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July 19, 2018 4:41 pm
A controversial new bill has passed, and Israel will talk about that and is pretty risible form of replacement theology gives time for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown is a great joy to be with you on thoroughly Jewish. There is a Michael Brown here.
Here's what you do we get a chalk full broadcast over this next hour. You never get 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884410 open right now any Jewish related question of any kind now is the time to call because halfway through the shift gears to bring back on Dr. Brock college to talk about his book debunking printer is a member going to talk about how Prater is him as a form of replacement theology so it fits in well for thoroughly Jewish Thursday. I do have news from Israel to discuss with you but you be taking calls in the first half hour so 866-3487 84 if you have a Jewish related question. It could be related to Jewish tradition, it could be related to the Hebrew language or Hebrew Bible. It could be related to Israel in the Middle East today. Give us a call 866-34-TRUTH now controversial bill largely symbolic but with very powerful and controversial symbolism that has passed in Israel, Jerusalem Post reports this today controversial Jewish nationstate bill passes into law.
The law passed after a stormy debate full of theatrics that stretch more than eight hours so what is the bill say it says that only Jewish citizens will have the right for self determination in the future. So again it is a Jewish nationstate bill and their heads much protest against this.
You have to understand Israel is a very very strong democracy, meaning there are lots and lots of opinions and is wheat we just read a bit of this article to you of Prime Minister Netanyahu strongly supported this. It was a 60 to the 55 vote in favor he said 122 years after Hartsell published his vision we have stated below.
The basic principle of our existence. So again, it simply said this.
It simply said this only Jewish citizens will have the right to self-determination, meaning the determination of the direction of the Jewish state of Israel in the years ahead. Now you have Arab citizens who can vote you have Arab members of the Knesset. They make about 10% of the contested and they were very upset about this. You have those living in the so-called occupied territories, Westbank, Judea, Samaria. They were very upset about this. Palestinians living there. Basically they have been officially disenfranchised their vote. There contribution means nothing that would be the feeling and and that's understood.
That's why this was so contentious the other side would say this, what's the big deal. This is a Jewish state, and it must always have a Jewish majority in the Jewish majority must determine the direction of the Jewish state otherwise.
If it's going to be primarily Muslim then it loses its identity was can be primarily Christian abuses.
Identity if it's ultimately going to be so popular with Palestinians that outnumber the Jewish population.
Whatever the background of how students, Muslim, Christian, then it's going to lose its identity so that's always been understood that there must be a Jewish majority that governs the nation so part of the argument is nothing new. This is who we've always been, but just in honor of the 70th anniversary of Israel were just ratifying that by a bill that makes that very statement the other side could say look, we recognize this is a Jewish state, but it does disenfranchise us or Palestinians and say that that that we have no future under something like this and others.
Well, if you have a two state solution and it still works out anyway. I can understand sentiments on both sides of the one hand, Israel must remain a Jewish state. If it does remain a Jewish state that it has no identity by a Jewish state it, it does not mean a Jewish state run say like Afghanistan is a Muslim state were Saudi Arabia is a Muslim state other words, it is not the imposition of radical laws on the whole country or of extreme traditionalism on the whole country is much as to say it's a Jewish state versus a Muslim state versus a Christian state versus an atheist state. We follow the Jewish calendar. We recognize that God has restored us to the land. This is our heritage. We observe the Sabbath, etc. that's who we are as a nation as a people were Jewish state sought I can understand people saying the sum of always been what's the big deal, and I can us to understand others being very upset and there's that there's an argument to be made on both sides. There there legitimately is there was if I brought out people from both sides.
We got in from Israel right now and late at night and got him on the air and and we had those that voted for the bill.
Okay, tell us why you voted for the regular passionate argument we say yeah well done makes but how can anyone argue against that. And then we get some of the voted against the bill and they make their point.
You think yeah great points you say I what's your take on this might take is that as we get closer and closer to the end of the age that we may be 100 years away. We may be 10 years away.
We may be 300 years away. God knows but as we get closer. I believe that Israel will be more offensive to more people for right or wrong reasons. I believe the closer we get to the end that Israel will have more and more enemies to whatever piece we have and we work towards worse or call to called to be peacemakers. Whatever reconciliation there can be whoever Saudi Arabia can help work with Israel to get rid of some of the hostility and on what. Whatever can be done as positive. However, there can be valid role for Palestinians to play with a feel a part of the country where they have a right to self-determination and in their own setting, however, that works out. I am a proponent of trying to bring peace to the region. However, my own belief is that while we work towards that. We must, that ultimately any piece will be temporary and will ultimately be shattered by the world turning against Israel. So do I expect increasing nationalism in the days ahead. Yes, but I can't say the saith the Lord on it and I've honestly have mixed feelings about this bill. I see the good of it, and I see how it affects others.
I see the necessity of it and I see drawing the sub so I that's that's like I have mixed feelings about it for a number of reasons in the nation itself is divided over 866342 with that we will start going to the phones and we go to Larry and Florida.
Welcome to the modifier. Who will room what Michael role in my family. I have been arbor, a Christian you will and I have family members who no longer speak. I have family members of their front and I will Kirk I will have some little person they are angry thereunder with me. I I would ask you how could Oprah explain to me with all the prophecies were fulfilled or whatever. I don't understand a lot of the amount amount over what is my best are the best thing I can say to them in order, possibly get them to open their eyes to do I'm fearful for my people, my people are people. They don't they don't want ultimately to form a suitable piece worth about where I could possibly change their mind that Larry McMaster told you are 6565 at how recently did you become a follower of Jesus Dr. Brown.
I became a follower of roofing for your show on the internal career vehicle you serious that is extraordinary.
Larry all right, that that's amazing to hear and and I'm so I'm so gratified with that Larry and what was it that got you listening to the show.
I have a friend of mine who was really me about you and the good about through. I was working through the Claiborne berry and Mr. Rourke neuron with him. A good TV show and I said okay I heard about this guy and I listen to you and Dorian both of you are you are you are Jewish and I think of a chance or by put the radio on and I found you on the Internet and because you want on the radio and they were and I listened and I was so I was taken aback because you seem to be sent to the ring to the truth to me, so sorry. I looked into it and I found the will to listen with the truth why we denying a man who even when he was on the cross he looked on the report of the persecuted imports from Paul McCartney for generally don't know what they're doing, country, how can I not be God talking so I think that's what got me, but you're the reason why I investigated sex on Larry, that's that is thrilling to hear the Lord is so good and faithful and and for all people they associate Jesus with very bad things they look at church history, and they say will the church persecuted us crusades and inquisitions and and we been hated by Christians and how could Jesus be the Messiah. And they say that look that the Christian persecution of Jews led rights of the Holocaust and our people in centuries past die they died. Rather than deny that that the Jewish faith and and now you're willing to follow Jesus on your own. That's the worst of all things, and assimilation is our worst enemy. And now you just assimilated so it's looked at in the most hostile ways because they don't know who Jesus issuer really is and I don't know how, ultimately, will become Tim, there's a strengthening of our connection to the God of Israel, so we start with compassion, recognizing how they look at things and then the biggest thing to do is to to simply demonstrate a change life not try to argue and and bring up versus all the time but to demonstrate a change life to demonstrate what it means to have a personal relationship with God. Forgiveness of sins, and to pray for them in secret and then I want to send you my book, the real kosher Jesus. When you read it. I think it's gonna be a real eye-opener for you in terms of the Jewishness of Jesus. What Paul was all about how to respond to objections if it's really going to help you and then one of your relatives interested in similar cases they might get your contact info and send you this book for free learning plan and it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown of your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution.
Here again is Dr. Michael Brown looking to thoroughly Jewishness the Michael Brown eight Larry got cut off right at the end of our calls. If you're still listening out there, give us a call back 866-3487 84 want to send you that book, the real kosher Jesus. It will be a great read for you, give you further insight even to your connection your connection to our people through Jesus Yeshua the Messiah and an invalid formula lot on key issues to discuss and then if all your relatives is curious. It will read this there is a rabbi wrote about kosher Jesus and the Rabbi's friend Michael Brown wrote this book, the real kosher Jesus and right now father we pray for Larry for use for your spirit to continue to strengthen him. What a miracle coming to Lord at this age at Lord I pray for his family members that one by one by one. Their eyes would be opened to know Jesus. Yeshua the Messiah of Israel and men friends slowly do we do.
We are reaching people by God's grace for making a difference to all of you who support us and pray for us it's for people just like Larry 866-34-TRUTH we go to Raleigh, North Carolina Steve, welcome to modifier a good afternoon, Dr. Brown really is. Thank you sir. I'm a great bargain at eight by my unit in my study. Don't get it. Pretty simple, but it don't want that believe in open your mind up God day the land of Israel to that you and and provide their I get that. And I know that praying for brief moment be or to reform as I do and we do that will be glad that the nation, but can you explain to me where that conundrum comes for the other people trying to save it out and explain the way I understand it, but numbers might not be correct, but it Israel is making having to root them at the capital over 600 never mentioned want in the book of the law is law run strong as some air or any other book for that matter being that the capital of it. Explain that little bit further yeah well, sure thing so will give the. The best instruction in the worst construction the best construction is people say look God scattered the Jewish people because of disobedience. We believe the Bible and God says that when the Jewish people would repent.
He would bring them back to Lindstrom so they haven't repented and therefore they don't have a right to be there that's that's one way of reading things.
Another way of reading things is that the New Testament spiritualize is everything and what used to be earthly is now heavenly so these to be an earthly temple but now we become a spiritual temple. And there were earthly sacrifices, but now we have the once real sacrifice of the cross and in the same way their promises that God gave to Israel. I drive out the Canaanites. Now we drive out demons and we advance the kingdom spiritually. So everything is changed and become spiritual. Now it sounds nice except it's like telling a starving person that Jesus is the bread of life takes you by there someone hungry or telling the Palestinians and I brought the supplement. When I spoke at Houston conference in May that I should tell you what you're seated in heavenly places in Christ where you getting upset about the land lords. It's one thing to talk spiritually but okay. But where do I live with is a Jewish refugee come fleeing from Nazi Europe, etc. so that sometimes people say look scripturally that operate to be there for seven repented the answer to that is yes.
But just like Ezekiel 36 and elsewhere, God sent him to bring you back, even in your unbelief because my name is Greg last name right and and then as far as the Scripture promises. Yes, a lot is been spiritualize but the land promises are repeated in the New Testament when 21 says that the Jews them will be trod under foot by the Gentiles to the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. So there's an un-tell or Jesus speaking Matthew 19 about the time of the regeneration of all things, when the 12 disciples rule over the 12 tribes of Israel lives in the land and then ask the third chapter where Peter says that Jesus will remain in heaven until the time for the restoration of all things spoken by the prophets, and the time for the restoration of all things that the prophets spoke about includes Israel dwelling in the land in Jerusalem is the glorious capital and all the nations of the earth streaming to Jerusalem to meet with the God of Israel, so the best construction is that people have a wrong biblical interpretation, or that they they do feel for the Palestinians who say look, we been dwelling here.
Some of us were decades those of us for centuries, some for many centuries.
This has been our homeland and we been displaced and it's wrong so they have a humanitarian heart but that the worst construction is that anti-Semitism raises its head over and over that that everybody, everybody has a place to live except with juice so you have. For example, this amount surrounding Muslim Arab population is 650 times the size of the land of Israel. And yet Israel can have that one place and every other nation on the planet that says this is our capital the world recognizes it, except Israel so much to so much controversy with Pres. from Santa Fe.
We I do what our nation said back in the Clinton days root would officially move our embassy and and and make our recognition of Jerusalem is the capital tangible.
A simple thing and it's a work of workable thing and it's also reality because that is the working capital of Israel. And as you said, it's the place designated by God in Scripture as is that the, the capital city of the nation and it's the place to which Jews for centuries of said next year in Jerusalem and and religious Jews around the world.
Pray facing Jerusalem and yet in the Muslim world. Jerusalem has some importance as the city from which Mohammed allegedly ascended to heaven, but if if you're a Muslim and you live in Jerusalem you pray with your back to to Jerusalem and your face towards Mecca, so it is more than anything a political spiritual battle against the Jewish people and China's is coming. Jesus is coming back to a Jewish Jerusalem and therefore I was a this is not quite now.
If it's not where picked out near Bob that I like that they are.
I am now why the prophetic clock as well have started yeah let's say it's been taking all along but it's been taking a little louder. It's been taking with Henry as an advertisement and I look on the date setter. Everyone listen to the show knows that interest earlier in the show I I reference that as well. But here's what's really interesting. Someone said to me, but just think there are things in place now, which were not in place 100 years ago or 500 years ago or thousand years ago, one after another after another the gospel going around the world.
To the degree that it is the gospel spreading to the nations, to the degree that it is spread to the nations, that is unprecedented. The massive harvest of souls unprecedented and now a Jewish homeland with the Jewish Jerusalem.
So a lot of things are set that weren't said before, it's like you're waiting for for a guy a big sports event and your outside and okay will first innovator build the stadium here one day. But there's no stadium there now they they bring the team man and the date the stadium is built and now your outside waiting on lot now you're in now. The teams are on the fields I okay ready for the game to play.
So a lot of things are ready that were never ready before in history since the time of the death and resurrection of Jesus. So yeah, the clock is ticking more strongly again. What that means. Time was God only knows.
But let's let's recognize the significance of also Steve. I appreciate the call very much. This is an ultimate spiritual battle here all right. Unlike an aggressive number again because of a switch gears with a special guest coming on but real quick. Another headline for the Jerusalem Post says this police detain interrogate conservative rabbi for marrying people and he said Iran is here. The detain rabbi said about the religiously inspired arrest Iran is here secure. Here's the deal is the and the land of Israel. If you I get married, you have to be married by an Orthodox rabbi and mature Christian using are not Jewish, Christian or Muslim to get married by by a Muslim leader get married by Christian leader, but if you are a Jew you want a Jewish wedding. It must be by the Orthodox. They control those proceedings for marriage and divorce so they have disproportionate influence and control many secular Israelis hated so much they love over Cyprus just have a ceremony performed over there nearby island.
Say what will this do that rather than then do this. Now many is accepted and it's fine with them, and many love the tradition, but many others don't. So conservative rabbis that there are more liberal in their views is not conservative is first conservative politically conservative has another meeting in Judaism, but here's a conservative rabbi performing weddings and he gets 530 in the morning, waking his house by police detained and interrogated for what he's doing. Even though they have now so that we have a band we won't do any interfaith marriages… Only Jews marrying Jews and that's old performance will that make a difference.
That's that's debatable.
But I expect more of this in the days ahead of the Orthodox and UltraSPARC result or if the owner Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox that allowed me Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox population of Israel is only going to continue to grow and as it continues to grow. It's going to continue to increase in influence. Hence the conflicts as we get closer to the end of the ages. Gillick very much like in the Gospels and acts that you have some very religious leaders, some of whom will be hypocrites, but some very religious leaders very zealous, and arising thriving messianic Jewish woman full of the spirit right there in the land of Israel, supported by a praying witnessing church you have conflicts just like you read about in acts and in the Gospels of expected it for years. That's what I was in the midst of a conflict like this.
So what couple months ago this fall yet. Par for the course of expected this for long time that we come back switching topics theology printer is him wise printers and really a form of replacement theology stay right there and will be right in the light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. It is thoroughly years there is a welcome welcome to the broadcast.
Michael Brown delighted to be with you. One thing we've often talked about on the show is replacement theology, and it comes in different shapes, sizes and forms, and many of those that hold replacement theology, so they really don't and they recheck replacement theology, and yet in the and the results end up being the same, and it is a theology that one way or another, says that the promises that God gave to Israel in the Old Testament are no longer. There's either the church is the new Israel or it's only through faith in Jesus that these are realized or that Israel forfeited its opportunity and came under judgment but one where another the promise. Most specifically, the governor bring the Jewish people back to the land and establish them in that modern Israel today has any connection with biblical prophecy that is categorically dismissed, and hence another form of replacement theology. I want to talk about that today, but in the larger context. The context of predator is him full printer is him partial printer is him printers and simply talk about past tense, saying that many prophecies that Christians are looking forward to things we expect to see fulfilled in the future. The return of Jesus being most prominent curly that took place said what yeah that took place in in 70 A.D. with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, and the last days were worse and that ended then when Jesus said I'm coming quickly that he did.
He didn't and we need to rethink a lot of our theology. That is a full printer's position and my guest today, Dr. Brock Collett was was a proponents of that and and working on putting on the book defending that when he felt the Lord challenge him to revisit the subject.
We started the conversation a couple weeks back when his new book came out debunking printer is I wrote an endorsement for the book and put a positive review up on Amazon he quote source after source if the source from the full printer is in partial printer's position shows white breaks down scripturally. We had a phone call phone line problem in our connection.
So we are really starting the conversation today.
Dr. Howlett, welcome back to the line of fire.
Thank you, thank you for having me on the program all right and there you are allowed in clear in my ear. All right tell us if you could, in short, what, what was the fundamental appeal of printers and what is it that got you hooked on believing in that system. One time, so in the New Testament there are several passages where Jesus and his apostles spoke about his coming to the coming of the Son of Man. If you will it that would it would happen soon.
Near at hand. There are identifiably up about 100 passages in the New Testament that are considered prime indicators if you will, on some of the most I would say powerful of these are the ones that refer to his returners or his coming. If you are souvenir in her hand and so the idea that predators would say if they would say that these time statement are actually demonstrating that Jesus had to return to his contemporaries. In other words, those who are in front of him is his immediate audience would actually be there when he came and so there's, of course, differences of opinion about what the coming of the Son of Man is partial, predators would say that it's talking about a judgment coming of sorts. In A.D. 70, when the temple was destroyed, and full predators would say no. This is the actual return of Jesus in A.D. 70 courses is a heretical position right so basically we would have differences with partial prejudice. On one level, but your book debunking printer is him is really going to focus on the full predators position that says Jesus came in 70 A.D. it okay so if that's true, what happened to Israel, and God's promises to Israel and Israel's role as a chosen nation. So if if a person believes that you came in A.D. 70. If the destruction of the temple was somehow his coming and there are many events that unnecessarily would have had to take place taken place in the first century. For example, for partial predators. It would mean that there is some type of consummation of God's kingdom. At that time. For many partial predators they would see the end of the age is happening in the first century. For example, Gary DeMar NT Wright and others.
And then there would be others who would say it's not the end of the age because they recognize that the end of the age is connected with the resurrection of the dead ones in places like Daniel chapter 12 and in the New Testament, Matthew 13. In other places, so they had no matter what predators position they take if they believe the coming of the Son of Man happened in A.D. 70. They have to at least put some type of kingdom consummating event in that time.
They also have to believe based on several other passages that God's plan and purposes for the nation of Israel as a nation or the Jewish people as a covenantal people that God has a special set-aside covenant for them that that that they have been permanently rejected, divorced, and some predators writers even use the language of executed the result of that. Then as you have a supersession is more a replacement theology where the new covenant Church, which they usually view as a basically Gentile church has permanently and forever and completely replace the Jews of the covenant people of God. So in essence, God no longer considers the Jews in his covenant nation. So God has scrapped his original plan and he's onto another plan which is a Gentile church and of course it has many implications for not only the Jewish people with the redemption of the world and how we interpret many passages in the Scriptures. Well, then, of course, even some friends would say individual genes can be saved course, like everyone else.
But there are no national promises that remain and and I did interact with Dr. DeMar face-to-face we we had a cordial debate on some of these issues and he was willing to posit thick that there could be a future corporate salvation of Israel. Somehow that he could see that that the idea of God bring Israel back to the land now or in connection between that prophecy was was completely impossible.
So when it breaks down on a practical level that he would he would strongly reject that and our member talking to Hank Hannah graph one time and we had dinner together and he quoted Matthew 24 with the disciples say will be the sign of your one of these things happen. The destruction of the temple will be the site becoming into the age. He said the end of the age of sacrifice. So in other words, the texture to be read and reread by the serious students of the word and in a very very different way with very different implications. You have a whole chapter in the book, focusing on printer is him as a form of replacement theology.
How do predators respond to that. They say your right or do they take issue with you yesterday they do for the most part, I mean like I said before, with with folk partial progress. For example, you know, DeMar and NT Wright and and those of their ilk who basically believe the Olivet discourse.
In all took place in the first century and of course full predators who also believe that but have other beliefs as well. They have to believe that the end of the age happened in the first century. Now Kenneth gentry and RT France and others disagree with that and they actually like us to put the end of the age in the future which creates a whole another set of difficulties to each each type of predators and actually has an entire different types of difficulties.
For example, DeMar's position in those partial predators that put the end of the age. In the past necessarily put the day of the Lord in the past as well, which we know from the warnings of Paul. This is a very dangerous and I think many would consider this some type of heresy or something verging very close to a heretical type position. They do have the benefit though that they have their hermeneutic is consistent and the Olivet discourse. In other words, they don't have to divide the discourse then and play the part of it is passed. Part of it is future and actually have a chapter in my book devoted to the difficulties and the inability to consistently divide the Olivet discourse with her that I have a benefit thereby putting the day of the Lord in the past is very dangerous for a variety of reasons, and then those like gentry to say no.
The end of the ages future, the resurrection, therefore, which they understand correctly as being connected with the end of the age is in the future.
Some of the benefits they have. If they believe the day of the Lord is also future which it is we would agree with them on his futurist, but again they have to divide the discourse on the crew. They create all kinds of artificial problems as well. There is course the Olivet discourse and and is in all past is in all future is the past and future. That's a discussion, debate week we could have been something of course I've thought about meditating on for decades coming out of the dispensational's background. One way and then how I read today and and how does Matthew laid out versus Mark versus Lucan and seemingly for this as a whole other discussion that that's worthy of having but let's let's take this one issue say the day of the Lord. Second Peter three talks about the day of the Lord and at this time. The elements are gonna melt with fervent heat that the universe is basic and be burned up in God's gonna make a new heavens and a new earth. How in the world with a full predators say that has a ready happened so yes so that their presupposition is when Jesus said this in the Olivet discourse, this generation will not pass away to all these things take place they correctly see all the events put the prophetic events that he spoke up prior to that statement as having needed to take place prior to his coming so they they see that, but by by saying that this generation had to mean his contemporaries.
Now all of a sudden they have to put the coming of not only all the prophetic events the Olivet discourse, but the coming of the Son of Man in the past as well, and I would argue the end of the age. In the past as well. They have they have to make that case. So by doing that they they basically shut everything in the past when you look at passages like Daniel chapter 12 and it defines what the end of the gauge is all about. We see that at the end of that unprecedented tribulation, which he defined as the at the end of the time of the end there would be a resurrection of the dead, and he describes that he describes the events leading up to that end, gives us some some very interesting passages, but at any rate, so if you're partial predators. You have to sort of say well yeah, the resurrection may have happened then in some spiritualized sense, which compromises basically compromises the central doctrine of Christianity unwittingly went out and went book or they have to say.
Well, he's not really saying that the resurrection would happen, that time is just giving a statement of certainty or something along the lines of the have to explain it away. It's really dangerous predators. Of course they see the implications there and then they have to create all kinds of other problems by seeing the resurrection and the past I will.
I just just jump in and they're gonna break and you continue to celebrate with this a comment that a predators reviewer really took issue with Lee said that consist predators is the modern expression of the ancient heaven and heresy and of full predators and differs from biblical Christianity in every area of theology and its materiality ecclesiology hematology talking course eschatology really say it's the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 8664 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown yet. Welcome to thoroughly juice Thursday as many times as I often coming, but welcome welcome on speaking with Brock Holland, a medical doctor but with extensive theological training and earned degrees and he's the author of debunking predators him but there was indeed an endorsement for one of the things that I like best about the book was extensive quotations from prominent proponents of partial predators. Him and full predators.
Him and and I felt that it was well done and that people were fairly quoted in Dr. Hall that will come to certain conclusions that every I think we all agree with others like him alright let's look at that list come back. These are all areas where you have a lot of debate and discussion, a critic writing a review on Amazon so I encourage you if you if you got the Buchman help I post review because Rosie I have folks that really take issue and it's good that folks that read it and appreciate it. Get online post review any disk is a more balanced feel because many times the critics will be quicker to to post with a different but the critics as it goes without saying this, but by how this just another overly exhausted argument in favor of Orthodox eschatology and historic realism rather than an honest look at how the Scriptures defined the last days regarding the Judaic eschaton Brock that the attack to me sounds a little arrogant, but I've gotten that sometimes especially from full predators that even though their position is so radically different from what the early church taught and believed that they are somehow the orthodoxy everybody challenges them gets going to have you run into that and in writing this book that that you really can't hit a wall of getting scorned and mock for daring to challenge that system absolutely no question about it and I found that many people progress. Are you willing to entertain the thought that their position could be incorrect.
They really don't press back on their position. They've they've built a wall of boundary maintenance that so thick that many of them are just not willing to entertain the idea that they're not familiar with many of the arguments they been burned by by different positions in the past that were not in a quite correct on their eschatology and as a result they bought into this new position and they've insulated themselves.
There yeah and look similar. Dr. Don Preston full predators to his written dozens of books on the subject we've debated twice and he he wants to debate me on the resurrection is the past or future. II just don't know this reason to keep debating after doing a couple lease so summer say hey let's let's have debate and and and I had debate with with Dr. Gary tomorrow mentioned that earlier but I have been surprised them it's a position that challenges so many fundamental things we believe, and again is clearly different than what the disciples of the apostles taught and believed that to take on this this attitude and mock those that they differ that is disturbing is also in writing this book, you pay a little bit of a price you know that absolutely yeah alright so so let's let's talk about a couple of specifics. How do you break down Jesus talking about this generation. I reviewed that chapter again before the interview, so a a predators would say when Jesus of this generation will not pass Matthew 24 until everything is fulfilled. That's it very simply means that generation. Many reading is this generation speaking somehow for future time and others in that the generation that will see certain things happen that generation, and other say just like Old Testament prophecies had an immediate and a leader fulfillment. It's gonna be the same here.
There's an immediate fulfillment and 70 and distant fulfillment you you reject those views and and look at all the relevant passages what you come up with in terms of your understanding of this generation. Yeah, I was shocked I did a when I did a study of this generation. I found the many things many things that were very important. Elucidated or help clarify what Jesus meant by this. There is a certain versatility to the language in other words, it can be understood in a couple different ways without going too much into it.
I do believe Jesus is hiding up a mystery here a puzzle if you will a prophetic enigma by giving us a couple interpretive options and I think that it hedges a sin to look at the other passages where this this generation is being used and asking us what what of I said elsewhere in Scripture where the Holy Spirit given to the prophets, and so forth. The argument the predators would make their they would say for example DeMar would say look this generation clearly included the contemporaries of Jesus, so therefore it had to happen backbend but what he fails to recognize as many predators there is that it doesn't clue the contemporaries of Jesus, but is not restricted to that time. Is not restricted to them.
Could we usually use in our modern vernacular generation almost always is time period of 40 years 100 years, 70, or something like that. All those living at a given time.
If you will, however, when you do a study both in the Old Testament, the Septuagint in the New Testament you find the that this word I would in the New Testament comes across as good may or generation is is use for often refers to offspring birth, descent, and it's not restricted to a timeframe but a quality or character.
People in it goes all the way back to Deuteronomy chapter 32 and what we popularly know as the song of Moses number two songs of Moses. But this one is in Deuteronomy 32 and here Moses rebukes the if you will. Offspring uses the word offspring of Israel for the evil inclination of rebellion and stubbornness and he talks about them no longer being God's children because of acting corruptly with their idolatry.
Now this kind of language that he uses is used in the New Testament also describe the wicked, among the Gentiles, so it's not a racial slur and ethnic issue were dealing with an issue of the heart were dealing with the seed of the serpent that goes all the way back to the two Genesis back to the Garden of Eden and basically there. The what's going on here is we see that the prophets use that song of Moses the quote. This language of this generation is evil and adulterous generation. This wicked generation. A crooked and twisted generation that uses all throughout the Old Testament to show that there is a a an ongoing perpetual nature to this generation is not limited to a time. And so when Jesus picked up his language.
She's not doing so in a vacuum. He sees in the line of the prophets being the prophet par Exelon being the son of God. He is easy. Utilizing the language of the prophets, and they were suggesting that there were many generations. If you will were evil. They were saying there something perpetual and ongoing as is the father. So are the children all the way back to Cain and able you know this is something that always been going on and will continue to this, the state of evil inclination to do the will of the enemy.
These children of vipers until win until the end of the age when Jesus comes in glory and put them into this so is if you were just going to restate that in your own words. When Jesus said, this generation will not pass. Would you be saying something like people of wickedness are people rejecting God or this hostility will not pass until all these things are fulfilled. How how would you how would you restate that you know I don't know that I could do a better Dr. Brown. At that exactly what I would say God so someone Jesus is saying this generation is always seeking assign this generation is evil, and so on and so forth, rather than just think in terms of of a timeframe saying it like you just like your fathers are so it's not saying this race. That's an argument. Some of tragedies, which really doesn't work right Jewish race. It's it's really forcing it blind to say this generation in terms of the makeup of the people or the type of people who have been in rebellion.
Is it just like what Paul writes to the Thessalonians in the second chapter, and is talk about what he suffered from the Jew dance who have historically always done XYZ they killed the prophets. They killed the Messiah. Now they're persecuting us that it's it's that same kind of reading and ending its look you layout the Scriptures verse after verse after verse painstakingly and say look at the evidence so that's why want to discuss it because it's an interpretation often here right two minutes or less. How you can sort out all these things about this can happen or I begin a revelation.
This was going to happen quickly of the things it can soon take place from coming quickly or how do we sort that out of Jesus didn't actually come in some way in the first century to those people then what we make of those saying some coming quickly that the coming of the Lord is near. He's at the door. How we understand this so becoming of being soon near at hand, and so forth. This is the same language we see for the day of the Lord throughout the Old Testament prophets we see the knife they oversee all throughout the prophet so when they were saying that the day of the Lord as soon near and at hand they were seeing things through God's will and they were giving us a prophetic perspective that sees ultimately the eschaton of the things of the end is press, always pressing into the present New Testament scholarship. They understand that this is something that's very very well understood and it's really the only way to see in my my opinion to see the lenses of eschatology is to see these things about the end the coming of the spirit. The new covenant realization the kingdom of God. The glory of Messiah as breaking into the present. Even now, and this is also true through the historical judgments upon the nation upon the covenant nation and upon the pagan nations as well. There is an essence in which this is a prefiguration of the final day of the Lord, which is ultimately what all the prophets look towards this so please think about that number one there's a sense of it could be any moment and could be distant in the church is live with that and I live with that. All my life in the Lord and I will also it's coming 500 years and five years you know there's that sense of heat heat.
He's at the door, but you don't know how close it is.
And then there's the other sense that there were many many days of the Lord. Recall the coming judgment that was a prefiguring of the greater judgment so I have no problem saying Jesus came and judgment in your 70 and Jesus came and judgment at this time in history did in that sense that there been many coming civil war, but the second coming.
The coming that were waiting for his appearing. At which point will be no more sorrow and sighing in tears that didn't happen in the year 70.
No way no how hate so we are at a time, but I hope your book its wide readership will do whatever I can to help people get it.
Look at it debunking creditor is a rocksolid Lord's blessing be on you and stand strong as the attacks keep coming. Men like brother have her head. I