Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Mm-hmm. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Um it did include the loop. Um, so that would be include the apocryphal text. Yes.

So the Masoretic text didn't include the apocryphal books, but the Septuagint did. And so the Eastern Orthodox will want to use the Septuagint because they they think it means it's th those books are inspired, but they're not.

Okay, um but but so so because 'cause um it was Was it always 66 books? And then the Catholic Church added. No, at first, there was no books. And then there was Job, it was probably written first. And then maybe the the Pentateuch.

Then there were six books, and then there was later added on to God's Word throughout. the centuries as God worked in the Old Testament So we had 39 books. But the Jews, they had 22 instead of 39, like we do, because they combined certain books, like 1 Kings, 2 Kings, as one.

So where we would divide them, it's still exact same content. They just divided them up differently, so they had twenty-two instead of thirty-nine.

So, it's the same number of words, just arranged differently.

So, the Jews, according to Romans 3:2, are the ones who are given the oracles of God.

So, they recognized the scriptures and they did not. the apocryphal books. The EO and the RC do, but they're denying the um The right and the calling of the Jews, and the calling by God, to give them the scriptures, and they did not accept the apocryphal books.

Okay?

So at that point, before the New Testament was written, there were 39 books, you know, 22 if you go to the Old Testament-style Jews. And that's all it was. It did not include the apocryphal books, okay?

Okay, just one more quick question.

So I was talking to an EO guy, right? And so he would say that, oh, He said that uh the 'cause I told him, you know, the the commandments and but he said, why did God tell Moses to make a uh an icon of a cherubim, the image of a cherubim? Because do you have Is it? Yeah, sorry. I'm sorry.

Go ahead, Mike. Yeah, no, because um even when you have uh accidents um th twenty three, where it talks about no image in heaven and stuff. Yeah.

So the EEO and the RC use this argument.

Well, God commanded the creation of images, so images are okay to use in worship. But when God commanded that they be made, He commanded it to be done, and He commanded it to be in the temple that represents the things dealing with His glory, His presence, His work. All right, I guess we're on now. We had a little bit of an issue there. I had to reboot the Comrex.

That does happen. I haven't been on for a a couple of weeks. Two and a half weeks or so, and I would need to confirm that I am on the air.

So, Keith, if you could just confirm that by typing yes on the You can okay, good, thanks, Brenner.

Alright, so um today's date is uh December 8th. 2025, I want to thank everybody for your patience and prayers. Um My wife passed away uh two weeks ago tomorrow. And um It was kind of sudden. She had a long illness, and then it took her quickly.

And for all of you who prayed, I want to say thank you. It's been rough. It's been tough. I don't recommend it. I don't like it.

And I've only cried about 50 times. And uh it's just it's horrible. And um yeah that's the nature of Of sin in the world, is the effect on all kinds of things uh for those of you who don't know My wife had a rare connective tissue disorder, and she was in a lot of pain, a lot of suffering. for the uh just a long time and uh She's now with the Lord and By God's grace, I'll get to see her again sometime.

So, um Again, for all of you who prayed, all of you who Who found out? I want to say thank you. and I should be able to get to the show. I don't know why it's a little bit a little bit of emotional doing this right now. Uh but that's just how it is.

So by God's grace we'll move forward. And uh There we go. Let's get to Jermaine from California. Welcome, brother. You're on the air.

Hey, God bless you, man. Welcome back. Thank you.

Well Yeah, I wanted to discuss with you Genesis chapter one, verse fourteen.

Okay. Um about signs and wonders in the sky. And What brings me to that question is many years ago, I read a book by a man, I think it was E. Raymond, the captain. It was called.

the witness to the star or the witness of the stars, something like that. And I was very fascinated by how not astrology Good. astronomy and Just the constellations seeming to be like the gospel in the sky and And how past generations may have had this knowledge, but we seem to have lost a lot of it. Would you be able to elaborate on that in any ways just because as I look and see a lot of what Is in the sky when we, when I was a kid, that's what you did. You looked at the stars, now everybody's distracted and stuff, but.

It seems to at least spell out what looks like a gospel message. through the constellations. I just wanted to hear what you had to say about it. Yeah, I'm familiar with it, and I've known about it for many, many years. The Virgin, Virgin Birth, Virgo, there's a difference, there are more than twelve constellations.

And uh they do, they spell out the gospel uh from ancient Jewish Um Excuse me, ancient Jewish customs. And I thought about doing an article on it, but it's so rarely discussed. I haven't really focused on it. I do have the book someplace. I I d I got it someplace.

And it goes through.

So apparently in the constellations, each one, there are individual names of the stars. And the individual names carry the message of the theme of what's going on in each constellation. And it actually teaches the incarnation, the deity of Christ, the virgin birth. uh atonement of sins and everything in the stars. And so that's all I can tell you.

I haven't gone through in great detail to look at it, but I am quite familiar with it. Yep.

Okay, yeah, this um For me, this is actually why I do believe the gospel message and and that the Bible is what it is because these every time I think I know something, I I find myself having to go back and Realizing how God had something there from the very beginning and I just missed it. And it did arms. you know in light of family events and all the stuff going on with all of us, it just really gives me hope. And lets me know that at that you'd be really foolish to think something like that was just done by simple evolution and accident and chances that I just don't contemplate how people could not attribute that to the creator because you know, that message is very inspiring and fascinating. And actually, I feel quite dumb by the time I'm done thinking I'm smart, I'm like, oh, wow, I completely didn't see this.

So Yeah, it just really just just magnifies my faith. Yeah, it's by a guy named Bollinger, and he also did a book. I on the tabernacle. And how it points to Christ. These are two books worth getting.

Bullinger, B-U-L-L-I-N-G-E-R. And um So it's not as though he is looking at the constellations and then making it up to make it fit. but there's actual evidence from ancient Jewish writings. And uh it's very interesting.

So, uh I remember something, yeah, Sagittarius, the dual-natured conqueror. I'm looking at some research here. Pisces, the fish, multitude of the church swimming. uh the church there and and just various things.

So It's worth looking into, along with the The tabernacle. The tabernacle, people don't realize how detailed it is in relationship to. The person and work of Christ. as well. It's it's really very interesting.

At any rate, yep, I'm familiar with it.

Okay. Okay, yeah, I'm about to go, but you know, I feel even more foolish because that that's actually the Bible I I uh recommended. Or asked a question about, and I have upstairs the author of the Companion Bible. I completely forgot. He wrote that book, too.

Oh, good.

Okay, well, there you go. Yeah.

Yep, good stuff. Good stuff, man. Good stuff. All right. All right.

All right. Well, thanks a lot, Matt. Talk to you soon. How blessed, remain. Thank you.

Alright. Hey folks, if you want to give me a call, the number's easy. 877-20722 7-6. You can give me a call. Let's get to Scott from Spokane, Washington.

Scott, welcome. You are on the air. Hey buddy, how's it going? What's going, man? Doing radio.

So what do you got, buddy? Good, good. Glad to have you back.

So, my question here. It's in, I don't know if I messed up by saying 2 Peter, but it's actually out of Acts. I got confused with another question.

So This goes into talking about um Basically, the context here, let me find where I'm at. Acts chapter 7. Uh verse It says, But God turned away and delivered them up to serve the host of heaven. And it goes into talking about the idolatry Molech and things like that.

So, my question is, and it seems like this: are these. Excuse me, is the Bible talking about that these people were basically worshiping demons. when it t when 'cause it says uh the hosts of heaven. God turned them away to s to serve the hosts of heaven.

Well, you know, I have to look at it, but my Bible program Just kind of Froze a little bit. Let's see if I can get it. There we go. All right. Whew.

Okay. Um So, I was a little distracted because my computer, my program's frozen. I needed to get to it, so I was focusing on that.

So, could you repeat your question? My apologies. Yeah, so um Acts chapter seven um verse forty-two is where it The verse starts. It's talking about idolatry. The context is the Israelites making the golden calf and worshiping idols.

And it says in verse 42: But God turned away and delivered them up to serve the hosts of heaven. And so I'm just wondering, it calls them hosts of heaven here. Is it talking about just them serving demons, fallen angels or something like that? Ah, that's a good question. It might be.

I have to do some research on that to see. It's a good question. Uh It's a judicial act of God, turned them away and delivered them up to serve.

Now, the word look at this: to worship the host of heaven. Interesting, as it is written in the book of Proverbs. It was not to me that you offered your victims and sacrifices forty years wilderness. You also took along the tabernacle of Moloch. It's a judgment.

Yeah, it looks like it's a judgment that they were. Ultimately, all false gods are demonic. And so I would say that this is dealing with that. It looks like it's also a reference out of the Old Testament, of course. Um right interesting.

So uh I have Amos 525.

So, yeah, I think it might be just that very thing of worshiping the demonic forces like the Mormons do. the Catholics do th with Mary and um you know, Islam with uh Allah.

So it might fit. Yeah, it might fit. Yeah, because the first thing I think of is, you know, God gave them over to a debased mind. But, you know, I noticed some other things, too. The very same.

terminology so one's in second peter and another's in jude Jude is verse 8, and 2 Peter is 2, verse 10. And they both talk about Worshiping, blaspheming, glorious ones. That's the term, glorious ones. And it's the same for the other term.

So I'm finding three places in scripture, all having to do with judgment and all serving or. uh worshiping glorious ones or the heavenly hosts. Yeah, which implies that they're in contact with them and something's going on there. Hold on, they've got a break, okay, buddy. We'll be right back.

Hello, folks. After these messages, please stay tuned. Back down with Scott's. and looks like uh Charles of Menrich, was right back to. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Alright, everyone, welcome back to the show if you want to give me a call. On this lovely December 8th day, all you got to do is dial 877-20-72276. Scott. You still there, brother?

I sure am.

Okay. Yeah, so during the break, I've looked a little bit, and yeah, I think you're onto something there. The verses do talk about. Um Serving angelic realms, the demonic forces that seek to imitate the true and living God. and have deceived so many people, like the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses.

The Muslims in various forms. And also, I believe, in Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, in the idolatry of Mary. That it's uh that they're serving demonic manifestations in these so-called apparitions and stuff like that.

So, yeah, it it's there. Um, it's there. Good good call on your part. Yeah, I just found it kind of interesting that I didn't even realize until just now when I'm looking at my question list that my last three questions all randomly or you know, had to do with the same thing. And then I while I'm waiting to get to get put on the radio, I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute, these are all using the same term and it's all the same context generally.

Um so yeah, that's pretty interesting. Um you know if you have time for one Sure. Yeah, no, it's really.

So, yeah, Mark. Um Uh excuse me, Acts 436.

Okay. And in my question note here, I'm just the question is: is this the same Barnabas that's you know, friends with Paul. Uh I don't know. Uh that one I'd I'd have to look. Uh It probably is.

Probably is. But I couldn't tell you. Because they do have common names and they be just be you know, even there's other names of Jesus and Mary and Joseph, as we know in the Bible.

So we just have to check it out and see if it's the same one. I don't know. And because I don't think we could find out for sure. Because it doesn't tell us for sure any definitive markings. But you know, he's also called Barnabas by the apostles, which translated son of encouragement.

So, you know, we can draw the conclusion, it probably is. Probably. But not necessarily.

Okay. Okay. Well, yeah.

Well, thank you. I just wanted to say before I go, the offer still stands. If you want me to send you out an order of. food or whatever, have it delivered, just let me know, my friend. Appreciate it.

Uh yeah, I'm cooking and cleaning and and going through and uh Just doing all I gotta do in the house, been doing a lot of purging, a lot of cleaning, and occupying. Things and uh and stuff like that.

So I'm good, you know, I'm good. But uh they do appreciate it, butter. Yeah.

Well, I love you and have a great day. Amen. Thanks a lot. Appreciate that.

Okay. Bye-bye. Bye. All right, let's get to Charles from Ohio. Charles, welcome here on the air, brother.

Hi, um I just wanted to I'm so sorry about the loss of your wife, but I rejoice with you that you and have that confidence that you'll see her again. Yeah.

We have to make reservations. She's got so much better place in heaven off to, you know, it'll take a while. You know, I can make reservations, go up and see her. when I get there. Yeah.

Yeah.

My m my my wife and I will be married uh fifty-nine years uh December December twenty ninth and uh she you know, it's just uh you get so close and it's you know, like the Bible says, you're one flesh and it it's tough. I'm sure. I I I feel deeply for you.

Well, thank you. It was something I've been preparing for for years, and in the past few weeks, before her passing. even more so because it was obvious that she was declining more rapidly. And then it's an interesting little bit of a story in that suddenly we had an opening for a doctor's appointment and because of that, Heidi said, the doctor said, You need to get in right now and go get checked on something. And she would have passed away that night, either here at the house or the next night.

And she was on life support and we were able to get the family all flew in. to be able to say goodbye.

So we consider that to be a blessing in that sense. Yes, of course. And we spent our 39-year-old. We had our 39-year anniversary, and I see you.

So You know? But praise God, you've been married 59. You know, praise God. That's a good testimony. And praise God.

And. Yeah, it's wonderful to hear. Yeah, absolutely, praise God. But I had a question. I just wanted to ask.

your view uh of uh lordship uh what what is referred to as lordship, salvation, and why you believe uh what you believe about it.

Well, it depends on how it's defined. As I tell people, always define your terms first. And there are variations within theological circles on what lordship salvation means. And there's two extremes. We could say, not extreme as necessarily bad, but the two opposing views on different sides of the scale would be.

That you can't be saved unless Jesus is Lord of every area of your life. And the other one is that Uh That he becomes automatically the Lord of your life, and he's just Lord, and you're just realizing it. That's the one I hold to.

So, when anybody would say to me that you have to make him Lord of your life in all areas in order to be truly saved, I reject that. We don't make him Lord. He is Lord. It's not our effort that makes him in that position. And we need to, though, seek him in every area of our life.

And when we fail, which we do regularly, then we are to lay before the Lord Jesus and just submit to him more and more. And so he is Lord by definition. But we are not to make him Lord in order to be saved or to stay saved. That's too close to work righteousness. No, he is Lord by the fact of his existence and him saving us.

And then we're manifesting his Lordship in our lives in this troublesome troublesome. troublesome uh thing called sanctification. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Be um Yeah, I just have so much trouble with continually failing at the same thing over and over again for such a long time, and it just really It just really overwhelms me sometimes. Man. You you and I could sit down.

and compare Sin notes and their failures. Absolutely. You know, all I can say is God is gracious, God is loving, God is patient, God is kind, He chose us, He redeems us, He keeps us, even though He knows us so thoroughly and completely. And we will continue to fail. Not that we want to, and not that it's okay, but we're going to because we're just not perfect.

And all it shows me is how good God is, not how good I am. Yeah.

He is the Lord. That's right. He's so good. Amen. Amen.

Amen to that. Amen. Thank you.

Yeah, hallelujah. Hallelujah is right. Duque, well, thank you. God bless you. God bless you, and congrats on 59 years of marriage.

That is just impressive. Praise God, brother. Yeah, praise God. Thank you.

Alright, but we gotta go.

Alright. Hey folks, if you want to give me a call, the number is 87720-722-7600. right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Alright. And welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call on this lovely December 8th, The number is 8772072276. And uh was off for a while. Back on.

Let's get to Ryan from Pennsylvania. Ryan, welcome. You're on the air. Um hello, Matt. Over the years, you and I have had a lot of disagreements about a lot of things, but this is one of those times to set those things aside.

And I wanted to extend my condolences to you over the passing of your wife.

Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate it. It's been very difficult and uh Um Yeah. Yeah.

But I do appreciate that one. Yeah, and I wish you and the rest of your family all the best, okay? Yeah, I appreciate it. Seriously. Thank you.

All right, take care. All right, man. God bless. Fire. All right.

Um Yeah, I could talk about my wife and uh What she went through. Let me just say that. I've all the people I've ever known, I used to work at a hospital, all the people I've ever known, I've never known anybody to suffer physically as much as her. I am just so glad that God has Uh seemed fit to allow her to enter into his presence. And one day we'll meet again, and that's the hope of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

because he rose from the dead, than we will if we're in Christ. we will see our loved ones again. And I know there are a lot of people out there. Who have lost loved ones, and your hearts are still aching. Oh, manic, you relate.

And All I can say is death is a rude visitor. It comes into our lives crashing. and it destroys and Um It just breaks things. Leaves damage and pain and suffering, and then leaves. And we've got to be the ones to clean it up.

And it's just hard. And I relate to that and to all of you who don't have the ability to. To be able to talk about it on the radio or stuff, but you have the ability through your friends. Um And I got some advice for people. Uh I've had a lot of people.

a lot of people in the past two weeks giving condolences. And I got some advice for those of you who want to do that. I'm going to say this very generically. Don't say too much. Don't try and offer.

anything. Don't try and say, yeah, I know how you feel. Unless you have lost a spouse. Don't try and compare it to anything like losing a pet. Don't Uh Don't offer Uh any Um Anything other than something like this.

I'm really sorry. And I'm grieving with you. And that that's about it.

So many people try and offer words of comfort.

Well, you'll see her in the resurrection. It's true. But what they're trying to do is and lovingly is steer our hearts to good things. But let me just tell you that in the the center of the storm of the wound, That um Trying to cheer somebody up. and encourage them At least with me.

It isn't a good thing to do. Uh the people who are wounded so severely in their hearts. are so sensitive. that It's best if you don't offer too much. Just sit with them.

You know, weep with them. Give him a hug. Just tell them you're sorry, you're hurting with them. And You know what? Just say as minimally uh what you can.

I've had the displeasure of losing a wife. of losing a son. And over the years, the different things that have been said well-intentioned and that's how I take them. I always take them that way, well-intentioned. And that's how I receive them.

I always filter everything through that. through that that desire from others to comfort. And so that's how I interpret it. And that's how I take it. But I can tell you.

That if you have someone that you know is going to go through this or just has. trying to offer too much. Just love them. Don't try and offer solutions or hope. Uh too much.

unless y you know, you you know 'em and you can say it, you know your friends and stuff like that. But Um You know, It's as hard as it is. and we're so sensitive at that time. that um Especially to say as little as possible and show as much as possible your grief with them. Yeah.

with hugs, with tears. And um That's a thing. That's what ministers Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh tough stuff. We got a call coming in, but I wanted to talk about something that kind of came up today. Kurt Cameron has apparently adopted annihilationism or conditional torment. And uh he and I have spoken before. And I have his cell number, at least it's been a couple of years or a few years since we talked.

And I texted him today. I haven't gotten a response back. And so I'm hoping that he will respond and we can talk. and I can go through the issues of um Of annihilationism and its logical problems and biblical problems, because I've written a great deal on it, studied a great deal. And so I know that a lot of you may be aware of this already: that he's come out, and people have been saying this, and letting people know, yeah, I'm familiar with it.

Um Um You know, we'll just see. We'll we'll just see. And and that reminds me that reminds me of of of all things. Um With comfort. a day or two after my wife's passing.

Excuse me, hiccup there, a day or two after, he contacted me and was very supportive and. uh you know it's very nice uh and I really appreciate that.

So uh 'cause I've met him a few times and and he's a good man of God. And so, uh Man.

Okay. There's so much to deal with, you know?

So anyway, for those of you who have lost loved ones, boy, do you have my sympathy. Yeah, my sympathy and uh Words just fail. That's all I can say. Let's get to Pearl from Virginia. Pearl, welcome.

You're on the air. Thank you, sir.

Okay. I started to say I wanted to share something with you, but I'll not take up your time. What I want to ask you one time when I was listening to you and I like to listen to you, the Lord God Almighty speaks through you. That's the highest compliment I can give to anybody. Um You said something Derogatory.

about Watchman Knee. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. And I've always liked Watchman Nee and thought that he was v As close to the Lord Jesus as anybody could be. And I was wondering. Wh what did you find wrong? There are a few things that are problematic.

He's a trichotomist, which is not heretical. It's what you do with trichotomy. Trichotomy says that the human being is body, soul, and spirit. And so that true spiritual development is based on understanding that, believing that, and then working through that. And so what he's doing there mistakenly is rejecting the dichotomous view.

And I'm not saying one or the other is is perfectly correct, but uh he he gets into that kind of needless division as a foundation for uh for spiritual development. He uh would reject denominations. And that's okay. But uh He did not go with elder leadership, which is necessary because that's what the Bible teaches. 2 Corinthians 5:17, Titus chapter 1, and 1 Timothy 3.

And so uh There were some cult-like uh behaviors Uh And and I'll tell you my experience when I went to the church once to check things out. Also, there's a hint of modalism. That's there. And I don't know what the later view is.

So, background, I lived in Southern California. I went to the local church and I went there and interviewed them. uh first off because I've been hearing things and I went there and I remember it c well. And a person met with me and it was a good conversation and it seemed pretty good. For the most part, I know how to ask the right questions.

And I remember that basically was okay. And then I got an email from them. Uh the email thanked me for my politeness talking to them. And I remember this email very well because in it they talked about how they had to sue people. Who didn't uh who said negative things about them.

and that I wouldn't be like that, of course.

So it was a hidden threat against me to make sure that I didn't say anything negative against him. And that's what it was. And so uh that's cult-like uh stuff. And um So there's also uh You would get present revelations, which depends on what they are and how. How true it just Because of the charismatic gifts, we can get things like word of knowledge, word of wisdom.

But some people will say they get revelations from God. God tells them things. This is problematic. And also a deeper life in perfectionism. And so these all have problems associated with them.

On the edges of the doctrine, when they all blur together, can become um bad. Hey, hold on, Pearl, okay, we got a break coming up. Folks, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877207. 2276, be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to this show. If you want to give me a call, we have two open lines: 877-207-2276. Pearl, uh, you're back on the air.

Okay. Um, sir, I would um All of that that that you came that you just told me concerning Washman Knee, I couldn't begin to lay hold of it. You'll mind. Yeah, let me summarize it then. Let me summarize they're they're they sue people.

They don't believe in really eldership leading. They teach that there's only supposed to be one true church per city. They are against the nominations. They're basically emphasizing that they have the truth more than others because only one true local church is supposed to be there. in a city.

which means that their view is above other views? And this is cultic, cult-like behavior. Yes, it is. I've read enough to know that. Thank you, sir.

And I have one other question. Are you familiar with Micah. Van Huss. No. No.

He has a new book art called Angels. Eternal.

Okay. I think that's wondering. Uh uh Um It's about the unknown. Yeah, not for known. Anyway, it was I heard.

Just the last ten minutes of I've forgotten the church's name. Um It's put out by Beacon Street. Press.

Well, I don't l let's I would since I don't know if the book's good or bad, I really don't um want to. Yeah, I don't I can't approve or disapprove. I just don't know. And sometimes people come on and want to push a book and it might not be good. I don't know.

But I mean, I'm not pushing it to you. I just wondering what. But you would think of it as what I mean. Yeah, I don't I don't know. I got it it got so many so much to do that I just don't know.

Okay. Mm.

Well Okay. You you've never heard of it. I don't know if I've heard of it or not. I don't recall it right now, but sometimes people tell me things and then I forget. I just remember.

The man that is a member, and I've forgotten what the name of the church is. Anyway. He said he's a Bible-believing Christian who came to know Christ as his Savior at seven years old.

Okay. While studying computer science said Pensacola Christian College. Micah developed a personal relationship with God. Like I said, don't know. I don't know.

And so that's it. Don't know.

Okay?

All right. Well, I I so appreciate all of your hard work and study.

Okay, all right.

Well, thanks, Pearl. And my heart bleeds for you with you l losing your precious Other half. Yeah, she's a She was a good woman, except for her uh taste in men, but other than that she's good. Her taste in what? Men.

Oh, yeah. You know, I just couldn't trust her judgment because she married someone like me.

So that's why. Listen at you.

Well, you know, she was a very good looking woman. He's going to marry somebody like us. Yeah, wow, yeah. But back in the day, she was a very good looking woman, seriously. A lot of people are shocked when they see pictures of her when she's younger.

And they look and me, I look like a bag of logs. And uh, she chose me.

So, um, that's what it was.

So Jeff for her taste of men, she's a good woman. All right, Pearl? Do you mind me sharing something with you? It'll take a few minutes.

Well, actually, we got callers waiting when you get to them. Call back tomorrow and we can talk, okay? All right. Thank you.

Bye-bye. Okay. Thanks, Pearl. God bless. All right, now let's get to the next longest waiting is Philip?

Okay. From Indiana. Philip, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, how are you doing?

Hi, thank you. First, I gotta say, this is a huge blessing to come across your station. I am. I'm a service technician in the fueling industry, and it is sometimes hard to find. station, so I just start seeking, hit the seek button.

And yours came up as soon as I left the job site on my three-hour drive home. And I just feel good. Yeah, I've had a couple questions that I feel like you're the guy to talk to.

So. The first question I had is: with Kurt Cameron talking about annihilism. I've heard the word used before, and I've not had a whole lot of time to realize Watch the news when you come to today just with the word schedule. What exactly is an alism and what exactly is the harm with it? And please excuse my my indirectness.

You're breaking up. I want to know.

Sorry.

Sorry.

Yeah, it's called Annihilationism. Or conditional. Yeah, and I've written, I don't know if you've heard of my website, carm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, but I've written about 182 articles related to just annihilationism. Most of them are just word studies where I did some serious study. Annihilationism is the teaching that when someone dies, their eternal judgment is non-existence.

So instead of continuing on in eternal punishment, they are annihilated. They cease to exist. And this is what Kirk Cameron has just apparently updated or adopted, excuse me.

Well I talked to Kirk a few years ago, so I had a cell number and I texted him this morning. And saying, hey, Kirk, man, this is Matt. Let's talk about this if you're interested.

So we'll see if he responds. And I'd like to talk to him about it because it's a bad view, it's a false view. And there's some logical as well as biblical problems. Yeah.

And in the video he posted, does he state why he's come to that? Because I guess by hearing you explain what it is, it really shocks me. For him to kind of take that view as, I mean, he was the name in our household growing up that. It it was kind of someone we really looked up to. Yeah, he's a good man.

I've talked to him, and he's a very godly man. I will just say that flat out. Our conversations, I won't tell you what our conversation was. Years ago, but I was very impressed with him in that conversation and his holiness before God.

So absolutely is a good man and trustworthy. And now, just so you note, annihilationism does not mean someone's not a Christian. You can have that view. It's an incorrect view. You can have that view and still be saved.

And so I don't doubt his salvation at all or his dedication to the Lord Jesus Christ. But it's a in my opinion, annihilationism is a feel-good theology because the idea of eternal torment is just very difficult for people to deal with. And so, what they'll say, in some reasons, and some will try and make it biblical, too. I can get into this in details, but at any rate, so there are logical problems which I present to the annihilationists, and they're not able to answer them. And uh at least there let me just put it this way, their answers aren't very good.

They try and answer them, they claim they can answer them, but they're logistically problematic. Because there are some serious issues. For example, I did intensive and extensive studies on the word punishment, and different forms of that in Hebrew and Greek, in the Old New Testament. And punishment is always experienced.

So, to say that punishment is being annihilated, that's non-existence, you don't experience anything.

So, how is punishment? Really, non-existence because punishment is experienced. This is just a basic biblical principle.

So what the what the annihilationists are saying is the punishment is you not existing anymore. The judgment, and I say, Well, that's not that's not punishment, that's just nothing. You're not punished into nothingness. There's no experience, there's no actuality, there's no nothing.

So, how's it punishment? Because that's not the biblical model. And then they have the words destroy and. uh LUO and uh Fiami, they have different things that they they will use in different ways. And I show them how the words have many meanings in different contexts and uh even how the words uh I can get into a lot of details.

But uh it's problematic, okay? All right. That it's a and maybe I'm maybe I'm Hopefully, I'm not speaking out of term, but like hearing that explanation of it. it kind of goes along with some of the stuff I've seen with some personal leaders in in my life that I've seen that it seems like the enemy is definitely definitely attacking people That I've always looked up to as being strong leaders, and kind of it almost seems like it's kind of like weakening their mindset of. of good and evil.

to make evil seem less Like, like less horrible, and it it scares me. It really scares me of. Yeah, it it that's true. It's there, yeah.

So, my second question, I'm hoping this is going to be a quick answer. I know you've got plenty of people waiting. With my the last statement of saying that it kind of scares me seeing good, solid leaders that I've looked up to over my years kind of seemingly starting to fall into some of these just unbiblical traps I look at my kids. I'm a dad. I've got two young children with my wife.

They're the best blessing I've ever had. And I I tear up because I I I don't I I never feel like I've really ever deserved them. There we go. It's a long story, but with that, what scares me is that I am not rooted. In the word as much as I know it should be.

to be that leader. to make sure that I'm not leading them astray. what do you recommend doing as far as how to get in more to study it, not just read it like a book, but to study it effectively? How old are your kids? Just curious.

The youngest are eight and ten, and then I adopted my wife's two teenagers whenever we first got married, and so they're twenty four and twenty two.

Okay. All right. Well, let me just tell you what you do. I'm not the best example of that. My children.

I've abandoned the faith. And uh one of them has done horrendous things uh in with her life. And um So, I can't speak from confidence. This is how great things are going to be. I have talked to others.

who have led their children, their families in the Lord and have abandoned the faith as well.

So I don't know what's going on, but nevertheless. what your responsibility is as a Christian man, I can tell you this, biblically. It is to lead your family in the ways of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's what I did. Uh but we're gonna fail.

And you are responsible as the head of the house, whether you like it or not. You're the captain of the ship. When Adam and Eve were in the garden, she sinned first, then Adam sinned. They both hid themselves. The pre-incarnate Christ came and said, to the man, Where are you?

He didn't say Eve, what have you done? He didn't say Adam and Eve. What have you done? He said to the man, Where are you? Because we, as the heads of the family, are responsible.

So, what you got to do. is to get on your knees and just ask God to strengthen you. And to lead you through the foolishness of your own sin. And Somehow to lead your family properly. But you've got to understand something.

I've talked to so many people about this over the years. that our responsibility as fathers is not to be perfect. We try. Boy, do we fail and that we ask God to to help and to guide. And let them see your failures, let them see your mistakes, in the sense of.

Before the Lord, yeah, I made a mistake here, and I talked to Jesus, and I'm forgiven. I'm working here, you know, things like this that are good and wise for them to see. and lead them in devotions, and you don't have to be perfect. You don't have to have like you know, a master the divinity or be ordained. You don't need that.

You need to open the word. and just lead them through stories lead them through that And just try. And just ask God. To guide and to anoint your words. Let them see the love you have for them.

Let them see it and experience it. We are out of time. There's the music and a reality. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to.

I didn't mean to. It's okay, brother. It's okay. Call back tomorrow, okay? Call back tomorrow and we can talk to you.

I will. I appreciate you, and you have a great night. YouTube letter. God bless. All right.

Hey folks, that's just how it goes. May the Lord bless you by his grace back on here tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. Another program powered by the Truth Network.