Confronting a Society That Has Lost Its Corporate Mind

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Friends, you're not crazy if it feels like the whole world around you has gone crazy. The good news is we have the truth in God's Word. What is it that stands in the way of complete rebellion in every society on the planet? What is it that stands in the way of the world completely losing it and absolutely self-destructing? Well, on the one hand, there is God's restraining power and in certain ways he works so as to not allow total chaos to happen while still giving us certain liberties and freedoms of choices. At the same time, it is the presence of God in his people. It is the Word of Truth in his people where we are the salt of the earth and we are the light of the world and as we stand strong, it stops our society from totally going crazy.

Without the church, there would be absolute madness. Now is the time, friends, for you and I to be healthier and stronger than we've ever been and I'm here as your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity to help infuse truth and courage and hope and strength in you. That's exactly what we want to do today. Now here's the number to call. I'm going to open the phone lines to all questions on all subjects from whatever background. 866-34-truth, 866-348-7884. That means, as we've done hundreds of times, I warmly extend an invitation to those who differ with me, to those who have different perspectives, be it culturally, be it morally, be it politically, be it religiously, be it theologically. By all means, give us a call.

866-34-truth. Alright, let me give you some perspective that I hope will be helpful. There are some in our broader society, especially people who are non-Christian, non-religious, who will look at many conservative followers of Jesus in America and think, why do you guys have this fixation on homosexuality? Why do you have this fixation on transgender issues? Why do you guys get so worked up over this? I mean, it's just a tiny percentage of the people and just live and let live. Why are you so fixed on this?

Do you have issues? I understand people asking those questions, but here's what the people asking those questions may not know. If you've been going to church regularly for the last 50 years or the last 40 or 30 or 20 or 10, whatever it is, but you've been attending regularly for a good number of years, I doubt that on a Sunday morning, you have heard more than one message in a year that just focuses on issues having to do with homosexuality or transgender activism. Maybe you haven't heard one sermon in many, many years when Pastor Louie Giglio was scheduled to pray at President Obama's second inauguration, and he was invited to do so because of his work against human trafficking. It was discovered that this fine evangelical pastor, 15 or 20 years earlier, had made one reference in one message with compassion, reaching out to those with same-sex attraction, the homosexuals, and offering them new life in Jesus, and because of that, he was disinvited and he had to step back politely. In other words, in all these years of preaching, he hardly ever talked about it at all.

That's actually the norm. Now, you have some churches that focus on these things more, but they are in the tiny minority, and then you have a broadcast like this that deals with moral and cultural issues much more, so we'll talk about it. But the reason that this is an issue, the reason that some of us are drawing a lot of attention to it, is because it's not just a matter of what people are doing in private or with their own lives or just having a live-and-let-live mentality.

It is because there is an effort to indoctrinate and change the mindset of those in the larger society. You say, well, prove it. Okay, I'm about to.

I'm about to. I wrote an article for The Daily Wire, an exclusive for subscribers to The Daily Wire, so I want to take you into that as a non-subscriber, and you could read the rest by subscribing there. It's called Sociological Contagion and the Growing Non-Binary Movement. Sociological Contagion and the Growing Non-Binary Movement.

So here's how it starts. According to a controversial 2021 Barna poll, nearly 40% of Gen Z describe themselves as being somewhere on the LGBTQ spectrum. A 2021 Gallup poll cuts that number in half but still notes the upsurge in numbers. Roughly 21% of Gen Z Americans who have reached adulthood, those born between 1997 and 2003, identify as LGBT. That is nearly double the proportion of millennials who do so, while the gap widens even further when compared with older generations. So even Gallup's lower figures still point to a dramatic upturn in LGBTQ identification, especially when compared to previous generations.

So here are the Gallup numbers. Gen Z, born 1997-2003, 20.8% of those polled identify as somewhere on the LGBTQ spectrum. Millennials, born between 1981 and 1996, that's 10.5% of them identify as somewhere on the LGBTQ spectrum. Gen X, born 1965-1980, it's 4.2%. My generation, Baby Boomers, that's born 1946-1964, 2.6%. And then Traditionalists, so those born before 1946, 0.8%. So, friends, you tell me, how do you get from less than 1% identifying as somewhere on that spectrum? There's people who, when they're polled, so they're older, not as many alive, but still, born before 1946, there are many, many millions of Americans that fit in that category. Less than 1% would self-identify as somewhere on the LGBTQ spectrum. My generation, Baby Boomers, it's 2.6%, even Gen X, 4.2%. Why the dramatic jump to 10.5% of millennials and to 20.8% with Gen Z, or according to the Barna Poll, 40%?

How does that happen without indoctrination? It's not like there's something in the water, people drinking in the water and they're suddenly becoming gay, or they're breathing in the new air and they're suddenly becoming transgender. And especially the younger they are, the more prone they are to just say, hey, well, I'm bi. I can kind of go either way. Or they want to leave their options open. Or it's cool to identify as queer.

That's a new cool thing. Or it's part of the rebellion against elders for status quo. Or the gender binary, that there's male and female. Well, you rebel against stuff when you're younger.

And these things are common. Look, back in the late 1980s, there was groundbreaking work done by two gay sociologists in conjunction with other gay activist organizations, mapping out a strategy as to how they would change the thinking of Americans. And the Watershed book came out. Gay activists to this day will say it was no big deal, but it became a national bestseller. Who was buying it? Who was reading it?

And it's called After the Ball. And it's how America would get rid of its fear and hatred of gays in the 90s. The subtitle I just paraphrased. So it was by Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen, two Harvard trained sociologists, and they lay out strategy. Now, in the book, they say, look, look, and the goals of the book, as brilliantly laid out as they were, the goals of the book were nowhere near where we are today. In other words, in their wildest dreams, they didn't see things going as far as they've gone today.

This even beyond their expectations and goals. And they said, look, let's use the figure 10 percent for the population that's gay or lesbian or, you know, let's use 10 percent. We know it's not that high. We know it's not.

This is what they said. We know it's not that high. And maybe they would have argued for 5 percent. Others would have argued for 3 percent. They said, we know it's not that high, but it's a good number to use. And so that became the talking point, 1 in 10, 1 in 10, 1 in 10, 1 in 10, 1 in 10. That was the talking point for years. Lo and behold, millennials exposed to that bombardment day and night, they identify somewhere in the LGBTQ spectrum, 1 in 10.

How interesting is that? But here, I want to read this quote, and I have this at the end of the article. This was their strategy, okay? This was their exact strategy. They said this, and here's the exact title.

After the ball, how America will conquer its fear and hatred of gays in the 90s. Their goal was, quote, the conversion of the average American's emotions, mind and will through a planned psychological attack in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media. This was their strategy, and they lay it out brilliantly in the book, all right?

Let me read this to you again. This is their goal. The conversion of the average American's emotions, mind and will through a planned psychological attack in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media. Now, you add into that the educational system, medical professionals, social media, peer pressure, and the results have been devastating. And it's what psychologists would refer to as sociological contagion, that something spreads through a society and people just get caught up with it. And it's as if it's in the water or in the air.

It's just out there. And especially now with social media and smartphones and everybody being constantly connected, you just get bombarded instantly and constantly and brainwashed and indoctrinated. And it's just it's like a flood, an absolute flood. And people are influenced.

Add to that demonic deception. Add to that Satan and his hordes working behind the scenes to destroy people's lives. And friends, it's no surprise that we've seen what we've seen. Why is it that we have been drawing attention to this for so many years?

Because we saw where it would go. Because we've warned about these things for many, many years in writing and on radio and on TV and in other formats and books and things like that to say this is going to affect your kids and grandkids. This is going to affect our very liberties. This is going to be the principal threat to freedom of religious speech and consciousness. That's why we have raised these issues. Now, as for sociological contagion, how many of you are old enough to remember the Cabbage Patch dolls?

In fact, I would I would love to hear from some of you who were kids around 83. I think the craze exploded. Maybe we've got a picture. One of these we can put up as I speak.

Yeah. Some of you watching on Facebook or YouTube will remember this Cabbage Patch dolls. I remember when when our daughter, who was what, maybe six years old, when the craze hit, she just she had to she had to have a Cabbage Patch doll. This is before there was social media and we didn't have a TV in our home, but she had to she had to have one.

And I, as a good father, had to get one for her if I could. And I mean, families would camp out overnight at the store. It's going to happen there.

They'd attack each other violently. It's just a craze. And then afterwards, the kid throws the doll aside, doesn't care about it anymore. Do you remember if you were a kid back then, do you remember what you felt like or why you had that?

I'd love to hear if that's the case. Or a parent. You remember living through this. It's an example of sociological contagion. But now it's not a doll.

Now it's kids saying, I'm queer, I'm trans, I'm bi. Friends, this is why we must bring moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Let's do it together.

Be right back. Get on the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on the line of fire.

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You will not miss a thing. AskDrBrown.org. If you go to the phones in a moment, 866-348-7884, it was in 2004 that I got tremendously burdened by the Lord to begin to address issues of homosexual activism in our society.

I've shared this before, but let me share it again. When I question in my heart, Lord, why me? I don't come out of homosexuality. If that was part of my testimony, I would share it.

That's not my background. I've never struggled in that area. I've never had a particular burden to reach out to those with same-sex attraction. I have friends that were ex-gay, but I never had a burden to focus on that.

And my PhD is in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures from New York University, and my professional ministry training is all in a different direction. I'm not a psychologist or a counselor or something like that, so why me? And what I began to sense immediately is nobody gets to sit this one out. This is ultimately going to involve everybody, and you need to be on the front lines of pushing back. At the same time, I knew that was only half of it. In other words, pushing back against an agenda that I felt was destructive to our culture and to our country. I'm not talking about hurting individuals. I'm talking about pushing back against an agenda.

I knew that was only part of it. I knew that God also cared about people, that it was not just an agenda, but it was people. One pastor commented that if you say homosexuality to my generation, we think an issue. You say it to the younger generation, they think a person.

And it's both. It's both an agenda, an issue, and it's a person. So I really prayed that God would give me his heart. I made appointments to meet with local gay activists just to sit and let them share their story, hear their heart.

I read whatever books I could by people who said I tried to be ex-gay and it didn't work, and now I'm a gay pastor. I would read some of the stuff and just weep, because my heart broke for the people. And it was early 2005 that this came together in my heart with the word, reach out and resist. Reach out to the people with compassion. Resist the agenda with courage. So much of what's happening in the world around us today, as crazy as it sounds, we and others have been talking about it for years and documenting it. Now that it's reached this proportion where transgender issues have just swept the nation. I mean, it's the Biden administration versus specific states in America.

And if it's different, it's different countries around the world saying, hey, we made some mistakes here. We better pull back and try to transition children and things like that. It's become this national discussion. When we started talking about it, people were like, why are you wasting your time talking about this?

Mike, you've got so many other things to cover. It's like, hey, we haven't stopped doing Jewish evangelism. We haven't stopped going to the nations. We haven't stopped pouring into missionaries to send out around the world. We haven't stopped doing Jewish apologetics. We haven't stopped debating. We haven't stopped doing everything else we do. We haven't stopped traveling, preaching. We haven't stopped writing commentaries. We're doing everything we've always done.

But now we've added this in as well. And I told people, I feel like an umbrella salesman in the desert. That's how I feel, like an umbrella salesman in the desert. And there's no cloud in sight. And we're building warehouse after warehouse filled with umbrellas.

And people said, Dr. Bond, why are you doing this? Because the storm's coming. Because the storm's coming. And when it comes, we won't be able to manufacture umbrellas fast enough.

People, metaphorically speaking, have been buying those umbrellas from us for years now because they realize, whoa, this is right here in our home. Now we've got an issue with our 15-year-old daughter who suddenly identifies as a boy. Now we've got an issue.

My spouse says he's actually same-sex attracted. He's not interested in me anymore. What do we do? Here we are. Kids come home from school with a book, you know, and this is a pretty picture at the end, and the two boys are kissing, and the parents are like, what?

That's in your book and you're in first grade? So these are the issues now before us, but we've been telling you for many years they were coming. The good news is, and I'll get to this a little later in the show, the pushback continues. We've told you for years that those on the left, the radical left, those radical activists, LGBTQ, they will overplay their hand. And we are in the midst, we are in the midst right now of the pushback. The key thing is it must ultimately be driven by the gospel. Let governments do what they do.

Let the media do what it does. Let others push back however they push back. But let us lead the way in prayer, in reaching out with love and compassion to those who differ, and to say, hey, we're not against you. We don't hate you. You may think we hate you because we don't believe in same-sex marriage and those kinds of things, but we're sure God has a better way. Build relationships. Get involved with people's lives because they are fellow human beings created in the image of God, loved by God, and for whom Jesus died.

And have the same mercy and compassion on them that God had on you and me when we did not see things God's ways and we had our own perspectives. And through prayer, outreach, love, and then standing for what's right, let's help turn the tide. All right, I'm going to go to the phones, and here we go. Let's go to Glenn in Dayton, Ohio. Are you listening on Truth 106.5?

Is that the frequency in Dayton? I sure am, yep. All right, cool. All right, well, Glenn, I remembered it from a caller the other day. What's up, sir?

Hey, I just wanted to weigh in. As Christian people, as we are constantly recognizing that we're not perfect but we're struggling to be as righteous as possible, I think the issue for a lot of people with the homosexual rights and the way it's all handled in society, I think most of us that are not within that minority mostly feel like, hey, live and let them live, let them do what they want to do, so long as they let us do the same thing. However, from my perspective, those folks are pushing their agenda very, very aggressively down our throat on our children.

And to me, that is where, unfortunately, the gloves kind of come off because my number one responsibility is to protect my children's innocence with everything that I have. You always have the greatest subjects on your program. I love listening.

I listen every single day on my drive home from work. And again, I just felt like it was a good opportunity to say, wow, we love the Lord and we realize there has to be a place. I was in a management meeting at work yesterday and we were discussing world like little Legos. We all some of us are bigger, some of us are smaller. But as you fit together to make a bigger picture, there is a place for each one of us.

It's a matter of figuring that out. And boy, it hurts like the dickens when one of us get stepped on. But for as far as far as our point of view mostly goes, though, I think most Christian people say we would sit back and be passive.

We would turn the other cheek. But there's coming a point here to where it just feels like the homosexuals, the LGBTQ community has gained some momentum. So they feel like they've got to keep the momentum going. And they're just we feel like I feel like I can safely speak for many others as well and say we feel like they're just jamming it down our neck. And they're such a minority.

We don't feel like that minority has the right to control the rest of our majority with all due respect. Yeah. And Glenn, I appreciate you weighing in and thanks for being a regular listener. Shout out to everyone listening on one of six point five truth and date. And we welcome you as one of our new stations. Make sure that you get our updates. Ask Dr. Brown dot org. Sign up there.

We'd love to stay in touch with you. So here's what's important to understand. I saw this immediately. It became very clear when I remember reading the book by Alan Sears and Craig Austin, The Homosexual Agenda, which said this is the principal threat to freedom of speech or freedom of conscience in America.

And I thought, wow, it is it really is. So here's what I began saying years ago. Those who came out of the closet want to put us in the closet.

Now, here's the progression. We're talking about activists, right? They're the ones aggressively coming out of the closet, marching the streets, making demands, etc. So they come out of the closet and they said, we want our rights.

We know. Look, let's look at it from their perspective. This is the way we've always been.

We didn't ask to be like this. It's as natural for us to be homosexual as it is for you to be heterosexual. This is be the gay activist argument.

Right. And if you're you're listening, gay, lesbian, and you think I got this wrong, then then tell me, call in eight, six, six, three, four, truth and tell me. So here's the thing. And there in their minds, we we want to be able to have our relationships openly. We want to walk down the streets holding hands like a heterosexual couple could.

Why? Why should it be a law against it? Why should we be discriminated against at work? You know, boss finds out that you're in a same sex relationship, but you do your job fine.

Why should we lose our jobs? So we just want to be treated fairly with equality under the law. And and you believe what you believe.

That's fine. Just live and let live. We we want our rights. Well, then move from that to we demand you recognize our rights. Not just we want our rights, but we demand you recognize our rights. Then it moved to we're going to take away your rights.

Then it moved to we're going to put you in the closet. And in point of fact, that's why this is such an issue. In other words, if this was not a matter of redefining marriage for the whole nation. Right. And basically codifying you as a bigot if you don't accept that. If it was simply a matter of, hey, you have your relationships, you do what you do. We're not invading your homes and telling you you can't.

If your gay church wants to pronounce a blessing ceremony, whatever. But just don't try to change the whole society, remake our whole ideology and now mandate that this must be taught in our schools. But see, that's the inevitable direction. It has to happen.

It had it. This is the way it must go in terms of the direction of the activism. That's why we've given the warning for so many years. That's why we've been shouting it from the rooftops because of the inevitable trajectory. Now the question is, as it's gone this far, what are we going to do as God's people? We'll be right back. Why is Twitter bored and employees?

Why is Twitter as a whole seemingly so afraid of Elon Musk potentially taking over the company? 866-348-7884. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you here in the line of fire. Phones open for all questions of all kinds.

I'm going to come back to Elon Musk and then I want to give you some encouraging words about society continuing to push back against extremism. But before I do, I did a chat, a live stream last night on a YouTube broadcast. And I guess it was on a couple of times before that. I didn't remember specifics, just because we get to do a lot of these as we have time and opportunity. So the gentleman hosting me just wanted to remind me that his viewing audience was largely Calvinistic reform and that might color some of the questions coming in. I said whatever, because the whole thing was I just came on and answered questions. So a good part of the time, and I imagine if he allowed the entire broadcast, would have been devoted to people following up with critics' questions against me. Not a syllable about what I've written, what I've taught and preached for decades. So I mean many, many thousands of pages of material, many, many thousands of hours of material. But rather, why am I a friend with such and such whom they consider a false teacher?

Or why don't I call out this one more? And I thought, isn't that remarkable? That there's a certain circle within the body that is really, that's the focus. And everything is judged through that grid as opposed to let's watch someone's ministry. Let's take in who they are, what they stand for, what they preach and teach, et cetera. Right.

What do I emphasize? And the only time some names come up is if somebody calls me on the phone during the show and says, how come you're on so-and-so's TV show? Or why don't you attack this person more and call them out more? Because I'm not talking about them otherwise. I'm not bringing them up. I'm not actively working with them. Many I don't work with at all.

And I thought it's a very interesting mindset. And when people said, well, you don't give callers an opportunity, it's like, call. I'm looking, we have open phone lines for people to call. I have extended invitation to those who are critical of our ministry, who differ over and over, hundreds of times. I've often done it before coming on the air on social media. Hey, critics, skeptics, those who differ, you're welcome to call.

And they don't call. I give the opportunity. And then for those who actually have a substantive debate with me, right, on a biblical issue, a doctrinal issue, an eschatological issue, a theological issue. I've said, OK, if you find a qualified representative willing to debate because you want it to be fair, right? You put me in the ring with Tyson Fury, the World Heavyweight Champion, and in a matter of seconds, I'd be knocked out cold. I might even be killed by the power of his blows. Well, it's not fair.

He's the heavyweight champ. Well, the same way you can put me into debate someone, even if their points are good points, but they're just not qualified to do it. So I defeat them in the debate, what does it prove? So I want it to be someone that's qualified, a good representative from the other side. When I'm asked to speak on college campuses on controversial issues, I request, rather than me giving a lecture, can you find someone, one of the professors or someone qualified, recognized by the community there, that can take the other side and debate me so people can hear both sides?

I've tried to do that for years. We had a short-lived debate program on the Wakening Network that was just up for a few months and then had to shut down. But the challenge was to get people willing to debate me in a fair debate where everybody gets equal time. So I'm trying to put relevant issues on the table day and night, and we don't get a lot of takers willing to challenge us.

Well, it's not good on radio because you control the mic. Now, let me be candid. I'm on shows, as much as the door opens, that are hostile to me, as long as I get to speak. In other words, they control the mic, they control the agenda, but at least I got a shot at it, I'm going to try to get my voice out. But if you say, no, I won't do it unless it's fair, neutral, moderated, great! Let us have a fair, neutral, moderated debate on any of the key issues we talk about here, any of the key things I stand for. Let's do it! And these days, this of course is our schedules permit, but these days you don't even have to be in the same physical place to do it and get all the funding for the video cameras and the right audio setup and the building to host it.

You can just do it online. Yeah. So my door remains open. The fact is, these issues that a small group of people with passion focus on, it's not the focus of 99.9% of you listening and watching, which is why we're here together.

I just want to mention that, just for the record, that my door remains wide open. Okay, so Elon Musk, I'm not looking to him as a bastion of godliness. He's definitely saying some good things that I agree with pushing back against the radical wokeism of our culture, right? I'm absolutely clear on that, and there are some things he's saying in terms of concerns about Twitter that are very valid concerns in terms of freedom of speech.

And personally, I'd love to see him take it over and open it up the way that he talks about opening up and see with his genius if things could be expanded in a much healthier way. Because right now, just bear in mind, on Twitter, not only does Twitter have the power to ban the most powerful man on the planet at that time, President Trump, but there are major media figures, people with millions of followers, and if they will dare say on Twitter that a biological male remains a biological male, no matter how many hormones that person has, no matter how many sex change surgeries they have, they remain a biological male, they get you banned on Twitter. I mean, it is that radical, that extreme. So what's the fear?

What's the fear? So here's an article on CNBC. Elon Musk buying Twitter could have, quote, grave implications for civil rights, says Urban League.

And then here's the actual quote here. In a letter Monday to Twitter Chairman Brett Taylor, this is Marc Morial, president of the National Urban League, said, Musk has expressed concerning views around content moderation and free speech that are counter to the principles of creating an online community that is safe for marginalized communities and protects our democracy. He said, without key protections and safeguards, much of the concerning activities we see on Twitter, including white supremacist propaganda, racial, religious hatred, voter suppression, through election disinformation, algorithmic bias, discrimination, the heart of our national discourse are likely to proliferate under Musk's ownership. So first, that's a massive presumption. That is a massive presumption that will proliferate. The fact of the matter is, groups on the radical left have all kinds of freedom of speech. And it's even been documented that some Iranian leader calling for the annihilation of Israel and he keeps his account. And then then you just say Richard Levine will always be a male, even if his name is changed to Rachel.

You get banned. So it's completely the other way. All this is just trying to shift things out. Here are my own views on how much freedom of speech should be allowed. It's really simple. Now, I need an attorney on with me and maybe some social media legal expert to flesh this out.

But to me, it's really simple. Are there categories of speech that are forbidden under law? Right. We have freedom of speech is a fundamental American right. But that doesn't mean you are entitled to all speech. Correct. There are things that will break the law.

In other words, if you stood on a street corner. And let's let's say you're a white supremacist and you go into a black neighborhood and you start screaming out. All right. We're going to go to the house number here.

Address here. We're going to burn this house down. We're going to shoot and kill everybody in there.

And I'm going to give you instructions on how to use your weapon. I would be fairly sure that that would be illegal, rightly so under our free speech laws. On the other hand, if if you stood in a street corner in the middle of the city and said white is the best race, as despicable as that comment is attacking other races, I think it's it's free.

Just like when you have a black Hebrew Israelite extremist there saying that that white white man is the manifestation of Satan. As as perverse and corrupt as that is saying it's freedom of speech to do it. So in my mind, the social media platforms are the same. Social media platforms are the same. That if it's legal on the street corner, it should be legal on social media. Is it legal on the street corner to hold up naked pictures? Shouldn't be. Shouldn't be the same thing on your social media platform. So you have certain filters and certain things could be banned and prohibited. But otherwise, there's freedom. And as it's been said, real freedom of speech is to allow people that you disagree with to say disagreeable things. Right.

All right. Let me give you a bunch of highlight examples and I'm going to go back to the phones. A bunch of highlight examples of areas where society is pushing back. Some of it is is political, legal. Some of it is is just grassroots kinds of things. But let's let's take a look at this and some examples of pushback in our society. Let's see.

And I'm going back a couple of weeks on some of these to catch up. How about this from from Fox News? Lauren Boebert declares runner up to transgender swimmer Lea Thomas rightful winner. So here you have Colorado GOP Rep Lauren Boebert, who is leading a resolution in the House of Representatives to honor the runner up to transgender swimmer Lea Thomas as the rightful winner of the NCAA women's 500 yard freestyle swim.

I mean, it has to happen, this pushback against the absurdity of a biological male smashing records of biological females. This from the Daily Wire. Audience wants content they believe in, not woke corporations who hate them. Daily Wire CEO unloads on Disney and Daily Wire says, hey, we're going to put 100 million into investing in programming for children because Disney's gotten so activist and corrupt in their approach.

How about this? Wall Street Journal, Oberlin College loses its appeal. A court upholds a 31.2 million judgment against the Ohio school for defaming a local business. You just can't do what Oberlin participated in doing. And the courts have said absolutely so.

How about this? This is big. March 31st, Jerusalem Post, Finnish court clears lawmaker of charges over homosexuality comments. There is a Finnish parliamentarian, an established woman Christian in the world of politics. And she had made comments over a few years differing with the Finnish Lutheran Church's teaching on homosexuality, et cetera, and was facing potentially six years in jail for her comments. I document it in silencing of the lambs. And the Finnish court said, no, this is a freedom she is allowed to have.

A lot more examples. Society, different nations pushing back against the extreme. And friends, we told you this is going to happen. It's happening all around us. We come back, we go to your calls. Thanks for joining us on the line of fire. 866-34-TRUTH. Let us go to William in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hey, Dr. Brown, thank you for taking my question. I'm a member of a Methodist church. And about three years ago, they had a vote. They were having a vote on same sex marriage, which it was a worldwide vote, which luckily, you're probably familiar with it, but they voted against same sex marriage. But the church I attend, I was pretty much discouraged because it pretty much fractured our church. Because I would say half of the people were for same sex marriage and half were not. So I got into an argument with one of the members about it being in the Bible, how Paul had quoted that homosexuality is a sin. And then they made the comment back to me that Jesus never said homosexuality was a sin. So I just want to hear your viewpoint on that. Yeah, so first ask them a question. What did Jesus say about a husband beating his wife?

The answer is nothing. Well, does that mean it's okay for a husband to beat his wife? So you first want to expose the ridiculousness of the question. If I say, what did Jesus say about kidnapping children specifically? While he didn't address that specifically, does that mean it's okay to do it?

So you just want to expose the argument from silence, how bankrupt it is. Having said that, the answer is yes, Jesus does address this three separate ways. Now he didn't need to because everyone knows that first century Jewish teaching absolutely forbade homosexual practice. In fact, it was considered to be so uncommon in Jewish circles that it was fine for two men that were maybe studying in a study hall together to share a bed because homosexuality was just not an issue.

It was considered that off limits for Jewish men. But even so, Jesus addresses it in three separate ways. Number one, Matthew 5, verse 17.

I'm going to give you a link to a video that will lay this out very succinctly in six minutes. So number one, in Matthew 5, verse 17, Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. So what does he do with the moral commandments of the Torah? Like it says don't commit adultery, he takes it higher and says don't even commit adultery in your heart, right?

It says don't murder, he takes it even higher, don't hate your brother. So in the same way, we know that Leviticus flatly forbids homosexual practice saying it's detestable in God's sight. So Jesus takes the moral commandments of the Torah higher, he doesn't abolish them, right?

He fulfills them, he brings them to their fullest meaning, that's the first thing. Then in Matthew 15, beginning verse 19, Jesus says that what comes out of your heart defiles you. Not the food you eat that comes in your mouth, but what comes out of your heart, that's what defiles you. So he then lists the sins of the heart.

One of them is sexual immorality and it's in the plural in Greek, porneia. That means all forms of sex outside of marriage defile the individual. That's Matthew 15, that absolutely included homosexual practice in his day. Then Matthew 19 verses 4 through 6, he defines marriage as the union of one man and one woman as God intended from the beginning, united for life. So he tells us what marriage is in Matthew 19, 4 through 6, the union of one man and one woman for life.

He tells us in Matthew 15 that all sexual acts outside of marriage defile, and he tells us in Matthew 5 that he reinforces the Torah's moral commandments. So there's no question where he stood on it, there's no question where Paul stood, there's no question where Moses stood. So you've got the issue, the witness of Moses, Jesus, and Paul, which is overwhelmingly strong. And of course, Paul writing to the Corinthians says, some of you used to be like that. You used to be adulterers, you used to be engaged in homosexual practice, you used to be drunkards, but you're not anymore because you've been changed through the gospel. So that's the hope of the gospel. As for the Methodist Church, sadly, the whole reason that the vote for same-sex marriage was shut down was because of conservative churches, Methodist churches that held to the Bible in the continent of Africa and in countries like Russia. Otherwise, if it was left to America, the Methodist Church of America has gone liberal by and large, the conservative part is very small, so now they're officially going to split over it. You know, there's going to be the wing that holds to the Bible and the wing that holds to the traditions of people, and you'll watch and see that the ones that hold to the Bible by and large are the ones that grow and get stronger, and the ones that have departed from the Bible will keep losing members, as has happened with other denominations that have gone through these splits.

So the key thing is to be with people of like heart, like mind, that believe in the authority of scripture, that love Jesus, and whether it's the same church you're in or another one, God will plant you. So, William, if you go to my website, askdr.brown.org, and then forward slash consider this, make it one word, so askdr.brown.org, and then forward slash consider this, you'll find ten or eleven videos we've done. The first one, Can You Be Gay and Christian? And I go through six minutes with the Bible says, deal with the objection, so it's really concise.

Askdr.brown.org, forward slash consider this, and then you'll see the very first video, Can You Be Gay and Christian? Circulated to your friends, you'll find it very helpful, and these issues are clear as day, which is why there was never really any debate about it until after the sexual revolution of the 60s and going into the 70s. Endless commentaries, there's just almost no debate about these things because it was universally understood what marriage was, a man and a woman. Even if you could have polygamy or things like that, it's still understood the two essential ingredients, one man, one woman.

Without that, there's no such thing as marriage. Hey, William, thank you for the call. 866-344-TRUTH.

Let's go to Bruce in Duluth, Minnesota. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you, Dr. Brown, a pleasure to speak to you. I wanted to get your views, and this is not on today's topic. Yeah, that's okay. What are your thoughts about the video series, movie series put out by Dallas Jenkins called The Chosen?

Right. Do you feel it is edifying to believers like myself? Right, so I've only watched select episodes. I have friends of mine that absolutely love it. I mean, solid believers absolutely love it. And for sure, I'd far rather that people are watching that than so much of the trash that's out there. My problem is, as a biblical scholar, the moment something deviates or slightly different historically, I get distracted.

So I want to go back to it. I have it when I'm done just writing and praying and everything, just going to chill for a little while and maybe watch something. I've got it ready to watch, but I've only watched select episodes. So my take would be, of course it's not going to give it exactly the way the Bible does, but if it's presenting a true picture of Jesus in terms of the basics of the gospel and people can watch that and learn from it, wonderful.

But I can't say more, just because even though it's such a sensation that's out there, I have not watched more of it. And I get hung up in ways that most wouldn't get hung up. I mean, little details that, okay, let me try to get over that and take it in as a whole. So I'll give an update hopefully in the weeks ahead. And let's see, Mike in Burlington, North Carolina. Time is really short, but I'm ready to dive in. Are you there? Are you there, Mike? I tell you what, you must be listening on radio, so this is a little bit behind. What I see on my screen is how do I talk to a gay couple?

So I know you want to elaborate on it, but I want to make sure I get the call in before we're out of time. So, Mike, I would speak to a gay couple the way I would speak to any two other human beings. In other words, they are fellow human beings, they are created in the image of God, Jesus died for them, and they need to be saved. Not simply because they're a gay couple.

The fact that they're practicing homosexuality is just a manifestation of their fallenness and lostness, just like we're all lost without Jesus. So I would just get to know them. I would be a friend, I would take an interest in their lives. And then, as the door opened, I would talk to them about spiritual things. As the door opened, I'd say, you know, a follower of Jesus, well, certainly that's going to spark things. If they claim to be gay Christians, oh, we love Jesus, and we're married, and we go to our church, and we're active in our community, then say, hey, so the real issue is what does the Bible say?

Could we agree on that? And if they say, well, it has many different interpretations, okay, so then they're not even really claiming to be Bible-believing Christians. If they do claim to be Bible-believing Christians, ask them, hey, could we, like, study the scriptures on this together?

Are you willing to do that? Or maybe you give me a book to read and I'll give you a book to read. Maybe watch that video I just mentioned, Can You Be Gay and Christian? Say, hey, would you watch this, right? And again, that's AskDrBrown.org forward slash consider this, and you'll see it, the first video that pops up, Can You Be Gay and Christian?

on the screen there. So, ask them, maybe, would they watch that with you? Or maybe watch a debate where I and a colleague are debating gay pastors and things like that. And if they don't claim to be Christian, then it's just a matter of how do you lead them to the Lord? And maybe one's open, one's not. Same if it's a heterosexual couple. But love on them as fellow human beings, get to know them, take a genuine interest in their well-being. And it may be one of them is open to the Gospel, the other's not. Proceed like that. If they claim to be Christians, then it's one approach. If they don't claim to be Christians at all, another. May the Lord use you as a witness. Friends, we're out of time. Next broadcast, thoroughly, Jewish Thursday. Another program powered by the Truth Network.