Welcome to Man Talk, a ministry sponsored by TAWCMM, Talking and Walking Christian Men's Ministry, where we're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination and to point men to their God-assigned roles. Now here's your hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr. Here we go again, Roy, with another Man Talk broadcast. And it is so good that our listeners have tuned in and, you know, we're here and we're ready to continue what we talked about last week. And it's good we're tuned in too, Will. Well, if we're not tuned in, then nobody else is going to be tuned in. This is for sure. So what we're going to continue to talk about is individuals who look for justifications in looking at and through the Bible, making an attempt to excuse some of the things that they're doing, which the Bible explicitly says we shouldn't.
So we're going to continue to tackle that. And so one example of what we were talking about is that there was so much symbolism and metaphors and anthropomorphisms and all this that the Bible speaks about. One such example is John chapter 6. So if we go over there to John chapter 6, and we look at what Jesus was saying, Jesus said, most assuredly, I say unto you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
Now, if you're not saved, if you don't have an understanding on Bible interpretation and things like that, it's easy for you to say, OK, and the disciples probably thought the same thing. Christ, wait a minute, are you a cannibal? You're asking us to eat flesh and drink blood?
What do you say to that, Roy? Well this goes back to what the last show was talking about. The way the words and the parables and the various things that God speaks through, either through Jesus or some of the other authors, is that this is a prime example. What was representative of the flesh?
He's talking about you have to die with him, right? You actually have to take in the bread would represent his flesh, but you weren't literally eating his flesh, and the juice or the wine was to represent his blood. So that you consumed the symbolism, as you've talked about before, as part of the ceremony of honoring the commitment to Christ. And it also shows that if a person is abiding in Christ when you do this, so you're doing this and you're not actually taking the flesh of the Lord Jesus, nor drinking the blood, although there are some religions out there who do this, and we're not going to go into any detail on that, who says that when you take the communion table, that you're actually eating the flesh of the Lord Jesus and drinking the blood, the actual blood of the Lord Jesus. So they're not looking at the two as being symbols, they're looking at it as being actual.
So you're actually eating this. So how can I actually eat the flesh of Jesus when I'm eating a wafer? You know, how can I actually drink the blood of Jesus if I'm drinking juice or a form of diluted wine? So again, I think when we look at these things and we don't understand scripture interpretation, Roy, it's easy for us to make an assumption on things.
Well and that's, we know what they say about assumptions that tend to be wrong in most cases and people do that based on emotion at times. So Will, I guess what would you say to the person who's sitting out there listening and say, well, what's the purpose of communion since we're on communion? What is the purpose of communion, Will? It's to do exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ said do is you're honoring him in his death and his burial and in his resurrection.
So he said how often you do this, if you do it once a month, once a quarter, once a year, how often you do it, do it in remembrance of me. But when you also take it, he also says in Corinthians that what we need to do is to ensure that when we take it, we're not taking it in vain. So if we have unconfessed sin, I was getting ready to ask you about the unclean heart. We should not take communion and if we have ought against someone, we should not take communion until we cleanse our mind and our heart in the sense that we confess these things to the Lord and then we take it. Yeah, I'm glad you touched on that, Will, because oftentimes we do communion every Sunday and I wonder, often wonder, if people really haven't cleared their hearts, I guess is what I'm trying to say, before they take communion because you know, week in, week out, we all have challenges, we all have struggles, we all have breakdowns where we may have sinned against someone or made some action that certainly was not godly that we need to make sure we clear before we take communion.
So thank you for sharing that, Will. Well, let's go back to that scripture in John, I believe it's 56 here. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I lived because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.
He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. So and of course, see, his words is spirit and his words are life. So he's saying if you consume, appropriate the things that I'm saying, these things are going to bring life to you and you're not going to eat of some temporary substance and then an hour or two later, you're going to want some more. But if you continue to hunger after the words that I am presenting to you that have been given to me from the Father, you will never go hungry, that your spirit will always be fed and as a result, and of course, you know the one that you feed the most is going to be the strongest. So if you feed the spirit, he's going to be the stronger one. If you feed the flesh, then the flesh is going to be the stronger one, which means that we're going to, our mindset is going to change and turn toward those things of the material.
Let's drive that home wheel. In order to feed the spirit, you need to be doing what? What are the things you need to be doing?
Well, I know, Roy, you know this, so I'm going to let you answer that question. You got to be praying, right? You've got to be studying and reading and absorbing and loading in the heart and the mind with the word. You've also got to be loving others to grow the spirit. Amen. So if you're doing those things, folks, then you're getting stronger.
And don't be distracted by the enemy, because guess what? Will and I have spoken on this many times in the past. Three times or less, reading the word a week is basically ineffective. Fair statement, Will, based on statistical studies.
Absolutely. I want to drive in that it does not create a life change in your day-to-day walk. Four or more days a week of time in the word does create a life change and does create a habit change, and it creates that stronger spiritual man or woman versus one who does not do that. So that's why I wanted to drive this home. We need to make sure you understand that.
And it's statistically been proven. Four more days a week of being in the word. It's a life-changing pattern.
Three days or less, it's basically ineffectual to your daily walk. And see, if we continue to look at that same particular passage, Roy, later down in verse number 61, Jesus, he knew what they were thinking. Because they said, this is a hard saying, Jesus, how can we eat the flesh and drink your blood?
We can't understand this, see. So that told Jesus that they didn't have an understanding and they needed more clarification because they were thinking naturally instead of spiritually. And this is what happens when an individual who is not born again and don't have spiritual discernment, they're attempting to self-interpret based on worldly knowledge. Which can't be done.
Absolutely. You have to have the Spirit of God within you to interpret the things of God. Well, this is interesting because in here, in the NIV version, they said the disciples were grumbling when Jesus realized that they were unsettled about this. And then, of course, further on down the scripture, I think it's 66, it says, from this time, many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. So why do you think that was, Will? Do you think it was because they just couldn't comprehend, they had not truly received him as the Messiah? Or was it just that it was truly a foreign language to them because of their lack of belief? Yeah, and I think it's the latter.
Because when you have an individual who don't have spiritual discernment or don't have the understanding in which Jesus was. Folks, we need to take a quick break here. We'll be right back to you in just a moment. But while we're taking a break, we want to just tell you about a few upcoming events. We've got an hour of prayer that'll be coming up in October, October 17th, Saturday, October 17th, in High Point, North Carolina.
That's open to all folks, men, women, children. It's going to be an hour of prayer. We want to make a very large stand in the community that we are chasing God and we want God to reign over our communities. So try to join us if you can in October. And then we've got family night here at First Christian, our host site, August the 27th on Saturday evening. We'll have a movie night, bounce tents for the children, refreshments, that sort of thing. So it is a community open night on that Saturday.
So try to join us at 637 o'clock on the 27th of August. All of this time, preaching and teaching the gospel, using natural illustrations to convey a spiritual meaning, all of this time now, they have been exposed to this. And so now you come to a point to where he goes a bit further in being descriptive in eating the flesh and drinking the blood because he wants you as an individual to become part of who he is because of his relationship with his father. So he wants the same relationship with us as he has with the father. And so with that understanding, now we can say, okay, now when Jesus talked to them and said, you know, I'm speaking to you in parables because it's for you to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of God in those who are outside, they don't have this opportunity because they haven't been with him.
They haven't been taught by him. And of course, when Jesus ascended, then the Holy Spirit came. So now the Holy Spirit teaches us the things of the spirit of God. But when he went on to talk about, he says in verse 63, he says, it is the spirit who gives life, the flesh profits nothing. So that was the dividing partition, if you will, between what he meant when he said eat my flesh and drink my blood. Here you are talking, thinking that I want you to eat my actual flesh. So that means that you're in the flesh. So if you eat my flesh and you're in the flesh, not only are you not going to profit anything by eating my flesh, but that's not what I mean. So you have this wide variety, I think, of understanding when it comes to people and it comes to the word of God. But the bottom line is this.
If you are in Christ and you are open to the Holy Spirit and you give God time, just like if you give your parents time, if you had exposed to your mom or dad, they taught us certain things. Now my mother actually taught me how to make a biscuit, but Roy, I still can't make a biscuit today. I mean, I tried, my biscuits always come out like, you can use them as projectiles, you know. They come out as true pucks. Exactly.
True pucks. So the point is, is that we learn from our natural parents because we're around them. And if we're born again and the Spirit dwells within us, then we should give God that same amount of time, or more so, depending on our yearning and desire for Him.
Yeah, that's a good point, Will. When we talk about giving more time, I think it's one of those things that's you're whetting your appetite as you go back to the four days a week piece that we were just talking about. Prior to this last little bit of conversation, but if you whet your appetite, folks, by studying and praying and ask God to open it, and always pray before you start reading, let's be clear about that, always pray before you start reading, God will basically create a bigger appetite in your heart as you get deeper in the Word. Make sure you're attempting to do that, that four days a week, and just say, hey, I'm going to try this for the next 60 days, four days a week, and see what the difference is in my life, and how He's going to reveal things to you that you never thought you could see or understand.
It's going to be a really, really great experience for you. Oh, absolutely. And another example, Roy, that I wrote down here is when people read the Scripture and they don't make that determination, as we talked about in last week's show, between descriptive and prescriptive language, that can also roll over into things that they should be looking at when it comes to Scripture, but they're not because, number one, if they're not born again, they're blind to the truth. And then if they do read it and they're not born again, then they're looking at the interpretation from the understanding of the world.
So head knowledge instead of heart knowledge. But another example that I think was used in the article that I sent you is, people say, okay, here's a contradiction of Scripture. In John chapter 20, you know, verses 1 through 10, when it says that Peter and the disciple whom Jesus loved, and we know that that to be John, the disciple whom Jesus loved. So you have Peter and John running to the tomb when the women came to the tomb to anoint the body of Jesus. Now, in Luke chapter 24, verse number 12, it says that Peter ran to the tomb.
Doesn't talk about the other disciple. So people have a tendency to come, they look at this and they say, okay, here you go, you got a contradiction. Well, let me just say this, when you put individuals in a lineup and you say to them, describe for me what you saw when a individual came into a restaurant and robbed this restaurant and you was one of the patrons, I want you to describe to me what you saw. Well, I saw a blue steel revolver and a man who was tall and he had a hood on and I can't tell, I couldn't tell what color he was. Okay, what about you?
Well, I think he had a 45 and he was a lot shorter and I think he had dreadlocks, but I'm not particularly sure. You see where I'm going with this. So what you do is based on the individual sighting or what people saw that doesn't necessarily say that it's a contradiction, you're just getting the story. Yeah, so Will, when you're seeing something that happens, crime scenes are a prime example, just like you just mentioned, different perspectives are going to come in.
That doesn't mean either story is wrong. It just means that each person has seen a different view. So those details all paired together make the picture, right? If you think of, you've got multiple artists in the illustration that make the picture. None's either any less accurate than the other.
Absolutely. And that brings us to this area of anthropomorphism or taking things that are, or should I say, describing human form to something that is not human. For example, we say God walked through on the waters or God's hands hold us. So again, these are made known so that we, as the reader of God's word, can have an understanding of what is being said in reference to the word of God. So when we say God squeezed or God held or God walked, we're not talking about literal hands and literal feet because God is a spirit. And of course, in the gospels it says that if we're going to worship him, we're going to worship him in spirit and in truth. We're not going to worship him as we do a man. And of course, some individuals do worship men. So we have to have the understanding between what we are ascribing to men and what we're ascribing to God.
And we can get really, really confused. Another example, Roy, is symbolism in the word of God. And let me use a mathematical example. So we can say something like if X equals two plus one, then you have this.
So X has taken on the symbol of two plus one. So when we look at the scripture, there are examples in there where you have symbols and of course the book of Revelation is full of that, where you have symbols and these symbols are represented as some things. And of course, we can spend 2,000 hours talking about the amount of symbols that's in the book of Revelation, but it's all through there as examples. And then of course, you have metaphors and these are phrases that which you look at a phrase and you're saying something literal. And an example to this is when Jesus said, I am the true vine. So when you look at what a vine is and you look at the meaning and what a vine is used for, then you go back and you say, okay, Christ, how are you associating a vine with yourself? Well, if you don't have a vine, Roy, you don't have any grapes. So in the sense of using that vine, he's saying, I'm the one who is supplying life to you just like the vine is supplying life to the grapes. You have nothing, Roy? I've gone brain dead here. Oh my goodness. Hey, this is the first on the Man Talk, ladies and gentlemen, Roy has no words. Yes.
No. Well, the lifeline is divine, right? I mean, that's such a key illustration for us in our own walks, Will. For me personally, as we talk through these things, I'm always trying to awaken my heart to the things that I need to be doing and need to be focused on.
And one of those is making sure that we're tying in with other believers and that vine and the grapes and the fruit of those touch points I think are so important for me personally. And yep, you've done a great job today, Will. Well, see, Roy, it's just like we know how awesome God is because how can God take a man who is fallible and use him to write something that is infallible? And so that tells you the awesomeness, the greatness of God is he can take a crooked stick and hit a straight lick. Amen. And I'm going back deep in the South now, Roy.
Yeah, a crooked stick and a straight lick. So Roy, God is able to do so many great things and this is just one of the many that he could take man who is sinful, man who is, you know, have turned his back on God and use him to write his word and as a result, change the world. And the word cannot be challenged. We've been many, many people out there trying to prove it wrong, prove it inaccurate, prove the gaps in the story, but it all fits together. Absolutely, absolutely.
You cannot attempt to wash away something that is perfect. And that brings us to a great opportunity to plant a seed for our January Intensive. We've got Lee Strobel coming January 27th and 28th.
He sat out to prove the Bible wrong because his wife had become a believer and he thought she had joined some sort of cult, but we will tell you more about that upcoming event. January 27th and 28th, 2023 here in Kernersville, North Carolina. Several other speakers with him, Bishop Jackson, General Boykin, Jahan Burns. It's going to be a great weekend. This is for men and women on Friday night and all day on Saturday, or not all day, but from 9 to 2.30 on Saturday. So look forward to having you join us there. More information to follow, we'll be up on our website very soon for registration ticket purchases.
Well, as always, it was another great show, folks. We hope you're gaining something from this. Please use this information, share it with your brothers and sisters in Christ. Get the word out about the podcast and let us know if there's something you'd like for us to address on a particular session as we come moving forward. Amen.
Because God has a way of doing so many things and this is just one ministry of many. Amen. As we conclude today's show, TAWCMM, Talking and Walking Christian Men's Ministry, are building a community of men to be servant leaders in their home, communities, churches, and work environment. Check us out on our website for upcoming events and regular scheduled meetings. Don't forget to send us an email for topics that you would like us to visit in the future. Thank you for joining us today on Man Talk. Visit us at tawcmm.com.
