What can the born again believer do about racism?

Welcome to Man Talk, brought to you by TAWCMN, talking and walking Christian men's ministry where they're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination, and challenging men to take their God-assigned role. Here's our hosts Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white man. Welcome once again to Man Talk Radio, and I'm the black guy, Will Hardy.

And I'm Roy Jones, the white guy. And, you know, Roy, we had such a phenomenal response on the last couple of shows that we did in reference to race, racism, and reconciliation. Just a lot of good feedback, you know, things that we're not going to hear in the last couple of weeks. So we thought we would just sort of like build on those two shows for these next two shows. That's exactly right, Will. After all the feedback, and of course we've had some men's breakfast along the way and had a chance to talk about some of these topics, and it's definitely something that needs to continue. We weren't ready to stop. So let's get into it.

All right. So Will, last week we were with our guys on a Friday morning, and of course you were absent and I was filling in, but I did a little bit of research on the Internet, which seems to be everybody's tool these days on the Google, but what does the Bible say about racism? And there was an article in there from the Christian Post that it was specifically that it was what does the Bible say about racism?

So giving them credit for the research they've done and some of the quotes here. They provided a quote that Nelson Mandela shared. No one is born hating another person because of the color of the skin or his background or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love. You know, and that's what we said on the first show is that this type of hate, racial hate, is a learned behavior, and it comes from individuals who are not thinking rationally. And, you know, we had some definitions on the first two shows that we did on racism regards to definition and how a person thinks themselves to be more superior than others.

Well, you're exactly right. It's taught and then it's learned from watching. It's also taught from some of the, I would say, some of the comments made by people around a person or even parents or lack of parents just out in the community what a child may see or what another person may see and learn. And what's important about that is that if it can be taught to hate, we can be taught to hate. We certainly can be taught to love properly, right? And I think one thing that we need to share, as we've always shared, is it's never too late, no matter where you're at in your walk of life, where you're at in your walk with God, that he can take these things and turn them into good. He can manifest through you and in you to make the change.

Exactly. And the person would have to want this change. But, and we've had all kinds, I think there's all kinds of programs that's out there probably more secular than that's happening in the church. And that's one reason why we're talking about this subject is because we don't have it talked about a lot, you know, in the pulpit, you know, for fear of rubbing someone the wrong way or getting some feelings hurt. But, you know, when you are not living according to biblical standards and when the scripture is taught, it's going to hurt you.

Of course it is. One thing you just said a moment ago, I want to ask you about, and just let's take a moment to talk through this, is that a person has to want it in order for them to get it or to pursue it or want that change. You know, when the Bible tells us we need to pray for our enemies and love our enemies, right? So we don't particularly care for them. And obviously we most likely don't like our enemies. So scripture tells us to pray for them and love our enemies. So if we think of this issue in that context, most people that listen know that racism is wrong. They may not change or may not feel like they want to change because of something that's happened in the past or, you know, some white man did something wrong to me or some black man did something wrong to me.

So therefore I'm going to hate all those people. But in our hearts, we know that that's wrong. Now you may make a conscious decision to try to stay on that path, but here's my challenge to anybody that's listening. Back to biblical directive, you know it's wrong, but you don't want to change, but I'm going to challenge you to pray for that change, even though you in your mind say, I don't want to change. But because you know that you should change, you just need to pray for that and let God make that change in your life. And that change, exactly. That change may come about through some type of external stimulus, you know, to jolt something within the individual.

So a brother may have to come and give you a word or to say, hey, you know, tone yourself down because you're getting a little bit forward or, you know, you're bordering that line of being belligerent, you know, toward another individual. You know, and I think that movie that was on earlier this year, I think Billy Bob Thornton was in that movie where he was, it was cast, I think back in the fifties or sixties, and I'm strictly going off brief memory. But the movie was kind of casting that one of the board members had a real hard heart towards the black population. It was during desegregation, maybe just before desegregation, because they were trying to get a school established for the black community and do the right thing.

And then they were without facilities, if I remember correctly. So Billy Bob Thornton was this real hardline racist, we'll call, because that's what it was, hardline racist towards the African American or black community. But through the act of kindness from one of the African American or black women, which he did not realize until a little bit later, it showed him that they were much better in spirit than he thought that person to be.

They were just like, well, even better than him because they were loving out of the kindest heart in spite of all the abuse and the mistreatment that she was experiencing through the movie. And that ended up changing his heart. So the point being, love your neighbor, right, as yourself. And if you're loving your neighbor, irrespective of how you feel, will you affect change?

Yes. And I think that was demonstrated from the congregation in South Carolina when the young man came and shot up that church down there, which I know our listening audience probably have heard. But the congregation forgave that.

They did. And it was such an outpouring of love. And it was genuine. Yeah, very much so. You know, so we you know, when we look at that, we say that is a prime example of what we're talking about when it comes to coming back to the standards, because we all have to live by a standard, whether it's our own standard that we set for ourselves, which will fail. But if we're talking to you who are born again, you have a biblical standard. So the biblical standard is the standard that God set in his word, because we don't want ourselves to be affected by the individual who is angry. And look what Proverbs 22 verses 24 and 25 says, it says, make no friendship with an angry man and with a furious man do not go, lest you learn his ways and you incur judgment for your soul. So being around this. And if you if you are not equipped biblically with the word of God, this these passages are saying that you will be affected by it. Right.

If you allow yourself to continuously be bombarded by it and allow it to enter your mind and heart. Well, it's old saying when we were growing up, birds of a feather flock together. Right.

So that is what ends up happening. You start to look like, act like, feel like the people that you're around. Because that's just the influence that others have on you.

So you have to set yourself apart. Right. Exactly.

And that's in fact, it's what we're talking about just a few moments ago in Matthew 5, 13 through 16. You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world.

A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead, they put it on its stand and give its light to everyone in the house.

In the same way, let your light shine before others that they may see your good deeds and glorify your father in heaven. See, and I love that part about the salt because salt serves a lot of purposes. It does.

It does. And one thing salt does in the way food was preserved in old times, and I'm telling my age a little bit now, but it was you would put meat in salt and that salt would preserve the meat because they didn't have refrigerators and things like that to keep it cold. So it's preservative.

It acts as a preservative amongst other things. So we are to preserve God's word to the lost and dying world. Yes. So when we get it, we preserve it. And when we give it to others, we give it without judgment. We give it in love. Right. And we let we let God and his Holy Spirit do the rest. That's exactly right. One of the things that I've always found interesting is that most people don't speak up.

They just they may not agree with what's going on, but they just don't speak up. And I think that's why the scripture speaks out. Wow. Being the salt of the world means that you think about what happens to salt when you rub it in a wound. It burns. That's right.

So back to your point about preserving, but also can disinfect or create some stimulus into the body. So we need to be the salt of the earth, the spiritual salt, if you will, and challenge these things that are going on. And I'll be it. We're not talking about being confrontation when we say challenge. We're talking about stand on your standards and and speak to a person that says, hey, this is not right. I'm going to step out of this conversation or brother, that's not biblical. We shouldn't be we shouldn't be talking like this.

We shouldn't be thinking like this or we shouldn't be acting like this. Right. And if, you know, you if it's not happening inside your local church, take it to your leadership. Yes.

Take it to your leadership, because the leadership, they know the things that are happening and going on around the church and in society in general. That's right. And if we are the salt, we need to come and de-escalate a lot of this this anger and hate and irrational thinking. Right. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. But we are his hands and we are his feet. And if you're not in church and you're just don't have a body fellowship, then we encourage you to seek a body fellowship to be a part of. But also you can ask God to show you where you need to be fellowshipping to start seeking that right fellowship. That's right.

That's right. So we're about to take a break in just a moment. But as we close out for the first session, we just want to challenge you. Where are you at in this process?

Are you affecting change and are you a change maker or are you a part of the problem? We'll be back in just a moment. Thank you, Bill. Thank you, Bill. Welcome back to Man Talk Radio.

And, you know, Roy, as you were you were we were signing off for that the first half of the show. I wanted to come back and I had a second scripture here from Proverbs 29 before you get into some other statistics that you have. Proverbs 29 verses 22 and 23. And we were talking about the you know, in 22, we were talking about friendship with an angry man and how if we, you know, continue to stay around individuals like that, that we would take on some of those characteristics. Proverbs 29, 22 and 23 says, an angry man stirs up strife and a furious man abounds in transgression. A man's pride will bring him low, but the humble in spirit will return honor. You know, that says that says myriads and myriads of things about not going and bringing ourselves down to a level of someone's anger or someone's fury when they feel as though that they have been, you know, some type of racial incident have occurred. Right, right. I wonder, Will, statistically speaking, what if they're measuring this, what people's response time is today versus what it was, say, 10 years ago before you had texting and social media, we could post immediate responses where you were coming in.

You naturally were forced to think about what you were going to say because you had to compose it or pick up the phone and call and talk to somebody, right, whereas today you just get on a handheld phone and smartphone and you type a response to someone else's commentary or to someone who said something to you without thinking about how you get ready to reply. The carnal takes over the spiritual, I think, oftentimes and just runs right over what we know to be right by just an immediate response to your scriptures. And humility is a hard thing to practice. It is. But it's the greatest thing because Christ told us the least among you shall be the greatest among you.

And what does that say? That means those who are serving and are just basically worried about others and loving others first are going to be the greatest among us. And if we're jumping out and jumping on top of people and say I'm going to outdo you by what you just said and I'm going to tell you how I'm right and why I'm right and you're going to listen, then that's not a good position to be in.

No. Because, again, it just brings ourselves down to their playing field, so to speak. Right. And we don't want to play ball in the enemy's court. We want to keep it in the court of Jesus Christ and let the word of God speak for us. Amen. Amen. Because we've talked before, Satan's out to steal, kill, and destroy.

And all he has to do is get something in your mind and he starts working on you. That's right. I mean, you know, in Revelations chapter 12 and verse 10, it says John saw and he said, I heard a loud voice from heaven and the kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ where the accuser of the brothering is cast down that accused us before God day and night. And that's what he's doing.

Yeah. See, every day he's holding his fist up at God saying, see, God, I told you they won't listen. I told you they quit going to church.

I told you, you know, they're going to play ball in my field. And God sees Jesus Christ in us. And see, that's the beauty. But if we know that the enemy is doing this, this should give us more of insight to say I'm not going to go there.

I'm going to keep it where God wants me to be so that I can be the most effective in my deliverance of the message to the person who I'm speaking to, but also giving God the greatest honor. Amen. We were talking about statistics. Yes, sir. Come back to racism piece.

You got some. Yeah, this is, again, back from the same article that we were talking about earlier with the Nelson Mandela quote. Studies show that racism persists in America still. People with black sounding names had to send out 50% more job applications than people with white sounding names to get a callback. A black man is three times more likely to be searched at a traffic stop and six times more likely to go to jail than a white man. If a black person kills a white person, he or she is twice as likely to receive a death sentence as a white person who kills a black person. Blacks serve up to 20% more time in prison than white people for the same crimes.

Blacks are 38% more likely to be sentenced to death than white people for the same crimes. Racism persists in America's churches as well. Only 32% of white pastors strongly agree that my church is involved with racial reconciliation at the local level. 53% of African American pastors strongly agree with this statement. Only 56% of evangelicals believe that people of color are often put at a social disadvantage because of their race. 84% of blacks agree with that statement that people of color are often put at a social disadvantage because of their race. A recent study showed that 86% of America's churches are composed of one predominant racial group, whether it's Asian, Korean, African American, Caucasian, whatever it happens to be. While 90% of Protestant pastors say their congregation would welcome a sermon on racial reconciliation, only 26% say leaders in the church have encouraged them to preach on the subject. Back to what you mentioned earlier, Will, if it's not being talked about, you as the congregant or the board member or elder should go speak to the pastor and say, hey, we've got the heart to love people, we just need to be talking about how we're going to do something about this and encouraging it.

That's right, because it's rampant, it's an epidemic, it's something that has always been in our society. And we've got things that is available to us and we can talk about these things and we can actually give solutions regarding these things, but we can't do the things for you. We can talk about what you need to do in order to do these things, but we cannot do them for you. That's where it takes you, the listener out there, you listening to what we're talking about now, you are the one, as it was stated through Roy and myself earlier, go to the pastor and say, hey, these are issues that we need to discuss. We don't have to discuss them as a large congregation, but maybe in small groups. However, the Spirit of God leads you to do it, but it needs to be done.

Yeah, it does. I would encourage you as well, if you're listening and you have the motivation and drive to go speak, don't just go with the problem, take a solution to your pastor. Take two. Come with solutions or ideas of how to engage and move the needle forward. Because folks we all know are pastors are overworked, they're one person or two people or five in a church of many, many, many hundreds, trying to care for a lot of folks. And it's most helpful when you pray about this ahead of time, go in and sit down and talk and have some ideas that God's put on your heart to help share.

And maybe you're the one that's going to help be the catalyst to move this project forward. And I might add, you said pastors are overworked and I just want to add an underpaid too. You know, because you can't, you really can't get paid enough to what a pastor goes through, you know, all of the things that the congregation don't see. You know, the continuous prayers, you know, the sore knees from being on his knees, going to God, praying in reference to a project or, you know, some finance that needs to come through. You know, it's constant, you know, the calls, nonstop calls and each call that that pastor get, they get it and the individual on the other end, they expect you to respond, you know, when they call.

It's not I'll get back with you in a day or two. They want some response now. So if you have a congregation of, you know, a small congregation of two or 300 people, you know, and you're getting calls like this constantly. Hey, you know, my aunt is in the hospital. Can you come right now? They're about to do surgery and we just want you there with us, you know, or we have a son or wayward daughter, you know, that's gone awry. You know, can you come over and pray for us because they're in jail and we need them to get out and we just need you to share a couple of words of encouragement. All these things is constant.

Yeah. Well, and then that goes back to the importance of supporting your pastor properly because it may be that you're supposed to move out of your comfort zone, you as the person listening that's the congregant and then the church to go do something totally different. I would encourage you to pray about that because we all know that support network is so critical, so critical. And plus it helps bring the whole body closer together when you're already serving or loving the same Christ and the same Heavenly Father.

But if you're working together towards that end, how much closer and how much more blessed will you be as part of that congregation? So Will, the thing that comes to mind as we're talking through these statistics and it was certainly brought by a dear brother last week, you know, we only can report what we read. You know, I don't have all the data behind this, but it seems reasonable on what the commentary is and they didn't provide a statistical backup, so I can't speak to where it came from other than it was through the Christian Post. And generally speaking, we should be able to trust what it is.

But what's interesting is that people of color, we'll say in this particular case, seem more open to the idea of mixed congregations or realizing there is problems within the crime rates and all those sort of things. And certainly we all know that starts at childhood, so much of that does. And this goes back to about man talk, what this is all about. It's about you moving forward in your responsibilities as the spiritual leader of your family, as also the head of the household. And part of being that spiritual leader is being the servant and modeling the Christ relationship for your children and for your wife or for your significant others. And if you're listening and you've had children out of wedlock, we're going to challenge you to become that father that that son or daughter needs you to be. Because your their future is in your hands. And if you're serious about that role, then we're going to encourage you to engage in that child's life. Amen. Exactly. You know, because one of the keys there that I like from what you ended with, Roy, is modeling. So if you if you are modeling who Jesus was, then your family will model you. The statistics show families more likely be in church if the father ninety three percent success ratio, the wife and the children will follow.

If it's only the mom, it's like in the 30 percent range. Folks, we thank you for joining us. This is Man Talk Radio. I'm Roy Jones and I'm Will Hardy. And we'll talk to you next week.

All right. As we wrap up today's show, be assured that TAWCMM talking and walking Christian men's ministry is building a community of men that are Christ followers with a desire to be servant leaders in their homes, communities, churches and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings. Drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on Man Talk today. Visit us at www.tawcmm.com. Men walking the talk.