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When Christians try to change the culture, does that mean we're trying to take over the world and impose our religion on it? It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on The Line of Fire. This is Michael Brown coming your way live from Herzliya, Israel with our tour group. In fact, we got a few folks from the House of Prayer in Texas, the King's House of Prayer that faithfully supports us sitting in on the broadcast tonight.
Just met with the whole tour group at 85 folks just arriving over the hours. So, had dinner, we had our orientation meeting and everybody thrilled to be here and I want to talk about a sensitive but very important cultural topic today that ties in with American believers, believers around the world, but in particular in America. And if you'd like to weigh in, if you've got an opinion, the number to call is 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. But as I did last night, we'll also take calls, random subjects, other things you want to talk to me about. By all means, give me a call, 866-34-87884. If you've got an issue with me, if you want to tell me why I'm blatantly wrong on something, by all means, give us a call.
Tell the whole world what I got wrong. We'll have a friendly discussion 866-34-87884. Okay, I just want to give you a little background about last night's broadcast and why it sounded the way it did as opposed to our studio quality as I'm with you live from Israel. So, we're using a portable unit tonight and I've used this around the world. I've done it from India in the middle of the night.
I've done it from Singapore, Malaysia in the early morning hours. Crazy time zone changes all over America and it enables us to do studio quality broadcasts from anywhere in the world. Now, when you call in, we might have like a second delay interacting, but everything is good. Sounds, as you know, like I'm right in the studio at home.
The only thing is you don't get to watch if you're on YouTube or Facebook. I think I started to brown channel there. So, yesterday I was supposed to arrive a little before nine in the morning. I had executive service that gets me straight through the passport control, the luggage, get to the hotel, and then I was supposed to meet with a grad, do an interview. This is someone on the ground here in Israel, certified tour leader, fluent in Hebrew, speaks Arabic as well.
There's amazing outreach in the Muslim and Jewish communities. We were going to pre-record an interview and then I was going to go with him, answer some Bible questions from folks that wanted to meet with me. But because I was delayed at the airport seven hours where they told me why I could not enter the country, etc., and thankfully, by God's grace, everything worked out and here I am. Because the whole schedule changed, I was not able to pre-record a show. I didn't have the radio equipment which arrived with the tour group. So, we said, okay, I will call in using my cell phone. Well, that didn't work. Literally two minutes before the show, we're trying to call the landline here in Israel.
Somehow, we're not making that connection. So, I said, wait a second, I've got a Skype connection, I've got a mic, I can dial in. Well, I didn't have, you have to have credit with Skype to make a phone call. So, I had to buy the credit and literally a minute or two before things, before the show started, we finally connected properly. But the sound quality was not that great.
So, my apologies. And if you called in, it was almost impossible for me to hear what callers were saying. But we got through it and we love coming your way live from around the world. And so thrilled to have this opportunity. Tomorrow, our Thoroughly Jewish Thursday broadcast, I'm going to pull some folks in from the tour group and have them ask some questions as well. We'll take your calls too.
So, 866-34-TRUTH is the number to call. So, friends, it's very common that we who are followers of Jesus, when we get politically active, when we get active in the culture, when we work against laws that we think are bad laws, when we seek to advocate for laws we think are good laws, when we get involved in the school system, things like that, we are told that this is like Christian Sharia, like radical fundamentalist Islamic law. That's all we're doing. It's Christian Sharia. We're trying to impose a theocracy. We're dominionist. We're trying to take over. Now, there are Christians that hold to a dominion theology that they say that it is our calling through the Gospel basically to take over the world.
And they may hold to that in even some extreme forms. That is not my position. I categorically reject that position that we are to take over.
And it's really very, very few Christian leaders that I've ever heard articulate things in that way of some type of aggressive spiritual takeover and imposing our values on the society. I wholeheartedly oppose the idea of theocracy. I wholeheartedly oppose the idea that in this age that the church will somehow take over the society and then subject the society to biblical law. I oppose that idea. I oppose that concept. It is absolutely not what I advocate or believe to be right or biblical. At the same time, I absolutely believe that as followers of Jesus, we should be making a positive impact.
As followers of Jesus, as salt and light, so as the moral conscience of the society, as those bringing a perspective of what is right and best based on biblical grounds, that we should be making a positive difference. And if you're in a school system and there's all kinds of ungodly curricula being put forward and all kinds of aggressive stuff being taught that you just feel is wrong, well, get involved in the school board. Not just meeting with them, but run for school board. Somebody's got to do it. Why not?
Inform your folks in the church. When it comes time to vote, here are the issues. Here's where we stand biblically. Here's where we stand on race issues. Here's where we stand on life issues. Here's where we stand on other issues. Security, immigration or Israel based on our understanding of Scripture. Here's where different candidates stand. Now pray and vote accordingly. We should do that, but that is different than trying to take over.
So what I want to do is lay out some principles for you because some would say, well, why bother? The world is always going to be the world. People are going to be in rebellion and sin until the day that Jesus returns.
We know that. Scripture is clear on that and to me it's very clear. I do not believe that the Gospel is spread through the entire world and the whole world will become Christian before Jesus returns. I don't see that scripturally. Post-millennial friends see that scripturally. Christian leaders like Charles Finney and Jonathan Edwards believe that. I don't hold to that. I don't believe that's what Scripture teaches. So I agree there's going to be darkness, there's going to be rebellion right until the last moment. I do not expect America to ever become some type of perfect Christian nation.
I don't see it. It's never been a perfect Christian nation. Far from it. We've got some great heritage. We've got some bad heritage.
Alright. That's the fact. We've got some beautiful history. We've got some ugly history. But America is part of the world. America is fallen. The rest of the world is fallen and it's going to be fallen until Jesus returns and some say, according to Scripture, things are only going to get worse before he returns so why even bother to try in any way to bring about any kind of change?
That's what many people hold to. Well, let me tell you why I absolutely oppose that mindset. To say again, without the idea that we are supposed to somehow take over the world or take over society, let me say plainly why I do believe that we are called to make a difference. The first question is, what does light do? I mean if we are the light of the world and we are called to let our light shine, well then what, pray tell, happens when the light does shine? And how does the light shine?
And doesn't the light expose darkness and isn't there a conflict in that? If we are called to be the salt of the earth and all that that means is that we remain salty, then how can we be salty and how can we shine light without making a difference? And then Jesus calls us to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and he speaks that we are blessed when we are persecuted for the sake of righteousness and Paul writes that the kingdom of God is not a matter of meat and drink but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit so Matthew 5, 10, Matthew 6, 33, Romans 14, 17, then righteousness is part of who we are and what we do even as New Testament believers. And the mandate in Proverbs and elsewhere in Scripture to advocate for the poor, to advocate for the needy, to advocate for the orphan and the widow, to reach out on behalf of those who are perishing, those words never changed and Jesus exhorts us in Matthew 5, 16, to let our light so shine before men that they may see our good deeds. So we go about doing good. We go about making a difference.
We go about reaching out. We go about preaching the gospel and making disciples. So another simple question, how do disciples live? What does it mean to be a disciple? How do disciples live?
It's a simple question. If someone is genuinely saved, if someone gets the heart of God, how would a disciple live during the days of slavery? Would a disciple be expected to stand against the evil of the slave trade? Would a real disciple be expected to continue to have slaves who have been kidnapped and captured and brought over against their will and are now in bondage and servitude against their will? Would a real disciple say, hey I've got to release my slaves, free the slaves? How can you be a genuine disciple and not be involved in doing practical good?
And here's the other question. Why is it okay in a democratic republic like America for everybody to try to change the world except Christians? You can be an activist in the world. You can be a transgender activist and change the world. You can have a various burden for social justice in different ways. You can be racist and think America is too religious and you may try to change America.
You have every right to as a citizen of this country. Everybody can try to bring about a change in ideology and how do you do it? You live it out personally. You advocate for it however you can. It could be in social media. It could be in media. It could be in the education system. It could be the way you raise your kids. It could be what you preach in the law.
Whatever ways we have, we do our message out and then we vote. So why is it okay for everybody else to do it? Why is it okay for progressive Christians to stand for whatever kind of political cause they want? And that's fine. But the moment a Christian conservative does, we're called dominionists and people who want to set up a theocracy and try to take over and impose Sharia law on others. Isn't that peculiar?
Isn't that odd? Alright friends, we are going to just address an audio issue that I was just made aware of. Hopefully it will resolve itself momentarily. Number to call is 866-348-7884.
866-34-TRUTH is the number to call. We'll get involved in a healthy discussion about these issues. If you think Christians are too involved politically in America, in many cases it's true. We've gotten seduced by politics and put our trust in politics and become appendages of political parties which is unhealthy and destructive.
At the same time, many others have completely abandoned the process. There is a healthy medium. We'll be right back. I'm Paul Burnett, a board-certified doctor of holistic health. Over the years I have helped countless people increase and maintain their natural energy production with Alfred Libby's Slow Dissolve Super B12 sold only by Trivita. I have never met anyone deficient in caffeine or sugar, but I have met many people deficient in energy-supporting vitamin B12. Vitamin B12 is one of the eight B vitamins and is an essential nutrient, meaning the body cannot make B12 on its own. You see, unlike other oral B12 supplements, Alfred Libby's Slow Dissolve Super B12 is fast-acting because the formula is scientifically developed to dissolve under the tongue, bypassing the digestive process, making it immediately available for use in the body. Alfred Libby's Slow Dissolve Super B12 is also formulated with other natural energy-supporting ingredients such as folate, ginseng root, and other natural ingredients. Not only are the ingredients beneficial for energy, but they also support healthy cognition, mood, nerve function, and natural hemoglobin production. You deserve to live with greater energy and mental clarity, and now, like millions of others, you can with Alfred Libby's Slow Dissolve Super B12 sold only by your wellness partner, Trivita. To place your order for products to support your wellness goals, call 1-800-771-5584 or online at trivita.com as a Trivita introductory offer.
Use promo code BROWN25 and receive a 25% discount on the products of your choice. That number again is 1-800-771-5584. 800-771-5584. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.
Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back, friends, to The Line of Fire. Michael Brown coming your way live from Herzliya, Israel. Tomorrow, we should be coming your way live from Galilee. Yeah, we've got some of the tour group with us here in Israel. Hopefully, in a future time, you'll be able to join me here in the land.
We've got folks from as far away as Australia on the trip with us and from all over America and then another couple from London by way of Cyprus which is just like an hour flight away. 866-34-TRUTH is another call. If you want to ask me a question about any subject, I will take some calls a little later in the show. 866-34-TRUTH. I've got with me a dear brother, friend, Rui, who leads a house of prayer in Texas and has been a real intercessor for our ministry as well as having a great heart to pray for Israel.
So he's here with his wife, Stacey. How many from the house of prayer? I'll be a total of seven.
All right, total of seven. So these folks faithfully support our ministry in prayer. I'm deeply indebted to all of them, the burden they carry and it always gives me confidence when I know they're praying and standing behind us. But Rui, when the Lord laid it on your heart to really support our ministry in prayer, so of course Jewish outreach is real important to you, but the culture issues, the culture wars, these were things that were really big on your heart as well. So how is it that as someone called, especially intercession, you preach, you minister in other ways, but the main calling is intercession. How was it that the Lord burdened you for America?
Is there something specific he's laid on your heart? Do you feel that there can be change that comes? Give us a perspective from the prayer room. Well, yeah, Dr. Brown, just studying the history of our nation and what it was founded on, on some Christian principles. And for me, it was mostly discovering the moves of God that had taken place here in America that really opened up my eyes, that we truly have a history where God has brought historical revival and it began to change the landscape of our nation and even in culture issues. And so my burden began when I started reading books on revival, the first is Second Great Awakening, the Businessman Revival, Azusa Street, even the Jesus People Movement in the early seventies.
When I began to realize that God really has moved in the past in our nation and he wants to move again. And so just seeing the history and believing that God is still on his heart to bring another outpouring of his Spirit upon our nation. And I believe when he does that, I believe God has raised up America in such a way that we have a lot of impact and influence on the world right now. And so as he touches this nation, I believe he'll touch other nations as well.
Yeah, absolutely. Amen to all of that. Now someone might say, but listen, it's just a matter of people getting saved. We win people to the Lord, they get saved, enough people get saved, culture changes. Well hang on, how does it change unless these people are made into disciples?
Right? Now if they're made into disciples, doesn't it mean that they're going to live differently and do the very things we're talking about? And what about Christians doing the job of disciples in any place where God's put you? Friends, it's not primarily from the pulpit that change is going to come. You may be motivated and stirred from the pulpit, but change is going to come as you and I live out the Gospel in the workplace, in the schools, in all these different places of wherever God's put us and what's going to drive the engine of powerful Gospel preaching and drive the engine of powerful social change through the Gospel is prayer. Corporate prayer, secret prayer, individual prayer. Ruhi, what do you feel in terms of your vision can happen when God's people really give themselves to prayer? Well I believe that when God's people give themselves to prayer, I believe that they're actually walking in their identity as a house of prayer for all nations.
I believe that Jesus was very clear to us in the Scriptures. He says, my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations. And so I think one of the main issues in the body of Christ in America is our lack of prayer and a great amount of prayerlessness in our churches and I think that has resulted in making members in our churches instead of disciples in our churches. And Dr. Brown, you know I think of the Great Commission, Matthew 28, you know people think that the commandment is to go. Actually the commandment is to make disciples of all nations and so one of the ways that we make disciples is that we have to lay the foundation of a life of intimacy but also a life of prayer as well.
And so that's Discipleship 101 and that's one of the ways that I was discipled was learning how to value and make prayer a priority in my walk in relationship with the Lord. Alright, one other question, and by the way, we didn't know that he was going to be sitting doing an interview with me. I just, while they're in the room here, I said, hey, come on over here bud. And again, you weigh in 866-34-TRUTH. But one more question and we've just got a couple minutes before the break.
Talk to us, give us a picture, especially someone that may not be that familiar with it. The type of spiritual warfare, demonic resistance that you battle in prayer, what does it mean to wrestle, to battle in prayer? Well, I think of all times I believe we're experiencing that now. As you know, Dr. Brown, there's a global call to pray and fast for Israel and the Jewish people and I think that sometimes prayer actually will create warfare. I think of Daniel chapter 10, when Daniel set his heart to pray and fast for 21 days.
As you know, Dr. Brown, a war breaks out in the second heavens with Gabriel and the prince of Persia and then later the prince of Greece. And so prayer is spiritual warfare and it creates spiritual warfare. And I've seen in our house of prayer context, when people begin to increase their life of prayer, they begin to experience greater measures of spiritual warfare and sometimes they wonder why and I go, well, because you started praying more. And I believe that prayer sometimes picks a fight in the spirit realm and it's one of the most powerful weapons that a believer can carry is a life of prayer. And when you're fighting this battle though, if you could describe what it feels like to fight a spiritual battle. I mean, we know what it's like to physically have opposition and resistance.
We know what it's like to walk through knee deep water. In a minute or two, what is it like to battle in prayer? Well, for me, what it feels like mostly to me is it feels like there's hindrance. It feels like there's a roadblock.
It feels like sometimes even the heavens seem brass. It feels like I'm not breaking through in my prayers. And I believe, as I think of Daniel chapter 10, I believe it's because my prayers, my words that are coming out of my mouth are actually creating a spiritual warfare in the second heavens. And I think there's things that the enemy wants to hinder from coming to me and that's the answer to my prayers. As we see in Daniel 10, I believe that there was hindrance to Daniel's prayers, but we know that a victory took place and angel Gabriel actually came to Daniel in Daniel 10 and gave him skill to understand.
And I believe that's one of the things that he was setting his heart to do. And so for me, what it feels like to me is I just feel there's a resistance, but it causes me to even persevere and endure in prayer even more until the breakthrough comes. I think a lot of times people, they stop too early, but the New Testament teaches us to persist in prayer and if we'll continue to persist in prayer, we will break through and the answer will come. That's one of the things that we don't hear a lot in the church today, the prayer that breaks through, the prayer that secures answers. We don't quit until we get an answer that is secured. And sometimes I stop praying for something because I have a witness that I broke through in prayer and I know that the answer is going to come and faith rises in me and I know that that battle has been won because I pray through that battle. Yeah, and friends, there's been talk, we don't hear as much about it, persevering prayer. And any, listen, any good thing that you want to see happen, I touched on this yesterday, any major thing that you want to see happen, any real breakthrough, it is not going to come easily. There's going to be resistance.
If there's no resistance, it's not that major, it's not that important, it's not that challenging. So you can be assured the battle will come. Do you know how much prayer went up for the overturning of Roe v. Wade? Do you know how many decades of prayer and crying out? Do you know how many centuries of prayer have been going up for the salvation of Israel and the Jewish people? There are major things, details, obstacles that we will face, but Jesus is Lord and his kingdom is advancing. So when we come back, I want to give you some historical perspective that will really encourage you. I want to talk about the balance.
I mean, how far does it go and when can we bring about change? What can we expect? Well, take your calls too.
You get to weigh in. 866-34-TRUTH. We'll be right back. Hey friends, this is Dr. Michael Brown. I want to invite you to join our support team.
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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. You know, during the break, as we come your way live from Herzliya, Israel, it sounds like we're right next door to you, but we're here in Israel. As we come your way live, I was just telling some of our prayer team here that there has been an incredible response the greatest influx of funds in the history of our ministry since we announced it was time that God gave us the mandate to now expand the line of fire in major stations across America and blanket America with this word. Friends, we're going to come your way five days a week and infuse you with faith and truth and courage and we'll never back down from the controversies. We'll never back down from the tough issues because that's what we're called to do and tackle in serving you, in serving you, moms and dads and students, in serving you pastors and leaders, in serving you in the front lines of the business world or influences on social media, whoever you are.
That's why we're here. That's our job to equip and strengthen you. So as I've often said, let my head be the tip of the battering ram and our prayer warriors and others, our monthly supporters, the people that stand with us, you help run that battering ram into the wall and my head is, I'm wired to hit that wall. The things that would discourage others encourage me.
The things that wear out others invigorate me. It's calling and grace. So we'll tackle these things but we'll do it with love by bringing grace and truth and word and spirit together and by God's grace will be your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. So thank you for standing with us and those that want to join our support team. Remember we pour back into you with all kinds of free resources, multiple classes you can take online, free books, new messages every month.
Coming to Israel you get a discount. So we pour back into you. So join us at DrBrown.org.
Click on donate monthly support to find out more. Okay, here's the thing I battle with. If someone called to be on the front line of this moral and cultural revolution, here's some of what I battle with. We are never going to win a total victory, right? We're never going to completely change the world around us and it's going to be back and forth, right?
No matter how much we're bailing water out of the boat, there's still going to be leaks. So look, if you're winning someone to the Lord and they come to faith, they go from death to life, from the kingdom of Satan to the kingdom of God. They go from hell bound to heaven bound. They go from being children of the devil and children of God and they walk with the Lord and that's it. That is an eternal victory.
Boom! That's it. It's an eternal victory. Whatever struggles, hardships they go through, they were in the words of Reinhard Bonnke, they're plundering hell to populate heaven. This is what's actually happening. But when it comes to social change and moral change, you know that it's never going to be perfect and you know that it's only going to go so far because there's still going to be worldly people and people with different perspectives and the church is never going to be perfect and it's witness in life.
So you know that's the case. So you think, well, why bother to try to bring about change? Well, one reason is if we don't, others will. And soon enough we won't have the privilege of preaching the Gospel. Soon enough our most fundamental rights will be taken away from us. Soon enough our kids will not be, we won't be able to instruct our kids in the things that we believe. So if we do nothing, trust me, others will get involved and the situation will be such that you will not want to be living in the midst of it.
And Jesus hasn't come yet and rescues us out of it and here we are, right? Dietrich Bonhoeffer, I've often quoted him and said, the ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world that it leaves to its children. And I've often said that many, I don't want to condemn someone or throw a guilt trip on you, but I want to say this plainly, many of our kids and grandkids have every right to say to us, what were you doing when America was changed? What were you doing when our school systems were infiltrated with all kinds of garbage and junk? What were you doing when false ideologies came? What were you doing when so many of our fundamental rights were stripped away?
Mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, what were you doing? They have every right to ask us because these things have happened on our watch. So if we don't do what's right, others will do what's wrong. If we do not shine the light, the darkness will infiltrate us. As I've said for decades, I'm not so much concerned with the presence of darkness as much as with the absence of light.
That's the real issue that burdens me and that concerns me. I'm not trying to force the senator to be a saint. I'm not trying to force the world to live by Christian principles. However, if there is something which is a matter of justice and righteousness, I'm going to advocate for it. Just like I would advocate for the abolition movement during the time of slavery.
I advocate for the pro-life movement now in the time of abortion. Just like I advocate that we should not be sexualizing our children. No, I'm not saying force all children in the school to use the Bible and read the Bible, force everyone to go to church on Sunday or under penalty of law.
Absolutely not. That would be completely counterproductive. But I am saying don't indoctrinate our children with a radical transgender identity and tell them at the age of three that maybe they're a boy, maybe they're a girl, maybe they're both, maybe they're neither. You say, no one's doing that. It's being done. It's been done for years, friends. In fact, when I get back home, I left the books there.
I didn't bring them with me. But these two recent children's readers that I got about sexuality and about gender for toddlers and up from there, you'll see why we've been shouting what we've been shouting for almost 20 years now in terms of these cultural issues. So if we don't stand to do what's right, others will do what they feel is right, what they passionately believe is right and is the best interest of children, the best interest of family and so on. They'll go ahead with their ideology and then they'll get their people elected who will then get the justices put in place from the local court up to the Supreme Court. And now you live in America that has absolutely stripped away everything that made it good and right and godly on any level in the past. And that would be because we abdicated.
When I was on James Robinson's show to talk about my book, The Political Seduction of the Church, how millions of Americans confuse politics with the gospel, he said to me, but Michael, so I was on his show to promote the book, but he said, Michael, I believe the greatest seduction is when the church completely abdicates and has no role whatsoever. So it goes both ways. So friends, for me, I'm just looking at it like a tug of war. Remember playing that as a kid? So a line drawn, we used to play it in the beach, so a line drawn in the sand, literally, right? And you get different people on each end of the rope and you're pulling as hard as you can and once you get the other people to cross the line, you've won.
You're the last person over, you've won. But I look at it that there's going to be a tug of war in every generation. I just want the generation I'm part of to do more good than bad.
I just want the generation I'm part of to do what we can to preserve gospel freedoms, to stand for righteousness, justice, truth, life, and to make that positive impact and then in doing so, in doing so, we are now in a position where more people are blessed and more people are helped. If we have, just look at say feeding the poor, they're always going to be poor, but that doesn't stop us from caring for the poor, feeding the needy, and helping them, right? Jesus said the poor will always be among you. Deuteronomy says you're always going to have poor among you.
And yet, we do our best to minister to them. Why? Because it's still a life. It's still a person.
It's still positive. So we do what we can for positive change, but recognizing that if we only get people elected that we want to get in power, unless we are working even harder to change the hearts and minds of people, that there will then be a pushback against those views that will make things even worse than they were in the first place. All right, before I go to your calls, I just want to read something to you. This is in my book, Revival Answer Book, and I'm talking about the days of John Wesley. And I asked this question, have you ever heard of Reverend John Kirkby? How about Bishop George Lavington? The names don't ring a bell? What about Reverend Alexander Garden?
Never heard of him either? Well, maybe you're just weak in church history. I'm sure you do better with your knowledge of the word.
Let's take a couple of important biblical figures like Shafat, son of Hori, and Egol, son of Joseph. Can you place them for me? No?
Well, it looks like we'll have to make the test a little easier. Let's try some different names. Have you heard of John Wesley or George Whitefield?
Yeah, of course you have. How about Joshua, son of Nun, and Caleb, son of Jephunneh? Are their names familiar?
Of course they are. Wesley and Whitefield were two of the prominent leaders of the great 18th century awakenings in England and America. Joshua and Caleb were the Israelite elders who believed God's promises and led their people into the Promised Land. Who then were Kirkby, Lavington, and Garden? They were some of the ministers who hotly opposed and maligned Wesley and Whitefield. And who were Shafat and Egol? They were two of the ten Israelite spies who did not believe God's promises and died in the wilderness along with their unbelieving countrymen. Yes, we remember the names of those who stood tall for the purposes of God and their generation while the names of those who stood in the way have long since been forgotten.
So let's get this historical perspective. J. Wesley Breedy contrasts the harsh judgments of Wesley's 18th century opponents with the retrospective judgments of later historians. Writing in 1750, 12 years after Wesley's famous conversion, Rev. John Kirkby described, quote, the horrid blasphemies and impieties taught by those diabolical seducers called Methodists.
He continued, they pray in the language of a saint to be Elzebub himself, and their religion could be forged nowhere but in the bottomless pit. And how did he speak of Wesley himself, one of the saintliest men ever to grace the church? Kirkby called him, quote, that emissary of Satan whose religion is as opposite to Christianity as heaven is to hell and whose damnation will be just.
All right? This was a minister. Kirkby, the rector of Blackmon Stoke, warned people to stay away from these damnable meetings. Quote, you should be as much afraid to come near their assemblies as you would be to put your hand into the den of a cockatrice. Stay away from these diabolical Methodists.
That's my paraphrase. According to Bishop Lavington, the whole conduct of the disciples of Wesley and Whitfield was, quote, but the counterpart of the most wild fanaticisms of the most abominable communion in its most corrupt ages, while Dr. Smollett in his 1763 history of England could write of weak minds being seduced by the delusions of superstition. And by 1740, so just a few years into the ministries of Whitfield and John and Charles Wesley, quote, more than 100 anti-revival publications had poured from the press by the close of the century, their number with legion. Some works called the Methodist fortune tellers conjurers. Another author suggested legislation be passed to cut out the tongues of field preachers. And Alexander Garden actually succeeded in bringing Whitfield to court for contempt of his majesty and his laws for false malicious scandalous and infamous libel against the clergy in his province because Whitfield said many of the clergy weren't born again.
Mm-hmm. Now, here's a perspective from the French historian, Professor Elie Halevy, claiming, quote, it would be difficult to overestimate the part played by the Wesleyan revival in transforming England, actually calling it the moral cement of the society and stating that the revival explained the miracle of modern England. 1928 Archbishop Davidson observed that it was, quote, not too much to say that Wesley practically changed the outlook and even the character of the English nation. Well, in 1922, British Prime Minister Lord George said that the Wesleyan movement was responsible, quote, for a complete revolution affected in the whole country of Wales, that it was impossible to explain 19th century England without first explaining Wesleyan. He said you can't even understand 20th century America unless you understand Wesleyan. Hey, friends, don't you want your life to be like that with books written England before and after Wesley? How about America before and after your generation, my generation for the good? Why not?
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Thanks so much for tuning in. Okay, I'm going to the phones in a moment, but while I've got Rui here with me, I had turned him on to some of the Trivita products that I've been using. So nitric oxide, MyoHealth, and the Nopalea.
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We'll start with Parker in Ridge Point, West Virginia. Welcome to the line of fire. Thanks Mike, glad for having me.
You're very welcome. The problem we have in the world today is that there are so many false prophets out there from both sides of the aisle. One lady thinks she can bring angels to end the protocol rage theory. Another person thinks that they can bring vaccine numbers up. What are we supposed to do? How are we supposed to end up teaching the kids about Jesus in their nutcase on both sides of the aisle? Ah, so what do we do with all of this Charismaniac nutcases, which absolutely do exist. And friends, as the leader on the front lines of the Charismanic movement, I've probably been the loudest critic of abuses within the Charismatic movement from a leader in the movement. So, look, there are things that seem weird.
And Parker, I'll answer with all the candor I can. There are things that seem weird that are real and things in the Bible that like, oh, I don't know, but it's real. It's in the Word. And if you walk with the Lord long enough, you will see and experience some things that you think that's odd.
I mean, I don't know. And yet it turns out to be true and real. That being said, there is no question there is all types of Charismatic madness. Now look, each group, the non-Charismatics and the Charismatics, they each have their strengths and their weaknesses. And one of the weaknesses of the Charismatics is that we can get into all kinds of flaky weird stuff. And one of the weaknesses in the non-Charismatic camp is there can just be a lot of spiritual staleness and deadness, right? So, one gets worked up and fanatical and the other is dead. So, the healthy thing is healthy life, thriving life.
But, sir, you're right. Look, during COVID, it exposed a lot of false prophecy in the Charismatic movement, sadly so. And look, I told Justin Peters to his face when we met together some weeks back, Dr. Sam Storms and I with Justin Peters and Pastor Jim Osmond, just having an honest discussion as people with very, very different perspectives on these things, but as people who love the Lord and love the Word of God and love the body of Christ.
And I've said it, that Justin would not have to do a lot of what he does if we did a better job of cleaning up our own act within the Charismatic movement. All kinds of nonsense during COVID, all kinds of false prophecies and exposed a lot of bankruptcy in our midst. And then the flood of the false prophecies of Trump serving eight consecutive years, which did not happen. And people say, no, he really is president. Come on, have we lost our minds entirely?
How can you test everything, anything, if everything is fantasy? You know, if you prophesy tomorrow it's going to rain and it's going to be heavy rain tomorrow and it's dry as dust and you say, well, the Lord is sending spiritual rain, then you can't even test words and things. So we deserve some of the mockery that comes our way. And you say, Parker, how can we then just teach our children, well, let's do what we're supposed to do. Let's do what we're supposed to do and make disciples. The fact that there's a weirdo somewhere and there's someone else denying that God's even moving through Charismatic gifts today, and I look at those as both negative extremes that can be dangerous in different ways. Even for people who love the Lord, there's still dangerous extremes.
So what do we do? Well, we teach what's right. We do our best to be examples. And I know the fringe stuff often gets most of the attention, but that's not the norm.
That's not what's happening on a regular basis in most of our churches. It may be more popular in media and social media, but the vast amount of the work is being done in a more mainstream way. So while I continue to call out the fringes in our movement, Justin Peters would say it's not the fringe, it's the vast majority. I would, of course, differ with him respectfully there. But bottom line is, we can do what's right. We can teach what's right.
We can model what's right. Someone's going to do something crazy, I agree for them, I'll pray for them, but let's do what's right and let's set a right and proper example. Hey, thank you for the call and being so candid. Let's go over to Kevin in Dallas, Texas.
Hey, welcome to the broadcast, Kevin. Hey, how are you? Doing great.
Hey, quick question. How are you listening to the show right now? I'm on the phone now. I was told to turn off YouTube. Okay, got it. So just so you know.
Okay, great. So of course, on YouTube, of course, no one can see me today because we're just coming by audio from Israel, but you can spread the word. We are now live daily on K-word, K-W-R-D 100.7, I believe, FM.
So if you're in the car, it's a great way to listen. So for all of our new listeners and K-words, so glad to have you. But yeah, Kevin, go ahead.
What's your question, sir? Okay, I'm going to try to not be long winded and I'll just listen in from YouTube because I got to get back to work. Okay, great.
I was talking to this urban apologist. I, you know, I've watched his work for a while now. You may have heard of him, his name is Malone. Vocab Malone, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So you know, I talked to him, we were talking about Christ, of course. And you know, I was asking him some questions about the Jews in the last days, and it was very disturbing. So I'm hoping you can give me some ammunition and some study materials, maybe some scriptures I can look at to combat this answer in the future. But you know, he had the perspective that the children of Israel in terms of the children of Jacob proper didn't matter anymore. And that you can't even tell who the Jews are today, in actuality. And you know, I feel like there's a lot of research out there pointing to who's who. But for him to say that the position of who the Israelites are doesn't matter anymore, it was particularly concerning to me because there are several prophecies that talk about the good they'll do for the nations like Zechariah, the 14th chapter, for example. So I was hoping you could lay out some more examples that I could look at to just reinforce me, because this really shook me to my core.
Yeah, Kevin, I'm so sorry to hear that it had this negative shaking experience. First, vocab and I know each other. Vocab is deeply respectful of me and my work, and I so appreciate what he's doing. Vocab is the one who set up and moderated the debate I had with Guerrilla Hebrew on who are the legit children of Israel. And it could be that vocab is reacting against this black Hebrew Israelite ideology that claims that, say, the vast majority of African Americans are all the tribe of Judah, or the people of Haiti, or the tribe of Levi.
I mean, absolute nonsense like that. Yes, there are black Jews just like there are white Jews. That's not the issue. In number, it turns out there are many more white Jews today than black Jews, but that's not the issue at all. It could be that vocab is reacting against that, but without question, sir, without question, the role of Israel and the Jewish people remains critically important in God's sight. Romans 9, 10, and 11, that's your starting point. Romans 9, 10, and 11 lays out clearly that God has not given up on his promises. It lays out clearly that there will be a future national turning of the Jewish people. Romans 11, 26, all Israel shall be saved. It lays out clearly in Romans 11, 28, that even though the Jewish people are enemies of the Gospel on your account, so that by Israel rejecting the Gospel, it now goes to the Gentiles. Paul writes to the Gentile believers there and says, yet as far as election is concerned, their beloved because of the fathers in Romans 11, 29, for the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Paul writes in Romans 15 and 7 and 8, verses 7 and 8, that Messiah does not cancel the promises to the people of Israel.
Rather, he confirms them. Matthew 23, verses 37 to 39, after Jesus pronounces seven woes on the hypocritical religious leaders, he then bemoans the state of Jerusalem and says, you will not see me again until you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. In other words, Jerusalem will not see Jesus again until it welcomes him back as the Messiah. And since Revelation 1, 7 says that every eye will see him, that means that no one will see him until a Jewish Jerusalem welcomes him back.
And that is quite explicit. Luke 21, 24, speaking of the scattering of the Jewish people from Jerusalem to all the nations, that will happen and Jerusalem will be trampled down until the time of the houses are filled. So, Jerusalem will no longer be trampled down and the Jewish people will be regathered.
These are fundamental truths. Jeremiah 31, verses 35 to 37, God telling Israel no matter what happens, no matter what happens, he will preserve them as a people. And Peter preaching in Acts 3, beginning in verse 19, where he calls on his Jewish people to repent and turn to God, says that their repentance will bring back the Messiah. So the role of the Jewish people remains important. And a chapter that is being prayed over day and night now and millions of intercessors around the world praying for Israel right now from May 7th to 28th, it is Isaiah 62.
That is another passage to go to. Isaiah 62, where God puts watchmen on the walls of Jerusalem and tells them to never be silent, I talked about this yesterday briefly, to give themselves no rest and to give him no rest until he establishes Jerusalem as the praise of all the earth. There's a reason that Jesus is coming back to Jerusalem and not some other place. As for Jews today, yeah, we're clearly identifiable through our history, through DNA confirming it.
Many, many reasons we know who Jewish people are vastly around the world today. All right, friends, be blessed. Oh, Kevin, if you haven't read my book, Our Hands Are Stained with Blood, that would really help. Our Hands Are Stained with Blood. Blessings to you from Israel.
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