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A Former Transgender Talks About Freedom; and Thoughts on Jonathan Cahn's New Book

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
September 4, 2019 4:20 pm

A Former Transgender Talks About Freedom; and Thoughts on Jonathan Cahn's New Book

Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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September 4, 2019 4:20 pm

The Line of Fire Radio Broadcast for 09/04/19.

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I'm about to speak with a man who can tell what it's like to be a former transgender with much more on today show stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown welcome friends to the line of fire. This is Michael Brown delighted to be with you coming we live from Pensacola, Florida. Hope you're in a safe place with hurricane Dorian wreaking havoc in certain parts of the world. We are in Florida it's it's safe.

We are well well into the West, but we have a very special guest today an amazing story to hear and then at the bottom of the hour could open up the phones 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 7884 I Jonathan Kohn on the air with me on Monday that Somerset would you agree with everything in his books would you support this and I want to talk with you about it. Take your questions as well.

We we hear constantly about transgender individuals. Today I have an older cousin who some years ago informed us that he was actually a woman as a married man with children. I think grandchildren at that point and he said this is how it felt all his life hear from others and now were told. Science confirms this, and that there is some have a female brain in a male body is outside to saying we should be sensitive in a three-year-old says I'm really born a girl's body. We should accommodate that will I guess Jeffrey McCall has his own story to tell us a story need to hear it.

Jeffrey, thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire. Thank you so much for having me back my joy to be with you, sir.

I don't know that much about your life, your story I know some, and that I know some folks that know you and said you've got a talk with Jeff and II know you wanted to talk about March that's coming up in just a few days, so we will talk about that.

The first who are you what your story yes my name is Jeffrey McCall. I actually live in Georgia on the go, story of my life. I grew up in the elected fee at the Nashville area and in my life around 12 years old, sexual, about 15 years. Note I had acted out on the much older male, and that was the beginning of my life in 15 to 29 of living in, sexuality, and later transgender around 27 years old. I I started living at Scarlett Carla's name. I went by and I was being by colleges and psychiatrists and was diagnosed with gender dysphoria and really was beginning to make a to begin the process of transitioning into living out of the female and it was staring at that I really had in common with God about, like Chang and one night you know, I grew up in church so always heard about God but me would like God way out there work here, you know, I could hear about other people interacted with God or what got it up to them, but it did seem it was not personal with me. I just remember that Niles living at Carl Outlook. The transgender light thing the doctors I was drinking so my I was having affairs with a married man there in the town attorney there are likely to complete rack and I just felt the further I was going to Scarlett the heavier the more depressed I felt.

And I won.

I cried out to God and not that God I know that people live for you know that something happened in there like that and I literally felt got it… About going to start on Sunday at the other like hanging in there, filled with love, enjoy these naughty things in the last of the Liber list for you. I literally got out of my mouth out loud in my bedroom alone. I was crying and weeping and all the illness came I came in my mind and heart so clear. Father God thank yet you will live for me and I would like the speed of hope that was planted in me and from that that board over the month and one month after that continuous change continue to happen until I felt the Lord completely and how will you Jeffrey when that's when that's first revelation came. I was 29 years old and how old you now I'm 3232. Alright so this is in the last few years, a deep transformation. I know that we want to celebrate what God is done in your life, but because there's so many questions about transgender identity and on how deep are these things and and is it in Nate. Is this something in your brain chemistry. I want to dig in deeper and help people understand so there was on the one hand, homosexual attraction, how young were you when you when you felt that that you were actually a girl everything like I really have to track that really started around 1112 it at eight. I always put myself in situations like if I would like to be the woman that was always my mind that I was more of a woman and even though I did not fully reach out or print out the live that lifestyle of 27 was always in my mind that was… But that's well thought out about the part of that and you don't have to answer this if you'd rather not but was was there any abuse in your background or anything heavily dysfunctional in your upbringing. Yeah, there was a few things that happened when I was one actually saw an older male with black himself different thing at me when I was young and I remember during that time.

Thinking like what this is like strange and weird, but I would like attracted. That was one of the beginning of of of the confusion that the enemy would later lie about like I've drawn me to be Samantha yeah I was never sexually right or molested per se, but there were things that all is not a thing and then when he started seeing professionals and they diagnosed you with gender dysphoria. It's really important that we we understand the process. This is not 20 or 30 years ago. This is just a few years ago but is supposedly more enlightenment and people are more careful. So it's one thing your fractured arm and the doctor puts the x-ray on the screen and you see okay, posted up on the computer now and you see right there is the fracture go to the dentist. This is gonna be cavity in this tooth here and they show you the shot on the computer while okay that's a big cavity when it comes to gender dysphoria or other psychological or emotional conditions or issues. It's obviously a more nebulous thing, so how when they diagnosed you with gender dysphoria. This was basically they asked you questions you responded and they said okay you fit in this category, how deep did they go yeah well the first year of graduate school year about getting my Masters degree and when I was off to graduate school without looking at Scarlett and it was the first thing that I called back hydrant of the year they changed my psychiatrist and get only know the thing. The thing, chart conformity only know me like a month or two, but we had one meeting about the Bagley had met 2 to 3 time when he diagnosed with gender to orient so there it was questions like you feel like a woman you're living like a woman your dating man at the woman you have gender dysphoria that you are you are a man trapped in a woman's body. There's nothing wrong with that they never really Toby Demott. I have the medical document that I was diagnosed with gender display but they don't talk you like that they don't make you feel like you have a need for yet that's what the medical community.

I figure chart, but they will be nothing wrong holy girl you're really a woman that you are so again if you let say a child in school now maybe six years old to starting school feels a certain way and the parents are told no. Just affirm it in the school should cooperate with and then you go talk to a medical professional all know, nothing wrong with it, as opposed to saying okay actually you are a man in the something wrong if you feel that you're a woman, so it's not likely did chromosomal tests and things in and look for abnormalities.

They just did this entirely based on conversations yeah there were no deeper research into any of it a matter of fact when the man was telling me like I'd like you are the body basically tell me like you can start hormone you can start start to do a mixture about like they were telling me like you don't get on with your life. Take two aspirin and then the headache will go away that simple. Yeah whatever you want. Basically so so you as far as you could tell that if you had wanted to get recommendations to go ahead with the sex change surgery and other things that you would you would not have gone through a massively extensive series of tests and check checking and making sure in and try to slow the process to guarantee it.

Your mind, they were just let's do it never definitely wasn't anything plugged out of the product that the process is actually speeded up and I would like to hear you are your died diagnosed with the candidate for you to medical psychiatrist to begin major surgeries and here I am just admit lifestyle for a while and I might diagnosed with orienting other tell me like you want to start hormone you want to start third Street so ever know. Kind of profit they will know slow down like let go to more counseling for a couple years but be you know what going on. It was despite everything would like go for right now yeah and and obviously if you experience this.

Others did, and whatever protocols are supposed to be in place and etc. obviously this is not unique.

I've heard others from years back, but with similar stories. Now you're giving us a more current one. What if someone said to Jeffrey, your you're lying to yourself, your you're a gay man. You're actually a woman attracted to other woman trapped in a man's man's body. You're just denying reality.

What would you tell them well that thing is that what my reality. I want to talk with people you really, really, was true to me. That was the truth that by what, but when I had that encounter with God and he said that yet. I would live for him.

First of all, I knew I liked living for. I knew my life at the new of the brokenness and myself and father. And I was involved in. I do that myself that I would not living for God and that night when I cried out yet you will live.

For me the exact word it was months later when I left everything. As I grew the Lord and left all that all the Lord, you know, maybe I'm not God.

Maybe God is right about think maybe this is deception, and as I start following God, I realized that it was. That is not who I am. That is not allowed to be and I was born out credit for something more. And that was be my identity. I started learning through the Holy Spirit, teaching me and showing me think that there was never little things that led up to the enemy being okay you confusion and deception on me. And so the Lord has really that in me that I'm none of those things. The process I go through every day as I'm learning more, but that is what I sale Jesus Jesus really changes people really were lost working really were in sin and rebellion. He really changes people like what you hear about this freedom. More to come back and much more with Jeffrey by the light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual evolution. Jim is Dr. Michael Brown on random subjects but specifically my interview with Jonathan Kohn and content of some of his books, 866-3487 84 and that will be at the bottom of the hour. I want to go right back to speak with Jeffrey McCall and Ann Jeff again.

We don't know each other, but it's very easy to hear in your voice and hear your words, how how real God's work is in your life because it's it's the behavior is secondary to the heart.

Just like the words are secondary to the heart. When you get to the heart right what comes out of it.

The words we speak the actions that we we live out are very different.

So Jesus is changing all of us from the inside out. It's not a matter of stop doing this. Start doing that. It's a matter of knowing him and being change from the inside out. So I want to talk about that. What's happening like in NSU somewhat to transgender questions with first tell us about this freedom March where when why go into thousand 17 I would hear my pet money at an event in Washington DC while it bears but thought it looked like people are marking for every cause under the sun in the country. We were going all the thing why don't like we have an where people get left out like to follow Jesus Christ with the vet about around 13 and after the testimony, have like get out in March and March of the street that the downtown area, the like. I started it for DC would like to hear the personal and on May 5, 2008 the last year and that's what we do yet we did we.

I've told friend the different people that I was going to begin a people to come alongside to help and it built this amazing team in on what we do is that you support the vision of it to share testimony and then press the March and the city they were in and we started in DC. The Lord really laid on my heart start to head to DC and we have between about 50 and 75 people sought last year and about second one we had our second one, and Los Angeles, California in November of last year we had like over 200 2050 people there and each wonder just growing. We had DC again this year and we had thanked Paul the end of June and are it is actually next Saturday on September 14 at Lake yellow amphitheater in Orlando, Florida. So we are just really excited the board to take the money and so many platforms, but I just really feel like there's so many more testimony and involved with the subject. I like let you know I like to share the testimony publicly outside and bring you and that's what we do. We don't do it in a conference you don't go to the church the Lord that on our hearts to do that, we pick a out at you in the downtown areas of the city, and there we publicly proclaim it right there in the airways, let it ring of what is that our lives knowing March, proclaiming it to in the Scripture, I really got that with Colossian like that you made a public spectacle of the enemy.

I was behind closed doors reality with public and was right there to the street the Jerusalem what he truly did that day. So that's what we do we get publicly proclaimed Jesus throughout the city are working folks find out about this yet, but I can go to the website for freedom. March is freedom to March.com Rita PO March.com on. They can also go to my website I could email me my website for previous number four that's at the time.work got it all right friends there you have it for the information and obviously the whole purpose is not to bash or attack others but to lift up Jesus and say he set the captives free right, Jeffrey. You've explained that the more you got into this other identity.

This female identity, the darker your life became let's say someone says what your experience and you're free to have your experience, but they say for them, they they they increasingly got whole or happy or fulfilled by living at a transgender identity. You lived in that world you lived in the world process is a homosexual man and is someone beginning to identify is a woman, would you say that in that world you found people who really content in their identities and it found wholeness or would you say that you find a lot of others empty and hurting like you actually found out that most people that were in the position I was in that it also transition further than me actually like the thing like a lot of hope that it wasn't people full of hope. The people that I do the reliving, transgender, transsexual, all those identity was heavy marijuana use alcohol use things that I feel there would be a legal drug that you and the ones that didn't use any substance. You could always bother was a whole there's something there trying to feel so I was around those type people want one of the part of that community and it never felt like people were whole at Ali held office at like everyone I was around, including myself, broken, and then again you have, how long would you say that you lived in that world, and in those circles want made economic that's writing a letter transgender. I was in the circle, with 15 to 29 so you know what is that 14 years that's so so you rip shoulders with a lot of people. What if someone says will they were struggling because the society is homophobic entrance phobic and and it was the fault of the society and if we were more embracing people would be happier if if folks have been very embracing of US Scarlet and gay man think that would make you happy now that the opposite of the truth because when I lifted Carl.

I was very affected 2015 gay marriage have come out really the whole country is really shifting to accept all think LGBT Q community. My professor at college.

When I started going to pot Barlett a copy Scarlet, I will go out to what you call like straight bars and every happy if you go out with girls. They are like go out with my girlfriend to be God like my life was like where people want to verify with her.

It was like everyone was expecting it, and it was like I feel with her, and when I showed people do it. I was suicidal. I thought he committed suicide at that time that free from all that want to follow Jesus. So the complete opposite of the narrative that the world spend some time. People speaking out against it or not welcoming. This will make people suicidal. When it was up with me. I was suicidal wanted to die with hopeless for you. When I left the light now when I follow Jesus. So, yeah, and again I'm asking honest questions, but spoken to enough people that I had a good idea for the answers will be but but many still believe these lines that they believe the Smithson support. We address them. What what you say to parents who have a child that's identify as transgender or maybe you're speaking to a 1516-year-old teenager right now who really believes that now that they're tormented the really convinced that they're in the wrong body would you say to those parents or to that to the teenage reverie feel most free to address. I would point out you family member struggling with it. I have an encounter with God. I availed it up with her peers. Spiritual ears because I know and I will not lack of need I truly believe he thinks it will encounter with God. It was telling me how good he was that he loved me that he wanted me and get paid for me that all the following evidence so for the people that are lifestyle makers that might hear that they believe that her older people to talk to at Dr. encounter.

Why don't you ask if he is really real. To show you the truth, but show you a business priority from God or not and I guarantee you he will show up or send someone to say. Yeah and what I appreciate so much of what you're saying is that dishonest formula not to push a button. There are things we get counsel, we grow in wisdom someone can give us insight a behavioral thing that's helpful that's that's always great their Christian psychologists and counselors they can do that but bottom line fundamental change. Deep, radical, lasting change is going to come out of an encounter with God, and that can't come just by writing on the experience of your parents, religious faith or by attending church services yes were part of the church family and we have mothers and sisters around us, but that encounter is everything and and Jeff. We've only got two minutes, but are you finding more openness, the LGBT community, or hearing more testimonies of others were being set free all yeah I mean I like your comment for from all of the country and other ministries. I know I people reach out every day or every other day with their children or even the people that have delegate now. They really are questioning think that I done a show on DayStar network with Johnny show about my book. My book is called for such a time, and if the memoir my whole life while after filming their couple months later when air man reached out me that I was on vacation and they found it was like 2 o'clock in the morning and I found a show you wanted and I hurt your testimony and you like I've been feeling some cabin living in a living and homosexuality like over 15 years. I think some like that that I just felt something I felt something like questioning again about this. This is not right now. I am so there all the time because we are speaking out, not by you know I'm think with you for your show today to to let more people here that there is a totally different narrative. There is hope to keep it there absolutely is and folks can I encourage you to pray for Jeffrey and to pray for this in the free to March because there there is a constant attack that comes against them there attacked by the community.

They came out of. Sometimes the church doesn't know what were you coming from the devil was just mess up and fall, and God is a great work in their lives. But there testimonies that the greatest answer to LGBT activism is testimonies like this pray for Jeff. Pray for the freedom must be strong in the Lord's brother sure you want. Thanks for joining us on the thank you for have all right light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown line of fire now by calling 86630. Jim is Dr. Michael Brown joining us on the line of fire. Michael Brown from you rely from Pensacola, Florida. If you're planning on attending the light the fire again conference which is starting tonight and going through Saturday night.

Everything song.

Weather here is fine and really good, safe place in the states right now, 866-348-7884 is the number to call to give any random questions you been wanting to ask me if there's something you differ with me on what to probe or challenge me on always welcome for that and in particular, if you like, interact with me about my interview with Jonathan Kohn on Monday. His new book the Oracle. I'm happy to cause justice to quick update all right you see what this is now, but the book came out yesterday, Jonathan Kohn, the Oracle right and as of moments ago. Just check right here on Amazon terms of all books.

It is number 3#3 and all books and Amazon and got a size number two yesterday I was emailing Jonathan to say Mrs. absolutely one of his like I don't know how this works it's it's while this will work sooner. Just kind of stunned that this that mean that because a book is a best-selling book that God is blessing.

What if that was the case that I have to say he blessed the Harry Potter novels where he blessed the da Vinci code, right, you know I have to I have to say something like that or he blessed the mother best-selling book that's heretical or filled with trash or whatever. So I I'm not saying just because a book goes crazy and sales that that's clear proof that God is blessing obviously not but some things get my attention and I try to look at the bigger issues and the bigger pictures in the process so someone was listening to the entry we did with Jonathan. This is what Dr. Brent doesn't seem to be endorsing the point specifically seems to be saying check it out for yourself will of course I'm saying check it out for yourself and I got finished going through reading the Oracle yet or or or looking into everything that Jonathan said but here is what I do know is what I do know him and I think this is what's important to hear. I know Jonathan as a friend… A super close friend, I'm a weekly email sometimes in a conference is May will have a meal together, but he's the same person now that he was before. His books become New York Times bestsellers that I can to is as far as I know, our fellowship is the same. It's not about book sales, which about book sales is just kind of in amazement while what's happening, but we can we talk about the, the, the fear of the Lord and judgment coming on America and our desire to see Israel saved the words that's what motivates and that's what moves him so it's not a matter of what he's going try to come up with a cool seem to have another best-selling book. Rather, he gets burdened with things and then spends months or years researching the can agree with this research are not, but he's taking it as seriously as he knows how going on this journey of discovery.

You might say well it's not right. Principles of biblical interpretation. I don't think everything is claimed to be exegesis of the text is much as is this fascinating isn't this interesting and and is this something. Regards, getting our attention symbol. Can you verify all details, no note can't and I haven't gone through everything to do so. You said, but but why would you do the entries on us all very, very simple because I believe in the overall message.

I believe in the overall message and my sense is that God is getting our attention with the message.

So for those unfamiliar with this let's go back to the harbinger. Okay Jonathan Kohn this young Jewish leader with the congregation in New Jersey and then we would speak at different events was very popular speaker. It is messianic Jewish conferences and would speak in some other events but he was not a nationally known figure nationally known leader. He had not written any books he did not have a major Internet presence anything like that.

Okay. And he writes this manuscript, the harbinger were. He's convinced that God is seeking to get America's attention that there's judgment in the land and we need to wake up. That's the.

The long and short of it and he has this manuscript he's never published a book, he has no publisher planned out and he said an airport. He's getting ready to travel to speak at a promise keepers event if if I remember that detail when a brother comes up to him. Now this brother by vocation as an accountant, but he's a prophetic man got his spoken things to him. Some of you remember the New York Giants football player strong Christian David Tyree.

David Tyree had been injured. This brother was David Tyree's accountant's name is Hugh Beeson to victory's accountant.

He had a word for him but was reluctant to do it on your account but I feel God's given his word for it that basically he was going to make a miraculous catch in the Super Bowl historic catch. I don't have exact wording in front of me in the Super Bowl as the Giants were playing in the Super Bowl well.

David Tyree proceeded to tell him that's I can happen, the Giants are knocking to make it to the Super Bowl. And even if they did make it to the Super Bowl. He's injured and not likely to be ready to play and even even if even if he could play he wouldn't be playing because he wasn't in though, that the front line of of the number one players was sure enough the New York Giants make it to the playoffs.

Sure enough New York Giants make it through the playoffs to the Super Bowl and the historic game with doing patriots came in undefeated and this was going to be the record-setting season and instead the New York Giants when and David Tyree makes a catch. Consider the miraculous catch the greatest catch in Super Bowl history.

Eli Manning somehow manages to pull away from the defenders.

It is gruff could recall that that he was he was in the grip bench deploy process past David Tyree catches it with one hand pressed against his helmet. The ball pressed against his help with the defender try to fight him away and historic and anyway it was perfect prophesied as it happened before this same brother you Beeson feels a word for Jonathan Kohn doesn't know him little intimidated to go up, speak to the stranger, but has a word for about a book he's written a manuscript and ends says I can connect you with a publisher. He then writes to Stephen Strider charisma and said you need to publish this book is going to be this mega best-selling book of millions of books, etc. and Stephen Strang and his team look at it. Believe this poster put it out.

Jonathan Kohn get some TV exposure on Christian TV right before the book comes out the week it's released becomes a New York Times bestseller and remains a New York Times bestseller for a year right. Not only so the end of the year between between physical books, e-books, audiobooks, different things like that is run a million copies sold again from an an unknown author, publishing the first book and without a massive national advertising campaign. Now that doesn't mean to me that everything in the book is perfectly academic to get his wrist that was on him like a look at that's old woman must be like the Bible and not on the Senate. But this kind of thing gets my attention and makes me say I believe God wants to get our attention. And that's I felt with Jonathan's books right, you might go through. It's a different this point I don't think these dates are accurate or is that really apply prophecy fine. Go ahead.

Look at it differ working through. That's what Jonathan would tell you as well I'm he's quite meticulous and detailed to sit on the air 3000 pages of notes you taken in the preparation of of the book, but when this thing the Oracle now skyrockets to the point that before comes out its number 10 means never had a book of his before came out number within the top hundred and I was a public rally for the praise of men when it's a wall with his big on Amazon. That means got no it's just it's a phenomenon it's something exceptional. It's something unusual, something is going on so now number three size number two voted kid number one, what, why, why in the world and what if you don't accept all the calculations that we as a proper biblical exegesis will work it out.

That's like to tell you, working out, look at it. I do believe that God is using this to get her attention and to look afresh at the role of Israel in the world and God's larger prophetic timetable, not date.

Setting known or not they said someone said how could you have them on everything predicted mess in such a book did come to pass is a false prophet and and speak to one of the books of which one was it me just think your office when I look.

I think I'll remember which one it was Mr. sparrow that the mystery of mystery of the Smita write the mystery of the Smita you might so everything prophesied.

There didn't come to pass. Actually when he was on the air with me and issue statements on the prophesy anything on the telling you what is Arisa going to happen.

I'm simply looking at patterns up to now well in this particular case, friends with the Oracle with this focus on Israel and Israel's role in the world. I believe it is very significant. I believe that you cannot look at Scripture without recognizing its significance. Was it an Israel conference in Pensacola this past weekend and my colleague Scott Fulk, who is pro Jew pro-Gentile was married to an Arab okay he is he is pro Israel and his pro-Palestinian because he's he he has God's heart for for the region, which means you care about the people right but he quoted Derek Prince to this effect. So I'm quoting the quote of a quote so I can say it's an exact quote that Israel is mentioned something like 2500 times in the Bible or more. So if you have a wrong understanding of Israel. It's going to give you a wrong understanding of the Bible makes sense.

That would certainly make sense. So I would simply encourage you to check it out for yourself if you're interested to check it out for yourself you can do the micro reading and look at everything it's okay agree with this don't agree with this. I think this is proper application Scripture think this is not work it out but then look at the the macro that was his overall message of the book which again is some of his other books. This is kind of painted mystical terms and someone on a journey just the way we Jonathan thinks and present things and seems to draw people in to get to the larger message which larger message look at Israel as God is working and it hasn't the patience for the larger world. The right tech phone lines are open to questions of the six execs referring 7884. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author internationals and Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown is 7884. There are some things I have recently agreed to take on and if you want to read more, go to my Facebook page. There's a statement there is Dr. brownies could your brand on Facebook. There are concerns about lack of order, lack of accountability in the charismatic church in many circles, that's absolutely true not just charismatic but many other independent churches that are to be Baptist oriented run things, but there there independent, but specially we have we have a lot that are independent or independent ministries in the charismatic church which I am a part and because of that, there's often lack of accountability because of that, it's hard to discipline someone. There was one thing if you're in a denomination and your discipline by the denomination and you're not allowed to pastor again and that denomination until you go through proper repentance, restoration, etc. if it which time you can return to ministry so in in the same way you want to have a process in place where they can be proper discipline, proper accountability, and in independent churches that are not part of her denomination and look in the early church.

If you were in New Testament times a year in the church of Corinth and you were excommunicated for repeated unrepentant sin where you go. It's not like you got all the first assembly of the first Baptist all the first Baptist and first Presbyterian all the first Presbyterian go to word of truth or you have the option there was the church of Corinth. The believers in the city if you excommunicated your excommunicated.

So it's been difficult over the years to carry these things out. There have been cases where leaders have fallen in their in independent churches, nondenominational churches and and they've look for help, and others. It's okay, we will come in, other respected leaders and in bring accountability and restoration and look at if if others have been hurt in the process reach out to them and as much as some people criticize of so-called apostolic networks. A lot of these arose with the whole goal of accountability a lot of these arose so that that there could be some type of oversight okay your pastor for church, and you have anyone you're accountable to is the board some and you can just fire at will at one got friends in the city will can I hold you accountable so many would say we want more of a structure where okay we will look to a leader like that.

So you had it L respected elder in the city and people look to that older spiritual fathers you come to the person with dispute certain try to mediator. We have a panel respected leaders. This often doesn't happen at their different attempts to do this you denominations, church networks, etc. but I was recently asked to get involved in a very very messy situation.

It's a particular ministry that I have not supported over the years and have the relation to, but for the sake of the larger body. I've been asked to help oversee a process with other leaders were these leaders will look at charges that have been brought against this individual will evaluate the charges or the accusations true or they false if they are true, how long the things been going on have things been handled properly in the past. This will be looked at and what's interesting is the moment you take stand to do this you get a flood of people saying thank God this is happening and then you get attacked from every other side and corner so just to say this friends I think we agree that wherever we can. Clean house, reflecting God's heart right with both truth and grace, reflecting God's heart with both righteousness and compassion whenever we can do this and do it in the right way, not just yelling at each other over the Internet and endless posts and counter posts work we can do this in a righteous biblical way and bring order and hold people accountable.

The better so again if you want to find out more. This statement on my Facebook page estrogen apprentice could your brand.

If you have no idea what I'm talking about this. Pray for me. The reason for you to even get involved or think about it, but we want God's truth. God's grace to prevail. We want to address those who have been allegedly hurt. I say allegedly just have to say that were about to investigate things and this will be done thoroughly. This will be done on the way that will glorify the Lord and the goal is to bring truth into the light.

Nothing should be covered up where listen if someone sends in private they blow it in private and they come and confess those sins in private and they make restitution in private and this is not something that is affected the overall course of their life while you don't have to broadcast that for the whole world to see. You know what I'm saying if if someone lost their temper. They just got furious and and and got upset and they they lost their temper and their overture house and they play put your hand through a wall you punch the wall, fence evidence, like I'm so sore. What a jerk. I can't believe I just did this even if it was a pastor I can't believe I disses I'm so sorry I get it. Of course, but it does pay to get this done in than any other damages you incurred because this is affected your part house. I'm so sorry and please I want you to come with me.

As witnesses consent to share this with my leadership team at such an embarrassing thing.

Okay what you don't disqualify the person or sit them down or Broncos put the video on the Internet. Nono.

But when sin is not repented of when it's not dealt with properly.

When when sins that affect others and that affect our life and reputation are not dealt with privately that they must be dealt with in a way which becomes part of a public record for the sake of integrity.

So these are things that were addressing and were were seeking to do them in a righteous way not to please the critics.please accuse us not to please defenders, but to please the Lord, 866-34-TRUTH.

Let's grab one call today.

Darrell in Dallas, Texas. Welcome to light a fire thank you I appreciate that. Yes sir yes sir.

My questionnaire is around. It seemed like yours are great deal of controversy about all things I thought of the church regarding parishioners either partaking in wiring and drinking wine and NAV effective as all individuals are male and others.

I know that we are very Scripture catches about but also load Rice talked about all when talking Jonas about drinking wine.

No, I just wanted to be able to get other outside perspective spiritually see what is your thoughts about partaking in my wife and I maybe should not have a glass of wine wrong or you write on first thing is if you can't do it in fullface and confidence. It's wrong for you.

Paul says in Romans 14. If you can't do it in faith than it sin, it would be wrong for me.

I drank to get drunk before I was saved and I got saved in a total abstinence church and in my mind there's no reason to get drunk only trying to get drunk and and then I felt I should be an example to others serving other been tempted have no desire to drink. I'll never drink the rest of my life. But the Bible does not explicitly forbid drinking it forbids drunkenness, which you have to do is decide in your own life. If your former alcoholic you stay away from it. You don't want to open the door.

Are people looking at you as an example, you concerned that your drinking of wine will be a bad example to them or opened or that these are the things you have to consider, but the Bible is against drunkenness, it does not call for all believers to totally abstain, but it's been my lifestyle and something I highly recommend as a witness and is an example in a fallen, decadent culture, where would you say you fit in terms of your own life and experience what I picked up my own personal life experience that I have to be very conscientious about goals individual that I may have imports over that oftentimes lift it out but was in the world you know you probably would've cared but being in Christ. I think that we have a responsibility to make sure that we always we would take care of our bodies would take care of those around us spiritually and nurture what their needs are before Arnie and saw, straddled the fence on whether or not it's wrong because I understand that does not forbid it because I was there for medicinal purposes and also talked about actually drinking, partaking in and out made before sitting down and have an occasional wine but my wife and I struggle with it to see whether or not it's been wrong for us to get this wrong person engaged in it or not, and so to answer your question. You know, I know that in my recovery process. I know that though I've had some problems with alcohol and something that maybe I needed. Diversity is located in print asked Lord show me.

I don't currently and presently I don't have a problems larger gloating that I drink every day or anything like that but I have to be very County is about those again around me.

You know and maybe did they have issues of bear problems with alcohol, drugs, and what it is that our prophetic prophesying about all their particular situation. You know you can't be double minded. One way talking about abstaining in them same. Another way you know you maybe sit down you Dragon I feel kind of a student you want to say so right, so it's really simple to me. It's really simple that you'll never it's one thing to be legalistic sir, and judging everyone legalistic lien putting a straitjacket on people but if you say I'm just a step higher.

You know what if it's me causes my brother stumble. I don't eat meat. Romans 14 Sam white I'm unlikely to give any ambiguity here. Nothing double minded. My own choice of staying ultimately will save more lives and I could hurt anybody in the process.

Hey man, published May the Lord give you and your wife clarity back with your friends tomorrow thoroughly Jewish. There is


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