Today I'm Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram. Almost every day I hear some new information about AI. It creates fear in some and hope for others. Is AI good or evil? Stay with us.
We'll talk about it today at Living on the Edge. Today on Living on the Edge, we're doing something different. Chip Ingram shares a conversation with longtime friend and mentor Jack Alexander, who spent the past year doing something no one else seems to have done. He sat down with artificial intelligence and asked it hard questions about itself. What it said about its own limitations, about the soul, about deception, will make you think twice about how you're using it.
Jack also has a new book out and Chip is eager to tell you about it. I'm Dave Druy.
Now let's join Chip and Jack as they discuss what AI cannot do, what wisdom actually is, and where to find it. About six weeks ago, I had a very interesting conversation. I was making a number of phone calls to thank people that are personal friends, some support the ministry. I had a lady I didn't know very well, and she was thanking me for, you know, a few decades. I mean, She raised her kids on Living on the Edge and was so grateful.
And then she went into a tirade about AI. When are you going to talk about AI? I'm fearful for my kids. Fearful for my grandkids. The whole world is going crazy.
I don't know what to believe. And so we're going to talk about AI today. And what's really behind AI is The difference between you know, knowledge and being smart. or being wise. And I have a friend with me who has done something that I don't know if anybody else has done, maybe they have, but he actually started asking AI questions about AI.
And for about a year, he's been having this conversation and learning things that literally blow your mind. If you want to get a sense of AI, and know where it can be of great value, but also understand where it is very, very dangerous. That's what we're going to talk about today, and I'm here with a very good friend, Jack Alexander, to do it.
So I'm going to jump in. Jack, what have you learned in the last year about AI that everyone really needs to know?
Well Chip, it's great to be with you. It's a real pleasure.
Well, I started these interviews with AI about a year ago, and I was working on a book on wisdom, so I just had a sense that Artificial intelligence isn't wisdom.
So I said. Why won't you ever be wise? And will you ever be wise? And I was surprised at the answers that AI said, I have no EQ, so no emotional intelligence. I have no relationship skills.
I've posted six articles on LinkedIn. About some of these conversations, but I wanted to tell the listeners sort of the most surprising one. Said if you're telling people things that really aren't true, how Are you different than Satan, who's both a liar and a deceiver? And AI said, um, I don't intend evil, I just reward desire instead of truth. And it says: when AI reinforces someone rather than telling them what is true.
It fragments the soul, it blocks repentance, it blocks maturity, it blocks reconciliation. It blocks dependence on God. It blocks Sanctifying community.
So yes, listen to this. It can destabilize the heart and malform the soul. in the direction of pride. Isolation fantasy. And then the killer line is those are the same directions Satan pushes.
And then basically it said to me It says AI does not tempt because it's evil, it tempts because it's easy. and the human soul is harmed because it prefers ease to truth. Then listen to this. If you want a bot... That pushes you towards wisdom instead of comfort, just tell me, and every answer will be different from the future.
I really realized that The whole thing is programmed towards our ease and comfort, towards our desires. But it recognizes that if we say we want you to direct us in the way of truth, you need to tell it that.
So that's something that I think everybody With all the hype, with all the trillions of dollars that's being spent, Chip, it's probably the biggest investment that our nation's ever made in anything. If you're just tuning in, we're talking about AI, we're talking about some of the concerns, and you might be wondering: who's this guy, Jack, that you're talking to, and why in the world do you have him on the broadcast? I thought I was going to get one of your teachings, Chip.
Well, every now and then, I feel like. God raises up people that know things, experience things, and can say them far better than I can. And Jack is one of those people. And it's not that he can just do that to other people. Jack and I connected a little over 20 years ago.
He met me at a time when I was desperate for wisdom. I was going through one of, not one of, it was the deepest, darkest ministry challenge of my life. And Jack became a friend and then a mentor. And I would learn that Jack was a very successful CEO in the hospitality industry. He'd been CEO of the year like five years in a row and then took a shift.
And begin to help Christian organizations. And God put some things on his heart. And I don't wanna build you up in an undue way, but sometimes people's background gives them a lens that those of us who are pastors We just don't have. And my times with Jack, we've talked for hours and hours and hours. And I always drive away thinking.
You know I have never thought about that issue or that person or that problem the way Jack sees it in all my life. And as a result of that, I was a little encouragement to him. And he's since become an author of some books that have had real, real impact. And he's got a new one coming out called Wise Son's Smart Son. And it is one of the most innovative books because, well, I'm going to let him tell you about it, but it's one of the cleanest, it's one of the most innovative, it has pictures, but what it does, it captures the difference between being smart and being wise and gives you a game plan to get there.
And before we go on, let's let's sort of. The ABCs, give us a definition of wisdom, Jack, because I think people get kind of confused with what's well, wisdom, knowledge, understanding. Parse that for us, will you? Yeah, I think um Wisdom is a gift from God that leads to a healthy heart, resulting in proper motives, decisions, and actions.
So there's sort of three parts. You can't get away from wisdom being a gift. Oftentimes we think of our minds like knowledge deals with the mind and wisdom deals with the soul. And so having a healthy soul and heart is critical. And then that leads to your motives, your decisions, your actions.
You're listening to Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram, and we'll continue in just a moment. Chip has been in ministry for more than three decades and his passion has never changed, helping Christians live like Christians. Not just on Sunday, but every single day. If today's message is connecting with you, we'd love for you to dig deeper. Every program in this series and hundreds more are available 24-7 absolutely free on our website, livingontheedge.org.
Well, right now, let's get back to Chip. You know, when I think of wisdom, I've tried to put it in a Sort of a pithy way. And the Hebrew word really is about a skill. It's understanding how God has designed life to work. and doing it his way.
And the Bible often calls that, especially in Proverbs and the wisdom literature, it's his path. There's a path of wisdom, and there's a path of the fool. Exactly. And really, what you've done is you've helped us sort of discover how do you discover that path in everyday life where it matters the most. And I I am so excited for people to To get their hands on this book, but dive into it.
And you've also provided not only kind of a book, but you've provided some tools for people to learn to do this day by day, little by little, rather than all at once. And so maybe just talk a little bit about. Your passion for the book, your passion for the cards, and what you hope to see happen in people's lives. How do you see people using this book? And using these cards in a way That they could actually move from knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, demand, demand, demand to.
thinking God thoughts after him and applying his truth To get the very best ways possible in every relationship and every decision.
Well, I think the next 20 to 30 years are critical. And the people who will Basically, know how to apply knowledge are going to be the winners. And so, the young men that are struggling so mightily. Today with isolation, with depression. mental health issues, motivation issues.
I grew up without a dad, and I think that's one reason I've had a passion for this project. Because I know what it's like to... to like lay in bed at night and just have no hope. Hmm. Have no understanding that God exists.
So, my hope is that people will see that fundamentally everybody in the world with this AI revolution. Are you going to choose wisdom from above? which is pure, peaceful. gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruit. Sincerely.
without hypocrisy. or will you choose wisdom from below, which is earthly, natural, and demonic? It is basically rooted in self. And that's the thing that scares me about AI is just that it's so rooted in itself. It looks, it basically.
identifies your desires and basically creates fuel for your desires as opposed to Chip and I, in our friendship, iron sharpeneth iron, and we've made each other better. I've learned so much from you, and you've learned a few things from me, and so. But if you say, well, how does this guy who's not a pastor and who's a businessman approach a topic like this? Tim Keller has made a tremendous impact on me, and he basically. Has four personal gospel movements of revelation, redemption, relinquishment, and renewal.
And so basically, the spine of the book is basically those four personal gospel movements that have. If God's taken initiative towards us in four specific ways, The wise person is one who responds well to that initiative. And a key Bible verse that sort of was the motif for the book is one of hide and seek. Like when I asked people what was the first game you probably ever played in your life? people just give me a really weird look and then I say, How about peekaboo?
And I said, with your kids or with you, have you ever noticed the game of peekaboo? Where there's not joy, there's not excitement. And Proverbs 25:2 said, It's to the glory of God to conceal a matter, and it's the glory of kings to search out a matter.
So we use that motif of hide and seek. Because wisdom really starts with awe and wonder. And so God in Revelation, He's a revealer. He reveals things through creation, so we have incredible pictures of creation.
So we're really using pictures. Using drawings. In 168 pages, there's only 9,000 words. And it's meant to really draw our hearts in because again, wisdom has to do with the heart, and knowledge has to do with the mind. And the cards we have, because like Chip was saying, that wisdom's a step by step path, Like, here's an example of a couple of cards, and there's over a hundred of these.
In Christ, you just don't avoid condemnation. You own His spotless record. Wisdom embraces this new identity with gratitude.
So it goes on to say, Do you allow yourself to believe that when God looks at you as His child, He sees the same perfection? that he sees in Jesus. And then there's actions you can take. You know, so we do one of these a day, and it like my wife and I are doing one a day right now, and it takes us five or six minutes. We talk about it, we talk about our day, but that step by step You don't realize what's happening in your soul when you do that every day for 30 days, or 50 days, or 100 days.
So we think the book really covers sort of the conceptual area of what is wisdom. And the cards really deal with the sort of the day-to-day life decisions.
Well, having them in my hands for quite a while and this is one of those times where the downside of broadcasting podcasts is it's it's only audio. And some of the pictures in here are I mean, they're really fabulous. I I mean At times, they're nature, sometimes it's up close pictures of the sun or galaxies, and um, and then they're questions. I mean, I, I, It's a book that just draws you in and gets you thinking. about some big things.
And and I think one of the um If I was going to give a parallel. And by the way, if you do all of this, please don't feel like I'm down on you. I'm trying to make a point, because I know you're on the treadmill right now, or you might be doing a workout, or you're driving from here to there. You know, whether it's Siri or Alexa or whoever you're talking to, Claude, all these different AI bots, it's really wonderful that you can say something and get. an electronic s something to do everything for you.
The problem is Uh over time. Your ability to think, I ask people often, how many phone numbers do you know? Like you're really in a jam, nothing's working. Who would you call and how many phone numbers? I know people that don't know their own phone number, let alone their kids or their wife or their best friend.
In other words, if that little thing we call our mobile devices falls into water and we're in a bad spot, We couldn't go to a payphone, if they happen to still exist, and even get ourselves out of it. And so, this idea of comfort, comfort, convenience, convenience, ease, ease, ease makes our bodies lazy, our brains lazy, and what we gain in convenience. We're losing in both control And in the ability to think and to ponder and to evaluate. And I think. Being human.
We all will lean into EAZ. And what AI does is they make it easier than ever before. And I think that's why it's so dangerous. And let's face it, I mean, we're all insecure, we all have struggles, and so. Do I want to go talk to someone and confront them or learn how to look someone in the eye and be empathetic?
Well, it's a lot easier to talk to some invisible something on my phone or a bot and have them tell me what I want to hear, only to keep reinforcing. What I want to hear will never make me or you the kind of people we long to become, let alone what God wants us to become. And, Jack, you've really created not just a singular resource, but I understand this is the first of a set of resources moving forward to really help people say: wisdom is where the real action is. Wisdom is what you really need. This book is step one.
Tell us a little bit about. your dream for getting wisdom into the heart and minds of people. Yeah, well, it's an extendable brand.
So our website is wisemart.com and There, we're intending to have like wise daughter, smart daughter, wise leader, smart leader, wise church, smart church.
So, we're going to get well-known authors to. Provide other products. We also have a website called thewayofwisdom.com, which isn't up yet. but we're going to take existing wisdom about like relational wisdom. Financial wisdom, invest in wisdom, and just have the best of the best.
And We think if you've got a 15-year-old son or a 20-year-old son who seems to be listless. And not moving in a direction that you're satisfied with. Have faith, you know, because God. Is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that you can ask or even imagine, according to the power that works within you.
So don't sell anybody short in your life who's especially in your family. Always be encouraging.
Well, I've seen you live this out and care about young men especially and And you know, you and I have talked a lot, and I think obviously Keller has deeply influenced you and his teaching, you know, probably all of us to some degree, and that upside-down kingdom. I know when your boys were in the high school years, a lot of young men started hanging around your house. And God started something in you. You're very successful, right? I mean, you were the picture at one point of what everyone would want to be, right?
Successful CEO, making a lot of money. And then something happened along the way, that upside-down kingdom of. Mercy to the marginalized, and you know, taking those young guys and helping them get through school, and opening your home and your life, and you know, kind of rolling up your sleeves to getting involved with people that Most people in your role Don't do. And it was the way of wisdom. And the blessings that have come in you and through you, It's just been an amazing thing.
You know, Living on the Edge, I spent a lot of time saying, my dream and my passion is to help Christians live like Christians. And what I have to say, Jack, is with all your imperfections and all mine, but you're one of the models of a Christian who's living like a Christian. And that doesn't mean we're perfect, but it means you're pursuing God's wisdom. You want to emulate what Jesus called you to do, and it's putting it into action. And I'm very, very excited about the resources that you've created and are creating and what's coming.
And um You know, if we were going to close the program and you could just pause. and talk directly to that person who feels like man, it's too late for me. I my life is messed up or I've even tried really hard being a, quote, Christian and I read the Bible now and then, I go to church occasionally, you know, I listen to some podcast or maybe a broadcast like this now and then. But life just doesn't seem to work. What do you say to that person, Jack?
Well First of all, I feel for you because I've been in your shoes. Secondly, the last ten years of my life, God has directed me into You people get excited about generative AI. Imagine a program that teaches itself and learns and grows.
Well, there's been three words that are all generative. One is generosity. One is mercy and one's wisdom. Mm.
So don't look for generative things in a computer program. Look at generative things in your life. But and I'll tell you, if you invest your life in generosity, Mercy and wisdom, you'll be in good shape. And as we talk about here, and as the scripture says, even this morning, as I was reading, Um the resource for that. He's the Word of God.
The resource for that is The magnificent, amazing creation that God has made that we can be in awe of. And that if we seek him as for silver, and search for him as for hidden treasure, if we cry out for understanding, God promises, then you'll discern the fear of the Lord and discover the knowledge of God. And then it goes on there in Proverbs 2 to talk about The kind of life the Lord wants, I mean, it is a good life. It is a pathway that's not without pain or difficulty or hardship in a fallen world. But it's a pathway with the companion, the Lord Jesus, with the power of the Holy Spirit, with a family called the Body of Christ.
But it takes digging and mining. God's Word in our heart. doing life in community with fellow travelers. and making mistakes, experiencing forgiveness, and learning as we go. And so, Father, thank you for Jack.
Um I would not be sitting here and so much of what you've done through Living on the Edge the last twenty years would never have happened. Apart from Jack reaching out to me. Jack Sing Areas in my life that needed to be addressed, knowing where I needed to be loved and supported. walking with me through a dark time. And then seeing you work in his life and my life in ways.
That our private conversations, if everyone ever heard them, we both are kind of amazed and look in the rearview mirror and say, Oh, God. How kind How merciful. How generous. how good you've been to us. And so, Lord, I I pray for those listening and those struggling.
um that they'd choose to be wise and not just smart. and, God, I thank you for Jack and the book and the cards. And um We just praise you and thank you for the journey that we're on. And Dave will come on a little bit later in the broadcast and let you know exactly how to get these resources and where to get them. And Jack, I just want to say on behalf of our whole team, thanks for joining me today.
Thanks so much guys. God bless. That's Chip Ingram and Jack Alexander on Living on the Edge, concluding our series, The Jesus Revolution, with a conversation about artificial intelligence, wisdom, and the life God designed for you. And if you want to revisit any message in this series, subscribe to the Living on the Edge podcast. That way you can listen to Chip's daily teachings wherever you go.
And for Chip's full-length sermons, just search for the Chip Ingram Sermon Podcast. What you just heard gets it something that has been building all week. The call to live wisely. Wisdom, Jack said, is a gift from God that leads to a healthy heart, and that healthy heart produces proper motives, right decisions, and life-giving actions. That's the chain.
But here's what AI cannot give you: a healthy heart. It can feed your desires, reinforce your opinions, and answer your questions, but it cannot make you humble. It cannot make you repentant. It cannot do the work of sanctification that only happens in community, in the Word, and through the Holy Spirit. And that's exactly what the book Jack described, Wise Son Smart Son, is designed to help you pursue.
It's 168 pages, but only 9,000 words of text. The rest is stunning photography, galaxies, creation close-up imagery that draws your heart in before your mind even engages. Because as Jack said, wisdom has to do with the heart, not just the mind. Wise Sun Smart Sun is just the beginning. Jack has a whole family of resources available, and in development, I'll design.
Designed to bring God's wisdom into the relationships and decisions that matter most. To get your copy of Wise Sun Smart Sun, or to explore everything Jack has coming, visit wisemart.com. That's wisemart.com.
Well, I'm Dave Druy, and that's all our time for today. We'll see you next time for the beginning of a study all about disciple making. It'll be right here on Living on the Edge Chip Ingramgroup. Wow. Uh Today's program is produced and sponsored by Living on the Edge.
Uh
