Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at KARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick.

Make your list of Matt Slick live, if you want, as usual, on April 10th, 2025. If you want to give me a call, the number is easy, 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you.

Give me a call and we can talk about all kinds of stuff. I released some articles today, more quotes and some stuff. I'm working on another article exposing an error from Ken DeMeyer, not Ken DeMeyer, Gary DeMeyer. Boy, I don't get my names mixed up. And some heresy, some false stuff he's teaching.

You know, it's just what it is. And so, if you want to email me, you can do that as well, 877- I'm not doing all these things at once. I've got to focus. Just email me at info at carm.org, info at c-a-r-m dot o-r-g, and put the subject line radio comments, radio question.

Either one of those is all you're going to do, and the email will get to us. So, why don't we just jump on the air and let's get to Porter from North Carolina. Porter, welcome. You're on the air, buddy. How are you doing today? I'm all right. Hang on in there, man. Hang on in there.

What do you got? My question is about Once Saved, Always Saved. Like, I'm part of the Free Will Baptist Church. And, like, I don't believe that there's any works involved to be saved. I believe it's just trusting in Christ. But I feel like that you can still reject Christ and denounce him in apostasy, like apostasy, and not be saved anymore. Like, what's your stance on Once Saved, Always Saved? Well, Jesus said in John 6, 37 through 40, that's what we need to go to and see what Jesus says about it.

And to me, it's very clear. He says, all that the Father gives me will come to me. And when it comes to me, I certainly will not cast out, for I have come down from heaven not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of him who sent me, that of all that he's given me, I lose nothing but raise it up on the last day. This is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in him will have eternal life, and I myself will raise him up on the last day. So Jesus is saying, we can't lose any, because if he did, he'd be sinning.

He'd have failed to do the will of the Father. So, like, if you apostasy, you would still be going to heaven, like if you quit Christianity and went to another religion? The Bible says in 1 John 2, 19, they went out from us because they never were of us. If they had been of us, they would have remained. So when someone leaves, this shows that they would never truly say to begin with, they're playing the game.

Yeah, thank you for the response. Okay. And now, when you say Free Will Baptist, what do you mean? Because there's different phrases that people use for that, what do you mean? So, Free Will Baptist is basically, we don't, like, I forgot what the, we don't believe in the Calvinist view, it's the other view, I forgot the name.

Arminian? Yes. But it's basically, like, we believe that you have free will to choose Christ to be forgiven of sin, like, it's not pre-death, like, it's still up to you.

Okay. So let me ask you, Free Will, okay? So it's up to people's free will choices. If that's the case, why does Jesus say, you cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the Father? John 6, 65. Why does he say that?

If it's just up to you? Can you repeat that? Sorry.

Sure. John 6, 65, Jesus says, you cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the Father. So, like, I'm kind of new to Christianity, like, I don't understand it, like, I understand, like, the main things, like, basically, I guess what I'm saying is, like, you're not saved, like, do you believe you're not saved until you trust in Christ?

Okay, let me help you out here. You're new to Christianity, you're in a Free Will Baptist Church, they're going to mislead you in some things. There's some serious theological error, okay, they're going to do that. It doesn't mean you're not saved, or it's a call for anything like that. But what they'll do is they're going to uplift human freedom, human will.

So let me, if you don't mind, I'll spend a little time with you and help you out. Because it's not me being arrogant, it's years and years and years of discussing this, going over this, examining this, debating it, teaching it, I mean, thousands of hours, all right? So the free will issue, free will is not the ability to simply be able to choose good and bad, you can do either one and then you choose and no one forces you, that's not free will. Because if that's what free will is, then God doesn't have free will, because God cannot choose to do good or evil.

He can only do that which is good. And what people automatically do, and amateur theologians and people who don't deep dive into the scriptures, they will define terms unwittingly, terms in relationship to themselves and their standards. So for example, free will means you have to be able to do something good or bad, it's free will choice. That's what free will is.

Well, that's a human standard, it's not the divine standard. Because God can't, like I said, God cannot do those things that are evil. So we have to define free will as it relates to God because we're made in his image, Genesis 1.26. So free will is the ability to make a choice consistent with your nature that's not forced on you.

Now we have God included in that. He's holy, he cannot sin, so he's choosing freely according to his nature. And the unbeliever freely chooses according to his nature. And the Bible says of the unbeliever, he's a slave of sin, Romans 6, 14-20, a hater of God who doesn't seek for God and can't do any good, Romans 3, 10, 11, and 12. Spiritual things, he cannot understand them or receive them, 1 Corinthians 2.14. His heart's desperately wicked and deceitful, no man can trust it, Jeremiah 17.9. He's by nature a child of wrath, Ephesians 2.3. So if you have someone, as the Bible says, the unbeliever is a slave of sin, a hater of God, doesn't seek for God, doesn't do any good, he's by nature a child of wrath, he's full of wickedness. Well how does he just pick God? Well, he's on free will. But that doesn't answer the question. If the Bible tells us that they can't, then you shouldn't be saying they can.

That's my point I ask people. Because if it's the case that it's just up to your free will, then Jesus would not have said, you can't come to me unless it's granted to you by the Father, John 6.65. Just think of John 6.66, just go back one verse and it'll be easier to remember, John 6.65, okay?

So you can go there and you can check it out. And there's other verses like this. So like you're saying when someone chooses to trust in Christ, they're not choosing to do that?

Yes, they are choosing to do it. Because Philippians 1.29 says, God grants that we believe. He grants it to us. To you it has been granted, not only to believe, but also to suffer for his sake. Jesus says in John 6.65, this is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent. See, you actually do the believing, but God works at that, you do what he grants that you believe.

That's what the Bible teaches. This is, there's a fundamental principle here that people say, well, Calvinism is bad or Reformed theology is bad and they want free will, this or free will, that. The fundamental difference is one is God-centered, one is man-centered.

It's as fundamental as that. In Reformed theology, God is a sovereign king who elects and predestines, and I can show you the verses for that. In non-God sovereignty stuff or man's free will, man is the one in his wisdom who will choose God, it's up to him and his ability. That's humanist philosophy that's crept into the church. You don't find it in scripture. And I'll debate this, I'll fly out to somebody's church, I'll have a debate on this topic.

I will. So like the people in the free will Baptist churches and some Baptist churches that teach the other side, are they not saved? Of course they're saved. They're putting their faith or trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, and they're brothers and sisters in Christ. But what they'll often do, and I've had many, many, hundreds, hundreds, hundreds of encounters like this, is they will denounce things like God predestines or God elects, but the Bible says he doesn't. And I show them the verses, they don't like them. And the problem is not that they're not saved, they're saved. It's that they have an arrogance about them in that they're denying the word of God because they're in a group that is tickling their ears about their own ability, their own wisdom, their own free will, that can then put things together because then they're the ones who in their wisdom chose God. Do you think about that?

Because if it's up to people, if it's up to us, why did Jesus say, you cannot come to me, cannot, it's not possible, you can't, unless God grants it to you. John 6, 65, and when I show that to people, they stub their theological toes and they start whining. Yeah. I also want to say, I like all the content you do with other religions and stuff because there's a lot of Christian groups that say they believe in God, but then they have idols and nowhere is that in the Bible at all.

Brother, man, give yourself a high five. You were so right. Yeah. The Eastern Orthodox Church, the Rowan Catholic Church, they're so guilty of these things of battling before idols, you know, oh, it's horrible, oh, it's this. That's right. But anyway, look, you have to understand something. It says, he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we'd be holy and blameless and in love, he predestined us to adoption as sons. That's Ephesians 1, 4, and 5. That's what it says. When you mean predestined, you mean like he's already chosen us, but we have to accept that, right?

Yeah, of course he's chosen us. Yeah. In fact, let me try and trick you, okay? I'm going to try and trick you in a nice way, you ready?

Okay, I'm going to try it. Okay, here goes. Okay. All right. Here we go.

Do you believe, here we go, that God chooses us from the beginning for salvation? What do you think? No. Okay. Well, like, well.

Things will probably hit a log here. This is 2 Thessalonians 2, 13, but we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification. Yeah. By the Spirit and faith.

So he did. You see? Yeah. People get upset with me when I talk to them about this stuff, because I go, well, there's this verse, there's that verse.

And I just show what the Bible says. Here's another one. You ready for this?

How about this? Yeah. I'm going to try and trick you again, okay?

Here we go. Would God ever make anyone for the purpose of destruction and doing bad stuff? No. This is Proverbs 16, 4, the Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil. I do this to people all the time.

I never thought that would be in the Bible. Yeah. Oh, I do this all the time with people.

I'll say, well, you know, I'll have a conversation. I believe God makes everything, even the wicked for the day of evil. I believe it.

They go, that would never happen. And I said, but I'm quoting Proverbs 16, 4 to you. You understood exactly what it says, and you flat out reject it.

Now what are you going to do? Well, it doesn't mean what you say, but what does it mean then? So like normally in the Baptist denomination, are they Calvinist or are they the other group or does it depend? Which denomination? Like, let's say, there's different groups of Baptists, like Southern Baptists, but as Baptists as a whole, do they normally believe the Calvinist theology or the other theology? Well, I don't know the proportion, but there are Reformed Baptists out there, Reformed, and they hold to these doctrines.

And then there's other Baptists who don't. Now, I just want you to understand, I tell people, look, this is what the Bible says. It's up to you to make a decision about that.

But it doesn't mean you're saved or not saved if you accept them or reject these things. Okay? Thank you. Hold on. Hold on. You want to hold on or? You're done.

We got a break. Hold on. Okay. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back. Hey, Porter, are you still there? Yes, I am.

You're still there? Hey, by the way, I'm just going to say, I forgot I'm wearing a t-shirt. Literally the t-shirt I'm wearing right now says, I'm the Calvinist your Armenian pastor warned you about.

Kind of a funny joke there, but, you know. And so, yeah, I'm a strong one. I'm strong. I can defend it from memory. I can stand up for an hour and just talk about it and quote scriptures.

Go back and forth. But here, I want to say this, look, these are important, man. I don't care if you're a Calvinist or not. I don't care about that.

I care if you love the Lord Jesus Christ and if you serve him and you honor him. He's the Lord. He's the king. Not Calvin. Not Arminius. Not Luther.

Not anybody. But the Lord Jesus Christ. The thing I have a problem with is when groups misrepresent Reformed theology and speak evil of it when they should not do that.

They're causing division in the body of Christ. That's what I have a problem with. Okay, better. Yes. Thank you. All right. You got anything else?

What else you got, man? Basically it's just like, but predestined, you just mean that God already knows who's going to be saved and who's not, right? No. Predestined means he makes a choice. And the reason that it's not that he just knows what you're going to do for two reasons. If that's the case, then God is reacting to what he sees you're going to do.

Then his choice depends on your choice. And that's heresy. It means God's reactionary. Another thing is that nothing can occur unless it's by the will of God. Ephesians 1-11 says God works all things after the counsel of his will. Your free will choices and my free will choices are worked after the counsel of God's will. In fact, in Proverbs 21-1 it says God moves the heart of the king where he wishes it to go. What I would strongly recommend you do is go to Romans 9 and start at verse 9. I've taught this so many times. But if you go to Romans 9, 9-23, in fact, how about this, I'll say something here. This will shake you up, okay? It's good because it's what the scriptures teach.

How about if I do this, I ask you to do this if you want, you can do it if you want, and call back tomorrow and say what your reaction was to Romans 9, 9-23. Because in that section of scripture, in that pericope, it should make you go, what? That can't be right. Because that's what Paul says. Well, wait a minute, why does he still find fault?

Wait a minute, that's not right. He says the same basic objections to what he's teaching himself. If you read the text and you go, uh, what, that can't be right, then you're understanding what Paul's teaching.

Because if you don't raise those same objections, you don't understand what he's teaching. There's a test inside that section. So you're saying like call back after I've read Romans chapter 9 tomorrow? Romans 9, 9-23, the whole chapter, of course, but it's Romans 9, 9-23 is the main section. If you want, check it out and you can call back. And I've written on this many times and debated it many times and gone through it verse by verse many times, and you'll see stuff in there that a lot of people deny. And what they're denying is God's right and God's sovereignty. And what they'll do, well, I'm not going to tell you what they're going to do because I don't want to skew your understanding of the text.

So if you want to do that, it's a good exercise. Call you back and we can talk if you want. Okay. Um, thanks. And thanks for all the stuff that you put out, like articles and stuff. Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, I appreciate that. It's a lot of work. It's hard.

And, uh, but it's for the body of Christ and by God's grace, I'm doing it well and only by his grace, if I do it all. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Okay. You're going to try that.

You're going to try reading Romans nine, nine to 23 and then call back tomorrow and we can talk about it. I'll do that. Yes. Okay.

It'll, it'll cause you to think it'll cause you to think. Okay. All right, brother. All right, man.

Good stuff. All right. We'll get going.

Get the other callers. All right, man. Okay. Thank you. Have a great day.

You too, brother. God bless. All right.

All right. That was good. I like that. Call us.

Good guy. Let's get to Alex from Florida. Hey. Hey Alex. How you doing, man?

I'm doing good. Hey, I heard this weird thing where you have to be baptized with your tears in order to be born again. Do you know anything about this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've been talking about that a little bit. So you have to swallow the tears you do yourself in order to be baptized, to be saved. Yes.

I've never heard that. That's important. That is, that is a key aspect to it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man.

So much heresy. So little time. I just, I can't believe you still take that guy's calls, you know? Well, when there's nobody waiting, you know, there's nobody there, I'll take this call because it's good exercise and you never know.

It's not a mockery to him. You never know. Maybe the Lord in his kindness will open Patrick's mind and heart to the truth.

You just never know. That's what we want. So that's what we're hoping. That's all we can pray for, right? That's what we can do. We're in sales, not production. Exactly.

That's right. So I'm reading this book for the seminary class about penal substitutionary atonement. Okay. And one of the objections, which I found kind of strange, but I was, I would kind of, I kind of wanted to know how you would tackle it.

I thought the author did a pretty good job, but it's, you know, in a book, like I would, you know, if someone came up to me on the street, like I would just kind of wondering where you would go. So the objection is, people say this, penal substitution implicitly denies that God forgives sin. That's stupid. Yeah. It's stupid. Yeah.

It's just not true. PSA, penal, what it means for those who don't know, it means law, legal, like a penal colony, you know, for punishment, substitutionary. And it's absolutely the case that God forgives sins and that Jesus Christ is the one who took our place. That's Isaiah 53, four through five, and that he gave his life a ransom, Mark 10, 45. He became sin on our behalf, 2 Corinthians 5, 21. In 1 Peter 2, 24, he bore our sins at his Biden cross. And this is how we have forgiveness of sins. And that's what the gospel is, the forgiveness of our sins. 1 Corinthians 15, one through four, as Christ did that.

1 John 1, seven, eight, and nine, that we confess the blood of Christ forgives us of all our sins. It's just, it's dumb for people to say that. Yeah, it's dumb. Yeah. I thought it was pretty ridiculous. There were a few in here and that one just jumped out.

I was like, I've never, how could you even substantiate that? And it's such a low view of God to even say something like that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's bad.

So a lot of times what people do when they attack another position is they don't represent it well. And that's a good example of a false representation that PSA does not teach the forgiveness of sins. Yes, it does.

I mean, it does. Jesus equated sin with legal debt, you know, our Father, heart and heaven, hallowed be thy name. In Matthew 6, 12, he says, forgive us our debts, in Luke 11, 4, forgive us our sins. Jesus equated sin with legal debt. And he said, and forgiving both. That's what it is. Jesus did this.

So the person who said it doesn't know what they're talking about. Hey, hold on, man. We gotta break. Yeah. Okay. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Alex. Are you still there, buddy?

Yeah, I'm still here. I was thinking during the break, why don't you explain to people why it's so important? You know, we've talked about how some of these Eastern Orthodox practices and some of these false religions start denying it. So why is it so important? Why is it so important to hold to that as a Christian? You mean to PSA?

Yeah. Because that's what the Bible teaches. I remember once I was at a Bible study and I was going in, it was kind of a liberal based one. I went in to check things out and when I was listening, I remember these two guys talking and they were talking about PSA and they said how unbiblical it was. And I remember saying to them, I said, well, actually it's very scriptural. And I remember the mocking expressions, you know, as they roll their eyes. And I never thought about that. Yeah, I've encountered that.

Oh yeah. Well, what is penal substitutionary atonement? Penal is legal. Jesus was made under the law, Galatians 4.4.

He never broke the law. First John, excuse me, First Timothy 2.22. He bore our sin in his body. First Peter 2.24. Sin is a legal debt. Matthew 6.12 with Luke 11.4. He said on the cross to Telestai, John 19.30, it is finished.

That word to Telestai has been found handwritten on ancient tax receipts signifying the legal debt paid in full. To say that the atoning work of Christ is not legal is to say it's not according to the Old Testament law, where there had to be an unblemished sacrifice, where Christ was made under that law, Galatians 4.4. To say it's not legal is just abject foolishness. It's just foolishness. You know, they get their heresy out of second colonoscopies, the book, you know, it's just ridiculous. And substitutionary is clearly, hold on, it's not our heresy book, the second colonoscopy next to first hysterectomies.

And so these are the books that a lot of heretics use. And when it says in Isaiah 53, surely our griefs he himself bore. He bore our griefs. That means he took our place. He took what was wrong to us.

That's substitutionary. And our sorrows he carried away. His crush for our iniquities. The chastening for our well-being fell upon him. He bore our sin in his body on the cross, 1 Peter 2.24. To me, the idiocy of denying legal substitutionary atonement is phenomenal.

It's right there. Well, just define what it means. Legal. And he took our place. And to atonement, which we can get into according to the Old Testament law, he certainly was that. And we say, is this what he did?

Yes, that's by law. Right? Well, he took our place, right? There you go. Legal substitutionary atonement. Legal substitutionary. PSA. How do you refute that? That's right.

Yeah, it's right there. What's the verse? I was just learning that he's the perpetuation of our sins, he roods.

What is it? 1 John 2.2. He's a perpetuation only for our sins, but the sins of the whole world.

Okay? Propitiation means the sacrifice that removes wrath. It does not make it possible, dependent on what we do. And a lot of times, you understand that these people who deny PSA, a lot of times, the sacrifice of Christ is made effective by their wisdom, their faith, their ability. That's something you've got to watch for.

You've got to ask them. Do you apply, does the sacrifice of Christ become effective when you believe it? And they go, yes. Well then, that's false doctrine. It doesn't mean they're not saved, it just means they don't understand what the Bible's teaching. Yeah, it always comes down to man-centered theology, doesn't it? That's right. Now, I happen to have written an article on this back in 2017, what is penal substitutionary atonement. I go on CARM, and I give the references, okay? He had to obey the law perfectly.

He was ahead to be a sacrificial lamb, that's Exodus 12.3, John 1.29, who was a priest, Leviticus 4.20, Hebrews 7.23-24, who made atonement, Leviticus 17.11, Hebrews 9.14, without blemish, Deuteronomy 17.1, with Hebrews 9.14, offered as a Passover, okay, on the Passover, Exodus 12.11-13, and John 19.14-15. I mean, those are the proofs that what he did was according to the law, hence legal. And then I go through the substitutionary stuff, too. Bingo. That's good. That's good. Hey, I was going to say, are you going to do some hate mail tomorrow? I'm having hate mail withdrawals. It's a sad day.

We haven't been getting hate mail for a long time. I know. Well, I've got to start telling more people about you.

That's right. Well, let me check. I haven't checked this one area. Let me see, because I don't really do our emails anymore.

We have a helper team, and let's see. So I haven't checked. Hate mail. Look in the hate mail category. There's one in there. It's November.

And but it's not even a hate mail. All right, good. You'll read that tomorrow? Maybe.

It's just one. You know, I used to read them all the time. People would call me names. And I loved them. I would have fun with them. I enjoyed them. I know. They don't hate me anymore. They crack me up. It's either you get hate mail or you get a patch of your calls in.

It's one or the other. Yeah. Well, you know. Look at this. I got a lot of wacko mail from one guy in particular, a Wiccan person.

And I got Mew Kakata, OK, that's his name. And sometimes the guys, they give me these long emails, you know, 50,000 words, OK, so refute that. And how I refute it is I go, delete. I'm not going to read 50,000 words, you know. Who has time for that?

And I don't. Yeah. You know, they get into, I find people get on a particular track, you know, they'll give me 50 emails on, like Wicca, yeah, yeah, but there's a good email, I'll put that hate mail in. I got a hate mail. I just saw one.

I saw a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would be good for tomorrow, but. All right. Well, I got to go, man. But that was good. Yeah.

They don't teach that in a lot of churches, so. What hate mail? No, no.

The penal stuff. Oh, because when you switch topics without letting me know, then I wasn't, you know. You like that, right? I don't know.

When I just switch. Well, you know, my wife will do that. You'll be talking about going to a grocery store. Yeah, you pick up the groceries and the apples and you get some bananas. And when you go over here and get some bread and like that, I'll go, OK, apples, bananas, and she goes. And that's right.

That's why I bought the thing. I'm staring at her. What are we talking about now? Oh, I switched topics. OK.

Thank you. What are we talking about now? You don't know?

No, I do not. That's how it happens. So, yeah, I'm going to get myself in trouble for talking like this. I am. Yeah. Yeah, you are.

That's true. All right. Well, that was good, man. I got to go, though. All right, buddy.

We'll talk to you later, man. God bless. See you, brother. OK. God bless. Bye. All right. All right. Now, long time waiting. Let's get. Let's see.

We've got Severon from Montana. Welcome, brother. You're on the air. Well, hello there, Mr. Matt Flick Live. How are you doing, sir? Hey, I'm doing OK. I'm doing OK.

Hang it in there. What do you got, buddy? Hey, I've been listening to you these last few months. I came across you. I don't remember where I did, but I listen to podcasts, and I've just listened to a lot of your stuff. And I love your teachings that you're exposing of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church.

But I haven't heard anything talked about. Are you familiar with the Catholics' Ten Commandments versus the Ten Commandments in the Bible? Oh, yeah, they've altered them so that they can promote their idolatry. Yep. Uh-huh. OK. Yeah, that's something that a lot of people don't know about, that they took out the Second Commandment and broke up the Tenth Commandment in the last two there so they can worship and idolize Mary and the other saints. That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

It's well known, and because they're idolaters and promote idolatry, then they've altered the Word of God. Yep. I don't know if I have an article on that. Maybe I should write one if I don't have an article. Maybe Charlie will tell me.

Charlie, he helps me out. He knows my articles better than I do. He's always in there categorizing them and telling them, you know, he goes, yeah, you wrote one on this. I did. I didn't know that. I've written 4,600 articles, so yeah. But yeah, I'm very familiar with it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. All right. Do you want to stay or do you want to hold on or stay at all? Yeah, I'll hold on if you ain't got no other callers. Sure, hold on.

Well, you do, but it's OK. Hold on. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. I want to welcome back to the show Severin. Are you still there? Yes, sir. All right, man. All right. All right. So yes, they do, and I don't even have an article on it.

I didn't find one, so maybe I'll write one today just because I got so many things to do. I can do that, too. Yeah, and question on that. So with your experience in dealing with Roman Catholics, bringing that to their attention, has that been of value to show, I don't know how to ask that question, but has that just been of value of bringing that there, that they're going to actually listen to that and listen to what the scriptures say versus what their church says? Oh, no, no.

Yeah. I've brought up so many things like this to them, you know, I've coded Exodus 20, 1 through 17. I've gone through so many times about the idolatry and stuff like that, but they don't care. What they do care about is what their church tells them to think, tells them to believe. They care about praying to Mary more than Christ. They care about their idols and their images, and then they have what I call it a Frankenstein gospel, just like the EO, Frankenstein. What they do is they have the original gospel, and they sew on this little thing onto it, you know, charity, and then they add this little thing over here, the commandments. They add this over here, sacraments, and it's like a Frankensteining, it means to put parts together so that when they're done, they don't have the true image of the true gospel, but they have this monster creation of their own, and a Frankenstein gospel is what they have. And so I have talked to thousands, well, maybe thousands, I don't know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of Catholics and hundreds and hundreds of EO, I don't know how many, over the years, lots of years, and they don't care, they don't care what God's word says unless they can find a verse that bolsters their idolatry or their false doctrines.

That's it. They'll use the Bible to suit their preferences, but they won't submit to its teaching. There are so many examples of that I've had in my life with them, and it's bad because they're idolaters.

And think about this. In John 14 says, Jesus says, I am the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody comes to the Father but by me. The Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox, but we'll stick in the Catholics for now, say that they are the way to God. Jesus says he's the way, the truth. They are the way to get to God.

They are the truth, the way, the truth, and the life. And there's no salvation outside the Catholic Church, the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody comes to God except to Jesus, no. Nobody comes to God except to the Catholic Church. They functionally replaced Christ, and what they've done is put themselves up as an idol.

It's a pagan religion. Yeah, do you know if, was that changed, do you know from the very beginning of the Catholic Church, or was that something that wasn't added until later on? That I don't know, but I would like to research that. When did the Catholic Church change the Ten Commandments?

So I could just research it, but I don't know off the top of my head, that's a good question. I guess they realized that when people started correcting them, they're like, well, we better change this because we're not doing exactly what we're supposed to do, and that's really sad. Well, well, sir, I much appreciate everything you're doing, and I've been learning a lot from you, and I've been listening to a lot of your old stuff on Apologetics Live with Andrew Rappaport, and I just appreciate listening to you guys on how to defend the faith and to hold your composure with those individuals that sound can be very difficult. Yeah, and let me tell you, that is something I've worked real hard on. I still fail, but man, sometimes you just want to reach through the radio and slap them upside the head, you know, because it can be pretty difficult sometimes, but I try, you know, so I try and be nice. Is that why you do radio then, so you don't actually slap them? Well, I do do this sometimes, I said this online last night, I go to Discord, I debate and teach in there a lot. And the last night I actually said this, the first time I ever did it was on the radio, I don't know, 15 years ago, when some guy was talking to me, saying something, you know, that didn't make any sense, you know, just being, didn't have all his paws in the litter box, and he kept going on and on, and I said, okay, take your right hand and put it in front of your face so it's vertical and flat, and look to your left, you know what, now slap yourself upside the head, so, you know, that's what I'll do sometimes.

And the first time I did that, and the guy goes, you're such a child, I'd totally crack it up, I thought it was so funny, so, you know, you can't help it. That's funny, yeah, well, unfortunately, yeah, unless the Lord has mercy on these lost souls, he's the only one that can open their eyes and ears to it, so, well, I'll let you get on to your next caller, so, again, I appreciate your time, and God bless you, sir. You too, brother. God bless, man. Call up any time, sir, all right? All right. All right, man. All righty. I might take you up on that more often.

No problem, man. We like it. You have a good one, sir. You have a good sense of humor, too, so that's good. I like that.

It's good for you. Tell my wife that, would you? See, that's what I see, people say, Matt, you're great, and I go, call my wife up and tell her that, because she doesn't believe me.

Yeah, I'm the same thing, that's right, that's right, then I tell my wife, you know how lucky you are to have me, and then she does this weird stare, and then she rubs her forehead a lot. I don't know what's wrong with her, she gets headaches a lot, she's got issues, so. Poor lady, I'll be praying for her.

She needs it, obviously. Okay, brother, we'll see you, God bless. All right, God bless, bye. You too.

All right. Now, let's get to Nelson, there we go, there we go, hit the button, hey Nelson, sorry man, you're on the air, buddy. What's going on, Matt? Can you hear me?

Yeah, I can hear you fine, man, I can hear you fine, where are you going? Well, first and foremost, I enjoyed this episode, I enjoyed all of them all, of course, but I liked the first caller, you definitely, praise God, that's all I got to say, praise God. Good, praise God. So, I've been dealing with a couple of missionaries that have been coming to the house, if you know what I mean.

Mormons? Mm-hmm. Yes.

Okay. And they, I've seen them so far three times, and the third time they came with reinforcement. Good for you, good, good, good. And so, and I guess my question is, we had a good discussion, I was hearing them out, and I was giving them scripture, they were giving me a little bit of them, but I had a tendency of just, I guess, I have to learn how to control my, what's the word, my passion, and once they asked me, so what are you trying to say, is that word deceived? And I said, yes, and after that, it went downhill. And so, I guess my question is, I'm hoping that they come back, so I can talk to them, and so what do you advise, how to witness to Mormons?

You get some friends, and you get a large van that's empty in the back, and then you get a house that has, it's no furniture in it, and it has just a few chairs and a bright light, and then your friends help you get the Mormons into the van, they take them over to this place, and you deprogram them. Okay, that's one thing. That's one thing, yeah. Generally, it doesn't work, but you know, it's fun.

I'm bringing it back there. What you have to do is you have to ask questions of the Mormon missionaries. They have what's called a testimony. The testimony is a feeling, and it's a demonic manifestation, because they believe in a false God, a false gospel, a false Christ, and so when they pray to their false God, the God of Mormonism, which is a God of an exalted man from another planet who has a wife, and he has relations with her in heaven, mixed spirit babies, and Jesus, and all of us, and Satan, our brothers, and things like that, it's all false.

So when they pray to their God of that book, and the God of that theology, they're actually praying and contacting demonic forces, and so since they've opened themselves up to the demonic forces, they then get a testimony, get a feeling. And also, it says in Mormon 10-32, to pray by the Book of Mormon to see if these things are not true, and to see if they are true, to see if they're not true. They're not true. Not true. And I ask them, did you pray to see if it's not true?

Yes. Was it true? And they go, yeah, it's true. No, no, no. To see if it's not true.

And they go, what? It was not true. You've got a positive feeling, according to the text, to see if it's not true. Right?

So it's not true? I have fun with that. But you know, you've got to ask questions, all right?

You've got to ask questions. Yes. Yeah, because I did notice that I was given scripture, and I did get some nuggets from them in the sense of where they are at mentally, and they really, really look at the Book of Mormon more inspired than the Bible, and to see that firsthand in my faith, it was like, wow. Oh, yeah.

The eighth article in the Mormon Church says the Bible is correct insofar as correctly translated. You can't deny the Word of God. There's ways. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. You can go on CARM, and I've written well over 100 articles on Mormonism, and you can go read and look and learn, and it's obviously a non-Christian religion, you know? It's not Christian. It's just a... Hopefully, I'll definitely go on your website and try to look, find one or two or three, maybe one just for one, because how would you think that if I find one, a good one, I know they're all good, but print them out and have them read it to me? Would they read it? I don't know.

It just depends. But here, try this. It's going to sound a little bit odd. Ask to go to their church with them. Doesn't want to go, and you won't get cooties, you won't get spiritually deceived. Just say, look, I'd like to go check out your church, and they'll be surprised.

And you go, and you'll spend two to four hours and go to this stuff. Spend a day with these guys and see what they're like, because they're not enemies. They're not stupid. No, they're not. They're good folks. I mean, there's bad guys everywhere, but yeah, they're good guys. They seem very nice.

It's very, very nice. Of course, they are. And so I hope they come back, and so I'll definitely ask them. And I did ask, would you read the Mormon book? And I said, yeah.

And they told me, would you believe it? And I was like, well, from what I know from scripture, I mean, I'm sorry to say it, but I can't. But I'll read it.

Well, hold on. But the Book of Mormon doesn't have Mormonism in it. It doesn't have Mormon theology. What do you mean? Go to Carm and look up, wherever that noise is in the background. Oh, sorry, it's Wind chimes, yeah. So go to Carm and look up the Book of Mormon stuff, things not found in the Book of Mormon.

There are lots of citations in the Book of Mormon that contradict Mormonism. It's on your website? I've documented it. Oh, absolutely, yes. Oh, wow.

Okay. And look for the things not found in there. You'd be surprised. You'd absolutely be surprised what the Book of Mormon actually teaches, okay? It doesn't teach everything that's good, but it teaches there's only one God. It doesn't even know of any other gods. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, it does. All right.

It teaches us some false things, too, but we're out of time. Okay, we've got to go, okay? All right, Matt. Well, thank you very much. Bless you and your ministry. God bless. God bless. Okay.

Bye-bye. And I want to talk to Tisha about women pastors. And, Tisha, please call tomorrow's, one of my favorite topics to get into. Hopefully you're hearing me say that we could talk tomorrow about it. May the Lord bless you all, and by His grace, be back on there tomorrow. Lord willing, we'll talk to you then. Have a good one, everybody. This is a program powered by the Truth Network.