Racism And Reconciliation Part 1 Rerun

This is Robbie Dilmore from The Christian Car Guy and Kingdom Pursuit, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build a kingdom. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few seconds.

Enjoy it and share it. But most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Welcome to Man Talk Radio. I'm Will Hardy, the black guy. And I'm Roy Jones, the white guy.

And we are two brothers from different mothers, but the same father. Amen. Amen. And Roy, we got a guest here today that some may recognize him from his show, Bridging the Gap, Minister Kennedy.

He's in the house with us today. And we're going to be talking about a very sensitive subject. Everybody on the news have seen what has happened out there with George Floyd and everybody has had their opinion about, you know, what should be done in order to bring about some type of reconciliation. So we want to talk about that today because it's a topic that needs to be discussed.

And if it's discussed, it should be discussed in a church because this is where things like this should be talked about because we are the arms, legs, eyes of Christ while we are here in this body. Amen. Well, Dwayne, it's good to have you here with us. Hey, it's a blessing. It's a blessing to be here. I'm honored to be here. You know, I'll be following you guys around. You guys be handling your business. I love what you guys are doing with men's ministry. And that's one of the first ministries that I start out was with men's ministry.

So I just appreciate you guys and the love that you have for the Lord and for others, you know, it shows in what you do, you know, so I appreciate you. I'm gonna try to make the breakfast that coming up. I was gonna say, yeah, your BSF's not meeting right now, is it? So that's awesome.

That's tomorrow morning. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I have a party. See, I got a AT&T guy is coming to our studio.

We built the studio over here. So he's coming there. So I got to be there at eight o'clock. So I'm gonna try to figure it out.

I'm gonna try to figure it out. But, you know, I got to call him. Amen. Well, usually it's like most repair guys, you got a window between eight and twelve. We'll be there. And that's what it is. Eight and twelve. You know, and I don't want to miss him.

We missed him for like two weeks straight. So. Just about bet it won't be eight o'clock. Well, hey, it's so good to get this thing started. I mean, it's been very difficult two months, I guess, which is just another highlight in the challenges we're going through as a country and, of course, across the world, you know, with racism, as you were talking before the show, Dwayne, it certainly is not just between black and white.

It's between multiple races, some within the same race and just different economic groups that cause the separation and a lot of things going on. So we're just excited to get started. Hey, folks, we know this is going to be a little uncomfortable for if you're listening could be a little bit uncomfortable for all of us because, you know, we haven't pre-rehearsed this thing. We haven't talked ahead of time. We said, hey, let's get together and get this thing started. So we're basically coming to you live with this conversation. So you're hearing it as it's being discussed. And if it's hard for you, if it makes you feel uncomfortable, then you should be uncomfortable, really. Exactly.

Because, you know, we want to step out of the comfort zone. That's right. And let me lead off by saying this. We, the three of us, are all followers of Christ. We love each other as brothers in Christ because we've known each other for several years now. And that's all that matters. So if any earthly parts of those conversations come in as brothers in Christ, we'll hold each other in check and say, is this what God wants us to do? Is this where we need to be as a society? And that's the good part about being followers of Christ.

You can have the difficult conversations, but at the end of the day, you know, you love each other. And that's a key principle in truth. Truth is sweet.

The truth is sweet, but it can be bitter. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Honey to the mouth, but going down, bitter in the stomach. Yep. There you go. That's Bible. That's Bible. Yes, it is.

Yes, it is. So when listeners, when you see what you're seeing that's happening in the news and happening now around the world, it's not just America. It's around the world. It's in London. It's in Spain.

It's in Belgium. All of these protests now has spread around the world. And so when we look at this, we say, what, what is the issue that that's what's going on in the mind right now?

What is the issue that is being faced with America and what we have seen on the news in reference? Because Roy, just three or four weeks ago, we were talking about Ahmaud Arbery and now we're talking about George Floyd. So, you know, it's like this turnaround. And I remember you had asked me during that conversation, you know, what, what was it or how was I feeling? And one of the things I said was, here it goes again. Well, here it goes again. So, so now we, we are sort of, we sort of like went full circle.

Yeah. And I'd like to know when you say here, it goes again. What exactly does that mean when you say here, it goes again in your heart? What is that resonating to you when you see somebody here?

It goes again. Are we talking about the death of a black man? Are we talking under African American men? Are we talking about the fact that a police officer or ex police officer involved?

I want to make sure that we're clear to the list. When you say here it goes again, or is it just the death of a man? I believe it's, it's overall, you know, it's the over all arching effect of when people see number one, constantly on the news, police brutality. And we got, I got brought some things with me that we're going to talk about in reference to how brutality of the police or violence of the police department can be diminished based on these statistics that we're going to talk about later. But when you, when you see, and we were talking about this earlier, a policeman with his neck on the back of an individual, okay, we saw that happen. We saw in South Carolina where a man who was basically running away from the policeman shot him in the back.

We see with Ahmaud Arbery. So we see when Michael Brown up there in, was it Missouri. So we have all of these examples. So when we take each example of what we've seen and we say, what if that individual who was on the other side of that fence when that man was running away in South Carolina, what if the video wasn't recorded?

What would have been the end result? So see, so, see, so, so the, the telephone camera has actually changed the mentality of how things are projected to the media and the truth eventually is coming out. So yeah, so when I, when I say that, that's, that's what I mean.

I mean that the whole, the whole scope, it's not just one specific item within the scope, it's the whole scope. So when this started there over the last couple of weeks, I went and pulled statistics. Actually my youngest son and I were having a conversation about it because I was troubled by what continues to go on between whites and blacks and, and just in the breakdown in relationships, right? Because it's, we're never going to get any better. We've talked about this.

If, especially if we as the body of Christ can't do it right, Lord knows that the world's not going to get right. So statistically he said, Dad, have you looked at the numbers? And to, to this point there in 2019 there were 260 or 270 black American men or black men in America that were killed by police officers. And in the same year, in the maybe off funerals, there's 360 some white men killed by police officers. So the point being, that's where we get to a holistic view, is that there's 600 men that were killed. Granted, you know, and we know it's, it's, it's more publicized to your wording earlier. It was on the media about the black men that are being, that have been killed, but we haven't seen any about any of the white men that have been killed wrongfully, right?

Or with excessive force. And let's be real clear. We're not being down on any of our police officers. We support you. We love you. We know you have a very difficult job.

We want to put that clause out there as well. It's like any profession or like any, any company or any family. There's always some people that are out there doing some things. I had dinner with a police officer before we got here tonight and we've had him on the show for him.

We're going to have him here in a few weeks. He said, Roy, did you realize that that guy had 18, 18 complaints on him prior to this incident, this particular officer had not been dealt with. So there was a breakdown in the process, right? In fact, he said he should have never even got in.

He wouldn't have made it through most psychological exams, which, which I thought was interesting. So because of the fact that he's had this many occurrences over 19 years, well, Aaron has not had, he's been 19 years. And I said, well, how many complaints have you had for excessive force? Aaron's a big man. So he's six, four.

And he said zero. So I think let's, let's just want to throw that out there as part of our conversation. When you say here it goes again, I'm just wondering what that, what that meant. So, and trust me, you know, my heart, I'm broken hearted by all of this, but I think it's important for our listeners to know it's not just one side to Dwayne's comment earlier. It is.

It happens on both sides of the fence. Right? So let's get minister candidate in here.

What do you see here as the issue? Wow. You know, there's so much on the table.

I'm for real. There's so much on the table. And, and, you know, I have a lot to say, but, but I will start, I will start right here, you know, with the camera set up the phone camera, because that exposed it without that we, nobody would know anything.

So, so you have to go before the camera and just realize how many events was never wasn't, wasn't a publicized, right? So this is, this is not, this is not a, a, a, a 50 year old thing. This is a 400 year thing. You know what you, what you actually have this whole problem. It's, it's a boiling point. Everything gets to a boiling point, you know, and, and it's boiling now. The key principle is that we, before it was just, it was just African Americans protesting, you know, we have the world, I mean, they, it was a hundred thousand some people in New Zealand are protesting, walking down and talking about black lives matter. I mean, you know, so what I'm saying is that it's, it's more publicized now. So change is going to come.

Change is being made. But the thing about, about the individual thing, because you have to, you know, the oppressed, if the oppressed is the only one talking about the oppression, it's never going to change. You have to have the oppressor get to a place where, you know, this is wrong, you know, and it's wrong. Now I think what you have now, you have a lot of people that are empathizing, not just sympathize, but empathizing with our culture, because you know, imagine your kids, you know, somebody just take your kid from you.

I mean, so we have, this is a 400 year problem and it's get to a boiling point. But as far as the police, I'm going to tell you, that's a key principle right there. I couldn't be a police because I will be one of the guys. I'm not going to take no L's. I'm not going to take a loss. You know what I'm saying? So I'm coming in to the situation with my mind.

Like, you know, I'm not ready to go down. So some people can't be police. Some people shouldn't be police. And that's where the mental, they have to check these people. Like you pointed out that statistic, that's some deep stuff. These people have to be, you know, I think everything needs to go right now, where we are right now, it has to go to some type of police reform.

They have to, when a foundation is messed up, you got to tear the whole foundation down and rebuild it. And that's where it is, that's where it should be going right now. You know, it's a lot of stuff going on.

Well, I don't disagree with you, Dwayne. I think what we have to be cognizant of is when you take whatever the ratio is, right, that's, statistics don't lie. The numbers of occurrences, I think we need to talk about that when we come back, so we understand the scope of it. There are some bad folks out there. We all agree on both sides.

Bad folks that are on the civilian side, bad folks that aren't doing the job right as a police officer. We'll be back here in just a moment. Thank you very much. ine you join their community of men for breakfast every first and third Friday of every month. They have Bible discussions and fellowship after the best breakfast in town. The meeting location is at their gracious Host Church, First Christian Church in Kernersville, 1130 North Main Street in Kernersville.

They have a hard start at seven o'clock and a hard stop at eight o'clock. First-time visitors eat for free. Join your hosts Wil Hardy and Roy Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Affordable Chiropractic in High Point. As you might tell from their name, Affordable Chiropractic, even for the cash patient. Dr. Jeff Fricke has been caring for patients in High Point for 34 years. Physical therapy such as ultrasound and spinal decompression for disc conditions such as herniation. Comprehensive care for auto accident injury patients with no out of pocket expense. Remember, Affordable Chiropractic on West Lexington Avenue in High Point.

Call 336-885-1987. Welcome back folks, we're getting used to our intro back from the break so it's good to have you back with us. So as we were talking about before we went to the break, Dwayne, we were talking about statistically speaking, right? So I guess it's like anything, you have to take the total number of incidents against the total population or the total number of occurrences that go on within whatever profession is. In this case, the total number of incidents that police officers do with their job day in, day out, no issues.

They love on people, they try to coach people. Even when they're getting spat on, they're getting, is that the right word, spat on? All those things, they still do it right every day. So we have these situations where things have gone wrong either because the person shouldn't have been in the job to begin with or they've just gotten so complacent with life because of all they see every day and then of course let's not forget what was it like three years ago that officers were being killed and shot at random.

I mean, I think it's inside three years, wasn't it? So I couldn't imagine putting on my uniform every day and first not knowing if somebody's going to shoot at me or just kill me, walk up to the car and execute me or if I'm going to be shot getting out of my car or going into a domestic situation. So very, very difficult job. Very difficult job. You got to have, you got to be, there has to be some type of training and response and staying up with these people because police see some of the horrific things. I mean, they see some terrible things through their career and you know, it's on and on and on and they see it day in and day out, you know, eight hours, I mean, they see some horrible things.

And you know what happens? And it affects them. It desensitizes them and it actually makes you very callous. And so, and I think the same thing happens to people growing up. And that's one thing we need to talk to back to what our whole drive is as an organization is getting men to take their proper and God-assigned roles. And we know, and there's one of the things I want to talk about, what role does the lack of father play in these situations where people are getting into trouble? I mean, if you're getting into trouble and you're getting arrested, there's some, there's some basis behind getting arrested, right? If you're breaking the law and you're getting arrested, let's separate the inappropriate behavior of the police officer. Let's get to the core issue, or I would like to throw that out as a discussion point. If you're not getting in trouble, you're not having an encounter with the police officer, generally speaking.

Now, there are those racial profiling situations we see where somebody gets stopped because of the color of skin. We've talked about that's back to wrong. That's back to training. That's back to loving on people instead of expecting the worst. So I'll just throw that out there as a question. Well before you, before we dive into that, I want to go back to something that was stated earlier is that all policemen are not like the police that we saw with the neck on the back of the, you know, neck on the back of the guy on the ground. All police are like that. And see, what that is, is it's stereotypical is what it is. It's a stereotype. If you wear the uniform, you're automatically evil and that's not the case. Exactly.

Right. You know, you, if you're African American, you play basketball and eat watermelon. See, that's a stereotype.

You know, an Asian individual, all of them know martial arts. See these stereotypical ideologies is what break down the system of really concrete thinking the way we should go into a discussion when we start talking about this. You know, so we can't look at the small part and say, judge the whole, the whole is like the small part.

I agree with you, Will. That's a good summary. And see, when we put that out there, then we say, okay, that's out there now. So when we talk, we're not talking about the whole. We're talking about just those individuals who go against the things that they were trained to do. Right, right. Well, since we all started talking about the police officer, and again, hold your thought there, because I got some statistics here.

This is the great part about live shows, you get to go wherever you want to go. Absolutely. So, I got this off of a website called Campaign Zero. It's called EightCan'tWait.org. It's actually a website that President Obama recommended people go to and see if their particular cities are listed and how they're listed as far as category. And so they said on this website that if police policies, if they do these things, then the police policy and the police violence as a result of this policy would go down 72%, which I thought was like, wow, just blown away.

But apparently this organization keeps the statistics. And number one was they need to bar chokeholds. That was number one, bar the chokeholds.

Number two was require an officer to de-escalate a situation. That's a big one right there. Absolutely. Well, okay, keep going. Keep going. Yeah.

Let me go through them. Because see, I see right now that Roy is all geared up on this thing. No, with the de-escalation. So the number three was require a warning before shooting.

This is right off the website now I'm reading. And then it says exhaust, number four was exhaust all other means before shooting. Number five was their duty to intervene. Now, this one was a big one in just what we just saw. Their duty to intervene. Intervene in what? In reference to the amount of force of someone else that is being used, which means that when the individual had his neck on George Floyd, two officers should have said, get off of this guy. That's intervening. That's what the officer I had dinner with was referring to as well. And then it was banned shooting at moving vehicles.

That was that was on the website. And then require the use of force continuum. Now what force continuum is, and it's it's like a broad definition, but force continuum and of course, Aaron probably speak better to this when we have him on.

It says that an officer is required to use the amount of force necessary based on the resistance that is being given to him in reference to our arrest. So again, that's broad. See it, and you can go a whole lot of places, but again, they are trained in areas like this. Of course they are.

Yeah. They require a comprehensive report and see the officers there in Atlanta, the six that got fired. What they did, they turned off their body cam. So again, so now you won't have a comprehensive report based on video. You got one word against another word. So but yeah, going back to that deescalation, I'm just sitting here thinking that all of us sitting around this table have been in situations where stuff started to get escalated. One person doesn't deescalate a situation. They can attempt to and the other person is listening and will react accordingly can deescalate it. But how many times do officers get out there and whether it's a domestic, doesn't matter what color the skin is, they get into a domestic situation and half the times when you see they go to answer a domestic call, fight between a husband and a wife, guess who ends up getting attacked? Yeah. So the man turns on the husband or the man turns on the husband depending on who's originally made the call. It's generally the one that made the call that's coming back after the officer. So that's just a small example of deescalation.

It doesn't work. Yeah. So there needs to be multiple. So situations like we're dealing with right now when there's hundreds of people if not thousands of people that are tearing up stuff and blowing up stores and burning them down and I mean in their own neighborhoods too and some of these people aren't even in those neighborhoods.

They're just showing up. How do you deescalate that? Well, of course, some of the police officers have been accused of not doing anything and watching stuff happen. Well, at some point when the numbers outweigh your numbers of riot control, I would assume that they have no choice but to kind of just – they can't deescalate it is my point. So I guess that's a great theoretical step.

Well, no, no, it's not theoretical in the sense. What they're saying here is the officer should do this. We're not saying it's going to work.

We're saying that as part of your training, you should go in there and attempt to deescalate. And we can give examples. We can give examples as to all of what – why something like this won't work. But that's what we have to do. They have to go in and attempt it. Not saying it's going to work. Well, and the officer I had dinner with spoke very much to that about when he approached the situation, in fact, he even commented on what he would have done.

He told his coworker, he said, if it had been you, I'd have broke your jaw because you would have been off of it. That's just the heart of this one. And I think if we were to survey 100 police officers, we'd probably get 98 percent would respond the same. They are taught to deescalate. They're taught to go in and manage things. They're not supposed to get emotional. And I think that's the biggest thing. You know, they are trained to take control of any environment that they come into. And I think that's like a pro and – you know what I mean?

I tell my kids all the time, if you do something nice for someone, you can get better results than being mean. But then, you know, I take my hat off to the police officers and I'll tell you this because I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it.

I'd definitely be, you know, in cuffs and I'm for real, you know, because I'm not going – you just ain't going – you know, I can't do it. But I was – I remember I just bought a car. It was nighttime. I bought a car and I was driving, had some friends with me, and I pulled up and the cops pulled me over because the stuff it had on the plate, it had one of them liquor, the drinking plates on there. And so I didn't know nothing about that, so I was just giving them my information and all that stuff. And the guy was like, oh, man, you know what?

You pretty nice, man. You know, we talked. And he said, I'm going to let you go. But then the sirens was blaring. And then RoboCop pulled up on – all up on the cold room, jumped out of the car, slammed the door, fixing his pants, and he walked – and when he was walking to me, he bumped me.

Like bumped me, almost like bumped me into the car, and I'm just like, man, oh. That night I got locked up because of RoboCop. The other cop was, you know, we talked, I showed him all my credentials. He was like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the thing about it, right before the cop said – when RoboCop pulled up, he said, hey, man, I'm sorry. So he knew what was going to happen before I knew.

The other police officer apologized as soon as the guy rolled in. Yeah. So he knew it was getting ugly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there, you were stereotyped.

You were in a new car with a group of your friends, you were stereotyped. So, I mean, that's exactly what we talked about doesn't need to be happening. So de-escalation is part of their training.

It just doesn't always work because we know human nature on the other side is going to have the fight with them no matter what at times. So hey, wow, where did the first half hour go? So hey, come back and join us next week. We'll pick this conversation back up.

Dwayne is going to stay with us and we'll look forward to having him back. So God bless all you folks and we hope you're enjoying the show. As we wrap up today's show, be assured that TAWCMM, Talking and Walking Christian Men's Ministry, is building a community of men that are Christ followers with a desire to be served leaders in their homes, communities, churches and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings. Drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on Man Talk today. Visit us at www.tawcmm.com. Again, walking the talk.