Jesus said, I came that you might have life and you might have it to the full. I mean, joy, purpose, peace. Here's my question. Is that what you're really experiencing?
And if not, why? Stay with me. That's today. Thanks for joining us for this Edition of Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram. Chip's our Bible teacher for this international teaching and discipleship ministry focused on helping Christians live like Christians. And in just a minute, you'll hear the remainder of Chip's interview with his close friend, Greg Dietrich. Greg is a marketplace leader with decades of corporate experience, who is also a board member here at Living on the Edge.
In the first half of their conversation, they discussed what it looks like to chase earthly comfort but be spiritually dry. Greg opened up about the harsh lessons he received from the Lord in this area that led to deeper intimacy with his Heavenly Father. Well, these guys have a lot of ground to cover today, so here's Chip with part two of his talk titled, Living Out Your Purpose.
Thanks so much, Dave. If you were with us in our last broadcast, I introduced to you a very close friend, Greg Dietrich, a man who's been very successful in the corporate world as president of KFC. A successful and personal life came from a great university, had the life that we all kind of would think we would want to have, but we talked last time, Greg, about how we can do all the right things and basically live the Christian life in our own energy that produces burnout and fatigue. And that life that, you know, Jesus talked about to the full, where there's real joy and, you know, everyone talks about this life that's overflowing from the inside out. And my experience in a lot of counseling with, I mean, everything from presidents to plumbers is a lot of people aren't experiencing that. Last time we talked about intimacy, about how you were doing all the right Christian things basically as a performance to earn God's favor. I mean, you didn't do that intellectually, but that's how it played out. And you were missing all the intimacy with God. But then as you begin to do adoration prayer and draw near to God and get his heart, he really invited you beyond even intimacy with him to partner with him so he could do through you what only he can do through you, like he has a plan for each one of us. So maybe you could kind of pick up the story and bring people up to date, because I just think there's a lot of people living where I've lived and you've lived, and they long for that joy and that life that we talked about.
Well, thanks, Chip. It's a real joy to be on here and to partner with you in this program. And I would start by saying I was one of those people. John 10-10, I remember reading that and stopping and saying, I know that's true because I believe the Bible, but it's not true for me. I love that Henry Blackaby in Experiencing God said, our main goal is to find out what God's doing and join in.
And that really became kind of the new paradigm for me. And one of the lies that he uncovered for me in this season, because a lot of my journey was the Lord was revealing lies that I had believed about him or myself. And one of the lies is that I believe God was in the big things like creation and salvation.
And, you know, I'd pray if we're going to have a move across the country or to take this job, but I didn't really believe God was in the day to day details of my life. So why would I partner with him if I didn't believe he was in the details? But God showed me that, you know, he really was.
And, you know, I didn't believe that in any given moment that he would partner with me to help me pursue a client or make a business deal, hire an employee, or even where I might go in a given moment for lunch or dinner that he might have an assignment for me. So it's interesting. I came across this quote from Rick Warren.
He said, When we ignore the Holy Spirit, there's really little difference between the way we live our lives and non-believers who live their lives disconnected and independent from God. And I thought, you know, I operate so much out of self-sufficiency that I believe that's true about me. And that quote really sunk deep in my spirit. But I knew in this season, the Lord was giving me an invitation and I was hungry. You know, I was desperate.
I was, Lord, I want to see your power break out in the details of my life. And one of the things that's always been true about me is when I'm confused about where the Lord is and what he's doing in my life, I ask myself, what does he put in my hand? What's he given me to steward?
He's not going to give me more to steward unless I'm stewarding well the things he's already given me. So I remember having this little conversation dialogue with the Lord just saying, OK, what's in my hand? All right, Lord, what's in my hand is a calendar.
You know, since I've retired, a lot of people want to get together and meet and just breakfast, lunch, dinner, just get together and talk. And I remember this question in my quiet time felt the Lord kind of nudged me with, well, do you think I care about your upcoming meeting with John or Tom? And I thought to myself, you know, like the Pharisees, I was like, well, this is a trick question because I know the answer is he does, but I don't really know what that means or do I believe it? And so I began praying for those meetings. Lord, what are you doing in John's life? What are you doing in Jose's life and how can I partner with you?
How can I build with you to accomplish that? So this whole notion of partnering is really believing that God wants to be involved in your daily life, believing that he can work through you to affect people and birth his kingdom, being available, surrendered and mindful to say, OK, Lord, what's it look like? And I remember one of the big leadership lessons I love to teach is Mark 1 because it really impacted me and it caught me off guard as a leader. And at the end of Mark 1, Jesus goes into Capernaum and he goes first into Peter's house and he heals Peter's mother-in-law. Jesus actually then has a day of amazing ministry, casting out demons. And then as was his custom, he goes off to be alone with his father. And the next morning, everyone's looking for Jesus.
Where have you been? The crowds are there. And you can imagine people flocking down from these nearby towns because they've come, they've heard. And Jesus looks at them and says, no, we're going to these other towns to preach, for that's why I've come. And I remember saying to myself, I would have never done that. I would have said, hey, Peter, line up. People need healing over here.
People have demons over here. Have Mary go get some towels, make sure we have water. And I'd be back and it would be day two.
And it wasn't that the first day was wrong. It was Jesus was so in touch with how the Father was leading him and how he was to partner with him to bring the kingdom that he was sent to bring that he knew he needed to make a turn. And so that became this poignant example for me of, Lord, I want to be available.
I want to be tuned in. I want to know what you're saying and what you're doing. And so a very simple phrase I use, Jesus modeled this. He said, I only do what the Father tells me to do, and I only say what the Father tells me to say.
And my reasoning was, well, if Jesus had to do that, how am I any different? And so I just constantly am finding myself in a state of mindfulness saying, okay, Lord, I'm here in this meeting. I'm here with this person. I'm here at the grocery store. What are you saying?
What are you doing right now? Because God's always at work. What Greg has described is breaking down the wall between secular and sacred. Listen how all of a sudden it's not I go to church or I even read my Bible and pray in the morning and then I go off and do my thing.
It's really a very, very different God is the God of the 24 hours, all 24 hours. It's as holy to read your Bible and talk with God as it is to go to work and be an electrician or be a stay-at-home mom and be taking care of some diapers or, you know, coaching the youth team or going to a big powerful business meeting is we're his ambassadors. The other thing I would say to our listeners is, and I've learned this from Greg, how many times in the story that he told over the last few minutes did you hear the phrase, well, then I asked the Lord. Well, then it raised the question or it got me thinking and I begin to ask, I think it's your curiosity and your willingness to say, I don't think I've got this figured out, but here's what I would say to our listeners. This is the last time when you were praying or when you were stuck or when you were frustrated, instead of trying harder, you said, Lord, what would you want me to do or what's wrong with this picture? I watched that unfold in your life and here's the deal, people. I'm kidding, Greg. It's not that he's special. When you ask a question, if you want to hear the answer, God wants to tell us, right?
Yeah. One of the things that happened was the Lord really had to break down my pride. I was very proud. I had a lot of knowledge and that knowledge really created this pride.
The first part of my journey really was God humbling me so that I could be teachable, so that I would ask those questions. I think you can choose humility. I didn't, but you can choose humility.
I make the joke now. I tried being humble, but nobody noticed. I really do try to be mindful of that. One of the stories I like to tell is early on, I was like, okay, Lord, if you really want me to partner with you on a daily basis, I remember going into the dry cleaners that day. I had a couple of shirts from a meeting I had had the few days before. As I went in, I said, okay, Lord, what are you doing?
What are you saying right now? As I walk into the cleaners, my neighbor's there. I helped her out with her clothing. I came back in.
As I did, I see that my shirts are gone and my order is up there from the shirts I had in previously. I look across. I've never seen this clerk before. This doesn't happen a lot, but I think the Lord was trying to teach me that he was involved in the everyday aspects of my life. He did want to use me to partner. I felt this nudge to just say, tell her she's a good detective. My immediate response was absolutely not. When you get prompted by the Spirit to do something, you almost have sweat and everything else. I'm fighting this. What it was, I was fighting, I said, Lord, I'm not going to do that because I'm going to look foolish. I don't like to look foolish. In fact, one of my strongholds probably is I don't want to be foolish.
I want to put on an image of having people think of me this way. I felt this response. Okay, fine. Tell her she's a good detective. I just mumbled, hey, I just want to let you know you're a good detective. She stopped me and she said, what did you say? I said, you're a good detective. She said, how'd you know?
I said, how'd I know what? She said, I'm studying to be a detective when I'm not here in this job. She said, I've been struggling with it because I don't think I'm good enough. I don't really know if I'm capable.
I'm doing it, but I don't know. I said, well, I just want to encourage you. God put you on my heart. He obviously knows you. He sees you. He knows what you're doing.
He wants to encourage you. She started to cry. I started to well up and I said, I'm going to get out of here before I look even more foolish. I ran out. I got in the car and I said, Lord, how many times have I missed the opportunity to partner with you because I have an agenda. I'm moving too fast. I don't want to look foolish.
I don't want to put myself in uncomfortable situations. I remember just feeling this overwhelming love of my father to say, let's do this a new way. You're listening to Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram, and Chip will be back to continue his interview with Greg Dietrich in just a minute. But I want to quickly remind you that this program is only possible because of the generosity of listeners like you. Consider supporting us today by becoming a monthly partner. Learn more by going to LivingOnTheEdge.org.
That's LivingOnTheEdge.org. And thanks for doing whatever God leads you to do. Let's rejoin Chip now for the remainder of today's program. What a beautiful picture and I've developed a much more sensitivity to what you're talking about and have had just so many of those experiences. And what has struck me is how many times do I get out of my car and whether it's the dry cleaners or whether it's to grab coffee or to walk into something and out of habit. And I've gone into training to break this, have my phone with me and be sitting in a line.
And here I am in a physical presence where God actually is and wants to do something. But it's that it's not about me. But if I open my phone, well, now this is all about me and people that are talking to me or I can get something done or I can multitask.
And it has really it gripped me to say, Chip, don't you understand your phone has a lot of great capabilities. But distraction is what the enemy does. You're my ambassador at this place at this time to notice what I'm doing right here. And I just think, you know, it's this challenge that's different than you shouldn't look at your phone so much, Chip.
Back to rules and guardrails. You know, you should do this. You should do that. And when you don't look at your phone, you're a good boy. And when you do look at your phone, you're a bad boy. You know, as opposed to I love you.
It's not about your phone. I actually have something wonderful for you and often through you. But it's hard for me to talk to you when you're always distracted. And so thank you for how you have helped me learn to partner with God in a much more moment by moment.
And, you know, that's not my world. It's, you know, preparing messages and they asked me to speak so and so. And, you know, I got to finish this book I'm supposed to write.
You have a line that I have used. It's the micro that leads to the macro. It's the little things in life. It's the little attitude. It's the little word.
It's the you know, I don't know if we're going to talk about our new big ministry to dry cleaners, but this was just a week ago. And the lady apparently had just bought it. And she looked completely flustered and people were in and out. And I just was prompted to say, are you okay?
I mean, that's done. And she just teared up. And I said, oh, what's going on? And I had no idea that she would tell me. And she poured out and began to cry.
And, you know, there are people in the back and I, you know, again, I don't want to look foolish. And I just said to her, would it be okay if I prayed for you right now? And she looked at me and said, please do.
So I do. And it wasn't a long or huge prayer, but I really prayed for her. And I walked out and when I walked out, there was a lady who happens to go to the church where I am. She just looked at me and said, wow, I guess God shows up everywhere where you are, just like a church. And I turned to her and I said, actually, God shows up for everybody everywhere that we are. I just asked her how she's doing and I couldn't not pray.
And she said, well, I saw you do that and I couldn't help myself. I got on my phone and I called my husband and I said, honey, I just saw the most amazing thing. And what I realized, it's not a sermon.
It's not a book I wrote. We're talking about partnering with a God. His heart breaks for the multitudes today like it did when he was walking the earth.
But his body isn't his physical body now. It's regular Joe's like you and me and the million or so people listening to us right now. You know, Chip, I love that because in that story you gave, you know, God gives us a daily mission then. Yes. You know, we get a daily purpose back and even though you're special, there's nothing special about you in that story that anyone else can't do.
No. There's nothing special about what I did that others can't do, but when you engage in partnership with the Lord like that, don't you feel life to the full? I mean, doesn't John 10-10 come to life for you?
It is, I call it spiritual adrenaline. It's like his spirit works through you and it happens in such small little ways and it mostly begins with awareness that God actually cares about these people. He's already been working before you get in this lane of traffic or before you show up at the meeting or before, you know, another mom with the baby that's crying looks at you like, what do I do now?
I mean, he's always already working and the life to the fullest isn't I do all these right things and then I have this amazing life and everything turns out my way. You're really describing a principle that God taught me. My daughter read a verse, you know, I was talking about Psalm 103, which I love. Well, she read through and read to 7, verse 7. The Israelites understood the acts of God, but Moses knew his ways. And when we draw close in intimacy, we start to understand the ways of God, how he rolls.
Yes. And one of the things you share, and I'm glad, you know, we haven't mentioned it much, but this whole journey is recorded in a book called Building in the Spirit, Discovering the Life God Destined for You. We really understand that this is what is God's call for everyone, but it happens in an environment of hostility and opposition and you have to contend for your purpose.
It is a battle. I mean, if you can be distracted, if you can be discouraged, if you can get taken down, I mean, you've been with me in some of my most dark times. I've called you and sat in the car and talked for an hour and saying, hey, I guess I know my perspective is really not good and I want to be really, really honest and a safe place, so I'm calling you, Greg. And could you take just maybe a word for people who are going, hey, I get what you guys are talking about, but my wife left me. We've been through cancer. One of my kids has told me they don't believe in God anymore.
I've lost my job. This happened in COVID, and by the way, it's still not fixed, and where does that fit into this life of joy and this abundant life that Jesus is talking about? You know, Joseph really became, in the Old Testament, his story really became a pivotal foundation for me, and I call it the Joseph journey. And in short, I believe it's the story of how God used tests, trials, and troubles to prepare us for our purpose. But I think also a big part of our purpose is that we become our purpose. God's planted it within us, but then our journey shapes us into the very thing God created us to be.
And those tests, trials, and troubles oftentimes I see God uses in a redemptive way to develop our character, develop our capability, allow us the opportunity to draw close to Him, to be shaped in new ways about who He is and who we are, and to see them through the eyes of this intersection where the enemy is going to try to use those things to take you out. He's going to discourage you. He's going to tell you lies about God, lies about yourself. He's going to try to sow seeds of despair. At the same time, God is saying, look up.
Look to Me for perspective. I am in this. I can redeem all things. Romans 8.28, which we all love, and we all have plaques somewhere in our past, or maybe a T-shirt where He works all things together for good. But I love to point people to Romans 8.29, which says, For those He foreknew, He predestined to be conformed into the likeness of Christ. So those very rough spots and tough spots, when we surrender, when we look up, when we allow God in, He uses those very things to make us more Christ-like and to catapult us more deeply into the purpose and the plans He has for us. And it's such a different prayer. It's hard to pray.
But when we have challenges, all of us, we're human. God fix this. God take it away. And I've learned, certainly, you know what, Lord, I'm your son, so I'm going to pray that.
You know, I would sure like a silver bullet, a quick answer. But knowing the purposes of God, I have learned to say, Lord, I don't understand this. And by the way, I'm not going to be a phony. I don't like it.
I don't like it at all. And I'm either sad or I'm mad or I'm struggling. And whatever you want to do to use this in my life, I don't want to miss it. What do you want me to learn?
What area do you want to shape? How do you want me to draw near to you? I can't change the circumstance. I can't change the economy. In one season, I couldn't change the cancer that my wife had, and I praise God that over time we made it through that.
You know, I can't change part of my history and some default patterns that I have. So, Lord, will you please show me? And again, it's that question that He longs to answer. And often, you know, this is a good sort of maybe point for the need for community.
So often that answer has come through people. You know, some of those big answers have come through you. You know, I've stayed at your house for a couple of days, and we've had deep talks, and people pray for me, and we've shared a lot. And I just want to encourage those that are listening. We are in a battle, but it's intimacy with God.
It's partnering with God, and then it's discovering this unique purpose that really is the source of incredible joy, that it's in giving your life away that you actually find it in ways that we can't get any other way in all the world. Well, Greg, thank you so much for these years of ministry in my life. Thank you for the long, hard journey of making it a book that can help others. And I would just say to you, if you long for the intimacy with God we've talked about, and you want to figure out how do you do this daily partnership and how do you find your purpose, get the book.
It's available at Living on the Edge, livingontheedge.org. This has been so helpful for me. Greg, thank you. Yeah, Chip, can I pray for our listeners?
Amen. So Father, I just thank you for the opportunity to share what you've done in and through me. I thank you for the Ministry of Living on the Edge and Chip and how you've used them and him to accelerate that journey. I pray for everybody listening to this, Lord, and just ask that regardless of what I said, that it would land in their spirit in the way they need to hear from you, that this wouldn't be a revelation about Greg or Chip or anything we've had to say, but about who you are and who you are to them and how they can experience more life to the full that you promised. And so Father, we just thank you for that.
We know that's something that you want to do. And so we pray that this would serve to glorify you and to equip, inspire, and just bring a sweet experience to each person that hears it. In Jesus' name, amen. This is Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram, and you've been listening to Chip's interview with his close friend and Marketplace leader, Greg Dietrich. To hear their entire conversation, check out the Chip Ingram app or go to livingontheedge.org. Those are also great places to learn more about our ministry and our many helpful resources. As we wrap up, I want to thank those of you who make this program possible through your generous financial support. Your gifts help us create programs, purchase airtime, and develop additional resources to help Christians live like Christians. If you've been blessed by the Ministry of Living on the Edge, would you consider sending a gift today? You can do that by visiting livingontheedge.org or by calling 888-333-6003. That's 888-333-6003, or visit livingontheedge.org. App listeners, tap Donate. We want you to know how much we appreciate your support. Well, from all of us here, I'm Dave Drouie, thanking you for listening to this Edition of Living on the Edge, and I hope you'll join us next time.
