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Best of Broadcast: Jewish Traditions About a Suffering Messiah

The Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
October 4, 2018 4:50 pm

Best of Broadcast: Jewish Traditions About a Suffering Messiah

The Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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So does Judaism believe in a suffering Messiah or not it's time for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown welcome friends to today's line of fire broadcast. This is Michael Brown coming your way, live from right outside of San Diego in beautiful sunny California. The weather is very nice here welcome to light a fire, 86634. Truth is the number to call 866-34-TRUTH 87884 with any Jewish related questions as it is thoroughly Jewish. There is that now everyone listening on radio.

Everything sounds exactly as it always does is, it should because we have our high tech on the road, audio equipment, but we got some additional equipment now so that we are hopefully giving you a feed on video as well that will all right there we are okay looks good.

Hopefully you'll be able to hear the calls and everything coming in so hopefully the fetus can be high quality if you're watching on Facebook and we may also be live streaming on YouTube is also futile. Watch for sure go to the Esther to Brown Facebook page 86634 some interesting Jewish news. I want to touch about the traditional Jewish teaching about a suffering Messiah. And of course all of your Jewish and Israel -related calls was more liberty call 866-34-TRUTH okay there is a recent news item out of Israel that a number of ultra-Orthodox rabbis Kothari D which and he was is literally a trembling one crumbles it God's word so that the car ID. The ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel there multiply hundreds of thousands and they are not all of one group at a number of their key rabbis have now outlawed smart phones similarly against technology. Note there very much aware that through cell phones through Internet and now through smart watches as well that you can access pornography easily, and the things that the community did not have to deal with on this level before it's had to deal with. There was a meeting with tens of thousands in New York City a few years ago where one leading rabbi after another got up and talked about the dangers of Internet and talked about the dangers of kids getting pornography on cell phones and things like that and Judaism believes in making a fence around the Torah which means this, let's say that the law says you can't go over 60 miles an hour. Well, then Judaism would say don't over 50.

This way you will propel on if you go over 60 you could slide off the road and get killed Judaism so don't over 45 and in another words just put a hedge of fence around it, not with the intention of being legalistic, not anything under with law could end up legalistic their play. Christians were legalistic in their court under grace but the concept of philosophy is simply this, that when you make a fence around the law that you are helping people not to transgress.

That's the philosophy that is the mindset so they said, look, some allowed cell phones with those that you had certain things to block Internet access and can only be used for for for making calls now smart watches you can obviously get certain technology and an and get things that you can see on your phone connected to your you're a C underboss connected your phone so any any way. In keeping with this mentality of making a fence around the Torah, or as others would just say, keeping far away from sin. They have now ruled that they cannot use smart watches now.

I very much appreciate the spirit behind which is a plague pornography that's affected the church and to just say be self-controlled, be diligent, vigilant. Yes, that's important. Of course, recall to do that and as followers of Jesus we say by the Holy Spirit, we can overcome these things at the same time do we have safeguards in our lives. Maybe you have accountability software or maybe do other things to make sure you have an accountability partner you have other things in your relationship with the Lord that that help keep you from this so I understand the sentiment of these rabbis to do with the problem is, it's difficult to keep yourself totally from intersect with the world around it and here's what I find interesting that I've had rabbis over the years, criticize Christian teaching or New Testament teaching, and they have said look is not realistic. It makes it as if the world itself is evil words Judaism takes the things of the world and sanctifies and takes the mundane things of the world and makes them holy. I appreciate that as well. But in point of fact, look if you're an Orthodox rabbi ultra-Orthodox rabbi and a woman goes to shake your hand, wanting to shake her hand. If I say oh there's a beautiful beautiful CD.

I'd love to give you. It's got some great songs. Those chanting the Psalms in Hebrew, but there women's voices on the religious uses of mansard so I can listen to woman's voice singing as it could potentially be to central so let's just say that very traditional Judaism puts up all kinds of walls that make it difficult to live in this world as well were sometimes the gospel since they were in this world. Here's how were in it, but not all of it following 866-34-TRUTH before I get into into some more aspects of traditional Jewish teaching and talk about the suffering Messiah. I wonder the phones early today for two reasons. One, because I want to see if our connection is working properly. So if you're watching.

You can also hear the calls as well and to, why not having a lot of calls so time for calls in the last couple of days filled with 28663423 start in Wichita, Kansas Adam, welcome to want to fire narrator doing very well thank you, I was listening to you and Dr. Wright regarding my last week talking about the properties of Jesus and will not and I do have a quick question with.

I'm wondering if there any place in the Old Testament where a unit and I would come during rain during his reign during ranking during the note that there are no processes that specifically say that the Messiah will come during the reign of a specific king. In fact, there was a specific Israelite king that one would've been expected to be Messiah and in other words, each king in the line of David in a David and Solomon and then follow through that with the kings of Judah. There is expectation that this king would be a great deliver mighty deliver is a continued to fall short. The people realize we needed a greater deliver. We need someone great in the earth became we need someone even greater than David know the only argument that you could give is in Genesis 4910 that the scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom tribute is to dispute about the the word Shiloh. She low executive means there is a name is a talk about the one to whom tribute given etc. but we understand that the messianic prophecy in the ingathering of the peoples of the obedience of the peoples would be to him and in any case, there it says that Judah will still have authority on some level before the Messiah comes, and some have argued that once you have the destruction of the Temple and the scattering of the people that you do not have Jewish authority and governance in the land and because of that, because you have Jewish authority and governance in the land that the Messiah had to come within that timeframe, so that that would be the strongest argument you could give them in that regard.

But no, there's not a prophecy that the Messiah will come during the reign of a specific king a and B that we can make a strong case based on other passages Daniel nine, Malachi 3 Haggai 2 that the Messiah had to come before the second Temple was destroyed. That's the strong argument that I'll bring one more question in my uncle yet have a time to go hit, but people on here.

They don't believe that was the what are they doing out a data not look for Messiah anyone, although not quite, quite the contrary case. First thing Adam have secular Jews who are not looking for Messiah and all their secular Jews. Like other secular people in there that I think about the age to come, that I think about the Messiah or anything like that. This number one number two religious Jews would say all the more reason to be praying for the Messiah long for the Messiah to come because he hasn't come yet it was for traditional Jew we don't have peace on the earth. We don't have the messianic kingdom on the earth will have universal knowledge of God. We don't have all the Jewish people following the Lord. If we know that the Messiah has not yet come from a traditional Jewish viewpoint, so will you. Do you pray for us coming.

You long for us coming you you intercede you so traditional Jews are praying several times a day for the coming of the Messiah every day professing faith in his coming, believing that he could even be among us now and and will be manifest in seen so yeah traditional Jews continue because in their mind with the Messiah was supposed to do has not been done yet there for the Messiah has not yet come. Hey thanks Adam for the call. Much appreciated. 866-348-7884). This question about Judaism and the Messiah, let let's understand this belief in Messiah is very important for traditional Jews, but it does not have the same role in their faith is belief in Jesus the Messiah does for a follower of Jesus, traditional Jew would say that Messiah is important, but they could live without Messiah notes on a daily basis. They could do with they believe the Messiah is called to seasonal what we as Jews are called to do the day on a daily basis could still perform the Troy etc. for traditional Jew to live without Cheraw to live without God's teaching commandments that would be massive disorientation that would be massive question massive confusion. What we do with life. So in the same way. You cannot have quit Christianity without Christ.

You cannot have messianic Judaism without Messiah the same way. You cannot have traditional Judaism without tradition, you cannot have rabbinic Judaism without the rabbis so the teaching of the tour expanded by the rabbis expanded by Jewish tradition. So, while Jews are praying for the coming of the Messiah on a daily basis.

Their emphasis is on obeying God's commandments seeking to please him by keeping his commandments and living in that way in this world and by the way, I don't take it as a criticism that quote you can have Christianity without Christ think it is a criticism any more than if your man, you can have marriage without a woman in marriage is a good thing and a wonderful thing and a beautiful thing.

So with that again I'll take it as a negative, but please understand that a traditional Jew as as important as faith in the Messiah is for traditional view, it is different for traditional Jew versus a messianic you for us, we see the fullness of God expressed in Jesus the Messiah and our worship of Jesus the Messiah is worship of God himself so we deftly see that from a different perspective. All right short break will be right back and I'll start to open up to you. Some Jewish additions about the suffering Messiah. Any call you have heater related Jewish related Israel related, but I file the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH dear again is Dr. Michael Brown. I music 866-34-TRUTH you got Jewish related questions. We've got answers for you today. There are very interesting traditions of Judaism about a suffering Messiah. Most Jews are familiar with the traditions of victorious Messiah Messiah who rule in brain, the Messiah, that you should pray for the daily basis. They will come and establish his kingdom on the earth.

And that's beautiful and wonderful and we too long to see that we understand that's what Jesus is sure will do what he returns in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who don't know God at the same time Judaism actually does have a lot to say about the suffering Messiah. Some of the traditions refer to the Messiah, meaning the Messiah son of David, but some of the traditions also refer to another messianic figure in traditional Judaism called Messiah son of Joseph, and he cannot familiar with this of alluded to many times on the year in Jewish tradition and and I think you be Scripture focuses on the Bible but in Jewish tradition, he fights the wars of the Lord and then in the last great war is cut down in battle and dies and the size of David raises him from the dead. Now here's what's really interesting. There are traditions about the suffering Messiah in the Talmud in traditional Jewish sources timeout Messiah son of David and one of the most famous talks about the Messiah, sitting by the gates of Rome so this is after the time of Jesus, but within a few hundred years okay and the roads were not talk about hundred years ago we talk about something 1800 years ago and the Messiah is sitting outside the gates of Rome and when when a rabbis is asked how was he going to recognize him as he sitting among the lepers, those with severe skin disease again. Traditional talked about on the air as well.

Many times that that whereas the others are changing their wounds they are changing their bandages, etc. that cover their wounds so that they take all the bandages off and then they put new bandages on that the Messiah just takes off one bandage at a time just in case Israel needs modes just in case it could be time for redemption and but notice that he's suffering the why is this it would make sense that Judaism has traditions about a suffering Messiah because the Jewish people. We been suffering for history we've suffered an exile. We been outcast. So here the Messiah is one of us there other Jewish traditions that depict the Messiah sitting in heaven carrying the pains of Israel and if he did not carry Israel's pains.

Israel could not endure fascinating traditions found in Judaism and am going to share some of them with you in a little while whole books have been written on the suffering Messiah in Jewish tradition. All right, let me just look here and see here so Walter here on Facebook when you say that his name is Joshua, can you give me evidence for that sir. The Hebrew and that the Hebrew Bible, the Hebrew text that we have vocalized call him the issue and then with that same name, your host you a Joshua in short form issue occurs 27 times in the Hebrew Bible for about five different people then we know that in Greek comes out is Jesus which are also presume that a sound that the being the issue that we know the Syriac ancient Aramaic translation has the equivalent that would also give us "a". Hence the issue so please someone give me textual linguistic evidence that the name is Joshua I don't divide over it. There's simply no evidence for you say, but the yacht element has to be there no in names it gets shortened and changed in many different ways. There is a questionnaire from Josh house. Daniel called righteous in Ezekiel 1414 if he didn't have a temple to do sacrifices or Yeshua to die for him.

What ever God had revealed to the people of Israel. If people believe that and acted on his word.

They were called righteous.

What about Abraham. He lived before there was a temple right before there was a formal temple with formal sacrifices for atonement ordained under the law by God, but it tells us that he was justified by faith. So those who believe what God has spoken and promised and then act in obedience to that are declared righteous. Galatians 3 says that Abraham had the gospel preached to him was the gospel through your see the whole world will be blessed so that is how we see the gospel being preached the gospel being believed the gossiping act on even though it was only in seed form Sarah ass X is 2122 about injuring a pregnant woman raw sponsors. The penalty shall be life or life had been Ezra says the injury does not apply to her fetus baby Fritz not considered to be alive until it comes forth into the air of the world is really fine for that of a pregnant woman, skilled with the person would be charged with tumors, not just one. Of surprise, when I read this and wanted to know your thoughts on this is Sarah, thanks for the literate question rush from rubbish little bit in the year and then Ibn Ezra Abraham Ibn Ezra. These were great medieval biblical commentators in Judaism and there is debate even among Christian scholars and translators. How we render Genesis 2122. The question is so two men are fighting and then regularly gets hit and does it say that she miscarry's or doesn't say that there is no harm to the baby. One understanding is that there's no harm to the baby. Then there is just a fine of the other and if the baby dies, then the man that that hit the woman struck the woman also dies. That's one way of understanding the text the way of understanding the text is if something happens to the baby. Then there's a fine for that.

I believe the best case can be made to say that if the woman miscarry thing that is considered murder and is therefore life for life.

But there is dispute about the Hebrew text 866-34-TRUTH okay I wouldn't take some calls now listening on radio totally normal broadcast watch on Facebook you will hear sounds for a moment.

I'll fill you in on what the call is about animal, answer your questions 866-34-TRUTH over the Rhine in Miami, Florida hey mind, welcome to the line of fire. Dr. Brown, I have a question, because I hear a lot of you may try the undermanned undermine and be by saying that that the Torah must be kept in my vision. People good article Christianity paging by saying no.

Think back how can ending be written in Greek because they were Hebrew and different dance like that. I wanted to get your take on things because you not been airing it very often. Now you know about the Torquay. That incident, you should use distributional and things like Ryan's question your questions a few different things but some people say that all Christians must follow the Torah. Some say that you you cannot use the name Jesus. Some saying that the New Testament is we have is pagan and Christian as pagan cousins.

This was written in Greek. Okay number one the purpose of Messiah coming into the world was not just to save the Jewish people, but to save the world. God so loved the world in Greek was the language to communicate and if you wanted to reach the whole world.

So because of God's heart to reach the whole world and Messiah coming, not just for the Jewish people before the world the way to reach the whole world was by writing in Greek that some parts of the New Testament may originally have written been written in Hebrew, Aramaic. Certainly the sayings of Jesus in Aramaic and were Hebrew would have been passed on to others that spoke Aramaic crystal Hebrew or have it in writing. In that way, but the New Testament as written, was written in Greek, because God's heart was to reach the nations right that someone number two. From the first moment, God wanted to people to be able to relate to Jesus you chew it in their own language right so if if I'm talking to a Jewish person in America but Yeshua then little talking about. If I talk about Jesus then understand now I can clear their misconceptions about Jesus by saying he's Yeshua is a rabbi, etc. he's is Jew. He's the most influential Jew who ever lived its get away from their misconceptions really open up the truth of Scripture there okay so that's that's number one in terms of understanding who is related to Maria. So God wanted that to be the case when I go to Italy. The total budget sue if I talked about you sure that's a who's that Jesus if I'm in Latin America. Okay that's how they can relate to and understand that some Jesus is a Jew and so on we go from there right now as as far as the idea that Gentile Christians are obligated to to observe the Torah whole books of the New Testament addressing that misconception. Like the book of Galatians and unhook I'm quite aware. Trust me, I've been at this for decades. I'm quite aware that people try to bring arguments know that the Torah's obligatory rental. It simply does not work and I do not know. I do not know a single follower of Jesus on the planet today who was living by every word of the written Torah and if and those that say hair was the temple standards, we can go and offer sacrifices they have really missed a major point of fundamental part of our salvation in terms of why the Messiah came and died and why we don't need those blood sacrifices anymore. Yeshua does not abolish the Torah, but he fulfills it by fulfilling it. He makes many things that were once needed, not needed anymore because he has brought it to its full meaning not only so, with the New Testament is quite emphatic on this that it does not require Gentile Christians to observe all the Torah is emphatic on this very strong, very clear and those that put this emphasis in the wrong place and up often really in a deceived place in the deceived state and it's very unfortunate and in fact I will only get to a closer if you can stay there. I will get to call about why some actually embrace Judaism and reject Jesus. It's because they allow themselves to be deceived away from the fundamental route the substance of our life in God is found in the Messiah.

We become secondary to other things. You watch out backsliding said said will be right back over by the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown of your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown on the far I'm coming your way live from right outside of San Diego, one of the more beautiful parts of the country X much for joining us. 86634. Truth is a number to call. I want to answer a bunch of questions that were posted on Twitter and only don't take questions on social media during the show, but I open the door for this and we've we've got some really good questions here, so let's just see me looked down at a few questions that have come in in the last few minutes.

John asked if I ever read works from the Jewish Catholic apologist David Goldstein.

No, I haven't, but I'll have to have to look him up. What's my answer to those who deny the blood connection of the Ashkenazi Jews to the first century inhabitants of Israel. Just look at the best historical studies get online get past the myth of the conversion of the Cozaar is that that's really Ashkenazi come from the best studies and you will see that there is a strong case that can be made traces back Ashkenazi Jews back to the original Israelites. Obviously some intermarriage on the way these apparent people marrying into of the Jewish people dislike Ruth did in ancient Israel, also good strong arguments for I am 90% Ashkenazi, 10% Sephardi Jew� Look at some other questions here are some other Jewish questions posted on whether how I reconcile Paul, Galatians, other places seem to say that Christ fulfilled the promise to Abraham in the idea that Israel still has a special covenant on auto see any contradiction in any of his statements whatsoever. Not all Messiah is the promise deceived and Paul emphasizes that planning Galatians 3, but he also says that the law which comes after the promise cannot annul the promise and he makes clear in Romans the 11th chapter that the gifts and calling God a revocable, specifically with reference to God's promise to Israel so Messiah coming only confirms the fact that God will do the rest of what he promised.

I see no can no contradiction there whatsoever. Jonathan asked to explain what the Torah teaches about Original Sin.

According to the trial was the inherent nature of mankind were intrinsically evil. A Jewish understanding of this is that we are mixed that there was a fall and the fall did affect us another words that Adam was this glorious being in rabbinic tradition he could strike the earth in just a few strides in the growing communal with the brighter than the sun, being in and then just becomes a moral frail human being afterwards. That means subject to death and weakness, temptation, etc. as we are, but Jewish thought is, is that the results will be. Etc. October the it's a hurrah the good inclination and evil information to answer? Torah they would say it's found in Genesis the fourth chapter where we are after Adam Cain kills Abel and God system or is your brother and in the whole thing goes on and on our brother's keeper and and and their God says to him that sin is crouching at the door right that that you have been an impulse and inclination towards it, but you must overcome it so that would be the Jewish view that human beings are not entirely enslaved to sin needing a Redeemer. The way the gospel would teach. They are in a battle and they must overcome the good inclination must overcome the evil you need God's help and mercy to do it, and ultimately Redeemer and Savior as needed for the human race as a whole, but each individual Jew would salmon a daily battle, and I must work with God to overcome the evil inclination, then it's a funny Deuteronomy 30 recog is the tolerances hate here it is. It's it's for you to do is not hard. It's not accessible it's for you to do those of those would be the Jewish approaches as well. Bob wrote the Rabbi says if it was all right for Jesus to be generous that I'm fine with it to how to respond well to listen to Jesus. Assisi okay to listen to what had to say if if you respect him what he say the sound the way the truth and life. No one comes to the father but through me. Did he say I give my life as a ransom for many. Did he say before Abraham was, I am say on the good Shepherd sheep or my voice to say those things that are you following up and you believe in his death the city. He said he was in Alanna's life as a sacrifice.

Are you following rose from the dead. I mean otherwise than what is his example means you obviously a much 866-34-TRUTH. Again, if you're turning in on Facebook. We do not have our connection working properly. Somehow today we can hear the calls but as soon I'm done with the caller. I'll repeat the question so that you can all be appraised of it priced out. Let's go to Ogden, Utah. Sarah welcome to light a fire within your mind today you are at their great 100 and I came when I learned that taking Andy I went deeper and let me know. I never really now you deeper units.

I was able much deeper level. Eight ever been in any belt not I'm right or not Courtney yet now great and very legalistic and and now you looking to convert them and I understand how people can count from Christianity. Or if their event and projected altogether in straight and that yes� I'm sorry been through this and that's obviously a difficult time to your journey is an unusual you said that you found Christianity to be pagan.

So then you looked into Judaism and then when you really discovered who Yeshua was the Jewish Jesus, the Jewish issue of the Messiah, then really found him. He found grace there but you believe God wants you to observe the Torah and you can understand how someone else can go in the direction of completely rejecting Yeshua and then converted to Judaism. Here's what happens. People take their eyes off the Messiah and they put their eyes on tour you so I look at them as one of the same understand, but people take their eyes off the Messiah and they put them on Torah they put them on certain commandments. They put them on acts of obedience rather than relationship with God through faith which ushers interest acts of obedience and because of that that major on the Sabbath, rather than the goal of the Sabbath which is finding rest in the Messiah, they they major on outward things like dietary laws as opposed to sin and spiritual purpose of dietary laws because of which they fall away. Paul warns about installations to specifically telling Gentile Christians not to let anyone put them under pressure regarding Sabbath observance because that is just the that the shadow the substance is found in the Messiah, the body of it is found in the Messiah. So that's the critically important thing John 15th is to abide in the Messiah as we abide in him that we have an intimate relationship with God and bear fruit. As Paul writes to the Galatians that those who are led by the spirit under the law because they're now going to live out by the spirit. The righteous requirements of the law. You put the emphasis in the wrong place, it opens the door wide to backsliding. Unfortunately, so Sarah, let me just ask you this, when you say your your Torah observant of what you do with the commandments of the Torah that are that the Mississippi Temple was standing today would you go to would you want to go to Jerusalem to offer sacrifices and get out now. Right, and everyone enter my own grain rights is a current fluoride Zechariah 14. Speaking of a millennial kingdom speaks of future sacrifices, but certainly we can see clearly.

We don't need blood sacrifices now to be right with God is his will is cleansed us once wrote the rest in a race that is to say that when Jesus came he fulfilled the Torah and the ball should be the fulfillment because of that, many of the things that that were important. Then he brought to their fullest.

And we don't need a physical temple don't leader the high priest we are part of the spiritual temple. We have a heavenly high priest. We don't need the blood sacrifices they been sacrifice once for all terms of the blood of the cross and because of that, because of that we we now relate to things differently. So I just encourage you focus on larger pictures and not to write off all of Christianity's quote pagan. Perhaps some of the things that you were taught were little exaggerated and Sarah want to stay there and I want to send you a free book. It's called 60 questions Christians ask about Jewish beliefs and practices. I have a whole section there about Christians and the law 60 questions Christians estimate usually some practice I want to send you that as gift 866-34-TRUTH so Howard Camp you can get on with Sarah and get her info so we can send that out to her a let's go to George and Duncanville, Texas.

Welcome to light a fire, Michael arachidonic apartment or a question where you owe my color was basically nowhere were to select about two men fighting. I would believe that to be that the woman gives birth prematurely put more consistent with the rest of Scripture.

Right right but it exactly. So my question is heard quite a few people now say that the Jesus is basically Messiah for the Gentiles but not of the Jews and to be heard say that Jesus is the Messiah for the Gentiles, not for the Jews done a facility that yes of course I interacted with John Higbee about that and he told me to my face the Jews the Jesus to be saved, so I don't unload to make of those other comments. Certainly if that's his position, then that's a heretical position but when he put a book out that said that I was involved with people make corrections in the book and he'd solicit what he had meant to communicate, etc. but interest in short, in short, if Jesus is not the Messiah for the Jews is nobody's Messiah. In other words, did he die for sins are not. If he die for our sins. Then the whole world has blue did he rise from the dead.

If if he didn't offer a sense of he did rise from the dead is nobody's using the little he just did that for the Gentiles usually have their own covenant. Regardless of what he said. He said he came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

First and foremost Matthews as he came to save people from their sins. He came to be fulfilling what was written, Moses and the prophets. So if he fulfilled what was written, Moses and the prophets, then in fact the New Testament is reliable and he is the Messiah of Israel and the Savior of the world if he did not fulfill what was written.

Moses and the prophets. If he didn't die for our sins. If he didn't rise from the dead. The new covenant.

The New Testament is not reliable which case is nobody's Messiah diligently is is an impossible suggestion either. He's the Messiah of Israel, the Savior of the world that the Messiah visually disabled.

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It's the light a fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

No, thanks for joining us on thoroughly Jewish theirs is underway live from right outside San Diego doing a conference with some of the speakers this weekend in Santee, California about Jewish evangelism and the message of tomorrow night. I gobbling the speak about why God's word says to the Jew first, let me read some interesting traditions to you Jewish traditions about the suffering Messiah about this.

This is this is in an ancient midrash so this is homiletical, it's not legal authority to but homiletical comment, but some of the rabbis hundreds of years ago it. Speaking of one of the houses in the heavenly paradise there. Sit Messiah, Ben David, the Messiah, son of David, and Elijah and Messiah been a prime Messiah sent Joseph a suffering Messiah. There is a canopy of incense trees is in the sanctuary, which Moses made the desert and all its vessels and colors of silver it's covering is golden seat is purple and in it is Messiah been David who loves Jerusalem a Lodge of blessed memory takes hold of his head placed in his lap and holds says to them endure the sufferings and the sentence your master who makes you suffer because the sin of Israel. This is written, he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities, and come so here is a picture in rabbinic literature sunny primary text. It's it's not one of the most important rabbinic techs but it isn't a text from the mainstream of rabbinic Judaism in the past right and it talks about in this heavenly paradise where Messiah son of David is waiting and Messiah son of David is suffering because the sins of his people there with this is constant intercession and identification that he has that he carries. This is every Monday and Thursday and every Sabbath and holiday the followers fathers of the world.

Speaking of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and Moses and Aaron, David, Solomon and the prophets of the past come and visit him and weep with him and he weeps with them and they giving thanks consider them endure the sense of your master for the end is near to come in the changer on your neck that on your neck will be broken and you will go into freedom is.

Isn't that fascinating.

So the Messiah even in these Jewish texts not on earth but in heaven is suffering for the sins of his people. Here is another text from the Zohar Jewish mysticism and the hour which they speak of the souls of the righteous offers. Tell the Messiah about the sufferings of Israel exile and about the sinful among them who seek not the knowledge of their master. The Messiah lips of his voice and weeps over the sinful. Among them, this is what is written, he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities again. Referring to Isaiah 53 and then how about this, by the way have all these in volume 2 of answering Jewish objections to Jesus or in shorter form in the real culture Jesus as well.

Let me go to techs from what's called Pacific that robots eat. This is maybe seventh eighth century of this era and it speaks it speaks of the Messiah using verses from Psalm 22 all right and and it speaks of him carrying our sin carrying our pain in heaven. It's it's really quite remarkable and we just see here Taylor limit the meat ritual rough ALPA ties says a great Jewish anthropologist about the suffering text.

This is, there can be little doubt that psychologically the suffering Messiah for the projection and personification of suffering is similarly the leper Messiah and the beggar Messiah, which is spoken of in the Talmud orbit variance on the theme of suffering Israel personified in the suffering Messiah. Figure and it is undoubtedly true in the psychological sense, that is, the Zohar states the acceptance of Israel sufferings by the Messiah read that projection onto the Messiah eases that suffering which otherwise could not be endured so with the tie is saying is that psychologically it makes sense. The Jewish people in their suffering or seeing the Messiah suffer with them in projecting their sufferings on physical more than that the pure Jewish person. Listen carefully with these texts secure about community, maybe eighth ninth century of this error. So 1000 years old. Either way you're familiar with somebody's text why these many references to suffering Messiah. Could there be something about the Messiah coming first to suffer comparisons carrier paint dire place, the death of the righteous atoning for the sins of the generation and then and then coming at the end of the age could be one Messiah two phrases have never considered that as a traditional Jew, so look at this here procedure about the they said in the seven year period in which the son of David comes they will bring iron beams and put them upon his neck until his body bands a cross and weeps in his voice rises into the heights and he says before him master of the world. Much to my strength suffer. How much my spirit much my soul. How much my limbs in my netbook flesh and blood in that hour, the holy one, blessed be he says to them, for I am a true Messiah.

You have a ready except that the suffering from the six days of creation. Now your suffering shall be like my suffering.

This is God speaking to the Messiah in this midrash in this homily for ever since the day on which we could.

Nebuchadnezzar came up and destroyed my temple and brought my ciphers in 586 BC and I exiled my children among the nations of the world by your life and the life of your head.

I've not sat on my throne. If you do not believe see to do this upon my head so in this homiletical passage, God is telling Messiah set up with your called F. Ryan all right so identified with the Joseph Messiah, the suffering Messiah as well is telling them since the Temple was destroyed.

The first time I've not sat on my throne there was, I am identify with my people in their suffering and pain doesn't if you're traditional Jew listing does this give you a clue as to how we can relate to Jesus. Yeshua being the Messiah and that our before him master. He says the sizes master of the world. Now my mind is it rest for is sufficient for the servant to be like his master, fascinating tax no.

866342. We go to Jesse and Spicer, Minnesota.

Welcome to the line of fire dear Dr. Brown thank you like what you wanted all unit of the work that no longer male-female your Greek or career bond were all one in Christ. I was with genealogies and and your rate of this world system or what was Jesus Jewish Wendy was no direct was a male or female or neither after his resurrection, or are going fairly. Knowledge is identified as what he was going when there is no male or female ramp. Okay, so it's in other words, saying there is neither male or female gender gentle slave or free has nothing to do with this question of who we actually are and has to do with our our relationship to God. There is no caste system.

There is no class system. There is no one it's higher than the other or better in the other a Jew is better than a Gentile or males, but in the female or free has been slave no in the Messiah world one. But no, even in the book of Revelation. He still through the offspring of Jesse. He is still the lion of the tribe of Judah, so a still a male and a still Jewish now again ethnic. He transcends ethnicity and he transcends earthly gender extended but no heat. He remained to do the one who's coming back at the end of the age will be a glorified use requested. Yes, he remains a Jew, just as he remains male 866340 we go that Deborah must feel Michigan. Welcome to the line of fire. Hello yeah very well. Deborah God will go if you get right your question, go ahead. One quick one. And now I will start start with the first will go from there. Okay number one in the town bring about God are the people that we think that life will write you now know when and after due date. You are a private and in three days and clear. You are a brick and you will note early, but from a three-tiered perspective or from that perspective you living during the time of that writing at any so so Hosea 6 notice it doesn't say that that God will God will raise him up on the third day, but rather us. So a traditional Jew could say hey this is talking about. There is a period of suffering. There is a period of of smiting and then will be healed. So, for example, Rashi, the formless traditional Jewish commentator of your sorry, here's our interprets Hosea 6, let us return they will say the people say, let us return. He smites and he will bind us up so it is present tense and he re-smites us he will bind us up. He will revive us from the two days, so Rashi understands us to say he will strengthen us from the two retribution's which if passed over us. The two sanctuaries that were destroyed on the third day meeting with construction of the third temple he will set us up from the two days for the two times in the past over us on the third day. It's the third time so and, in other words, just as we take this out to to not to speak about us, but talking about the resurrection of the Messiah on the third day making application of the text, additional Jews make application of the text to save start out discussion a few temples and in the third temple timer for reviving a friends to the more you got questions God answers

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