Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everybody, welcome to the show. You're listening to Matt Slick Live. I'm your host, Matt Slick If. You want to give me a call? All you have to do is dial 877.

207 to 276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call and we can blab. All right, we got nobody waiting right now. If you also are interested in um In an email.

I'm just thinking a couple of things. If you want to do an email, you can send an email to info at CARM.

So, what happened? I put a new power supply in my computer today and So everything's fine, everything's working. And then when I go to work on the computer, I have a microphone that the light comes on, and that's not coming on now, but it's working.

So that really threw me for a curve right through the last bit and uh everything else was working. All right, having said all of that, I want to talk to you.

So we have two open lines. We've got two callers coming in: 877-207. Two two seven six. And you can email me, like I said, at info at carm.org. Info at CARM.org.

Put in the subject line, radio comments, radio question, and then we can. We can get to it. All right, let's get to, let's see, David from North Carolina. Dave, welcome. You're on the air.

Hi, how you doing? I'm doing all right, man. Hanging in there. What's that? Um Yes.

I want to ask you a question about Acts chapter nineteen.

Okay. Uh in verse I think is Second, first, second. burst out when Paul F He found some disciples in Ephesus, and he says, He asked some um about you have believed Uh have you received the Holy Spirit? And they didn't know what he's talking about, but They were rebaptized. And he asked us, since you believed Well, does that insinuate that they were saved?

Because they had bull They were believers.

Well, it's an interesting question because there's a bit of theology wrapped around this. Yeah.

So All right. When we go to John chapter 3, it talks about Jesus telling the Telling Simon, I mean, telling the Pharisee. you must be born again. And a lot of people think that that means when it says born of water in the Spirit, that the water means baptism. But if it does mean baptism, then the only baptism that it could have been at that time was John the Baptist's baptism.

Now, if that's the case, this ties in with Acts 2:38, where it says, Repent and believe, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus. For the forgiveness of your sins.

So the phrase, for the forgiveness of your sins, is uh is ace uh office in hermertion. in Greek. And it is exactly that same phrase used in Mark 1.4 and Luke 3.3, where it says John's baptism was a baptism uh for repentance, uh for the forgiveness of your sins.

Now, okay, having said all that, if John's baptism forgave them of their sins. Then there's no need. to be rebaptized. And so, when it says John's baptized with baptism of repentance, telling people to believe in him who is coming.

So the baptism is an identification.

So, it's an identification with what John the Baptist was doing.

So, you can go to 1 Corinthians 10:2, where it says they're baptized into Moses when they pass through the Red Sea. And we're baptized into Christ. John 6 talks about this.

So we get a lot of stuff that's floating around all of this.

So, having said that, into what were you baptized? John's baptism. That baptism was a baptism of repentance, but not related to the true Christian baptism. And so John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling people to believe in him who was coming. When they'd heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

So now we have two baptisms, one of of John the Baptist. And The other in the name of Jesus, which is the Trinitarian baptism.

So This gets into interesting stuff, but I'm not even sure if I'm answering your question yet, because there's just so much background in that.

So, once you repeat the question, and then see if I can clarify. No. Yeah, repeat the question. I'm going to make sure that I'm on the right track with you.

Okay. Yeah.

He says, have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed? And that's what confuses me Well, when we believe, we receive the Holy Spirit. Uh So that kind of confuses me. Why? Would he use that?

Terminology if it's true that we receive the Holy Spirit whenever God sends us.

So we believe in him.

So it happened while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus. And found some disciples. By the way, I've been to Ephesus twice. It's really awesome walking through the streets there. And he said to him, Did you receive the Holy Spirit?

So he's talking about. The reception of that spirit work. And they're saying no, they don't even know about it.

So the spirit is not. relevant to the Uh John the Baptist baptism. And so This is what's really interesting. is It says they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

So There's a lot in the back of my head. I'm trying not to dump too much at once.

So I would just Boiled it down to this. The baptism of John was not a true baptism in the Christian sense. because it was under the old covenant. And it didn't Grant them the Spirit of God. But I agree with you, we receive the Holy Spirit when we are saved.

Here, however, They receive the Holy Spirit. with the laying on of hands.

Now here's a question. Are there two kinds or two manifestations of receiving the Spirit? One is occurs when you're in when you're born again and then the other Yeah. the movement of the charismatic gifts.

So when we go to the Old Testament, we find that the Holy Spirit is prophesied as being poured Poured, poured, poured all the time. And In Joel 2, 28, 29, those verses are referenced in Acts 2, 17 and 18. saying that the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the people was fulfilled.

So it looks like that Acts 2.38 Each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive. the gift of the Holy Spirit. That seems to be The charismatic movement. This is reiterated in Acts ten, forty four through forty eight. when the Gentiles are speaking in tongues, and Peter says That they have already received the Holy Spirit, just as we do, and that was before they got baptized.

So When they heard this, this is Acts 9.5, They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and Paul laid his hands on them.

Now he has apostolic authority. He can do that. The Holy Spirit came on them and they began speaking with tongues. Having said all of this, It looks like what's happening is When you believe the Lord, you're justified. The Holy Spirit lives in you because The whole Trinitarian being lives in you.

And I go through the scriptures on that. But the receiving the Holy Spirit in this sense seems to be in the power of the Spirit's movement upon people. And So, what I see are two manifestations of the Spirit's presence. One is generic. in the soul upon redemption.

and the other is a movement of the charismatic gifts, and it's a sophie with laying on of hands, and sometimes not with laying on of hands. as in Acts 10 44 through 48.

So that's what I think is going on there. Like I said, it's a lot here. Yeah.

Yeah, they're derived. Uh well very confusing to me. I couldn't Mm. Don't have to do it. But yeah, I appreciate the comments and the wider view of being able to see a few things that happen uh considered so But I thought about.

Yeah, that's great. Uh We will never have all the answers on this side, but. But uh God gives us some every once in a while. Yeah.

I'm I'm chickled with what he has to kid me. Skiow.

So, what you're asking is a really good question, and it's one of those few. questions that when you start to answer it You can answer it very simply or unpack it. Uh And by going it very simply, sometimes people aren't convinced because. Because there's a lot more to it. But it looks like there's two movements of the Spirit, one every generation and one in the charismatic sense, and that seems to be going on here.

But the thing I'm hesitant to say that that is what it is, is because they didn't receive the Spirit. But does it mean in the sense of the movement? of the charismatic gifts, receiving the spirit that way, and some call it a second blessing, or baptism of the Holy Spirit.

So The scriptures aren't real clear on it, and that's why Sometimes when people ask me a question, I can't be very precise. I just do the best I can. Here I can. All right. Do you have time for another question or do you want to go to another caller?

Sure, go ahead. Um I think we all want to be correct when we speak biblically um about things And the scripture talks about uh Me and who are we're all we're lost, in a lost condition before regeneration. that he causes lost. Uh The same uh and seek that which is lost.

Well, When we use the word unsaved, That word is not in the scripture. Is it Is it wrong? I don't guess it's wrong to use that word unsaved, is it? I mean, I know what it means. But it's kind of strong.

Yeah.

punch at me like, well, what does that mean? Maine. You're unsaved. How did you get unsaved?

Well, you're born unsaved. I'm born that way.

So, yeah, we're born lost. Because of Adam's sin, we were made sinners, and that's right. Romans 5.19. we are by nature children of wrath. Ephesians uh two three.

So we're born lost. That's just how it is. We're conceived lost because of what Adam did.

Well, do you think we should stick more to scriptural words like lost rather than using words that are not scriptural, such as unsaved? But they both. really have the same meaning. Yeah, it just depends. I mean, like the the term Trinity isn't in the Bible.

or monotheism. Uh-huh. but we use those terms, or hypostatic union, the two natures of Christ.

So yeah, I don't have any problem with saying he's unsaved. But I would say He's more lost. He's not saved and lost. You can say unsaved and lost. Not a big deal.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. Well not quite. But That was no big deal about anything, but I just But Considered it. about it a lot.

Well, it's good thinking. You're asking good questions. Good for you. Oh hard.

Well, Matt, I sure appreciate you and love you and Ah, great. for you and your wife. I know the Lord he has everything Plan to for our very good that those that love him and are called according to its purpose. And I'm I appreciate it.

Well, thank you. I appreciate being appreciated. It's nice, you know. It's nice that we do this for the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's the whole goal.

That's Ram. That's right.

Well yeah. Good.

Okay. Well, thank you so much. You're welcome so much.

Well, God bless. All right. All right, God bless you. Mm-hmm.

All right, hey, we have a break coming up and as soon as we get back to the break, we'll get on with Jamal. We have two open lines, excuse me, three open lines, 877-207-2276. Back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hey everybody, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207- 2276. Let's get on with Jamal from North Carolina. Jamal, amen. Long time no here. Uh no, it's been all of what, what, 20 minutes since we last spoke or something like that?

Yeah, something like that, that's right. That is right. How you doing, man? I'm doing just fine, brother. Thank you for helping me out tremendously.

For those that don't know, Matt Slick called in. for Truth Talk Live yet again. We were talking about the Muslim faith and the dangers and the concerns. And as always, the brother knocked it out of the park. I had a friend that sent me a text message that said thank you for the show, that he learned a whole lot.

So that's all to the glory of God and a lot of credit to Matt Slick. Um since he called in on Masho. I wanted to return the favor and call in on his show. Sure.

So what do you got, buddy? What's up?

Well, I'm going to have to take this answer off the air, but I'll try to listen for it afterwards. Nicholas, stay on, it's no big deal. Stay in the air. What? I would like to, but I'm sitting right in front of our next Bible study and I don't want to be late.

But, you know, I would just put it on a speakerphone. Press the speakerphone and they can all they can all ask questions. Oh, okay. Hey, guys, I know we have a Bible study going on and everything, but I got a phone call I want you all to hear. But you put a pause to it and listen in.

I didn't think you were really gonna do it but but good.

Okay. Right, right. No, it'd be great. It'd be great if they did it. But now I'm I'm I'm gonna have to go, but yeah, I'll try to listen afterwards.

So uh my question is How does one become an apologist? And um I will listen for the answer and God bless you, Messlick, your ministry, and all the listeners out there. All right, brother, God bless and say hi to your Bible study group. All right, what's it take to become an apologist? Mental illness, you got to have ADD or you got to be autistic.

It helps if you're good looking, but it doesn't help in my case. What else? You have to be. Hyper-focused, and you have to have lots of issues.

Now, that's what my wife would tell you. All right, she would just jump on that bandwagon and list out 20, 30 more. But uh What does it take to become an apologist?

Now, an apologist is someone who defends the Christian faith, who goes on the attack as well as on the defense, who will do that.

Now, Let me just say, people have asked me. about this kind of a thing, how to do that. And I tell them that they're going to need to know things like the biblical theology, you're going to need to study it very well. Very well. You're going to need to study logic and you're going to need to study philosophy.

Sorry, but you have to. Because Philosophy is an application of logic. and philosophical ideas are going to be cast it at you. At an apologist, and he's going to have to know what it means. For example, disjunctive syllogism or whether a disjunctive sy syllogism leads to triviality.

Or the idea of indexicals, universals, transcendentals, Leibniz's law of Transitivity of identicals and things like this. You got to get into all kinds of stuff and you got to learn, you know. philosophical terms because the non-Christians will raise these.

So you've got to know that.

Now I say first of all, That you need to study your word. You need to understand the doctrine of the Trinity inside out, backwards, forwards. The hypostatic union, communicatio, idiomatum, and inseparable operations. You need to know those three and how they interrelate. You need to know the difference and integration of justification and sanctification, how they relate to imputation and propitiation.

And so there are lots of things to learn.

So, if I were to teach a course on this, on how to become an apologist, so to speak. I would be teaching a multi- Course. level thing here, getting into the basics of the Christian faith first. Then I'd get into the issues of logic and a little bit of philosophy, and then we'd go into other areas and other disciplines: science, history, archaeology, things like this. And I teach people how to do notes, how to write notes and keep track of everything.

And you have to really be called to do this kind of a thing because. It's not for the average person. It is simply not for the average person. And I'm not kidding when I say that. Like myself, for example, I've been diagnosed with Asperger's.

And I Asperger's is an autism-based or spectrum disorder and we don't do social cues very well. Among other things, hypersensitivity to things and touch and sight, which I have those issues. And uh Uh It's an advantage for me because one of the side effects is I remember numbers. I remember patterns. And so you need that kind of a thing for apologetics.

And so I can remember lots of verses and I can integrate them.

Well, that's just that. But if you don't have that curve, Curse, which can also be a blessing, then you need to learn the old-fashioned way and the way that you learn.

Some people have different ways of learning, gestalt, identic memory. They have patterns, they do mind maps, it doesn't matter, but you have to learn lots of stuff. And you've got to keep notes on what you learn, and then you've got to go use it all the time.

So. And it's Know and there's very few apologists who make a living at it. I'm one of them. I do, I make it a living off my website. Which is uh which gets uh you know I don't know, 20,000 visitors a day kind of thing.

And so people donate. Which reminds me, if you like what I say and do over the air, please consider donating and supporting us. Just go to uh carm.org forward slash donate and everything it needs right there.

So anyway, it's that kind of a thing. And if you want to be an apologist, um You're going to need to know those things, and then you're going to have to learn how to think critically and write and speak. Uh accurately. and it just takes practice. It just takes practice.

That's all.

So you don't learn this in one week, you don't learn it in one year. I've been doing it for 45 years. and I'm still learning stuff all the time. And what you need to understand is if you want to defend the faith, Defend what you need to defend. Not everything.

Just what you need to, well what do you need to, whatever comes your way. If someone says what's a Trinity and you're not sure how to explain it, then Good. Get busy and study the Trinity. Defend what you need to defend, not everything. and you'll be surprised what you can do.

Let's get to Patrick from North Carolina. Patrick, welcome. You're on the air. Uh hello, uh good evening, Matt.

Okay, uh-huh. Hey, Patrick. Um. Hi. My question today is about uh Colossians 2.

11 and 12. Where it it um I think it actually says that baptism Washes away our sins. Could you read that? Colossians 11 and 12? Yeah, it doesn't say that though.

And in him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ. Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you are also raised up with him through faith in the working of God who raised him from the dead.

Okay. Yeah, and that's talking about not a circumcision done without hands, which means a circumcision of the heart. And um and then he says you're buried with him in baptism. Wouldn't that mean that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what saves us? Yeah.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yeah.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a different topic altogether. And so we have to study. But what does that mean?

Okay, let me finish, dude. Let me get and answer you.

Okay. Okay, Patrick. You called so many times, okay. And uh, you know, that's fine. But hey, we have a break, so hold on.

Hold on, man. We'll get back. All right. Hey folks, we're right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

And I accidentally dropped him, it was not on purpose.

So Patrick called back. That was just my mistake.

Sorry about that. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show.

If you want to give me a call, the number is 87-7207. 2276. Patrick, sorry about that. I just hit draw. Drop is out of hold, my bad.

But I'm glad you're back. Yeah, my question would be is What what does it mean buried with him in baptism? It is what's called a metonymy. It it's a figure of speech. It's a closely related figure or something that relates to something else is a symbol.

So Paul is using this issue of baptism. water baptism to stand for the entire spiritual experience. Of everything that Christ has done and that we participate in His death, resurrection, regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

So what In Acts 19, 1, 1 to 5, When Paul said, Did you receive the Spirit when you believed? Was Paul asking him, Were you baptized with the Holy Spirit when you believed? It doesn't say that, but that's one of the questions we'd have to ask. What does the phrase receive the Holy Spirit mean? And so, when we look at it in Scripture, we see that.

There are There are lots of instances where the Holy Spirit is received, but in different ways. And the phraseology of it varies. Filled with the Holy Spirit, received the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, etc.

So It's not a precise answer because the way the scriptures present these this is not precise, but general. Yeah.

But the question would be When uh did Paul rebaptize them in water, do you believe, in in Acts 19? I certainly uh believe that, yes. You do. Yes. Yeah, but why would he ask them if if they received the spirit when they believed And then he says John's baptism was a baptism of repentance Why would he baptize him again?

For what reason?

Well, that's a good question, actually. A very good question. And I would say because the baptism of John the Baptist didn't get you the Holy Spirit, but the baptism in Christ does. By the issue of either regenerative work upon faith and/or the falling of the Spirit upon you, or the Spirit poured out upon people. By the laying on of hands in Acts 19, or with the, it just happens in Acts 10, 44 to 48, without being baptized or laying on of hands.

Well, in Matthew 3.11, John the Baptist said, I baptize with water, but the one coming after me will baptize with the Holy Spirit. Could that mean only John the Baptist baptized with water? And we're supposed to look forward to Jesus with the baptism of the Holy Spirit like Paul says in Acts 19. No, because in Acts 10, 44 through 48, while Peter was speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon those who were listening to the message. All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also, for they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God.

Then Peter answered, Surely no one can refuse thee water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he? But I believe you have to understand that when Peter said, What stops these men from getting water? He was referring to the ceremonial washing mitzvah, a water baptism, which was a mistake, and that's why Paul was chosen to go to the Gentiles. Could that be true? No.

But it is. It is true because Paul opposes Peter in Galatians 2.14. Because Peter forced Gentiles to follow old Jewish customs. Peter was wrong for that. And this is Peter's, and there's no rebuke of anything Peter did here.

For you to say he was wrong, you have no authority. You don't have rights, no business saying that he was wrong. Paul the Apostle can correct him. But not you. And it says here, you can't refuse to have water.

It says here, you can't refuse water to be baptized.

So it's water baptism they're speaking about right there. Yeah, but this goes back to your theory that Peter could not have water-baptized all the people in Acts 2:38 because the water was too cold. No. So that kind of makes evidence for my belief that 238 was the baptism. Patrick, that's not what I said.

You're misrepresenting me. If 3,000 people are going to be added to the call is being recorded. Interesting. Um If 3,000 people are going to be added by baptism, if it's by immersion, and that means if 12 people were doing it, it would take roughly one baptism every two minutes and twenty seconds for eight hours straight. And that's at 12 at a time.

So uh i it just doesn't make sense that that's what I'm saying is it was probably done by sprinkling or pouring when it went down to the Jordan because it's just not possible mathematically, logistically, to do it unless there's a whole bunch of people. They were baptized with the Holy Spirit because Peter said they were baptized in Jesus' name, which means Jesus baptized them. No, uh Yeah, that's what people I'm telling you, you you say you You are you don't know everything. I think this is something you should study because Yeah. Christianity is mixed up about water baptism.

Yeah, you think that baptism is uh the key. Tears that you shed, right? I think that John the Baptist was the only one who water baptized because of Matthew 3:11. John says, I baptize with water, but the ones coming after me baptize with the Holy Spirit. That means John is the only one who baptizes with water.

That's not true. In Acts 1:4, 5. Hold on, hold on. It's just not true. It's just not true.

And I've shown you it's not true from Acts 10:47. Peter says, No one can refuse water for these to be baptized. You're just wrong. He's referring to ceremonial washing. No, he's not.

It's water. No, he's not. No he's not. Yes he is. No he's not.

Because you were acting like a Jew, you got into it. We're moving along. Folks, Patrick and I have had many conversations here in the radio on varying social media things. And Yeah. He just doesn't understand scripture.

And we're going on and on. And this happens. He then starts to argue about everything you say. And we're just going to move along. Let's get to Dave from North Carolina.

Dave, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt. Good evening. How are you today?

Doing all right, hanging in there. Hanging in there, man. What do you got? My question is: people often regard Satan in terms of hell as the The jailer or the warden, when actually God has the keys to the bottomless pit. And uh hell is God's judgment and Satan is confined to hell like any other center would be.

Yeah, hell is made for Satan and his angels, and so he's not, as so many people mistakenly think, he's in charge of all the demonic forces in heaven. Excuse me, in hell. What a goof. All the demonic forces in hell. And so, um No, he will be cast into the lake of fire and he will experience incredible torment for eternity.

Yeah.

Okay. Right. Right. So so i i it's it would be incorrect to regard him as some type of jailer of uh of of meting out the punishment when that's actually God's wrath, that's God's judgment. rightful judgment.

Was that is that fair to say? Yeah, hell is God's rightful judgment upon those who rejected the offering of Christ.

Okay. And is it also fair to say that? God holds the key to the bottomless pit, so that What the punishment, the ha the hell the lake of fire is at. That's God's wrath, that's not What Satan is imposing. He's wanting to bring people with him.

He wants to bring the lost with him, but he's not imposing it. Is that fair to say? Right. God is the one who sends people to hell, it's not the devil. is not ourselves.

Right. God's one who is the judge, who waves his hand, and there you go. You're flying out there. You go to hell.

So that's what I mean. But when you say God has the key, it I understand what you're saying.

However, in Revelation 20, verse 1, I saw an angel come down from heaven holding the key of the abyss and the great chain in his hand.

Now, is the abyss the abode of the demonic forces? Is it hell representative of that? At least here we have the issue of an angel having that key.

So it's just a little bit of side note to add in the discussion. 'Kay.

Okay, one other question about it. If I could, I won't keep it much longer. I A lot of some pastors, you talked about how people believe in annihilation and it's not really a lake of fire that you're separated from. From God, but if Pastor, and I'll notice the pastor's that teaches, if you teach that. There's nothing more foundational than than the concept of hell and and then punishment.

And if you're taking the the wrongly about punishment, then that's a foundational issue, right? No, it's not an essential doctrine of the Christian faith. Essential doctrine of the Christian faith has a warning associated with it.

So, for example, if we or an angel from heaven should preach to a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

So that's Galatians 1:8. And so there are different things that are associated with essential doctrines. If Christ be not raised, our faith is in vain. And that's 1 Corinthians 15, 14. Jesus says, unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.

John 8:24.

So the essentials of the Christian faith, I call those primary essentials, because they have a statement with a warning.

next to it. And then the secondary essentials of the faith, I'll say, are derived out of the primaries.

So the Trinity. Is you can't have any enter gods before God, otherwise be punished. That's Exodus 20.

So the issue of hell, eternal or not, is not in the issue. of what makes you or breaks you as a Christian.

So you can believe wrongly about it and still be saved. Hold on now, we got a break, okay? Hey folks, be right back after these messages, please. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Thanks for listening. And if you want to give me a call, the number... Is 877-2072276.

Dave, you still there? I am, I am. And I want to thank you for those clear answers. And like you always do, You you always you base your answers on biblical precepts, not tradition or what you would like or think it should be. I and that's you hold firm to the faith.

I I I ju I like it. I just it's aw it's awesome.

Well, praise God. What you just said to me personally is a very high praise. It is because it's the Word of God is the truth, sticking with the Word of God, not by tradition or the thoughts of men, but of God. That's awesome. Thanks.

I really appreciate that.

Okay. All right. And I appreciate you taking my call, and I'll let others get in, and I'll continue to listen. Keep doing what you're doing. It's great.

Okay, thank you. Thank you. All right, God bless.

Okay. All right. Now, let's get to Tommy from South Carolina. Tommy, welcome here on the air. Hey, thank you.

Thank you. I've got uh interest in uh something I've been studying uh There's uh you know when the ancestral lines across. You got the one in Matthew from at least Joseph. Uh from David. uh through Solomon.

You got the one from um Let's see, nathan that Please turn. Mary or, you know, and Luke. That's right.

individuals uh Dravable. And he was one of the ones that came back, uh Uh middle. uh refer back from Bapilon. It so it's rubberable in his opposed parent fathers, Sal FDL or Shout out to yells. They're both listed in both lines.

There's two different people with the same name, that's one thing. Yeah.

But I've heard uh, you know, it seems if that's true, they join together and then they separate again. I've read some interpretation that says Well, someone in the other line. Uh performed uh A kinsman's redeemer type of you know process join the two lines together and then it separate again. And it's a What's really interesting is that Jeremiah, well the In the uh in the Tammy line through uh through Solomon. Uh you come to Jehorikim, And then uh It was around the time Nebuchadnezzar was taking them to Babylon, and then you have your Horiach in.

Jorgin has a couple of other names, Je Jekanaya or Kunaya. Yeah.

Jeremiah had a prophecy about uh Verse twenty four. First thirty, yeah.

Well, yeah, twenty four is after So as as I learn though The son of Jehoiakim came to you to wear a signet ring on my right hand. it'll pluck him off. And then yeah, also on the is uh Yeah, in verse thirty it says that uh righteous man is if childless Right. And uh what's uh There's some archaeological evidence of this. that uh his He apparently had seven sons.

And uh The uh Apparently he's uh when he was carried off to Babylon his this king, his uh sons, seven sons were made unix.

So they were not able to have children that Do you have a question related to all of this? Just curiosity. Yeah, I was just trying to find out if you have any more evid any more information on Functional is Jecaniah was cursed that He was cursed, and his descendants would not sit on the throne. And yet, Jeconiah is in the descendancy genealogy of Joseph. All right.

Right. So how is it then that Joseph could be Because he's a descendant of Jeconiah, how could he then be the one through his son sits on the throne? And the answer is simple. The Luke The Lucan account is Mary. And that is the biological line, and the Joseph line in Matthew is the legal line.

And so the curse is his descendants, which is a biological thing.

So the legal aspect was transferred from Joseph down to Jesus. Because Joseph named him and called him Jesus. That's a symbol of accepting him by adoption in.

So the legal line continues. and the biological line is through uh Mary and everything's fine. Uh As far as the rest of the stuff, you could do a word study on Zerobull and Jekinai to see how they might have related. Uh If you studied it already, maybe you you know, it's must have found some good stuff already, haven't you? One other interesting one of the interesting thing I found, you know, that you can go to Jeremy's property, the rest of the references signet ring.

Maybe it was a signal ring, you could cast him off.

Now, Haggard, the prophet, he. Um I got two twenty. Three. I'll take you as a rebel, my servant, the son of Shechiel. says Lord make you like a signet ring.

uh chosen you and You know, if what if the two are really joined together, if that's true. Three. Yeah, it does form like a ring. You know, it comes it starts from David and splits off and puts joins together, then it separates again. And uh then it ends with Christ being the, you know, the jewel in the ring.

You know, if you Yeah. picture it that way and same way dropable was there. like a foreshadow of Christ in a way. But okay, it was all good stuff. But do you have a question?

Yeah, I just saw that. Try and find more information on. on that. And I just thought of mention it's something interesting that came across. It is, it is.

And trouble is like a uh A like a uh Figure of Christ in the Old Testament because he was given authority by this. you know, this reference to the signet ring. And he was given authority and uh like Christ has authority, you know. Oh, no, no. That's good.

Anyway, I just want the permit, yeah. All right, brother. Appreciate it. Thank you. Alright, good.

Thank you. Bye. All right. All right, so we have nobody waiting right now, but we do have a question that Laura has pinned for me inside of our system. I'm looking at what is your opinion on the Keras movement?

Karis means grace. in Greek, with the foot washing as part of the communion and the dunking. Times for baptism. Here's a pastor that moved from Pennsylvania, one place to another place. And uh And he's a f Uh I'm reading through stuff.

I hang up with the elders. Have his theology. I'd rather a person call in. We could talk about this. I'm not sure.

Foot washing is not a necessary part of the. communion supper when jesus washed the feet of the disciples He was doing this. As a symbol and a signification of his service to them, ultimately in the issue of the cross. They need to be in service of others because they're going to be commissioned to do the same thing, the preaching of that cross.

So, some have interpreted the sections of scripture where he does that, where foot washing is necessary for communion, and it's not. You're free to do that. If you want, and people don't have a problem with that, then that's fine. Nothing in scripture prohibits that. But Normally speaking, I I I don't see it as being a necessity.

And I don't think I don't see it at all.

So I'm trying to understand the rest of the question. Um Let's see. He is a f okay. Those who are hanged those And those are hang-ups with elders here have with his theology. I'm not sure what other aspects of theology Such a pastor who would say that foot washing is part of communion.

Can't do that. He can't say it is part. He can only say there's an interpretation that he holds to and he thinks it's part. He can't say it is. Because The Communion Supper represents Passover and the sacrifice of the Lamb, and the washing of the feet.

is a an extreme form of humility. And Jesus is doing this. And so, um We receive communion as a sign of fellowship with Jesus. And if Jesus is eating that same communion, At the supper with the disciples, Then it cannot be that he's eating his own flesh. That would be interesting.

As the Catholics and East Orthodox would. problematically have to uh adhere to. But it looks like it's like I said before, it's just the issue of service and humility. And it's that humility that led him to the cross.

So that's why they go together in the historical context. Not that they're mandated as being together. but it's contextually together. And he uses Acts 28 as his model for a church. Um I'm not sure what uh I think I know though from X28 home churches and things like this.

Um I'm thinking that's what that is in the next 28. It's been a long time since I've really looked at that. For that, let's see, 28. Uh Trying to get through it here while uh Paul arrives at Rome. Yeah, I'd like to know what particular verses in in uh in There.

But I'm just trying to scan through to see if I can find what it might be related to. I just can't see it out of X 20. I don't know what he's referring to, as a model for the church.

So Well Okay, uh You know, sometimes people will say that the way the true church is to be done. Is by participating in home churches. That's how they did it in the New Testament. Mm-hmm.

But they sometimes confuse Practicality with mandate.

So They're vegan homes. They didn't have church buildings.

So they're meeting in homes. See, that's how it's supposed to be in homes.

Well, it's just the way it was. They would often meet in synagogues, too. on the day off. From the Jews. Worship on Saturday, they'd go on Sunday, or they'd go to different places' houses and do that.

it doesn't mean that it's mandatorily required that you behave that way and do that. That's not what's going on there. But some people make that kind of mistake. They think that that's how it's supposed to be.

Well I don't see where it says supposed to, but it's just the practicality and necessity of that environment. In that time, that's what they had to do.

So they're confusing Necessity with um obligation. Uh Now the early church of course was evangelistic.

Now now that's interesting because I don't see churches today being evangelistic. I do not see them being evangelistic. And yet the early church was highly motivated. to evangelize, to preach the word, go out and spread it out all over the place. And we don't see that today.

Hardly ever. from churches. Which is really interesting. And um If I were a pastor of a church again, I think one of the things we would get going is an evangelism team. And encourage the people in the church to participate.

Not mandate, just hey, if you want to learn how to do this or. you know, go out with them over. And when they go evangelize, please feel free. That's not a requirement, though, because a lot of people are very uncomfortable by that. that.

And there's different reasons and different uh issues.

So uh Also, the early church focused on the essentials of the gospel and they. they dealt with the persecution that that was there with them. And they were in close fellowship with one another and lifted each other up. Those are the principles that are advantageous by small church groups. That's just really good.

The super large groups, you go in there. And you just get lost, you know? There's advantages and disadvantages to everything like that.

Well, anyway, we're out of time. May the Lord bless you. The music's going to start. I just want to let you know that if you enjoy the show and you want to hear it continue. Uh please.

consider supporting us. Just go to carm.org. C-A-R-M dot O-R-G in the right hand, I mean the forward slash donate. forward slash donate on karma. You can help us out.

We'd really appreciate it. We do need it. Boy do we need it. We really do. What you know.

So may the Lord bless you and by His grace, be back on here tomorrow. Talk to them. Another program powered by the Truth Network.