Can Christians Really Lose Their Salvation?

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Welcome, welcome friends to the line of fire.

Michael Brown delighted to be with you. Remember to call to get on the broadcast 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. My pledge, as always, tune in on a daily basis. You will get a solid dose of moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Today we focus on spiritual clarity, what can be a very divisive and hot doctrinal topic I want to be really practical about and talk through with you. The question of whether a Christian can truly leave his or her faith. So I've got my brand new book just came out today, Why So Many Christians Have Left the Faith, where we respond to the deconstructionist movement with timeless truth.

So some would say, but Dr. Brown you're missing the whole point. You wrote a whole book on why so many Christians have left the faith, but you don't need to write any book on it because no true Christian will ever leave the faith. And they would frequently point to 1st John chapter 2 verse 19, which I'll read to you. And there John says this, They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us.

But their going showed that none of them belonged to us. So the argument would be that anyone who leaves that was never really truly part of the faith, if they leave and never come back, then they were never truly part of the faith. And therefore, there's no reason to write a book on why so many Christians have left the faith. Well, we'll come back to the doctrinal issue in a moment. And by the way, I want to invite you to make your best concise case or give me your best single verse that says a Christian can leave the faith or a Christian can never leave the faith. You know, some Christian leaders have said if we could leave the faith, we would.

Well, is that true? Is that a blanket statement we could make? Is there nothing that God renews in us and changes in us when we're born again where we truly desire to serve God and live for him? With all my heart, I want to serve God. With all my heart, I want to live for him.

With all my heart, I want to please him. And anything in me that pulls me away from that is not who I really am. Anything within me that tells me to go back in the world or to sin or to deny the Lord or whatever, and I don't deal with thoughts like this, but if they were there, that's not who I really am. I am a new creature in the Messiah. I have been born again in his image and I desire to please him and love him and honor him, and I trust his keeping power. Yet, I firmly believe that we can fall away if we willfully choose to reject the Lord. But before we get into a theological debate, and again, you can call in and give your best verse that says, of course we can fall away, or your best verse that says, of course we can't fall away, or we've been predestined.

How can we fall away? I want to open the phone lines for you to do that or any other question on any subject you want to ask me. Most days, when possible, a little later in the broadcast, I try to get into calls on all different subjects, and I do want to further encourage your heart about revival and outpouring and what God is doing and how to ignite an even deeper fire in your own lives.

But let me be practical for the moment. I start off why so many Christians have left the faith, talking about different leaders who fell away, and I start with Pastor Joshua Harris. Now, I never read his book, I Kissed Dating Goodbye, but it was a famous book in what would be called the Purity Culture Movement. He became the pastor at a prominent church near where I used to live in Maryland. He was a respected Christian leader, best-selling Christian author as a young man, and then he fell away. He denied the faith, said he no longer holds to it the same way, apologized to the gay and lesbian community for ways he felt he pushed them and judged them, pushed them away and judged them. So practically speaking, according to everything we knew, he was a pastor, a Christian leader, an author, someone who was serious about serving God, according to everything that we knew, and then he no longer believes. So I list other people, a worship leader, writing songs that many people sang and loved, saying I'm questioning everything that I believe. Someone else who was a hip-hop gospel artist and even involved in apologetics, now actually writing a book against the faith, writing a book denying the faith.

So I give examples. A seminary professor who was teaching the Bible in an evangelical seminary no longer believes. And how many of us have a friend or a loved one that according to everything we knew, they were in the Lord? According to everything that we knew, they believed just as much as we believe. Maybe they were the one that led us to the Lord, and then five years or 10 years or 20 years later, they no longer believe.

One way or another, we have to address the question of what's going on. One way or another, we have to say, why is it that it seems even some prominent leaders have renounced the faith and at levels beyond what we were used to seeing in the past? Is this what Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24 12? Because iniquity will abound, the love of many will wax coal.

One translation says the love of most, but the Greek is just many. Is that it? Are we living in that final apostasy?

Is that what's going on? Either way, it's a question that we need to ask. To simply say, well, these people were never saved. Well, how do you know you're saved? Well, I know that I know. Well, they knew that they knew. Some of them were very, very sure, and some of them were very passionate and very zealous. You say, well, they were counterfeit converts. Are you that sure?

Can you simply say it like that? Is that even what 1 John 2 19 is 19 is saying? Actually, I challenge that view about 1 John 2 19. I absolutely believe that we can have eternal assurance in Jesus. I absolutely believe that we can rest secure and what he's done for us and that we never have to worry about losing our salvation.

At the same time, I believe that we can willfully choose to walk away, that he will not force us to stay in his house. But we'll come to that. And I don't want to get into a doctrinal debate and have half of you cheering me on and half of you offended.

I want to be practical. If there are things I say that offend people, it's not my intent to offend. But if truth offends, so be it. If my conviction offends, so be it. Although I'll do my best to be non offensive in my personality and honoring of our differences in the Lord.

All right, what I'm going to emphasize practically, I think everyone on all sides should be able to agree with. But let's take a look at 1 John chapter two. I'm bringing this up because my book just came out, and this verse is being brought up often in discussion about the book. So I want to address this verse. And just yesterday at Christ for the Nations, where I am these days in Texas, I was addressing this question for the students.

It was a question they wanted me to talk about. What about one saved? Always saved. So 1 John 2 19 again says this. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us, for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But they're going to show that none of them belong to us. What's the first question you need to ask when you read this?

Who are they? John is not making a statement here that all true believers will always persevere in the faith. And he's not saying that anyone that ever leaves the fellowship of believers was never truly saved. He's not making that statement here. You can argue he makes it later in the book where anyone who continues to sin has neither seen God nor known him.

And again, there is a way to respond to that as well. But let's look at the context of 1 John 2 and ask who are the they? When it speaks of when it speaks of they went after.

Who? I mean, I see this verse quoted regularly. I've seen it quoted for years, but there's a context.

There's a context. Verse 18. So one verse before. Dear children, this is the last hour. And as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.

This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us. Who? These many antichrists. These many people denying the gospel. These many people denying that Jesus had really come in the flesh.

These many people who are opposing the faith. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But they're going show that none of them belong to us. It's not saying that anyone who ever leaves was never truly part. It's saying that these people who used to be part of us and are now actively opposing the faith and actively standing against the gospel. They were never really of us. Otherwise, they would stay.

That's the point he's making. It's not a blanket statement about anyone who ever leaves. It's talking about a particular group of people. Have you ever have you ever had people with you?

A business venture, a team in sports, a spiritual group community or something like that. And there's some people it's like, are they really with us? Do they really share our values?

I'm not really sure about them. And then when they leave and they come up adamantly against you, it's like, see, I knew it. I knew something was wrong. I knew they were never really part of us. I knew they were never really on the team with us.

It reminds me of a colleague used to work with our ministry years ago, and his wife was part of a Facebook group of other homeschooling Christian mothers. And he kept saying to her, I don't think they're on the same page as us. I don't think they really agree with our values and convictions. And so I said, Oh, no, no, they really do this. I don't think that they really do after all.

And then when the Obergefell versus Hodges decision came out and the Supreme Court radically redefined marriage in 2015, the next day or later that same day, this small group of Christian homeschooling moms all had their Facebook page, their personal icon or image changed in support of the verdict, in support of gay marriage. And he said, I told you they really weren't. They really weren't with us. They didn't really share our values. They may have been professing Christians and had certain things in common.

But when you dug deeper, they had really imbibed the spirit of the age. And that was proof that they were never really of us in that same way. That's all that 1 John 2 19 is saying.

And you can't read 1 John 2 19 without looking at 1 John 2 18 talking about who that they refers to. So bottom line, we know, practically speaking, regardless of where people once stood, we know that there are many who were once professing faith, some of them leaders in the church, and they fell away. So I wrote my new book to address the question of why and how we can help bring people back. So practically speaking, we know that people have left.

How can we bring them back? What's it say at the end of Jacob James chapter 5? It says that if one of you strays, so talk about a brother or a sister, one of you strays and turns away from the Lord and you can bring this person back. Know that you've covered a multitude of sins and saved a soul from death.

Who's it talking about? A brother, a sister, someone that said the Lord, they stray. Our goal, our desire is to bring them back. And if we are successful by God's grace and bringing them back, we've saved a soul from death and covered over a multitude of sins.

Let's do what we can to be a community that restores a community that brings people back. All right, we've got an important word from our sponsor. Stay tuned. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us on The Line of Fire. So phone lines are open for any question on any subject, any topic whatsoever you want to talk to me about.

It could be social, it could be political, things happening in the world around us and I want to come back to that in a moment. 866-34-TRUTH. Can I give you my CFNI workout update? Yes, so last night I did my normal ritual before a workout.

I took my nitrous oxide and amino acid, the biohealth, and then went to hit a workout. So there were four young men that joined me and you know guys regularly in the gym. So for those that like to work out and want to challenge, it's a fun workout where you just use four different exercises. So jumping jacks, right, and then air squats, then push-ups, not all the way down, about a two-thirds push-up, and then crunches, knees to elbows.

And a jumping jack, two counts for one. So you do 20 of everything, then 19 of everything, then 18 of everything, until you get down to one of everything. So when you're done, you've done 420 jumping jacks, you've done 210 squats, you've done 210 push-ups, you've done 210 crunches, and the goal is to go through everything without taking a break, without stopping. And you can do it 15 minutes or less if you push.

You could do it, you know, a couple minutes you can cut off that time. So it was a good fun workout. You're sweaty, you push. What I'm noticing though is my recovery is much better, adding in the nopalea also. So just my personal workout update, I'm noticing that my recovery is also much better.

That the next day I have almost no soreness, especially the knees, which is significant because I tweaked my knee a little bit, just doing some jogging and stuff. So anyway, my positive update continues. Here's the number to call. Free consultation, you can talk to folks and ask questions, and they're very able to help and guide you through some things.

And 100%, your first order goes to the line of fire. So it's 800-771-5584 for your free consultation with our friends at Trove to 800-771-5584. Okay, I want to shift gears a little bit. I want to talk about some deeper issues going on in the body in terms of why people have left, in terms of a wrong mindset that especially impacts younger people, the younger generation. And then I want to talk about some practical solutions to this. And then I'll give you practical thoughts about whether a Christian can or cannot lose his or her salvation.

I want to be practical as much as I can today. I'm very happy to get into debates, you know that. I'm very happy to do public debates with qualified spokespeople on the other side of issues where we can really hash things out. And I find it to be very helpful when each side can present their best arguments. That's why I'm always looking for a qualified leader to debate me.

We get endless requests. Dr. Brown, I want to debate you on this. Brown, I want to debate you on that. Well, we can't do everything. You're afraid.

No, not afraid to. Number one, there's not time to. Bad stewardship of my time to debate everyone that challenges me.

This is number one. Number two, they're not qualified. In other words, I could demolish them. Not necessarily because I'm right, just because they're not qualified. I could demolish them.

So how is that fair? There are people who could demolish me on any number of subjects because they're not my area of specialty. Because I don't have the information to debate.

So they could demolish me even if I'm right. It's simply they're more educated than the subjects. So we always wanted to be a fair debate with people who are qualified. I'm happy to debate, but my goal today is not to debate, but to be as practical as I can. Many young people are turned off by church, whether they're truly saved or not, whether they've ever been in the Lord or not.

We're not debating. Many have dropped out. Many don't even want to hear the message because they perceive Christians in a negative life. They perceive us as hateful. They perceive us as bigoted. They perceived us as racist.

They perceive it as homophobic, as transphobic, whatever it is. Some of it is our own doing. In other words, some of us have been much more vocal about political things and cultural things that we have about Jesus. And we're better known for what we stand against. We're better known for what we oppose. We're better known for our cultural stance, our political stance. We're better known for identifying with a party or a candidate than we are known for our witness for Jesus. And of course that's going to drive someone away from the Lord.

Just think about this for a minute. Let's say that you're raised in a conservative environment and you would espouse many of the values found on the Republican party platform. And the only church in your community is really known as strongly pro-Democrat. They preach Jesus and they preach Democrat party values.

You think, I'm not going there. They're a bunch of hypocrites. They're talking about Jesus and they're following this corrupt party. I'm not going to go there because it's mixing politics with religion. Conversely, if you're raised in a home and you think that Christian values are really in harmony or good values are really in harmony with the Democratic platform and the only church in your community is known for their strong Republican stand and they preach Jesus in Republican values, you're not going to go there, okay?

No, I'm not saying it's an exact equivalent between parties, but I'm trying to explain that it's very easy to have a certain mindset. If you live in a community and the churches there have a history of being pro-slavery and pro-segregation and now they don't talk about those things, but still it's basically an exclusively white church and you're a person of color, you're not going to feel particularly welcome there. They may preach a very nice gospel in many ways but you think, well, you're very insensitive to my world and you kind of push me away. In the same way, when young people have their perception that the church is mean and hateful, why? Because the church doesn't embrace my trans friend getting transgender surgery and because the church doesn't embrace my brother who quote married his boyfriend, the church doesn't embrace it. So the church is hateful, the church is mean-spirited and you have to understand that many young people have a strong quality of empathy, that many young people have a strong passion for justice and equality and they by nature or just their upbringing kind of have learned to side with the underdog and the one that's perceived to be the outcast and they perceive now the church as being against those people. So as I have one chapter in the new book, Why So Many Christians Have Left the Faith, their feeling is this, that if gay is good, if trans is good, then the church is bad. That's just the feeling, that's just the perception that they would have and I've run into it now even with believers, with young people who are in the Lord, but when I talk about issues having to do with gay activism or trans activism, they immediately feel offended because well that's my friend you're talking about or that's my cousin you're talking about or that's my mother you're talking about and that's how she identifies. Even though we're talking about an agenda, we're talking about issues, they're thinking people and they're getting offended.

So many of them have walked away from church because of it or won't even hear our message. I saw a remarkable video clip, I can't find the exact link, I wrote about it in an article, referenced it, but I can't find the exact link, but social media influencer, super popular, millions and millions of followers, Jake Paul, also now a boxer. So Jake Paul is talking with a co-host and apparently the co-host is like a longtime best friend, but Jake Paul's been really hostile to him because of his friend's Christian values and and his friend's saying, well Jake, when have I ever been hateful? When have I ever rejected people?

When have I this and this and this? And Jake Paul responds by saying conversion therapy. I think that was just a sentence, conversion therapy. Well what is conversion therapy? Well that's where you're forcing gay people to try to change or make them go through this terrible abusive therapy where you try to pray the gay out of them or drive the gay out of them. He's not saying all this but this is obviously what he's thinking and you believe in that bad stuff. The friend says whatever brought that up, but because the church does not embrace same-sex marriage or the church tells someone who's struggling with gender identity that that God's best is for you to stay at home in the body that he gave you rather than mutilate it or change it or chemically castrated, etc., that therefore because you hold these views you must also hold the view of quote conversion therapy, which is a term that the world puts on us when we tell people that they can be changed through the gospel or that that godly good wise counsel can often help people get to the root of their same-sex attraction and find change. And we're sitting talking with them and helping them. Well no you believe in conversion therapy therefore you're bad therefore I'm against you. The mentality is out there.

How do we do we just write off all the young people and write off the Gen Z and younger millennials or do we try to understand what they're thinking and help them to think rightly. We'll be right back it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Yeah it still does come down to revival or we die and we will never see the fullness of a gospel-based moral and cultural revolution without a church that is revived. I was just corrected by my faithful CFNI tech man that it is Logan Paul not Jake Paul that's probably why I couldn't find the clip so Logan Paul brother of Jake Paul that was involved in that dialogue so we'll see if I can actually get the clip and play it on the air probably have to censor out a word of profanity or two is his comment on their podcast but we'll look for it in the days ahead so I will take some calls and even on the subject of one saved always save so stay tuned or hang in there if you're on hold and I want to discuss this issue of how do we then reach a young person who their very passions that drive them seem to drive them away from the church and maybe we just see somebody out with Antifa trying to burn some police headquarters down and we just see the ugliness and the wrongness of it but is is there something going on that we can appeal to especially those that it started in the church or in the Lord but they're struggling because they feel this pull I I want to stand with my friends but biblical values seem to be against it how do I do that how do I do that so let me address that in the 1960s the counterculture revolution it was very easy to see the outward and the wrong sex drugs rock and roll eastern religion very easy to see all the things that were out there that were negative all the things that were pulling us away the generation gap the rebellion I got caught up in that whole thing as a as a hippie rock drummer getting high and buy into that that whole scene of of ungodly living and threw out the values of my family my parents and just was going to do my own thing and feed the flesh so it was carnal it was satanic it was destructive think of the the rock kings and queens that died of drug overdoses within a one-year period all at the age of 27 Jim Morrison and Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin it was a very destructive time and it's very understandable that Christian leaders looking at this thought this is it this is the final falling away this is the last great rebellion and Jesus is coming any moment that the handwriting's on the wall but what many missed and I've grieved over this for decades what many missed and maybe the Jesus revolution movie brings us out as well there was a spiritual search there was something we were looking for there was a hunger there was a cry there was a recognition that there had to be more than the American dream I mean this is this is the way that we were thinking back then dad why do you want me to do so well in school well so you can get the best college son well why should I get in the best college well you get the best college you get the best job but dad why do I want to get the best job well so you can put your kids in the best schools so your kids can go to the best college so they can get the best job so they say is that that's the cycle that's it that's what we're living for look the assassinations shook us some of you remember back the assassinations of the 60s shook us made us feel tremendously unstable the good challenges to the status quo the civil rights movement that that challenged a lot of things and produced that was an unhealthy that was a healthy challenge to an unhealthy situation but it makes you wonder about what's right what's you know your your values are being shaken in many parts of the country and and then then you have the Vietnam War the backdrop of the Vietnam War and the sudden changes coming in the culture and the whole pop and rock scene and all this and and why are we why are we going to war we're going to die for what purpose and we're starting to ask questions is it all just about having a nicer house at a nicer car than our parents did and there was a spiritual search many of you remember this but but we would sit around and get high and talk about spiritual things and ask deep spiritual questions it was the big thing we'd all talk about it all the time all the time all the time all the time so satan co-opted that satan rushed into that the world rushed in and co-opted that with all these fleshly things that i just mentioned but you see behind that there was a spiritual search and that's why when the lord began to move 67 and after the jesus people movement we came flocking because ultimately jesus was the one we were looking for we didn't know it and he was the ultimate one that could fill that void and meet that need and transform us and tell us leave the flesh behind say no to the sin say no to the world and now say yes to the lord and those radical conversions were many of us went from wholeheartedly serving the enemy serving the devil serving the flesh serving the world serving sin wholeheartedly from that into wholeheartedly serving the lord dramatic radical okay so what about the younger generation now this passion for justice in itself is a good thing this empathy for the underdog and the outsider in itself is a good thing this this desire for equality in itself it's a good thing but it's been hijacked by the world and the flesh and the devil just like our spiritual search was hijacked in the 60s do you hear what i'm saying it's been hijacked by antifa it's been hijacked by the worst elements of blm it's been hijacked by lgbtq plus activists all of them feeling that their cause is right but it's ultimately not a right cause so they have a passion for for racial equality and and for justice but it's been hijacked by a radical movement like like blm they they they want to see certain things set right but their desires to see things set right are hijacked by say radical groups like antifa or or conversely they they see someone is put out there they're rejected they're on the outside they want to side with them but they end up siding on what it's destructive to the person so what we have to do is is say what you're looking for can only really be found in god what you're looking for can only really be found in biblical principles what you're looking for can only be found in jesus and you see when you're siding with your trans friend and and she's 14 years old and she's your best best buddy and she suddenly believes that she's really a boy and she's going to go now on on on hormones to stop the further development of puberty and she's she wants to she wants to have a mastectomy as soon as she can you know she's 16 years old and she's trying to get her parents to agree that this is what she needs so feeling a sense of empathy for her and trying to understand what she's going to that's commendable but love and compassion would have you say it's the wrong decision you're going in the wrong direction you're going to do things that you'll ultimately regret for the rest of your life that are irreversible so there's moving beyond the empathy over to a position of real compassion in in the same way in the same way you can say look we absolutely agree that there is discrimination still in in this institution or in this group here but the way of fighting is not trying to burn a building down or or or come against all police or all figures of authority it's to see what we can do to work together to open people's eyes to what's wrong to help them embrace what's right and we find right values laid out in scripture and it's it's the values of god's kingdom that we really want to pursue and no we will never have complete equity in this world right you're going to have some that succeed some fails some are born rich some are born poor and it's the world we live in you want to do your best to have equality of opportunity but the whole idea of trying to press for some kind of equity where you end up with a marxism and a communism that that ends up killing tens of millions of people maybe well over a hundred million people as a result of its policies you need to say no that's destructive but see in the lord we find absolute equality where we're all one where you don't have a caste system or a class system so we want an appeal to to the wrong the wrong application of something that could be good in itself rather than just say oh they're all crazy they're all they're no it's not just being crazy but there's a full of sin and no it's not just that it's that things have been hijacked and if i can get a young person who's passionate about these things to really come to know the lord now they have the answer and it's not going to be expressed in a carnal or fleshly way but in a way they can liberate in a beautiful way look there are many young people today who are very very strongly anti-israel why because in their mind what they've been taught is that israel is the dominant power in the middle east oppressing these poor palestinians and the these poor people who are permanent refugees and israel is the bad party and the underdog the outcast of the palestinians now i am all for justice for all the middle east and israel is far from perfect and the palestinians are far from all evil all right so i'm not making blanking statements but there is a certain view which doesn't even step back and say well can you recognize that israel is surrounded by people hostile wanting to wipe them out and that they're probably several hundred thousand rockets pointed at israel any any one time and and can we point out the fact that israel was almost exterminated the jewish people in europe are almost exterminated to the holocaust you know the ashes of the holocaust israel was birthed and israel wanted to dwell together with its arab muslim neighbors but the the muslim leadership said no in other words it's it's a much more nuanced situation that calls for a different approach so amen to your heart for justice and equality but let's see it applied rightly that's what we have to do we have to be able to see past the outward i i've said many times when gay activists express anger towards us that the reason for the anger is pain that they felt rejected that they felt hated that they felt as if the church was telling them you're an abomination you yourself are an abomination and they felt that way and what kind of god did you see god maybe like this and god hates me and i'm supposed to go to your church what and and now we dare speak up against you know and say this is not really marriage in god's sight what now we want to be married and be committed you're telling us it's not even marriage who wants your religion so many times behind the anger is a pain we need to see past the anger and into the heart and seek to reach that heart with the love and truth of the gospel is this is this making sense okay i'm gonna go to the phones in a moment okay just look in some of the calls here uh revival or we die in case you missed the announcement at the bottom of the hour by the hard cover of that crucially important book and we give you absolutely free my 300 page book the revival answer book trust me the questions that come up the things you wonder about the criticism of revival there's nothing new under the sun we answer them in that book in depth with scripture and church history i was just looking over on amazon at some reviews for revival or we died this was dr timothy fisher d-man and phd he said i didn't want to stop reading this book i had to this book is not to be read but absorbed slowly and prayerfully page by page this book isn't for the study but the prayer closet i stopped using my highlighter because i was highlighting so much stop reading it and started using it as a springboard for prayer i've only read the first three chapters so far but i am confident that this book will continue to stir my heart for revival and then a just a word of appreciation to us so the book impacting him such that he said i i had to use it now as a prayer tool because it's driving me to god in prayer another reviewer said this my heart is burning if after reading this book your heart does not burn within you and every cell in your being cries out for more and more more god than as the old saying goes your word is wet so get a copy of the book free copy of revival answer book by calling 800-538-5275 800-538-5275 buy multiple copies i think you'll find them super valuable it's the line of fire with your host dr michael brown get on the line of fire by calling 866 three four truth here again is dr michael brown all right friends let us go to the phones thanks so much all of you that have been holding 866-348-7884 let's first go to ruth in Sioux City Iowa so going back to where we started to show about whether or not a Christian can lose their salvation welcome to the broadcast oh thank you for taking my call dr brown and i wanted to um talk about uh when i was younger and stuff you know i've never believed in the once saved always saved thing i always believed that it was something that you know the of course christ was the one who saved us but the fact i could lose my salvation and stuff could always be you know in the in the mix and then later on in my life you know um my husband said i don't believe in the once saved always saved and you know i told him why i didn't with the scriptures i knew of and then later on you know i i kind of asked god why didn't i ever get caught up in that lie and i'll have to tell you a little bit and i felt like i was reminded of the teaching um my mother um was born in 1926 her parents died when she was very small and she was kind of shuffled from family to family and she ended up in Wyoming with her uncle and his wife didn't want her and so she was sent back to Iowa uh when she was 11 and she was it was during the summertime and she was by the Des Moines river and there was a preacher that was in the water and he was baptizing people and she was just sitting there watching of course that was had to been like 1936 37 you know during the depression and he was coming out of the water and you know she just got shipped back to Iowa you know her heart was broken um and the preacher told her jesus loves you and she looked back at him she said nobody loves me i'm an orphan and she said and she she always told this story i mean i think i've heard it um a thousand times but she said she felt like god opened the heavens and he said i love you and i will be your heavenly father if you obey me and so i've heard that a million times in my life that god will be my heavenly father if he obeys him and so when people say well i said a prayer you know i'm in and i was like you know if if god makes a little orphan girl who would just reject it to be to obey him then he certainly requires that of us and so that's what the church needs you know we need to know that you know god wants to be a part of your life he loves you but you need to obey him you need to repent of your sins whatever they are you know whether you know whether you think you're a good person if you're living for yourself you're not obeying him you're you're your own god roots first so that's yeah i'm just just jumping in here first with an amen to everything you're saying and and what a great story what what a moving story for the lord to say that because you're raised a certain way you think yeah nobody loves me i mean god say i love you so for sure it is a lie it is not biblical to say you just pray a prayer and you get in and there people actually think that in other words no change of life no repentance no obedience to god no no come out from among them none of that just pray a prayer and you're in that is a destructive and dangerous lie and there are plenty of people who believe in one saved always saved you say no we don't believe that either we believe that if you're genuinely saved you will turn away from sin if you're genuinely saved you will turn to the lord and look the one who saves us is the lord jesus right not the friend jesus or the counselor jesus or the the helper jesus but the lord jesus he's the one who saves us and when he saves us he he changes us and now we live for god we have been born from above so there are people who hold to one save always saved you say but you but once you're saved you're in you receive eternal life you pass from death to life no one can pluck you out of god's hand nothing can separate you from the love of christ you're sealed when the eternal seal and and therefore if if if you go back to sin your life will be cut short or you lose some of your heavenly reward but you're still saved you're still saved because we're saved by grace not by works i understand that argument i i have a different response to that but here's what i want to say because i promised i'd be practical and thank you thank you for sharing that i really appreciate it because it's it is critical that we understand it is a false message that says you just pray a prayer and you're in there was there was a serial killer excuse me a mass murderer years ago i believe it was la fitness in pittsburgh and and this this mass murderer had read a book that said once you pray that prayer you are in you are saved even if there's no not even any change in your life ever and and if you do something terrible you might die younger but you're still saved he went out and slaughtered people in cold blood and then killed himself and in his own journal he'd actually said it hey worst case scenario is i just go to heaven sooner so that's a dangerous life thanks thanks thanks thanks for pressing in on that uh and and in point of fact many of you say yeah i agree you're saved to obedience but you can't lose your salvation so i just want to be super practical and look at the clock just make sure i get get this in and get to some more calls okay number one if you are saved you can fully trust yourself to god you never ever have to worry about his keeping power nothing outside of you can pull you away from him no one can pluck you out of his hand if you desire him he will keep you he who began the work will bring it to completion is the author and finisher of your faith you know how i feel about salvation i never ever ever and this has been for decades think at all about the possibility of quote leaving my salvation losing my salvation forfeiting my salvation never enters my mind why because i want to serve the lord why here when i get on a plane i trust the pilot i trust the plane i trust the mechanics that they're going to get me to where i'm flying if it's a long flight and i fall asleep for a while i'm not worried now potentially i could potentially i could open the emergency door imagine just open the door and jump out potentially i could but i'm gonna kill myself i don't want to just destroy the plane hurt others right so i'm fully at rest a million times more than that i trust god a million times more than a pilot or the mechanics or the manufacturer i trust god to keep me so i've been trusting my soul to him i never ever ever worry about losing my salvation because he's faithful and i belong to him and and i want him you said you ever sinned yeah i fall short but but that's not gonna unsave me in other words i thought a wrong thought or i said a wrong thing or i neglected prayer i wasn't kind to someone you're right you don't get unsaved just because you did one wrong thing all right that's on the one hand on the other hand if god forbid i decided i'm just gonna go do what i want to do or i'm gonna convert to buddhism or go back to traditional judaism or become an atheist or just go out and get high and i choose to rebel there's not a promise in the bible to me except if i repent god will have mercy the only other promise is judgment so if your heart's to serve the lord rest rest in him be secure if your heart is i don't need him i don't want him show me in the bible where it says you can't reject him as lord once you're saved show me in the bible where it says it's impossible for you to leave the father's house no one can pluck you out of his hand no one can separate you but god will not force you to stay so if you want to leave you can if you want to cast off his lordship you can and woe to you if you do you will forfeit everything if you deny him he will deny you but if you say lord i want to serve you you know my weakness and he'll keep you he'll keep you he'll keep you he is faithful all right hopefully simple truths there you'll find helpful let's go back to the phones liam in huntsville alabama welcome to the line of fire yeah thanks for having me dr brown yes you're very welcome um i guess the reason i'm calling um i'm a 58 year old male um uh in my youth um i uh i was uh i was gay and i owned gay bars and things like that and um to make make it a little shorter you know i was saved delivered from homosexuality and i don't have any homosexual feelings anymore but um at the same time uh jealousy or if you want to call it uh idolatrous or whatever feelings um you know about other guys and i've started a ministry where you know i help guys uh through addictions and same-sex attraction and all this sort of thing and i guess uh what keeps coming to mind is that um you know i grew up with a a kind of a codependent attitude and i'm just kind of wondering if um there's a way to know for sure that my motives are correct that my you know that that that my motivation for helping these guys is truly to get them saved and not some you know something of some need that i have that i'm trying to fulfill so so then first thank god for his grace in your life and his transformation and i would say that that anyone could ask a potential question about any ministry they do right in other words do i really care about people do i just want my name known do i really care about this or am i trying to make a living or even anyone could question things and you have to ultimately say what drives you what moves you when you are alone with god when you are on your face in his presence what do you want more than anything to the core of your being is it to see him glorified or to meet a need in your life is it to see these men get right with god or to to scratch some itch in your life you know i i was i was at a prayer retreat an eight-day prayer retreat oh i think it was december of 2020 and i was on my face before the lord and i said look to the core of my being to the depth of my being i want more than anything for your name to be known i don't care about me my reputation i just want you to be known well does it ever occur to me what do people think of me or my reputation yeah but that's not that's not what drives me that's not what drives me yeah but that's not that's not what drives me that's just humanity right so i would say that when you're before the lord you really dig deep and you really ask that question what do i really want that's who you really are and our humanity there's always potential flesh in some minor way but if this is your heart before the lord rest in that you're sure of that and then ask the lord if i have any codependent attitudes help me to get to the root of them the following program is recorded content created by the truth 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