S04 Ep 41 Resolving the Sting of Conflict within the Church.

Welcome to Man Talk, a ministry sponsored by TAWCMM, Talking and Walking Christian Men's Ministry, where we're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination and to point men to their God-assigned roles. Now here's your hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr. Well, welcome to Man Talk.

Roy couldn't be with us today, but as always, you are here and we are thankful to God that you are. If you have attended any fellowship within the week, month, year, and you get into a congregation, it may be a congregation where you have been fellowshipping for many, many years, or it may be a new fellowship that you decided to attend because maybe someone opened up an invitation for you to come out and fellowship with them. And during the fellowship, during the worship, or even the message, you found that there was something that you perhaps disagreed with. And you know, we all have disagreements when it comes to things perhaps that we read, and we find that the things that we read may conflict with the things that we hear. So we have a question about that.

Now that doesn't necessarily mean that what you hear is incorrect because it may not be something that you have been open to study, or it may be something new to you. We are always faced with new challenges when it comes to the Word of God on a daily basis. If we have been in the Lord for any extended period of time, these things can turn into conflicts. You know, you have individual church members perhaps that have been at a fellowship for a while, and they feel like that they have the ability to say this, that, or the other over someone else, or that our opinion should weigh more heavier than someone else.

We all experience this. And so Jesus tells us, because conflicts are going to exist in any and every church, and it's going to exist because we have people who were and maybe still are practicing sin. So you have people who are truly regenerated, and you have people who are sort of like back and forth on the wall, and then you have some people who are simply over the wall, and they have not been converted. So you have these three groups of people, if you will, and each and every one of us, we have been exposed to certain things in our life. We have heard certain ministries, heard certain messages, heard certain people within the church. When we find that conflict arrives, maybe someone who is coming in that should be put into a position of teaching or something like that, and we disagree with the fact that they should be teaching, and so we go to the leadership of the church and voice our opinion, or we go to a committee and we voice our opinion.

And so we have all these avenues. These things lead to conflict. And conflict in every church, I think it shows that that church, and each and every church that exists, needs to grow in some capacity. So it's nothing wrong with conflict. The thing about it is, if we don't deal with conflict in a healthy manner, then what can happen is this conflict can over time produce roots of bitterness and deep conflict and deep wounds within people, and then you have people leaving the church because of this, that, or the other thing. But Jesus in Matthew chapter 18, he told us how to deal with conflict. And so we're going to look at that particular verse of scripture from the sense of what someone else might say if you give these particular verses of scripture to them, how they might respond and what they might say. Because all of us, we have a tendency sometimes to say, well, you know, what you're saying is the word of God, you know, it's right, but.

And so we always have that but in there because we want to ensure that perhaps what we hold to is true is going to be heard by everyone. So this is what Jesus said in Matthew 18. He said, if your brother sins against you, go tell him, now notice the next word, his fault between you and him alone. So you go to that particular brother and you tell that brother how you have hurt me now again.

So we're going to look at this from the standpoint of the person who is speaking and who will the person who receives this. Now the person who receives this is they, if they go to the person and they say, what do you mean your fault? This is not my fault. It's your fault.

So now you have this your fault, my fault situation. But see what Jesus is saying here is that if this individual is a brother in Christ or sister in Christ, and they indeed want to reconcile whatever it is a person think that they've done to another person, then you want to get that on the table and talk about it. I remember a church member coming to me some years ago and saying that this sister wouldn't talk to her.

And so I asked her why. And she said, well, I don't know why, because I felt like I didn't do anything wrong to her. Now again, see she was speaking from the standpoint that she believes she didn't do anything wrong, but the sister actually came and told her some of the things that she said that may have hurt her. So see, you have a situation where a person who comes and say, I have this fault against you and you hurt me, they're going to come back and say, well, you misunderstood what I was saying.

You didn't quite get what I meant when I said what I said. So see, you have this going back and forth. But again, Jesus is saying here that if a brother is truly open to the Spirit of God and want to reconcile, then if you come and say this thing hurt me that you said or did, then that brother is going to be open to say, oh, however you receive whatever it is that I said towards you, then I apologize, even though you may not remember or even though you think you didn't do anything to that person.

A person was hurt nonetheless. And see, this, I think in turn, tells the strength and the character and the stability, Christian stability of that brother who receives what the brother says, who comes to them and say that I have a fault against you. And this is something that we need to reconcile before we can continue. So Jesus is saying here that you have to be open to everything someone else says, because we can't remember everything we did to someone. We can't even remember what we said to someone. We can't even remember what we ate a week or two ago.

So let alone all of these things. You know, it just reminds me when a person gets on the stand and testifies in a court of law and the trial may start two years after the incident happened. And so now you're trying to remember two years ago what happened. And you may be unsure of all of the facts that was stated. This is why sometimes the police interview you or you take what's known as depositions, you know, to get get these things out and get them on paper. So there can be a recollection when it comes down to the prosecutor prosecuting the case or the defense attorney using some of these things. That's what's said during that deposition period to defend his or her client.

So you have things like this that go about in the church. But we want to make sure that if a person does not remember what they said toward a certain individual, it does not mean that you did not hurt them by what you say. So again, you totally might be innocent of anything that the person believes that you say it or did, but receive it and say, I apologize in the name of Jesus, even though I don't know, or even though I cannot remember what was stated. I just want to apologize and come to you and be that brother who is a champion for faith and a champion for the word of God and do what is right in the sight of God. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're bowing down to someone. But what it means is that it shows that you are a strong brother or sister who is willing to lay aside anything that you may have said or anything that you may have done and it may have been received incorrectly.

So do that and you'll be a doer of the word. He goes on to say, if he hears you and if that brother hears you, you have gained your brother. In other words, the reconciliation process has came about that brother has received what you had to say. But see, Jesus leaves this open to say, if he heard you, meaning that if he received what you said and if he received what you said, then you've gained your brother because he is open to reconcile whatever it is you think he did or if he actually did that and remember that he did it, you're in that reconciling process and it doesn't have to go any further than that. And see, this is what I like about the word of God, that it just opens up our understanding and gives us everything we need. We're coming up on a break right now, but when we come back, we're going to continue talking about this reconciliation process. And if a person is hurt in the church, what they should do.

We'll be right back after this. Talking and walking Christian men's ministry would like to invite you to our monthly men's breakfast held every first, third and fifth Friday of each month. You enjoy fun fellowship in the word of God. As we break bread together, the meetings are held at first Christian church 1130 North Main Street, Kernsville, North Carolina.

We start promptly at 6 30 AM and have a hard stop at 8 o'clock AM. Come join your hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr. What praise everybody. We're back talking about this thing that hurt Christians in the church and what we should do as born again believers that God has given us a process to follow. And if we follow the process in which he's given us that we can never fail, we can never fail God because we're being obedient to his word and never failed each other because we come into that reconciliation period that we are receiving what God has to say. Now we're continuing because in verse 16 he says, but if he will not hear, so see either he's going to hear even though you can't remember what you say it or if he received it wrongly, it's okay. Just let God bless you to confess, be open to the spirit of God and go from there and you will gain his trust. He will gain your trust. The reconciliation process will be in effect and you can go forward and let the will of God be done. See the other thing here I think is that you also keep this amongst yourself and Jesus is saying, if you can handle this privately, then go ahead and handle it privately between the two of you.

But because he said, if he will not hear, then Christ knows that there's going to be some people who simply says, I don't know what you're talking about or you receive what I said incorrectly or it's not my fault, it's your fault for doing what you did, which caused me to respond the way I did. So, but he says, okay, if that doesn't work, then take two or three people with you to witness every word that is said between you so that you can perhaps have an arbitrator. You know, an arbitrator or someone when you have two parties who simply can't come to an agreement on anything, if they have a written agreement or a verbal agreement and they can't come to an understanding as to who should do what, even though the agreement is in place, then you have this arbitrator. And what they do is they come in and they say, okay, let's look at the facts. Let's look at the agreement.

Let's look at what the agreement says that both of you obviously agreed to and let's go through it step by step. And those things that were stated after the agreement signed to show either the person who initially established the agreement didn't honor the terms of the agreement or if the individual who did not initiate the agreement but signed the agreement, they misunderstood the language of the agreement. And see, this is where we come into issues and they always occur in every aspect of life. They always occur that misunderstanding, which leads to a mischaracterization of justice. So if you're trying to come to a point to where you establish yourself and say, okay, I'm established.

It took me this, this and this amount of time to get to where I am today. And now all of a sudden you want to ruin it to me by damaging my character and we had this agreement together. Well, see, this is why witnesses have to be present to say, this is what was said. This is what you agreed on.

This is what was stated, et cetera, et cetera. So if they have to go take this to a judge and let someone outside of the church handle this, then you know, you, you're going to suffer whatever consequences that that particular judge is going to lean on you. All of this is what Jesus saying should be happening with in the confinements of the church that we should not have to go outside the church in order to deal with internal church conflicts.

We should not have to. That does not say that we won't have to, but we should not have to because Jesus Christ has laid the grounds for us to establish and render all of what we say by the mouth of two or three witnesses. And then he says, if he still refuses to hear the witnesses or to agree with the arbitrator. Now you can have an arbitrator within the church. You don't have to have had some type of outside person comes in that arbitrator is really not a judge in a sense. They're only looking at the terms of what you agreed upon. And if a person did not hold to their agreement, whatever it was, then of course the outside judge, the one outside the church, they'll say, well, this is simply a breach of contract. Well, the arbitrator can say the same thing.

The arbitrator can say, you know, if you do take this beyond what I'm telling you here today, then that's what the judge is going to tell you, that you've breached your agreement if the individual actually done that. And again, of course I'm using this as an example, mind you, that there's all kinds of other issues that can go on in the church that we need to come to an agreement on. So this is just an example I'm using that if you have an agreement between two people and then one says one thing, the other person says another thing, then you go to the church, you go to that individual, tell them your issue. If, if they don't listen, take two or three witnesses. And then he says further, if that person doesn't listen, then you take it to the church body, take it to them and let the church hear it. So now you've gone from having an, an agreement or disagreement, if you will, between the two of you that should have been handled on a one-to-one basis.

Now it's been moved to two or three witnesses. And so one or both of you still doesn't agree with the two or three witnesses. So now, you know, your, everything that you stated in reference to the agreement is now open to the church body. Now there are several ways in which churches have interpreted this particular passage.

I've heard, well, I'm just going to give you a couple, but I've heard more than a couple, but I'll give you these two. One, I've heard it interpret that he, he or she should come before the entire body of the church and to talk about whatever issues that either one or both of them have with respect to what they've heard or how a person have hurt them. I've also heard it stated that they should take it to the church body or committee, not necessarily the whole body, but a committee within the leadership, you know, pastor, deacon board, the elders of the church, you take it to them and let them hear the matter and make a determination. If a person still doesn't want to hear whatever the church decides, then he is to be treated according to the word of God here, like a heathen and a tax collector. What, what Jesus is saying here is that if you do things according to the scripture and you're open to the scripture to receive whatever the scripture has to say, if you are a brother or sister in the Lord, and you believe what the word of God says, and you want to truly reconcile those things that you want to reconcile, then go according to this process.

And the process is foolproof. What makes this process not foolproof is when either one or the other person who made that agreement or that have done something to another person that that person disagrees with. So now you have all of this animosity between these individuals and as long as they are members within that church, they may not go on speaking terms for months or even years. I've seen that happen within the church. And it divides the church because you have a brother or sister there talk to this group of people and then the other brother or sister talk to that group of people.

And so about the issue, and now instead of them having the matter settled in private between the two of them or between two or three witnesses or even the church elders and leadership of the body, now you have individuals all throughout the church making their own assumptions about what you could have did differently or what the other person could have done different. So see, all of this brings about chaos and confusion. And of course, that's what the enemy wants.

He wants chaos and confusion. Jesus goes on to say, assuredly I say unto you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loose in heaven. And of course, this has to do with the process in which God have laid out. When God lay out a process on how to deal with sin, he's saying that if you bind something on earth as you do it in accordance with the word of God, then that thing will be bound because it's already bound in heaven. On the other side of that, if you loose that thing, in other words, if you release a person of some sinful act because the church body, the deacons and the elders and the pastor have come to an agreement on the matter, then it's already done. But see, they can't do that on their own accord or their own power. They have to do it with the authority that Jesus Christ has given them based on what the word of God states. Jesus is saying it has to be done in this process.

Get together, resolve the matter between the two of you. If you can't, bring two or three witnesses. If you can't resolve it, then take it to the church body. And if they still won't come to an agreement, then you treat the individual as a heathen or a tax collector. And of course, heathen tax collector, it's the sense of how individuals view them as a person who, you know, used their authority in a way that was unconventional. So, and a heathen basically is someone who simply don't want to obey the truth, don't want to follow the truth. If you have a person who say that they are a born again believer in Jesus Christ and they don't want to come to an agreement because or follow the process in which God laid out on what to do, that's how the individual should be treated. That's not to say that they are a heathen or they are a tax collector.

Jesus is saying you would treat them as though they were a heathen or as a tax collector because they're saying one thing and they're not doing another thing. And see, this is some pretty important teaching because I think what it does is this opens us up to know that if a person decides that they're going to leave a particular body, then you have to wonder were they ever born again or were they ever in line with the body to begin with. These are questions we have to ask ourselves, you know, because if you're going to walk with a particular person or a group of people and you're going to get those things out, then praise God, let it be done so. We are coming to the end of the broadcast, but we want to thank God for you. Thank you for all of the, again, emails, comments, and things that you have said in reference to the ministry. We love you and we will see you on next time.

God bless you. As we conclude today's show, TAWCMN, Talking and Walking Christian Men's Ministry are building a community of men to be servant leaders in their home, communities, churches, and work environment. Check us out on our website for upcoming events and regular scheduled meetings. Don't forget to send us an email for topics that you would like us to visit in the future. Thank you for joining us today on Man Talk. Visit us at tawcmn.com.