Pandemic Pause Part 1

This is Hans Schile from the Finishing Well Podcast.

On Finishing Well, we help you make godly choices about Medicare, long-term care, and your money. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just seconds. Enjoy it.

Share it. But most of all, thank you for listening and choosing the Truth Podcast Network. Welcome to Man Talk, brought to you by TAWCMN, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where they're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination, and challenging men to take their God-assigned role. Here's our hosts Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Welcome to Man Talk Radio.

This is Roy Jones. I'm the white guy, and we've got Dwayne Kennedy joining us today from Bridging the Gap. Amen. Amen.

And also, Ken Kline, pastor of Christ Wesleyan Church in Greensboro, North Carolina. Ken, welcome back. Dwayne, welcome back. Thank you. Amen. Amen. It's nice to be here. It's been good to have both of you guys back.

You've both been on before. So folks, this is going to be a true conversation today, and we're just going to talk for the next two shows about what's going on in our society, how it's impacting pastors, how it's impacting us as men. And we know that many people are experiencing a lot of different emotions, a lot of different effects as a result of what's happened with the pandemic, the social unrest, the political environment.

So we're not getting into all the politics and all that stuff. We're just going to talk about what it's doing to us as a spiritual warrior and how we need to combat that and get out of the funk. And as we've been coining the phrase over the last couple of days, we need to start leading, not lagging in our walk with Christ. Amen? Amen.

That's good. So hey, let's just open it up. Ken, why don't we start with you, just as you're mentoring and pastoring over church right now. You tell the audience, and we'd like to just hear and talk through, you know, what has been your greatest learning over the last 12 months and what has been one of the most difficult parts of the last 12 months?

Oh, man, good question. Learning, I'm learning how, I think, especially in the last month, there was a lot of just dealing with it last year, dealing with it as it came to you. But now that we're almost a year in and results are there, and they're real results on our churches, now we're having to deal with our own kind of perspectives and feelings of saying, wow, you know, I lost half my church. I lost this ministry, this ministry, this ministry.

Dead and wild, I've lost half my staff. And, you know, what do I do with that? And so one of the things today, even I just caught myself, there's a real effort, this is one of the things I'm learning, there has to be this concentrated, intentional effort to any time you start wondering what I've lost, you need to stop right there, kind of cancel that whole thing and say, but what do I have? What do I have in front of me?

What work do I have to do? Who are these people that I need to love? Who are these people that I still have that are looking to me for hope?

Who are these people that I've been pouring into and discipling? And it helps to get your mind off of not what you've lost this last year, but what you have. And that's a process that I think almost has to be daily. And I will also say this, I'm also aware of the fact, I think I talked to you a little bit about it, Roy, it's very easy to feel like you're alone and you're the only one that's experiencing it. But I know there are probably tens of thousands of pastors in our country that are dealing with a lot of the same feelings and a lot of the same questions. And we talked about Elijah feeling pretty beat up and worn out and lonely up on that mountain and having that conversation with God. And then he got just kind of spewed out there, he said, now I'm the only one left.

And that wasn't true. God has prepared, was preparing 7,000 like him to be voices too. But I do think that one of the things we're learning is we're not alone.

And now we're all having to kind of learn and figure out together what does this season look like and what are we going to do about it? That's good, Pastor. Duane, how about you over the last 12 months? And of course, Duane and I were talking a little bit before the show started. He's got a big smile on his face. Can you be one of the minorities that relates to his impact or what's impacted him over the last 12 months?

Well, you know, it's funny, Roy. First of all, when the lockdown kicked in in 2020, you know, you guys came over to where I was at. See, because I was already living that type of life, isolated life. I would go and do what I have to do, ministry and out in the streets and all that stuff. But I was spending a lot of time in prayer, at home and relaxing. You know, I mean, I had my people come over and I go visit my family and things like that. But you guys came over to where I was at.

So I was, you know, I was already in a shut down mode. But what I seen through this whole situation for me, it was the Lord pulling chairs away from the table. Because I seen through all this, I seen a lot of Christians that I held in great standards that they're thinking, it's more or less like they didn't even have the same values as Christ did.

They didn't have the same morals as Christ did. See, so it's like, well, you know what the Bible says, you know, and how we should do and react. So I think it was all about a great pulling away chairs from the table.

That's what it stood out for me. And me myself, you know, of course, I pray for folks and I pray for encouragement and I encourage people. But this is an individual walk. It is.

It is an individual relationship. And we have to perfect our relationship with Christ. And don't get me wrong, I know some people are really experience hardship and the Bible prepares us for that. We know it's going to come.

It does. But where I'm at now, I look at scripture and I see the Book of Revelation and I look at the seventh church. The seventh church, it represents, well, it's the lukewarm church. And the lukewarm church, I seen that a lot. It's a lot of lukewarm Christians that's not following Christ to the letter.

And I'm not talking about, I'm just talking about principles, you know. So I've seen it as a great falling away. The scripture that he used, I love that scripture about Elijah because, you know, the Bible says that all the noise. He said it was a great wind, it was a great fire, it was an earthquake and all this stuff. God wasn't in none of that. But God came with a still, small voice.

He was, you know, sometimes we need the chaos to get out, remove ourselves from the chaos and the drama, just so we can get alone to hear God's small voice. You know what I mean? That's really good.

Really good, Dwayne. Thinking about the fires, the earthquakes and all that sort of thing. If you think of it in today's time, where is all that noise coming from? You know, and what's distracting us? And Ken and I have talked about this in the past and I think maybe you and I have talked about this too, Dwayne, is that Satan will use every conceivable tool in the kit.

And we have given him one of the greatest tools available by these smartphones. And that becomes the noise. If you've listened to people and if it goes from Facebook to any Instagram, TikTok, all these different things that are occupying people's minds, you know, and then you go back to Romans 12 when it talks about the renewing of the mind, which is a daily process, right? And everybody's so locked into these cell phones and all these different accounts and all this different noise. You know, it can equate to and parallel to natural disasters in the old times, right? Because that would have taken the person's focus off of that quiet, still voice of God. And this same thing is happening today.

We've got natural disasters, of course, but we're talking about the constant, the constant attack that's coming in on our people. And then let's take it a step further. As all of us are pastors here, so let's take it a step further, is that not only is that a distraction, but it becomes also a whipping stick, if you will, because people get on social media and it's amazing how big and strong and powerful people are when they're sitting behind a keyboard. You know what, you follow me? Oh, yeah. And so, you know, so, hey, I can say everything I want to about you or comment on, make a negative comment.

And it doesn't matter what it is. Keyboard gangsters. Yeah, exactly.

I like that term, keyboard gangsters. So, folks, if you're listening to this, we're talking to each other and talking and sharing with you that let's take a moment and pause. There's a couple of things I think right away we need to take out of this. Is that first what Pastor Ken said, let's be thankful for what we have, not what we've lost. And part of that losing could be pruning, right?

Part of that losing could be pruning, which then prepares you for new growth. And to your point, Dwayne, is that, you know, this culling out, if you will, taking seats away from the table, you know, we know how the Father feels about lukewarmness. And this could have been the great purge, if you will, of the body, because people have used the church on Sunday as a check in the box. We know that. We've seen it. We've witnessed it. And, you know, our motto is, you know, your Monday through Saturday face should look no different than your Sunday face. And so I think that's part of what's going on.

So, Ken, let's come back to you. And let's just talk straight ahead about some of the struggles within your church. You know, what I think you coined the phrase, your very mosaic church, which was aptly describing the makeup and mix of your church. And you had, what, 16 or 20 different nationalities in your church.

You may have the number a little bit off of all walks of life financially. And so even currently, I think up until just the last few months, had as many as six former pastors that were attending because of the draw of just come as you are, if you will. So, Ken, let's talk a little bit about that. So what have been some of the other struggles in having such a solid foundation? And then what this pandemic and people's fears and the argument of wearing a mask or not wearing a mask has done to your church?

Yeah, just the ridiculous wars that have taken place, drawing swords against each other. I think, as you were asking the question, I think probably one of the hardest things in the last, really the last couple months has been, and I love the way Dwayne talked about the chairs at the table. Some of the ones that have been removed were the ones I did not think would leave or just go astray or freak out and lose them to a degree. And that's been hard because those were some of the people I thought were going to be the strongest warriors, standing with me, leading the way, helping, providing hope and stuff. But they're the ones that got their eyes on the political situation and the unrest and the injustice, so much so that they couldn't find God in it anymore. And I don't know if they're coming back or not. It's still up, you know, because they've gone off the grid and they're not communicating anymore. So that's hard.

But those weren't friends, people that showed up at church every now and then they were core to the church. And so that's one of the effects that we're seeing. I think, remember the song from Cyndi Lauper many years ago, True Colors? Yeah.

It's been interesting to me, but I think one of the things that's happening, and I think Dwayne surely alluded to that, true colors are coming out. Right. And that's a good point, Ken. You know, what is it when the tough gets, when the going gets tough, the tough get going.

So I think that's really where you start to start to separate the men from the boys, if you will. Folks, we'll be right back. Hold that thought, Ken.

We've got to take a quick break and be right with you. Join your host, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Affordable chiropractic in High Point. As you might tell from their name, affordable chiropractic, even for the cash patient. Dr. Jeff Fricke has been caring for patients in High Point for 34 years. Physical therapy such as ultrasound and spinal decompression for disc conditions such as herniation. Comprehensive care for auto accident injury patients with no out-of-pocket expense. Remember, affordable chiropractic on West Lexington Avenue in High Point.

Call 336-885-1987. Welcome back to ManTalk Radio. Just before the break, we were talking about this may be, as what Ken was talking about, he was surprised that some of the chairs had actually slid away from the table. And I think maybe that comes back to some of the spiritual maturity would be the first thing that comes to mind, right? So if they're not really spiritually grounded and mature and understand the persecution and the storms we're going to go through, and then they get distracted with social issues, they get distracted with political issues and the unrest and things, rather than staying kingdom focused and looking at things through the eyes of the Bible and through God, Satan's got another opportunity to pull people away. And what we're talking about, maybe separating the men from the boys, I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, I mean back from a maturity standpoint, is that the people that are more mature in their walk will stay more anchored. Not that they don't sway. I mean, it does happen.

You get in the windstorm and it moves you around a little bit, but that's when you plant down harder, take a little bit lower profile, deeper in the word, more prayer time, more talking with God. And most importantly, more listening, right? So, Dwayne, let's, and Ken, hold that, because let's come back to that in just a moment. I want to circle back to that and what age group was involved. So be thinking about what age group you can, and the demographics of that.

Was it one group or was it across all different groups? And we'll talk through that in a moment. So, Dwayne, as you are out and about some, because obviously you've been living a little bit more secluded, if you will, based on what you've shared. So this is kind of, you had a big smile on your face when we were talking about, hey, welcome, y'all have come over to my side. So it's, you know, it's been hard for those of us that are extroverts to really come over to your side, to be quite honest.

Well, you know, that's the thing. I love being out. I love being out and about, but you know, there's a time for everything. In fact, in fact, the scripture in Ecclesiastic 3, there's a time for this, there's a time for that, there's a time for this. Everything, it says there's a time for everything under the sun. But then in verse 9, it says, he says, the writer writes, I have seen the great trouble that God has placed on man.

Because we don't know. This is why, this is why that small, still voice, this is why getting into your word, this is why getting up, having a solid relationship with Christ is so important because we don't know. It's a time for everything. But now we can't be picking the time when we should do what we need to do.

We have to be in relationships because he tells us. I mean, you know, he will reveal things to us, you know. And I mean, some things are simplistic as a time to mourn and, you know, time for this. But the writer writes, I have seen the trouble that God, the travail that God has placed upon man. Listen, we don't have all day to do what we need to do.

I'm talking about lifespan. Right, right, right. But we have to do what we need to do. And one of them, and the main one is getting closer to God.

You know, I spoke, I shared this on the radio broadcast, Bridging the Gap last Saturday. Evil, because we label evil, evil as a thing, evil as a thing, as a substance. Evil is the broken relationship that we had with the Father. That's what's evil. And everything else came after that.

You know, all the bad stuff. Right. We need to restore our relationships with the Father.

And that's key point principle number one. That's good. Ken, back to you.

Yeah, that is good. And I think, Roy, you and I, we were planning for one of our events coming up, our Top Men's Retreat. And one of those things, you know, I've got a big heart for is that relationship. But so many men, and I think that's where I mentioned earlier about some of my rocks, just kind of, where are they?

Where did they go? And why does it appear to me that their faith now appears so weak? It does come back to the relationship, and the daily relationship. But I also feel like so many men don't really understand an intimate relationship with a living Christ. They understand religion, and I am honoring that. Well, I think we've lost Ken here for just a moment.

But let's, we'll get him back here just momentarily. But building on that, one of the problems that Ken is sharing there is that men do not understand what it means to be intimate with the Father. And with that Jesus Christ relationship. And part of that is because we don't know how to be intimate with each other.

And most men didn't have it modeled, especially our generation, didn't have it modeled properly. So what we're learning is what we have to be taught by the Holy Spirit and by the Father and through Jesus Christ, what that looks like. And we have to be open to that. So that's a key part of any relationship, but specifically to Ken's point, it's got to be a living relationship.

It can't be a religion. It's got to be a living, breathing relationship. And that means you're talking daily. You're communicating daily. You're reading your Bible daily. You're listening, in which we talked about that a little while ago.

We just started about that. But listening is, truly listening, as Dwayne mentioned, listening for that small, still voice. But there's the other scripture in there that says, be still and know that I am God.

And so think about that. If you hear nothing or take nothing else from this show today is be still and listen for that small, still voice. But be still and know that he is God. He is God. That's some deep stuff.

I love it. You know, in the book of James, it tells us, and he would have made this statement if this statement wasn't true. He said, don't just be hearers of the word. He said, be doers of the word also. And I think it's a lot of hearers.

There's a lot of churchgoers. They're hearing the word, but they're not doing the word. Because doing the word, it takes some sacrifice. It does. It takes some commitment.

It really does. It takes some obedience. It takes all of that.

You just don't do it. It takes something. Yeah, it takes a commitment. It takes discipline, right?

It takes that. And the other thing, when you and I were talking to Dwayne before the show started, I got in a little bit of a conversation earlier this week with some men on a text stream that was about taking up your cross and following Christ. So I responded back great. It was a great scripture quote. But in the storm that we're in right now, we as men need to be leading and not lagging in the midst of this storm. And so the comment back was, as the Holy Spirit leads, like you and I were talking about.

Folks, we want to just be very clear. Jesus gave us plenty of commands and things that had to be done and needed to be done. We don't need the Holy Spirit to lead us to witness to others. We don't need the Holy Spirit to lead us to go to the next door neighbor and feed them or clothe them or go visit those in the nursing homes that don't have anyone.

Those things are things that already we know we need to be doing as followers of Christ. You know, that's one of those spiritual cliches. You know what I'm saying? It is.

So, yeah, it gets wild out here. But it's important, Dwayne, like we were talking about. We've got to be doers of the word.

That was a great, that was a God thing. Because right now, so many people are just sidelined. They're paralyzed. I guess their fear has got them paralyzed. But one of the things that we need to talk about is that, folks, we want to speak straight to you.

That if we, if you can go to Home Depot, you can go to Wal-Mart, you can go to Lowe's. You can go to all these public places, but you can't get out to, can't get out to go to church and your church is open, then you need to question yourself. Am I using this as an excuse? Or is it really a thing that I'm afraid to go to church? Well, those are the people that you know, at least, to some degree. So I would just challenge you to get back engaged in your churches. It's okay to wear a mask.

It's okay to sit by yourself. But you need to be back being a part of the body of Christ and getting that fellowship going. And so see what, where God takes you with this.

So we just turn that back to you right now, just challenging you. Because your pastors need your support. They need you to be there with them. And you know, Roy, I see what we're going through right now. And the things that we're going through in society and all of that. And then I look at the earlier church in Acts.

There's a lot, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of people that's going through that's experienced some hardship. But in the early church in the book of Acts, you know, they stoned Paul, stoned him. And, you know, stoning is, you know, that's some harsh stuff. They stoned him, took him outside the gate, left him there for dead. And he got up after they prayed and came around. He got back up and went back to do ministry. You know, now I look at what we're going through right now.

I wouldn't think personally, I wouldn't think that necessarily compared to a stoning, you know what I'm saying? But that's how serious we have to be about ministry. Now, me myself, you know, I had back problems, you know. I had to struggle to go to church when it was open. You know, you follow what I'm saying? See, so going to church now that it's closed is like, you know, I'm missing my opportunity to show God how much I love him. You know what I'm saying?

You know, that's what I'm missing. So I found me a church that's open. And now you're back in attendance. Yeah, and you know, I got a bunch of buddies that go to church and stuff like that and pastor different places. So I go fellowship with them here and there. But the point I'm trying to make is that, like you pointed out, you know, there comes a time when you have to show what's in you.

You know, the good, the bad, or the ugly. And it's coming out. That's right. Amen.

That's good. Well, Pastor, we had lost you there for a couple moments. We'd like to pick you back up where you're at. I'm back in. Hallelujah.

I'd like to pick you back up if you can remember where you're at. Yeah, we were talking about relationship, but I agree 1,000%, it all starts with that. And that's got to be a big focus where we go with it from here.

It does, Ken. And one of the things we challenged the people while you were getting back on the line with us was about their attendance and supporting the pastors. And I think we need to take it one step further. We talked about getting back and reengaged, and I feel God leading me to say this is that, folks, you know, the pastoral job is a very difficult job. And it's one of those things that I would just say this. If you've never done the job, then don't be critical of the job. If there are facets of the job that you don't understand, go sit down and talk to your pastor. If there's decisions that are made that you don't necessarily agree with, go sit down and talk to your pastor. Now, I'm not talking about fundamental things being wrong and being a pastor not being grounded in the Word. I'm talking about the kind of conversations that, you know, pastor says, hey, we're going to wear a mask, and this is why we're going to wear a mask. He's responsible for the well-being of his flock, and he's a shepherd by design. And so he's got to make sure the safest that you can be. And then there's other things that we can go through, and we'll get into next week's show, because we're going to be blessed to have both of them back with us next week, and we'll talk about these things. So one thing we just want to leave you with, just don't be paralyzed by this pandemic.

Figure out how to make it work. Wear your mask. Be selective about where you go. But don't forsake the fellowship. Do not forsake the fellowship. And we just want to leave that with you today, getting distracted here in all that we do, and just hope that you will join us again next week when we pick it back up with Duane and Pastor Ken.

And this has been a good show. Duane, thank you for being here. Ken, thank you for joining us, and we'll be back next week. As we wrap up today's show, be assured that TAWCMM, Talking and Walking Christian Men's Ministry, is building a community of men that are Christ followers with a desire to be servant leaders in their homes, communities, churches, and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings. Drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on Man Talk today. Visit us at www.tawcmm.com.

Men walking the talk. This is the Truth Network. One of our generous sponsors here at the Truth Network has come under fire.

Fire from the enemy. Fire for standing up for family values. Actually, one of the biggest supporters of the movie Unplanned that talked about the horrors of abortion. Yes, it's Mike Lindell. You've heard me talk about his pillows for a long, long time, and no doubt big business is responding to Mike Lindell and all this generosity for causes for the kingdom by trying to shut down his business. You can't buy his pillows at Kohl's anymore. You can't get them on Amazon or you can't get them at Costco.

They're attempting to close his business because he stood up for kingdom values. What a chance to respond, especially if you need a pillow. Oh, I've had mine now for years and years and years and still fluffs up as wonderful as ever. Queen size pillows are just $29.98. Be sure and use the promo code TRUTH or call 1-800-944-5396. That's 1-800-944-5396. Use the promo code TRUTH for values on any MyPillow product to support truth.