When Christian Nationalism Merges with Antisemitism

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When Christian nationalism joins with antisemitism, it is a really toxic mix. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity.

Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, friends, to Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. Michael Brown, so pleased to have this time together with you, thinking a lot about Jerusalem these days, thinking a lot about Israel, thinking a lot about Jewish apologetics. I'll tell you why especially about the latter in a moment, but here's the number to call. Any Jewish-related question you have of any kind, 866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-8-7-8-8-4. The earlier you call on the show, the better chance we have of getting to your call.

So, any Jewish-related question of any kind, regardless of your own background or perspective, phone lines are open for you. Okay, we're going to talk about some pretty heavy and intense things today. We're going to look at some of the comments spoken by Andrew Torba, who is the CEO of Gab. This is the social media network that was raised up to compete with or replace Twitter for those that didn't like Twitter's anti-conservative stand, anti-Christian stand in certain ways, and one of the platforms where they would be able to speak freely and share their heart, share their mind. So, he's the CEO of that outspokenly Christian.

I've shared some comments that are very concerning. I want you to know that we reached out through the only public information we had to invite Andrew on the broadcast to do an interview with me. Andrew, if you do get to see this, I am a Jesus lover. I am a follower of Jesus, came to faith over 50 years ago.

He's my all-in-all, my everything. I am a Jew who follows Jesus, but my primary identity that is going to matter forever is that I am in him, in Christ. I love America, but I take strong exception to what you've said about, quote, Christian nationalism and the Jewish people, and I believe that you've been negatively influenced in certain ways and are perhaps reactionary. I gladly talk to you off the air, all right, but having waited some time, not having heard, then I posted an article where I just quoted you accurately and shared where I differed. I'm gonna do that today, so if you happen to be watching, listening, and you know Andrew or someone close to him, then by all means, connect us.

Can't hurt, all right? So we're gonna be talking about that. This has created a bit of a firestorm in the Jewish world. I'll give you background why. I want to talk about some of the Islamic reaction to the assassination and attempt on Salman Rushdie. For some of you, this is out of the blue, like who is this guy and why was he attacked?

For those who are older, you know there's more context and history to that, so we're going to talk about that. Let me tell you first, though, on a lighter note, why Jewish apologetics, especially on my mind last night. Well, on the one hand, last night I was watching a video by Rabbi Tovia Singer and thinking of putting out our video, because we have a series where we refute countermissionary rabbis starting with Rabbi Singer as the most vocal countermissionary rabbi online and the one who very explicitly goes out of his way to attack Christians and attack Christian beliefs and attack the New Testament started with a desire to get Jewish people to come back to tradition if they become believers in Jesus, etc., and then shifted at a certain point to much more overt attacks on Christians and going after gentile Christians and calling them to, quote, repent. So we've put out, I don't know, 11, 12 of those videos so far and right now getting them with Hebrew captions as well so they'll be able to be used more widely in Israel. So I was looking at one, we've got to do a few more, and looking at one last night thinking, ah, some of these statements are just outlandish.

We've got to rebut them. But on the lighter note, for a few years now there's a young man on Twitter, Adherent Apologetics, and he has this annual apologetics tournament. And in the tournament, I don't think, maybe started with 128, now I think it's up to 256, it's on the pattern of what's called March Madness, which is the NCAA basketball tournament. So you start with all these different teams and then you play each other and the numbers drop.

So you would go, for example, from 128 to 64 to 32 to 16 to 8 to 4 to 2. So when it first started, we were all having a lot of fun with it. That's when I got to meet Pastor Mike Winger. I wasn't familiar with his ministry before that.

He's gotten really prominent now on YouTube and he's got a lot of viral videos. So we were going back and forth. Our team was putting out graphics of like two of us looking like boxers as me and Robbie Zacharias and me and William Lane Craig and boxes bruised at battle. Just having fun with it. But the good thing was we were all getting to meet new apologists that we didn't know. And that was the whole goal, is to find out who's out there. So you vote who's your favorite apologist.

It's meaningless aside from having fun and getting to know each other. So somehow I made it to the finals. Mike Winger and I, we were putting out videos and I think I just edged him and made it to the finals where I lost to C.S. Lewis. I thought, that's legit. He's the most influential Christian apologist in the last century. That's legit.

He's probably influenced 100 million people or more. So all good with that. So and then did they have it two years ago, whatever it was, I got closer and then one of my close friends backed a closer friend of his and I thought, you betrayed me. We were having fun and I got pushed out. So anyway, turns out I'm back in the finals. Yeah, it's.

And as far as I know, out of whether it was 256 to start or 128, I'm not sure. But whatever the starting number was, I think I'm the only one in the whole group whose major emphasis is Jewish outreach. We do cultural apologetics. I've debated atheists, Muslims, different Muslims, but the primary emphasis we've been best known for in the past is Jewish apologetics. So I think I'm the only one. And this is a great way to help spread the word. I'm up against a classical theist.

I don't I don't know classical theist personally. I don't know that we've ever interacted or been on one of those broadcasts, but he's got a great support network on Twitter, even though I've got more Twitter followers. So he's leading me right now. Just the finals just started.

We had three days. He's leading me 66 percent to 34. He's got a healthy lead already here with the first 724 votes cast.

That's double the number that were cast for both of both of the previous rounds. So it's heating up. So if you have a Twitter account, this is the time to get behind your favorite messianic Jewish apologist. And in all seriousness, a great way to help get out the message of the importance of reaching Jewish people with the good news. So my Twitter handle is D R Michael L. Brown. Right. So the two L's D R Michael L. Brown.

So go there if you're on Twitter and share it with your friends. Tell them, hey, let's help push Dr. Brown over. And it's all in good fun. It's all in good fun.

In fact, we're going to lose. I'll have to have classical theist on my on my radio broadcast to talk more about the work that he is doing. Eight six six three four truth.

Okay. Jerusalem Post has this very interesting article. It was posted by Nicole Genessian on August 9th. Jerusalem Post article about Christian nationalists went viral, outpaced war coverage. Gab CEO Andrew Tarba drew negative press across media outlets, but doubled down on exclusive Christian politics. Quote, the only groups of people that are chosen are those that believe in Jesus Christ and call him king. And what he's made plain is he is a Christian nationalist. The movement that he is participating in is Christian nationalism. And that movement cannot have Jews in it, atheists in it, others in it. It is exclusively Christian and America is a Christian nation. And and in his view, Christians will take over. And by taking over through the elections, they will then impose their Christian values on the nation, which will then be for the good of the nation.

So everyone benefits. The only ones who can work together, the only ones who can be part of this are Christians. Do not work together with Jews. Don't work with a Ben Shapiro. Don't work with a Dennis Prager.

Don't work with any of these men. I'm filling in some of the names, some he's mentioned himself, because they are not Christians. This is exclusively Christian movement. And he's referred to Jews referenced scripture in past, Revelation 2, 9, 3, 9, you know, quote, synagogue of Satan, taking verses out of context and misusing them. So it's very disturbing. These are some of the standard anti-Semitic tropes and the 2 percent are ruling over the 98 percent and things like that.

Very dangerous. We've seen what's happened in past history. I've written about this, documented this for years.

So I'm going to read some quotes. But it's striking that in the midst of Israel under attack from Gaza and some of the conflict, thankfully, it did not last that long. And at this point, there's been relatively little bloodshed overall on all sides involved. But in the midst of a war in Israel, that this story got the most attention. It is because of the danger of this kind of Christian nationalism. It is because of the history of anti-Semitism in the name of Jesus that it gets this attention, even though the vast majority of Jewish people around the world and Christians around the world don't know who Andrew Torb is. He's got a strong platform to reach a good number of people. Hence, there is reason for concern. So here he's doubling down on some of his previous comments.

Let's listen to the first clip. This isn't a big tent. This is a Christian movement.

Full stop. So no, we don't want people who are atheists. We don't want people who are Jewish. So why is that difficult to understand? They are so mad that I said this, right? They're so mad that I said that we don't want people who aren't Christian in a Christian movement.

Like, why is that complicated? Why is that so controversial? All right, so Andrew, the reason it's controversial is you say a number of other things in your comments about the Jewish people. And when people are working together for the common good of a nation, when people share concerns about the direction of the nation, about the direction that the left is taking it, about attacks on some of our fundamental shared values, and they say, let's work together for the common good.

And you say no, because this is an exclusively Christian movement and America is a Christian nation, that is going to raise eyebrows for many, many reasons. All right, I've got a few more clips I want to play for you. Don't have time to play this next clip before the break. Phone lines are open again. I'll be getting to the calls in a little while.

866-348-7884. But, you know, just like in the black American community, with the death of George Floyd, it brought up a lot of memories of the past. Even if you say, well, statistically, that police brutality is very, very minor, and it's equally distributed, blacks, whites, Hispanics, et cetera, even if you made that statistical argument, the wounds are very deep. The history is very deep. The bad memories are very deep.

And some of them are very current. And therefore, you see something like that, and you say, this is very traumatizing to see this right in front of our eyes on a video. So, in a similar way, when a Jewish person hears certain things, I'm not comparing what Andrew Tarba said to what the policeman did, but when you hear these things, you say, reason for concern here.

We'll be right back. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. The sacred words that are chanted and sung daily in the religious Jewish community from Deuteronomy 6, Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord alone, followed by words that then fade it out, speaking blessing over the one, these words added by the later rabbis, whose glorious kingdom is forever and ever. Michael Brown, welcome to Thoroughly Jewish Thursday here on The Line of Fire.

866-348-7884 for your Jewish-related questions. All right, let's go back to a second clip from Andrew Tarba. So, he's playing words that he's previously said, the CEO of Gab.

He's playing words that he's previously said, and then he's reinforcing them. Let's listen. He's going to document this guy's own pronouncements on the threat of the Jews and on the Christian nationalist movement as represented by Canada. Yes, on the threat of people who are not Christian running and in power of a Christian country.

Yes, we are going to talk about this, whether they're Jew or atheist or pagan or anything else. We're going to continue talking about this because this is the United States of America, and we have the First Amendment, which allows us to talk about these things. Correct. This is the United States of America, not the Church of Jesus Christ.

Correct. We stand under the flag of the United States, not under the banner of Christ. Oh, individually, millions of Americans stand under the banner of Christ. My allegiance a million times more is to Jesus and the cross than to my nation, which I love and appreciate.

But the differences are vast, right? America is a fallen nation that needs the Lord with some powerful Christian roots, but explicitly established as a nation for all people, all right? And yes, to the extent that we have a Christian majority that lives Christian, not just Christian in name only, and votes Christian, then you'll have that vote, so be it. But this is a free country that was established by the Founding Fathers to be a free country, although with very strong Christian roots and much appreciation for even Biblical Hebrew roots among some of the Fathers.

Read what John Adams had to say, for example, about the Jewish civilization and its impact on the world. But this idea of two percent running the nation, that is typical anti-Semitic fear-mongering. And under the First Amendment, I can share that just as clearly as Andrew Torba shares it. We've been around this mountain before.

We know where this way of thinking goes. And even the idea of some Jewish cabal waiting to take over the world is, I'm not saying Andrew Torba holds that, I don't know if he's addressed that or not, but this is just part of the myth of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, part of the myth of anti-Semitic lore, another typical trope. So, a lot of this came to attention, people who had no idea who Andrew Torba was, but as a consultant for GOP gubernatorial candidate Doug Mastriano in Pennsylvania, who's been very openly Christian and very openly praying at his meetings and having prayer at the meetings and very clearly identifying his cause with the cause of Jesus, so he may be a fine Christian man, I would say you have to be careful how you merge things together politically lest you give the impression that we're going to take over the nation as Christians and impose Christian values and set up some kind of theocracy, which I absolutely oppose as a Jesus lover, as a Jesus follower, as a man of the word, and as a man who has some acquaintance with history. So, Doug Mastriano on his part has said this, that he rejects anti-Semitism and has sought to distance himself from the storm, Andrew Torba doesn't speak for me or my campaign, I reject anti-Semitism in any form.

So I'm glad to hear him say that. Let's listen to a more extended quote from Andrew Torba, I want to represent him fairly, I'm going to read some quotes at greater length in a moment, I want to represent him fairly. Again, Andrew, if you're watching this, you can either ignore it, if it gets to you, you can ignore it, you can interact with me privately, you can come on the show and have a discussion, we can set up some type of internet exchange, or you could blast me, obviously those are your choices, but I'd like to interact with you, I really would.

Alright, let's listen at greater length. Bud, this is a Christian nation. Christians outnumber you, by a lot, a lot. And we're not going to listen to 2%, you represent 2% of the country, okay?

We're not bending the knee to the 2% anymore. The 98% of the rest of us, you know, 70-75% of which are Christians, self-identifying Christians, we're not taking it anymore, Bud. We are taking back our culture, we're taking back our country, we're taking back our government, so deal with it.

You know, there's nothing you can do to stop us, because what has been set into motion, it's snowballing now, right? We have Marjorie Taylor Greene openly saying that she's a Christian nationalist, we have Matt Gaetz kind of flirting with it a little bit today with his tweet on Christian nationalism, you know, Paul Gosar. We have people in Congress right now, members of Congress right now, who are openly, openly saying that they're Christian nationalists. We have multiple candidates for governor who won their primaries in a landslide, are winning in the polling right now, and are going to win the governorships of multiple states who are Christian nationalists.

We have officials not only at the state level, not only at the federal level, but also at the local level. People who are running for school boards, Christian nationalists who are running for school boards, and by Christian nationalists, I mean like concerned Christian parents who are done, who are done, done with this, done, done being controlled and being told what we're allowed to do in our own country by a 2% minority or by people who hate our biblical worldview, hate our Christ, hate our Lord and Savior. Done. It's over. So you better deal with it. You can demonize me individually. You can try and attack me. But guess what? You know, I am just one of hundreds of millions of Christians in this country, bud. So guess what?

It's inevitable. Sorry. Right. And that's addressed towards a Jewish man.

That's really unfortunate. It's not a matter of demonizing Andrew. It's a matter of saying those are ugly words.

Some of them are demonic. The idea, for example, that we're not going to be controlled by the 2%. Oh, so Jews are controlling all of America. Got it. Name for me the last 10 Jewish presidents. Oh, hang on. The last five Jewish presidents.

Okay. How about one Jewish president? Oh, hang on. Hang on. Name for me the last 10, 5, 1 Jewish vice president.

Oh, okay. Name for me, percentage wise, how many Jews there are in Congress. Oh, they're more than 2%.

Yeah, but how many? Who's making the major votes, casting the major votes along the way? And on and on it goes. And the Jewish voices speaking up so loudly, like David Horowitz, trashing what the left is doing and exposing the darkness of the radical left. Or Ben Shapiro, a steady conservative voice. Or Dennis Prager, who believes that the greatest enemy in America right now is not the Democrat Party in general or liberalism in general.

He finds liberalism to have a lot of value in it. But the left, he feels everyone must stand together to unite against the left. And there are other voices and Jewish thinkers and conservative rabbis and others. I've interacted with orthodox and ultra-orthodox rabbis who say we've got to stand together against transgender activism and the insanity of where the left is going on various issues, et cetera. No, but with the anti-Semitic tropes, the Christians are fighting the 2%, the Jews. Oh, do most American Jews share the values of the left? Yes. Do Jews have great influence in, say, Southern Poverty Law Center and ACLU and these influential organizations?

Yes, definitely on the wrong side of these issues. Just as the majority of American Christians are not really looking for Jesus, when Andrew says there are hundreds of millions of us, hang on, the population of America right now is about 330 million, okay? And those professing to be Christian is now at 70%.

70%. So that puts that number of about 220 million professing to be Christian. So that's barely hundredths, plural. That's a little over 200. Out of that number, or half, truly following Jesus, living by the word of God, seeking to honor the Lord, maybe a quarter.

So the number of actual committed Jesus followers in America is much, much lower, all right? But you can't stop it. It's coming your way, taking over.

That's dangerous talk. I would love to see more Christians in politics. I would love to see more Godly people in our courts. I would love to see more Godly teachers, more Godly people on the school.

I'd love to see it. Jesus followers and sharing the good news and spreading the light. But this idea we're gonna take over and not be ruled by others and it's coming your way is dangerous rhetoric. Friends, there's a reason I wrote the political seduction of the church. There's a reason I have a whole chapter asking, is the church called to take over the society? There's a reason I have a whole chapter exposing the dangers of Christian nationalism, which is different than saying I love Jesus and I love my country and I'm concerned about the direction of my country as a Christian. They are very, very different from that. It is wrapping the gospel in the American flag.

It is Christianizing American, Americanizing Christianity as if it was one and the same. If you haven't ordered your book yet, do it. Go ahead, go to our website, askdartebrown.org and order today.

You say, how much do you make when you ordered the website? Zero, zero. It's about getting the book to you. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to Thoroughly Jewish Thursday on the Line of Fire. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. 866-34-TRUTH.

Go into the phones in a moment. So, Doug Mastriano, according to this account here in the Jerusalem Post, does not have an account now on Gab. It says, but a few days before the controversy erupted, Mastriano, who's a Christian, on Facebook linked to a video of a Messianic Jewish song in Hebrew with the message, Shabbat Shalom, one of the best worship songs in Israel. So obviously, this Christian man wants to distance himself from Andrew Torba's anti-Semitic comments because they do not represent who he is. So if you're in Pennsylvania, separate the comments of Andrew Torba about the Jewish people from the views of candidate Doug Mastriano. Just a couple more quotes from Andrew Torba.

This isn't a big tent. This is a Christian movement. So no, we don't want people who are atheists, don't want people who are Jewish. If you want to be part of a Christian movement, an explicitly Christian political, social, and cultural movement, then you must be a Christian. I don't understand what is so controversial about that statement.

There's nothing hateful about that statement. There's nothing controversial. Of course, it's controversial because you've made this into explicitly Christian. You're saying if you're voting for a particular candidate because you believe in a pro-life ethic, well, no, you're not part of this movement unless you're Christian. So if you're, even if you're an atheist with a pro-life ethic, or an atheist is pro-Israel, no, no, you're not part of this.

Of course, we're all part of the same thing when it comes to voting because voting is a political act. It is a cultural act. It may be based on religious values, but it's not something you do in a church. You do it in a voting booth because it is a secular act. You could do it in the name of Jesus. You could do it in the name of Allah.

You could do it in no name, but either way, the vote is just a secular vote and people are voting together for a candidate or voting against a candidate. He said this about the Jewish people, their holy book is the Talmud, not the Old Testament, it's not the Torah. We don't have a shared value system. Abortion and baby murder is a Jewish value. Well, this is not a Christian value. This is why we can't have a Judeo-Christian movement. Those two worldviews, those two theological moral frameworks are in direct conflict.

The only groups of people that are chosen are those that believe in Jesus Christ and call him king. They are the chosen seed of Israel. Ben-Shapiro is not welcome in the movement unless he repents and accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. Even to say that the Old Testament is not holy book to the Jewish people or the Torah is not holy book. The Torah is the foundation of everything.

Yes, the Talmud is the lens through which everything is seen. And by the way, religious Jews are very strongly against abortion except in the earliest stages. They have joined together with Christians in pro-life work over the years just to set the record straight. All right, let's go to the phones we'll start with Deborah in Maple Grove, Minnesota. Welcome to the Line of Fire.

Hi Dr. Brown. I just want to tell you thank you for the show. I didn't know anything about this. I guess I've never really heard of Christian nationalism or knew what that term meant, and I've never heard this man, Andrew, and I just think it's so important what you're saying, bringing this to our attention. My hope and prayer is that he will respond to you.

It kind of sounds like he's just uneducated. I think your role is so important. You're bringing things to light and helping people see things that, you know, because at just a glance it might sound good, hey, Christian nation, let's get back to it. Especially, you know, we tend to go from one ditch to another, you know, we see our nation going down the tube, so somebody's saying, Christian nation, yeah, okay, let's do it, without knowing all the facts and figures here, and you're bringing really, really important information to light. So I just want to encourage you, I want to thank you for this, and I hope he'll respond to you, because I think educating him and other people who are following him, helping them see the bigger picture here and understand it's really important, so thank you so much.

Yeah, you're welcome, Deborah, and there are definitely some prominent anti-Semites who are having a negative impact on Gab, which I know from one of my colleagues, who really thinks that Andrew is sincere and who really wants us to try to help him, so my speaking about this publicly is, if you're not hearing anything back, the one means that we had to reach him, just like the general public would or the general media would, so my goal is to help. However, if these are his deeply held views, then I must expose them, must rebuke them as being erroneous, and this is one, as one who, for many, many years, has promoted a gospel-based moral and cultural revolution. In other words, that we as followers of Jesus change so radically that we have a radical impact on the society around us for good by people coming to faith and having hearts and minds changed. Now, that can only be done in the power of the Spirit, but the larger culture wars we're fighting or the larger political battle, that involves a whole lot of people, people who like faith and people not of like faith, and we join together for the common good, just like if there was some natural disaster and there was a mudslide and people trapped in the mud and you're going to pull people out before they die, you're not saying, well, you're a Christian because you're not a Christian. I'm not working with you to pull that person out of the mud.

That's how I look at so much in America. Yes, the gospel must come first. That's our ultimate solution, so that's what we lead with, but when we work in the political and the cultural world, we work together for common good. Hey, thank you, Deborah, for the call and the words of encouragement, and by all means, let's pray for Andrew rather than curse him and push him away. Let's pray for him. All right, let us go to Carl in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Brown. Can you hear me okay?

Yes, I can. I appreciate you. I've been listening to you now practically every day or during the week for about a year.

So, I really appreciate you. So, recently our pastor preached a sermon, and he used a short verse, a portion of a verse from Jeremiah 31.3 about God's everlasting love and drawing us with loving kindness, and he was criticized by one of the congregants who's kind of a scholarly apologist-type guy, saying that, you know, you can't take scriptures like that out of context because they're spoken to the nation of Israel specifically, and it's not right for us to appropriate them for ourselves. Well, my son-in-law related this to me, and I responded to him saying, if those scriptures reflect the general character of God, which I believe Isaiah or Jeremiah 31.3 does, it's fair enough for us to be able to take those as something that we can appropriate for ourselves. You know, I hear a lot of this, you know, they can't use Old Testament scriptures because they're the context and such.

Some people want to just throw out the Old Testament entirely. Yep. What's your thoughts on this, and did I respond, was my response okay to him?

Yes. Number one, your response in itself was quite accurate and no one can argue with that theologically. In other words, if there's a verse about God's goodness to Israel, and it reminds us of God's nature being good, then how can we possibly be misapplying that if we draw from that that God is a good God?

So you're absolutely right, but we can go further than that. Romans 15, 4, Paul said, for whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction... Looks like we lost the connection, but I guess Carl just keep listening on our great radio station in Des Moines, in Idaho. So, for whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction that through endurance and through the encouragement of the scriptures we might have hope.

Alright? So, let me read this again. For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction that through endurance and through the encouragement of the scriptures we might have hope. We can also point to 1 Corinthians 10, 1 through 11, that speaks of God's judgments on ancient Israel and says these are warnings for us. We can point to 2 Timothy 3, 16 and 17, where he says all scripture is given by inspiration of God, as God breathed, and is for our edification and growth and for the man of God in ministry, so this is for... and he's talking then about the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament, that was the scripture of the day that he was referencing, so the whole Bible belongs to every follower of Jesus. We just have to rightly apply it.

Think of it like this. I'm reading 1 Corinthians. Who was that written to? To the Corinthians. It is specific context with a certain history behind it, but can I read that and now make direct application to my own life?

Of course! So when we... we just want to do things rightly. We don't want to take something that, say, God tells Joshua, wherever you put your feet down, I'm going to give you that land, and say, you know, I like my neighbor's property, so I'm going to walk on my neighbor's property and that'll become my land.

Obviously, that's a misapplication and a misappropriation. Many Christians will quote from... from Jeremiah 29 and 11, where God says that I have good plans for you, plans to give you wholeness and peace, et cetera, and, you know, I want to do good for you. He said, well, that was a promise to the exiles that were going to be restored. They're going to go into exile, but they're going to be restored.

True! But can the Holy Spirit speak that to us as applicable as God's children? Can something that was specifically spoken through Jeremiah to Israel that I've loved you with an everlasting love?

Well, how much more God's love for his bride through the cross. So, as long as we don't misappropriate, of course we can make spiritual application. Look, Isaiah 54, 17, call kleutzarlach lo'yitzlach, no weapon formed against you will succeed. That was a promise to Jerusalem after the work of the suffering servant and a promise to rejoice in the future when God would restore and bless Jerusalem. But it goes on to say, this is the inheritance of the servants of the Lord and their vindication, their righteousness is for me.

So, we can say in that same spirit as God's righteous people, no weapon formed against us will succeed. The biggest thing is don't steal it from Israel, which of course is the opposite of what you'd be saying. Don't steal it from Israel. So, the church has done that.

It's made itself the spiritual Israel and the promises that God gave physical Israel is saying, oh, those are now ours and they don't apply to physical Israel. Don't steal. I have a chapter in Our Hands Are Stained with Blood saying thou shalt not steal. So, don't steal the promises, but appropriate them with proper contextual exegesis and then make spiritual application? Of course. Let's just know what we're doing and do it right.

The whole Bible is for us in that regard. Okay, talk about Salman Rushdie, get your calls when we come back. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. All right, just think of it. Come on, think of being in Israel together. It's a messianic Jewish worship. Think of being in the land where we're saying, hey, this is where this happened 2,000 years ago, 3,000 years ago. Oh, and this is where it's going to happen when the Lord returns and this is where Yeshua taught over here and yet out in the Sea of Galilee as we're worshiping the Lord together, yet this is where Jesus was, same sea with his disciples. Think of being part of that.

Isn't that amazing? So, if you're able to join us, it's a trip of a lifetime. Go to the website, askdrbrown.org. Our number of people that we're bringing with us is limited. So, go there today if you're thinking of coming. It's May 2023.

All the details on the website, askdrbrown.org. You'll see his first or second slide that comes up on the website. Okay, so Salman Rushdie, born in India but lived in Europe or America over the years and in the 80s he put out a book called Satanic Verses and it was about Muhammad and there were two verses in the Quran where Muhammad seems to point to worshiping other deities and then later it's revealed to him that he was inspired by Satan to speak those things. He thought it was Allah but it was actually Satan, obviously a scandalous concept if you're a Muslim. And when Salman...