slick to have all the support, all the resources he can get.

He's a guy that's really helped me grow.

So go out there and support him. Hey, glad you're back. Glad you're doing this. You take care and God bless. Appreciate it, brother.

I really do appreciate it. Thanks. God bless, brother.

Okay.

All right, that was Jamal. And no, I didn't put him up to that. But hey, you know, if you do want to support us, it's easy to do. All you need to do is just go to carm.org forward slash, I think it's donate, or just go to the Carm home site, homepage. And at the top it'll have a donate link and you can just go there.

And it's easy, it's really easy to set up. We use a new system altogether.

So that's very good. All right, let's get to Mike from Indiana. Mike, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you.

I've been brought up in church believing once saved, always saved, and I know that's what you. Also believe I have struggled with a few verses such as Hebrews 10. 26 through 28, where for if we send willingly after. That we have received the knowledge of truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. but a c uh but a certain fearful looking for judgment and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries.

Right. There are more, but and I'd like to go through a couple if we can. Sure, let's do that one. But let me ask you a question. Who's the Book of Hebrews written to?

It was written to the Jews of that time that were struggling with maul and issues of maul. Right. Very good. Very good. That was a very good statement.

Struggling with the issues of the law. That was very good. Seriously. And you know that there's a great, seriously, it's good, there's a great deal of discussion of the priesthood, right? This is obviously very Jewish.

Now, we're going to come back to that.

Now, if we go on sinning willfully, have you ever sinned willfully after receiving Jesus? Absolutely.

Okay, then there's no longer sacrifice for sins, you're lost, right? Mm-hmm. I interpret it that way. I do struggle with that part because I have since being saved and receiving the Holy Spirit, I have I have willfully and I regret to admit this, but I have willfully sent myself into a state that I felt as I did when I was lost.

Now the road back felt a lot easier and the grace was abundant when I did finally submit and humble myself to repentance of that. But I did not feel as if in that moment, if I were to be struck down, Okay, so you need feelings. But I was going to be with the Lord.

Well, okay, good. Good. But does this does that apply to you? Does it? Because he's talking to the Jews.

If we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, receiving it. Does it say believing it? Or does it say receiving that knowledge? Receiving the information. Does it say Once you've believed it, and then you're regenerated, you're saved, and then you go on doing this, that's not what it's saying.

If we go on sitting and the writer's concluding himself, All right.

So it's just kind of a way of: look, if we do this, it's just a generic kind of a statement. After receiving the knowledge, we can receive knowledge, we can receive information, doesn't mean we're committed to it or or believe it.

Okay.

So I could that's a good explanation. I appreciate that. Do we have time to look at another one? Sure, sure, but really fast. We've got a break coming up.

It's to the Jews, if they're the ones who receive the knowledge of Christ, they rejected that, there is no longer sacrifice for sins because Jesus sacrificed as the only one. It'll work. That's what that means there. And then hold on.

Okay, we'll get back after the break. We'll get to another one, okay? Hey folks, be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back, everybody. Hope you're enjoying the show. Let's get back on with Mike from Indiana. Mike, welcome, buddy.

You're on. All right, thank you. The next verse I wanted to look at regarding eternal salvation and not being able to lose it. Um John 15, and this is a bit more vague. It's the parable of the vine.

But verse 6 says, If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch and is withered, and men gather them and cast them into fire, and they are burnt. And I'm aware that the word abide could have Many interpretive meanings here, but as you read through this, it sounds very much to me like if we're. Uh Going forth and sinning no more than we are abiding in him if we are to continue in our own ways. Yeah.

This is how I'm interpreting and and that we could could be condemned and withered and cast into fire.

Okay, now we'll go through this too, but I'm going to show you an argument that proves we can't lose salvation. I'm going to prove it later, okay, different way. But let's deal with this. One of the things a lot of people don't understand is that Jesus was not sent. to the whole world.

He was not sent to the Gentiles. he was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Matthew fifteen twenty four. That's what he said, Matthew 15, 24.

Now, the house of Israel, we're talking about the covenant people of God, the house of Israel. That's who he was sent to. With the death that he endured. In Hebrews 9:15 through 16, then we have the new covenant in effect. We, the Gentiles, are included in the new covenant because The Jews rejected the Messiah and we were then grafted in.

So that's just a little bit of background.

So he's speaking here. to the Jews. He is speaking to people under the covenant. Because he starts off That he is the vine, he is the vine. This is language from Psalm 80 and Jeremiah 2.

Where Israel is referred to as the vine, and God is the vine dresser.

So he's speaking covenant language to them. Abide in me, verse 4, as a branch cannot bear fruit of itself. If you're going to abide in God, that's where your fruit's coming from. He's talking to the Jews. He's not talking to Bob.

Who's saved and Frank who's not saved. He's talking to Covenant Israel. He said, I'm the vine, and you are the branches. The Jews are going to be saying, Oh my goodness. He is the vine, and you're the branches in him, but God is the vine dresser of the vine, which is Israel.

This is obviously going to cause them to start thinking. He says, Who abides in me and I in him? He bears much fruit.

So you can abide in the covenant of God. You could have Jews be in covenant relationship with God. and go to hell. Because they were not abiding by faith, but by law, they were abiding in various things under covenant requirements. They were keeping covenant boundaries.

You could have people in the Old Testament who were doing covenantal things. Sabbath Rest. Going to the temple offering sacrifices, and they're on the way to hell because they were not justified by faith. Let me get into the particulars there.

So it's possible in that scenario for the Jews to be doing all the right things, abiding in the covenant relationship with the vine dresser because they're the vine. his Israel is, and not be saved. This is the background and language that Jesus is speaking about. If anyone does not abide in me, he's already talked about being the vine and you're the branches. He's thrown away.

He's calling them to abide in him. And if you don't do that, you're going to be lost. He's now shifting from God to himself. This is a claim of this deity.

So if you don't abide in him, that means remain in him. work with any of them, he's thrown away and dries up. And that's what's going on. He says, I'm the vine, verse 5, you're the vine, you're the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he bears much fruit.

For apart from me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me, It means being in him and related to and in him in the salvific sense of redemption, all that.

Well, he's thrown away.

Okay? Very well. What then would be the penalty for a saved Christian who has turned back to his or her old ways and just holds up their sin shield and says, Well, I've got grace, so Here I go, and just pins their ears back and starts running back as the dog returneth to the vomit, so does the fool to his folly. Aside from wanting to please the Lord, what what would prevent that person Or is there are you are you on the belief that if that were to be the case, that person is still saved and still sealed? I believe people can be saved in different levels of repentance.

And I don't talk about this very often, but there was a period of time in my life, even after I got saved. where let's just say in the sheer stupidity of my youth An idiocy. I was in a state of functional rebellion against God where I was not living consistently with my faith. And let's just say the Lord communicated to me he was going to kill me. This is true.

And it says In 1 Corinthians 5:4, in the name of our Lord Jesus, when you were assembled. And I with you in spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus. I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit might be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus. This is in 1 Corinthians 5, when a man was having relations with his father's wife. He says, Deliver him over to Satan, so his soul will be saved.

He's in great sin. but he'll be saved. Because God he says, deliver him over to the destruction of his flesh.

So what we see here I'm not advocating this is okay. No, of course not. It just doesn't work like that. But the issue is that We need to. be very careful about our sin.

And yes. He'll take you out. He can take you out.

Okay, I appreciate that. And I do want to say that I appreciate that two humble men can come together and look at the word and reason together. And I appreciate what you do, and I continue to pray for you and your ministry.

Well thank you, 'cause boy do I need it.

Okay.

Yeah.

I don't know about you. But I'm the biggest sinner I know. I am. I'm the biggest sinner. I've confessed that from the pulpit.

Oh, you're a preacher? I have been. You have been. And I think it will. You and I probably would get along very well, trying to see who can boast in our failures the most and who's the least worthy of anything.

Oh no, that's not bad. I want to win that success, but I think I might.

Well, you know how we men are. We boast in how great we are. We boast in how stupid we are, too. Oh, no, that's nothing. Amen.

Amen.

That's right. And we're saved by grace.

Now can I show you something, all right? Please. All right.

Okay, if you've got time. I've got nobody waiting right now.

So check this out.

So Sin is breaking the law of God. First John 3:4. Sin is lawlessness. Jesus said in our our Father who art in heaven Matthew 6 12 He says Forgive us our debts. The word is ophilema.

It means legal debt. In the parallel of Luke 11:4, he says, Forgive us our sins.

So Jesus Himself. equates sin with legal debt. Equator.

Okay.

That's what he does.

Alright, so Jesus is on the cross in John 1930. Tetelesty, uh it is finished. Tetelesty is a legal statement. It's been found in the Britain on tax receipts. tax receipts in different handwriting.

a legal debt's been paid in full.

Now 1 Peter 2:24 says he bore our sin in his body on the cross.

So our sin was imputed to him. to impute reckon to his account. Here's the thing, fir in Colossians 2.14. he himself is he cancel or having cancelled the certificate of debt, Now, the word certificate of debt in English is the single Greek word kerographon. Handwritten IOU of legal indebtedness.

It says, right before that, in the last few words in the previous verse, having forgiven us all of our sins, verse 14, having canceled the certificate of debt.

So Paul is teaching that our sins are forgiven, our debt is forgiven. The sin debt's forgiven. He's forgiven us our sins, having canceled the certificate of debt. consisting of decrees against us which was hostile to us, that is, the law itself. Don't lie.

You've lied. You got sinned at. The law is satisfied in Christ. That's a whole nother thing. But he cancelled the sin debt, having nailed it to the cross.

Because it says Having cancelled the certificate of debt, consisting of decrees which is hostile to us, he took it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

So the question I ask people is, when is your syndicate cancelled? And the answer has to be simple. At the cross. And to cross It's not canceled when you believe. Amen.

That's right. It's not canceled when you believe. I do have a tear going down my cheek right now, and I want to tell you I appreciate what you shared to everybody tonight, and I'll share as well. The Lord dealt with me similarly in 2017, but I did get God smacked, and I'd be glad to share in great detail. I know we don't have time tonight, it doesn't look like Um but Uh that's real.

That's that's all real. His love for us is real. His love is real. He gave me this. He gave me a mortal wake-up call.

On a day where I asked for it. Uh Be careful what you ask for. Boy. That's a man of experience. Again.

Like I warn people You ask God to use you, get ready. You ask God to do that. Get ready. Yeah.

Yes, sir. And he won't leave us alone and he'll discipline us. And then he's always ready with open arms. And if He atoned for our sins in Cantal or Synded at the cross, you can't undo, by your sin, what He finished so long ago. or secure in him.

Doesn't mean he's not going to discipline us. doesn't mean he's not there, like a good parent, dealing with us. I know, I've experienced it. I say my celestial four by four in heaven is very thin and round. Gods use it a lot on men.

That's right. Amen.

Well, again, I just wanna I wanna thank you and and uh And keep doing what you're doing, and I keep praying there's very few voices of truth. out there and especially the reach that you have. I I appreciate what you do.

Well, praise God just pray that He would increase that reach for His glory. And that my word would fall on deaf ears, and that his words would sink into the hearts of his people. That's what I pray every day. All right.

That's right. Amen.

Okay.

Alright, well God bless, brother. God bless. God bless you. Bye. You know, um I know a lot of you out there listening can relate to this.

We only have a minute in the show. Let me just say. God loves you like a very firm strong parent. who's also incredibly forgiving and patient. It is both sides of him you will see in your sin.

And he will let you have your sin. to break you.

So that you will Open your heart to Him and trust in Him. because he's so loving and kind.

So If you are in the midst of a struggle, in the midst of great sin, my advice to you is get on your knees. Open your heart. Weep before him, confess your sins. and receive the forgiveness. For no matter what you've done, from abortion.

Even to adultery, Even to theft. Even a murder. He is the great forgiver. come to him. Trust in Jesus, give yourself to Him, be ready for a ride of cleansing.

and truth, It's worth it, but it's not always easy, but it's good. Receive him. Receive the forgiveness completely. Trust it. If you already have done that, then do it again all the more.

Amen.

Hey folks, we're out of time. May the Lord bless you by his grace. We're back on the air tomorrow by his grace. And we'll talk to you then. Have a great evening.

God bless you. Another program powered by the Truth Network.