The following program is recorded content created by Truth Network. Fire, it is absolutely great to be with you. It's got to get my volume controls up here a little bit. Wonderful to be back in the studio after having a quarantine for a few days with a minor bout of covid.
But great to be back with you face to face. So to say here is the number to call any question of any kind that relates in any way to any topic we talk about on the broadcast here. Anything I ever write about, anything a guest has talked about. So you name it, we can talk about it. Eight, six, six, three, four, truth. Eight, six, six, three, four, eight, seven, eight, eight, four is the number to call.
So let us start in central New York. Steven, you are on the line of fire. Thanks for calling. You're welcome.
It's great to talk to you again, Dr. Brown. I just had to have a question. I was wondering if you could shed some light on a difficult passage of scripture that being First Kings 13 verses 11 through 24, it seems as though the young prophet was clearly deceived by the older prophet. We don't know why the older prophet did what he did, but the punishment that the young prophet received from God, it seems very harsh to me. Just wondering what you had to say about it.
Right. It is a very interesting passage of scripture. So first, the Bible is recording what happened. It's not making a moral judgment on what happened.
It's recording what happened. And there are certain lessons we can learn from it. But for those not familiar, there's a younger prophet who sent to bring a message to Jeroboam, the king of Israel, and he gives him a prophecy about judgment that's going to come on him and how God is going to raise up a man named Josiah, of course, this is centuries later, who will execute some of this judgment. And God tells him, gives him a specific word that he's to to go one way is to come back that way is not to stop, eat, anything like that. And then an older prophet hears what happened and recognizes this was a true word from the Lord.
But then tells the guy, stop, eat with me. I'm a prophet, too. God told me you could do it. And then, of course, when the young man does it, there's judgment that's pronounced on him for violating the word of the Lord and he he dies. So what the motivations of the older prophet are, are more mysterious. How devious was it?
How how much was he just used to test this man? Those are questions that can be asked. But the clear lesson for millions of readers over the generations, the clear lesson is very simple. When God gives you an explicit direct command that he's not going to send someone with a different explicit command to you that countermands that. For example, if God speaks in the Ten Commandments, do not steal or do not murder or do not commit adultery, and then someone else comes and says, well, the Lord told me that you can murder or commit adultery or steal. Then we reject that word.
It's the same with Balaam. When when he asked God, should I go curse Israel? God gives him a threefold answer in Numbers 22.
Don't go. Don't curse them because they're blessed. So he tells the messenger, sorry, I can't do it. And then Balaam King of Moab sends further envoys, offering him even more money. He says, look, I can only do what God says. I'll ask him again.
You don't ask again when you have an explicit, definite word from the Lord. So it's a painful lesson. But in that setting, it was a lesson that had to be learned. It doesn't speak of that young prophet's eternal fate, but it's a very loud lesson for all of us to learn. So a disturbing passage, but one with a very strong moral lesson, nonetheless.
OK, thank you. Yeah, and remember, what is what is in scripture today is there not just for the people in Bible times, but for all of us who would read these accounts in the centuries that followed. So certain things did happen that were somewhat extreme. But there is a lesson now that's learned for everybody in subsequent generations, millions and millions of people. So a lesson worth learning, eight, six, six, three, four, eight, seven, eight, eight, four. Let's go to David in Zebulun, North Carolina.
Welcome to the line of fire. Hey, how are you doing? Doing well, thanks.
Thanks. I had a question about the passage in Genesis, I don't have the address right in front of me, but where Isaac is giving his blessing to Esau after Jacob tricked him. And I was in a Bible study and it looked like that the King James Version was very different like the ESV and other versions we were looking at.
So I don't know if you can read that. Yes, there's Genesis 27. Do you remember what in particular, what verse was different?
Yeah, it was where he was saying you're going to be you're going to dwell away from the land or something like that. All right. OK, right.
So so the the Hebrew there could be translated a couple of different ways. And and that's that's where the debate would be. It's it's overall a excuse me, I just typed in the wrong entry here. It's overall a minor difference, but just going to skip down to the end of Genesis 27, where where this takes place.
It's a very dramatic, emotional account here. OK, let's just see. Right. So he gives Jacob the blessing. Then Esau comes in. I'm your firstborn. The whole drama unfolds. Bless me, too.
What else can I say? So Isaac then gives him this blessing. See, your abode shall enjoy the fat of the earth and the dew of heaven above. Yet by your sword you shall live and you shall serve your brother.
But when you grow restive, you shall break his yoke from your neck. OK, are you sure that it was in this passage that the difference was found as as a as opposed to the word over your thinking specifically of the word over Esau, because there's elsewhere with Ishmael where there are related prophecies about him and will he go against his brethren or next to will it be hostile or not? So you're sure that it was this account that you were looking at?
Yes. He said Genesis 27, right? Yeah, that's the passage. And what was the verse? So I'm going to read to you the blessing over Jacob and then the blessing over Esau. May God give you of the dew of heaven and the fat of the earth, abundance of new grain and wine, let people serve you and nations bow to you.
Be master over your brothers and let your mother's sons bow to you. Curse be those who curse you and bless they who bless you. OK, so that's Isaac's blessing over Jacob. And then when Esau asked for the blessing, so now the verses that follow Esau finds out what happens, weeps over that. Don't you have any blessing yet for you? Verse thirty seven, Isaac answered Saint Esau, but I've made him master of you. I've given him all his brothers for servants to sustain him with grain and wine. What then can I still do for you, my son?
Don't you have any blessing left? So read it again. See, your abode shall enjoy the fat of the earth and the dew of heaven above, yet by your sword you shall live and you shall serve your brother.
But when you grow restive, you shall break his yoke from your neck. So those are the words. Again, we could go there.
Yeah, go ahead. I was just saying, in the ESV it says, behold, away from the fatness of the earth shall your dwelling be, and away from the dew of the heaven on high. Got it. OK, so when you'd mentioned brothers, that's the thing that it confused me because that's that's with Ishmael earlier on.
That's why I was looking, trying to sort that out. Right. So the the Hebrew here, the the preposition mem is used, which can mean from so derived from or away from. And that's that's why you have the difference. So the New Jewish Publication Society see your abode shall enjoy the fat of the earth, meaning that that you will be sustained by the fat of the earth. And that would be it's a positive statement that's being made.
It's a blessing that's being spoken over him. But you can also take the mem as away from separated from which would make less sense here. So that that's why the difference glad we sorted that out, took a little while to to figure out where we were there. Right.
So in verse thirty nine, he named Mishma Neha Arets. So, yeah, so it is from the fat of the land will will will be your abode. So you will enjoy it. You will benefit from it as opposed to you're not going to say that in a blessing over him, that you'll be separated from the fat of the land.
Rather, you will you will be enriched by the fat of the land. All right. OK, that makes sense. Yep. Good. All right.
Glad we sorted that out. Takes a little while to get there. Eight, six, six, three, four, eight, seven, eight, eight, four. Let us go over to Joseph in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi there, Dr. Brown, good afternoon.
Good afternoon. I have a question regarding the book of Hebrews and I'm trying to say I believe it was. Yes, it was chapter nine. It basically says that Jesus is high priest offered his own blood for atonement and the holy of holies in heaven, my question is, did he offer his blood before or after his resurrection? Right. It's a great question. And the Bible does not tell us explicitly, in other words, does he ascend to heaven before he physically rises from the dead and cleanse the heavenlies and prepare the way?
Right. And then so this is part of what he's doing during the three days. So he descends into the netherworld. He declares his victory over hell and death.
He seals the fate of the ungodly and the rebels. He then ascends to heaven, cleanse, cleanses the heavenlies and then returns to earth, as people would say, picks up his body, meets with his disciples all those days and then ascends. Or does he do the cleansing of the heavens afterwards? Logic would say, since he rises from the dead but then spends 40 days on the earth with his disciples, that logic would say that he ascended to heaven spiritually before that, because otherwise, from the time of his death on the cross until his ascension to heaven is 40 days. So that would mean that he didn't do that heavenly cleansing for 40 days.
So even though it doesn't say it explicitly, the logic would be that he ascends to heaven and does it before his resurrection, which then is 40 days after the resurrection before he ascends to heaven bodily. Hey, thank you for the call. We've got some phone lines open. Eight, six, six, three, four, three. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, get on the line of fire by calling eight, six, six, three, four, truth here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome. Welcome to the line of fire. Have you signed up for Israel trip yet?
No. Planning on going want to go. Don't know about it. Go to the website.
Ask Dr. Brown, askdrbrown.org. You'll see it right on the home page. But the first slide is talking about the new book, The Political Seduction of the Church, which you can now preorder a signed numbered copy due out early September and then second slide that should come up will be about the Israel trip. It really is the trip of a lifetime. This time you get to book your own airfare.
You figure out how you want to travel, what airlines going to work best, what fare you want if you go expensive fare, the cheapest fare you can get. We just tell you when you need to arrive. And we have our first meeting at the hotel.
So this way this way you can have more flexibility there. And of course, we've got all the transportation arranged within Israel. Then five star hotels when we're there. It's just it's going to be an amazing, amazing trip. So looking forward to it. Ask Dr. Brown dot org and seating is this is not a way of selling a trip.
It is limited because we can only bring a certain number of people with us on the tour. So can't wait to see you, God willing, next year in Jerusalem. OK, let us go over to Father Chris in Minnesota. Welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr. Brown, I saw a tweet about this opportunity questions today. Now I'm hearing as if you're on a radio show.
So I would like to know how to listen to that. But my actual question was about the Jewish faith and it has two components. The first is more personal to you. But I was curious in modern day Jewish faith. The different the reforms Jewish people and for example, the conservative and then the Orthodox. And then the question I had you was been studying about you coming from the Jewish faith.
What was your background? And just for fun, do you by chance to know if you have any priestly lines? That's my question. Yeah, sure.
Well, the last one is easy to answer. According to everything we know, no, no, no priestly heritage that's been passed on to the family, not not a hint of it, not a trace of it to our to our knowledge. As for how to listen, unless you have a local radio station that carries the show, the easiest thing to do is just go to our website. AskDrBrown.org and you can you can watch live. You can actually see my smiling face because we do a live stream on YouTube and on Facebook. And then there are any number of other ways to listen once the show is over. But AskDrBrown.org, AskDrBrown.org or just Ask Dr. Brown on Facebook or YouTube, we do a live stream of the broadcast every day.
So we do live radio, we do live stream on video, and then people listen afterwards on podcast and various other means. OK, so the three major branches of Judaism are Orthodox, conservative reform and Orthodox is is one that takes the scriptures as God's word, so the Hebrew Bible is God's word, believes in the authority of Jewish tradition and seeks to live those things out so Orthodox Jews will also be called traditional Jews or rabbinic Jews. They are strictly keeping the Sabbath.
They are carefully observing the dietary laws. The Jewish men are praying three times daily, et cetera. They would be looked at if you want to look at the equivalent on the Christian end as strongly conservative Christians.
In other words, that we would share a lot of same moral values, a lot of same beliefs about devotion to God and the importance of following his ways and believing if the scriptures say certain things as truth, then they are truth or reform. Judaism grew up over 200 years ago, beginning in Germany with the goal of reforming Judaism and moving it away from what were considered to be antiquated viewpoints. Now we know better. We know that Moses didn't really write the Pentateuch. Now we know better about other parts of the Bible, that they didn't really happen the way we were told they happen. The idea of Israel being a chosen nation is overly exclusivistic. That the dietary laws, those are primitive. The idea of having a temple with sacrifices is outdated.
We should call our own buildings, temples and things like that. So it broke away very radically in the earliest days of Reform Judaism. It almost flaunted itself and would even have Sunday services and added music in because music was not you would have chanting, you have no musical instruments in the synagogue and things like that.
So it broke away in many radical ways. And to this day, Reform Jews are very liberal. So they would make up the largest percentage of Jews in America.
But through assimilation, the numbers are going in the wrong direction, whereas Orthodox Jews are growing quite rapidly because of high birth rates and people looking for a deeper spiritual commitment. A Reform Jews would be leading the way, just like liberal Christians or left wing Christians on issues like abortion, they'd be strongly pro abortion. They'd be strongly pro redefining marriage, same sex quote marriage. They would be on the opposite end of many of the key issues, say, to evangelical Christians in America. Reform Jews would be on the other end of that.
You could have a lot of people coming to the high holiday services several times a year, but you're not going to have a lot of people week to week strictly observing the Sabbath, living by the dietary laws and things like that. A conservative Judaism began a little over 100 years ago as a reaction against Reform Judaism. But these were Jews who intellectually could no longer be traditional. They could no longer say that God dictated the Pentateuch to Moses. They could no longer accept some of the authority of the rabbinic traditions. But they knew that it was important to conserve tradition. So conservative Judaism does not mean conservative the way you'd say.
I'm a conservative Republican or I'm a conservative evangelical or something like that. It means conserving the traditions. And conservative Judaism continues to be on the decrease in America. It used to be higher than Reform. Now it's been lower for some years and it's actually gotten closer to Reform Judaism rather than getting closer to tradition.
It's gone further left. I was raised in a conservative Jewish home. And, Chris, what that meant for me was that several times a year we would go to the High Holy Day services at Hanukkah, we would light candles in the home. But we did not observe the Sabbath.
We did not keep the dietary laws. I was bar mitzvahed at the age of 13, but I learned to chant a portion of scripture in Hebrew. I didn't even know what I was saying, and it didn't dawn on me to ask what the words meant, and it didn't dawn on the rabbi to say to me, OK, Michael, I want you to study this in English because this is what you're going to be chanting in Hebrew. So it was much more of a religious ritual.
My bar mitzvah was more of a social event than a spiritual event. So I was raised in a very wishy washy form of Judaism that I thought was what Judaism was until I met Orthodox, really ultra-Orthodox Jews. So the ultra-Orthodox would be the most traditional. They would be on the right wing of Orthodoxy. On the left wing of Orthodoxy is what's called Modern Orthodox. So that would be someone like Ben Shapiro would probably be the best known example of Modern Orthodoxy in America today.
I wrote a book called 60 Questions Christians Ask About Jewish Beliefs and Practices, and I cover a lot of that information in that book. So I hope that's helpful for you. It really was.
I tell you what, that was excellent. And then as a Jewish person by birth, which is more than just a religion, it's also a people, and then now as a Christian. You could see yourself as one of the original audience members that Jesus was talking to that. Yes, all of his first followers were Jewish and remained Jewish. And the term Christian in the early church had a very different meaning than over the centuries. In other words, it was not a member of a different religion. There was no such religion as, quote, Christianity.
But that being said, it was someone who was a follower of this one, Christos, and it was probably a derogatory name, like if someone listened to my show calling them a Brownie or a Brownite, it was it was derogatory to call them, quote, a Christian. So that's why, depending on what setting you're in, if you say you're a Christian to a Jewish person, it would mean, oh, you're no longer Jewish, which is why we often identify as messianic Jews or as Jewish followers of Jesus. By the way, just to flesh this out a little bit more, Orthodox Jews are confessing daily their belief in the coming of Messiah. And and this is a central tenet of the faith that God will send the Messiah. Whereas a Reform Jew is not looking for a Messiah, but for a messianic age brought about by human goodness, by a better era on the earth, by human beings improving themselves. Reform Jews would not have as part of their belief a conviction that there is a life after death and be looking forward to a future resurrection. Individuals may hold to that, but that is not foundational among Reform Jews, so that if you're at a Reform Jewish excuse me, a ceremony, memorial service or something like that, funeral service, it would be grieving over the dead that are lost and they're gone, as opposed to a strong confidence of we'll be together again in the world to come.
And we will see our loved ones again as you get at a Christian funeral. Hey, thank you for the question. Much appreciated. 866-348-7884 is the number to come. And remember, when you're on my website, if you don't get our emails, I just got a really informative email from our ministry a few minutes ago.
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Sign up for the emails today. You don't want to be uninformed. We've got great stuff for you and help you. All right.
Be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, get on the line of fire by calling 866-344. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire. You've got questions. We've got answers.
Phone lines are wide open. 866-348-7884. If we don't have the answer, we'll do our best to get it for you.
All right. Let us go back to the phone, starting with Amy in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you, Dr. Brown. It's such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for how you serve so faithfully.
My joy. I have a question on a verse that I've been studying. Mark 13, 33. And the King James Version, which I'm not just, you know, I use all different translations to study. So the King James Version translates it as take ye heed, watch and pray for ye know not when the time is. But other translations, including Tree of Life and CSB translate it, watch, be alert for you don't know when the time is coming. So I'm curious about the translation, some translations removing pray, or how does that work between King James and other translations?
One has pray and one does not. Right. So when you have an issue like this and let me just get up some other translations here, if you have just a translation issue, in other words, how do I translate this verse that could I could do it this way, this way.
But you have the same Greek in front of you. That's one issue. Right. And you can only tell, OK, it could go this way.
You know, stay awake, be alert, don't go to sleep. You know, those could all be translated in the same thing. Right. But when you have something where it's clearly a different word that's being used, then you have to ask why that that is. And generally, like you may have King James mentioned prayer and fasting and other other translations just mentioned prayer, something like that. What it normally is, is that the King James translators were using one Greek text and the other translators are using another Greek text. These texts are almost identical in verse after verse, word after word after word.
But there are some differences, some minor discrepancies here and there. So the King James would be using the text that's called the majority text. So the largest body of evidence would say this is how it reads. And other translations would be using what we consider to be the oldest and the best manuscripts, even if they were in the minority. So the majority of translations today follow what are considered to be the best text. And the King James would follow what would be called the majority text. And so if you're looking, for example, oh, let's just see here.
Right. You'll find the ASV, which is based on the same manuscripts. Take ye heed, watch and pray. You'll find the New King James, which is following this as well, will have it the same way. So New King James will be a take heed, watch and pray. The MEV, the modern English version, which is based on the same Greek manuscripts, will say watch and pray.
All the others won't have and pray. So when you see the King James has it one way and the others have it a different way, then you know the New King James is going to agree with the King James. You know that the MEV is going to agree with the King James because they're using the same Greek manuscript.
And the argument would be that watch and pray. The words and pray were added in unconsciously by a scribe familiar with that or thinking of the Garden of Gethsemanes, you know, watch and pray, etc. And then others would say, no, those are the original words. And they got taken out by later scribes that was in omission. But it's just it's two different Greek texts. And you have it, like I said, for a number of passages.
Overall, the differences are super minor, but there are differences. Okay. I appreciate.
I had no idea there were two different Greek texts. I'm not that far into my the Bible school. Got it. Got it.
Yeah. The thing is, though, rather than looking at it as a confusing negative or getting into a battle, what's King James only or King James is bad. But better to say we have an abundance of evidence to sift through. God has richly provided for us. And again, the differences are so minor. We know that the call to stay alert is accompanied by a call to prayer elsewhere in scripture.
And staying alert means being vigilant in prayer. So it's not like, you know, one thing says there's an elephant in the room and the other thing says the elephants don't exist. You know, you're not talking about mutually contradicting things, contradictory things like that. So it's again, there's a debate among scholars.
The majority of scholars today, Greek scholars, New Testament scholars, Bible translators favor the other manuscripts, the King James does not knows in that tradition. The debate goes on. But for me, it's just a matter of thank God for the abundance that we have.
And if if you're more familiar with a particular translation, feel free to use it. Hey, thank you for the call. Thank you very much.
All right. Eight, six, six, three, four, eight, seven, eight, eight, four. By the way, if you've tried to get through the broadcast on other days or been on hold for long periods of time on Friday and never gotten on some Fridays, we've got more space.
We've got some space right now. If you call in now, this is a great chance. We'll get your call before the show is over. Eight, six, six, three, four, eight, seven, eight, eight, four.
Let's go to Jim in Chicago, Illinois. Welcome to the line of fire. Well, thank you, sir. So Genesis 17, 17. I always read that, you know, when you read on that Abraham maybe had a little doubt going on, but there's some very fine scholars that say, no, Abraham didn't doubt at all. And I was curious of Michael Brown's take of that. Yeah, I've always assumed that when when Abraham falls on his face and laughs like, yeah, right.
Sure. I'm going to have a kid, but I'm always going to have a kid. Yeah, he's he's at that point doubting. He's it just seems too incredible to him.
It's just like you've got to be kidding me. You know, I'll give an example. Nancy and I were chatting about some promises that that God's given me that decades ago were easier to believe. But as I'm 67 now, a whole lot would have to happen for those things to be fulfilled in my lifetime. But I believe they will.
I truly believe they will. So I was telling her a friend had called the other day, Christian leader, and was just sharing with me and began to talk about what he believed still lie ahead in my future and things that God was going to use me in. And Nancy said, yeah, when you're 90, we were just laughing about it because on the one hand, I sitting here, I'm absolutely sure the things will come to pass, but then let's just say God said to me, and you will be a star in the NBA, one of the best basketball players in history. Well, I was just like, oh, yeah, right.
Sure. That's going to happen. Oh, yeah, right.
And my prime, I never could have gone within a million miles of the NBA, you know, let alone be a star at the age of 67 or 70 or 80. So, yeah, to me, there's some incredulity there. I'm just going to read it for everyone. And then what I'd like to hear is the reasons that some say there is no doubt. So because Abraham saying, look, you know, Ishmael, let Ishmael be the guy. I've got a son. Let Ishmael be the guy. God said to Abraham, as for your wife, Sarah, you shall not call her Sarah, but her name shall be Sarah. I will bless her. Indeed, I will give you a son by her. I will bless her so that you'll give rise to nations. So she's almost 90 at this point.
He's almost 100. She's long past the age of childbearing. Right, which we learned in Genesis 18 and common sense would tell you that I'll bless her so that she shall give rise to nations.
Rulers of people shall issue from her. Abraham threw himself on his face and laughed as he said to himself, can a child be born to a man 100 years old or can Sarah bear a child at 90? And Abraham said to God, oh, that Ishmael might live by your favor. God said, nevertheless, Sarah, your wife shall bear you a son and you shall name him Isaac. Right. So the the reason that some would say that there was no doubt there.
What's their strongest argument that you found? Well, they said that the posture when he fell down before God is the posture of worship and that he wouldn't be laughing if they fell down. In other words, that was like he was down before God and that would be a posture of surrender and submission. And therefore he could not really be laughing at that. But the follow up, like you just read to me, really clarifies it because he's telling him, Sarah, that your wife is going to bear you a son. Abraham, you're going to call his name Isaac, but I was really curious to your take on that.
Yeah, yeah. Again, and especially because afterwards he said so. Look, it's both and in other words, he's reverent. This is God speaking to him. So he falls on his face. But the falling on his face is because he's he's going to laugh. It's like, OK, this is crazy. I'm falling on my face to honor you as God and worship you as God. But come on, let it be Ishmael.
I've got a son. Let it be. This is crazy.
It can't happen. So, of course, Yitzchak means he laughs or he will laugh. And you have that. The laughing comes up quite a few times in the narrative. It's very, very interesting. And then Ishmael is guilty of mitzachhek, which is the same word. He's mocking.
So it's just there's this constant play on the tzachak root from from laughter to mocking, the incredulity. But, yeah, it seems clear he's a great man of faith. It doesn't mean that a certain thing God says like, oh, come on, Lord.
I'm a believer, but this is a little extreme. And that's part of relationship, part of relationship. Yes, that's right.
Just one other. When it says he maketh me the light out in green pastures, you're a Hebrew guy. Maketh doesn't actually mean he takes the legs out from under the sheep and throws them down, right, or does it mean that no, no, but it's they go willingly. That that's that's the thing. Yeah.
So so I don't really look sort of the no dish, the orbit, Sandy. So it's he causes me to lie down. The Hebrew is what's called Hiffel. So that's causative. So it's just that that's what he does for us. We are his flock and he guides us and gets us there. Right. So as his sheep, we are not rebelling against him. He doesn't have to knock our feet out from under us or or club us over the head because we're a sheep. So he just he that's where he brings us.
He does it. Yep. Hey, thank you for the call. All right.
Eight, six, six, three, four, truth. All right. Tell you what.
I've just got a little over 30 seconds before the break. So I will come back on the other side, starting with Lewis and Las Vegas, and we'll get to whatever calls we can before the show is over. You know, I have been sleeping better recently, but I've been using Dr. Stanglers sleep supplements just to help you go to sleep at night, you know, melatonin, some other things, but a special concoction as they put things together really well and been benefiting by it. So I want you to benefit to go to vitamin mission dot com with our sponsor, Dr. Stangler, check out all the great health supplements they have there. And again, you get a 10 percent discount when you go there. And then Dr. Stangler turns around and makes a generous donation to our ministry.
So check it out for yourself. Vitamin mission dot com are one and only radio sponsor. Dr. Mark Stangler, doctor of the decade. We will be right back. This is the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on the broadcast.
We go straight to the phones with Lewis in Las Vegas. Welcome to the line of fire. Yes, sir, how are you doing? Doing very well, thank you. Yeah, I saw you a couple of weeks ago, I was there at the conference. Wonderful. Yeah, great time. Great time.
They're a dream center. Let me get to my question, because I want to be rude to the other people on hold. So I was a pre-trip guy, grew up in the Calvary movement since the early 90s, taught classes over at Calvary here in Las Vegas on pre-trip over the years now, watching debates like, you know, online with different people. And I just got your book.
I've been reading through it. I can pretty much answer a lot of the questions, but two of the questions I struggle with, the first one is that Luke 21 passage. The argument from the pre-trip position is, why would Jesus tell you to pray that you could escape all those things if he didn't think that you could escape all those things?
So that's the first question. So let me hear your answer on that, please. Yes, so Luke 21, 36, where Jesus says, Pray that you can escape all these things that are coming of the destruction of which he speaks so you can escape many, many different ways. For example, the end of Isaiah 26, as it's talking about the wrath of God being poured out on the earth, it says, Go hide yourself in the inner chamber until the wrath passes by. We know that in Revelation 3 10, where there's a promise to the Church of Philadelphia about being kept from the hour of testing that's coming on the whole earth, that that same Greek construction verb and preposition only occurs one of the time in the New Testament. And that's Luke 17, 15, where Jesus prays for his disciples and says, God, I don't pray that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one so you can escape from by having a place of hiding, a place of refuge, as well as by being rescued out of there. Many different ways you can go to a bomb shelter and escape the fallout of a bomb or you can be evacuated.
So any number of ways. And when we have the rest of the scriptures saying that the tribulation is part of what we should expect in this world and that God would give us grace to endure it, then then this would lead into the other thing that's interesting is that the language that's used there, right? Let's say I've got ESV in front of me.
Stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place and to stand before the son of man. So why would you need strength to be raptured out? Right.
Right. So it's almost contradicted by that language. So strength to endure, strength to to have a place of refuge. And you could there could be places just like when when God poured out his his judgments on Egypt, that the Israelites were safe and that was side by side, that that lot and his and his daughters were not taken out of the earth, but just went to a nearby place that even with the flood, no one was not taken out of the earth, was just unable to rise above the flood because he had an ark.
So any number of ways to escape. OK, and how would you answer when they say, yes, we agree with the Isaiah passage, but God was speaking directly that he would save the Jewish people because it's being quoted to the Jewish people in the Old Testament. They say that doesn't refer to the church, just the Jewish people, that he will protect them, I believe, in Petra and the rocks or whatever.
Right. So so then what I would do is just read through Matthew 24, Luke 21 or Mark 13 with them and say, OK, so when do things change here and in other in other words, who is he speaking to? He's speaking to disciples the whole way through. Whereas you have to make now two separate groups, those that are here and those that aren't here, those that endure to the end will be saved and others will be taken out.
We're talking to you, you, you, you the whole time to God's people in the midst of it. So he's not making a distinction in the promise here. He's he's not saying, oh, now to Jewish believers here, oh, you get taken out. But if you're a Jew that comes to faith after no, then you get preserved in there. There is no separation. And if you just read through Matthew 24 with someone. Right.
And then obviously there's the parallel where it repeats itself at the end of the age. Just ask him, OK, who is you? Who is he to immediately after the tribulation of those days when the when the son of the son of man comes and you look up and you say, who's you?
Who's you? You know what they say? They say the you is the person who is alive, the generation that's alive during the time when all these things happen, but it's all right.
The problem is it doesn't work. In other words, as the thing recapitulates at the end of the age, fine, but you have to be steady with the you the whole way through. It is always speaking to believers that that are here during these times. It is never talking about one group gets taken out. And now so I'm talking to you, Lewis, because I'm talking to you, Lewis. Well, I'm not talking to two different Lewis's. So if you just will go through that exercise of reading through any of the passages of the Olivet Discourse, so Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and we'll read through them to see you speaking to the same people throughout. Again, you can say there's a time gap from first century to the end of the age. You know, they're like mirror images and things like that.
But you can't make it two different classes of people. So that's one of the things that I struggled with when I believed in pre-trib. When a friend asked me about it, when I was saved a couple of years, I thought, oh, that's because he was confused reading it, who the different use. I'm like, well, I guess I don't know as much as I thought.
So I got all the pre-trib books. But just reading the Bible, I never would have seen it. So that's your answer best as I can. OK. All right, this coming back, promising that he's going to get us and bring us to where he is.
What do you say to that when people ask you that they say, well, why would he come and immediately land when he promised he would receive us and bring him to where he is? Right. Well, so so you're talking about John 14 is the other passage.
Of course, we deal with that 43. Right. Right. This is about second coming. It's talking about him coming to to dwell with us here. When he says in his father's house are many rooms, that Greek word for room only occurs one other time in the entire New Testament.
And that is later in John 14, where he says, my father and I will come and make our abode with you, that we'll make our rooms with you. OK, that's what it's talking about. OK, great. All right. God bless you. Sure thing. You bet. All right. Let us go over to Beth in Ozone Park, New York. Welcome to the line of fire.
Thank you, Dr. Brown. I have three quick questions, if I may. One is how come Jesus says that he had to leave so that the Holy Spirit could abide with us if God is everywhere? He's only present. I mean, couldn't couldn't Jesus have made it to the Holy Spirit? So Jesus would stay and then the Holy Spirit would would be here at the same time, right?
Yeah. So the the reason would be that his mission on the earth was very specific. God being here in our midst was a very specific mission in visible form. It was it was to teach the ways of the kingdom.
It was to raise up his his followers, then then the primary mission to die for our sins and rise from the dead. With that, with that completed now with him leaving the earth. Now the work is carried out through his followers all around the world. If he stays here, aside from other issues, then everyone would still be going to Jesus. They'd still be going to him.
And the message would still be localized by him leaving. Now he's finished his mission. Now the Holy Spirit works through the disciples. So in his absence, the Holy Spirit is declaring to the world Jesus is risen doing the same works through these regular ordinary people.
Now this is happening all over the world. If Jesus was still here, likely the crowds are still coming. I mean, there are other reasons, but that would be a simple one in terms of why couldn't he stay plus the Holy Spirit? It's not like the way some people would teach it that he had to leave because he was the Holy Spirit. So it's kind of like take off the one hat, you know, put on the other hat and change uniforms.
No, not at all. Rather, there was a function and purpose that being completed. Now the Holy Spirit everywhere all over the earth at the same time, working through his disciples as he is right now, that that gives the work a global presence and makes it clear that he's risen because he's doing this through us.
Excellent, thank you. My other question is the fallen angels, and I know somebody called about this recently, the fallen angels that mixed with mankind and apparently had offspring. What happened to that offspring like that?
Because I'm not sure I do believe that. Yeah, if you follow that theory, then there is mass destruction of that offspring with the flood, but that some continued after the flood. And those are referenced as the Rephaim or the Anakim. And these are the ones that Israel destroyed. The argument would be that's why Israel wiped them out, because they were descendants of this mixed breed. So if you hold to that theory, you say that most were wiped out with the flood. And those that that were born after the flood through the similar act continuing, then they were wiped out by the Israelites and they are no more.
If you want to get weird, then you say that they're still around today. But that's obviously not a view that I entertain. Right. OK, thank you. Last question, you do believe that the rapture does occur before or after the tribulation, so you believe the choice is in the tribulation, right?
Yes, yes, exactly. So that at the end of the tribulation period, as it says in several passages or after the rebellion, after the Antichrist is revealed in Second Thessalonians two, that the Messiah appears, Jesus appears for the whole world to see, we are then caught up to meet him, glorified bodies, resurrected bodies, caught up to meet him and to get so so we greet him, welcome him as he returns. And together we now descend to the earth where he destroys the wicked and establishes his kingdom on the earth. And for a full statement of that, the book that was just referenced, Craig Keener and I wrote, not afraid of the Antichrist, why we don't believe in a pre tribulation rapture.
We don't divide over it. Many fine Christians differ on this. We live in readiness to meet the Lord any time because no one has a guarantee of tomorrow.
But yes, we expect his public return. We are caught up together to meet him at the end of the tribulation period. And he gives us grace to endure during that time and protects us from his wrath. Hey, Sabbath question I couldn't get to, but we've got a lot on the website. If you go to AskDrBrown.org, search for Sabbath, you'll get a lot of info there. May the blessing of the Lord be yours this weekend. Another program powered by the Truth Network.
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