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Let's bring the living water to the world. This is Stu Epperson from the Truth Talk Podcast, connecting current events, pop culture, and theology. And we're so grateful for you that you've chosen the Truth Podcast Network. It's about to start in just a few seconds.
Enjoy it, and please share it around with all your friends. Thanks for listening, and thanks for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Man Talk, brought to you by TAWCMM, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where they're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination and challenging men to take their God-assigned role.
Here's our hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Welcome back to Man Talk Radio. Shout out to Keith. Keith, you've done a great job selecting our intro music and our outro. Thank you, brother. We really appreciate that. And he's our man behind the scenes.
He doesn't get a lot of credit, and we certainly give him a hard time on every opportunity we can just to pick at him. But hey, Will, it's great to see you. Folks, the topic today, if you haven't heard or read about it, Duke Divinity students a few weeks back held a service in one of the chapels, I believe it was, Will. But what was interesting for Will and I to see this article was that these particular students identify as the LGBTQ group, and this one lady opened up in the service calling God queer and referring to him as the queer one. And folks, this just shows you how far we've come in our society that now we've taken the holy, the holiest of holy, and we're trying to loop him into a lifestyle that we know that God's Word says he doesn't like or doesn't agree with, right?
No different than other sins. So it's like if we were to call God an adulterer or any other thing, it's we've taken the highest of high and we're pulling him into secular terminology and secular ways of believing. Yeah, and what Duke Divinity, I mean, this has been a very highly respectable university and the Divinity School in particular. And of course it's affiliated with the United Methodist Church. But the sad thing about it is when you have a service that they recognize as the great queer one. And so what they're attempting to do is they're attempting to redefine, number one, who God is and how anyone can be accepted by him regardless of who you are or what you believe.
And see, that's the deceitful part, I think, of what's happening here, Roy, because when our children go off to college, they're going to be exposed to these things. And when they are exposed to these things and all of a sudden you get two or three individuals who are well versed in the LGBTQ area and they are suggesting certain things that maybe a student has never heard before and they become so convincing of it, and that student could, we're not saying they do, but they could be looped in to this doctrine of belief and all of a sudden they find themselves rebelling or even denouncing the one true God. And that was one individual who was at the service. She said, yeah, I have always read about the great, and she made some other comments to who Jesus was as an accepting God before she became or choose to accept the lifestyle as LGBTQ. And so, but she said my eyes, quote unquote, were open when after she got into the lifestyle of LGBTQ and she said all of a sudden she began to see things differently. So what she wanted to do, Roy, was align, she wanted her values to align with the scripture. So she said, so in order for her to do that, you have to now redefine what the scripture says so that you can make it fit your viewpoint.
And that's what this one person did that was in the service. He said, if you look at the Genesis 32 and you look at the life of Jacob and how he wrestled with the man. I mean, so when I read what he said and then I read what the scripture said, of course, the two were like opposite poles, North pole and South pole. I mean, there was no unity or harmony within what he was saying and how that verse of scripture read versus actually what God was saying.
Right. So going to scripture, Will, if you just take what this young lady, how she introduced, God is queer. And then the great queer one is what she said. So we, we know the Bible to be true. We believe the Bible in the end.
We know it is, it is the inspired word of God by God. So in the Bible, he tells us that he detests this, that it's, it's a sin and as many other things are sin. So then to say, God is of sin, makes God, you're mocking God, like you and I talked about before the show, you're mocking God. And then you're asked, you're actually saying that God is, is now capable of sin and he's not capable of sin.
So, so, and that's, that's exactly right. So my question to them would be, if you're serving God, then who is your savior? If you're, if you're redefining God as who you are, right. And, and if he's a sinful God, which they're saying he is, that's what by calling him that they are right.
Sinful God, then who is your savior? Then they're lost. Yeah, exactly. Because it doesn't make sense. That's what it's illogical.
And for these are master students that are in the middle of this conversation, you know, and, and that's, what's so difficult about it. And just to know how God feels about sin in general and to sit here and say that God is of sin and he is, that's, that's not true folks. That's just, it's, it's scary to think about the consequences of, of, of testing our God and mocking our God, like Will and I were talking before the show in Galatians 6, 7.
He will not be mocked folks. And that's what you have to sit here and listen to. But then also, I think this goes back to being a voice. Do we just let it pass by as a body of believers? Or do we say, stand up and talk to our friends and family, say, look, this is the kind of stuff that's going on in our higher levels of institution, not just a generic school, not just a regular liberal arts college or just a normal university. We're talking about the divinity school, which you would assume one would normally assume, right? By being at divinity school that they're chasing God at the level that beyond the normal person and exactly what the Bible would want them to do and learn. But here, as we can see, there's being, there's false doctrine being, being taught.
And in 2 Timothy chapter two, I want to read this verse as Paul was writing to young Timothy, he says, but shun profane and idle babbling for they will not, for they will increase to more ungodliness. That's what we see. We see more ungodliness taking place in a university system that's supposed to be upholding God. And he says, and their message will spread like cancer. Their message. See, and that's what's happening, Roy.
I mean, it's right here. 2 Corinthians, I mean, 2 Timothy chapter two and verse 17, their message will spread like cancer. This is what's happening. Listener, this is what your child that's gone off to school, they're going to be subject to doctrines like this. It may not be this doctrine.
It may be some other doctrine, but what it, what it's doing is it's spreading about and it's causing the, the students and children who are not rooted and grounded in the word of God to be persuaded to go in a different way. And then he goes on to say here that he says their message is like a cancer. And then he, he mentions Hymenaeus and Philetus, that he said that they are of that sort because what they were saying is that they were saying that the resurrection is already passed and they overthrew the faith of some. So these two individuals, Paul is saying that what they did is they were saying the resurrection has already come.
Sorry, you all missed it. So we might as well just be prepared for what's ever next. And God is writing Timothy saying, no, the resurrection hasn't passed. These individuals are, are preaching and speaking heresy. And so what they're doing is they're, what they're preaching and teaching is affecting the faith of other people.
Roy, that's exactly what we see happening. Yes. You know, and scripture tells us we're not supposed to cause our brother to stumble, right? So exactly. And you would think that divinity students would be more tuned into what God would want them to be sharing with others rather than secular beliefs. That's what's so astounding about this. And I don't know that the school came out with any position on this at all.
And I don't know that this was, I think it was a gathering of students, right, that was at this and supporters of this that were actually in this particular session. So, but folks, this is what's going on in our colleges and this is what's going on in today's world. And that's why time and time again, we indicate and share with you that you really need to be in the word. You need to be grounded in the word.
You need to be leading your families in the word so that when these things come up, they have a position and there's, they are grounded in their debate or discussion with those folks that are trying to teach false doctrine about our God. And see, he goes on in verse 19, he says, nevertheless, the solid foundation of God stands having this seal, the Lord knows who those who are his and let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity. So this is what the word of God is saying to those students who were having that service to the queer one, depart from iniquity. God abhors sin. He hates it. And so to put God as a sinful God is heresy.
It's an abomination to his name. So what we're going to do as believers in Jesus Christ, well, we got to pray for him. Amen. And that's the key folks. You don't have to argue. You don't have to get into those kinds of discussions.
You just need to pray for him. We'll be right back with a quick break coming up. It all starts at 6.30 and they have a hard stop at 8 o'clock. First time visitors eat for free. Join your hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy.
Well, welcome back to Man Talk Radio. Will, as we were going to break, you were talking about iniquity and I wanted to look that up just to see what Webster's definition was just as it related to spiritual matters. So the word iniquity means gross injustice, wickedness, or sin.
Gross injustice and wickedness we are hearing about a lot more these days, but few mention the word anymore. The Bible says that through one man, Adam, sin entered the world. So there you go.
Perfect, perfect lead in Will into this. So folks, we're not judging people. We're here to tell you that our word of God is the word of God and that people should not.
And if you receive it as judgment, it's the word that's judging you, not us. Exactly, not us. So that's not our place. We love all people. We want to make that very clear. And that's important that you love people and let them see the love of God through you in these discussions because it's inevitable. You're going to have discussions and society would have us to believe that to have a different opinion, a different opinion than someone who's living whatever or doing whatever means that we hate them. We don't.
That's not the case at all. It's just our Bible tells us how we're supposed to live, what God's expectations are of us as followers of Christ and how he feels about sin. And if a person attempts to redefine what God has said, then God tells us in the book of Revelation, the 22nd chapter, the very last verse, he says that if you add anything to this word, then God is going to add to you the plagues which are written, that are written in this book. And if you take anything away from this, he said that he's going to blot you out and take your name out of the book of life, which is the Lamb's book of life in heaven. Roy, I want to read this, keep reading because 2 Timothy is calling to me right now. And it says in verse 23, it says, but avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. Now, see, some people might say, well, if you know that what these students did in this service was wrong, well, why are you talking about it on man talk?
Well, for the simple reason is that if we don't talk about it and then someone's child get pulled in, then they may come back and say, well, why didn't you talk about it? So we want to make sure that we mention these things because our children that we're sending to the colleges, that we're sending to the divinity schools, and we're hoping and praying that they're getting that necessary education that they need in order to carry the gospel forward. You know, Roy, when I was in seminary, and I always make a joke about this when we are in the Friday morning breakfast, I always say seminary, I'm being cemetery. But, you know, I had a professor in there and he taught Old Testament studies. His name was, I couldn't pronounce his name, but translated in English, it was Alfred. So his name was Alfred Alawalia. And Dr. Alawalia was, he was a very, very, he was Pakistani. And he became born again. And Dr. Alawalia was a great influence because he told us the background that he had to endure while living in the house, believing and, you know, in Muslim and he was in that Muhammad and that doctrine.
And he said, growing up that way, and it was very difficult to break away. And basically, to make a long story short, Dr. Alawalia said, he said, you know, students, when you leave here, it's going to be your greatest trial. And he said that when, when the trials start coming, that's going to determine who you are.
Because trials will pull you towards God, or they'll push you away from God, you know, how strong you are. And that's the basically the message he was saying, you know, and Dr. Alawalia passed in, in 2012. But, you know, we all got messages from the place where he ended up retiring. And he, he wanted, in fact, he told his wife, he said, in my passing, wherever you can get the message to my students to say it was a blessing for me to teach you the Word of God, and how he hoped and prayed that the Word of God would just be rooted and grounded in our heart, and we'll take it forward, regardless of what obstacle we have to overcome. And that was so encouraging to me, you know, I mean, we were sad that he had passed on, but we knew that he had passed on in Jesus Christ.
Amen. And, and it was just a blessing to us to hear that. One of the other things he said, because Dr. Alawalia, he was, you know, he was Pakistani, he spoke four different languages, his wife was French, he had a rainbow coalition family, because he had three children of his own, and he adopted three others from different countries. So he was like the rainbow coalition. And when he, I remember the time that he brought his family in, and he put them on, put them on the, of course, back then, they only had, like, Skype, you know, some of the old, old things. And, and we saw his family, we saw, we saw his family, and it just, it was just a blessing, you know, to, to see how happy they were.
And then he talked about how there were sad times in his life, too, how, you know, that his father had disowned him, because he had gotten away from the Muslim faith, and he was not welcome to come back home after he found out he was Christian. So all of these things, and I bring that up again, because all of these things, that if we stand firm on the gospel, then God is going to reward us, not only in this life, and when I say reward, I'm not talking about silver and gold and all these other things, but reward you with strength and endurance to be able to overcome. Amen. Folks, part of this conversation is just, where do you stand in terms of standing on the gospel?
Are you that person that can quote scripture back when people start talking Fox doctrine about anything, whatever topic you want to choose? And that's the thing that Will and I speak to you quite regularly about is your quiet time with God and your time in the Word. And studies show if you'll spend four more days in the Word, listening to the Word, studying the Word, that it'll have a major impact in your life.
Below four days, it's a hit and miss. You just don't, you don't gain as much. You can't get the momentum. And we just encourage you tonight and today, Lord, just to speak into these people's lives and just to put a burden on their hearts about reading your Word more and just walking with you, Father, and just so that they're prepared to battle these things that are going on in our country with this Fox doctrine, people that are turning from God and just don't and trying to convince others that God, that you don't exist. We just pray, Lord, that you'll, that you'll really speak into these individuals.
You know, Roy, and he goes on to talk about, he said that a servant when, and again, this is in 2 Timothy 2, he says that a servant of the Lord must not quarrel or argue, but be gentle to all, able to teach, be patient, humility, correcting those who are in opposition. So that's what we're doing when we talk about the issues that we're facing and have been displayed in this prestigious Duke University school and how they are demeaning the name of the Lord, the Word of the Lord, who God is and who he stands for. And we're going to stand for the truth. Amen.
And we're not going to argue. We're just going to present you, just like we're doing here, the Word of the living God. He says, he goes on to say, if God perhaps, and I love this, if God will perhaps grant them repentance so that they may know the truth. This is why we're praying for you, Duke Divinity students who had the service. This is why we're praying. This is why we love God and we love you. And it's because God loved us.
We're able to love you. And so we want to give you the gospel. And then he goes on the last verse, he says that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captivity or captive by him to do his will.
You're captive, students who were in this service, you're captive. And that's what the Word of God is saying. This is what we want to give to you.
We love you. This is why we want to give you the truth. And the truth of the gospel will stand. And even if some don't believe the gospel or attempts to redefine what the gospel says, it doesn't change what God meant in his word.
And we see that happen in royal all around the country. Well, we're in this world, but we're not of this world. And that's what they're trying to do is make the Bible, make God of this world, instead of being the creator of the world. And as we mentioned earlier, and through this whole journey is that you cannot mock God, no matter what the topic is. If God has a position on it, and you're going against that position and claiming to be a follower of Christ, then you're mocking God.
That's exactly right, Roy. And if you sow, because that verse goes on to say, whatever a man sow, he shall reap the same what he sow. So we heard the old expression, you reap what you sow. Well, that came from the scripture. Galatians 6.7. If you sow godliness, you sow peace, you sow humility, that's what you're going to reap. If you sow envy, if you sow strife, if you sow division, if you sow redefinition of the scriptures, then that's what you're going to reap. And that you need, folks, you need to fear God, a healthy fear and loving fear of our Lord and Savior and of God. It's just, if you don't, and you think that he's going to let you go out here and teach false doctrine and claim to be a follower of Christ, the wrath will come. And what that looks like, only God knows.
And I don't want to be on the receiving end of that conversation. Amen. I'm reminded of Ecclesiastes, I believe, Roy, it's either chapter 12 or 13, I forget which, but it's the last verse in that chapter that God blessed Solomon to see after he went through all of what he went through. He concluded by saying, the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments. For this is the whole duty of man. This is what you have to do. Roy, open, closes out with prayer.
Yeah. Father, we just thank you for this time together. And Lord, we just ask that you touch our listeners hearts, that you pluck that heart string, Father, that just wakes them up.
They start studying your word more regularly. They start chasing you, Father. And they're not, they're not ashamed to share your gospel, Lord. And that's what we just ask over each of them. Lord, be with these, be with these families that we lost last week, Lord, and they lost the children.
We just ask that you're with them. It's in your son's holy name that we love you and praise you. Amen. Amen. We thank you. We thank you, listener.
Keep listening. We have a lot more that God has placed on our heart. And as we come forward with the word, we want to ensure you that we're here for you because God has called myself and Roy to do what we're doing. Amen.
We thank God, and until next week, praise Him. As we wrap up today's show, be assured that TAWCMM, Talking and Walking Christian Men's Ministry, is building a community of men that are Christ followers with the desire to be servant leaders in their homes, communities, churches, and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings. Drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on Man Talk today. Visit us at www.tawcmm.com. Men walking the talk. This is the Truth Network.
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