Demons Are Real

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866-342-866-3487. I'll get to as many questions as I can. And as promised, I'm going to try to answer a bunch more questions that have been posted on Facebook and Twitter to answer on the air this week. Teaching at Randy Clark's Global Awakening Seminary. So students taking Masters and Doctoral level classes, we're focusing on revival and the Old Testament. So we've got seasoned leaders, we've got pastors, we've got counselors, we've got a wide range of people. So it's a really enjoyable environment.

Just finish teaching an afternoon class and then fresh over to do radio. Okay, Mike Brown, why are you talking about demons? Who wants to talk about demons?

I actually wrote an article for the Sex and the Publication Daily Wire some weeks back. I was doing a series for them, What the Bible Really Says about this, this. So we did on What the Bible Really Says about demons.

Why? Because it's a major subject in the Bible, and one that we hardly talk about. Do you know that in the Gospels alone, there are roughly 220 references to demons, unclean spirits? 220 in the Gospels. And then the book of Acts has people being set free from demons, demons leaving people. Even the prominent case in Acts the 16th chapter with the woman with the spirit of divination.

Paul drives out and shakes the city. I mean, major things happen. And then Paul telling us in Ephesians 6-12 that we don't wrestle with flesh and blood, that that's not our battle but with spiritual forces and heavenly places. And he lays out what that is. And then all the Bible says about the devil. This is an important subject.

And I haven't taught about it in a long period of time. That's one thing. The second thing is that the subject of deliverance is coming up everywhere I turn. Dr. Brown, what's your view on this? Dr. Brown, what do you think about this? I heard about this ministry during deliverance.

Someone will say, hey, I want you on my YouTube channel. I just want you to know I'm controversial because of deliverance. Okay, what's happening?

What's going on? So I really felt clearly. I mean, it didn't take the Holy Spirit knocking me over the head. It was so clear. So many people wanted to talk about this.

This is something that we need to address. And here's my big question. For those who say, ah, deliverance is crazy. We don't talk about that. Alright, what happened to all the demons? Where did all the demons go? They clearly didn't disappear after the cross. Demonic activity certainly didn't cease after the cross. The devil didn't just retire after the cross. Demons are not just on a vacation.

What happened to all the demons? If you've ever administered overseas, you'll often see people who are more visibly outwardly demonized. You'll be ministering and next thing some person starts to go wild, screaming and yelling or having some kind of fit and it's demonic. And this person is taken out so it doesn't disrupt the meeting and people minister and the person is set free and the next day you hear their testimony.

Wow, that's wild. Why don't we see it more in America? Let's forget the question about demons and believers. Let's forget the question for the moment of can a Christian be demon possessed or demonized or come under the power of devils.

Let's put that aside for a moment. Let's just talk about in the world, people here in the gospel, people who are certainly under Satan's power, certainly demonized if you want to call them demon possessed or demonized. What about driving demons out of them?

Wasn't that part of the Great Commission? Wasn't that part of the early mission of the church to preach the gospel, to heal the sick, to set the captives free, to drive out demons? Where have all the demons gone? It's my own belief, I can't give you a scripture for this, so this is just my own belief, that in the days ahead, even in America and countries that would claim more sophistication, that we are going to see more open examples of demonized people.

That the darkness will get so dark and the light shining in will get so bright that things that have been hidden, the things that have been more behind the scenes, the things that have been more subtle will be overt. You know, just like you had gay activists saying, hey, it's just about love, and here's a loving couple, and Jane and Joan, they've been in a monogamous relationship for 20 years, and they adopted a handicapped girl from Korea, and here they are on their front porch with the Labrador Retriever, and they're really nice people, and they're hardworking, and they're devoted moms. I believe that's all true. I believe such couples exist. I don't think it's just a myth. I believe such couples do exist, and I've talked to people like that.

I believe their story's no reason not to. Maybe that's your friend, your neighbor, your sister, and her partner. Could well be. But that face was the only face that was being presented, and the rest of the agenda, the rest of what comes with it wasn't being presented. Well, now you've got drag queens shaking their hips with toddlers, and a drag queen reading out or wearing satanic horns. Okay, it's more overt.

It's more overt. By that same principle, I see these things happening where maybe it's a college professor who's had some radical anti-God agenda and wants to remove age of consent for children and, you know, some sicko agenda. Maybe it's not just the words that will start to be more manifest and apparent, but the person's behavior that something demonic is going on, just something I expect to see. Like I said, it's not a fundamental tenet of faith. It's not something I can give you chapter and verse for. Just something I sense will come in the days ahead. It's not a prophecy.

We shall see. But let me just give you some representative Scripture. And as the question of deliverance kept coming up to me, I thought, well, let me just do what I know to do, just talk about what Scripture says. In Matthew 4, as Jesus is ministering, 4.24, they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, those oppressed by demons, those having seizures and paralytics, and he healed them.

So this is just part of those that were brought and were set free. Matthew 8.16, that evening, they brought to many who were oppressed by demons, and he cast out the spirits with a word and healed all who were sick. When he sends out his disciples in Matthew 10, heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons, you receive without paying, give without pay. Jesus says this about himself, Matthew 12. If I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom your sons cast them out, therefore there will be your judges. But if it's by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. So he's saying, you are falsely accusing me of driving out demons by Satan himself. And he's saying, if that's the case, then as your own spiritual sons or physical sons are driving out demons, whose power are they using? And he says, hey, if I'm doing it by the Spirit, then the kingdom has come to you.

Think of it like this. When the light shines, the darkness is dispelled. Have you ever flipped a light on in some old house and you flip the light on and all of a sudden all the bugs, the roaches go running? They're at home in the darkness with the light, they run. It's the same way with demons. When the kingdom power comes, they're exposed and they are driven out. And it is a sign of the advance of the kingdom when the sick are healed in Jesus' name and demons are driven out in Jesus' name.

Mark 1, 39. And he went out throughout all Galilee preaching in their synagogues and casting out demons. That's a summary of his ministry. Preaching and casting out demons.

Think of that. How many of us today have that as a summary of our ministry? Mark 3, having authority to cast out demons. Mark, the sixth chapter, when he sends his disciples out, it says, and they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them. I mean, it's just on and on through the gospels. The longer ending of Mark, for those that accept this as authoritative words of Jesus, these signs will accompany those who believe.

What's the very first thing? In my name, they will cast out demons. Luke 4, demons also come out of many crying, you are the son of God, but he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak. On and on and on it goes in the gospels. He gives his disciples authority over demons and disease.

Luke 9, 1, he called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases. So you see also that disease is some negative thing that's associated with demons. It doesn't mean that you're in sin if you're sick.

It could be the very godliest person listening to me right now. The person closest to Jesus right now is very sick. And someone far away from God is perfectly healthy. But the whole domain of sickness is a demonic thing.

In other words, it's part of the fall, it's a negative, it's destructive. We won't have that in eternity. You get into the book of Acts, like I said, you've got demons leaving, unclean spirits leaving. Acts 8 and Samaria, that's what happens in the ministry there. This is part of the ministry of the gospel.

Preaching the gospel, setting captives free. Peter in Acts 10, 38 summarizes the ministry of Jesus by saying this, that he was anointed with the Holy Spirit in power and he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil. So every healing is in a sense a deliverance because it's deliverance from the power of sickness. Every deliverance in a sense is a healing because it's making someone whole who is under demonic power. Paul writes, 1 Timothy 4, Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons.

These are things that are ongoing. Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 10 that with pagan sacrifice to the gods, they offer to demons and not to God and I do not want you to be participant with demons. So if you participate in this idolatrous practice, even not overtly and intentionally, but by joining in with what they're doing, their food, their drink and things like that, that you are now participating with demons. So demons are still a reality.

They haven't disappeared. And look at this, Jesus, go back to his words, Luke 13, 32, after he's told by some Pharisees that Herod wants to kill him. He says, Go and tell that fox, behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow.

And the third day I finished my course. This is how he describes what he's going to be doing, casting out demons and performing cures. Where have all the demons gone? What has happened to people being demonized? What's our role?

How does this fit with the church today? I just want to plant these seeds. I want to get you thinking. We'll talk more phone lines are open 866-348-7884. We'll be right back. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-344-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire, 866-344-TRUTH. By the way, if you are a torchbearer, a monthly supporter, you can listen for free to my 12 hour teaching from probably the late 80s, early 90s on spiritual warfare. So eight 90 minute sessions.

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Click on donate and monthly support. Okay, let's go to the phones and I'm going to go back online in a moment. We will start in New York with Reid and our broadcast team will bring you on because I'm remote right now.

Reid in New York, welcome to the line of fire. Thanks for joining us. Hi Dr. Brown, thank you for taking my call.

You bet. First, I want to do a two-part commentary. The first part is hopefully an encouragement for anyone who's listening out there. 30 years ago I was delivered, I mean 30 years ago I was saved from a homosexual lifestyle and I was in my early 20s. But shortly after that, I had no one to explain to me how to repent properly.

I had no one in the church to guide me through the process. So I backslid back into the gay lifestyle for 25 years and all that time I was demonically oppressed. And approximately 10 years ago the Lord brought me back to the Bible, back into church, and through the process I learned that I was dealing with a generational curse.

No one had ever explained this to me. It was purely through the Holy Spirit that I learned this. Now, five years ago, exactly this week, I was delivered from homosexual desires. That was through a healing service that I went to.

When I explained to the lady who was in charge of the prayer group, she told me that I was dealing with a generational curse. At that time they prayed for me, it made complete sense to me, and then I was delivered right after that. So, that being said, I just want to give that as an encouragement to anyone who might be dealing with same-sex desires, thinking that there's no way that they can get through this, because it was a process that was not explained to me. Let me just ask you this, Reed, and that's just incredible to hear. The mercy, the goodness, the power of God.

And it's a question I always ask. Why is it that we think Jesus can change us from anything, but not same-sex attraction? I mean, that's such a denial of the power of God, and such a failure to realize that as human beings we're complex. And there can be many different reasons that things are happening in our lives, and do happen, and freedom and deliverance can come in many different ways. So, when you say that you received a healing on the inside, in your thinking was it directly related to same-sex attraction, or was it just one thing had triggered something else that didn't even seem connected?

Well, I don't want to get into the story because it would take too long, but I had an encounter with a person who sexually assaulted me when I was 14. I had an encounter with him 10 years ago, and that was a catalyst that started the process of me beginning to heal. And the Lord was putting the pieces back together. So, I was already going through therapy at the time, so this was already in me. I was dealing with this internally. So, it was just a natural process of the Lord showing me through the Bible. You know, it was totally a prodigal experience.

But it was just a lack of understanding, really. And the Church didn't help me because the Church is still stuck in the past with dealing with these same-sex issues. Right now, I'm trying to start ministry within my Church now, and it's very difficult because people are still afraid to talk about the issue. And this is why you have drag queens in the pulpit.

This is why you have drag queens doing story time. Because people are afraid to deal with it. Yeah, Reid, I'm just going to jump in.

And first, thank you for calling and sharing that. Pastors, leaders, please hear what our brother is saying. I was talking to a leading pastor about this yesterday, and he said, how many pastors are willing to address this on a Sunday morning in front of their whole Church?

I'm thinking, I would think everybody because this is where people are living. The kids are being exposed to this. It's just an overwhelming generational attack and gender identity confusion and all this.

Young people are overwhelmingly dealing with this and identifying with their gay and bi friends and so on, saying, I'm bi, too, and yeah, I'm gender confused and so on and so forth. And teachers are teaching this and indoctrinating kids from preschool on. And they're getting bombarded with social media and TikTok and on and on, let alone movies and TV and the influence. And for pastors to not talk about this is negligent. Also, I think that there's a, as you mentioned previously in the beginning of the broadcast, I think people are discrediting or dismissing the spiritual supernatural element to it. Because I was dealing with a generational curse, and as soon as I was released from that, my desires went away. Now, I can't say everybody has had the same experience as me, but I do believe that there's a supernatural element.

Right, it happened to you. And Reed, I know so many people, and thank you, sir, thank you very much for the call. I've dealt with and talked with so many people that have come out of homosexuality, and some had a miraculous healing. Something worked, emotional healing. Some got set free from demonic oppression. Some went through years of counseling to dig deep and understand roots. Some saw complete reversal, went from homosexual to heterosexual. Some saw a lessening in same-sex attraction and were attracted to their spouse and got married and have a happy marriage and just resist temptation.

Others said, I haven't had the desires go away, but they're wrong and I say no to them. God can work in many, many different ways, but these are all real and, again, the supernatural part. It's not, it's probably way out of the gate, say a little prayer, but don't discount what God can do and how he works. Again, how multifaceted we are as human beings. And because of that, God may do something that touches one thing in us that brings results in another area. Hey, again, thank you for sharing that.

Pastors, leaders will say, I don't know what to say. We'll help you. We've got material.

We can point you to resources. And everybody, if you haven't watched In His Image yet, watch it. Show it to your churches, pastors, In His Image. You can watch it on YouTube. It's about an hour and forty minutes long. You can watch it for American Family Studios. In His Image, you go to In His Image, the movie.

Show it to your whole church and then if there's a bunch of questions, those involved with the movie, different ones will come in and speak at your church and answer the questions. All right, let us go over to Lisa in Morgan Hill, California. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Are you there, Lisa?

All right, not sure what happened. Maybe we can come back to Lisa. Let's go to Shannon in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Shannon, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, good afternoon, Dr. Brown. Thank you for taking my call.

You're welcome. So my question, of course, you know, is regarding drug addiction and demonic oppression. And, you know, reading in scripture, there were so many times that Jesus would heal even without the person there, you know, even the daughter being healed or, you know, or the son being healed. So, you know, in encountering drug addiction and someone is oppressed by that demonic, it's very scary.

It's very real. And, you know, there's been so much prayer of just, you know, Lord, will you just deliver this person from this? Will you just take it from?

Will you? And I think even just unsure of, you know, what is that prayer? What does that prayer look like? I know that, you know, drug addiction is, it's very dark, it's very scary. And when you're in that situation, you actually just realize that you're encountering a demon with that person. And so what does that prayer look like? Yeah, we've got a break coming up.

So I'm going to come back on the other side of the break and go straight to answering your question. If we're talking about someone under demonic influence who is drug addicted, how might that person be set free? Or is it wrong to make an assumption there's a connection between drug addiction and demonic power? How do these things work? Or can someone be a drug addict and bound, needing freedom, but it's a different type of freedom.

It's a physical or mental addiction. How does that interface with the spiritual realm? We'll do our best to cover all those questions. We come back on the other side of the break. You can call 866-348-7884. We'll be right back. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire. Remember to call 866-348-7884. Any questions, comments on any relevant subject, as we're pleased to have our phone lines back online.

866-34-TRUTH. I want to remind you about a couple important things in a moment. But first, back to Shannon's question about people needing deliverance from drugs. Not everything is a demon. Not all sickness is a demon, not all sinful bondages are a demon, meaning it is not in every case that someone needs to be set free from demons. When God saved me, I had lived the most sinful life I knew how to live, and my friends and I just opened up ourselves to every kind of demonic influence and played around with darkness and abused our bodies with drugs and our minds got caught up in all kinds of crazy stuff. Yet, we got saved. We got saved. None of us went through a deliverance of demons being cast out of us. God set me free.

He brought me to deep repentance, and then I was instantly free from drugs. Others, they go through the same repentance, but now get in a program like Teen Challenge because they have to break bad habits and they have to unlearn wrong ways of doing things. And it may take time to get freedom from certain addictions and so on, so it's not specifically that it was a demon that left as much as a lifestyle change. However, if you realize that this person is crying out and doing everything they know how to do to be free, and is still enslaved, and there's oppression with it, there's something pulling them back, then God can give us discernment. One of the gifts of the Spirit is discernment of spirits. We can tell what is the Holy Spirit versus what are demonic spirits, or what are angelic spirits versus demonic spirits, so there may be that clear sense this person needs deliverance. To me, it's not a specific type of prayer or the words that are said. As much as us using our authority in Jesus and saying, get out, leave, I'm not concerned whether the demon is in the person's mind or in their body or surrounding them. They are in that person's territory and they don't belong there. And therefore, for me, the prayer is get out in Jesus' name.

It is that simple, and if you don't see an instant result and you know that you are in a battle, then you keep persevering until the breakthrough comes. I'm going to go back to Lisa in a moment. We reconnected there, so I'll get back to Lisa in one moment. But I remember coming into the pastor's office where we would sit and talk before the services at Brownsville. And there was a woman laying on the floor and Steve Hill was driving demons out of her. And I just walked in. This was going on. And this woman had the deepest male voice I had ever heard. I'm not coming out.

I am not. I'm the last one and I'm not coming out. And Steve said, you will leave in Jesus' name. And then finally she shook.

And the next thing, Steve, I'm so embarrassed about what happened. It's like, whoa, that was her real voice. And it was really a demon speaking through her.

It was quite dramatic. Well, this woman had been in a line of witches, in other words, generationally, several generations of witches. She lived in a community with a lot of witches. And was really demonized when she got saved at Brownsville and set free. After she got her feet down but was still pretty new in the Lord, she was wrongly counseled. Like, oh, yeah, it's fine if you go back to that old environment.

You know, you'll be all right there. Well, she wasn't ready for it. It wasn't wise. And next thing, she came under tremendous demonic power again. And showed up and she had these like, not tattoos, but like kind of writing on her arms and different weird stuff. Anyway, she was in bad shape and Steve ministered to her and she was set free.

It was absolutely quite dramatic as it happened. But, you know, this is spiritual reality. These things are real. And let me say this. You do not base doctrine on experience.

It's really important. When it comes to demonic things, stuff gets weird really fast. I'm talking about extremes and weird teachings and weird practices.

And the key thing is that you cannot base your doctrine on experience because it may just be something that happens one time. Or it may be that demonic spirits are really trying to get us to go on tangents and get our eyes off the fundamentals of the gospel. That being said, I am convinced scripturally that we should be seeing much more deliverance inside the church and outside. Again, whether people are demon possessed or demon oppressed, what level of demonization, that's not even my issue here.

But clearly people are bound and need to be set free. And I believe through the ministry of the gospel that we should be seeing this. I say, well, it just happens through preaching. Well, why didn't it just happen when Jesus preached? Why didn't he say he preached and drove out demons? Why didn't it just happen when Paul or Philip preached?

Why did they also drive out demons? Why around the world is the gospels going forward? It's not just preaching, but now that's stirring things up and bringing stuff to the surface and people are being set free from demons.

I believe we should be seeing it more. But we must keep our focus where it belongs. On Jesus, not on demons. On the Word of God, not manifestations. On sound scriptural principles and practices rather than basing a theology on what we see happening with demons.

So it's important, but it's sober, and it's not something to play with. All right, we will go back to the phones. Lisa in Morgan Hill, California, welcome to the Line of Fire.

Hi, Dr. Brown. I'm actually calling for a unique situation because I'm a missionary in Berlin, Germany, and I think it's a bit different there. And I have a lot of friends who have homosexual friends that they want to bring to church, but they are hesitant because they feel like a lot of times what's said from the front just puts people off. And these are people who've never heard the gospel. They really have no exposure to church.

You know, it's like less than 1% Christian in Berlin. And my question is, at what point do we even have to say anything about homosexuality, or do we allow the Holy Spirit to convict people? Because I have heard stories where pastors felt pressured to say something from their members.

Hey, when are you going to confront this couple? And actually God convicted them and brought healing in a very unique way. So I guess it's just not cut and dried, is it, in every situation? And what would be some of your thoughts on that?

Yes, thank you for the questions. Number one, don't put homosexual practice in a separate category or a special category. It is a sinful practice like many other sinful practices. The issue to me is not the practice as much as the agenda. The reason that we're addressing things more from the pulpit is because kids are encountering this in school, and parents are encountering this in the workplace, and there's a bombardment. So it's the agenda. The principle that I've operated on for 18 years now as the Holy Spirit has spoken to me was reach out and resist. Reach out to the people with compassion. Resist the agenda with courage. So if I am going to say something from the pulpit, and if I was a local pastor, and I want to talk about, let's say there is a ballot about, we could vote about the meaning and definition of marriage, right? And I'm encouraging our people to do it, laying out what the Bible says. I always want to be thinking, there's a 15-year-old kid in the front row, suicidal, raised in a Christian home, thinks the church hates him, thinks God hates him because he has same-sex attraction.

He showed up this morning wondering, is there any hope for me? So I always want to have that person in mind, or the grandparent whose grandchild has come out as trans, and they're agonizing how to handle that. So whatever we say, we want someone that just walks in off the street to know, hey, they care about us.

They love us. Now, here's the other thing. Let's say there is somebody, their big issue is they're really immoral. They go on all kinds of one-night stands. Someone else has heavy porn addiction.

Someone else is an alcoholic. You know, there's all kinds of sins in people's lives. We don't every night read through a list of all sins. We rely on the Holy Spirit's leading and guiding. So if someone's coming into a church service, it may be that there's a message calling us to repent from sin without mentioning what each sin is, and the Holy Spirit's convicting.

It could be that on a particular night, you're led to speak on a subject for the very reason that someone's coming in the door who's struggling with that or who's justifying it. You know, I remember a prophetic brother telling a story of a guy that was in the front row. He was preaching, and this guy was in the front row. And he knew he was a hypocrite. He knew the man was living in sin.

He had this big Bible with him, and he was in this nice suit. And he was looking so righteous and saying, amen, what the guy was preaching. And the guy preaching knew that he was living in secret sexual sin and that he was a hypocrite. He just knew by the Spirit. So he kept giving opportunity for the man to repent during the service, preaching in a certain way that he should know that the Holy Spirit's revealing his sin.

And he kept putting on his show. And finally, the Lord gave this prophet a word of knowledge and said, if you don't want the people to know what you did in a hotel such and such room such and such last night, you need to get right with God. And the fear of the Lord came on him, and he did. I know another pastor told me a story of a gay guy came into the church to visit. Nobody knew who he was. But all these prophetic words came forth about the Father's love and about other issues that exposed great needs in his life.

And he, weeping, received the Lord that day. So we can't avoid talking about an issue that is affecting our society in profound ways and having a massive impact on the younger generation. The most recent Gallup survey from 2021 said that my generation, the baby boomers, 2.8 percent of us, or 2.6, 2.8, identified as someone on the LGBTQ scale. The generation older than me, traditionalists, it was under 1 percent.

Gen Z from 18 is like 23 years old. It was 21 percent identified as someone on the spectrum. George Barnard did the same poll.

It was 40 percent. So you've got these devastatingly high numbers. And it's just undeniable that people are being impacted, and we are being negligent as pastors if we don't help. But we always have to be thinking it's a very sensitive issue. People can feel rejected, come under condemnation. So last thing, you've got a couple in the church, and they are coming, an overtly gay couple, right?

Two ladies holding hands, embracing, and they've got wedding rings on. But they're coming in as lost people. Let the Holy Spirit work on them like anybody else, right?

Like the drunkard, the person that's sleeping around, whatever. If they claim to be members, they claim to be followers of Jesus and are members of the church, of course they have to be confronted like anybody else would be. A guy leaves his wife, moves in with somebody else, is still going to the church, taking communion, telling people how much he loves Jesus, he must be called to repent.

And if he won't repent, or if they wouldn't repent, then they have to be disciplined and put out, which is God's love to help bring them to repentance. All right, thank you for the question. We've got time for a few more calls on the other side of the break. Stay right here. Thanks for joining us on The Line of Fire. Before I go back to the calls, when I write, I so want people to read what I write. In other words, I feel it's important.

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Rafi, you are on the line of fire. Thanks so much for calling. Sure. Are you there? Yep, I'm here.

Yeah, go ahead, please. I just wanted to make sure I did the echo without... My main question is why are, in your opinion, are not more pastors doing deliverance? And I've had an encounter with deliverance since we have time that I would like to share, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on why are more especially charismatic, kind of hostile pastors not doing it?

Yeah, thank you for the question, and I would love to hear more about your experience, but just with time being short, it's probably going to be best if I just answer the question so I can get to some more questions as well. But in short, sir, I believe in most cases in our Charismatic Pentecostal services that it's out of sight, out of mind, and that we have structured our services in such a way that we don't really have a lot of room for the moving of the Holy Spirit outside of a programmed time. I understand that churches may have multiple services, that Sunday morning may not be the time where they can just have extended worship, that they'll do it in home groups, they'll do it in worship nights and things like that, or have times where they just have more liberty and the Spirit to move. So I'm not saying that just in a critical way, but many times, intentionally, we have structured out the spontaneous moving of the Spirit, or we're not looking for it, or the gifts are not being practiced and exercised the way that they ought to be. People say it's a charismatic form of worship, meaning we sing certain songs and raise our hands, so I don't want a charismatic form, I want the charismatic power of the Spirit. So that's one thing, the structure of our services, the mindset is not conducive to it.

And it doesn't have to be Sunday morning, let it be some other time where people come for a special prayer. The other thing is, like I said, it's out of sight, out of mind that I could do pastoral ministry and I'm preaching and teaching and building up the flock and working on getting healthy marriages and getting kids grounded in the Word and making sure that single folks are getting support systems and elderly are cared for and we're doing community outreach and just not even thinking about it. And it's not until the need arises, it's not until you realize all of our counseling is not helping this person, something deeper is going on, or the behavior is just crazy and what in the world is happening and there doesn't seem to be a psychological or emotional or physical reason, then you start to realize something's happening. You probe more deeply and you realize that some of the congregation have been struggling with the same issues for years and years and years and when they get set free, they're free. So, a lot of times it's not on our horizon, it's not on our radar, we're not thinking about it, we're not looking for it and because of that it's not happening and then when it does start to happen, sometimes it's very controversial and sometimes people go to extremes and then people react against that or, hey, this is just too messy. But, certainly, sir, it should be something that we're seeing more in our ministry on the streets to the lost and in our ministry to those within the four walls of our church community that need to be set free from demonic power and influence.

So, again, we're not debating whether a believer can be demon-possessed, we're saying can a believer come under demonic power from which they need to be set free and I would say it shouldn't happen because of everything we have in God, but it can happen through our negligence or sin or demonic attack. Hey, thank you, sir, for the question and I do hope to talk more about this in the months ahead, as it is something, as I said, that I believe the Holy Spirit is drawing back to our attention. Alright, well, we'll shift gears here and we'll go over to Billy in Georgia. Welcome, sir, to the line of fire. Hi, good afternoon, Dr. Brown. Hey.

Thank you for taking my call. Yes, go ahead. I have a question regarding the Hebrew translation of the Gospels. Okay. And I think specifically the Sephardic Gospels, do you think?

Alright, you cut out there, you said specifically something and I missed it. Okay, it's the Sephardic Hebrew Gospels. The Sephardic Hebrew Gospels.

Okay. There is a website for it, it's called HebrewGospels.com and I just want to know what you think about it. Oh, okay, so there's a lot to say about Hebrew Gospel.

Number one, it does seem evident that in the early church that there were some things that circulated. It could be a – alright, so it's Catalonia. That's how I normally – you mentioned Sephardic, right, which is perfectly fine. But I normally hear in terms of Catalonia or from some Sephardic.

Okay, all clear, all clear. So, we do not have a copy of any original Hebrew Gospel. It does not exist. We do not have early textual evidence, like we have thousands of early Greek manuscripts. We do not have early Hebrew manuscripts in the New Testament. However, there is attestation from several different church witnesses of either a Hebrew version of Matthew or a collection of the sayings of Jesus in Hebrew, some would argue Aramaic, that Matthew put together.

But we do not have it. In other words, if there was an original Hebrew collection of the sayings of Jesus or an original Gospel that Matthew wrote, maybe different than the current one that was in Hebrew, we don't have it. There were early witnesses that attest to seeing these things, even up through Jerome in the fourth century, but we actually do not have any extant copies of anything.

So, what do we have? We have, over the centuries, so a thousand years later, twelve hundred years later, after the New Testament, we have these documents that, according to everything that we understood, these were translations from the Greek into Hebrew. So, they're not a Hebrew original. When someone says, this is from the original Hebrew Gospel, no such thing exists, no such manuscript exists anywhere.

It's a myth. However, there are these later Hebrew additions which have historically been understood as translations from the New Testament Greek into Hebrew. But some scholars in recent decades have said, yeah, but this doesn't just look like a translation.

It looks like it preserves a different wording, or it looks like it's written in such a way that it's not the way you do translation. It seems to have evidences of being an original. The one that's popularized this theory the most is the Karaite scholar Nehemiah Gordon, and he's a legitimate Hebrew scholar, so we would differ on a number of points. But what he and others have argued is that the Hebrew Gospels that we have, although they are not, quote, the original, that they reflect aspects of an original Hebrew Gospel. With all respect to his scholarship and the scholarship of others who've looked at that, I'm very, very skeptical of it for quite a few reasons, and I see no evidence that a tradition was being preserved through the centuries in writing or orally that now, excuse me, undergirded these translations. So, they are translations from the Greek. I do not understand them to be original Hebrew manuscripts somehow passed on or a tradition that passed them on or recovered things over the centuries. Again, I know scholars have answers for this, but I'm very skeptical. For sure, though, for sure, what God did give us was multiple thousands of Greek New Testament manuscripts, and under any argument, the vast majority of the New Testament was originally written in Greek, not in Hebrew or Aramaic.

That's self-evident as well. So, when someone says this is a translation based on the original Hebrew Gospel, that does not exist. These are sources that should be handled in a very careful way, in a secondary way, that may give us some interesting insights and may possibly, here and there, preserve an ancient reading that we do have. I would love to see one day one of these ancient manuscripts discovered or a copy of a copy of a copy of one of these ancient manuscripts. I just don't think it's anything that we have today. And if it turns out that there is more evidence, that would be wonderful. Let us have whatever we can of things that go back to the apostolic age. I just don't believe that this is part of it. Again, it's a scholarly discussion, but that's my view.

There is no original Hebrew Gospel that anyone can quote from today, but maybe some things can be reconstructed from some of these. That's the argument. I'm skeptical about it. All right, friends, back with you for Thoroughly Jewish Thursday tomorrow. This is how we rise up. It's our resistance. You can't resist us. Another program powered by the Truth Network.