Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carn.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, as usual, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call, and we can blab.

All right, so also you can email me. That's easy to do. Just send an email to info at carm.org, info at C-A-R-M.org. put in a study line, radio comment, or radio question. I usually get to them on Fridays like today.

And um Just giving you guys a heads up.

So, I'm going to say this, but uh, We have an email program and been trying to work it, and I'm not going to say which company it is and which this. Uh but it's been pretty bad for us. And uh we're going to move to a new system. But I have to extract information, I have to do all kinds of zippity-doo-dah stuff, and then we're going to go to a different system. And um So I haven't I've sent out Newsletters And then I found out they weren't being sent out.

And then when I went to send one out yesterday or the day before, it wouldn't go.

So I don't know if anybody's gotten any for two or three, four weeks. That's the situation.

Now, the reason I've been bringing it up is because Um What are the things we're going to do? Is we're going to have on the 25th of this month. we're gonna have a uh a little bit of a party.

Now twenty fifth will be in uh a week two weeks from tomorrow. That's when we're going to release the new Carm site. And we've been working on it, or I should say our tech guys and stuff have been working on it a lot. And uh We're going to probably have him on. I think we're going to do that, have him on Friday.

the 24th and talk about the new site. And talk about the new stuff that this guy's a programmer. He's done a lot of great stuff. We'll probably have him on the airline so we can get him on. And maybe the guy who designs the site appearance as well, get him on as well.

They've been working with us now for a while. And uh the new site is blazing fast. And it's got security features in it that are just fantastic. It's got AI integration in a good way. It's got all kinds of stuff.

We're working on other things as well. For the new shop, the new donation page, the new this, the new that. And so the reason I mention this right now is because if you are interested in participating on the twenty fifth, which will be a Saturday. probably I haven't decided what day, what time yet. It'll probably be around be around 8 o'clock Eastern time.

We're going to provide a URL on the new website where you can come in to EVMux. And it's a program that you just all you need is uh just a microphone. on your computer and you can Can come on in and say, hey, you know, I've been using Carm for this long, or whatever it is. And we're going to have people just call in and say what they thought of Carm, just things like that, because it's going to be 30 years old. thirty years old.

On um the 25th. And You know, it's been around for a long time, and I've written around 5,000 articles. And the total number of visitors we've had in the site is 168.8 million visitors.

Now there's a lot of sites that have a lot more. But you won't find a a Christian website where it's been mostly one person doing the writing of the articles for that long. And the reason it's been mainly me doing this is because I know my theology and I know what is theologically precise and how to write for the Internet and things like that. And You know, since I am getting older, you know, in December I'll be 69. 69 years old, man.

And then a year after that, it'll be 70. 70 years old. I can't believe it.

So we are going to start having people who want to write for us. to contact me.

Now I was going to put all this in the newsletter But I can't get the newsletter out.

So, we're going to have to figure out a new system. But I have to export from the present system. The uh The emails, but it's over 60,000, but it is, but those are many years old, and only about 8,000 are current. And I can't figure out how to get this.

So it's been a, you can just see I'm frustrated. That's just one thing I'm going to do. And then when we get to 8,000, we'll switch it into something, a new program like MailChimp or something like that, and we'll use it. or some program. then we'll be able to send the information out.

So if you're interested in participating in our Saturday this month, October twenty fifth, thirtieth anniversary, just stay tuned with the new website, which will be released on the twenty fifth. Then, or maybe the 24th, because it's day, I don't know, the 25th is when we're scheduled. Then, um you'll see an article link near the home page on the home page, which is a new design. And you'll be able to get to the URL information for coming in into EVMux and have you know just a talk.

Now that's one thing. The other thing is if you are interested in writing for Carm, You can go to the CARM website, C-A-R-M.org, and on the homepage you'll find the article called Writers. Just writers, and click on that, and it'll give you what you need, it'll give you the information you need. And what we're looking for. is anyone, male, female.

Doesn't matter how old you are. And you don't have to be reformed, that's okay. But you do have to agree. To the statement of faith. That's critical.

The statement of faith is thorough, but it's also encompassing so that those people who are not like me are millennial, they can write, you know, that's fine. If you're premillennial, that's fine. And if you're non-reformed, that's okay too. That's because we're not interested in all those particulars. We're interested in people who know the theology, the Trinity, hypostatic union, communication, other properties, justification, imputation, propitiation, etc., and know what this stuff is, which means I'll and.

end up interviewing you and asking those kind of questions. And we'll then teach you how to write on the Carm style, which is pretty easy to do. And then you can write on what you want to write about. And you'll have access to put articles up. Etc., etc.

Work with Laura, and she likes to govern a lot of things on the site. She really helps out a lot. And so, this is what we're looking for. Like I said, the information on how to write it is on writers, the article writers.

So we have Charlie Spine, who I know is listening, and he can write. People who've worked on staff over the years, answering emails, you don't even have to have been associated with CARM. You could, and you don't have to have a degree either. It's helpful if you have degrees, but that doesn't mean that's what qualifies you.

So, we are looking for competent, intelligent writers who can communicate and who can address a multitude of issues, and that's what we need.

So, more of that will be coming up. And if you have questions about that, you have uh You want to know about that, then just go to Go to the Carm homepage and look up the word righteous, or it should be on the homepage still. I think it is the article that I produced and released a few days ago. Which I had planned to put in the newsletter so that people could check it out.

So now I'm having to do it this way, and I hope you don't mind that. All right, now. If you want, you can give me a call. The number is 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you.

Give me a call. You can also send me an email, and that is easy to do. Just info at carm.org. Info at CARM. And we can get to uh The questions that you put in there, just put the subject line: radio comment, radio question, something like that, and we can get to them.

We have nobody waiting right now, so what I'm going to do is get to Some of those questions right now. I'm just going to do that. I'm just going to jump in. Um Let's see. Blasphemy oh, that reminds me, because this article right here, blasphemy the Holy Spirit.

And what it's about, and I haven't read the whole thing. Question. When I watch YouTube, I watch a lot of YouTube videos of shorts. I like them. I like the unexpected, what's next kind of thing.

Every now and then I pop up and I look at myself, oh, that's bad. And but not very often. And so I watched a video, I think it was this morning. And this guy who's well known, he's older. and he gets out and he answers questions.

and for the most part he does really well. Except for Mm man. I couldn't believe what I heard him say. He said, Blast with the Holy Spirit is when you continually resist the Holy Spirit, and that that's what it is. I go, that's not what it is.

And it's found in Matthew 12, 22 through 32. And it is saying that Jesus did his miracles by the power of the evil one. That's what that's where the Holy Spirit is. I mean, I will debate it publicly because I just read the context. It's not that hard.

And I'm blown away how many times people just get it wrong and they don't seem to really read the context, you know, context.

So, anyway, there's that. Anyway, this guy says: basically, as long as you are still alive. Um Read Nest LSC. As long as you're still alive, there's an opportunity available. to you to come back to Christ and repent and be forgiven of your sins.

That's right, but I solemnly warn you not to put That decision of Okay. Oh, oh, I get it. Um Oh, this is Tim. Oh, good. Tim's one of the email writers.

Very good. Very good. You may not have a later time. Hey, Tim's doing a good job. If you continue walking away from the Lord, God may let you go, and you may lose all interest today if you hear his voice.

Reading the Bible, when the church will not save you, only the true faith in the Lord Jesus Christ will save you. Tim's good. All this good stuff. But they can be extremely helpful gaining spiritual wisdom. My friend, please don't wait to seek God, seek Him now.

Matt may also get a chance to address your question on the radio if you'd like some other sermons to listen to, etcetera. And here's the well done. I don't know if Tim's listening, but he that's a He's a good writer. He's good. We need to have him write articles.

He's very concise, well punctuated. Nice stuff.

Alright, so here's the question. I've been in a backslidden state for years since I accepted Christ. I've asked Jesus into my heart again. By the way, folks, asking him into your heart is not biblical. You don't ask Jesus into your heart.

I wish people would stop saying that. I wish they'd stop teaching it. Ask Jesus into your heart. That's not what you do. You don't it's not in the Bible.

Okay, we can talk about this, but we'll get to it in a sec. It says, I've asked Jesus into my heart again, but still not reading the Bible and going to church. I was told that in the Bible, faith without works is dead, and that scripture says God will cut you off. Basically, losing your salvation. Is that true?

Also Can I get it back if it is lost? No, you don't lose your salvation if you're really saved.

Okay? And I know what people want to say. They would disagree, say that I'm wrong.

Well, we can argue about it. Call me up and you can tell me what you have to do. Good things you got to do to keep yourself right with the infinitely holy God. But um No, about this issue of asking Jesus in your heart, ladies and gentlemen. Stop.

Stop saying that. It is not in the Bible. You don't ask them into your heart. You've got to understand, you are a sinner. You've lied, you've cheated, you've stolen, you've done all kinds of things, just like me.

And The consequence of that is damnation because it's an offense against God's holy character and His holy law. And if he doesn't punish the one who breaks his law, then God is approving of evil. And he can't do that. Because he's holy.

So he provided a way for us to be forgiven of our sins. Are those things that we've done that are wrong? The laws we've broken. lying, cheating, stealing, etcetera. And the way that we can escape from that righteous judgment of the Holy God.

is to trust in what God Himself provided on the cross. Jesus Christ is God in flesh, and He died on that cross. He bore our sin and His body on the cross, died on that cross, and three days later. Three days later, he rose from the dead. That resurrection is the proof.

is the proof of what Jesus said. is true.

Now In light of that, You don't ask Jesus in your heart. In light of that, you go to Christ and you say, Lord Jesus. I am a sinner. And I know I deserve damnation. I know I do.

But would you please forgive me? Please forgive me. I trust what you've done. Forgive me. Be the Lord of my life.

And teach me how to follow you. I trust in you and you alone for the forgiveness of my sins. That's what you gotta do. Not ask them into your heart.

Okay? Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. Give me a call. Be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, like the two that are Waiting now, all we have to do is dilate 772072276. Let's get to Rudolph. From North Carolina.

Rudolph, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, brother, how you doing, man? Haven't talked to you, Mark. How is your wife doing?

Um Is she unless God does a miracle, uh she's still struggling with her her multiple uh problems. But she's stabilized. She's stabilized. But okay, that's good. She I knew she was sick one time when you took off.

I just wonder if we I had some other friends as a high cheap zoom. I couldn't give them a. Yeah. I know she better, but She's dealing with dealing with herself. But it's good to talk to you and heard I'm glad you're doing right.

Because they need your boss progress. I'm not sure if I can do it.

Okay, I wanna ask you a question about Okay, I just wanted your question. No one can't pass on my tracks. But Christ.

Okay. Uh past his cheek tracks. My question I'd normally ask people 'Cause I was listening to what you were saying about don't ask people. Um the wrong thing about adding crash to your heart. That's not biblical.

You asked him to forgive you of your sins. Yeah, and receive the atoning sacrifice. Right.

Okay. I don't want to ask What out as them has been shifted Jesus Christ their Lord and Saviour. This is it, right? Yeah, you receive Christ, John 1:12. As many as received him to them give the right to be called the children of God, John 1:12.

So we receive Christ. And what that means is you're receiving and trusting in the sacrifice that he did on the cross. And then baptism is the public declaration of the identification with what Christ did. Because your baptism then represents. Your dying with him.

And you're saying that death. is what I'm looking to, and that resurrection is what I'm trusting in. And so that baptism represents that, okay?

Okay, so asking someone have they accepted. Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior is is okay. Yeah, of course it is.

Okay, already. Yeah. Okay, but Take care, brother, and God bless you. I love you, man. Yeah.

Well, God bless, brother. All right, man. Appreciate it. All right, man. Take care.

Bye-bye.

Okay, bye. All right, now let's get to Sanji from Ohio. Yeah, Sanji, welcome. You're on the air. Oh, hi.

How you doing, Matt? Oh, I'm doing all right. Hands up.

So, what do you got? Oh, that's good. That's good. It's a blessing to be on your show. I love your show.

Me and my grandson, we listen to your show. Mo most of the time, you know, we get we get a chance, like during the week, if we're riding in a car But anyway, we we we just have a question. I have a question. Um you know, with the the shooting, you know, with Charlie Kirk, um I know we'd be watching videos and we watched this one video. I can't think of the man's name.

But anyway, He was talking about how this these witches had casted a spell on um Charlie Kirk and and me and my son w I mean my grandson was like, Well, how is it that you know, a spell could be cast on him if he's a born-again Christian.

So, I mean, is that true or not, that a spell really can be cast on him?

Well, yes and no. Because it depends how you define terms.

So can An occultist which wic uh person, go through a ceremony. where they invoke a demonic force that they think is good though. And upon a Christian, and they cast a spell. Can they go through the process? Yeah, they can do that.

So, does it say, though, that it will have an effect on the Christian?

Well, that's more debatable. Because um Such things are forbidden in scripture because they do contact and are working with demonic forces.

So if there are people who are working in demonic forces who are casting spells, it's possible that demonic forces could then focus on the Christian all the more. and make things rough. I'll just leave that generically. We do know that demonic forces are sent. to um attack uh God's followers.

And we see that in scripture. Paul, you know, mentioned it, Job.

So, can someone send them? I'm not an expert in this field, but I would say that they can go through the process where they invoke and try and have them. uh attack you.

So from what I understand, that is certainly possible. And we do wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities.

So, if we're going to have like Mormons that they're in contact, they don't realize it, but they think they believe in the true God, you know, they're believing in a false God. And so, when they pray, what they're actually doing is praying to demonic forces, not knowing this. And so, they will invoke these things to help somebody else, and they can have spiritual oppression because of it. And this can manifest in different ways. It can manifest in depression, it can manifest in health issues, it can manifest in um you know just safety issues around the house or just negative feelings, it could be a wide variety of things, and it it becomes subjective and difficult to nail down.

At that point.

Okay. No, okay. Oh, okay.

Well, in in your opinion, though, I mean, it's your opinion, do you do you feel like that that that is what like happened to him, that that the curse wa um was um you know, was put on him, you know, by his witches.

Well it's possible that they could have put a curse on him. But The only way that uh Charlie Kirk's death was allowed or occurred is because God permitted it. And so We have to understand that even though it doesn't make sense a lot of times to us, we know that God works all things after the counsel of His will, Ephesians 1:11. And so this was allowed by God, and it was allowed for a reason. What we do is we trust, and we've seen how much good has come out of it.

And not the but so it's hard to say. Yes, they can, yes, this did happen or that didn't. It's hard to say. It's just in the realm of logical possibility. 'Kay.

Oh okay. All right. All right, well, thank you for your answers and your confirmation on some things.

So we thank you.

Okay. Well, thank you. All right. God bless you. God bless.

All right, another caller coming in. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207. 2276.

So now I'm getting back to the emails. We've got a lot of emails. That have been submitted. One person to summarize his email: he's the How do you witness to the Mormons?

Well, that's a broad question, and there's lots of different approaches. to witnessing to them. But I would say, you know, go to my website, carm.org forward slash Mormonism, and see if you can find some stuff there. But also mrm.org, Mormonismresearchministry.org out of Sandy, Utah. And they do great work there too.

Now they have classes there too. where you can go in and do a lot of learning. But because they have a center. It's really great. Anyway, so um One of the things we're going to focus on with Mormons is who's the true God.

because their God is an exalted man from another world. And he's a goddess wife. That's not the God of the Bible.

So you have to study what the God of the Bible teaches. You have to study who He reveals Himself to be. There's only one God in all existence, all place, all time. And Mormons are, you know, they don't, Mormonism doesn't teach that. But I've noticed this lately: that Mormons are now starting to say more and more there's only one God and He's the eternal being.

They're trying to sound Christian. But they're official documents, then they don't say that. And so I'm not sure what's going on. I talked to Bill McKeever about that. And um Let's just say that Mormonism has always been somewhat of a moving target.

It changes through the set through the decades. even though it retains its ultimate false doctrines. God, Jesus, and salvation. We'll be right back after. These messages, please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright everyone, welcome back to the show. Bottom of the hour, if you want to give me a call. 877207-2276.

All right, Buskman from Dayton. You're on, buddy. Good evening, Matt Slick. This is Pastor Appreciation Month. Yeah.

Um So Happy Pastor Appreciation Month, Matt. You're one of my if I can, if you if you will allow me, dear brother, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. I want to commend you for your the work you do and the pastoring that you do over The Truth Network here in Dayton, Ohio. We get you on 106.5 FM. Stu Epperson's network on True.

Network, and I just want to say. Oh, if I will if I can, man. Pastor Matt, thank you for your service. And I I uh I hold you up this weekend. I guess Sunday is the day that Christians from all around the country stores to celebrate their dear pastor and Matt Slick.

Uh you you will be a being celebrated, brother.

Well, I appreciate it. You're stretching the word pastor there a little bit, but I understand and I appreciate that. And, you know, thanks. Praise God. Appreciate it.

You're welcome.

Now, um I got a really, really tough question. All right. Really tough question, Matt.

Okay. Uh has egregious Sin brought to his awareness by a victim within the congregation. At the hands of the pastor or the elder of the overseer. What does that cost? Congregant.

Do. What happened?

Okay, so let me get this straight.

So you're saying that there's Sure.

So let me get this straight. Understand that.

So there's a an elder slash or pastor, but an elder, whatever. A pastor is an elder. And there's an egregious sin. I see what the note says, and it says a sexual sin. And the victim is bringing this out.

What should be done at this point? Yes, the victim brought it to one of the congregants.

Okay. brought it to a Uh actually a few And only one seems like they're going to to go forth and He's been reading Matthew 18, Galatians 16. Six.

Okay. Host Timothy. I'll bring in the charges. He's really seeking God in Scripture first, Matt. And since I know that you're a man of the scriptures, I think this man would be greatly appreciative if he heard it through a human voice, as you're someone who's Schooled in the Word of God and doesn't take it flippantly.

what this what this man in his congregation should do.

So we have an accusation from a female against a male, and the male's an elder. All right, so. What we have now is an issue that's not yet Verify or confessed. It's potential that she is making it up. I'm not saying she is, I'm not taking his side automatically, I'm just saying.

It's pote it's possible that this is the case. All right. And there's proof. There's verifiable proof.

Okay, if it could be verified that and and this is the case, then uh you know she needs counseling for her sin and her involvement. But that's that's beside the point right now.

So Then she needs to go to if she's married that's another issue but she needs to go to He is married, Matt. He is married.

Okay, and is she married too?

Okay. So there's all now there's all kinds of parties. There's all kinds of parties involved, and this is a big thing. We can talk about different aspects, but let's talk about the one thing: what should be done about that elder? Then if there is proof and it's it's fact.

This can be demonstrated. She needs to go to people she can trust in the church. and this needs to be brought out. Her husband needs to know, he needs to be involved, and counseling on that's a whole other issue. And then it needs to be brought in private to that individual, the elder.

First. Once this is done, he needs, if it's true, this is the case, then he needs to. Um publicly resign, A ASAP. And that's just done. And then the rest of the elders, however they are, needs to be informed in this.

And then the elders need to work on church discipline. And the issue of counseling, reconciliation, and issues. He needs to be immediately removed from his position. I don't care if he's a pastor. He's he's gone.

That's it. Done. He's forfeited that position, and he's forfeited that obligation and that right, and he probably should never be a pastor again.

So, this is a serious thing.

So, the Bible says, don't bring an accusation against an elder by two witnesses.

Now, what does that mean?

Well, the facts, and if she has it, and others can verify that, then there's witnesses in that context and evidence is what's needed.

So this is what needs to happen. And it should not be buried and it should not be ignored. And then later you go to the congregation, and the congregation needs to be informed. What happened?

Okay. I got a couple questions based on your testimony. All right. Your husband Denies The uh allegations that the wife has told him. about the egregious sin.

of this elder And as for other elders, Matt, Um what I know of this congregation A leader. Yeah. The only elder, and he's the one. That's committed the The affairs, yes. This is fine, yes.

Okay, well then if there's n not a body of elders and it's only the pastor and it can be proven that he has done this. Then you go to him specifically. One or two more males need to go, and her if she needs to go there.

Now, this is very serious because. It better be proven that she's right, that this is a fact. If it can be proven, we don't need to go through the evidence right now, but if it's proven. Then That's one thing. If it can't be proven, then you've got a real problem.

Because then you're bringing an accusation without evidence, without fact. Just a single. Inferno. Yeah. And so then that's a serious thing.

And so but let's just say that it is the case that this has occurred and that the evidence is sufficient that anybody who would see it would be convinced. If that's the case, then uh A trustable Men and women. It doesn't matter how many per. But definitely men that need to go and confront the pastor, and then you say, You need to step down.

Now If it's but the f if the evidence is that strong. You know, film, recordings, receipts for hotels, whatever it is. Say, this is it. And if he refuses, then that coming Sunday. then there needs to be a confrontation publicly in the church service.

Where he is no longer qualified and allowed to speak the word of God, and good men need to stand up and stop him from teaching that word. Yep. Incredible.

Okay. Who are the. Who are the ones that brings the information to the elder you mentioned uh men A few and even women who brings that information, the victim, or someone who Oh, the victim.

Okay. So she would need to be involved, And unless there's extenuating circumstances we're not aware of here in the radio, this is generic, okay, so she would need to be involved. And you know, I would think that she ne would need to have a female companion there with her so that she's not You know, poor woman. I mean, I'm not saying she's innocent, all this, but it could be very intimidating, very difficult in a situation with a bunch of guys standing around, and there she is, and she's making accusations.

So She needs to be guarded, and the men need to guard her. Even though she's committed great sin. And the pastor has two. But both need to be guarded. This is why the procedure is that you have to go to the elder with witnesses, and there needs to be a recording done.

And you need to Make sure everything's I mean recorder, you have a recorder. Absolutely. Audio recorder. If needed, and a video if possible. Yeah, and not just one, but several.

All people involved, you have your recorder on, you put it on the table, whatever it is, so everybody knows. And if it's possible to get a camera, you do that. I mean, seriously, this is just because of litigious issues. You need to have yourself backed up quickly. That makes total sense, Max.

That does. That's very wise.

Okay, keep going, sir. I'm writing this down.

Okay, and so Her husband needs to know about this. And so you have to talk to her husband. And if he's denying this and the proof is there, then that's another issue that's got to be addressed. But if he says he doesn't want her to go do this, Then we have a bit of a problem because if he's saying, no, it's not there, it's not true, then you have to settle it with him first. Yes, it is true.

And if he still refuses, and the evidence is 100%, he's just denial, then you still have to proceed with the issue of the pastor being ousted. If he is guilty of it, wow. Yeah, this is a serious stuff. And what you have to do is, you've got to realize that you need to keep records. Who you talked to, including me, on the radio, what was said.

You need to have names, dates, places, and keep a record. And witnesses around you said, yes, this is what happened. Because it might come to a lawsuit. No, I I'm We're gonna break, so hold on. We're gonna hold through this a little bit more but Okay, there's a lot of possibilities we're going to talk about today.

Folks, we'll be right back. Oh. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. All right, this is this is tough stuff. Buskman are you still there? I am here, man.

And I appreciate your your counsel, brother.

Alright, well, yeah, this is a worthwhile topic. I know a lot of people are listening and concerned about it.

Alright, so we chatted in the text, and I'm not going to say what we chatted about over the air. And if what you said is absolutely correct. Then um then he needs to be removed.

Now. The the process needs to be uh Promoted, and you need to get the evidence together, the proof together. With other Christians you can trust in the church. They need to go because he's only one elder, they need to go confront him. with uh with her uh under the right conditions.

And it should be recorded. And you need to understand that these kind of things sometimes lead to lawsuits because you better make sure that what you're saying is correct. And even though Christians aren't supposed to cr sue each other and do that kind of a thing, sometimes they do anyway. And we're talking about. That was a question that was brought up.

I mean, even I, an onlooker, thought of that. Uh-huh. I remember what Paul said to the Corinthians: hey, why do we bring matters to the civil courts? Why can't we handle them in-house? Is this something that we would not handle in-house then, Matt?

No, no, you handle this in-house. This is what you're doing first. But I was going to say that one of the additional things you could do, since it's only one elder and it's a pastor, is for. contact another church that is reputable. And You don't spread gossip, but you ask for advice and.

the possible participation of another elder local. Because you're going to need someone to replace him. Immediately. Who's going to preach and teach? And so They need to be involved on this is several levels of stuff.

Her relationship with her husband is affected. Uh the pastor's uh relationship with his wife Is affected and with the congregation. and his great sin against God.

Okay, and the congregation is going to be injured, so the congregation is going to need help. when they find out what happened. And I mean, this kind of thing, I wish I was local. I would just say, here, let me help as much as I can. Hey, come on out to Dayton.

Well You never know. If you need me out there to help guide through this or work through this, I'm perfectly willing to come out there. I may take you up on that, Matt. Seriously, I'll get with you. Um uh and you know, have a I can send you my email or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah, but I would recommend that people in the church do this. We can always have conferences online and we can talk or phone calls or whatever. But you need to find some guys in the church that you can trust, and she needs to be involved when they confront the pastor. And it's best to have one or two women there as well who are not going to be gossipy because this is to be kept under wraps.

They are not to produce any, say this to anybody. But here's the thing: let's say the woman who is. The accuser and you have another woman who's going to be there with her. That other woman has to know.

Well, that means then that that other woman's husband, if she's married, has to know. Because you can't have Yeah, this this uh person does have that Uh going her right now, yes.

Okay. If the other person is married, that husband needs to know, and he needs to be politely said, this is discretionary. We're not to spread this around. You can't do that otherwise because the proper procedures have not yet been begun. You can't draw pins, you can't do anything.

And he has to agree to that before his wife, this woman's. Uh backup, so to speak. Company can participate because everybody has to be above board, everybody has to know. as much as needs to be known in order to accomplish what needs to be done.

So It's sin is like a bomb. It affects everyone around you. And the affection are l long lasting. The congregation needs to uh be provided opportunities to talk to people. to be counseled about stuff.

Do you have someone do Q and A Because what if their hope was in that pastor, and now the pastor's fallen, and then their faith in Christianity is weakened? This details. Yeah, so this this is serious stuff, okay? And they need to understand that their eyes need to be on Christ, not a man. Any man in that pulpit is going to fail.

To some degree. I mean, we're not going to like that, but you know, no one's perfect. That's the idea.

So, this is a convoluted issue that's brought about by sin. And if what you said in the text is correct, oh my goodness. He needs to be out now. And if it's fact, if it's verified, if this is it, if you were to go to him, or whoever does, and he confessed, yes, it's true, then immediately. You say, okay, you're out.

You're not a pastor. You're not a pastor anymore. Right there that minute. He's done. And if he dares to come up and say he's going to preach the word of God, then good men need to physically stop.

I don't mean get them in a headlock and you fight 'em. But I mean, no, when he gets up, you turn the mic off. And then at that point, if he were to be that rebellious and still want to preach God's word and love and forgiveness after the great sin that he's committed, allegedly. then good men need to stand up and say this is not to be permitted in the church. He's disqualified.

Okay. Wow, okay. Thanks, Mair. I've taken down quite a bit of notes. And um I'll definitely come back and revisit this on.

Let's see, you're streaming on Rumble.

So I'll go back and watch this episode again on Rumble.

Okay. Yeah, you know, and also contact me. I'll give you my cell number and we can talk about this. This is a serious issue. If you wouldn't mind, sir, yeah, if you wouldn't mind getting it to me, all fair.

Yeah, yeah, just uh Just email me, info at carm.org. Hey, this is Buskman, blah, blah, blah. And I'll be directly. But come on after the show's ended and then come in and then um I need to verify because someone could hear this and say, hey, I'm Buskman, get your phone number, and I wouldn't know.

So, we need to figure that out. You need to tell me what address email, and then I'll know it's from you.

So, this is a serious thing, and you need to keep lots of records. Because potentially this could become legal, and all of your conversations and all of your stuff that you're doing needs to be. recorded uh reported recorded Because, see, let me, I know you don't have any else left. Let me give you an example of something. Years ago, here locally.

A a married couple I found out that he had been repeatedly committing adultery. And when we found out Uh it was a I was involved with the confrontation. and she was present. And um He confessed. And, you know, I didn't jump on him, didn't yell at him.

He says, okay, all right.

Well, you know, that this means this and that. She was willing to work. in healing the marriage. Which I thought, okay, that that's fine. He continued in his adulterous ways.

What I had told her in the meantime, Was to write down and keep a list of various things that she had done in her attempt of reconciliation, and God is including her conversations with me. and her friends and any other clergy that she may have come in contact with to talk about. And I said, just you keep this as a record, and there's a reason. I said to her. There's a reason.

I said because You're not the offending party, but the offended party. If he's unrepentant, you have the right. to divorce him. You don't have the obligation, but if you were to divorce him, I would support you. Because he's unrepentant in it, and that breaks the covenant that he's made.

You know, as Jesus says, you know, Matthew 19:9, you know, except for spiritual infidelity, you know, you can do it, okay?

So And I said, you do this because you want to have a record of the procedures that you've gone through. And I said to her, This may sound weird. Way too early to ever bring this up. But your future If you're ever going to come to the place of possible marrying someone else, this needs to be part of your history that he. would need to know in any church relationship.

This would need to be known. I said, I'm telling you this to protect you. to protect you. Not just, well, I did a bunch of stuff, but you have records: the dates, the times, and who I talked to, and what about. And there's a record of this stuff.

Then it's helpful. Turns out they did get a divorce. And belie I still remember this. While I was telling her this, I I just had this impression. that she's going to be divorced, and in two years she'll be married.

to somebody else. I never told her that. But I just had this and I remember where I was. It was in her garage 'cause I'd gone over there and had door open 'cause I was there, I'm not, you know, and I'm just talking publicly. It was a public thing, you know, so that we weren't in her house together.

And I I knew then, or I suspected then, she'd be married within two years. I didn't say that, it's not appropriate, you know. I just feel him. But nevertheless, and she was married within two years. And there was a guy that uh he approached me.

And he goes, Matt, what about this divorce she was in? And I said, I was heavily involved with everything. She's kept lots of records, and I had some records too. and I said she did everything right. I'm not saying perfect.

But man she did everything right. And she's a godly woman, willing to work on it, even though he was unrepentant. She still wanted to work on it. I said, she's a good woman. And I told him: if it's the case that you two end up getting married and you asked me to do the wedding, I would be glad to.

I would approve it. And he said, Thanks. That's what I needed to know. And they ended up getting married.

So You see This is you gotta think not only now But the ramifications of this. in the future as well. Keep lots of records. And hopefully you'll never need him.

Okay. Matt, I can't thank you for your pastoral care. God bless you this month of. celebrating Pastors. God bless you, man.

Hey. God bless. Praise God. All right. I'll come to the Aqua Show.

Okay, sounds good. All right. You know, I've actually been involved with several things like this over the years in different uh situations. And um They are varied, and whenever people are involved, it gets messy. And when there's sin involved, it gets messier.

And then people take sides, and then people ignore facts, and then people will believe things that are not facts, et cetera. And it becomes very difficult. And the enemy uses this kind of opportunity to do great damage. And divisions and factions and anger can be the result. This is why.

I say to people, you go slowly. You get lots of counsel. You keep records, you be prayerful, you go to what the word says. Matthew 18, you already mentioned Matthew 18, the procedures, you go to the person. If they don't repent, then you bring someone.

If they don't repent, you go to the church, things like that. And so there's a procedure. And uh Documentation is essential. Documentation is essential. And it will protect you, and it's very helpful.

And I'd recommend that and audio recordings if possible. And things like that. And in some states, in order to report somebody, you have to inform them. In other states, you don't.

So you got to find out those kind of laws. There's it see this it becomes such a mire. of difficulty to wade through. you tackle One, three. thing at a time.

Solve that, and that information tells you what you can do and can't do in different directions. You keep records of the whole thing.

Alright, there you go. Wow. And uh You don't need it in Ohio, you just checked? Good.

Okay, you don't need two-person consent. It's like here in Idaho, one person doing it is good.

Alright, there we go. There's the music. May the Lord bless you by His grace. Lord willing. We're back on the air on Monday.

And it will talk. to you all then.

So have a good evening and a great weekend everybody. God bless. Bye. Another program powered by the Truth Network.