What We Learned about Politics and the Gospel

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Boys, the political season is just going to be heating up month after month in the days ahead. Have we learned our lessons from the past? Well, it is great to be with you today.

I was flying back from London yesterday and had the big debate on is Muhammad prophesied in the Bible Monday night in London. I'll give you an update on that in a moment, but great to be back with you live and greetings again to all of our new listeners in greater Phoenix on KPXQ. Here's the number to call. Anyone that wants to talk to you about anything under the sun, because I didn't take calls the last two days. Phone lines are open. It can be a Bible question. It can be a theology question, cultural question, political question, whatever. 866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-87884. Or if you want to set me straight, if I'm so wrong on a subject and you want to set me straight, give me a call.

Love to talk with you today. We've got a lot of things I want to cover. And let me tell you where we're going this week. I'm going to give you some good spiritual guidelines as we walk into what's going to be a very heavy political season the next two weeks.

The next two-plus years leading up to the presidential elections, or almost two years leading up to that. I want to give some good spiritual insight and counsel. I want to talk to you about the subject of debates.

Do they even do any good? We've got another major one coming up tomorrow night with a Hebrew Israelite. We'll be talking about that. Also, planning on talking with my dear friend Ron Cantor, lived in Israel for many years, a leading Messianic Jewish believer. There is a very dangerous law that's been put forth before in Israel.

It's never had a chance of passing, but it has more of a chance now of passing that would potentially outlaw preaching the Gospel in Israel. We'll be talking about that on our early Jewish Thursday broadcast tomorrow and then on Friday's broadcast. And I'm still trying to get my days of the week straight with my travel this week. Then on Friday's broadcast, as always, you've got questions, we've got answers.

Phone lines will be wide open. 866-34-TRUTH is the number to call. Before I get into the political scene and some useful spiritual perspectives for us to keep, especially with talk of potential arrest of President Trump and indictment from President Trump, let me start here. I have been challenged for years by a Muslim apologist in England named Zakir Hussain.

We are now officially friends, and he made very plain to me afterwards that he considered an honor to debate, so he's being as gracious as could be, now was apologetic for calling me out the way he did leading up to the debate. But challenging me for years to do the debate is Muhammad prophesied in the Bible. Now, my PhD is in Near Eastern languages and literature, that's true. And I do have three years of classical Arabic, that's true. So I can read the Qur'an slowly in Arabic, I can use the Arabic dictionaries and understand how the language works, but I am not an Islamic scholar. I am not an Islamic specialist. There are a good number of Christian apologists who are Islamic specialists that would do a far better job debating Qur'an, Muhammad, and all of that.

So on my end, I said, if we could do something that's more in my field, he said, well, how about is Muhammad prophesied in the Bible? I said, of course. I mean, honestly, it's not a debate. And I said it at the debate, it's not a debate. It is so far-fetched, the attempted proofs are so far-fetched, the attempted arguments are so far-fetched, they are so easily dismissed, so easily demolished, that to even have the debate is unnecessary.

However, because there are many sincere, devout Muslims that do hold to these things, I said, well, that's just fine then. We will go ahead and do the debate. So we had it planned for before COVID, the organizers there were unable to get a venue. They actually told me, the Muslim Debating Society, that they're finding it harder and harder to get universities to sponsor controversial debates. They're a little squeamish about it. And then, because many of the universities have a lot of left-leaning, left-wing people in administration and things like that, or faculty, that they're concerned that they have someone like me in because I'm, quote, anti-gay or anti-trans or right-wing, however they're going to characterize me, or a Muslim that would have similar views about homosexuality, etc., that there could be left-wing protests and things. So they're just a little squeamish about having these debates. So the organizers were unable to find the location to host it.

Then COVID hit. So finally, as I was challenged again and again by Zakir, I said, all right, I'm making a short trip over. I'm just in Saturday, Sunday, London, Manchester, and then coming home Monday. I'll extend it one day.

If we can do it Monday night, I'll extend my trip one day just for the debate. So by God's grace, according to those who've seen it, we don't have the official version posted yet. We had several different cameras.

We're pooling our resources, and then we'll post the best video quality we have. But let's just say that according to skilled observers with lots of debating background or academic background or public settings of apologists going at it, it was as one-sided as it should have been. And according to others, you can judge for yourself when you watch it. You say, well, does it change anybody's mind? I mean, why do this? First reason I do a debate is obviously the honor and reputation of the Lord, that if this is something that can glorify him or take away reproach that's been put on him, I do it for that reason. But my main strategy in doing these debates is not first and foremost that I'm trying to convince the other side. That's important to me.

But first and foremost, I want to strengthen our side. Now, the debate last night, our side didn't need strengthening. No Christian thinks that Muhammad's prophesied in the Hebrew Bible. When I'm debating a rabbi over the years, when I first came to faith, we were constantly told we didn't know anything. The New Testament is taking the Old Testament and the context is twisting, etc, etc. And we didn't have a lot of background education. We didn't have a lot of rabbinic background. So the rabbis would challenge us and it would often be overwhelming. The rabbis would challenge us and we didn't have answers. So I really had to dig and study and say, Lord, I just want your truth. I just want to follow your truth. And God raised me up where there was a void to write five volumes on answering Jewish objections to Jesus and to become the leading debate of rabbis. I imagine that I've had more formal public debates with rabbis about Jesus, about Yeshua, than any living human being.

And I don't even know how much they've been done in history. So I'm blessed with the door that God opened. When people say, well, you're the foremost Messianic Jewish apologist, I used to say, yeah, number one among one. I said, it's like playing center on the pygmy basketball team.

You don't have to be that tall to do it, you know. Thankfully, more and more raised up and qualified speakers and apologists and things like that. But when I started debating rabbis, the first reason I was doing it was to strengthen our side so that Jewish believers and Christians in general who believe that Jesus was the Messiah would now be emboldened. Oh, there are answers. Oh, we can push back. Oh, we don't have to be intimidated.

So that's the first thing. So now out of the people in the audience, the hundreds of people there that are believers, now you've got all these new evangelists or these emboldened evangelists or these emboldened people who share the gospel and witness. It says about Apollos in Acts 18, that he strengthened those who had believed, for he mightily refuted the Jews, so Apollos himself a Jew, in public debate, proving from the scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah. So his doing that greatly strengthened the believers. So when I come in to do a debate and there's tremendous pressure, intellectual pressure, spiritual pressure, cultural pressure on a group, and I can strengthen them to say, hey, we're on the side of truth. And look, we can do it with grace. We don't have to be mean-spirited, nasty. We can be decisive and clear, but we don't have to be mean-spirited or nasty. We can speak the truth in love.

We can bring grace and truth together. Our side gets tremendously strengthened by it. So that's the first thing that happens. Secondly, you've got a lot of people unsure that are in the middle. Or they're maybe leaning one way or another, but they're not sure, well, the debates really strengthen things like, yes, yes, now I see it. So that happens regularly.

People are pushed over to the right side. And then you want to plant seeds of doubt in the hearts of those that are really firm on the other side. Even miraculously in the heart of the debater. But that's your last thought because that person is as hardcore on their side as we are on our side, right? So if they think they're going to do a debate to change me, that's as unlikely as debating that the sun can become the moon. You know what I'm saying? In the same way, if I'm trying to change one of their debaters, I mean, that's the hardcore. That's what they do. But you can still plant seeds of doubt. You can make people who are very confident on the other side wonder.

Now, the thing about, and we have wonderful testimonies of people whose lives were changed through a debate. One of my favorite is Dave Gettleman. Dave was the former general manager of the Carolina Panthers when they went to the Super Bowl. He was just recently retired general manager of the New York Giants football team. And we met him when he was in North Carolina.

Didn't even know his story. But here's, you know, very Jewish. I don't know how religious he was in his upbringing, but being Jewish was very important to him culturally. He started going to a messianic congregation, but had lots of questions about Yeshua being the Messiah.

Lots of them. And then he attended a debate, major debate, I did in 2004 with Rabbi Shmueli on whether Jesus was, who really killed Jesus. It was right after the Passion of the Christ movie was coming out. And standing room only at the Hilton Hotel, over a thousand people there, major media coverage. It was a big event. And that's the night everything turned for him.

That's the night his questions went away. So yes, God does use these. The challenge with a debate like tomorrow night with a Hebrew Israelite, which is really a cult full of deception. And I'm sure the debater was going to come in very much prepared to bring his arguments, is that someone like me in their eyes is a white Edomite devil. Someone like me in their eyes is an oppressor.

Someone like me in their eyes is a fake and a phony. So if I say, look, we all know that two plus two is four, you can't trust the white man, the white devil, and you see he's trying to trick us, etc. So it's like anybody in a cult group, anyone that's been brainwashed, indoctrinated, you have it on all sides. Black, white, young, old, Jew, Gentile, male, female, everybody can get brainwashed, everybody can listen to things and they sound impressive.

But when you cut, you know, you fill this room with a thousand balloons, but then bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, just take a pen and burst them all. So pray with me. Just I asked for prayer Monday night that Jesus would be exalted because I didn't just show Muhammad wasn't prophesied in the Hebrew Bible.

I showed Jesus was and preached the gospel from there. We can't wait to make the video available on our YouTube channel. If you get our emails, AskDirectorBrown.org, AskDirectorBrown.org, get our emails, and as soon as the videos are up, we'll let you know how you can watch the debate. There's going to be a live stream tomorrow night on the Berean TV YouTube channel.

It'll be starting between seven and seven thirty Eastern Time tomorrow night. But again, we'll give follow up. Hopefully we'll be able to put it on our own platform as well. But pray with me that falsehood would be demolished and exposed, that that strongholds would be would be pulled down in Jesus name by the truth, by the truth. And that Jesus, Yeshua, would be highly exalted, that eyes would be open, that lives would be changed because they're precious people for whom Jesus died who've been deeply deceived.

We want to see them set free and come into the full knowledge of the truth so they can be the deliverers that God has called them to be in this generation. OK, we come back. I am going to give you some reflections on politics and the gospel, and then we'll go straight to your call. Stay right here.

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. So Friday morning, I flew out to Kennedy Airport, left the house at like 5.40 in the morning. I'm a late night person, so that's early for me. Left the house at 5.40 in the morning, get dropped off at the airport, and had my salad with me once I got into Kennedy Airport. Got in the lounge there because I fly so much and use the lounge, and then with my airline, had my salad there. And then on the plane, I wasn't going to eat anything flying from there to London, just the food on the plane and the way that I eat. So at one point, the flight attendant says, what are you doing? And I had this healthy protein shake, this vegan protein shake, and I'm pouring the powder into the water. I had a little funnel. She goes, that's commitment. I said, yeah, I travel all the time.

You've got to be committed. And then I take out these little things that you just heard, Triveda. I take them out to pour. Okay, got to have my nitric oxide and my amino acids, the mild health. So I'm telling you, these really have enhanced my life with all the healthy eating now. These have really been a blessing. And think for me, as someone who's got a mandate from the Lord to help get the church healthy, so first and foremost spiritually, but emotionally, mentally, physically as well.

And want you to live and thrive so you can do everything God's called you to do and not be cut down prematurely and not be lacking in energy or mental sharpness and things like that, as much as it lies on us. So what a blessing when Triveda came along and said, hey, check out our products. If you really like them, here's what we want to do. We don't want to make any money. We want to take any profit we get and pour it right back into radio ministry. So that's how we just launched in Phoenix now with the help of Triveda and our faithful sponsors and givers, our faithful donors that stand with us. So take advantage of this. Not only will this be a blessing, I believe, in your own life, but you're really helping us reach more people.

I mean, to us, it's such a win-win situation. So again, that number 800-771-5584. Tell them Dr. Brown sent you and you'd like a wellness consultation, all right? 800-771-5584.

Or if you just go online, triveda.com, make sure you use the code BROWN25. 100% of your first order will go to help us get on more stations and more than a tithe of all your subsequent orders will go towards our radio expansion. So thank you, thank you, thank you for standing with us and hopefully you'll be blessed by these products as well. All right, so I'm not taking a lot of time here in terms of politics and the gospel, but hopefully, upon reflection, we can find ways. When I say we, I'm speaking generically and largely to Christian conservatives, right?

This would be my biggest listening audience right now. Hopefully we can learn from some mistakes we've made in the past in terms of getting so caught up with politics, in terms of putting so much faith in politics and so much emotion into politics and so on. And it does get us off track.

So just a few simple things. If the political headlines get really crazy in the days ahead, if in fact Donald Trump is indicted, if there's recent news in the last couple minutes, I haven't been looking for the last half hour or so, but if there's major news that's going to be, you know, it's never happy for a president, is it just a political witch hunt, etc. And then we're not that far off right from getting to the primaries later this year and then presidential election the next year and so on. Let's remember, politics has its place, but politics is not the gospel. Politics cannot change hearts. Politics cannot get a wicked person to become a godly person. Politics can't set people free from bondage. Politics can't bring forgiveness of sins. Politics can't bring the healing of a relationship.

Alright, politics can't bring your prodigal child back to the Lord. Politics has its role, but it is a limited role. It's an important role, but limited. By all means, we should be informed voters.

It's a gift we have in America. We can't complain if policies are set in motion, laws are passed, things right down to our school systems that we find abhorrent if we drop out of the system, then we can't blame the system for doing things when we could have influenced the system. So we should be informed voters by all means. And some are called to more. Some are called to actually run for office. Some are called to be in your local school board. Some are called to be part of petitioning and lobbying and things like that. Let everyone find their calling.

But the vast majority of us, and I put me in this category as well, the vast majority of us are not called to primarily political focus or action. We're called to gospel living first. So let's put things in their right perspectives. Let's focus on our own spiritual life with God. Let's focus on revival and awakening in the church. Let's focus on evangelism in our community. Let's focus on standing for righteousness in our local communities, etc.

If we do those things, we can see change come to the whole nation. And then there's the old saying that politics is downstream from culture. Well, culture is downstream from the church. If the church in a nation has a good percentage of people and is living right and shining light and being a moral conscience, we're being salt, we're being light. Philippians 2, we're holding forth the light, our lives as light.

Ephesians 5, light exposes the darkness. If we're doing those things, then cultural change and politics will change as well. So I'm absolutely 100% for pro-life laws. 100%, 100%. I was absolutely rejoicing when Roe v. Wade was overturned. Absolutely rejoicing. That was an unrighteous, ugly, destructive law that had been a horrific blight on our generations, the generation before us. Terrible, terrible, sinful, grievous. So many lives destroyed as a result of it. At the same time, I realize, unless the gospel continues to go forth and many Americans, especially young Americans, come to faith, unless we do a better job of making disciples of those who come to faith, that the pro-life laws will only last so long before the tide turns against it.

So keep everything in its proper perspective. And remember, there are no political saviors. Donald Trump couldn't save America. Barack Obama couldn't save America. Joe Biden couldn't save America. George Bush couldn't save America. Ron DeSantis can't save America. Whoever you want to put forward as a candidate.

Oh, yeah. One could do a much better job than another. One could stand for things that are important to us much better than another. One might handle the economy better, security better, and values better than another.

Absolutely. The vote's important, but there's no savior. When Barack Obama became the big thing, it was called the chosen one. The chosen one. Then I've heard Christians say, only Trump can save America. The chosen one is the chosen son, Jesus. The one who can save America is Jesus.

We don't put anybody else's name in there. Not Barack Obama, not Donald Trump, not anybody. Alright, so let's remember there's no political savior.

And there's no reason to get all caught up emotionally about things that are months and months and months down the line. And even as they're happening, let there be a settled peace. Hey, I voted. I did what I knew how to do to influence. And now I worship God. Because look, there are many things I deeply differ with with President Biden. I pray for his well-being.

God forbid that I mock if he makes a verbal mistake. Look at the old man. No, that's cruel. That's not Christian.

That's what the world does. I pray for his well-being. I pray for his salvation. I militantly oppose some of his policies, stand deeply against a lot of things that he believes are right and I believe are wrong. Alright, that being said, God is moving. The Holy Spirit's being poured out during his administration.

Many times Christians pray a lot harder when they don't like the person in the White House than when they do. We get our gal, our guy in the White House like, oh okay, take my foot off the gas. No, keep your foot on the gas.

Keep your foot on the gas. First, you don't know even if that person's going to stand up for what they said they would once they're elected. That's one thing.

The other thing is that if we don't pray, then the most important things won't happen. Because what the president does is important, but what happens to the church is much, much, much, much more important. We had the Brownsville Revival. I served as a leader there from 1996 to 2000.

The revival started a year earlier. I served as a leader there the last four years and raised up our school of ministry, but that happened during the Clinton years. So many times you see the greatest outpouring, the greatest signs of revival when you've got, in your mind, the worst person in office. And then, I know it's trite, but God's not Republican or Democrat.

We've got to remember that. And there's not, this is the righteous party. I have deep, deep differences with abortion policies of Democrats and LGBTQ-related policies and even freedom of religion policies with Democrats. I have deep differences, right? But the Republicans are not, the party of God. No, it's politics, and politics in itself can be a cesspool. So just keep things in perspective. Don't get caught up. Just step back, put in some worship music, read the word, lift up Jesus, share a testimony, rather than getting your emotions all caught up, especially as we get closer into 2024. Make sense? All right, coming back, and I'm going to start with your calls.

Hey friends, Michael Brown here. You know, it seems the whole country now is talking about revival. Could it be that a fresh wave of revival is here? Friends, I've said for decades, without a fresh wave of revival in the church and awakening in society, it's over for America as we know it. And that's where I wrote the book, Revival or We Die.

A great awakening is our only hope. Friends, when you read this book, it won't just give you a vision of what revival can do in society, in the church, but in your own heart, in your own life. It'll light a fresh fire in you. It'll ignite something in you, a hunger, a desire, a vision of what God can do through a yielded life. Revival or We Die.

I even have a whole chapter where I share intimate, open prayers I've prayed to God, even in recent years, to ignite a fresh, a first love in me. I believe as you read it, something will be ignited within you as well. But you know, whenever revival comes, there's controversy. And that's why I wrote the Revival Answer book. I wrote it in the midst of the Brownsboro revival, answering the many honest questions. Is there too much emotion? What about shaking?

What about falling? What about unusual things that happen in revival? And can we really expect revival in the last days, or will things only get worse? When you order this hardcover edition of Revival or We Die, I want to give you this book, the Revival Answer book. 300 page book. I want to give it to you absolutely free. So here's the number to call. 1-800-538-5275. That's 1-800-538-5275.

Or go to AskDrBrown.org, just click on shop, and when you do, you'll see the special offer. The hardcover edition of Revival or We Die, A Great Awakening, is our only hope. Along with the Revival Answer book is our free gift to you when you order. One more time, the number to call. 1-800-538-5275. The time for revival is now.

This is how we rise up. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Alright, let us go straight to the phones.

866-34-TRUTH. Anything you want to talk about, there's going to be a whole bunch of different questions. One unrelated to the next, so let's do it.

We'll start with Makai in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Oh, hey, Dr. Brown. How you doing? Doing very well, thank you.

Okay, I have a couple of different questions for the same subject. The first question I want to ask is, do you think wine or alcohol in general... No, I've totally abstained from alcohol since I've been saved, so that's over 51 years. I do not believe I can make that a statement that everyone should do that biblically. Clearly, drinking of alcoholic beverages in Scripture is not forbidden. You might say, well, the wine was not as fermented.

True, from what I understand. However, we already have in Proverbs 20, verse 1, Wine is a mock, or strong drink is raging. Whoever is deceived by it is not wise. So wine could clearly get you drunk in Scripture. So what the Bible calls for is moderation. Drunkenness is clearly a sin, or we're called to moderation, especially those in leadership. The reasons that I don't drink wine at all, or any alcoholic beverage... Number one, before I was saved, I drank to get drunk. I preferred drugs, but I did drink, but I didn't enjoy liquor so much. It's not like I got a taste for liquor.

I drank in order to get drunk. So when I got saved, I had no reason to drink anymore. Then the church I got saved in also had a culture where you totally abstained.

So that became my lifestyle. Then as a leader, I find it's personally very important to not do it, because I've heard endless stories of individuals who saw a Christian... They used to struggle with alcohol, maybe they were alcoholics, or they just struggled. They got saved, they got clean, they saw a Christian leader drinking, they thought, I guess it's okay if I do, and they fell back into alcohol.

Some completely fell back away from the Lord. Now, when I'm in Italy, a country like that, very common for believers to have wine with their meals. Often, in England, wine or beer with a meal, it's totally normal. I don't judge that.

I have no problem. They can all sit and have their glass of beer or wine. They don't get drunk. They've probably never been drunk in their lives. But I personally don't, just as a matter of consecration and as a matter of being an example.

But what Scripture calls for is no drunkenness and any drinking in moderation, and then to be considerate of weaker brothers and sisters. Oh, wow. Okay, thank you.

You're very welcome. The second question was just going to ask if being, I guess you would say, tipsy is okay, and also, do you believe the wine in Jesus' day has changed today? Because, I don't know. I guess I would think that Jesus drunk wine, and I don't know, he didn't get drunk, I guess. Right, right. So, again, from everything I understand, I'm not a wine expert, but from everything I understand about the fermentation process, wine today would have more alcoholic content than wine in Jesus' day. Look, I used to get high, 69 to 71, before I was saved. People have told me pot today is not like pot in my day. It's much, much, much more potent. Well, it appears to be the same with wine. It's more potent today than then. However, again, as I quoted Proverbs 20, verse 1, there are warnings about drinking. And even in Proverbs, hey, it's not good for kings to drink wine, and you had the Nazarites, in consecration to God, could not drink wine. So, it was dangerous in terms of potential alcoholism then, or potential drunkenness then.

It's even more so today. As far as being tipsy, no, Christians should not be tipsy. Of course not. You can't be sober, be sober and vigilant. You can be full of joy and be sober-minded. You can be weeping in repentance and be sober-minded, but tipsy, no.

So, absolutely not. A Christian should never get in that state from drinking, because it's going to impair their judgment on some level, even if a little. What if you just get a little too friendly with a co-worker? What if you just get a little too suggestive with someone?

How do you then take that back? What if that opens the door to, hey, because next day you made a little more wine to get tipsy, right? So, you drink a little bit more, now you're more tipsy.

And, well, next thing you're drunk. Well, you know, let me try something stronger. You say, come on, man, Dr. Brown, you sound like an old-time Puritan. Hey, there's nothing I'm saying. It's rocket science here.

This is basic. And I've never seen anybody who really starts to get into this and opens the door to getting a little tipsy, and, hey, you know, really getting a taste for this and that, that doesn't drink more or end up making a mistake. In fact, oh, boy, I heard from a grad, I can't wait to have him on the air and to talk more about this, a grad from a ministry school in the 1980s on Long Island, Christ for the Nations on Long Island. And he went on to become an attorney in a prominent, very, very prominent Christian legal organization, serving in marriage and family, high position. He and his wife, godly couple, a bunch of kids, just introduced drinking into the, you know, just in moderation into their lifestyle. And it ended up destroying his life, destroying his marriage. He ended up, do you remember in New Mexico, there were these, these like little tent cities for prisoners under the sheriff then, or in Arizona, excuse me, and he was like, you know, chain gang type of work. And he ended up there, ended up there.

Thankfully God restored his life, thankfully his wife prayed for him and they're back together. But what a mess. And he said it just because we opened the door there. So, so don't open it. You say, hey, I've had a glass of wine with a meal every day for decades and never been drunk in my life. I'm not concerned about you. That's not my issue, not the issue. So anyway, yeah, absolutely, I'd be as clear as I could be on those things. If you're getting tipsy, stop.

I just stop entirely because it's already opened the door. Alright, but otherwise pull back and remember what kind of example you set for others as well. And I'm speaking from experience, I'm speaking from love, and I'm speaking from a place of absolute liberty.

Not a legalistic bone in me in this, just absolute liberty. Hey, thank you for the call and the question. Alright, let's go to our friend Jesse in Twin Cities, Minnesota. What's up?

Hi, Dr. Brown. So my question is about 1 John 2, 2. I'll explain, but the verse says he is a propitiation for our sins and not for us only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Now, from what I know is that John is writing to the church in Ephesus, which has mostly Gentiles with some Jews. And then from what I understand, the hour in 1 John 2, 2 is talking about the same hour as 1 John 1, 1-10, where it says us and we, which I take to be the apostles and prophets, that sort of thing. The question then would be, this isn't the ultimate question, but 1 John 2, 3-5, it also says we, so who's that? But then John's use of the word never means the elect, that's from what I understand. And then in 1 John 5-19, it says we know that we are from God in the whole world that lies in the power of the evil one. So what do you say to a Calvinist that says, you know, it means the land mass or the every nation or something like that? What's your answer to that?

Yeah, you're wrong. This is the strongest single verse in the New Testament that argues against the Calvinistic idea of limited atonement, meaning that Jesus died to save the elect and no one else. And I say this with respect to my Calvinist friends, we've debated these issues. So number one, the we hour in 1 John, yeah, it can include John and other apostolic or early leaders, but the we hour, us, that's the believers. If we confess our sins, he's faithful and just to forgive our sins, right, in 1 John 1-9 or 1 John 1-7, if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another in the blood of Jesus, God's son cleanses us from all sin. So the we, us, that's us as believers. So 1 John 2-2, he's the propitiation for our sins and not for us only, but also for those of the whole world. So some have tried to say, well, that's the believers there, Jew and Gentile believers there, but it's also for the sins of all the others elect in the world. But again, correct, John never uses, quote, the world, referring to the elect, either he's referring to the evil world system or to all humanity. 1 John 5-19, which you quoted is the right verse that John tells us whole world is speaking about everybody that is outside of the gospel, right?

We are of God, little children, but the whole world lies under the power of the evil one. So that's quite explicit and clear that the whole world means everybody else. So Jesus dies not only for the sins of God's people, but for the sins of everyone. You say, well, then that makes it just a meaningless sacrifice. No, he dies to make salvation accessible to all human beings and to secure infallibly the salvation of the elect. So for those who believe his death eternally secures our salvation, for those who reject him, they rejected the offer.

They rejected the possibility. Notice also in 1 John, say, for example, verses 2 through 15, don't love the world or the things that are in the world. For all that's in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life is not of the Father, but of the world.

Right? And whoever has this love in their heart doesn't have the love of the Father. So world is clearly not talking about other believers anywhere in John, not a single place, not John 3 16 or anywhere else. So with all respect to my Calvinist friends, I find the counterarguments to 1 John 2 2 very weak.

And James, if you're James White, if you ride your bike, don't hit a cliff here. We've had this out before. In fact, we have a mini debate on this subject, actually. But yeah, I don't see any good answer. And I was troubled when I was a Calvinist from 70-70-82 that so many books kept being written on these same verses. It's like, I guess these verses do present a problem because I keep seeing each year new books coming out dealing with the trouble verses. Like, we shouldn't have problems with these verses.

We should just embrace them. So Jesus died for the whole world because God loves the whole world. Therefore, we can tell any person that there is forgiveness for sins for them at the cross. Any person, we can tell them their sins have been paid for if they'll only believe.

That's true. If you're a Calvinist, you can't say that to someone because you don't know that Jesus died for them. And therefore they said, so if I believe, then this is true.

You can't tell them yes because, well you can only tell them yes because they can't believe in this. God gives the grace to believe and it becomes this whole convoluted thing. So, very strong argument against limited atonement in 1 John 2 that to me a fair and honest reading of the Gospel of John and the Epistles of John leaves us with no alternative. But to say limited atonement is wrong.

Alright, thank you so much Dr. Braun, and I just agree with you that it's the plain straightforward reading of the passage, no matter how much steps you go into it, the plain straightforward reading is what it is. Yes sir, we agree. Hey, thanks for the call.

I appreciate it. 866-34-TRUTH. By the way, we've got a couple lines open if you want to join in. Now is a good time in case you can't call Thursday with a Jewish question tomorrow or more random. You've got questions, we've got answers on Friday. Let us go over to Michael in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Welcome to the Line of Fire. Good afternoon Dr. Braun. Stay right there, my apologies. We shifted our clock recently, and anyway, my apologies. I forgot our shift here. Michael, I'll be with you on the other side of the break.

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Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. All right, here we go. Back to the phones. Michael and Raleigh, my apologies, sir.

We've had so many years where I stopped and started at a certain point. We just made an adjustment, grabbed ourselves an extra minute during the show, so my apologies. All over to you. Thanks for your patience. All right, this is no problem at all.

It's no problem at all. Good afternoon, Dr. Brown. Hey. All right, so I saw a video where you gave a sermon concerning the promises of the land and Israel's glorious future. Yes, sir. You referenced Zechariah chapter 12 and said it took place after the exiles are gathered. So will there be like a future exile or is this the last one?

Oh, no, no. In other words, Zechariah 12 requires a Jewish Jerusalem, right? That's the whole setting there. The nations of the world are attacking Jerusalem, which is a Jewish Jerusalem, and the Jews in Jerusalem will ultimately repent and welcome the Messiah back. So this is ongoing now. In other words, it is saying this cannot be taking place at a time when Jerusalem is desolate or when Gentiles control Jerusalem. This can only happen at a time when the Jewish people have been regathered. Right, so this is the current reality, that the Jewish people have been regathered to the land.

Yeah, absolutely. And it doesn't mean that we won't have hard times and difficulties there. But yes, I'm not expecting another exile. God forbid. Rather, we continue to return to the land so that you have more Jews in the land than outside or getting closer to that.

Right? So, thanks for asking for clarification there. Okay, so when the Antichrist comes, there won't be another exile?

No, absolutely not. And I see nothing in Scripture about an Antichrist exiling. You know, you have in Zechariah 14 that there's a final battle and half of the city of Jerusalem goes into exile. That's a limited thing in the midst of a battle as the Messiah is about to come and set up his kingdom.

But no, an exiling where Jews are kicked out of the land again in large number, absolutely not. Okay, great, great. Okay, that's my answer.

That's what I needed to hear. Okay. Thank you, sir, I really appreciate it. Alright.

Alright, thank you. 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go over to Andrew in Gaithersburg, Maryland. Welcome to the line of fire. I tell you what, Andrew had a question.

Andrew's not here now. Should Christians do yoga? My friend Yesupadam from India, so he grew up in a Hindu country, and one of the, well I would say the finest Christian man that I know, he says absolutely not. That there's nothing neutral about it. It's another way of bringing in Eastern philosophy, Eastern religion, Eastern mindset into the West.

And it's been a very successful way of doing it. Now, I was working out at a gym one time, and there was someone that seemed very, very committed to the Lord, holding Bible studies and doing, quote, Christian yoga. And they were saying, no, it's just breathing exercises. It's stretching positions. There's nothing spiritual about it. And therefore, what's wrong with it? And we'll preach the gospel in the midst of it.

So I am certainly not judging a Christian who says these are just breathing exercises or stretching exercises, because I do not, I've never studied yoga at all, I've never done it, been involved with it, or studied it. But my friend Yesupadam from India has a very strong view, so I pass that view on to you. All right, let's go to Denise in North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Hello, Dr. Brown, how are you?

Doing very well, thank you. My question is, do you believe, or how is it that some people believe that African American people were cursed in the Old Testament? And I'm asking because I had a pastor actually tell me that he felt sorry for me, that I was a nice person, but my race had actually been cursed. No. Today, I mean, in this day, someone said that to you?

No, it was back when I was 12. But in this generation, anyway, in our lifetimes, right, right. God forbid, God forbid, God forbid, absolutely, categorically not, not a stitch of evidence for it. You want to know how weak the arguments are?

Well, there was a mark put on Cain to distinguish him, and he was under God's judgment, so the mark was skin color. Zero. Zero evidence for that. Zero. You might as well have said the mark was that he grew a tree out of his head, you know, or that he, you know, that his feet became bicycle wheels.

I mean, there's zero. It's just someone projecting. And then the verse that's looked at more as in Genesis 9, where Ham, one of the three sons of Noah, does something defiling to Noah, either just mocks him or looks at him when he's naked or does something worse, so that when Noah wakes up and realizes what happened, he curses him, and he curses his son Canaan. And of course, Canaan then becomes the nation that Israel drives out or enslaves, so it's like the slave race, well, the curse was that he made his skin dark. There are actually ancient texts that claim this, but it's a myth. It's a racist myth.

That's all there is. Or looking at dark skin as worse, because the Middle Eastern people would have been brown skin, right, for sure, you know, and in some cases even darker skin. So how is it that it got taught by Christians just racism? That's all there is to it, you know, that there were white Christians who thought that they were of a superior race. So picture this, okay, you are an educated white Christian with a particular type of education, with a particular type of dress, and now you encounter Africans.

So they're not just dark skinned, they don't look like you, and they look more like some animal in the jungle the way they're dressed and not dressed like you. Their language sounds like gibberish to you, just like your language sounds like gibberish to them, and maybe they know things about the culture more, they know how to grow crops, they know how to live in certain places, and you have all this book learning, you look at them as ignorant savages, and I mean human beings have done this one to another. Everybody's enslaved everybody, you know what I'm saying, that slavery goes all different directions.

It's still very common in the Muslim world. You've had blacks enslaving blacks, blacks enslaving whites, et cetera, but as a white Christian I can say that when we did it, not my ancestors, because I wasn't here, I'm European Jewish background, but in terms of spiritual ancestors, white Christians here in America, it definitely was a theological thing to them, and even a race thing, that theologically they thought based on their misreading of scripture that the Africans were inferior, and they judged them many times to be actually inferior, that they may be very strong, but they're not as smart as us or as refined as us, and those were just purely culturally ignorant judgments. So if someone says that, even if the pastor was not a racist himself, he believed blatantly ugly racist things. Hey look, I'm a Jewish follower of Jesus, and Hitler said that Jews were parasites.

Louis Farrakhan a few years ago said we're termites. I get the hate mail day and night from Hebrew Israelites that tell me I'm a white Edomite devil and will be subservient to them in the world to come. So racism goes in all different directions, but where it's come in our country historically to the terrible detriment of African Americans, black Americans, it's been utterly shameful that it's been tied in with the gospel, or that there was a Christian justification found for slavery.

It's utterly shameful. But yeah, you've got a couple of these passages, and all you need is black, dark, negative. Muhammad Ali once had this rant about angel food cake is white, and devil food cake is black. Just all these different cultural images. So it seeps in. It's insidious.

And I've been thinking about it a lot because I'm debating a Hebrew Israelite and there's so much anti-white racism on their end, but a lot of it is a reaction against the previous anti-black racism, you know? But yeah, sorry to give you such a long answer. I'm just kind of passionate about that.

And it's so ugly to hear that you were ever told that. Oh, I need it. I'm glad. You know, I've been holding on to that. And I heard you say, ask anything. And I said, I'm calling the doctor.

I appreciate it. How did you feel at 12 when you were told that? Well, I thought it was true. I thought, wow, I'm cursed. Honestly, I thought it was just true that I was beneath.

And I just accepted it as true. At what point did you get free from that? Honestly, years.

Probably, I'm going to say maybe 25. No. I started to, yeah. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I felt, yeah. He was our pastor and he was very nice. Like you just mentioned that maybe he wasn't racist. But he treated me and my family very nice, but we were just cursed. And I just took it as truth. So that's how I behaved.

I behaved that way. And were you living in North Carolina then, Denise? I was in California.

Got it. In California. Do you mind me asking how old you are now? I'm 50. Fifty. So that's 38 years ago. So that's the 1990s, right? Or thereabouts.

Yeah, in California. All right, so let me just preach to my audience here. Hey, Denise, thank you for calling and asking. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. Thank you. God bless.

God bless. Let me just preach for a moment here to our listening audience. There's a lot of stuff that's a lot worse in a lot of areas of society than many of us would know. One of my dear black messianic Jewish friends said to me years ago, he said, Mike, there's not a racist bone in your body, but there's a lot you don't know. And that's why my ears are always open and listening experientially. Oh, there are hills I'll die on. I mean, I'm black and white in terms of biblical gospel truth we don't move from.

Let's keep being sensitive to one of those life experiences, because things are a lot worse in certain circles in the past than we might have realized. Jesus is Lord. His church is growing. Be encouraged. Another program powered by the Truth Network.