Best of Broadcast: Rallying Believers to Stand for Sound Doctrine

The following program is recorded content created by Truth Network. Calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I believe you're going to be edified, encouraged, enlightened. My guest today, Egal Germán, is a colleague. When you write into our ministry and you ask Jewish-related questions and other script-related questions, you'll get answers from Egal, from Dr. Germán. He has a Master's and a Bachelor's and Master's in Biblical Studies from University of Haifa and then his Ph.D. in Hebrew Bible from the University of St. Michael's College, Toronto, and he's been teaching various academic levels with different schools in America, Israel, Canada for years now. So, I'm in regular contact with him through the week as he serves along with me here in Jewish ministry in our organization. But Egal has a fascinating personal story. He's Russian, then moved from Russia with his family to Israel, lived many years there, so he speaks fluent Russian, fluent Hebrew, and fluent English. And he was a Jehovah's Witness, so he was in a cult and then came out of that to the faith with an interesting journey and that's why he's been so burdened to teach, to instruct, to ground people in the Word. And he and some colleagues have put out a major apologetics statement in terms of key doctrines, key things that we need to emphasize, errors that we need to avoid.

I'm going to tell you how you can add your own signature saying, yes, I affirm this document. So without further ado, Egal, thanks so much for joining us on the Line of Fire today. Hi, Dr. Brown. It's so good to be with you and all our viewers there. Thank you for inviting me.

Yes, my joy to do it. So, just a little background. Tell our viewers and listeners how old you were when you moved from Russia to Israel, and then about your religious upbringing.

Excellent question. So I moved to Israel when I was 6 years old. I moved along with my parents as a Jewish immigrant.

We made aliyah in 1991. And I grew up in a semi-secular, semi-Jewish traditional family, with some interest in spiritual things. And one of the key things that really drew me to spirituality was my search of my Jewish roots. As a Jewish person, where do I find myself?

What are my actual roots? So I was really drawn to the study of the Torah as a kid, and this was the beginning of my spiritual journey, I would say. And so a Russian family, Russian-Jewish family at that time, were you secular, atheist? I mean, you knew you were Jewish.

What did it actually mean in your life back then? So of course, when I was in that young age, I didn't have any spiritual experience at the time. I didn't know the Lord, I didn't know the Bible. However, my parents, especially my father, was searching for God. And although he was not a believer, he prayed to Jesus, to Yeshua, while back in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, in the former Soviet Union.

And he was actually looking for a copy of the Bible, and he was really interested in learning about spiritual things, like he didn't know where to turn and find the truth. So now you're living in Israel, you moved there when you were 6 years old, with your family. Many, many Russian-Jews in Israel, maybe, what, one-sixth of the population today. And you end up becoming a Jehovah's Witness. So are there Jehovah's Witnesses in Israel?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is one of the most active pseudo-Christian religious groups. Very much active in Israel. So we found ourselves in this group when they knocked on our door, and a very nice two young Jewish men, and they said to us, we want to study the Bible with us. At the time we didn't know anything about God, anything about Scripture, we were absolutely clueless. And when they offered this kind of survival study, they said, we'll just offer you this kind of home visitation, we will come, we will pray with you, and you will get to know the God of the Bible. And we said, wow, that would be a great opportunity.

And after spending a couple of years there, we realized that we are in the wrong place. We have to get out from there as soon as possible, and the Lord was so merciful to us, to me and my parents, when He revealed the truth, the Gospel, the faith of the Gospel, and we trusted the Lord Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, and it was a real spiritual battle, actually, getting out of this cult, because there was a lot of peer pressure and a very brainwashed system of imparting their false doctrine into one's mind. And many Christians don't realize that in Israel there are thousands of people who belong to this specific cult, and unfortunately very few Messianic believers are notable, and have the ability and interest to tackle this specific religious group, and help those people by witnessing that to them, and bringing them into the life of the Gospel. And of course, there are many other religious groups out there in Israel, like the Seventh-day Adventists, and other groups were pretty active there, but I would say that the most active group, in terms of spreading the false Gospel and preaching the false Christ, is this group, is the JW cult.

Amazing. And I would say probably most Christians are unaware that Jehovah's Witnesses are active like that in Israel. I know we could get into this in great depth, but I just want to ask this in a very short way. What was the key thing that helped open your father's eyes and your family's eyes that Jehovah's Witnesses were not teaching the truth, that this was actually a cult? What was it? Was it one particular truth, one discovery?

What would you say? Yes, I would say that actually a couple of discoveries. Why would we fear they are very active at spreading their literature and trying to bring people into the Kingdom home? There are some pressing questions that they could not answer. For example, when we read the Bible, we saw very clearly in Scripture that the Bible references the divinity of Yeshua Hamashiach very clearly, and they deny that Jesus Christ is God. They teach that he is the created Spirit by the name of Archangel Michael, who Jesus is for them. Jesus Christ is not the eternal Son of God, the Creator of the world, Yahweh in the flesh.

They deny this truth. And while we were still there, the Lord, I believe it was the work of the Holy Spirit, drawing us to him and bringing us from this darkness into the light of the Gospel. So this was one, I would say, pressing truth on our hearts, that Jesus Christ is the Lord, Jesus Christ is God. Another truth that was really spent without for me particularly was that the Holy Spirit is not some kind of impersonal source. That the Holy Spirit is the third person of the one God, of the one God of Israel, of the Lord, Adonai Elohim.

So this was the second truth. And the third thing that we were shocked when we discovered this, it was the fact that this specific room is a very anti-Semitic house. So it's not that they deny that Israel has, that God has a plan for the creation of Israel, that they are still God's people, they have their own fake replacement theology with the 144,000 from the book of Revelation. They say that they are the new Israel. And in addition to this, I was shocked to learn that actually in the time of the Holocaust, they actually were allied with Hitler. And those things that I learned about them, they actually opened up our eyes to see that we are in an anti-Semitic house. We have to run away.

They're like from a fire. So God's grace and praise be to the Lord for this. Yeah, and of course it was a journey from Jehovah's Witnesses, then another step until coming soundly into the body with other Jewish believers in Jesus. And friends, I just want to take a moment and point you to this website.

We'll post it in our Facebook and YouTube chats. The website is BibleApologist.org. BibleApologist.org. And it is the website for the International Biblical Apologetics Association. And we're going to be talking in a moment about the Declaration. So this is the IBAA, International Biblical Apologetics Association.

It has a fourfold goal. Promote unity among believers on the basis of biblical doctrine, proclaim the gospel, identify and refute counter-biblical teachings, train churches in evangelism and apologetics. So you go to the website BibleApologist.org.

Share it with your friends. BibleApologist.org. You click the various links, but in particular, go to the Declaration and read it through. And if you affirm that, go ahead and sign, especially leaders of ministries. But this has signatures from all around the world. It's been posted in several languages already. In fact, Igor and another Russian-believing colleague worked on this initially. A few of us gave further input, but it's a document that they worked on vigorously over a long period of time to really sharpen, clarify. And Igor, how many languages has it been posted in, and how many countries have had people sign on?

Oh, yes, yes. So the Declaration has been translated into 16 languages. Wow.

And it was signed by Christians from more than 20 countries. Wonderful. Again, friends, we're just getting started. We're going to talk about the need for this, the importance of this.

The website to go to BibleApologist.org. So you can click on About Us to find out more. And then you want to click on Declaration and read that through just foundational doctrinal truths and foundational things that we are warning against to say, hey, let us sign on together.

It was my joy to sign on immediately as well. And then there are resources and things like that. But the key thing right now, what I'm asking you to do is spread the word. Spread the word.

Tell others about the website. Get them to visit there, BibleApologist.org. Pastors, leaders, share the Declaration with your congregation. Let us strengthen our foundations in the word.

We'll be right back. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. This is Michael Brown with my special guest, Professor Dr. Egal German, a colleague here in Ask Dr. Brown. Among the many things he does, teaches online classes, teaches at different schools, seminaries, universities, and answers many questions that are sent in to our website, Biblical Jewish Related, and has put a tremendous amount of effort now in the last year, plus in particular, to this apologetics declaration. Again, go to BibleApologist.org to find out more.

BibleApologist.org. So, Egal, what are the origins of this declaration? First, why did you feel the burden to do this?

And then second, how did it come about? Yeah, excellent question, Dr. Brown. So, I would say that the burden has been on my heart for many years. Basically, since I came to faith in Yeshua, to saving faith in Israel, I realized that there is a pressing need for a clear, Bible-grounded teaching. And once I accepted the Lord and I studied actually eating up God's word, I was immersed in it so much that I thought that the burden in my heart, that I want to share this with others.

And that's why I was led to my academic journey in pursuing my academic degrees, my bachelor's, master's, and PhD in biblical studies. But I also realized that within the Christian, or let's say, Messianic Jewish circle, there is a lack of spiritual discernment. Even when we do have some apologetics ministries out there, I do see that sometimes they don't emphasize and they don't address the things that are really pressing, the pressing things of the moment. So I thought that specifically written, I would say, in the last 10 years, plus, minus, there is a real dangerous rise in a variety of false teachings that have been affecting both evangelical Christians and Messianic Jewish believers. And the result of this was actually leading the believers away from the biblical faith. As a result, believers have undermined relationship with the Lord. And we are to heed to the warning that we find in the New Testament, when the apostles of Yeshua actually warned against preaching another Jesus and preaching another gospel. So some of our listeners might say, okay, wait a minute, we're just thinking about another Jesus and our gospel, okay, this applies maybe to JWs, or the Mormons, or other Christian groups, but not to evangelicals or Messianic believers.

But the problem is that some of those heretical teachings, they penetrate and they find their way into the living community. So that's why I felt this calling from the Lord, along with my colleague from Israel, Michael Karpovetzky, to put together this International Apologetics Declaration. We've been working on it since April of last year.

And we published the first version of this in Russian in July of last year, and a revised final version in March of this year. So praise be to the Lord that our ministry is growing, and it's a great opportunity to spread the gospel and cast out all this spiritual darkness that is so heavy in our time today. Yeah, and friends, on the one hand, there may be historic denominations that have statements laid out, or different ministries that have statements laid out, but many individual churches and believers have strayed from these things.

And then, in many of our circles, there are a lot of independent congregations, a lot of independent ministries, and they may not emphasize doctrine, they may get caught up with the latest fad or trend, and often it's bringing in real dangerous emphases. I just want to read to you, again, I'm at BibleApologist.org. Just click on Declaration if you want to follow along with me, BibleApologist.org. And then in the, click on the Declaration tab, the statement says this, this statement seeks to unite Christian and Messianic believers as one body of Christ on the principles of the biblical faith. The objectives of this declaration are one, outline the fundamental tenets of biblical faith. Two, emphasize the most common theological and practical misconceptions in contemporary evangelical and Messianic circles. Three, promote spiritual unity among believers based on biblical truth. As we said, it's been translated into 16, one six, 16 languages signed by Christians already from more than 20 countries. So, whatever language, if you're one of those 16, you probably are, you can read the Declaration in your own language and then you can sign on to say, amen as a believer.

I affirm this, and hey, let's do this, I haven't been giving out the phone number, but if you want to ask a question like you do on Fridays, any question under the sun on a biblical theological subject, especially Hebrew-related or Jewish-related, we'll take calls on that today, 866-34-truth, 866-348-7884. Egal, let's talk first in terms of broad generalities, not specifically evangelicals or messianic Jews or Russia or Israel or America, but broad generalities. What would you say are some of the the biggest areas where believers are slipping dangerously into heretical, even false gospel views?

Yes, so just as we outline in our Declaration, I would highlight five major areas where we do find geological issues emerging. So if we begin with the Bible, unfortunately for some believers, the Bible is not the foundation anymore. First of all, you have some even pastors and theologians teaching us that the Old Testament is not relevant to us anymore.

You will find others who will say, oh yes, the Old Testament is good and fine, it's God's Word, but in the New Testament, we have even more issues. And they would argue that we, for example, can trust Jesus' Word, but not Paul's teaching or Paul's writing. So you have a very foundational issue with your authority. What is your authority? Does the Bible, is your authority for your life, for your theology and your practice?

Or you rely on other sources? For example, for the messianic Jewish community, we have a very important question. What do Jews do with, for example, the oral law?

Or how they relate to the Jewish apocalypse? What do we do with some Jewish interpretations of the Bible? And what I find problematic is not that we refer to these sources, it's fine to study and refer to those sources, absolutely, it's okay, but the problem is when we shift gears and switch from God's authority of God's Word of Scripture, of the Tanakh, and the New Testament with Hadashah, to another source, and then we have spiritual confusion, okay?

We don't know whom to trust, we don't know what to believe, and you go out on Facebook, on YouTube, on the internet and you see, you have lots and lots of stuff going on and people don't know whom to trust anymore, okay? So I would say that number one, the Bible, that's the only Word of God, okay? We have many other Jewish and Christian writings out there, extra biblical sources, but they're not canonical and they were not inspired by the Holy Spirit. So I would highlight the first one, the first kind of foundational question of the Scripture, God's Word. Right, and in the five categories that are laid out, and this declaration is rich in Scripture. By the way, just for your own study, it's very helpful to look at Scripture, to systematize what you think and understand, to look at where errors are creeping in more, and of course, you know, we each have our own movements that we're part of. I'm in the Evangelical Church and the Charismatic world as well, so in the Charismatic world you can have the, you know, the Holy Spirit said this, this, this, this and it doesn't get tested by Scripture and we just believe all these fantasies, and then the Messianic Jewish world are the most a part of that, and we can have, as Egal was mentioning, other Jewish traditions and somehow that becomes equal to the Bible, and then Evangelicals just kind of slipping into a culturally relativistic way of reading Scripture so the Bible loses authority.

So each of us has our own sphere where we walk and live and see different areas creeping in and then just through Internet and other things, everything just gets shot out to the whole world. But the five areas that are broken down are, one, the Bible, two, the unity of God, three, Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, four, salvation, five, Israel and the church. And again, in all of these statements, they're rich in Scripture and I think you'll find it edifying educational to read this, go to BibleApologist.org and then click on declaration. And when we come back, I want to dig into this more, look at some other areas where false doctrine is rising within the church. In other words, things that are heretical. We can have our differences, different views about the end times, different emphases about styles of ministry and things like that. We can even differ on gifts of the Spirit, etc. But there are foundations from which we deviate to our own destruction. We deviate from these foundations and we're no longer in the faith.

We are now in cult or false doctrine or heresy or deception. So, we'll talk about that some more. And then, Igor has online classes that he's been teaching in different settings for years that might really be of interest to some of you because he's a wonderful mentor and teacher who loves the Word, loves the students. So, we'll let you know about that as well.

Maybe take some calls. So, if you want to ask us anything about any controversial biblical doctrinal point, verse, give us a call at 866-348-7884. We will be right back. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I'm speaking with Professor Igor German, a colleague of mine, Russian, Israeli, now American, Canadian, Jewish believer in Jesus. He's taught at a number of different seminaries, universities, has specialized online classes as well. And when you write into our ministry with Jewish-related questions in particular, you get responses from Igor, which he then copies to me.

So, I'm seeing the questions coming in, the answers going out, so we are in regular contact. But himself coming out of Jehovah's Witnesses and other cult background, seeing so much error, misunderstanding in the body, it's really burdened him not just to teach the Word, but to teach against error. Not just to educate academics in the Bible and people training for ministry, but to say to all believers, hey, we need to strengthen our theological foundation, strengthen our roots, to read the new apologetics declaration that he and a colleague have worked on for over a year, go to BibleApologist.org, check out the website in general for the resources there, join this international community of those with apologetics hearts and minds, and read the declaration, and then if you agree with it, go ahead and sign it. Igor, as a Russian, Israeli, Messianic Jew, you have access to sources, discussions that many of us wouldn't. When things are happening, say, in the Russian believing world, then I have to rely on you and others to give me information because I don't read or speak or understand Russian. On the one hand, there has been an amazing explosion of the gospel among Russian Jews. Many, many, many have come to faith in Jesus in the last, what, 20, 30 years in particular.

I don't know the exact numbers, but it's been amazing. Yet, you have some concerns in the midst of that, which often happens in new movements, that there's good but often lacks of foundation. So what's happening in those communities? Oh, yeah, Dr. Rowan, it's a great question.

We could spend a whole hour just discussing this. But kind of summarizing this in a nutshell, I can say that the situation in the Russian speaking, Messianic Jewish world is really concerning. And it's not just my opinion, I think so, but there are many other leaders within the Russian speaking, Messianic Jewish movement, who see and are aware of the fact that some key leaders are deviating from the biblical truth.

And I can give you some examples. For example, some Messianic Jews, specifically some leaders of congregations, they don't want to affiliate themselves with other believers who are non-Messianic. So I do see there is a real issue of lack of unity. There are schisms within the body, lack of authority and unity, okay?

So that would be a major area of concern. Another area would be lack of discipleship as an archaeological resource. Since it's a new movement, we don't have many qualified Bible teachers. As a result, we have people who are self-taught and they bring on different geological ideas and teachings they find out there without discerning, without studying deeply into those matters. As a result, people are deceived. The leaders are deceived and the followers are deceived.

So I would say that there is a growing need of really good solid geological resources for the Russian speaking believing community as well as qualified leaders. In terms of geological questions, I would say that unfortunately in recent years, more and more voices are heard against the full divinity of Yeshua Hamashi of Jesus Christ. You have teachers who teach that Jesus is just a man filled with God's presence and nothing more. So basically it's not much different from the heresies that we just mentioned previously, all those cults. And this is what you see within the movement, which is the Jewish remnant of believers. And it really breaks my heart to see that almost no one voices his voice against this, addresses this dichotomies with love and humility, but at the same time, biblically and in a way that is not compromising.

Let me just jump in for a moment. And what often happens is that we go from one extreme to another. In other words, when you read church history as a Jew, you're shocked. And you're shocked to see how Jews were demonized and persecuted by Christians over the centuries.

And you're shocked to see it in the Catholic church and in the Protestant church. And you're shocked to see how the church separated itself from Jewish roots and then many of its doctrines as they developed, developed in such a way, say, through Greek philosophy and things like that, that they become almost unrecognizable compared to where they started in Scripture and with Jewish background. And sometimes for a Jew coming to Jesus, they have to understand, okay, I'm not joining the Christian church as I've known it.

I'm not leaving being Jewish. And sometimes they then reject the real part of the body because they have such a bad feeling about quote Christianity and Christians that they want to tell the Jewish community, no, we're not part of that. So we miss out on that deeper unity we have as Jew and Gentile and Jesus. And then the way some have stated the Trinity over the centuries or perhaps in other settings where you have iconography and worship of physical images or bowing down before physical images or exaltation of Mary and many Messianic Jews want to emphasize, no, we believe in one God, one God only, but then it swings the other way to the denial of Yeshua's deity.

So this is what often happens. You know, things swing one way or the other and that's why it's so important to not be reactionary but to step back, say, okay, what does Scripture say? What does Scripture say? And then not to despise centuries of studying the Word, you know, as if we got to recreate everything now, only what we think and believe is true and we don't have anything passed down. In the American Evangelical Church, which is a very different setting than, say, Russian Jewish believers, what tendencies concern you right here in America, English speaking, Evangelical Christians, we're Bible people, we're Bible people, but you see a lot of things that concern you here as well. What would be at the top of that list for you?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, there are many, Dr. Brown. And there are things that are already mentioned. For example, I see that recently there is a growth of many Christians doubting the inerrancy and inspiration of the Bible. Even within the Evangelical, conservative circles, you find Bible theologians and pastors saying, yeah, it's the Word of God, but it's not really God's Word, and there are other ideas that they try to bring in in order to accommodate themselves to our spiritual lack of foundation.

Basically, we live in a very postmodern era, and unfortunately the Church is getting into this wrong direction of doubting its own foundation. Another thing that I see, another issue that is within the Evangelical Church is the rejection and inspiration, or actually belittling the importance of the Hebrew Bible. And this idea that kind of in the Hebrew Bible we find a kind of idea of two gods, a very dualistic, pagan idea.

In the Old Testament we have this angry God, judging God, and in the New Testament, oh my goodness, we find this kind and permissive God by the name of Jesus Christ. And again, it's so much contrary to the truth because the Bible is one Word, and there's only one true, living God, the God of Israel, Yahweh, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, not two gods, okay? What else I would like to emphasize, what I see as issues within the Evangelical Church, we see this doctrine known as the kenosis, a doctrine, actually, it's a misinterpretation of Philippians 2, where some pastors teach that when Jesus came down to earth, when he got incarnate and he was born to Mary, he actually lost some of his divine qualifications.

He was in heaven, he was God, son of God, second person of the Godhead, but when he came down to earth, he was not fully God, okay? So I do see this as a deviation from the biblical truth. And you find also various forms of pseudo-spirituality, occult, paganism, coming into the Church nowadays, you have the Kabbalah teaching, you have prayers for the saints, Scientology, New Age, Reiki, you have so many forms, yoga, even Christians practicing yoga and other things that are really, really demonic in nature, and not many pastors are saying that, guys, you're on the wrong path, you're either with the God, with the Lord, with God's Word, or you are with the other world, with the dark powers, okay? I see that another key issue is a teaching that God does not require believers to follow the moral laws established in the Bible, okay? And Dr. Brown, you have addressed it so many times, hyper-grace.

I see this as a real issue in our time. Yeah, so all that to say as I just jump back in, you know, I mentioned one particular sphere that Egal would be especially conversant with as a Russian messianic Jew himself, and you think, wow, there are problems there, let's look over here where we live, English-speaking evangelicals, and then, of course, charismatic world, I've written whole books on that, most recently Playing with Holy Fire, a wake-up call to the Pentecostal Charismatic Church, where there's just doctrinal looseness and substituting contemporary revelation for scripture, so we need to dig deeper. It's an age in which there's a lot of biblical illiteracy, and we have, you know, I just pick up my cell phone here, and I've got, I don't know how many Bible translations available at the, just, you know, touch my finger on it, there it is, and you can set up a plan to read the Bible, you know, through once a year or once every six months or whatever you want, and boom, the verses will come up, and then you've got, here's, you know, memorized history, we've got so much access, and yet we've got more biblical illiteracy than we've seen, really, probably in centuries, you know, since the Bible's been widely available. So, that's why I'm encouraging you to go to BibleApologist.org, BibleApologist.org, check out the resources there, but by all means, read the Declaration, see if you agree with all of it, see if you agree with the concerns stated and the positive statements of what we do believe and hold to, and if so, go ahead and sign it, share it with friends and colleagues. When we come back, I want to grab a couple of phone calls, so if you're holding, we'll get right back to you on the other side, and then just let you know about some of the classes at the Esau Bible Center, led by Professor Tromon. We'll be right back. It's the Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us on the Line of Fire. Boy, just a few more minutes to chat.

I can't believe time's going by so quickly, but so much to discuss doctrinally, biblically, and well, let's see, we may have time for a few questions. 866-34-TRUTH. Before we go to the phones with my guest, Professor Egal German, if folks want to find out about your online classes, and these are serious academic classes, they're classes in Hebrew language, different subjects, names of God, different things you've taught, and I know you're not just a systematic teacher, but you're very devoted to your students. Where's the best place to go to find out about online classes that you're currently teaching? Yes, so my website is yessodbiblecenter.com.

Yessodbiblecenter.com. Yessod Bible Center is my advanced online theological institute where I offer classes in biblical studies and Jewish-Christian relations. So I have a class coming up very soon. It's biblical Hebrew 101.

It starts next month, July 11th, so feel free to check it out and sign up for the class. Ah, all right, friends, all of you who've wanted to learn biblical Hebrew, here's a way to actually do it online with a living professor who not only reads the Bible fluently in Hebrew but speaks modern Hebrew fluently. Yessod, that's Y-E-S-O-D. Yessod is foundation in Hebrew. Y-E-S-O-D. So yessodbiblecenter.com or.org?

You can try both and both are good. Okay, so check this out. Starting in July, a class in biblical Hebrew. Yeah, what a great opportunity for you. All right, let's grab some calls here. We'll start with Joseph in Stevenson Ranch, California. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hello, Dr. Brown. Thank you so much for having me. God bless you.

God bless. Yeah, so my question is, and I know you've addressed the issue of preterism in the body, but this question in relation to that, and a little bit more specifically, is how should we fellowship not only in ministry but also in, you know, just general fellowship with those who hold that view? And just to frame it a little bit, I know that we, you know, we have the differences within the body of, you know, premill, amill, pre-trip, rapture, post-trip, and those generally, you know, we don't want to divide on those issues, but one thing that relates those together, of course, is the future return of Jesus.

Yes. Whereas preterism and hyper-preterism is kind of outside that, in that, you know, you know, especially with hyper-preterism where all is completed, we're in the thousand-year millennium, Satan is bound, we don't have anything, you know, we're in the kingdom now, kind of, how should we, you know, when it comes to specifically ministry? Because I'm seeing this spring up. Yeah, so let's focus on what would be called full preterism that says that all of biblical prophecies are already passed, that the return of Jesus has already taken place, that we have already been resurrected spiritually, that we are in the new heavens and the new earth. So not partial preterism that says many of the prophecies were fulfilled with the destruction of the temple in the year 70, but that there is still a future resurrection and future return of Jesus, but full preterism that says there is no future return of Jesus, there is no future resurrection of the dead, we are already in the new heavens and the new earth. Egal, in your mind, does that cross the line into heresy and these people we should be witnessing to bring them to the Lord as opposed to trying to fellowship together?

Yeah, it's a great question, Dr. Brown, and thanks also to our friend who called this question. I would say that yes, preterism is this kind of a doctrine that actually streets us of the foundation, our blessed home, right? We read this in Titus chapter 2, that we await the return of the Lord Jesus Christ, and we know that the Lord has not returned yet, so how can we teach that He already returned, that we already live in the kind of millennial kingdom, in the heavens and in the earth? Interestingly, the cult from which the Lord actually rescues me from, the JW cult, they are actually treacherous. They're actually treacherous because they don't believe in the future, back and coming of the Lord Jesus, Yeshua, they teach that He's already returned in the year 1914. Right. So I would say that this goes back to the Adventistic doctrine of William Miller, with his false prediction of the year 1844, that kind of the Lord returned in 1844, it never happened, and then they invented their investigative judgment doctrine within the seventh Adventist Church. Right. And here we have the JW and many other groups, even within the evangelical world, and even within the messianic order to find some who hold to treacherous theology, and I do see this as a serious error as a deviation from the biblical doctrine.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. Hey, Joseph, thank you for the call. So there are Christians who are amillennial, who believe there is a future return of Jesus, but we go from there into the eternal age, that there's not a thousand-year millennial kingdom, so that we are, that the millennium is a spiritual reign, but they are not denying future physical resurrection, they are not denying future return of Jesus, it's a debate over the millennium. A full Preterist is saying, to be clear, we are in the new heavens and the new earth, that death has passed, that we are spiritually resurrected, and that there will not be a physical resurrection or a physical return of Jesus. So yes, Egall and I are saying that's, that's heretical. That's not a dispute between brothers, that's, that's a heretical view.

All right, well, big question, but we'll try to tackle it. Robert in Central Coast, California, welcome to the line of fire. Hello, Dr. Brown. Dr. Egall German, can he hear me?

Yeah, yeah, yep. Your ministry connected me with him, and we emailed one another for a few times a week for a couple months. He helped me. I'm in this traditional Jewish chat room, I'm a Gentile Christian guy that knows nothing about Judaism except what I've learned on YouTube from answering Jewish objections from you, and he exhorted me to stay in there and persevere, and they haven't kicked me out yet.

Really? I just wondered if Dr. Egall German remembers, don't need Christ, the owner of this room who I'm trying to witness to, and we prayed for him. Does that ring a bell with you, Egall?

Yes, yes, yes. Hi, Robert, it's so good to hear from you, buddy. Yeah, so listen, this is what my colleague Egall does, and again I see the correspondence back and forth, and I'm able to interact here and there, but because so many questions come into our ministry, it's impossible for me and even my in-house team here to answer a fraction of them.

So Egall is not just teaching at different schools and with his own online classes. Again, go to yesodbiblecenter.com. Go there, find out about classes you can take directly with Professor German, but he's answering questions that are being sent in on a regular basis. I've heard this, Todd is a true Jewish background here, or I'm interacting with a rabbi, has this objection or question, and so he does a masterful job of coming up with all kinds of great online resources, and go here, check this out. So Robert, thanks, thanks for the call.

I know you've got larger question about best ways to show Jews that Jesus is the Messiah. We love to spend whole hours on that, but thank you for calling in. Let's try, well, one more call. We go to Mary in Des Moines, Iowa. Welcome to the line of fire.

What's your question for me or Professor German? I'm wondering what in the world would they have thought because I thought according to the Old Testament and maybe they knew, God doesn't tempt us. So what would that mean to the disciples at that time? Right, so if they have this prayer, lead us not into temptation, what would that mean? All right, Ego, we've got less than two minutes, but first, is it a Hebrew way of saying to pray against the negative? In other words, the idea of don't lead us into temptation, is that a Hebraic way of expressing things?

Definitely, definitely, right. So in Hebrew, it sounds as Al-Tabi-Ani-Lei-Re-Nisayon. It's from the prayer of Yeshua in Matthew chapter 6, so it's definitely a very Jewish way of addressing our heavenly Father, and it's very much consistent with the biblical truth revealed to us in the Hebrew Bible. So we don't see God as tempting the people of Israel, but we do see God trying the people of Israel, for example, in the book of Deuteronomy, the book of Devarim, we have several references where the Lord speaks with Moses, and he says that he tried, and we have the root, nasa, nun, tamahe, to try, but not to tempt. So I do see that there is a theological difference between trying and tempting within that word.

Got it. And again, Mary, it's a great question, but we are, by saying don't lead us into this, we're also saying, Lord, lead us away from this. So you're praying against the negative. Isaiah 54, 17, for example, in English we say, no weapon formed against you will succeed. In Hebrew, it's every weapon formed against you will not succeed.

And then again, the question of testing versus temptation. A lot to unpack, but we're out of time. Thank you for the call. Hey, friends, I think you've seen that my friend, Egal Jerman, is a great person to learn from.

Check out his classes at yesodbiblecenter.com, or dot org, y-e-s-o-d, biblecenter.com, and then check out the Apologetics Declaration at bibleapologist.org. Hey, my brother, we'll have to do this again. Great talking to you. Thanks for joining us on the air today. Thank you, Father. You enjoy it. God bless you so much. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.