Can I Get A Witness?

This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Man Talk, brought to you by TAWCMM, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where they're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination, and challenging men to take their God-assigned role. Here's our hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Well, welcome back to Man Talk Radio. This is Roy Jones Jr. Will will not be with us today. He is off, but we've got two wonderful guests with us today on the program, Michael Troutman and Jerome Good, and like to give each one of them a moment to introduce themselves and give them a great big welcome to the show. Well, thank you, Roy. As he said, my name is Michael Troutman. I'm an attorney in High Point in criminal litigation. And one of the things that I think about often is in that profession, we call on witnesses to speak the truth. And that's one of the passions that I have this evening, that we have men speaking the truth and witnessing to what we know about Jesus Christ. Thank you, Michael.

Great way to start tonight. Jerome. Again, thank you, Roy. My name is Jerome Good, retired postal worker, retired Boy Scout leader, but currently a minister over our Ms. Ministry of Love and Faith Christian Fellowship. Thank you, Jerome.

Well, I can speak personally. I've met these two men over the last couple of years, and they've grown near and dear to my heart. And I love them as if they were my blood brothers, but they are my Christian brothers. And we've got the same Heavenly Father. And it's a great pleasure to have you guys here tonight. And Michael, why don't we lead off with you? You talked about witness. You know, you're in the profession of the legal side and the Esquire, and you represent folks that have gotten themselves in some pretty bad situations from what you've shared with me in the past. Oh, yes, indeed. So let's talk about this witness thing. What's on your heart about the witness? Well, I mean, there is a commission and we call it the great commission.

We all know it. Matthew 28, 19 and 20 says, go thee and make disciples. But I feel like we fall down on that so often. Witnessing is about proclaiming what you know and what you know and what your personal knowledge is. And for us, it would be about Jesus Christ. And so I think it's important that we get that out, that we open our mouths and speak about the goodness of Jesus Christ.

Amen. Well, do you think, Michael, that the environment that we're currently in, you know, especially for Christians and followers of Christ tend to be persecuted quite heavily if they say anything, no matter what the topic is, but knowing that if they're biblically based comments, that it's going to come under fire. So do you think that's put some squash on people's willingness to go out and share the gospel?

Well, I'm glad you raised that issue because I have I can think of any number of reasons that we don't do it. And certainly that is one. But the church grows, the body of Christ grows under persecution. If we look in the Book of Acts, we see that the church came with all kinds of persecution, disciples and the followers of Christ were always called to task for what they believed in, beaten, ostracized, imprisoned. And so we can't shy away from that. And in fact, we need to walk right into the fray because people are out there uninformed, lost, and we need to help bring them back in.

That's a great point. I refer to it as being a warrior for Christ. Amen. And we've got a warrior in our midst tonight as well. We've got a legal warrior in Michael, and we've got a former army veteran with Jerome. Jerome, why don't you speak briefly about this thing with going out and sharing your faith and be willing to go into persecution?

How do you feel about that? Well, my personal take on it is that we are afraid to leave the four walls. The real church is out in the street.

As I said, I'm a retired mailman. I seen it day in and day out on churches on every corner, and the people in the neighborhood didn't even know who attended the church. More or less, if that church closed their door, nobody would miss them because the church rolled in and they rolled out. But we've got to get beyond just church work and get into this thing called kingdom work. Amen. And so what you're saying, if I'm hearing you correctly, is we could be in a community and not even know who the community is, and the community could really not even know who we are as the body of Christ. Happens every Sunday.

That's a great point, Jerome. A few years ago, unfortunately, a close friend of mine was murdered over in High Point, and I'm sure Michael may be aware of it. It was a gun shop owner there on South Main Street, and he was stabbed to death on a Saturday afternoon.

Got caught by surprise. He was always armed, but he was right next to a church, literally lived right behind the church. So when I heard about his murder, I contacted some folks and said, hey, this is the guy. He literally lives right behind your church, but there was not any knowledge of the man and his name. And I said, well, somebody needs to get over there and meet his wife and see if there's anything that the body can do for her in this time of loss. But I thought it very shocking, because this man had been living behind the church for, it had to be 20, 25 years, and folks who were in key leadership didn't know this man's name.

And literally, it was out the back of the parking lot, and you would have walked into his backyard. So that's an excellent point. So Michael, when you hear that comment, and we're not breaking outside the walls, and then the things that you deal with on a daily basis, for a listener that's here that's following Christ, how can they make a difference? Because you're dealing with a lot of folks who've gotten in trouble, gotten on the wrong side of the law, and you're unfortunately having to defend them guilty or not.

You're in the middle of having to defend them. How do you think we can make a difference for our communities if we're more engaged as the body of Christ? Well, one of the things that I do every morning, or most mornings, is that I pray for an opportunity, that the Lord will place in my path someone that needs to hear the gospel. And quite frankly, when you pray for something, He gives it to you, if it's for kingdom building. As Jerome indicated, it's outside of the church that we have those opportunities. In our day-to-day walk, in our marketplace, you will run into individuals that have questions about life, questions about the faith. And if we just open our mouths, again, I'm always saying this, tell somebody. You know something that they may not know. And it is incumbent upon us to tell somebody about Jesus.

That message may be as simple as, He really does love you. Exactly. Because I think loneliness is probably one of the single largest components, as the three of us have talked, among men, it's one of the single largest components. But now you're hearing more and more people, it's about loneliness.

I heard a story today, I actually read a story online, where a guy pulled his vehicle up on top of a bridge, jumped off into a tractor trailer coming and hit the windshield of the tractor trailer, flipped over into the sleeper and died. And there's a 48 year old man, still got a lot of his life ahead of him, and had to be someone had never shared the gospel with him, or never gave a message of hope. So we never know what the seed is going to do that you're planting, right? Once you plant that seed, someone else may harvest it.

But if you're not planting, there's definitely not going to be a harvest. So Jerome, let's go back to that piece. You know, you're a community service guy, you have always been out helping others, you've got a heart of service. And you're actually from the public sector, having been in as a mailman for so many years. What opportunities did you have as a mailman to share the gospel?

And how can just a normal citizen every day, take advantage of that opportunity? Because you've shared some really neat stories with us. Well, as a mailman, and having a personal relationship with our Lord and Savior, He would give you messages, or I used to tell my customer, I got some mail from you, and it's not from the post office. And that gave me an excellent opportunity to witness or to share a message with them, to share hope.

Let them know that someone do care and does care about you. And I said, Jesus tells your business, tell your business, but not for gospel, but for someone to help you. Oh, that's awesome. But you had to be a protector of that knowledge, right? Because you've shared some situation, you go and just ask a question, but already knew the answer. When you go in to say hello to somebody, I know there was things that were going on, but you got to protect that knowledge, right?

Well, you have to make sure you're operating within your season. And you got to look for listening ears to because you know, the enemy is there to steal, kill and destroy. So whatever word is planted, you got somebody that's ready to steal it. So you got to be careful on how you share, but not be fearful.

Because He didn't give us the spirit of fear, but love, power and sound mind. And anyone that knows me out there, they know old mailman don't run for too many folks. There you go.

Plus an old army mailman, so he's not going to run from too many folks. But just sharing on my heart is with our youth. We understand on how the world is dealing with the fatherless home, the fatherless school, the fatherless, unfortunately, in the church. And it shouldn't be because the Bible tells us to train up a child in the way it should go. Didn't say just your child. So as you come into these people, young people are coming into the house, why are they still fatherless?

It should be someone, some man there, willing to sow seed into the young person. But if we're just concerned about our forward no more, then we're not doing as much as the world is doing. Well, that's a great point, Jerome.

The name of the show is Man Talk Radio. What we're talking to you, men, is you as the man of your home, the man of your church and the man of your community and your workplace. And we're going to challenge you on the shows we've done time and time again that get off the sidelines.

It's time to start making a difference in your home, in your church and in your community and your workplace. We see the results of men standing on the sideline with all the legislations that have changed things throughout the country. And the way we've adapted certain ways of life is no longer acceptable to do things that are right things. That becomes, that is now the abnormal, standing on biblical standards. And I think personally, and what God's put on my hearts, because just that very thing, men are standing on the sidelines, Jerome.

So that's a very good point. And what Jerome's referring to here is kingdom builders. As you get to know Jerome and Michael, that's their heart. That's their pastor's heart. Pastor Michael's heart is about building the kingdom.

And these two men have walked alongside together for the last two years and truly, truly, it's about building the kingdom. So Michael, with that, give me another example of something that's on your heart about this thing with the, with men getting out and witnessing and people in general getting out and witnessing. And you know, you've shared some things that have happened to you, whether it be jokes in the workplace or those types of things and how you handled that in a loving way, but still didn't condone the behavior. Well, just one of the things I just want to go back to that Jerome was talking about is the integrity part. I mean, if you were given something about someone who is sharing with you, then you want to be able to hold that close. Because what I do encounter in my profession is people are always confronted with con, lack of integrity, and they expect us, if we're going to be representing Jesus Christ, to walk with integrity. And so part of that is just holding close to what you learn.

Well, that's a very good statement, Michael. One of the things we talked about on our show last time was about gossip and part of that was holding the confidence when a brother shares something with you, not be out talking about it. And that's extremely important is to hold that confidence. And that goes back to accountability, goes back to partnership and walking this thing out with a brother in Christ. Jerome, we're coming up on a break here, but is there one thing, I see your wheels turning, something on your heart? Yes, I don't think I want to share. Men's going to have to set aside this pride. Because as the, as the Bible says, pride comes just before the destruction.

And we may be lacking in areas, but the Bible says that if you lack any wisdom, just ask. And then he'll give it to you. Hold that remainder of that thought, Jerome. We'll be right back. Folks, we're taking a break. Thank you for joining ManTalk Radio. We're honored to have Michael Trautman and Jerome Goode with us today.

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Call 336-885-1987. Welcome back to the show. As we went to break, we were talking about pride with men. And I think, Jerome, you hit on something that probably most people don't want to admit. And I think that's what caused a lot of loneliness within men. I think that's what caused a lot of dysfunction in the families. And I think that's what caused a lot of failure in the marriages because men's pride won't allow them to reach out and say, hey, I need help.

I need some help with this struggle I'm going through. Come back to that, Jerome. Obviously, you've seen some of that in the Kingdom Building piece and this pride thing is obviously, it's a man problem, right? Well, that's why men won't get off the sideline. Their pride is holding them on the sideline. They're not good enough. They're not educated enough. They're not whatever shortcomings that they think they have. They don't seek help.

They want to use that as an excuse to stay on the sideline. So in my walking, working in the scouts for over 25 years, you could see dads at home, but no engagement. Where that I worked with a child once a week, and I was more like daddy than the man that lived there seven days a week. So it's on how you take the time to seek help.

We have a program called Nobleman's Workshop. I had the pleasure of taking three generations and teaching them how to tie a tie. But it wasn't until they came out, no one would ever know.

The whole family was clip-ons. So it was just them taking that initial step to seek help. They got it. And you see them now, they're prideful in a different way.

And rejoicing on, now I know how to share something with the next generation. Right. And that's a good point. So that could transcend or be translated into any number of things, right? So tying the tie is just the first step or just an example of what, when somebody finally opens their hearts, say, hey, I need a little help learning these things that I don't know.

And you made a comment earlier about not feeling educated enough or not feeling smart enough. And that's the great part about every individual. We were created in God's image, right? So it doesn't matter what level you're at, either socioeconomic or educational level, you're who God wanted you to be.

And he can certainly come alongside in the supernatural and take you to another level if he chooses to do that. But we need to be comfortable and not embarrassed, not prideful that we're not where someone else is at. Because that goes back to coveting your brother, right?

And the things they've got, or maybe you don't have, or being envious of things that you shouldn't be worried about, right? Right. But every man's journey was for a specific reason. That's part of that witnessing and testimony.

How can you have a testimony if you've never been tested? So if we just get comfortable in doing the natural, just being obedient on what God has asked us to do, just doing the natural, then you can see the supernatural manifested in each one of our lives. And when you sit in that shock, like, did I say that? But it's not him. It's not us doing it.

It's just him using us. Right. So let's mirror back on that real quick.

You've just got to do all that you can do in the natural and allow God to come along in the supernatural and take it to the next level. Right. Amen. So I think the three of us sitting here and you guys have heard us talk before on the show that a man with an opinion has no argument with a man with experience. And what that says is you've been tested and you can speak at how God has taken you through that fire, through that journey. But if you're standing on the sidelines, you're staying comfortable and you're not stepping out, you can never be tested because you can never grow. Not like you could if you were doing what you just mentioned, Jerome, if we'll start doing what we can in the natural.

So Michael, let's go back to you for a quick second. Related to some of the things you shared about getting out, witnessing and in your profession, just like Jerome, you're out in the public eye, touching a lot of people. And most certainly folks seem to be more motivated when they're either behind bars or facing to be behind bars, that their hearts seem to be just naturally so more tender and say, oh my, and literally say, oh my God, not whether they're really talking to him or not, but how did I get here?

Right. And so how have you had an opportunity to utilize those challenges and to share the gospel in those moments? Well, the one thing I know about anybody who has yet to accept Jesus Christ is that they're in rebellion. And once they recognize that they're in rebellion, and we all were before we came to Christ, we have to come to a realization or we have to be told that he loves us. God loves us and he has a purpose for our lives. I think Jerome was alluding to that, that we have purpose. And God's purpose in our lives is only fulfilled when we surrender that, when we open our hands and give up, give up that rebellion. So we're in rebellion. We need to hear the gospel. We need to accept that Jesus Christ loves us. And once we surrender our lives, things get much better.

Just a quick story. Going into the jail, I meet a young man, I engage with him, and he's definitely interested in this case, as he should be. As I leave the jail, the Holy Spirit speaks to me, and we have to always be available to hear the Holy Spirit's voice. And the Holy Spirit speaks to me and says, why didn't you tell him about me? And I was convicted by that, and I said I would never let that happen again.

I would like to say that I went in and spoke to that particular young man, but I did not. But I said I would not let an opportunity arise that I did not speak into someone's life the words of life. And so given that opportunity, we need to take advantage of it. Amen. Well, I think all of us have had one of those opportunities where we've lost a friend or a loved one that we had intentions of sharing the gospel with, but we never did share the gospel. And I don't think there's a worse feeling than knowing that a brother or sister went away, and we don't know for sure if they went to heaven. How much joy can the devil get knowing that that opportunity was lost, that that individual could have been brought into the kingdom, but we let that opportunity escape us. Right.

Very good point. Jerome, so let's go back to you for another moment. Male man, military man, what's the biggest miracle you ever saw God do in your life?

I'm gonna hit you with a surprise question here. My life, I am the biggest miracle that God could do for me. I have walked the walk, I've talked the talk, I was one of Satan's best soldiers. It took me on my deathbed to really get serious about my walk. So far as commitment to God, that is a no-brainer for me. Amen.

And so, you know, I just got enough sense just to do what the man asked me to do. Right. So if I may inquire, because I think another deathbed story you're telling me about is when we both had a, I had a similar attack this summer, but it wasn't near as bad as yours. Is that the, when you're talking about the deathbed? Yes sir.

Yeah. So, well we're men, we can talk openly, I don't mind sharing. I had diverticulitis this summer, and it wasn't nearly as bad as Jerome's, but it was a wake-up call, I'll tell you that. And to hear him describe his, his was probably ten times as bad as mine or worse, because he literally went to the door. And God said, nope, not ready for you, come on.

No, the door was open. So he had more work for you to be doing, that's for sure. But I believe in what Micah was sharing, as far as getting the word in him. They got to be careful on whose word they putting in there.

Guys that are coming into the knowledge of, they reading everybody's book, except the book. So if they can get their commitment level up, and then word of God up, then we'll start seeing the change. So scripture tells us to do what? To seek you first what? The kingdom of God. The kingdom, so that's the very first, the very first directive.

Seek him first, seek the kingdom of God first. To your point Jerome, it's not everybody else's book, not that there's not a lot of good books out there and a good material to take and help grow and mature you in your walk, but if you're not in the primary book, that other stuff really doesn't make any sense and doesn't, it's not logical for you to be studying that if you're not in the word. Amen? Amen. That's if you want to do church work.

Oh, so you can get into a lot of good programming and still no one gets saved. So that's where that knocking on the door there. And so now we're stepping on some toes now.

Yeah. So, all right, for those of you listening out there, they're busy with church work. We're not busy with kingdom work.

Jerome's got a message for you here. You need to get about kingdom work, get outside the four walls and not get so secure in the four walls that you're missing what God's called us to do and what Michael shared earlier, the great commissions to go out and make disciples of all nations. So if we're supposed to go out into the hedges and highways and compel men to come, why are we having so many programs?

In the church. We're having more programs saying whosoever will let them come, but that's not what the word told us to do. So it said go get them. It said go.

Go. Yeah. But we, as we was talking about earlier, we spending more time and money on the ones we're supposed to already have. Well, you speak money. That's a whole nother concept, right? We can call it what it is. And we've talked about this before. How much money are we spending going out versus inside the building versus metal front building versus an extremely expensive and I'm not faulting anybody.

I'm just making a comment here. If you spend $20 million on the building versus $2 million on the metal front building or $3 million, think what you could have done with the other $17 million, right? So those are the kind of things that we need as men, again, back to men in leadership, men following God, men in the kingdom builders need to be asking those questions.

And you may come to the conclusion it's okay as a team to spend that kind of money for this reason, but men, if you're not getting involved, you can't make an impact. So we're coming down here in a few moments to close up, but let me give you guys about 30 seconds a piece. If you've got the closing thoughts you'd like to share with the audience.

Michael? My closing thought would be that we don't want to give up on anyone. God has worth for everybody. Amen. And everybody should be reached. Amen.

Jerome? The harvest is plentiful, but the labors are few. We need every hand on deck because we are in our last days.

You know, that's a great point, Jerome. That scripture says that. And then the other scripture says many hands make little work.

So right, the harvest is great, but the labors are few, but yet many hands make little work, right? Amen. So what we're telling you men is get off the sidelines, get moving, get outside the four walls of the church. If you're not in church, we encourage you to get engaged with the body of Christ. And as always, we want you to know, if you haven't accepted Christ as your personal savior, it's a simple process. Just acknowledge your sinner, ask him into your heart, find the fellowship to a body of believers to fellowship with, and just turn your life around.

Just let God take it from there and start living for him on a daily basis. We thank you for joining ManTalk Radio. Will we miss you? Jerome, it was great having you with us today. Michael, it's always a pleasure to have you.

Thank you for having me. Both of you guys. Love you guys. And I hope that God blesses you throughout the rest of the week.

Amen. As we wrap up today's show, be assured that TAWCMM, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, is building a community of men that are Christ followers with the desire to be servant leaders in their homes, communities, churches, and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings. Drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on ManTalk today. Visit us at www.tawcmm.com. Men walking the talk. This is the Truth Network.