Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! For answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. And you can give me an email.

That's easy to do also. Just send an email to info at carm.org, info at carm.org, and put the subject line, radio comments or radio question, and then we can get to you then or get your stuff to them.

Okay, so there you go. And I had a great meeting with the staff this morning on the CARM ministry about the new website that we're working on. We. We. The tech guys are working on.

And long story short, it's going to be good. There's a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that are just going to be awesome. and one of the highlight features of the new site is going to be the search feature. It's going to be incredibly accurate. It's going to be very fast, and it's going to employ, what's it called?

There's a phrase for it, regular language searchability and stuff like that. And other things coming as we gradually release more and more aspects to it over the next few months. but hopefully by the end of next month it'll be released and what we're going to do is just ask people to go in there and and just you know do stuff and then emails and say hey this is broken or this doesn't work right that's what always happens you know we've had a couple releases of new sites over the years because the site's about 30 years old there's been a few updates here and there and there's always an issue or two uh after we do that so not a big deal but that's just what it is all right all right all right why don't we just jump on the line and get to brandon from tennessee brandon welcome you are on the air hey how are you can you hear me i hear you fine man i hear you fine what do you got buddy all right i was wondering uh for a couple days i've been thinking about how we're born in sin uh and so forth all have fallen short of the glory of god And so I was wondering for aborted babies and those who die young and stuff like that, could it be possible that not all of them go to heaven?

Okay, now, when you say possible, you're talking about logical possibility.

So is it possible that there is a colony on Mars right now? Is it logically possible? We would say yes, not that it's true, but is it logically possible? because we can't find a contradiction in that, and we don't have any facts to deny its actuality. We can only conclude deductively and abductively that it's not the case.

So we say, is it possible? Yes, it's possible.

Now, is it possible babies go to hell? Yes, it's possible.

It's within the logical realm of possibility.

Now, here's the question. Do they? That's the question, and that we can't answer because the Bible doesn't tell us. If babies do go to hell, if any of them do, then it's what's proper. If they go to heaven, then that's what's proper because whatever God will do is what God will do, and he always does what is right, and therefore that question is not answered in Scripture.

It's not told to us in Scripture, and we can only just speculate as to what possibility might be. All right?

Okay, I see. I was just thinking about it because I saw Jeremiah 1.5, that God knows us before we are conceived. Yeah. And what that means is basically it's in a salvation relationship knowledge, and James 1.5 there, it's a very common verse used by some cults to show preexistence. and Mormons do that, but it's not what it means there.

So we get to that issue, well, what's exactly being stated by God when he says, I knew you? Does it mean you are preexisting? No, it doesn't, for other reasons. But it may be the issue of God's omniscience. It might be the issue of a faithful knowing, because God only knows believers.

He doesn't know unbelievers, and the word know there takes on a special meaning in its context. text.

So that's what that verse means. And I can see why you would think what you're doing or pondering what you're doing because of that particular verse.

Okay. All right.

Okay. Hope that helps or if that helps or not, you know, just trying to be more accurate.

Okay. Yeah. I guess it's like, we don't know who the elect are. Right. And a lot of people roll their eyes at this point.

We're talking about election because they're so tired of hearing this from a lot of people.

Well, that's what the Bible teaches and stuff. But now the question is, are babies elected or not?

So if someone were to ask me, what's my opinion? I would say all babies do die, go to heaven. Can I prove it? No. That's it.

I just assume that. Why do I assume it? Because that's what I want to believe and because the Bible is so unclear that I just say that's what I'm going to affirm and then I let it go with that. I remember David said he would see his son in the resurrection so that's one of the evidences that people use to say that people babies died they go to heaven. Another one is where Jesus says I suffer not the children that come to me for such is the kingdom of God and so they will say well see there you go they're innocent.

Well, no, they're not innocent because in Adam all die, Romans 5, 1 Corinthians 15, 22.

So they are by nature children of wrath, Ephesians 2, 3. But on the other hand, they haven't had any opportunity, we would assume that they have had no opportunity to receive the gospel. And when I say assume, because I don't know if they have or haven't. And the people say, well, how can a baby in the womb receive the gospel?

Well, I'm not going to say, This is when I get into logic again. I'll say, I'm not saying it is impossible. Because God speaks to the heart and the mind. And in Psalm 22, 9, you did make me believe while at my mother's breast.

So God grants people faith. Can you do that to a child? Because a child is a human made in his image, even a baby in the womb.

So all the complete faculties of humanity already are existing within that child. The biological structure is different than the essence of humanness, which can exist apart from the physical body, 2 Corinthians 12, 1-4. And so we understand that the soul is something that comes from God and that it doesn't mature, it just is, but it's housed in a body that matures. then we can ask the question, well, can God communicate to such a soul, even in the womb, and give the gospel?

Well, logically speaking, that's possible. Again, the question is, but is that the case? And so that's why we say we don't know, and all we can do is offer speculations at this point and stuff like that. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Yeah, I understand.

Okay. Yeah, it's a tough one. and when it's completely up for grabs, so to speak, in Scripture, then we just go through speculations. And I'm a little bit more bothersome to some people because I talk about logic and possibilities and counterfactuals and things like this. But this is just some of the stuff that we have to go through.

In fact, I'm actually analyzing something said by William Lane Craig, and some people are condemning him as a heretic. and I don't agree with how Craig's, what he said, what he's implying, but I understand what he says from a philosophical point of view. And so I'm defending his argument from a philosophical point of view, not based on the definitions that it seems to be he's using and implying and inserting into his argument, which he wasn't clear on. And so I get what he's saying. And it's related to A theory of time, not B theory of time, and the definitions of truth being relative to the correspondence theory.

And in this, then what he's saying is consistent. But the question is, is it true?

So you see, logical issues here are important when we discuss various things. And most Christians just aren't very able to do that because they don't have mental problems like yours truly here who love studying this stuff.

So there you go. Yeah, so if someone were to ask me the question that I asked, I could say the Bible isn't clear about it. It's up to the Lord. That's what I say for the short version.

Okay. The short version. I say we don't know, but God doesn't say. And I have sometimes all that. If any of them go to hell, then that's what's right.

If they all go to heaven, then that's what's right. It's up to God. That's it. Yeah. Okay.

Well, I think that's all I got for you.

well good question and thanks for putting up for my long-winded answer no thanks for the answer okay all right well all right i just want to say rest in peace don macarthur rest in peace and uh i'm sure he's enjoying his fellowship with the lord jesus christ that must be nice well god bless and thank you very much i don't like that it must be nice That is so true. God bless, brother. God bless. Bye. All right.

That was Brandon from Tennessee. Good question. Good question. Let's get to Chris from South Carolina. Chris, welcome.

You're on the air. This call will be recorded. Interesting.

Okay. That's fine. You can record it. Chris, are you there? Never had that happen before.

Chris. because Chris wants to talk about baptism, one of my favorite topics. Love talking about it. Chris? Matt, my question is the baptism.

Do you have to be baptized in water to be saved? No. No, you do not.

Okay. That's the answer. Where is that in the Bible? That we're justified by faith. We're having therefore been justified by faith, Romans 5.1.

We maintain that man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. That's Romans 3.28. The works of the law are summed up in the issues of loving God and loving your neighbor. Also, Paul says in Romans 4.5, to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

So we're justified by faith because the blood of Christ is what justifies us, Romans 5.9.

So we're justified, and justification is concomitant with salvation.

So when you believe you justified which means that baptism doesn justify you because you already saved So it not necessary for salvation okay And what about through the Holy Spirit being baptized through the Holy Spirit That's different. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the movement of the Holy Spirit upon you. And it's spoken about in Acts chapter 2. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the movement of the Spirit of God upon you in order to move in the charismatic gifts per Acts 2 and Acts 10. And so that baptism is like an extra empowering movement of the spirit.

It doesn't mean you don't have the spirit because he's already indwelling the true believers.

Okay. Okay. And what about when people talk about the fire came upon them and they were speaking? Yeah, that's Acts 2. and that is the fulfillment of prophecy in Joel 2, 28 and 29, where it says the Holy Spirit will be poured out.

So the Holy Spirit is poured forth, and I have a lot of stuff on that in Scripture. In fact, let me see, I can go to my notes. We are not even, let's see, pouring, where is that? I think I'll just do this, this way. I've got 58 responses, there we go.

So the Holy Spirit is poured out, Isaiah 32, 15. Isaiah 44.3 Ezekiel 39.29 Joel 2.28 Acts 2.17 Acts 2.13 Acts 2.33 Acts 10.45 Titus 3.5-6 These are all references where it talks about the Spirit being poured. That's what's significant. And so that's the same. That's how the Holy Spirit arrives upon us.

By being poured. Why is that significant? Because I'll talk about it after the break.

So hold on buddy. We've got a break. Hey folks, be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We'll get to the pouring of the Spirit upon us.

Be right back. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show.

If you want to give me a call, it is easy. Just dial 877-207-2276. Let's get back on the air with Chris. Chris, are you still there? Yes, sir.

All right, so in my opinion, this is my opinion, I think a lot of churches and pastors miss the significance. We've got a lot of noise back around. Have you got your window open or something? because you've got a lot of noise. I'm just going down the road.

I'm apologizing. I'll turn the volume down. All right.

That's better.

So I think a lot of pastors and such are missing some areas of the discussion of baptism that I think is important. We should get baptized. But when you do a serious study on baptism as it relates to the work of the Spirit, you'll find all kinds of interesting things.

So, nevertheless, having said that, the Spirit is poured forth upon us. This is important because in Acts 1-5, I'm going to put you on hold because of the noise, and I'll come back to you in a second. You can still hear it. Hold on. There we go.

So as it says in Acts 1-5, it says, Jesus says, for John baptized with water, you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit. This means the Holy Spirit is poured on you and you will be empowered by what the Holy Spirit will do. And this was prophesied by Jesus in Acts 1.5 and fulfilled in Acts 2 at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon people. This is very specific and we can see exactly what is meant because he says in Acts 1.8, when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, poured out on you. All right.

So if the word baptism here means immersion, then we have a problem because John baptized with water, but you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit. And so if it says John immersed with water, you'll be baptized with the Spirit. The word baptism has to mean the pouring forth upon you. That's what it has to mean biblically.

So people will say baptism automatically means immersion. No, it doesn't. It does not. It can maybe, but it doesn't necessitate that. That's just a common mistake a lot of people make.

So the idea here is to show this. The Father elects, the Son redeems, the Holy Spirit sanctifies. The sanctification that the Holy Spirit does, in part, is to equip us with the giftings for our walk with God in our sanctification, which means we set apart for holy use. not only in our intention to reduce the sin practice in our lives because we're redeemed, but also to move forward with the expansion of the kingdom of God because we've been equipped with the charismatic movement gifts at that time when needed in order to glorify God and expand the issue of the kingdom. That's what I firmly believe.

That's my position on that.

So there you go. You're back on, Chris. What do you think of all that?

Well, some people mentioned that you have to have, like, able to speak in tongues and all that when you're baptized too. No, that's an improper inference. And I think it might be what's called the logical fallacy called the fallacy of composition.

So the fallacy of composition is this. The engine of the car is blue, therefore the entire car is blue. It's saying what's true of the part is true of the whole. That's called the fallacy of composition. It's a logical error.

What they see is when the gift of the Holy Spirit is moved upon people, they speak with tongues. It doesn't say everybody all the time speaks in tongues. They might see it being a regular practice, but it doesn't mean that all people are speaking in tongues. And this is particularly the case when we go to, I think it's 1 Corinthians 12, where it says the Spirit gives, excuse me, He gives the gifts to whom He wills. He distributes these gifts among people.

And so, and then it says, not all speak with tongues, not all, let's see, I'm trying to find, yeah, here we go. This is 1 Corinthians 12, 11. But the one in the same spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as he wills.

Now, before that, because that was 1 Corinthians 12, 11, but let's go to verse 8, and I'll read a little context. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the spirit, to another the word of knowledge according to the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another, gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another, the effecting of miracles, to another, prophecy, to another, the distinguishing of spirits, to another, various kinds of tongues, and to another, the interpretation of tongues.

So it says different people have these things.

So if you're in a group of people, say there's 100 people and the Holy Spirit moves upon them, and some people start speaking in tongues, well, they're going to say, see, they're speaking with tongues, but then the Holy Spirit's there. Technically, that's true, but it's not, make the fallacy of composition that, well, it means everybody was all the time. No, it doesn't. Because the Spirit distinguishes He distinguishes which person gets which gifts.

Alright?

Okay, so you don't have to speak in tongues to be saved at all. No, you do not.

That's right. You must believe and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. We're not saved by faith and speaking in tongues, or faith and being baptized. No faith and anything. It's faith in God because God grants that we have that faith, Philippians 1.29, so it comes from him.

And that faith is in Christ, John 6.29, is the work of God. Therefore, that faith is what justifies us before God, Romans 4.5. That's it. But we manifest various gifts because of the work of the Spirit within us. And these people who say you've got to speak in tongues to be saved and you've got to be baptized to be saved, I would like to debate them publicly and trash their filthy and stupid and wrong and sinful theological perspective that puts people in bondage.

Okay?

Okay. All right.

Thank you very much. You're welcome. All right.

Sounds good. And I am serious. This kind of stuff is antichrist theology. You must get baptized in order to have your sins all forgiven. No, you don't.

Because that would then say that, no, we were justified by faith, but then all our sins were forgiven, and then we get baptized, oh, they're all forgiven again? It doesn't make any sense. Or it's like saying you have to get baptized to be saved because you're not really saved until you get baptized, even though you're a true believer and you're justified by faith before God. The stupidity of these positions is ridiculous. They put bondage on people, put weights around their necks, dragging them down into a sea of legalism, drowning them in their own inability to comply with the law that they are obligated to do and fulfill according to the likes and the accusations and the machinations of other who put these bondages upon them.

They need to repent. They need to stop. We're justified by faith alone in Christ alone, not by faith in baptism, not by faith in communion, not by faith in doing good, and not by faith in not doing bad. We don't keep ourselves right with the infinitely holy God by our goodness. And we are not saved by faith in a ceremony, whether it be circumcision or baptism.

Well, baptism is a work of God. It never says that in scripture. And people will often twist God's word and make it say what it doesn't say. It's the work of God.

So we're doing his work, so it's okay. That's in the book of second hysterectomy. It's just not there. And so they need to stop teaching false doctrine. This is the simplicity.

Let me preach the gospel here a little bit, okay? The gospel is really simple. The gospel is the euangelia. It is the good news, the euangelia. The good news is that we do not have to do anything under the law in order to be saved or keep ourselves right with God.

Jesus did everything. That's what it is. And we get back, there's nobody calling. I'm going to talk more about what the gospel is and the aspects of the gospel that few people get into. We'll be right back after these messages.

Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show.

If you want to give me a call, it's easy. 877-207-2276. Let me just say that what I want to do here is preach the gospel a little bit and explain a few things, because there might be a lot of people out there listening who think they're saved and are not saved. They might think that they're on the right track because they went up front and just received Christ, and that formula means that they're saved. Not necessarily.

I'm not saying they're not saved. I'm just saying you better be careful. And the Bible says that we are to examine ourselves to see that we're in the faith.

So let me explain The gospel I do something different I do law gospel and cost Law gospel and cost The trinity of what I believe are the necessary elements of evangelism of conveying what the truth is. The law, the gospel, and the cost. The law is you shall not lie, shall not steal. But if you have lied and you have steal, if you have stolen, then you are guilty before God, and you've broken the law, And the wages of sin is death, breaking the law of God, 1 John 3, 4. That's breaking the law.

But the wages of that sin, that breaking the law, is death.

So therefore, there's a judgment upon you. All right.

So how do you get out from that?

Well, this is the gospel, the euangelia, the good news, 1 Corinthians 15, 1 through 4. Jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead. He died for our sins, which means he made a legal payment on the cross and canceled the sin debt at the cross, Colossians 2, 14. He did everything necessary under the law, fulfilled the law perfectly, and never sinned, 1 Peter 2.22. And he bore our sin in his body on the cross and died with him.

And that's 1 Peter 2.24. All right, so the law shows us what we're guilty of. The gospel shows us how to escape that guilt. And the only way to escape that guilt is by faith, not by faith and baptism, not by faith in church attendance, not by faith in communion, not by faith in anything, but faith alone and God alone, because faith is only as good as who you put it in. And if you want to say that you're going to put your faith in God alone, then your faith is valuable.

If you're to put your faith in God and the baptism I underwent, the communion supper I go through, the issue of praying to Mary, whatever it might be, my church membership, then what you're doing is you're not trusting in God alone. If you're not trusting in God alone, then you're not justified by faith alone in Christ alone, but by what you do in your relationship with him, which means that you're rejecting the sufficiency of the cross. You have to be justified before God by faith alone in Christ alone, not by faith in anything, not by faith in your sincerity, not by faith in your ability to do anything good or keep yourself right. You are not made right before God by your cooperation, by your willingness, by your ability, by your goodness, by your faithfulness, by your love, by your lack of doing bad, and your ability to do good. If any of you think that's the case, that it's your faith in God, and, yeah, you've been sincere, you've been good, you've been doing this stuff, then you've got a false gospel.

You may not be a true Christian. You've got to understand that everything that we do is touched by sin. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Matthew 12, 34, and in the heart, there's wickedness. Jeremiah 17, 9, the heart is desperately wicked, deceitful, no man can trust it.

We've got to be careful not to even put any trust in our own sincerity, our own ability, our own anything, because it's just a bad place to go. When it comes to something as critical as the gospel, we must understand we must proclaim that what it is is faith in the work of jesus god in flesh died on the cross rose from the dead that's it but you better know something if you dare to trust in christ and you dare to say lord i don't care where you send me i don't care what you do with me just do with me as you desire because you are the king you are the sovereign lord and i lean on you. I dive into the truth and the heart of your love. I rest completely in what you have done. I put my faith completely and totally in that cross and your sacrifice and nothing else.

I trust in you. If you're willing to do that, then you better know something else. You better be willing to count the cost. If you're not willing to count the cost, then don't waste your time appealing to Christ because you will just waste your time. Yeah, I'll try Jesus if it's convenient for me.

I'll try Jesus and give him a try for a while, see if my life gets better. If it gets worse, obviously he failed.

So therefore, I'm not going to trust him. Don't waste your time trying to become a Christian if you think that Jesus is going to make your life just a lot better and everything. Oh, it'd be so wonderful. No, not the case.

Sometimes it gets more difficult. Let me give you some scripture, what Jesus says. Luke 14, 27 to 30, whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? Are you calculating the cost of what it means to follow Jesus?

You have to do that. Jesus says in Luke 14, 33, so then none of you can be my disciple who does not give up all that he owns.

Well, what does that mean? Sell your house and your car and give it away? Maybe if God calls you to do it. But what he calls here is what he's meaning is that everything you own belongs to him. And if he calls you to use it for his glory, then that's what needs to happen.

You may even lose your life over this issue. You may even lose your job over it. I certainly have. I've lost, I could get into details. I've had consequences of my faith that cost me dearly.

Another topic, another time. This is what Matthew 10, 37 through 39 says, for the one who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me. This means relationships are second to your relationship with Christ. It means your husband, your wife, your family, your friends, your co-workers. It means all of them are outside the ultimate loyalty that you have to give to Christ alone.

This doesn't mean Christ is mean. It doesn't mean that he doesn't want you to love your spouse and take care of your spouse and provide and be friendly and loving. It doesn't mean that. It means that you have to understand that he's the supreme, the supreme being, the supreme king. He's the final authority, and he should be that in your heart.

That's how it should be. He has the throne in, he sits on the throne in your heart. Not your wife, not your husband, not your work. That's what he's saying. He says, the one who does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

The cross is a place of self-sacrifice. The cross is a place of death. You know, for example, I know that there are people out there whose spouses are not well, and you have to take care of them. This is a quick example. It's quite common.

And the issue is then you have to take up your cross and follow after Jesus, because what would Jesus do? Would he be loving and patient and kind? Yes. How about work? There are people at work who will lie to get by, who will fudge numbers.

to get by so they don't lose their job. You can't do that. I remember once I had a job, and the boss told him I was working late with him one night, and he said, if anybody calls, tell them I'm not here. And I said to him immediately, I can't say that because it's not true. What I can say is, you're not available, but I won't say you're not here if you're here.

It's a lie. I won't do that. I told him flat out. And he said, wow, okay.

Well, I guess that works then. You're just not available. because it's true he wouldn't be available to take a call. He doesn't want to. That's an availability issue.

It's on him. And I said things like this, and I meant things like this. And in Philippians 3, 7-8, but whatever things were gained to me, these things I have counted as loss because of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. Nothing should get in your way of relationship with Christ.

Now, it's easier said than done. Another talk about sanctification. But the point I'm trying to make here is that we're all guilty because the law reveals sin to us. And when we are sinners, we recognize that we need a way out of the judgment coming to us. That's the cross.

But we need to understand that if we are to trust in Christ, it may cost us. And ladies and gentlemen, I can tell you, it has cost me a great deal. I'm not just saying the words. I've lived it. you have to be willing to follow Jesus and count the cost.

And if you're not willing to follow Christ and count the cost, then you're not worthy of him. Don't give him a try. And if you think you're a Christian, and you're at work or in your relationships, and you're lying to get by, are you counting the cost? Are you compromising things and abiding in sin while you're claiming to be a Christian following the Lord Jesus? Such hypocrisy has no place in a Christian's life.

Now, it's not to say that we don't have to be wise in our decisions and how we are with people and circumstances. That's another topic altogether. But we cannot abide in sin willingly and say, well, God will understand. No, he won't understand that you are just in sin and rebellion, using the grace of God to do things that are unholy and unrighteous. We can't do that.

So you see, we don't want you either. We don't want you to be like Lot's wife. because when Lot was called out of Sodom and Gomorrah, God says, don't look back to your old ways of life. Don't consider those things and yearn after them. And she looked back towards them and boom, became a pillar of salt.

That's Genesis 19, 26. In Luke 17, 32-33, remember Lot's wife. Whoever strives to save his life will use it. Whoever loses his life will keep it. He says, remember, don't look back to the old ways and seek and live for them.

Because if you have become a Christian, it means you've died with Christ. Romans 6.8 means you're crucified with Christ. Romans 6.6, it means you made a new creature. 2 Corinthians 5.17 You see, you're not your own anymore. You're saved by grace, kept by grace, and you walk forward by grace, trusting in God beyond your ability to understand.

That's what it means to live, to be a true Christian. We'll be right back after these messages. Give me a call at 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. it's matt slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276 here's matt slick all right buddy welcome back to the show hope you're enjoying it um so i'm trying to think what this i'm trying to decide what to teach on a little bit here because uh there's nobody calling right now that often happens on a Friday.

And so what I was thinking about doing was this. I think I'm going to teach on baptism a little bit. And if you don't mind bearing with me just a little bit, I think I'll just go over stuff. And you can listen and you can think about this. I know a lot of people think that baptism is necessary for salvation.

It's not. You should get baptized, but it's a covenant sign, but that's another topic.

So you can be baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire. It can't mean immersion. Baptism can mean washing of hands in Mark 7.4. Baptism can mean experiencing tribulation, Mark 10.38-39. Baptism can mean ceremonially washed, Luke 11.38.

They were baptized into Moses on dry ground, 1 Corinthians 10, 1 through 2. You're baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit. That's 1 Corinthians 12, 13.

Now check this out. You're baptized with water.

Well, I did a study and I wanted to find a verb with object, anointed with oil.

So they washed them with water Exodus 29 at the door of the tent So they were washed with water the priests were but it doesn mean that they were immersed in water but that water was applied to them This is the Old Testament context. When they enter the tent of meeting, they shall wash with water, so that they will not die. This is Exodus 30.20. When they enter in, they're both washed with water. Did they strip all their clothes off and get into a vat of water?

No. it says then you shall bring Aaron and his son to the doorway of the tent of meeting and wash them with water Exodus 29.4 so there wasn't a tub there at a doorway it doesn't make any sense so the idea here is that washing with water in the Old Testament in the context is an application of water to the person in 2nd chronicles 28 15 people are anointed with oil notice the oil is applied to the people and there's lots of verses like this where uh uh let's see anoint yourself with oil micah 6 15 you know and anointed with him or anointed him with oil mark 6 13 and uh you are anointed with oil mark six yeah i got all these verses let's see go in some more uh let's see uh yeah in james 5 14 they're to pray over him anointing him with oil you are cleansed with blood this is hebrews 9 22 one month also say all things were cleansed with blood filled with the holy spirit that's exodus 31 3 i've i have filled him with the spirit of god in wisdom there's other verb with object occurrences. Leviticus 8, 7, girded with a sash. Let's see, Numbers 21, 24, struck with the edge of the sword. And I got a lot more.

These things are where we see the application or the applying of something to something else. It's a very general way of saying it. You're anointed with oil, the oil's applied to you. You're anointed with blood, the blood's applied to you. You're struck with the sword, the sword applied to you, killed with the sword, 2 Samuel 12, 9, strike him with the rod, the rod is put upon you, baptized with water.

All of a sudden, now, a lot of people say, no, that means you're immersed in water. And it's just inconsistent with the biblical model of how it uses the verb and with and in the object.

So I did this study, and I'm like, oh my goodness, how come I've never heard this before? Maybe because my job is just to, what does it say? I'm not loyal to a denomination. I'm not stuck in a denominational thing where I have to teach certain something. What if I was in a denomination where baptism has to mean immersion and I'm studying this stuff going, you know what, if I start preaching this, I could lose my job.

I could be kicked out of the whole denomination. What about my wife and my kids? Maybe I should keep it under wraps. That could happen. I'm sure pastors are faced with this kind of a thing.

Well, I don't have to do that. I just, see what I say, write it on the website. You don't like it, don't believe it. If you like it, then check it with Scripture. See, that's what I do.

So these are the kinds of things I'm looking at, right?

Okay, now, so there's that. And let's see, let me get down over here. Let's get down over here. Baptized with water, we did that.

now let me do this here we go so there's oh I'll do that let's get over to here I think we'll do this there's so many things to talk about already got that going that's right there's the issue of the mathematics which I've done before and it's really important because for example 3,000 were baptized in Acts chapter 2 if all 12 disciples were baptizing for 8 hours all 3,000 people it would require roughly one baptism every two minutes. That's if 12 disciples were baptizing 3,000 people for eight hours. Just use those as references. That's how it was.

So in the upper room, the baptism was occurring in the upper room. You keep with 3,000 people in the upper room.

So you're not going to go down into the foyer in the area of the city where the water, spring water is out of a fountain and baptize 3,000 people, you'll make the water filthy for one thing.

So this is a problem because water weighs 8.3 pounds per gallon and roughly it needs about 80 gallons to baptize a single person and that's minimal amount of water. That's 664 pounds of water. 600 pounds of water, you're going to lug it up stairs into the upper room and have Baptized free people? I mean, 3,000?

Well, 600 pounds of water up in the upper room to lug it up by pots. It's going to take a half hour to an hour if 10 or 20 people are helping out with pots. And then what? They've got it in one container. They can't do it there.

It doesn't make any sense. So now they've got to go to the Jordan River.

Okay?

Well, the Jordan River is typically between 50 to 85 degrees of water. The average is around 75 degrees. and you can become hypothermic in that level of water in about two to four hours, depending on the person and the situation.

So if the disciples are standing waist deep in water for eight hours, they can become hypothermic. I did research on this. And if they're dipping people down under the water, then they come up heavier because of the water on the clothing. That means they're dipping people underwater, raising them up. I think it's every two minutes, 12 disciples are doing it, 3,000, for eight hours, their backs are going to give out.

And hypothermic issues.

So that means, okay, forget that. That means they weren't out to their waists. They were up to, say, their thighs.

Well, then you've got to put the person way down under the water, lift them way up. It's even worse. But if they're not going to be able to do that kind of a thing, then they have to do it with higher water level. I remember when I was baptized. Baptized my wife and I went out to Chuck Smith with the church, Calvary Chapel, out at the ocean in Southern California.

That's not bad water. I used to go surfing and body surfing and do all that kind of stuff out there. And you had to wear a spring suit because the water would be 70 degrees, 65 degrees. You had to wear what was called a spring suit because it's a short kind of a wetsuit just to stay out in the water for that long. And I remember Chuck Smith was wearing a wetsuit out there.

There were 300 people he wanted to get baptized. He had to wear a web suit out there in Southern California ocean water because he's going to be out there for hours. That's just to keep himself warm.

So to say that they're all immersed, the 3,000, is problematic logistically. And then there's this, Mark 1, 5. All the country of Judea was going out to John the Baptist, and all the people of Jerusalem were being baptized by him.

Now, this is an exaggeration. All of them were going out. That means a lot of people.

Well, I did some math. Population estimates for Judea and Jerusalem at the time were 1,940,000 people. And I got statistics from the Bible where it gives the census out of 1 Chronicles and 2 Samuel.

So we've got some real estimates, but nevertheless.

So how long was John the Baptist preaching? Low to high estimates is 3 to 30 months.

So let's just do an average. These are just numbers for illustration purposes, that's all.

So that would mean then that he was baptizing for 14 months.

Well, what does it mean when all of Judea and all of Jerusalem was going out there? It means a lot of people. Every individual? Of course not. Let's just say it was 5% of the population.

It means 1 in 20 people, which is a large number of people.

So how would that work out logistically? if it was just John the Baptist, not saying it was, but if it was just him, well, then that would be 14 months times 30 days or 420 days. Times eight hours is 3,360 hours.

So if three of John's disciples are baptizing, eight hours a day for 30 months, 14 months, that'd be one every six minutes. Eight hours a day, 30 days a month. Eight hours a day. if they're immersing them in water out in the Jordan. Hypothermia, they're not going to be able to do it.

If six were doing it, one every 12 minutes. If 12 were doing it, one every 25 minutes.

Now, that's more doable. We don't know how many of John's disciples there were, but we don't get the impression there were a lot who were out in the desert with them or over by the Jordan.

So we just don't know. But I'm just saying, put numbers on this, and you start going, uh-huh. There's some logistical issues here.

so that's just at 5% and of course the numbers get worse if larger numbers are being proposed so at 5% it's one every two minutes if John alone was baptizing he had to do one every two minutes yeah one every two minutes I think it is I'm going to check my numbers here anyway so the thing is one a minute I think for John alone Anyway, it's just not logistically possible.

So what was going on? How were they baptizing so many people? If, biblically speaking, baptism deals with the application of water to a person, then you're saved. I mean, then the numbers don't become problematic.

Now, I know what I'm doing is losing the interest of a lot of people. I know that what I'm saying is not popular. I know what I'm saying is not, you know, for a lot of people to say, no, I can't accept that because I know my Baptist tradition in 1689 confession is just true.

Well, maybe it is. Maybe I'm wrong. That's okay. What I'm offering you is information to challenge you because isn't the ultimate goal to believe what God's word says, not what your denomination teaches? What is the reality of this issue of baptism?

I can teach on this quite a bit. There's a lot more about baptism here. I've taught on it and defended it so many times, so many different ways. What does it mean to be baptized in the name of Jesus? What's the purpose and significance of the Trinitarian baptism as it relates to the baptism of John the Baptist?

Why the Trinitarian formula? What does baptism accomplish? What does it represent? How does it relate to circumcision? What does it mean to be baptized into?

All these phrases and all these things that the issue of baptism touches in all of its areas. I have never heard in 45 years I've never heard a teaching series on baptism that goes into all of this stuff. I've never heard it a single once. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I haven't heard it.

What I'm trying to do is get people to think, to be challenged, and even disagree. But if they look in the Word of God and say, I'm going to check this out. I can't trust a guy named Slick. I'm checking it out for myself. Then that is good.

That's what I want. Hey folks, there's the music, which means I've got to get out of here. And by God's grace, we're back on the air Monday, Lord willing. I'm going to try a new video send on Monday. We'll see how that goes.

So may the Lord bless you. Have a great weekend, everybody. And by God's grace, we'll talk to you next week. See you. Bye.

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