Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carn.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live. Hope you're all having a good time listening. If you want, you can give me a call.

The number is 877-207-2276. You can also, if you are so inclined, you can send me an email. That is easy to do. Just There we go. Just send it to info at carm.org.

Info at carm.org. And we can get to it, you know, get to the emails. All right, no big deal. There you go. All right.

Now, what I'm going to do is I think we'll just get to Alan from Virginia. Alan, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, how's it going? It's going, man.

It's going. How are you doing? Doing all right.

Okay.

So what do you got? What's up?

So Um Is there a difference between a mediator and an intercessor, and which is Jesus? He's both. He's a mediator and an intercessor. And in Hebrews 6:25, 7, 20, or 6, 27, 25, he lives forever to intercede for us. That's between the Father.

But he's also a mediator of a new covenant. But he's an intercessor according to our sins and judgment.

So he mediates the intercession work.

Okay.

Okay.

How how would you define a mediator and an intercessor? Because I don't quite understand the terms.

Well, uh, oh, that's a good question. I've never been asked that. Uh, So, what would be the difference between them biblically?

Well, like I just said, The mediator is the mediator of a new covenant, but the intercessor, I'll just go over it again, he's the one who. is standing between us and God to intercede on our behalf in order to uh to appease God's wrath. By the offering and the intercessory work that he does on behalf of the cross. Yeah. Oh.

Is it one of those so with intercession, is that uh substitution kind of thing?

So it's like instead of the person, you are the one doing the action kind of thing? Yeah, a go he's a mediator is like someone who's a go-between and can Convey information or things between. That's what he's the mediator of the new covenant. But An intercessor, in the case that we're talking about Christ, is the one who. Pleads, intercedes, works on our behalf before the Father.

Okay.

You bought help. All right.

Yeah. Would you say that asking someone else to pray for me? Um Would be asking them to be an intercessor or mediator to speak to God for me. That's a good question, but uh It's he's in one sense, because these terms are are broad. But he's an intercessor and a mediator in a different sense.

That if you ask someone to pray for you, you're asking them just to intercede, to get in there and pray in your behalf.

Okay, but we're not to ask dead people to do that, that's forbidden. We can only do it with the people who are alive and next to us, okay? Gotcha.

So 'cause you're 'cause you're talking about the thing with Roman Catholicism with Mary, right? Yeah, and the saints and their idolatrous practices. In Deuteronomy 18:10 through 12, it says, Do not conjure up spirits, do not go after mediums, do not seek the dead. Don't it says, Don't do these things. And that's exactly what they are doing.

When they pray to Mary, they pray to the saints. They're praying against scripture, and they're opening themselves up to demonic deception.

So that's what they're saying. And they say, Well, they're alive, aren't they?

Well, yeah, but the Bible talks about those who have died. Don't go seeking them. It says, Don't do it.

So, you know.

Okay.

That's a good question. Oh, thank you. Uh would you say that If I would you say that asking for someone to pray for me.

So they would be a I guess an intercessor mediator in that case. um mean that I don't have faith in my prayer to God. that he would like you know what I mean. No, you know, I can ask my wife to pray for me about something, and I pray for my wife each night. Before she goes to bed, I pray for her and ask God to heal, and we pray for our children, pray for the ministry.

And so I'm just lifting her up, and we pray for our children.

So we're interceding in that broad sense of trying to. sway the hand of God to save someone.

So that's what we're trying to do. And that's okay. We want God to save people, so that's what we hope we can get him to do, you know. And that gets him this lot of doctrinal and stuff, but I'll get all that now. And so that's what we're trying to do.

Okay.

My my kind of confusion comes from Wh why would I ask someone to pray? Me when I can just pray if I'm able to pray myself, why would I just pray to God and have faith in that? Why don't you, then? I don't see any problem with that.

Well, I'm just asking, because I'm trying to. I'm trying to uh reform my mindset in different ways and um They well I looked at a uh Protestant and Catholic debate. Um About intercession and whatnot, it got me thinking about. Or should I really be asking someone to pray for me? Is that me saying that I don't have faith that me directly praying to God.

Will work? Do I need to have someone to be on my behalf and have faith in them rather than God?

Well, don't forget the Bible says there's many areas where it says pray for us, you know, like in 1 Thessalonians 5:25. Paul said, brethren, pray for us. And he says in Romans 15, 30, I urge you, brother, Mother Lord God, strive together with me in your prayers to God for me.

So what we're doing in this is asking God, we're asking people to share in our burden. Galatians 6, 2 talks about sharing one another's burdens.

So if you have an issue, I can pray for you and vice versa. It's an increase of fellowship between us, and it's also a mutual development of faith in God because we're both trusting God. And your prayers, if you're a true Christian, my prayers, if I'm a true Christian, they influence God. They have much to do with God's will. And James 5, 16, 17.

So we can do that. And we should. But it's also, Jesus says, ask me anything in my name, and I will do it, John 14:14. And then the Bible says in James 5:16, confess your sins one another and pray for one another so that you could be healed.

So we're commanded to pray for one another, but we are not commanded to seek the dead. We are committed to do the contrary. And the reason is because when you do that, demonic spirits can imitate Aunt Martha and Uncle Bob. and they can from they are spirits. And so you can get deceived, okay?

Makes sense. Can you go into detail about what he said, Mark 15? Is that what it was with Jesus? Praying his name. Oh, in John 14:14, Jesus says, Ask me anything in my name, and I will do it.

Can you go into detail how that works? Because like say if I asked God or I asked Jesus to not be Jesus in his name, I don't think he would do it. Can you go into the context of what he's exactly saying? Yeah, if you ask me anything in my name, in my name means by the authority of Christ.

So in Acts 4:7, it says they're asking people, what authority, what name are you doing these miracles in the name of Jesus?

So what he's saying is you're talking to Jesus because of Jesus. Through Jesus. He's the one who provides everything that we need. And so, what we do is we talk to him, we seek him, we pray to him because he's God in flesh. He's also our mediator and our intercessor between us and the the Father, but also He's the one who makes it possible for us to come to Him.

He's taken an interesting role as the one to whom we can be prayed to, but he's also a mediator of our prayers to him as well, because he's cleansed us by his blood. You know, first John 1, 7 through 9.

So, when we ask him in his name, you know, it's not like a formula. It's have to say, in his name. Because when he said, How do we pray? You know, our Father who are in heaven, I don't think he said, in the name of. I think I'm going to go check to make sure because I've quoted it so many thousands of times after a while, you don't even think about it anymore.

So, Mark. I mean Matthew 6. Twelve. Yeah, and he doesn't conclude in his name. He just says, you know, if you don't forgive others, you'll be forgiven.

So. Actually, yours are kingdom. Yeah, okay.

So, in the name of, means you're appealing to the power, the work. and the person of Jesus himself.

So, this is what you're doing. And when I pray, I'm not saying my prayer is the right way to pray for all people or whatever. I always pray to Christ, and I say, you know, in Jesus' name, I'm asking. And if I'm praying to Jesus, in your name, Lord, I'm asking these things. And then I just say amen.

Sometimes I say amen three times. I don't know why, but it's just a thing I like doing. And that's it.

So I can seek my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, through whom we're called, and God calls us into fellowship with Him. with Jesus. And that's 1 Corinthians 1:9.

So you can talk to him, you can pray to him, and you can ask him. And and you depend on him.

Okay.

Sounds good. I appreciate it, Matt. Thank you. All right.

Sounds good. Okay, buddy. God bless.

Okay.

All right.

Want to give me a call? All you got to do is dial 877-2072276. Let's get to Jermaine from California. Jermaine, welcome. You're on the air.

Mm-hmm. Hey man, I am want to ask you about the uh famous quote about the It being harder for a rich man to get into heaven, or highway, being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Versus a rich man going to heaven. And I hear that quote often. A lot of people quote that scripture, but.

I I also feel like I hear it quoted out of context. as an unfair indictment on anyone with money. Can you give some clarity on what that exactly was trying to say? Yeah, there's nothing wrong with having money. You just want to use it for God's glory.

God. In the Old Testament, blessed people with riches, David and Solomon, etc., and Abraham.

So he wouldn't be inconsistent. What Jesus is simply saying that it's difficult for rich people to enter the kingdom of God because they're trusting in their riches rather than God. That's all that's going on. It's difficult. It doesn't say it's impossible.

Says it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. He's using hyperbole, he's using exaggeration to make the point. That's all. And that's all it is. And to me, that's pretty clear.

I have a good friend, a wonderful brother, and the Lord, love him. But he always seems to pull up someone like an Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. And use that scripture, and I um, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong here. I said, hey, you know. As Americans, that scripture applies to us because we're one of the richest countries in the world.

And I'm like, you know, dude, you you have two cars in a house. You're You're considered very wealthy. compared to most of the world.

So we we should also keep a warning in that scripture for ourselves versus trying to pull out the very the mega rich and what we think of as well. Right. And riches are relative to your own experience, and you think you're okay.

Now, there might be a person who has $2 million in the bank account, and he might not think he's rich.

So now we've got a problem of who's the rich one, who is and isn't.

So and uh I think uh Let's see. It's in Acts 16. 14, that's right. A woman named Lydia from the city of Thyra Tyra, a seller of purple fabrics, a worship of God. God opened her heart.

And she and all her household, when they were baptized, they were baptized.

So she had a business of selling purple fabrics, and purple fabrics was for royalty.

So she was well off. She was able to do this kind of a thing.

So she wasn't condemned for having her riches there.

Okay.

So There you go, buddy. And I know God has used rich people before, so it's a fantastic. I have a couple of guys who are very well off who support Carm. If it wasn't for them, Carm would go under. financially.

We just, I'll talk about that when we get back. Hold on. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. Be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright everyone, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Jermaine. Jermaine, are you still still there, buddy?

Well, yes, I am.

Okay.

Yeah, it's a good s kind of a segue. You know, I asked for support every now and then. But we have let's just say, if it wasn't for two individuals in the past year or two, three, two about three years, We would not have not be able to support the missionaries, would not be able to do much. We had just enough to pay my salary so I could do this full-time, and that's about it. And so we'd have to get rid of the missionaries all over the place and do o other projects.

We just wouldn't know to do it.

So we we have uh one guy is exceedingly rich and the other guy is just well, very well off. And uh they have helped. And that's it.

So they're rich, they both love the Lord. They're good Christians, and I appreciate them as long as God uses them to provide. And if he provides through them, great. If he doesn't, then I'm not worried about it because God will provide some other way. That's just how God works.

But it's just an example. I know two rich guys, one really rich guy, and he loves the Lord and praise God for him doing this. He supports ministries, both of them do.

So, there's nothing wrong with being rich. Just use it for the glory of God, among other things, and that's it. There you go. All right.

Uh Well, yeah, I I do think I I've been in the situation years ago where I was a little more ignorant, but finances, I would also misuse this quote but it really was a justification of my poor poor stewardship. And when I matured, I learned that, hey, Well, God had plenty of rich people who was using to Learn to be a good steward of what you're blessed with. Yep. And be a good steward. Yeah, and God doesn't trust me with too much money because I don't have it.

And you know, Carm and my Social Security are my retirement. That's it. We don't have much. My wife and I just don't. You know, ministry has not paid well, and that's not why we get into it for money.

But. You know, God just raises up people. And one of the things, though, I'll say, just, I want to say this: it took me years, literally years, to. Be okay with accepting money from one of the guys who would keep us afloat. And I've known this guy for a long time.

And I, you know, frequently I'd say, look, I don't like this. I want the ministry to be able to support itself. You know, and he says, don't worry about it. He was helping us out. And he had to struggle to do that.

And he was sacrificing here and there to help us out. And I said, no, no, you know, don't do that with your business. Anyway, it's just that, it's just one of the things we have to go through. And in this life. You know, and so I'm grateful that God puts rich people on the in the world.

They provide jobs, they provide ability, they have the wisdom to be able to do that, and they can support other ministries. And so then I can be free to do what I do. Look, I just released a roughly three-minute minute video on Mormonism today on TikTok. And you know, it's kind of a dull presentation. I gotta learn how to get more excited there, but I'm able to do that.

And it's because of all my experience and knowledge and stuff like that, I'm able to do that, including teaching myself how to use. Um video audio software. and teaching myself how to To do all kinds of stuff in TikTok and how to do stuff in Rumble, how to do stuff in YouTube. I have to learn all kinds of sets of things in order just to have a video go up. And you know, so it takes me like all day today to do one video.

To do one, research it, put it up, get it going, and here we are. And, you know, no complaints, but if I had a job. where I had to do that and this, I wouldn't be able to do nearly as much.

So you see, rich people can certainly help, and praise God for them, okay? All right.

And yes, sir, and God bless those people and God bless you too. being free enough to do it. I certainly appreciate it. I do too. I do too.

And uh So praise God, Germaine. Appreciate you, buddy. All right.

All right, bye-bye. God bless.

All right, now, next longest waiting is Ebenezer. Ebenezer, welcome. You are on the air. Hey Matt. Uh yeah.

So my question is like You remember when you were breaking down that passage, baptism for the remission of sins, to try to make an argument for how baptism. Doesn't isn't a requirement for salvation. And then he kind of made a correlation. to John John the Baptist's baptism. Right, yeah, I can vote again.

Yeah, yeah, I was wondering if you could do that. Sure. It says in Acts 2.38, this is one of the famous verses that the false teachers called baptismal regenerationists will do. They'll go to Acts 2.38, which says, Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And they think the gift of the Holy Spirit is, most of them think this, that it means salvation.

They also say that if you are baptized for the sin, For the forgiveness of sins, the phrase for the forgiveness of sins means that's how you get. forgiveness of sins. by baptism.

Now in Greek the phrase for the forgiveness of sins is as officen hamertium. Es aficin harmartium. That exact same phrase occurs in Mark 1:5. Let's see, was it Mark V? Oh anyway, I know it's mar it's uh Luke 3.3.

Luke 3:3, and it says they were preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

So the exact same phrase, Mark 1, 3, or 5. Anyway, but Luke 3:3 for sure, right there. And they all came out the district around the Jordan preaching a baptism or John the Baptist did, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Now, Here's the thing: if the phrase for the forgiveness of sins means you get forgiveness of sins, then the phrase used here in regard to baptism also. Means you get forgiveness of sins by John the Baptist baptism. And I asked this guy a couple days ago, I was. You know, informally debating him on this. And I says, Does that mean that John the Baptist baptism got them forgiveness of sins?

And he said, Yes. And I said, okay, then, then would they need to get baptized again under the Trinitarian baptism? for the forgiveness of sins? And he said yes.

Well, wait a minute. If you've already been forgiven of your sins by John's baptism, then why are you getting baptized again for more forgiveness of sins? It doesn't make sense unless he wants to say John's baptism only forgave a little bit of your sins, part of your sins. You've got to go for the rest of the baptism in Jesus to get more of your sins forgiven. But then that means you've got to be doing whatever it is to get your sins forgiven repeatedly.

There's a serious problem here. And so he would say, Well, you got to accept Jesus under the new covenant and get baptized.

Well, that gives you forgiveness of sins. Yes, but you're already forgiven of sins if you got baptized under John's baptism. You see?

So you see the problem. And then I asked it. And then I asked another question. I said, Look, if they're baptized under John's baptism for the forgiveness of sins, that means their sins are forgiven. Did they still need to go to the temple and offer sacrifices for Percent.

If they say yes, well then why if their sins are already forgiven in John's baptism? But if they say, no, they've got to continue in the sacrificial system, then forgiveness of the sins didn't get them forgiveness of sins. You see?

Yeah. Hold up. What what was what was those uh the passages that were that correlate with uh Acts two thirty eight? Luke 3. Just, you know, the phraseology, how it was used also in, what was that passage?

John the Baptist, when he baptized Jesus, what was that passage again? Mark 1:4, Luke 3, 3. And hold on, buddy. We got a break, so hold on, okay? Be right back.

Folks, we read back out for these messages, please. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show.

Ebenezer, are you still there? Yeah. All right, brother. We've got nobody waiting, so we can talk about this for a while if you want.

So go ahead.

Okay.

Yeah, um so okay. Uh yes, so you're you were basically saying you were basically saying that um It's used is used in the same, it's used in the baptism when John baptized Jesus. And so Um But but at that they were still going to the temple, you were you were saying.

So Pretty much. They would pretty much, it's still not under the old covenant.

So you were saying, like, they would still not. Keep on getting baptized.

So John the Baptist was baptizing before Jesus was crucified. The new covenant is ratified with the death of Christ. That's Hebrews 9:15-16.

So they're still under the obligation of the Old Testament law.

So they would have to then be uh if they're baptized for John's baptism. Then they would be required then to still offer sacrifices for their sins. Yet their sins are already forgiven.

So, you see the problem here, you see the difficulty. Yeah, so okay, yeah, so they would still have to go to the temple. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

So really, really so really 'cause 'cause a lot of the the like the Catholics and the Orthodox will say uh um You know, they will have requirements for the salvation. Pretty much, you're putting them back under the old law, the old covenant. Yes, both the EO and the RC, what they do. Is they They put their people back under law: that salvation is attained through your faith in Christ. And Baptism and Eucharistic participation and sacramental participation and obedience.

That these are the things that this is Old Testament's style. That you have to do certain things ceremonially to be saved. And so this is one of the things I'll ask people about baptism.

Now say is baptism a ceremony? And they say no, it's not. And I ask, well is uh circumcision a ceremony?

Well, of course it is.

So when I asked them to define what a ceremony is, or they asked me, You define ceremony. It's what they get snotty. And uh And I'll say it's a ritualistic formation, a ritualistic set of things you do. that are religiously based in our context here. Circumcision is that.

Passover is a ceremony. A wedding is a ceremony. Baptism is a ceremony. You have people present. you have these various things and they they will routinely say it's not a ceremony.

It's a ceremony. And they'll say, no, it's God's work, it's not a ceremony. I say, well, God's work is a ceremony. And so I say, what you're saying is that salvation is by your faith and your ceremony. Baptism.

Well, he says baptism is for salvation. He says, Where does it say baptism is for salvation? That you achieve salvation? They'll go to 1 Peter 3:21.

Okay, where it says baptism now saves you. Great. And then I ask him, okay. Let's go to 1 Peter 3.21. And I'll say, it says, and corresponding to that, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus.

And I'll say. Corresponding to that, the Greek word there is antitoupon. It's an antitype, a representation of something else.

So, what's the antecedent? What does corresponding to that refer to? It refers to what was in the second verse.

Well, I mean, the verse immediately before. I tell them, you've got to look at the context. And what they'll almost always do to me is this quote: baptism now saves you, four words. It's all they do. They don't code before, they don't code after.

Church of Christ does that too. Oh, yeah. That's right. They don't code before, they don't code after, they take it right out of context. And sometimes, what I'll do when I'm talking to them.

Sometimes I'll say, did you hear that? And they'll say, here what? And I'll say, well, you know, I mean, that ripping sound. I'll say, what are you talking about? A ripping sound?

Well, your converse being ripped out of context. Didn't you hear that sound? I don't like that. And I'll say the context. And sometimes I'll say to them, Let me, guys, I'm going to teach you a four-letter word.

I know generally you're not supposed to know four-letter words as a Christian, but here it is. Ready? I say context.

Well, that's not four letters. You don't get it, you know. Context. And so, corresponding to that, here's the previous verse, all right? It says, Who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely to the water.

Now there's three possibilities here of the antecedent of the word that. The word that could refer to the ark, The word that could refer to the water, or the word that could refer to the ark that they went into while they were being saved from the water. the whole thing.

So if it's the ark That's what I hold to, is the ark. Will they enter the ark by faith? God closed the door, God opened the door. And they say, Well, what did the water do? And I says, It lit yesterday.

Yesterday, this guy, I know their arguments, you know. He said, Well, what did the water do? Because they want to say washes away your sin, just like it got rid of the evil. And so I said, Well, I said, No, what the water did was it killed people. It killed the Nephilim.

And I said, if you go to Genesis 6:9, it says, Moses, I mean, Moses, Noah was perfect in all his generations. It looks like the Nephilim were increasing. God had to wipe them out. It's a legitimate theory, okay?

So I told him, you've killed the Nephilim. That's what it was, was to kill people kill kill them. And that's not what they want to hear.

Well, it got rid of evil and your evil of your sin, so therefore it washes away your sin by getting baptized. I said. No, no, I'll respond with no, the blood of Christ does that, not your ceremony of getting your ceremony getting dunked in water. And then I got a couple, I mean, I could throw them for a loop, a whole nother thing. And we'll get through this, but let me do this.

I'll tell you something I say to them. It almost always stops them dead in their tracks. I mean, they go, what? Oh, it's good, but I'll tell you that in a second.

So, corresponding to that, baptism now saves you. And then what does Peter say? Not the removal of dirt from the flesh, not the water on the flesh. That's not what he's talking to, but an appeal to God. The baptism, that is an appeal to God, because baptism is a covenant sign.

Now look, I'm gonna show you something here. Oh, but but but you you you got you got can like can you break that down into Greek for me, man? I mean you kind of like zip through that and I like 1 Peter 2 21.

Okay.

So what he says is Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you. It's not the water that saved them, definitely not the water. The water killed. The water killed them. All right.

And so you can't say that it was. No, no, no, what were you talking about, the antecedent, though? The antecedent of that goes back to either the ark, the water, or the whole thing, the ark and the water, the whole event.

Okay.

But they're gonna want to say it's the water. And they'll say the water removed the evil.

So it removes you. I'll say, no, the ark killed people. What saved Noah? It wasn't the water, it was the ark. And that's the question that they don't want to answer.

But I've got him, I've forced them before. I say, what saved them? Was that the water or was that the ark? And five minutes later, they go, okay, it was the ark. I say, okay, good.

So, corresponding to that, baptism now saves you. That's why I say it's the ark. And they entered the ark by faith. And so they're entering baptism by faith.

Now I'm going to show you something, okay? I'm going to sidestep, go to Romans 4, 11.

Now pay attention here, okay? And he, Abraham, received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Circumcision was a seal. of the righteousness of faith that he already had.

So circumcision was a seal. Wow. It was a seal. It was pretty much like an outward, it was an outward expression, right? It was a covenantal sign, right?

Covenantal sign.

Now, It's a seal.

So circumcision is a seal.

Now, we go to Colossians 2. Oh, that's why Paul said it's the new circumcision, baptism.

Now, hold on. I'm going to show you something. And I'll show you something else, too. I'll talk about this for a long time.

So, this is. Colossians 2, 11 and 12. And in him you are also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you are also raised up with him through the faith of the working of God who raised him from the dead.

So I say Paul relates circumcision and baptism, doesn't he? He relates them. I'm not saying he equates them one to one, but he certainly says circumcision of the baptism is the circumcision of Christ. But circumcision didn't save anybody. It was a covenant sign.

And so as circumcision was a seal of the righteousness already possessed, we can make the case then by inference that baptism is a seal of the faith already possessed. Covenants on so but uh as far as uh covenants on So, but that was baptism. Hold on. It is a covenant sign. It is.

It replaces circumcision.

Now, hold on. And we'll get after the break, I'll tell you even more stuff, okay?

So hold on. All right.

Hey, folks, we'll be right back before, I mean, before, right after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright everyone, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Ebenezer.

Ebenezer, are you still there, buddy? User All right, I forgot my momentum there because I was debating, not debating, but putting stuff in the chat room, writing some notes.

So let's just kind of continue. Go ahead, what do you got? Yeah, no, no, we was just going over how uh Uh circumcision is baptism in nut. And then in the New Testament, right? Yeah, and there's a guy in a text.

There's a baptismal regenerationist, and they're so brainwashed into the false doctrine that you have to be bought or baptized in order to be saved. That let me just say that along with that false teaching are other heresies that are necessarily attached to it. And what I'll do is I will often tug at them. And I mentioned something earlier. I could go so many different directions on this.

But I'll show them. I'll say, is water baptism necessary for salvation? They'll say yes. It's necessary. Yes.

What about infants who die? We don't get baptized. They go to hell.

Well, they're not at the age of accountability. There's no such thing as the age of accountability in the Bible.

So, well, what about their sin nature? They don't have a sin nature, some say. Or they may have a sin nature, but never sin, so they can go to heaven.

So then they go to heaven without the atoning sacrifice of Christ. They go to heaven because they haven't a sin nature.

So now they're teaching more heresy. Yeah. Well, no, no, infant death. What happens to babies who die who don't get baptized? Because if it's necessary for salvation, you have to be baptized.

But then they'll make exceptions. And I'll say, oh, so it's not necessary, is it? Oh, it's necessary for adults. Oh, what defines an adult?

So, what they do is they start deciding what all this stuff means, and it's not even in scripture. Perfect. They rip scripture out of context all the time. And here's one of the things that I'll do that really messes with them. And it does.

I say, look, does baptism mean immersion? Oh man, because they're so inner ignorance, they go, Yeah, it just means a merchant. And I say, No, it can, maybe. I said, but Jesus wasn't immersed. He was sprinkled according to the Old Testament law.

get to fulfil the law. He entered into the priesthood according to the law. And they, what? No, he was immersed. I go, show me where he's immersed.

He went down into the water. Coming up out of the water.

Well, that doesn't mean he's immersed. Just as the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip both went into the water and both came up out of the water, were they both immersed? Of course not. It doesn't make any sense.

So I say one quick thing. What about infant baptism? Um I was talking to a a a Coptic guy and he was like, Yeah, it's biblical, but You're like He would he would um You know, the Cornelius' household, and it's like you're insinuating, or you know, I'm saying, you're making an inference saying that, oh, he had kids.

Well, you know, yeah, I have an argument. I believe in infant baptism, but not as a sign of salvation, but as a covenant sign. Because, and this is my argument. We don't have to go into it because it's not the best argument in the world, but it's why I affirm it. Because in the Old Testament economy, God commanded infants to be included in the covenantal faithfulness of his people.

Absolutely did. And the covenant of circumcision included the males and by proxy. Yes, you're right. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. The babies who were female were in the father as federal headship that represented.

So they were.

So they were there.

So the Abrahamic covenant is still in effect because it's called the Gospel. You got to let me finish, dude, because you keep jumping in. I know you're excited, but that's good. But hold on.

So, Genesis 12:3 is where God says, In you, all the nations shall be blessed. And Paul quotes that in Galatians 3:8, and he calls it the gospel. That means the Abrahamic covenant is still in effect.

So, where's the covenant requirements that in the stamina covenant now that excludes the infants from that? That's my argument. But, you know, I don't worry about it. But, look, here's something else. No, I apologize.

I apologize, Matt. I was just agreeing with you. I know. I know. But then again, because you're excited.

I got to wait for you to finish because if I'm talking while you're talking, then people can't hear you.

So, that's all right. It's all right. You're getting it.

So, what they're going to do, they're going to do various things. Watch this. They go to like Romans 6, okay? And. Don't you know that all of us who've been baptized into Christ have been baptized into his death?

And I said, what does it mean to be baptized into? But uh One guy recently said to be identified with. And I went, that's correct. Because when you go to 1 Corinthians 10, it says, For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

So they're baptized.

Someone just used that same argument. A Coptic guy just used that same argument. And I'm like, hold up. Back to means different things in in certain things, depending on the context. Right.

And so that's what it means. It's an identification with. Because if it baptism means that this is how you obtain Jesus or obtain salvation, then they're baptized into Moses meant that's how they obtained Moses or obtained salvation and Moses. It makes no sense. Make no sense at all.

Now, here's another thing. Here's another thing.

Okay, I'm going to get into this a little bit.

Okay, now I'm going to slow down, but I need to teach a little theology before this baptismal regeneration idiocy can have yet another stake driven through its wicked heart.

Okay?

So listen to this.

Now, hold on. Yeah. In Jesus says, forgive us our sins, forgive us our debts. Jesus relates sin with legal debt in Matthew 6:12 and Luke 11:4, our Father who art in heaven. He relates sin with legal debt.

That's what he does. Sin is breaking the law of God, 1 John 3:4. On the cross, Jesus said to Telesti, John 19:30. to Telestai it is finished, was is found has been found on ancient tax receipts signifying a legal debt paid in full. All right, now.

In the Old Testament on Yom Kippur, the high priest would go into the tent behind the veil and sprinkle blood on the mercy seat, and then he'd he'd leave. That that sprinkling was a propitiatory offering. It removed the wrath of God from Israel. A propitiation does not make it possible. It accomplishes it by the doing.

Now this is very important theology. They don't know this stuff because they don't study the Bible that well. They only study baptism and anything that supports their view. But they don't study the rest of it. The issue here is that, and this is important for people to understand who are Christians.

Is that the propitiatory sacrifice on Yom Kippur is not made effective by anything that anybody did.

So the Jews outside the tabernacle, they didn't have to accept it to make it valid. It was valid by the act of its doing. The priest offered it, it was done and it was effective. It was not made effective later on by faith or by saying, Yes, I receive it, or I choose in my wisdom to believe it's true. This is critical.

Jesus is a propitiatory sacrifice, first John 2:2. Romans 3:25.

So he's a propitiation for our sins. He removed the wrath.

Now, logically, this brings some ramifications. We won't get into that now.

Now, when you go to Colossians 2:14, I ask these guys. says he ca having cancelled the certificate of debt Consisting of decrees which is halted to us, he took it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When was, and this is critical, when was this the SIN debt, certificate of debt, cancelled? And they say Well, when you get baptized, I could read the verse again. Oh no, yeah.

Having nailed it to the cross, and I had to hammer them over and over. What does it say?

Well, it says at the cross.

So when's the sin debt cancelled? At the cross, and they don't like this. And I say, if it's canceled at the cross, it's not canceled when you get baptized. It's already cancelled by Christ. Yeah.

Because it's the action of God's work in Christ that actually removes the wrath of God. Then I'll ask them other questions, and then they don't like the direction I take them because they can't understand propitiatory penal substitutionary atonement. They don't understand it because they don't study that stuff. That what they do is they have a mental um malaise, a fog over their mind. That that baptism is a ceremony you have to participate in in order to get your sins forgiven.

Well, then that means then they're not justified by faith.

Now, watch this. This is another thing I do with them. Romans 5:9 says this. much more than having now been justified by his blood, we shall be saved. from the wrath of God.

So Paul relates justification and salvation in one verse. If you're justified, you're saved.

Okay, if you're saved, you're justified. Justification is a legal declaration of righteousness.

Now, in Romans 4:3. Abraham believed God, it was credited to him as righteousness. in Romans 4.5 to the one who does not work But believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. Faith is what's credited as righteousness. Faith is what's credited as righteousness, not baptism.

Faith is what's credited as righteousness. And I asked them. Are you I had to prove it to them. I had to argue with them for them to accept God's Word. I have to do it over and over and over.

because they submit the entire Bible to their baptismal regeneration heresy. It's a crowbar of logic to get them, you know, get this weeds out from underneath the idiocy and their hairballs of heresy that they got. They tug on one thing, all this stuff comes unraveled.

So, look, I say. They are justified by faith. That's what the Bible says. And justification is a legal act of righteousness. And I finally get them to agree, and I say, good.

Here's the question I'm going to ask you now. Are you justified by faith when you have faith? If they say yes, then they're justified before baptism. If they say no, they deny justification by faith. Either way their doctrine is refuted.

I'm not sure.

Okay.

Mm yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right.

So yeah, well We should get baptized, but it's not the thing that removes us from our sins. And then, when you say about babies, then they have to get into semi-Pelagianism. And then they get into, then they deny original sin. It's just one thing leads to another, it's a snowball of heresy. No, but the thing is that the Catholics, they'll deny Pelagianism, which is, they'll say, oh, our church Pelagian.

They're semi-pelegier. Yeah. Yeah, you know, you ever seen Princess Bride? You know, when Miracle Max was working on what's his name, the guy, anyway, you ever see that movie? But you're gonna see it.

Dude, dude, look. Go see Princess Bride. You gotta read it. It's awesome. It's just a great film.

It has a huge cult following. There's so many good lines in it. And here's one of the lines. It's a comedy, and it's really set well. It's just really well done.

And so Miracle Max is trying to save the guy. And he says, he's just mostly dead. Not all dead, just mostly. And so I use that line with the semi-Pelagians. The unbelievers are just mostly dead.

They're not really dead. They have the ability. They have the ability of their own wisdom to be able to choose God. All they need is the neutrality of God's grace to bring them to that place where they can just make a choice left and right, up and down, good or bad, yes or no. It's up to them.

And this is humanist philosophy. And like I asked one guy last night, I said, if it's up to, man, we're almost done here because the time's almost out. If it's up to you and your choice, and God has to make it possible for you to have the opportunity to be saved. You know, it's ridiculous. It doesn't say that.

I say, then, why does Jesus, hold on, hold on, let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. Then why does Jesus say in John 6, 65, you cannot come to me unless it's granted you from the Father? Yeah, you know.

See, we're out of time, buddy. Call back tomorrow, man. We can talk. We're done. We're done.

We're out of time. It's a hard break. It's going to end. All right? Call back tomorrow.

All right, brother Goffless. All right, Ebenezer. Hey, I enjoy that. Oh, I love teaching on this stuff. I hope that was informative and interesting.

May the Lord bless you, and by his grace. We're back on here tomorrow. We'll just. We'll talk to you then. God bless.

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