Matt Slick Live

It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! For answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live. Today's date is August 20th, 2025. It's a nice Wednesday.

I'm back in the studio after being in North Carolina. North Carolina was there at a conference. I'll talk about that in a little bit, but if you want to give me a call in the meantime, it's easy. All you have to do is dial 877- 207- 2276. You can also give me an email.

Send me an email to info at carm.org, info at carm.org. C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. Put the subject line, radio comment or radio question. And we can get to it in a bit when we do. All right.

We have nobody waiting right now. And so I flew home yesterday, was at a conference, and it was really good. We didn't have enough people as far as I'm concerned. We'll talk about that a little bit. But the people that were out there, it was great.

I really enjoyed meeting so many nice, to be honest, South Carolinas. I really noticed how pretty polite everybody was out there, how they were kind and respectful. It really was great. And I don't know the name of the person, but one of the things that happened, my wife has medical stuff. And she lost, let's just say, lost some important meds in the trip out there.

And those things happened. And we had some friends, Matt and Joanne, thank you very much for helping us out so much. We really do appreciate that. They just drove her around and helped her and got meds while I was able to do the conference. And speak, very useful, very helpful.

And just praise God for them. And also for just the locals who helped my wife out and all of that. It was really good.

So I spoke at a conference on the difference between Islam and Christianity. And there's a lot of differences. And you may know, I have figured out by now, that when I teach, I like to lead people with things to help them witness better. And I did that. I focused on that.

I thought it was fine. And, you know, you guys can give me some feedback. And I get to meet Jamal.

Now, Jamal, I talk to every now and then on the phone. He'll call here. And, man, it was great. It was great seeing Jamal. I really liked him.

We'd be friends. We were neighbors, we were friends doing stuff. And so we hung out and he bought me some bags of M&Ms. Big bag of peanut and plain M&Ms. Got a kick out of that.

And I've been munching on them. Munching on them. They're bad for me, but, man, I love them. And so that was good. And we had a good time.

Made a good time. I got to meet some people. And there were those who had listened to me on the radio and then some who hadn't, never heard of me. which is fine. You know, so it was ministrytomuslims.com, ministrytomuslims.com, plural there.

And there were some really good speakers. And then I was there also.

So they were really good speakers. And Anthony Rogers was there, and Laura was there, and George was there, and Olin, and we had others. We really had a good time. And, you know, one of them, I'm going to get his notes. One of them did this thing on Islam on sin.

Really, it was good. He sat in the back of his workshop and listened and learned a lot. And I wanted his notes.

So, you know, maybe I'll bug him. Say, hey, give me some notes. You know, I don't know. And we set this up, too. while I was out there, set up a debate that I'll be having with Amir...

Amir... I've got to forget his name. Ahmed? Nadir Ahmed. That's right.

And that'll be in February next year in Dallas. Apparently, what they're working on is three debates, three nights in a row. I'll be doing one against Islam. Anthony Rogers will be doing a debate against Trent Horn, I think it is, who's a Roman Catholic. And then Eli Ayala, he was at the conference.

I'll tell you what happened with him. But Eli's going to be debating Dan Barker, who I've debated already, on something to do with atheism and God and things like that.

So Eli, I don't know if he's listening or not, but Eli, he's a good apologist, up-and-coming apologist. He's never been in a formal debate, but he's going to have his first one coming up pretty soon. He's going to do very well.

So I said, Eli, come on down, because it was like a three-hour drive for him. Come on down to the conference. I want to introduce you to George.

So I did introduce him to George. And long story short, George says, hey, we're going to do a panel discussion. Eli, why don't you come on up and join us? And so Eli got drafted right away. and he was up there on the stage with us doing apologetics and things like that because he knows his stuff.

He's a good guy.

So that was it. It was a lot of fun. It was. I had a good time. I had a good time, and I introduced some interesting concepts to people.

I may go over a little bit together right now. But, hey, look, I want you to give me a call, okay? Give me a call, 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call.

and you send me an email to info at carm.org. Info at carm.org. And I don't think I was planning on being back on the radio today so soon, but I got back a day early because the plans changed. I just moved my flight up. You know, North Carolina is different than Idaho.

A lot of trees manage a lot of trees. And these towns that they call it a town, you drive through a forest, there's a building and there's another building. And there's a town. And so these they're buried into the forest and the trees, a lot of trees out there. And people know how to drive a little better out there than here.

Let me just say, I got a little bit of the speed demon out of my system, getting there going and people moving and grooving. It was great.

So so there you go. All right, so one of the things we talked about at the conference that I brought up was I brought up this issue of the one and the many. And, you know, I'm kind of torn between how far and how deeply do I try and equip someone? to what extent do they understand the things that I'm saying and I want to stretch them. And this is a tough thing because I want to stretch people so that they understand more than what they think they do or more than what they came in with.

And it's something that I've been doing for a long time. I'll go to a seminar and I'll teach and I find out where they're at And I'll usually present something they haven't heard of before. And just to stretch them a little bit. I want to stretch them and get them to understand some more. And so on Monday, I went to Winston-Salem area of North Carolina, met a bunch of pastors.

They were great guys. Really was good. Really had a good time. and I don't know, about 15 or 20, I guess, and we just sat and talked, and they asked me some questions, because it was Stu Epperson. Hey, Stu.

He arranged it, and they're really good guys. They were. It's a really nice church, too, with a coffee shop add-on. Really good. It was great.

A lot of good guys doing a lot of good stuff, and I quizzed them a little bit on some doctrine terms, and some of them knew some stuff.

Some didn't. But that's okay because they don't do what I do in apologetics all the time. They don't need to know all that stuff. But, you know, because being a pastor, I'm telling you, being a pastor can take a lot of your time. You get up at 2 o'clock in the morning because you get a phone call.

You've got to go to ER and pray for somebody. You know, things like that. I have the privilege of being able to study and write and release articles and do radio and things like that. And so it's a different privilege than they have because it's a privilege to serve God in whatever capacity it might be that he has ordained for them to do that.

So a lot of good guys there and enjoyed their company. And who knows, maybe we'll get back out there sometime and do some more seminar-ing and equip people. And one of the things we talked about, and this is me testing the waters because I don't know how accurate my observations are because my worldview is skewed by the areas that I focus on. I deal a lot with unbelievers and with false religious systems. And I'm in that environment quite a bit.

Not the average Joe mechanic and Susie the waitress and mom and dad, not the average people like that. But I deal with a lot of the antagonists of the Christian faith. And so one of the things I've learned is that, for the most part, Christians don't know their faith very well. It's not like they have to have a master's degree in theology or anything like that, but they just generally don't know it very well. And it's been on my heart for years to motivate pastors to teach their congregation members theology, or at least offer an opportunity for them to be able to study more.

Now, what's the value in this?

Well, the value in it is that you learn God better. You learn the basics of the Bible better. You learn how God has revealed things better. And you can be a better Christian because of it. And you can answer questions more.

I really think that theology is critical to the Christian faith. I really do. I really think theology is very important. and I think that too many pastors forego it. I'm not saying these pastors that I met I'm not judging them.

I mean, no way. It seems like really godly guys. But overall, it seems in America that the Christian faith just isn't as intellectually astute and as biblically astute as they need to be. That's not to say everybody's got to be like me. I'm not saying that.

But I was thinking, you know, if I were a pastor of a church, again, I think I would, you know, just have a normal sermon on a Sunday. And the generic thing is you go through the Bible, not knocking that at all. Do expositional, occasional topical, because expositional really is where you want to be, but sometimes it's necessary to do a topic thing where you could get into an area of Scripture. You want to lay some truths down so they have a foundation for the area you going to go through And I think that good But you know I would probably on a Wednesday night or something like that have an opportunity to have the church come together and learn more advanced stuff, where I actually would teach apologetics and theology. When I say apologetics, I don't mean you need to have a three-ring binder notebook set.

We're going to start with A, and here we go, and you've got to memorize all this stuff. That's not what I'm talking about. about the idea of what it means to present and provide the basics of the Christian faith and relate them to the needs of dealing with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or atheists, Muslims, Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox, because they all preach false gospels. And so the Christians need to be equipped. And I can't help but wonder, you know, I wonder if I could go to, there's a, you know, what's it, the Pew Research.

I wonder what they have done in regards to the average Christian church member's knowledge. And just got to be careful here, because just because I think that knowledge will improve everything else, maybe it won't. It reminds me when I was in college on my social science degree, I had a project. my thesis was that the better you understand the Bible and who God is and what he's done, the better you will be at witnessing. That was my theory.

And it turned out that it was wrong. The research that I did did not disclose that information. It disclosed something else. It's an issue of confidence and being led. But, you know, I don't know what I assume is correct.

But I'm still thinking about it out loud on the issue of we need to know the faith because as our society gets more hostile, we need to understand how to find that gospel even better. You'll be right back after these messages. Please give me a call, 877-207-2276. Be right back. it's matt slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276 here's matt slick all right and welcome back to the show let's see wait a minute there we go oh the mic was a weird thing there hey look if you want to give me a call i want to hear from you all you're going to do is dial 8772-072276.

You can also send me an email at info at carm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, and put the subject line, radio comment, or radio question, and we can get to those. I'm looking in our email area now, and, ooh, interesting, interesting. There's so many interesting things. Like in Austin, Texas, the atheist community of Austin is proud to host a presentation by so-and-so, the Antibag. You know, they work hard, don't they, to damn themselves.

I wish that they did not do that. But the arrogance of people to say that naturalism is sufficient to explain everything, it is foolishness to hold that position. There's no warrant to the idea that naturalism, materialism can't explain everything. Transcendentals, universal, subjective morals, it can't do it. It's insufficient.

Nevertheless, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. I've got a bunch of questions I'm seeing. And let's get to Jay from Arizona. Jay, welcome. You're on the air.

hey matt uh thank you for taking my call i've been realizing lately um through first peter 1 3 and other scriptures that god is not only the direct agent of action in the new birth but he's the cause and what that has done for me is laid the axe at the root of synergism um monergism is true, Reformed theology is true, and I'm humbled. Your thoughts. Wow. You're right. Monergism is true.

Synergism is false, for those who don't know what it is. Monergism is that God alone is the author, perfecter of our faith. We don't cooperate with God and do good works in order to obtain salvation, but he grants that we have faith, Philippians 1.3. Excuse me, cause us to be born again, 1 Peter 1.3. And he grants we have faith, Philippians 129.

And, yeah, it is humbling. It is humbling. And yet at the same time, we can pray and ask God to save someone else. And he hears our prayers. We don't know how it all works.

As my friend Bill McIver says, we're in sales, not production.

So, yes, I'm with you. I agree. I totally agree with Reformed theology. It is the biblical, let me put it this way, It's the systematic theological approach that answers the most questions. That's what I say.

Yeah, good for you. Yeah, I think it completely lays the axe at the root of Arminianism based upon. And, you know, Romans 9, 16 also shows us the direct cause of our new birth is not a decision of our will, but God who mercies. and I think this is missing in modern day western Christian theology where we are not taught as we should that you know it's on one hand we know our physical birth our parents caused it to occur but for some reason a lot of Christians don't see that the new birth is caused 100% by the Lord and what this is doing for me is is causing a deep reverence of i'm just in awe of the lord because i'm realizing i you know he granted me faith he regenerated me he caused me to believe he's doing it it's his election it's his choosing he made me a vessel of mercy it's very humbling and uh and Not everybody is a vessel of mercy. We're taught this in the church, too, Matt, that, you know, everybody's salvifically loved by God.

It's false. It's a Disney fairy tale. It's not true. And Reformed theology cuts through all the theological baloney and the Disneyland fairy tale that people teach in the pulpit and gives us the raw truth. Jacob have I loved, Esau as I hated one is merciful, one is not given mercy we're not off the side of God, your thoughts yes, you're correct and one of the things I would delight in doing is being invited to a reformed conference and be able to teach these kinds of things without having to soften the blow.

Because the Bible tells us not to pass judgment on debatable issues. And there are some debatable things in here. And the essentials of the Christian faith are not the five points of Reformed theology. But on the other hand, it is such a delight to be able to speak the truth about God's sovereignty, God's election, God's predestination, God's atonement, God's regenerative work, God's modern just a calling God's granting us faith God this God that I would love to be able to speak that I'd love to be able to get up in front of a group and just say it unvarnished raw biblical truth and go for it but I've found that a lot of people don't want that and it's not that I'm trying to cater my message or curtail the truth for them it's that just the simple fact is a lot of people are just not capable of receiving this yet and we've got to be careful and pastoral We don't want to have them be traumatized by various theological doctrines, which are simply true.

So that's the area of concern that I have to minister. But still, on the other hand, yeah, I'm with you. I love the doctrines of grace.

Sola fide, sola gratia, Christ alone, faith alone. Amen, brother. Yeah, I know it's a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow. But, you know, I would rather know the truth. And I appreciate what you just stated about, you know, people can be traumatized, you know, when you're shaken out of your cognitive dissonance and the lies you've been fed.

You know, I was not raised with these truths through much prayer and asking God to guide me into the truth. it's sobering and um you know it's um it's like when paul wrote behold the severity and goodness of god you know on us who believe the goodness of god if we continue in faith but others severity because they were not granted faith and you know it's sobering but i'm glad i know the truth and at the end of the day matt as a reformed person now i'm reformed i wasn't before i i just have a deeper reverence, and I thank the Lord that, thank you for giving me faith in Christ. It was not of my doing, and I was a little traumatized, I'm going to tell you the truth, when I started learning these things, because it just shook me, because I wasn't taught them, but I'm forever grateful I learned them, because I'd rather know the full spectrum than just the Disneyland version of Christianity. You know, you got me thinking here about saying something. I can't help but wonder if there's a, I've got to be careful how I say this, if there's a relationship between submitting to the great sovereignty of God, as Reformed theology says, and the other side of theology that provides comfort for people so that they in a sense atrophy.

And that's what Reformed theology does not allow. It does not allow us to atrophy. Hey, we'll be right back folks after these messages and if you want to stay, Jay, please do. If not, that's okay. We'll be right back folks, please.

Stay tuned. Don't go away. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, but welcome back to the show. Everybody, if you want to give me a call, it's easy, 877-207-2276. Jay, are you still there by any chance? Yes, Matt, I'm still here. Do you have other callers on the line?

No, we don't.

So go ahead.

Okay, yeah, well, then I wouldn't feel guilty then hogging up a little more time. Sure. Yeah, I just wanted to say also, Matt, that since I know you're reformed, and I'm reformed now, We know that election is immutable. I think as the children of God believers in Jesus Christ we should I don know how to say it but like be joyful about that and rejoice that we been given faith and rejoice that we born again If it's immutable and we're children of God, praise the Lord, we're regenerated. Your thoughts?

Yes.

Now, the word immutable, for those who don't understand, is unchangeable. And so it's a really good point is that the election of God is immutable in that it does not change. An election is the choosing of by God of those for salvation. This is Ephesians 1, 4 and 2 Thessalonians 2, 13. And it's what Scripture says.

He chose us in him before the foundation of the world that we would be holy and blameless and love he predestined us to adoption as sons. And 2 Thessalonians 2, 13 says he chose us from the beginning for salvation.

Now, Jason, just so you know, when I teach theology, and I plan to be on TikTok tonight, probably around 9 p.m. Eastern time, and Christians come in and they'll ask me questions like this, and I'll teach them this kind of stuff. They'll ask me about this thing called predestination or this thing called reformed theology, and I'll go through scriptures. And I'll tell you repeatedly, people are shocked. And these have been Christians 10, 15, 20 years, and they don't know.

They haven't heard this stuff. And so one of the things I'll say to them is, well, why not? It's in the Bible.

So if your pastor is going through teaching the scriptures as they should be doing, you should hear about this because it's in the Bible. But so many of them have never heard it, which tells me that a lot of pastors are skipping this stuff.

Now, why would they be doing that? Because they have an agenda. And the agenda is not as biblically based as they might think because otherwise the people would have heard these teachings because that's in the scriptures. And people, sometimes pastors, have their motives, and they don't want to get into the idea of election predestination because God doesn't do that kind of thing. It's up to your free will.

They have a theological veneer that they have wiped everything with, and that's how they see everything. It's unfortunate, but I think that's the case. You know? Yes, well, I enjoy chatting with you. You know, I know you're Reformed, and it's kind of therapeutic for me to call in, even though I haven't met you in person.

And, you know, there's not a lot of Reformed people that I've met, so it's kind of nice just to chat without getting a lot of pushback. And then I know you're a teacher and a theologian, so, you know, you've helped me through my journey. I wasn't always Reformed, but I've listened to dozens of your videos, your teaching on YouTube of the doctrines of grace. I watched everything you've produced about irresistible grace, predestination, election, and it's helped me.

So I just want to say thank you. I appreciate your work, and God bless.

Well, thank you, and it's good for me to hear that every now and then because, to be honest, sometimes I just wonder, is it reaching anybody? Is it affecting anybody? Because, you know, you don't hear it all the time.

So it's nice to hear, and I appreciate that. Thank you. You're welcome. Take care, Matt. Thanks.

Bye-bye. All right. You too. God bless. All right.

We have nobody waiting right now. And, you know, now I'm thinking because, you know, I was just out there in North Carolina. And that's the territory of Billy Graham and Baptist churches. It's a lot of churches, a lot of Baptist churches out there and different names. Interesting.

I can't remember one of them. And that was one of the really interesting primitive Baptist. That's one of the ones I saw. And I went, why would you want to be primitive? I want to be, what do you, you preach out of stone tablets?

What's primitive? I don't know.

So anyway, so, you know, I like so many things I want to say, but I don't want to say because I don't want to needlessly offend anybody. but let's just say that sometimes people don't do well let me just say it they don't do well with god being god and not themselves they don't do well with the idea that god's a sovereign king and he chooses us for salvation they want it to be in their own power their own ability their own wisdom and the idolatry that is present in their own hearts this is why they refuse the doctrines of grace and the doctrines of god's great sovereignty and election because they're idolaters in their heart. Does it mean they're not Christian? It means that they've set up certain things that they think are true, and they bow to them, that God would never do ABC because he's too good for that, because Jesus is the blonde-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian surfer dude dressed in a woman's nightgown who would never hurt anybody. And they say, no, it's up to you.

He stands at the door of your heart, Romans, excuse me, Revelation 3.20, and he asks for permission for you to let him in. All this misapplied scripture and all this kind of stuff that's out there, and I can't help but wonder if this is the kind of thing that's castrating the ability of people to be potent in the word of God and the preaching of that word. Because I'll tell you, so many Christians just seem to be beaten down, don't have that confidence, don't know what's going on, don't have that oomph to be able to speak and preach. And that just bothers me.

Now, again, I have to say this. I have to say this because my view is only my view. And I can be quite wrong about it. And I've not done a complete survey. I've not collected information on this, but this is the impression that I've gotten over the years.

That's what I've received over the years. And it's pretty bad. And what really is interesting is when Christians start rejecting the sovereignty and the greatness of God for their own. I see that a lot. God would never choose people for salvation.

It's up to us. And they reject scripture when they do that. and they raise up their own philosophical ideology in place of the truth. And it happens a lot. And in my opinion, if pastors covenanted with God to get on their knees and pray and say, Lord, let your word speak, just turn it loose from the cage that we haven't kept in.

And, you know, the cage we don't want to unlock because we've got to preamble the wisdom of God, the truth of his word with a story and nice music and a good setting and good lighting. And we comfort people because we want people to attend our church. And, you know, idols like that as well. And so we've got to be careful that we don't do that kind of a thing, that we set the truth of God's word free. And I think a lot of pastors think they've started teaching the idea that God's the sovereign king.

And then we bow to him. And he's sovereign over everything from all eternity. And that means a lot of stuff. I think a lot of pastors think they'll lose members. Or people will stop coming.

I say, look, so be it. Teach the truth. Don't be worried. That's what I say. Let's get to Ann from North Carolina.

Ann, welcome. You're on the air. Hello. I'm one that has been taught the other way about reform, and so that everyone has the choice to come to Jesus.

So I'm thinking, so if I choose Jesus, which I did, was I already chosen? And did I decide that I'm part of the chosen? and I know that he already chose, but how do I know that I didn't make that choice and now I call myself the chosen, but I'm really not?

Well, the Bible says these things are written so you may know you have eternal life. 1 John 5.13. You can know you have eternal life because if you trust in Jesus, and that's it. God is the one who grants that you have the faith, but you do the believing. He grants that you actually choose.

You can understand that he's one who gives you that foundation and works it in you, but you do the believing. You do the receiving. You do that believing.

So if you've trusted in Christ, and in your heart you have, you believe in him, and you believe he's God in flesh, died in the cross, rose from the dead, then you're saved. And that's one of the manifestations of God's election. And election is not just simply an arbitrary thing that God does. A lot of people think it is. You're in, you're out, you're in, you're out.

in no matter what you believe or say that doesn't make any difference that's not how it works his election is as he woos us and works through others prayers and works in the ways that god does that we don't even know about and then he he grants we have that faith and we believe in jesus and we really do and it's the work of god and yet we're the one doing it also so there you go okay all Okay. Thank you. Sure. Thank you so much. You're welcome so much.

Well, God bless.

Okay. All right. Now the next longest wait in person is Bonnie from North Carolina. Bonnie, welcome. You're on the air.

Hi, Matt. How are you? I'm all right. I'm all right. How are you doing?

I'm good. I'm good. I'm like Ann. I believe, I think I'm like Ann. I believe that salvation is open to everyone.

I know there are verses on election and predestination, but there are also many verses where it says he would have all men to be saved and come. We can talk about it. We've got a break.

Sorry, because I really want to hear what you have to say.

So please hold on, okay? Bonnie, really appreciate you. And we'll be right back, folks, after these messages. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. We'll be right back.

it's matt slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276 here's matt slick all right welcome back to the show last segment of the hour let's get back on with with bonnie all right bonnie there you go back on here okay okay i was i was saying that there are verses about election and predestination, but there are also many verses that say that he's not willing that any should perish, he would have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, even John 3.16 says whistoe ever. And Romans chapter 1 says that creation shows to God his that man is without excuse, but he knows that God is the way that leads to destruction and that most people will not be saved, but I feel like he chooses us all, but we don't all choose him back, and he already knows those the will, the will. Yeah, that's common. I've got to be careful here because, you know, I appreciate what you're saying, and what you're saying is commonly referred to me in many different ways. We can talk about this.

So, John 3.16, for example, does not say whosoever. It's in the English that says it, but it's not in the Greek. The Greek word for whosoever is hos, and it's not there. What is there is pas hapestumon, all the believing one. And it's a really interesting phrase.

So it says, the God of the world that all the one believing. It doesn't say whoever as though they have some free will ability. It just says all the ones that believe.

Now, why do they believe?

Well, we know from Philippians 129, Paul says to you, it has been granted to believe. God grants that people believe. But then there the issue of well he wants all to be saved And I ask people there different questions I can ask Well if God wants every individual to be saved does god know what is necessary in order to get anybody to believe freely and the answer of course is well yes then why doesn't he do it because he can appear to anybody in their glory he can convict them of their hearts he moves at the heart of the king where he wishes to go proverbs 21 1 he's the one who grants that they have faith lipians 129 Jesus says in John 6, 29, this is the work of God that you believe.

So God can work the belief. He can grant that they believe. He can appear to them in visions and dreams. He can work anything so that they believe. The question then becomes, well, why doesn't he?

This is one of the questions I ask people. If he wants every individual to believe and you think that means he really desires it, and that's what he's hoping for, well, then he has the power to make anybody believe freely by simply just appearing and doing what he wants. And another question I'll ask is, if it's the case that, you know, 2 Peter 3, 9 and 1 Timothy 2, 4, he wants all to be saved.

Well, then I ask the question, if the all means every individual, then we have other questions we can ask. One is, why does Jesus speak in parables? In Mark 4, 10 through 12, he tells us, so people will not be forgiven. He actually says, that's why he speaks in parables, so people will not be forgiven.

Now we have a question. If he wants every individual to be saved, then why does he speak in parables so people will not be saved? Then we have to dig deeper, okay? Go ahead.

Okay, well, I was just going to say, I mean, I think he would have all men to be saved, but he knows those who want. It doesn't matter. I mean, I know he knows how to get our attention for those who will be saved. I just think it's very complicated. And so I look at the great white throne judgment where the unsaved dead are going to stand before Jesus Christ, and the books are going to be opened, and that's everything that people have done, and they're going to suffer based on their deeds.

But the book of life is going to be there with a blank where their name might have been. And to me, believing as you do, it's like some people say, well, Lord, you never gave me a chance to believe.

Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Wait, hold on. Let me ask you. Is God obligated to give everybody a chance to believe?

He's not obligated. He can leave God. He can do whatever he wants to do. Yeah, so there's no theological statement, nothing in the Bible that says that he's obligated to make everyone equally able to believe or not believe. It's up to their choice.

It's not in the scriptures. In fact, it's not in the scriptures that God's will, when he desires something to accomplish it, it will be accomplished.

So when we say he wants all to be saved, another question we can ask is, who's the all? I actually have a study I take people through from scripture and I show them things. Let me show you something. For example, we know that the Bible says that we've died with Christ, Romans 6, 8. We were crucified with Christ, Romans 6.6.

We were crucified with Christ. Never let I live. And only the believers have died with Christ, right? Only the believers. Yes.

Okay? All right. Now, well, here's the thing. Yes.

We know that it's, so whenever we read in Scripture where anyone has died to sin, died to self, died to the world, died with Christ, it's only the believers. But what's a really interesting verse is 2 Corinthians 5.14, which says, The love of Christ controls us, having included this, that one died for all. Therefore, all died. Who's the all who died? It's not the unbelievers, but it's the believers.

And he says he died for all, therefore all died.

So who did he die for, according to Paul, right there? The believers. Just the believers.

So would we then say he died for the unbelievers? because that's not how the phraseology is picked up there. And I show people this. Jesus says he lays his life down for the sheep. John 10, 11.

And he says in John 10, 26, you're not my sheep.

So we see this stuff and we go, okay, what does it mean he wants all to be saved? I could do a study. I've shown people this stuff before. They say, we've never seen this before. Never even heard this stuff before that I can show people in the scriptures of how God uses the term all in relationship to people.

in salvation in groups. It's just never taught from pulpits, but it should be.

So there's a lot there, but John 3, 16 does not have the word whosoever. It's not there. It's literally the Greek is all the believing one. But he will have all men to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus leaving your heart, then you will be saved.

And who's the all? Who's the all that he wants saved? the ones that he's chosen. There you go. But he knows the ones that are going to respond to his, respond to the gospel.

Nope. Because he knows the goats are out there. No, that's actually humanist philosophy.

Sorry, but I've got to say it like it is. He knows those who are going to respond is saying that God will choose the one that he knows will respond to him.

So God's choice now depends upon man's choice. That means man is sovereign and God is not. And this is one of the problems in the Christian church in America today, is the human philosophy that's creeping in. God's choice does not depend on us. Before the foundation of the world, he knows those that will be saved.

Because he called them, not because. Everybody can be convicted. They can be convicted, but then they can say no. You see, that's humanist philosophy. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. Okay. It is. See, look, God grants that people have faith, Philippians 129. To you it has been granted to believe.

Jesus says, you cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the Father. This is what... Draw by the Father, yes. It doesn't say draw. I know.

That's John 6.44. It doesn't say that. It says in John 6.65, Jesus, you cannot come to me unless it's granted by God the Father. That's it.

So God has to grant it to you. That you come to him. And most people teach, well, it's just up to my wisdom and my freedom. It's up to me, me, me. But that's not what the scriptures teach.

I just got another thought I meant to say, or I thought about before. God gave Jesus. He gave Judas to Jesus. But Judas didn't choose Jesus because Jesus prayed. He said, I've lost none that you gave me except the son of perdition.

Judas was never a believer John 6 talks about that John 6, 67 I think it is that he was an unbeliever from the very beginning he was given covenantally but God gave him to Jesus yes, covenantally he's part of the covenant community of Israel and he was chosen actually by God to be the one who would fall and betray Christ because he was never a believer Jesus knew this when he chose Judas. I know. Because he said, my dear friend is going to, that's in the Old Testament. Your what? One of the Psalms.

I'm sorry, what? Old Testament?

Well, he said, one of my friends is going to betray me. That's my wording, is in one of the Psalms. That was predicted. Yes, yes. But you see, Jesus chose him knowing he would betray him.

So Jesus chose him so that he would do his job. because if Jesus had not have chosen Judas, Judas would never have been one of the 12 who then could betray him. Right. But I was just going by that wording. He said, I'm also known that you gave me because that was going like what you said, that God the Father has to give those to be saved.

But he gave Judas, but we all know that he was given so that Christ would die. But there's another thing that a lot of pastors I've encountered don't know, and it's covenant theology. It's a woefully sad situation in America that pastors are not teaching covenant, but they're teaching dispensationalism. I think dispensationalism has done far more damage to the Christian church than a lot of teachings. Covenant theology is where we need to be because it's based on the covenant work of God in the inter-Trinitarian communion.

Covenant is based on God in the Trinity, but dispensationalism is based on man's interpretation of how God works in different times. and so if you don't understand covenant you won't understand that Israel itself was chosen by God the people of Israel but it doesn't mean they were all saved the nation of Israel rebelled against God yet he was their chosen people so being chosen doesn't mean that you're saved in that covenantal aspect it means you could be included in the covenant and so like I said before I firmly believe that the Christian church is overall woefully ignorant of good biblical theology and has replaced a lot of good stuff with man-centered theology. It's up to us and our wisdom. And here's another thing. Why is it one person believes and another one does not under that theological perspective?

If it's just up to us, why does one believe and another one does not? And this is a question that I ask them. And then the basic response is, look, because that's just what they did.

Well, why is that what they did? Why? And they don't have an answer. because I guess I'm trying to put God in a benevolent box it is benevolent this is the only way to see him as being benevolent because if salvation depends upon the whims of man's sinful self no one would be saved we are by nature children of wrath Ephesians 2.3 dead in our sins Ephesians 2.1 cannot receive spiritual things Corinthians 2.14, are slaves of sin, Romans 6.14-20, does not seek for God, does no good, Romans 3.10.11.12. This is what the Bible said about the unbeliever.

The sovereignty of God is wedded with his love, and that's where people get saved. Not because God says, here, I'm going to roll the dice with your free will. I'm going to choose you if I see you choose me. This is not biblical theology. It's man-made theology.

God doesn't look into the future to see who's going to pick them, and then he chooses them because of how good they're going to be. There's nothing good in them. He chooses because of how good God is, not because of the wisdom and the ability of someone that God then chooses because of their goodness. That's not biblical theology. No one's good.

They're not righteous. None righteous know not one. That's right. That's why God has to grant that they have faith. He grants them faith, grants them repentance, 2 Timothy 2.25, and grants that they come to Christ.

Our job is to ask God to do that for more. And he hears us because we're in Christ. I still go to the great white throne judgment, and I think the people standing there say, well, Lord, I never had a chance. And if he has the book of life there with a blank, I mean, I know you wouldn't entertain them, but I think everybody's in the book until he blocks them out. They have the chance because the truth of God is made known in their hearts and in creation.

And that's a revelation. I mean, that's a romance. Hey, we've got to go. There's a break. We're out of time.

I really enjoyed your call. Call back tomorrow. We'll talk some more.

Okay. Hey, everybody, sorry about that. Jermaine on Freemasons and Oscar on Mark 1618. It'll be interesting. Call back tomorrow.

We'll talk. God bless everybody. Have a great evening.