Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carn.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hey, everybody, welcome to this show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live if. Maybe, perhaps. You want to give me a call? It's easy.

All I have to do is dial 877-2072276. We have nobody waiting right now. You can give me a call if you want. You can also send an email to info at carm.org, info at carm.org. And there we go.

Do that right. Yeah. That's good. And then put in the subject line, radio comment, or radio question, either one of those, we can get to them. And uh I can take a look at them right now actually 'cause we have nobody waiting.

Yesterday I released an article, talked about it. Uh just curious to know if anybody looked at it, what your feedback might be. It's a sophisticated kind of a logical arg Argument dealing with some philosophical principles. trying to demonstrate that only the Christian worldview can make sense of everything. Excuse me.

And I do this kind of a thing every now and then because the level of apologetics I do with some unbelievers necessitates that kind of approach.

So it's not for the average bearer, but there you go. Also, um Uh let's see. Uh I'll be in uh Lord Bowing, you know. Lander's still there in Kannapolis, North Carolina. I'll be speaking at a conference, Ministry to Muslims.

I'll be on Friday night going a little bit of an intro on Friday the 15th, I think it is. An intro on Christianity versus Islam, and then I'll be going over that again in greater depth on the workshop on Saturday. And we'll have panel discussions Friday night, Saturday night lunch, and things like that. Hope any of you want to go and check it out, you can. All I have to do is just go to ministrytomuslims.com.

Ministry TO, ministry to Muslims.com. You can check it out. And I'm going to be putting the address of the stuff online here pretty soon. Just working stuff and been working all kinds of things today. One of those kind of days, you know, where you're just doing a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and just moving forward, doing things.

So, busy, a good busy, a good busy. And uh let's see. It's about it. I think that is about it. We have one caller coming in.

And again, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877207. Two two seven six And also, um I've got some ideas in my head. I'm going to talk about it now. We've got a new website that's being released supposedly this month.

So hopefully this month the new website will be released. And it's going to be zippery-dooda. It's going to be fast. It's not going to be super good looking. uh it's going to be very practical.

And uh Um We'll probably change a template on it and stuff later on, things like that. But it's going to have some serious AI integration into it. It's not going to get your serial numbers and all this stuff. It's not going to reach into your life. What it does is provide the opportunity for people to be able to.

Um Track what they've been doing online on the Carm site, maybe have. Quizzes that it will just offer you on the things that you've read. It'll keep track of information. The search engine will be uh more user-friendly. It'll be uh even more betterer.

It's gonna be really good. We're gonna have a lot of stuff in there, a lot of uh capabilities very fast. Our programmer had to slow it down. Because it was so fast that you could literally he said you could click on the go and look down the screen for the result and it and it had beaten you and you might not even notice it changed.

So he had to slow it down by half a second.

So that you could see it change.

So, stuff like that. And it's going to be propagated out through Cloudflare. Will not be centralized and it'll be out over the world, and people will be able to. Access it literally split anywhere in the world. And also, what's happening is AI is going through.

artificial intelligence and they're doing something called scraping. And so let's say there's 100 websites, and you frequent these 100 websites, and these 100 websites have 100 articles each.

Well, that's ten thousand articles, okay.

So then you could go and to look at these different ones and get answers or go to Google and type in a question and those one hundred and it'll give you articles to read. What AI does is it scrapes those ten thousand articles and those one hundred websites And then summarizes everything in itself, and then you just ask a question that provides the summary information. And so web scraping is wonderful. It is incredible. It's fast.

It's better than just Google search.

However, one of the detriments to it is that is that you don't they need to go to those websites anymore.

Well, that's not what we want. We want people to come to Carm. We want people to go check it out because Carm has a trust factor that a lot of websites don't have and a lot of AI doesn't have.

So our web dude will be working it such that uh the scraping uh features of AI are limited. And so that it'll provide links back to articles on the Carmen site so you can go for more information and things like that. This is what he said he's going to be working on, which is it'll be really good. He said it'll be the only website he's aware of. Only Christian Apologetics, or the Christian website he's aware of, that'll have these features and more.

There's a lot of stuff behind the scenes, it'll be exceedingly secure. And we're going to be working the donation system, the forums, working things out over the next, towards the end of the year here, getting things going. There's just so much to work on. And that's it, you know. And your support, I'm just telling you, your support really helps because that's how we do it.

That's how we're able to. Like today, I had to go to the bank and pay the missionaries, and now we're broke. And, well, I shouldn't say that we're not broke. But, you know, our funds are low. But you know what?

The Lord provides, and He does that. He provides, and we're somehow. We're always able to make our bills just somehow, some way. We're able to always make what we need to make in order to pay the bills and stuff like that. I'm going to be going through the Karm Empire.

Intergalactic Empire, getting a financial report ready for everything, and all the board of directors, and anyone else who would want to have that information because it's everyone see free. And so, if you want to support us, you can do that. It's easy. All you have to do is go to carm.org, C-A-R-M.org forward slash donate, and everything you need is right there. We ask $10 a month.

Not a whole bunch, it's not really that much. And uh And if we can get a thousand people doing that, we should be able to make our budgets without any without any sweat, worry, fear. That is often on my plate. Oh, we're going to be able to make this. I should know better by now because so many times the Lord just provided the last minute, and I'm telling you.

I'm telling you, there's a lot of times when it's like we don't have enough. And I come home from the P.O. box getting the check, and there'll be a check in there that's just enough to cover us. This has happened so many times.

So the Lord is good. And just praise God. And He uses you. He uses you, and we appreciate it. Oh, that reminds me.

On the newsletter, I have a newsletter I put out on Tuesdays. People get to see it on Wednesday mornings. And so, I have an Amazon wish list. And people have actually contacted Carm and said, put things on the wish list.

So it's kind of hard to find things really to put on the wish list. You know, maybe a mouse or two or a keyboard or just some basic things, but we don't need a whole bunch. And so I do put things on there every now and then. And batteries, or just stuff, you know, just minor stuff. And someone sent a mouse to us today, and there wasn't any return.

Little thing you look at and take a picture with your phone, and it you can set a thank you.

So I don't know if you're listening or not, but thank you. We appreciate that to all of you who support us that way as well. Let's get to Barry from Philly. Barry, welcome here on the air. Thanks.

Thank you for taking my call.

So my question is I I watched Um a few of your Can you hear me? Yes, I hear you.

Okay. All right.

So I've watched a few of your debates, and you use a term. I really can't pronounce it, but a communicato idiomato, something like that. Yeah, communicatio idiomato. It's fun saying it. It's just fun to say it.

If you're in a date with a game, it is once you can get it down pat. Yeah, it's the communication of the properties, is what it means: communication of the properties. Or if you want to impress your girlfriend, it's communicative. Are you able to break that down for? For me, what like had a pressure girlfriend?

I can help you. May not be a good impression, but I can definitely impress her. I can tell you how to impress her. All right.

Okay, so you want to know what it is, then, right? All right.

Okay, so it's the communication of the properties.

Now, before we get to that, we've got to go backwards, so to speak, to another doctrine. Because that's the other doctrine, it's the foundation of this one. The other doctrine is called the hypostatic union. Hypostatic union. What that means is Jesus.

alone is one person with two natures. He alone has what we call the hypostatic union. It is the union of the divine and the human natures in the one person. The two natures remain distinct, But they're within the one person. But the two natures remain distinct, but they are in the one person of Christ, okay?

You make sense? Yeah. So that's really important. It's called the hypostatic union, and that is true Orthodox Christianity. Without it, we don't have the atonement.

Without it, we don't have salvation. Without it, we don't have true doctrine, etc. All right.

The communication of the properties is something a little bit different. In that it says, those two natures. the divine nature and the human nature of Christ each have properties.

So, for example, the divine nature is everywhere all the time, knows everything. The human nature is limited, needs to eat, go to the bathroom, and take naps. And so the human and the divine nature have these attributes, and so the communication of the properties is saying that the properties or the attributes of both natures are ascribed. to the single person.

So within Jesus are two natures, a divine nature and a human nature, but those natures have properties. have attributes. and Jesus claims the attributes. of both for himself.

So Jesus will say, I am thirsty. That's human. Jesus will say, I will be with you always, even at the end of the earth. That's divine. Jesus says, Glorify me, Father, with the glory I had with you before the foundation of the world.

Or Jesus says we need to walk over there.

So He says, you know, he says, I need to go rest. I need to eat. I need to.

So, what Jesus is one person, we say he will say, I, or you come to me. This is a signification of him being one person. And as the one person, he has the attributes of both the divine and the human nature.

So you could say, I'll be with you always, and I'm thirsty. And This is critical theology because only the human aspect of the human nature of Jesus died on the cross. Not the divine. Divinity cannot die.

Well, if only the human nature of Christ, the human physical flesh of Christ, died, how's a sacrifice of divine value? It's of divine value because Jesus Is the one person with divine attributes and human attributes, and the one person died on the cross, therefore, the sacrifice is of divine value.

Okay? Makes sense. Are you there? I'm I'm here. Yeah.

Thank you.

Okay, so did that did that help? Yes, that helped. Thank you.

Alright.

So, you can go to my website and you can read up on this.

Now, let me tell you. These two doctrines are critical in Christian thought.

Now, for the average Joe, they don't need to know all this stuff. The average person, hey, Jesus is God, and He died for my sins, rose from the dead, I believe in him, I'm saved. That's what most people need to know. But I need to know a lot more because of what I do and then I just tell people these things so they make sense. All right?

There we go, man. All right, buddy. Go ahead of time and there's a break. Thank you very much. You're welcome, Barry.

Call back anytime, man. Call back. They posted right back affirming messages, please. Thank you.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. You're really welcome. Two That's a good question. I'm seeing that get me thinking.

So, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-2072276. Yeah, that's good.

Okay, sorry about that. Let's get to Jermaine from California. Jermaine, welcome, buddy. You're on the air. Hey, man, I um You know, I wanted to pick up where we left off on, I think that was Monday.

You know, I called, and there was a a quite agitated man who was questioning the authority of Paul. Yeah. And uh well, you know, I I he's not the only one I've heard I've heard that same attack on Paul from Various people, it seems like the same spirit, just changing faces, changing colors. But the thing I never understood is when people do that, It seems like they Pick and choose which doctrines they don't like. I mean, there's so much of the New Testament that was written by Paul.

And he said he was inspired by Christ to do so. And there were no rebuttals in scripture that there were challenges, but people started to see things this way. Why do people take out Paul in particular to attack. I'll start my question off with that. Yeah, sure.

People do that a lot because they don't like what Paul teaches. And then they'll try and set Paul against Jesus. And that's a mistake. And so they don't like the idea of justification by faith alone in Christ alone and things like that.

So th they they'll often do that, and that's just how it works sometimes. I wrote an article last year, earlier this year, I don't know, where did Paul and Jesus teach the same thing? And I show the parallel.

Well they did. Je uh Paul taught election, so did Jesus. Paul, I believe, taught limited atonement, so did Jesus. persevered to the saints, so did Jesus. And so I found these places and I have an article on that.

So people will often try and say that they teach contrary things and that Christianity is really Pauline's ap ap um apostate philosophy. But it's not true.

So, you know, and I showed the same thing. Yeah. Right. And the thing that really disturbs me the most when I hear these arguments, it seems to be. When people attack things written by Paul, they're they're actually attacking Doctrine that I mean, he said he was inspired by the Holy Spirit and.

it it typically leads to various heresies. and justification of things that That are not proven biblically. You know, not just talking about the subject that particular caller brought up, but. It it just really kind of it it just perplexes me why people even have the goal to um challenge And then at the same time, say they're representing God as well. It just makes no sense, but.

You know, from like you said, justification by faith, grace. I mean, even resurrection, there's so many things. That he touched on. I'm just curious where they thought he got a lot of these ideas. Yeah, it's it's kind of interesting, uh really.

Uh I've talked to many people over the years and they don't really have any solid reasons uh for that I've seen any common thing. There's just a variety of of reasons that are unfounded, illogical and just emotional. Mostly. why they don't accept Pauline uh authority. Um It's really interesting.

It is. And I've met a few over the years, and I've just discussed things with them, like they did on the radio, and you heard, and I said, well, that's what Jesus says, like Acts 9:15. But Jesus said to Ananias, Go, for he, that's Paul, is a chosen instrument of mine. To bear my name before the Gentiles. I mean, so to say that Paul is not a true apostle is to say that.

that Jesus was wrong. and that's why I brought it out. to that guy you get yesterday or the day, whatever the day it was. That's what Paul says, that's what Jesus says. H nine fifteen?

Okay. Wait, do do you think that Those attacks are Just out of ignorance or they Or do they start to border on almost like satanic in in nature where 'cause it reminds me of the garden. where you know, if the enemy says that did God say That that's kind of where it seems to lead for a lot of people because I I see people You know, they question and they become Sherlock Holmes and they're great detectives. all of a sudden and say, well, God didn't really say This and that. It's like, well, he clearly says he did.

That's the problem we're having here. Right. That's right. I'm with you, brother. Um Yeah, it and You beat me to the punch, so to speak.

It's ultimately demonic in that anyone who would deny who Paul really is, according to the scriptures called by Jesus, is the spirit of the Antichrist. They are not affirming the truth and work of who Paul. Jesus is because Jesus has the authority to call whom he wishes to be an apostle. to do uh the work and he did. he called Paul, and that's just what it is.

So they need to believe it.

Okay. You'd have to attack all the subsequent teachings that he gives to Timothy and And the church as a whole, you know, just starting from the top and then you all of a sudden you have no New Testament really, so. Just, you can make whatever doctrine you want. That's kind of where it seems like the folks are going. Heck yeah, you got that right.

People make their own doctrines. And the Bible prophesies about people who gather to themselves teachers that tickle their ears, not following after sound doctrine. And this is just another example of the kind of heresies that exist that people promote. And it's just what it is. It's unfortunate.

But it's tr it's unfortunately true that they do that, you know. Yeah. It's not. Oh, well I'm gonna go search Parm for some uh Articles. It just said I had to hop on and say something and just discuss them a little bit 'cause it was really.

It was hilarious and annoying at the same time because it made no It's like trying to argue with the Joker or something. You're caught up in your own insanity when you you get into these ferocious arguments. That's right. That's right. Okay.

I just deal with them. And you know, I was dealing with a guy last night, an atheist, and I had to cut him off in a discussion room because it's just an example, same formula, different variables, because the guy wouldn't face the issues that I was raising. And it was pretty bad. And um And so finally, we decided to move along because a lot of times people they have an agenda, they have an idea, they refuse to adapt, they refuse to respond to the issues, and they continue to attack. There's a lot of demonic activity out there, and they are often Manifesting in the servants of the devil as they work against the truth of the gospel.

And we just need to stand firm against them. much as possible. Yep. You have to catch up with trapping yesterday, so I have to Catch up on that, but I learned a lot from those encounters.

So I am grateful that you at least. you know, give them a a a little bit of a platform. Yeah, yeah, excuse me, there's a yawn. Oh boy, this is a good yawn. Oh, I wonder how many people just yawned, because I just yawned.

So, yeah, that's it. And hopefully, he'll call back. We can have another discussion. But, you know, what's interesting is one heresy is usually tied to many others. And once you find out one, Then you know what direction to start tugging on.

Let's go this way, see what's out there. And it would be interesting to have a conversation with someone like him and somebody else.

Some others I know of.

Sorry, I'm just remembering another guy I talked to last night. He was saying that, I just gotta say this, he was saying that the God of Calvinism is evil and that all Calvinists are not saved. And so I was trying to argue with the guy, you know, and I mean in a biblical sense, this, that, that, and this. And he wouldn't listen. He kept interrupting.

And I said, let me finish my sentences. And he kept interrupting. I said, you're an obstreperous twit. You've got to stop. He came so unclued.

About that. I got a big kick out of us howling. At any rate, A lot of fun.

Okay, well, so much heresy, still little time. Maybe I go Jeremy Haint. We'll talk to you later, but God bless, man. All right.

Bye-bye, man. All right.

Hey folks, be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hello, everybody.

Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is easy. All you have to do is dial 877. two zero seven two two seven six.

Next longest waiting is Wow.

Okay, there we go. Luke from Washington, D.C. Luke, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt.

How are you? Doing all right. Just doing radio, having a good time. What do you got, man? What's up?

You're talking about the hypostatic union, I heard. Yeah, I was. argued with someone yesterday aga regarding did Jesus have two spirits So we know that teachers have the human body, human soul, human mind. human will, human spirit. Same like Uh uh divine Uh divine soul, divine mind, divine will, divine spirit.

What happened when we d we die?

So this human what happened to the human mind, human will. human spirit. And the human body. Yeah. Um By definition, Jesus came into existence 2,000 years ago.

And what that means is that the union of the divine and the human nature, the union of those two natures. occurred 2,000 years ago. The second person of the Trinity, the Word, became flesh. That's the divine aspect of the person of Christ, who has that nature and the human nature.

So that is who Jesus is, and he forever will be Jesus.

So, therefore, we got noise in the background, man. I've got a lot of stuff going in the background here. A lot of talking. Can you mute yourself?

Okay. Yeah, I'm over here.

Okay. Hello. And so, here I'll mute you. There we go. There we go.

We'll get back to him in a sec. And so, um Because he forever will be Jesus. Therefore he forever has these two natures, and the attributes of both natures forever will be ascribed to the one person.

So Jesus does not have two spirits, he is one spirit, one person.

Now Mm-hmm. What happened when he died? The union of the divine nature and the human nature continued even after death. Because we don't want to say that they were separated at that point, because that would destroy the hypostatic union. And if that destroys the hypostatic union, it also destroys the continuity of personhood.

And this is it's a bit of a philosophical logical issue, and I can expand on it, but it is not workable to say that Jesus' divine excuse me that is human nature had soul sleep. or cease to exist. in any way because that would destroy the person of Christ. Because by definition, the person of Christ has two natures. And that union began 2,000 years ago, you know, at the inception, and it will continue on eternally.

So this cannot be violated, it cannot be destroyed. And um So, anyway, I hope that answers the question. Let's get back on. Are you there, buddy?

Okay. Hello? Yeah. So, I hope that answers that.

So, the thing is, the question is: when he died, his body. resurrected, right? The body is not going to ha um uh paradise, right? His body went to paradise, his spirit went His physical body was in the grave.

Okay, the grave was empty, right? Where was the body?

Okay. The grave had his body in it. Three days later, His body rose from the dead. All right.

Okay. Where is the body now? in heaven. In Paradise? No, in heaven.

Paradise is probably the holding place synonymous with Abraham's bosom. Which is spoken of in Luke 16:19 through 31.

So Jesus is in heaven.

So in the cross.

Okay. At the cross he said, My spirit I committed my spirits.

So he has a spirit, uh a human spirit. He committed to the Father? What happened? There is a true spirit. No.

Okay, Jesus as a person is one spirit. is one person. All right.

You're only saying that I committed my spirit. Because he's one person, and he said, Into your hands I commit my spirit. One person. One spirit.

Okay. So that is a ha uh um human spirit or a spirit.

Okay, let's go over this again. Jesus is by definition both God and man. in one person. Yes. The one person is one spirit.

Okay. So when Jesus died, the hypostatic union, the one spirit of Christ, who is both divine and human, continued on. The physical body was in the grave. But he continued on with two natures during the between the interim between the death and resurrection.

Okay. Alright.

So when the Bible, when John chapter 11, 33 says he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled, what does that mean? He was really bothered a lot.

Okay. So that is the spirit that when Jesus committed to Father.

Okay. The word spirit is used interchangeably in the scriptures to represent different things. A spirit can be a ghost, a spirit can be the essence of a person. The spirit can be an attitude. Right.

It could be a demonic presence.

Okay. So They used said Jesus as a person, one spirit. In Luke 23, he said, Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.

So that refers with human spirit at death. Let's try it again. Jesus by definition. is both divine and human. that attribution of both natures, divine and human, into the one person is what makes up the one spirit.

Okay. Okay. So So let me understand. This one nature, a two nature, one person and one spirit. Yeah, because It's like you know, it the terms are interchangeable.

He's one spirit, he's one person, because spirit and person can be used interchangeably here. A spirit basically is where uh the will, uh, the identity, self-awareness of of a person is. It's synonymous with that, the center of consciousness. where the will is located, okay?

Okay, so in Matthew 26, 38, it says, My soul is very sorrowful, even to death. What is that, Jesus' soul? It's just another way of speaking about his inner heart, inner idea of what he is as a person. His heart is is dist disturbed.

Okay. The word heart, word spirit are used interchangeably, but they also have slight differentiation. Generally, spirit deals with the the essence of a person where the heart deals with the motives. Attitudes and things like that. It's just kind of poetic usage a lot in scripture, okay?

Yeah. Are you there? Yeah, it's c yeah. There are some heresies about this one. Nestorianism.

And apolloniarism, what is that means?

Well, Nestorianism here uh would teach that in the body of Christ are two different persons. And that's not the hypostatic union. He's not two separate persons. This is what oneness theology moves towards.

So they would say two separate spirits, two separate persons. That's Nestorianism. All right.

Yeah. So Apollinarianism would say that Jesus did not have a human soul. That the divine overshadowed the human. and that would be a heresy of false teaching. All right.

Anyway. Uh you have any uh uh writings about this? I need to read. Demi. Yeah, just go to Carm and look up Christian theology and look up the the whole section on Jesus.

I've written a subsection. Many, many articles on him. It'll go through the hypostatic union, communicatu e dumatum, inseparable operations, nature and extent of the Trinity, uh things like that. It'll go through all kinds of stuff.

Okay. So all these uh faggots also, right? I have other articles that list heresies from Apollinarianism to Zoroastrianism. All right, from A to Z. And as far as Christ goes, there's Meophysitism, monophysitism, Nestorianism, Eutychianism.

Um. dossetism, a pollinarianism. things like that. Yeah, there's there's lots. Lots of heresies that people have developed over the years.

Arianism is another one. Oneness theology is also a heresy. Mm-hmm.

So what about Westminster Confession of Faith says about this the two natures are join together in on person, on spirit, right? Like you said.

Well, I'm sure that it does. I haven't read it in so long I can't tell you it does, you know, because I'd like to know that it does. But back in the day when I was being examined for the pastorate, we had to affirm the WCF, and I'm sure I went through it at that time and made sure there's no heresies in it because the people who wrote it were very godly and very knowledgeable Christian theologians.

Alright, so I'm sure.

Okay, buddy? We gotta go, there's a break.

Okay. All right, man, God bless. Hey folks, be right back after these messages, and we'll get with Garland from North Carolina and Jamal, North Carolina. Then Her button. From North Carolina, Myla, North Carolina, people.

I'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show.

If you want to give me a call, it's easy 877-207-2276. Let's get on. It's Garland from North Carolina. Garland, welcome. You're on the air.

Mr. Two. How are you doing today, my brother? We love you. Hey.

Man, now that makes me smile. See, you just made me smile, man. I can't help it. I'm smiling and really love that kind of opening. And I'm glad you love me because, man, at least that's a couple people.

My wife and you. There you go. Ma'am, you 12 and 50, and I've been listening to you for quite a while, but today is the 13th anniversary of God giving me the miracle that I asked him for.

So I said, let me just. to get a special time to call you. Hey, well, praise God.

So I just wanted to see how you interpreted John chapter 14, verse 15. If you love me, keep my commandments. Oh, it's easy. If you love Jesus, do what He says. It's just that simple.

Do what he says. And I have an article on Karm. where I actually did research and I found out The things that Jesus commanded. What are the commandments of Jesus? And I have let's see.

Sixty-two things. Turn the other cheek, uh Treat people how you want to be treated. Take his yoke, and Uh Take courage that Jesus has overcome the world. Take communion. seek the kingdom of God.

I'm skipping a lot, of course. He says uh keep watch, don't fall into temptation. You know, have faith in God, store up treasures in heaven. These are commands of Him: don't be hypocrites. It has come to him.

Be on the alert. Abide in his love. Yeah, all kinds of stuff that Jesus says. You can go to Carm and find out what are the commandments of Jesus.

So if we love him, We will do what he says. It's just that simple. Okay. So my next follow up question on that would be, if that is the case, do you separate the law from the commandments? Depends on how you define both.

The law and the Old Testament deals with the 613. But a Jesus um Okay, so for example, in John 14:14, let me get to that. All right.

I mean not John 14, 14, but John 14, 1.

So he says this. Come on, get in there. Come on, John 14, there we go. Come on. And so in John 14, 1, Jesus says, Do not let your heart be troubled.

Believe in God, believe also in me.

So there's two commands in there. Don't let your heart be troubled. That's a command. And believe in God is another command, and believe in Him, that's another command.

So I could break that up into three and add it into that list I've got.

So. Believe in God is a command out of Exodus twenty. the Ten Commandments, you should have no other God before me, etcetera. etcetera.

So he's saying, believe in God. He's reiterating the truth of the commandments in the Old Testament there.

So, in that sense, He's fulfilling and expanding on the Old Testament law.

Now Jesus said in Matthew 22, 37, let me go there. He says uh You'd uh Because they asked him, What should you do to what the greatest laws, greatest commandment of the law? And Jesus says, Love God and love your neighbor. He says these on these the two commandments or of the law depends.

So he's summarizing there, but he doesn't say that I'm aware of You need to keep them. He doesn't say you shouldn't, but I'm looking for the specifics of he a command or an imperative that he was making. But when he quotes an imperative, he's just summarizing what's going on.

So we could say he, in that sense, is affirming. the uh the issue of the one um of um love god love your neighbor okay The reason I ask you if you separated the law from the commandment is that I've heard you several times say that we are no longer under the law, we're under grace. Right. So I'm trying to see how you can separate the two and say we are no longer under the law if the law and the commandments are one and the same, and God wrote the commandments with his own fingertips.

So I'm trying to say See, the phrase under the law means you're obligated to keep that law. And so when Jesus was made under the law, the old covenant was in effect. And so he was obligated to be circumcised. He was obligated to go through the and obey, observing festivals and various things. But the Old Testament law is abrogated.

with the death of Christ, Hebrews 8.13, Hebrews 9, 15 through 16.

So we are no longer under the requirements of the old law. to be saved or to be right with God. And so now we are under the new covenant because Christ fulfilled that Old Testament law. We died with him, Romans 6:6, crucified with him and died with him Romans 6:8. And Romans 7:4 says, He was died, is free from the law.

If we died with Christ, we're no longer obligated to keep that law, but we're alive in Christ, and he says, you know, just love, love God. Love your neighbor. These are the new commandments that he gives to us. Because these are the ones that are not abrogated by his death. They're the ones based on the character of God.

And they move through time and space.

Okay? You know, I said I love you, my brother. I want to read something else if you can give me. Sure. Uh one uh other minute because uh A thought is how would the world be today if we didn't have the law?

And I'm going to read Romans 7 and 12. Romans 7, verses 7 and 12. What should we say then? Is the law of sin? Third can they not?

On the contrary, I would not have known said except through the law. Or I would not have known Covetedness. And the list. The law had said You shall not covet. Verse 12.

Therefore, The law is holy. and the commandments holy and just and good, And God said, He is holy. And he has to be separated. From sin.

So I get confused when I hear you say that we're no longer under the law, because the law to me the Ten Commandments that God wrote with His Fingertips. Obviously. Haven't gone anywhere. They haven't vanished.

Well, see The law is good. It reveals the truth of who God is. It also reveals our sin. The law requires perfection, shows us our imperfection. The law requires holiness, shows us our lack of holiness.

It says in Galatians 3:24, the law has become a tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we be justified by faith. Those who kept the law in the Old Testament were seeking to be justified by faith and their law-keeping. They were under the law, but we've died with Christ, we're no longer under the law. were under the graceful great graceful wow graceful work of Christ He kept the law. Perfectly.

1 Peter 2:22. And so we are in him and we died with him. 1 Corinthians 15:22.

So The Old Testament people were under the law obligated to keep all of it. We are no longer under that law, not obligated to keep it. But the moral aspect of the law is good. We should keep those, and we are supposed to keep them, but keeping them doesn't keep us right with God. The blood of Christ does that.

So, are we still under the ten commandments that God wrote with his own fingertips? Yes, we are obligated to follow them, but following them does not keep us right with God or make us right with God. The Old Testament.

Okay, well let let me say one last verse and I'll come back to you and give somebody else just to talk.

Okay. Revelation chapter 22, verse 14 says, Blessed are they that do his commandments. That they may have the right to the tree of life. We're talking deep there. and may enter first.

the case of this city. That's talking about eternity. That's talking about the new heaven and the new earth. That verse says right there. Let me ask you.

Blessed are those who keep Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And you're supposed to. You're blessed if you do that. Are you saying you get to heaven by your faith in Christ and your keeping commandments?

Is that what you're saying? I'm saying that based on what we do that Jesus told us to do when he left here. will determine what rewards we get when we get to heaven, And n not everybody is going to get the same reward.

So let's clarify. I agree with you. That's what we do will affect our rewards. But here's the question: Are you saying, though, that our salvation? Not our rewards in heaven, but our salvation to get into heaven is dependent on our faith and our keeping commandments.

That's the question. What I say is Hebrews chapter 11, 6 says, It is impossible to please God without faith. That's what it says.

So I know. That we have to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, as the only way to eternal life. Yes, but you're not answering the question. You can't basically Just go out and Do whatever we want to after we become saved. And when you say we're no longer allowed to.

Hold on, hold on. Here's the question. I'll answer the question. Are you saying that we. get salvation by our faith and our keeping commandments.

It's either yes or no.

Now, you get salvation by accepting Jesus Christ and confessing your sins and asking him to forgive you of them. As your way to eternal life.

Well, I agree with that part because that is God. You're not answering a question, though. Are you saying that we are saved And go to heaven based on our faith in Christ, receiving Christ, and our keeping commandments. Both. Commit.

Co combo. Is that what your s are you saying that? I just Saying again. We are saved by accepting our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And what we do after we become safe will determine, number one, whether we will ever get there.

Or what rewards we will get when we get there. All right, look, I just gotta help you out here, okay?

Now, you're not understanding the true gospel at this point, because you said it'll determine that we get there.

So the Bible tells us that a man is justified. This is what I said. Can you repeat what I said? You said by uh it'll determine you getting there as well as your rewards. Getting there means self-defense.

Yeah, you did. You said those words. I said.

So say it again then. I said either or. Either or. I didn't put it in the public.

Okay, let's put them together. Here we go. Here we go. This is how it works. You are my brothers.

Here's how you're going to work. I want this to remain peaceful. It's okay, it's all good. Here's how it works: it's either it's a yes or it's a no answer. Are you serious?

I don't want to get into yes and no's, brother Slick, and I'm serious about that because I've seen you do that several times.

Okay. See, I'm not interested in anything but Basically, I'm pleasing God in all that I do. I don't want any self-gratification or anything. But Are you okay? Look, hold on.

Okay, we're done. We're done. We're done. You keep going.

So, I'm not going to hang up on you because we only have a half a minute left in the show.

Okay, so here's the thing: I hope he's still listening, okay? But he was just kind of going on and on. He wasn't answering the question. It's not a trick, it's just a statement to find out where a person is. It's either the case that you teach that you're saved by your works and your faith in works, or it's not the case that it's faith in works.

This is not a trick, it's just one or the other.

So, what I heard him say, and I was asking for his clarification, he wasn't giving it to me. Is he saying then that his attainment of heaven is by his faith and his commandments keeping? That's all I wanted to know. And I asked him three times, he wouldn't give me the answer.

So, if anybody says it's by faith and commandment keeping, then they don't know the true gospel. And they need to repent and come to the true faith. And that's all. And I was going to go over that, what that was according to scripture. Anyway, hey, we're out of time.

May the Lord bless you. And by his grace, we're back on your tomorrow. And Herb from Raleigh, tips on how to be a good deacon. Oh, maybe serve up a good answer. Maybe tomorrow.

Give me a call. Hey, folks, we're out of here. May the Lord bless you by his grace. We're back on here tomorrow. And we'll talk to you then.

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