He Went from He to She and Back to He

He was a married man when he decided he had to be a woman, had sex change surgery, to his lasting regret. He tells the story today. That's 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Friends, last week on October 20th, after much, much anticipation, the important movie, In His Image, was made available to the public. You can watch it at InHisImage.movie.

You can watch it for free. Someone tweeted me back the other day after watching it and said, I believe it's the most important film out today. It tells the true story about what it means to be created in the image of God, male and female.

He created us. It deals with compassion with questions about sexual orientation and gender confusion. One of the testimonies featured prominently in this documentary is that of Walt Heyer. He was 42 years old. He was married, father, corporate executive. When he decided he could not take the conflict he was living with anymore, had what is called gender reassignment surgery, lived as a woman for 8 years, and then realized that the deepest issues in his life had not been dealt with. He had a life-changing encounter with the Lord and has recovered his male identity for the last 30 years and been married for 20 plus years. He just yesterday turned 80 years old and yet is active, rather than slowing down, is giving himself to help those with gender confusion.

We'll tell you about some of his books and resources. Joining me today on the Line of Fire, Walt Heyer. Walt, thanks so much for coming back on the air with us. Thank you, Dr. Brown.

It's a pleasure to be on and talk about this absolutely fantastic movie that everyone that listens to the show today needs to watch. Alright, so Walt, you're 80 years old. You're obviously just chatting with you and watching.

You seem to be in vibrant health, full of energy. But why not just slow down? Why not just kind of step away from the controversies and just kind of have a nice retirement? Why are you still in the thick of one of the most controversial, difficult, thankless subjects of the day? Because it's the most controversial and thankless thing there is going on today and I want to be in the middle of it. Why?

What motivates you? Well, because I went through it and I see too much harm being done. You know, we have a website called sexchangeregret.com and I said the moment I stop getting people asking for help because they were wrongly diagnosed or they made a mistake and went through the surgery, the second those emails asking for help stop, then I will stop.

Got it. Alright, so before we get into your own story, and again, it's told powerfully, folks, on the video in his image. Before we do that, just to ask this question, how many people do you hear from at sexchangeregret.com? How often are people reaching out to you or through other means reaching out and saying I'm struggling or I have a family member that's struggling?

Yeah, it happens every single day. It's either a family member, a grandfather, a wife, or anybody that's gone through this is contacting me. Most of them have gone through it between three weeks and 30 years later.

I mean, the duration of time that this covers is like 30 years. So when you're saying going through this, you're saying people that actually try to change genders, saying I'm trapped in the wrong body and try to change their body to adjust with what they were feeling on the inside. What kind of stories do you hear? What are people thinking when they realize, say a young woman had a mastectomy and then comes a few years later, they wonder what in the world did I do? What kind of stories do you hear?

This is one of the best questions that people need to hear the answer to. And we work with literally hundreds, even thousands of people. And the one major thread that runs through this is abuse of some kind. Either emotional abuse, psychological abuse, physical abuse, or sexual abuse has occurred to these individuals sometime during their life. Either younger or middle-aged teens. Something happened to them that caused them to not like who they are and they don't want to be who they are.

And so by virtue of trying to identify as a transgender person, take on a different identity in a way to not feel the pain of what happened to them. So Walt, in your own life, as you've told your story probably thousands of times by now and in numerous documentaries, and again in the brand new one, In His Image, go to InHisImage.movie. And friends, a reminder, if you're a pastor or leader and would like to host a viewing of this so you can bring people together in your community, and then American Family Association will send you lots of supplemental material to use with it.

All that info is on the website, InHisImage.movie. So Walt, in your own life, what were the major things that you can point back to that produced this gender identity confusion in your own life? Well, the first thing that happened was when I was four years old, my grandmother, when she was babysitting me, who was a seamstress, made me a purple chiffon evening dress and put me in this dress and told me how cute I was, how wonderful I looked. And of course, at four years old, you have no idea what the consequences are going to be or that you're going to be on The Michael Brown Show 76 years later saying, you know, this caused me a lifetime of confusion and stress. Because when you take a young boy at the age of four, put him in a dress and affirm him as a little girl, what you're really saying, this is key, what you're really saying to that boy is that there's something wrong with you as a boy and you're better off as a girl.

So all of a sudden, you're shaming him about who he is and tell him you need to be somebody else. To me, and looking back at this, that's child abuse and it really needs to stop. Wouldn't it be so wonderful if grandma would have said how cute I was as a boy, how wonderful I was as a boy, and built that image up, but she didn't. She began to destroy it and tear it down. And she was just being a grandmother and for whatever reason, her background, seamstress, she didn't have malicious intent, right? She just didn't have understanding?

Right. She had, again, consequences. It's one of the big words that gets left out of this conversation is that she had no idea what the consequences were.

I didn't know what the consequences would be, but they've lasted a lifetime. Alright, so four years old, your grandmother puts you in a dress when she's babysitting and compliments how you look and obviously you like being affirmed and so that gets in there, but then there's something very traumatic that takes place after that. What happens next? Well, there were two events. One, my dad was just totally devastated when he found out his little boy was being dressed up by grandma because he didn't know for two and a half years this was going on. So he felt really betrayed and I could never go back to grandma's house without him being there. So he used a hardwood floor plank on me as a disciplinary tool. But I think in his mind what he was really trying to do was like a blacksmith pounding on hot iron. He was really trying to reshape me into a strong young man, but what really was happening was it was even causing probably more devastation inside me being hit with that hardwood floor plank.

But here's the key. The key is that purple dress became kind of known within the family and my uncle Fred at the time was a teenager and because of that purple dress he felt by the time I'm eight or nine years old that I was fair game to be sexually molested. So he began this process for a time of sexually molesting me. What ends up happening in your own life and then struggling with transgender identity issues is one thing. Others respond to sexual abuse differently. But can you just try to explain for all of us who can't relate to being abused personally what kind of trauma is that for a child?

In this case it's homosexual abuse you were subjected to, but what kind of trauma, how does it mess up that child's equilibrium, understanding of sexuality, relating to others, I mean what's the impact of it? Yeah the impact I think is really crucial and I hear this from people that I've worked with and what we try to do and this is so important for us to grasp is that I wanted to rid myself of my genitalia not because I wanted to be a female so much as I did not want to be sexually molested again. So if you can look at this from a standpoint of that idea of being taken off my genitalia was a way to protect myself from being sexually molested. So I felt and many other people that I've worked with felt that was a defense mechanism against being sexually harmed. Would that be similar to say a girl who is molested by a heterosexual so she's molested, abused by a male and then as she grows up she is repulsed by the idea of sexual romantic relationships with a male and instead gravitates towards relations with a female.

Could that also be part of that self-protection mechanism? It's absolutely connected to that exactly. Yeah alright so friends again inhisimage.movie is where you go to watch the movie it's free to go to Walt Hires website especially if you're struggling if you have questions for yourself or family member sexchangeregret.com and there's a question posted about intersex people we'll come to that in a moment but Walt let's fast forward now. You get married you start a family were you acting things out otherwise or struggling on the inside while living as a married man and father? Yeah sure that purple dress began to play out in my head every day I mean that image that affirmation really messes with who you are and you begin to think there was something wrong with me. I think that's a critical point there must have been something wrong with me as a boy so you begin to question everything you do and so it just continued throughout my going to high school. I mean I had girlfriends I dated girls one of my first girlfriends Lola Joy Phipps what a great name I mean that is I mean I still remember that name today she was great but I had I told her about what I was struggling with.

And that's the first person that I kind of shared it with and so she broke off the relationship so what I what I realized was that I had to keep this a secret it wasn't something that you could talk about this was in the nineteen fifties so. You realize that you're caught between this purple dress and acting out a real life because something happened that caused you this entire confusion about who you are and who you're going to be. Alright so friends we come back we're going to talk with Walt Hire about the decision he made to have sex change surgery what happened as a result of that if you yourself are struggling or want to call in on behalf of someone else you might be a parent dealing with a situation with your teenager you're not sure how to approach these things phone lines are open 866-348-7884.

It's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Well I'm sitting with Walt Hire courageous man serving the Lord standing in one of the most difficult areas to stand when you get ridiculed and mocked and attacked from every angle and yet he knows the help he's received in his life and wants to share that help with others. And for years I've pointed folks to his website to his books I'm holding in my hands here a transgender's faith by Walt Hire will be putting some other of his books on the screen as he interacts with me.

But I get questions on a regular basis from folks who say what do I do this situation is going on my household a child is this year this many years old and it's convinced they're transgender and there is a whole thing in their school pushing in a certain direction and what do I do how do I respond. So Walt has been one of the key resources and a man who's lived this out because of which he produced a website sexchangeregret.com and as he said in our first segment that he'll stop when the need stops. So Walt you're married with children an executive in a company you realize that if you go ahead and get sex change surgery things are going to change dramatically.

Did you know how much you would lose before you started before you went through that did you fully recognize how much you were going to lose in the process. No I had no idea what was going to take place and you know I'd been struggling with that purple dress doctor for from such a young age and you kind of want to get it resolved by the time I finally went to a gender therapist. Dr. Paul Walker in San Francisco he was the leading expert in the United States on diagnosing gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder and I was affluent enough where I could go see him at his office on Union Street in San Francisco and I knew you know because he was the expert he was going to give me the straight scoop and I went in there and met with him at 38 years old 39 years old right in there and he said well you're in I gave him my life story about being transgender. Being sexually abused being cross dressed all those things happen and certainly I was engaged in cross dressing from the time that that purple dress was on me until I went to see him so I was still engaging in these transvestite or transgender behaviors and so he diagnosed me right away with gender dysphoria and he said the solution for you is hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery. But you need to wait two years go through the hormone therapy and and so that's exactly what I did I was I was amazed at how quickly he came to the conclusion that I needed hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery and today this is a common occurrence. I'm just looking at the bio of this Dr. Paul Walker when Walt says that he was the leading expert here just on Wikipedia who's an American social psychologist and founding president of the HBIGDA the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association now known as WPATH the World Professional Association for Transgender Health in 1979.

He also served as director of the Janus Information Facility and so on then with with all of his his background here so he he was the man you couldn't pick someone better. He was my therapist right and so he had been around enough that your case just presented itself as no brainer this is you have gender dysphoria this is the solution. Exactly and again I think it's critical that I told him about you know the early childhood the other issues being sexual none of those things seem to impact him he just said well you need hormones and gender reassignment surgery so I went through the hormone therapy and in 1983 early 1983 after divorcing my wife in November of 82 I underwent gender reassignment surgery. I was an executive with a large automotive company and I notified them of what I'd done and they put all my things in a box marched me out to the gate and terminated me on my birthday.

And so I was gone I was done within a very short period of time I had been trying I was an executive I had a great job I tried jobs at BMW and many other corporations they would not touch me because I had gone through this procedure I ended up homeless and broke living in a park in Long Beach California laying in a pile of vomit and so that is the consequences. Alright so certainly there'd be many transgender activists and allies who'd say that's the whole problem that society rejected you and if your family had affirmed you or at least you couldn't be discriminated against on the job or this was not a mark against you for other employment then you never would have been homeless and finding yourself in a pile of vomit so that's the whole issue societal acceptance. What would you say to that I'm so glad you brought this up because the truth is the real problem was Dr. Paul Walker Dr. Paul Walker not identifying sexual abuse as a crime and as a reason to not give someone hormone therapy or put them through gender reassignment surgery sexual abuse causes people to be a great deal of difficulty being cross-dressed by a grandmother being affirmed all those things are reasons to be a victim of sexual abuse. All those things are reasons to not give somebody hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery not society the real problem was Dr. Paul Walker the real problem was this idea that you can actually change someone's gender which we know today is totally false no one is in the history of the world has ever changed a man into a woman or a woman into a man. All you do is feminize a man or masculinize a woman they don't change genders so what when we're talking about actual identity not of not perception I might perceive myself to be really fast and I can jump well and sing well and all of that may be false it's just my own perception so we're not talking about what someone perceives we're talking about reality. So biological sex you're saying that that is not mutable or changeable so we recognize that there's a phenomenon called intersex which would be well under 1% of the population. There's a biological or chromosomal abnormality where someone may be appears to be male and then begins to develop as female or has ambiguous or dual genitalia so that's that's an actual biological chromosomal abnormality and we recognize it as an abnormality just like God made the eyes for seeing but some people are blind and the ears for seeing and the eyes for seeing. So it's a disability and we work with folks to help them in the midst of that but in terms of changing from male to female what kind of genetic markers do we have in our body it's not it goes beyond the physical organs there's much more that marks this is male and female isn't there. Well there's a thing called inter morphology it's really what comprises every part of your body and you can't alter that no matter what you do cosmetically to make a man look like a woman your morphology is still the same in fact I challenged Dr. Paul Walker and Dr. Byber who did the surgery to prove in the California Superior Court that they actually changed me into a female and they wrote a document which I was published in the Daily Signal and they had to admit that hormones and surgery do not change anything on you to female. All it does is give you a mixed they use the word mixed or it stays male or your morphology is the same so I looked at this when I saw this document that that they put in Superior Court and I realized you know I hate to use the word but it's a fraud.

I mean they they really did surgical fraud right so when we think through the implications of this and by the way we want to take some calls so if you're on hold we want to get to some calls and and talk together as a family here with with Walt who's leading us through this. out and spent years researching studying interacting with people first hand so we want to be as practical as as we possibly can but well the anti is up now when you have say a boy that's six years old and you have a boy that's six years old and you have a boy that's six years old. And let's say no one can put no one can figure out what the trauma was wasn't abused wasn't put in the dress whatever okay nine six years old he's convinced he's a girl you go see the local psychologist psychologist says okay he has gender dysphoria so you need to start dressing him as a girl referring to him as a girl. Give me a new pronouns name new name send him to school as a girl then when he gets maybe around what 910 years old we need to give him hormone blockers to stop the onset of puberty and then get him ready for sex change surgery is as soon as he's older. That in your mind is nothing less than child abuse correct absolutely child abuse and sure a young boy you know I think all young kids are curious about their gender I mean they're looking at girls and boys and they're wondering and maybe they are willing to go to the hospital. They have a sister that's getting more attention than they are if they're a boy so they think well if I'm a girl I'll get as much attention as my sister many of these things play out in the household so. But the fact of the matter is no young person again knows the consequences of them talking about I feel like a girl or I want to be a girl I want to dress like a girl a lot of this now is happening because of TV shows because of things that kids are seeing and so I I actually feel like this is much more of a social contagion than anything else it's just sort of that whole thing where people have developed this idea where parents are approving them for this kind of procedures and they don't know what's going to happen to them down the road and we won't know for 15 or 20 years. Yeah so even even hormone blockers the potential of sterilizing kids for life so maybe they make a decision okay I'm not going to go ahead with six chain surgery they may have sterilized themselves already other procedures they certainly will and no matter what they do they will they will not actually become what they want to become so we want to address that the issue of comorbidity of other issues that can be at work in someone's life and if you say hey transgender surgery gender confirmation surgery this is not going to happen.

to me and my life is fulfilled and happy no one's arguing with your individual story that's between you and God let's just say for sure we know that God has a better way number one to make you whole from the inside out. And number two there are a whole lot of people who are hurting and they have nowhere to go many you never hear their story because they commit suicide before you get to hear it we'll be right back. It's The Line of Fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us today on The Line of Fire if you have a question for my guest Walt Heyer 866-348-7884-866-34 truth to find out more about Walt's story and for help with those struggling with transgender related issues go to sexchangeregret.com To find out about this wonderful new documentary that I had the honor of hosting that Walt plays a major role in with his testimony go to inhisimage.movie you can watch for free there. When I checked a few days ago it was well over 200,000 views already in the first five days so check it out for yourself inhisimage.movie. Pastors leaders host a screening at your church you get a lot of free resources with it as well we want to get this out as far and wide as we can absolutely free. Let's go to the phones with Dottie in Las Vegas welcome to The Line of Fire. Thank you Dr. Brown real pleasure to speak with you I enjoy everything that you're doing and well thank you so much for your testimony.

No thank you. I don't have a question for you Walt but I do thank you and I just wanted to validate to the parents out there of children younger children and even adult children who are struggling with this sexual identity issue especially transgenderism. That abuse really does play a big role or can anyhow. My husband and I are parents of a transgender adult daughter who we discovered when she was 22 through social media when she came out as she would call it.

I kind of call it going in because I think it's more hiding than it is actually coming out. She came out as transgender came out as a prostitute working legally in another county nearby and also involved in the pornography industry. And that was a dark day I will tell you June 8th of 2017 and she's 22 years old she's 25 now for three years the better part of three years. We took a stand to stand with her for her in a frightening way because the tendency is to succumb to shame and guilt being a Christian family whose daughter and son were raised in the faith and baptized and all that. A lot of fear of what are people going to say, what does that do to my ministry as a Christian coach and white counselor in my church. What does this do for, I mean how does this really shine Jesus to our unsaved family members. It was terrifying I am not going to lie. My husband took it a different direction it took him a few minutes, a few months I should say to really come to the point that he could get past his pain and his shock and his grief. But he did and so we were both able to stand with her in a loving way I believe Christ-like way where we could love her as she is where she's struggling just like Christ did for us and does for us and yet still stand against the belief that she is a man. And so we stood in our faith and we stood fearlessly and yet terrified if that makes any kind of sense.

A lot of travail on this end in private and I came across actually a lot of information to do with you Walt and also an excerpt from something that Laura Perry had written in her book Transgender to Transformed. And things were resonating and I'm like wow I'm not the only person we're not the only people going through this and I have Laura's book I went through it well and I marked it up like a textbook and have connected with her sense and so to see in his image out there I am thrilled. I'm utterly thrilled and I can hardly wait to see it totally in its fullness and also to encourage my church to do a screening. Donnie when you watch the thing that will stir you the most in Laura's testimony so here was a young woman felt the only way to find wholeness and peace was as a man had a full mastectomy had a hysterectomy after 10 years of living as a man found homeless in the Lord and now has regained her identity as Laura and her smile is very beautiful and genuine. Very moving story to watch but the role that her mom who was a legalistic Christian did not start where you're starting with that kind of attitude God had to transform her first and then she and the prayer group these older women. They prayed Laura into wholeness in the kingdom image she was at so you get to see them all in the movie you know it's it's it's quite dramatic but when Laura hit her lowest is when she found all these cards from these women who had been praying for for a period of years. And it was her lifeline so Dottie we want to call on on on our viewers and listeners to be part of your prayer team to pray for your daughter's complete wholeness where is she at right now.

Well like I said for the better part of three years we were in relationship we were doing things together we were Marco polling at the video chat app that we were doing even when she was at the brothel we would Marco pull it to each other and her 25th birthday this last February. She decided to a stranger self from I believe that's because the testosterone that she's been injecting herself with since I think November of last year was changing her voice and changing her her brain because the hormones really do have a huge effect and I think changing her personality. She could not I think there's something in her that could not endure being around us while she was doing that and I think that there was something about the way that we were shining shining such a strong light of love of Christ for her that she could not do it and. And continue to do it in that light I think it really shown that that makes that make sense since what would you like to say to Dottie well I think you know you talked originally when you started talking Dottie about this section of abuse and what's interesting I think when you watch in his image you will notice the four people in the movie were all sexually abused Laura my son.

And so these this is such a great issue and people don't realize that when somebody sexually abused something's happened to them and it's going to cause them to. Go through some kind of trial and and you're experiencing that with your daughter and we will certainly be praying for her to be redeemed and restored because it's certainly possible. And that's where my hope lies in that possibility in your testimony even after all those years in Laura's testimony even after all those years and all the physical ways that you tried to get that that whole field to get that wound covered to get to hide it just it is so such a spring of hope for us. Because we know God is not done yet yes yes and Dottie as God called me as someone with with no background in this never struggling with sexual issues never struck in terms of of homosexuality in terms of gender questions but called in to help and to support and to be a voice. So in the process I've I've gotten to meet and hear from many who are transformed and and I distinctly remember some calls where the lifeline was the prayers of the mother coming out of homosexuality or something else and they would call in so father we we together as your family. Stand with Dottie and her husband on behalf of their daughter their girl the little girl is now twenty five and struggling Lord pour so much light and love upon her that she will come running to you for help or grace save her set her free transform and may we hear the testimony in the days to come. In Jesus name amen Dottie thank you for calling and friends join with Dottie and her husband in prayer you got you got an army that's going to be praying Walt.

There are some other calls I want to get to but first your own story. You you divorced your wife you're obviously alienated from your children you've lost your job you've lost everything you hit rock bottom you live as a woman for eight years but aside from the outward things the loss of everything you haven't found inward wholeness. How how do you come to find homeless and go back to being Walt what happened. Well that that's a real journey and and that that wholeness you know it's so funny about you if you watch each of us in the movie in his image you'll see that it was kind of a subtle encounter things took place over a period of time but the turning point was kind of subtle. You know in my situation it was just prayer and in in Stevens story he was sitting on a couch next to somebody and Laura was looking at cards I mean you know we we think of these things how does someone come to this point it takes a long time for me. I was actually deep in prayer and I had been struggling for many years with this but in that prayer and you can read about it in a transgender's faith where the Lord actually appeared to me during the prayer. And he was there reaching out to me to redeem and restore my my life and and that's when my life changed so you know it's it's not as dramatic as you think but it does take a long time to get there so I had a lot of people I mean I went to church in Southern California. And that was an interesting as a woman as a woman and signed into the book and all the ladies are gathering around me and I'm like this is great and the pastor's wife sit next to me and and he got up and gave the sermon and I thought this is great and I'm leaving his Laura in my red high-heeled pumps thinking I'm hip slick and cool and I get out there and have my coffee and donut at the table I'm going okay I'm in this is good so that afternoon I looked out my front window of my little condo and here comes the pastor walking down the walkway and I'm thinking this guy's gonna welcome he's gonna hug me saying how great it is to have me in the church he knocked on the door and I opened the door up he stepped in and said we don't want your kind in our church. And I laughed I literally laughed and I looked at him and I said oh okay what kind do you want amazing all right Walt does have us encounter with the Lord this life-changing we'll hear about it and get your calls to stay right here. Thanks friends for joining us on the Line of Fire super important subject as we talk about people loved by God going through various kinds of struggle don't confuse struggle with gender identity with sexual orientation as it's called with homosexuality there in many cases most cases largely related but to find out more about those who struggle maybe yourself for contemplating sex change surgery you're on hormones are apparent wondering what did you go to sex change regret.com.

Sex change regret.com and everyone watch the movie in his image dot movie in his image dot movie it's free you'll want to watch it and share it with as many as you can. So Walt how do you finally get to that place of wholeness in the Lord and recover your identity as Walt not Laura. Yeah well you know this was through a different church I went to church I sat down with a pastor before I ever went to church on Sunday again because I didn't want that same thing to happen. And so I sat across from Pastor Jeff and I looked at him and I said Pastor Jeff are you going to try to change me back to Walt when I come to your church and he he's a big guy and he rolled back in his chair and he says no he says I'm not going to try to change him that's God's job. He says I know my job that's to love you so you know so that process began I think right there with those kind words and I realized that I was in an encounter not with Jeff for the church or anything else.

But the Lord Jesus Christ and I knew that I was going to focus on him I didn't know how long it was going to take but I was willing to commit my life to him and then spend time with him and that's when my life was transformed during that prayer. But most interesting is that what I have found is like in my life I was not homosexual I didn't have same sex attraction. What I found is in working with the hundreds even thousands of people mostly men that have been married adult men they're suffering from things like words they've never people have never heard of like auto gynophilia transvestic fetish disorders.

And these are disorders that are such that you're not engaging in sexual relations with another person you're self gratified gratified by auto gynophilia or transvestic fetish. So you know these are these are ideas where people think people used to send me books all the time how to get over homosexuality I'm not homosexual I have had so few homosexual men contact me and ask for help they're all heterosexual men that had something happened and either had body dysmorphia or they had dissociative disorders or bipolar disorders schizophrenia they had some psychological emotional or sexual disorder that was never properly addressed before they diagnosed him with gender dysphoria. So these are the term you used earlier comorbidities we need to begin to address these comorbidities we could actually cease doing surgery and hormone therapy on many of these people and deal with their comorbidities instead of trying to change their genders which they will soon regret and that's why the suicide rates are so high because they're misdiagnosing these individuals right and even after surgery even in environments that are trans affirming the suicide rates are dozens of times higher than the normal rates because the problems still remain and well I guess you had maybe a short period of time of like this is it I'm home I found my way but but that went away huh. Yeah I did you know especially right after I had the surgery I'm still in the hospital you feel like okay I finally made it I got rid of the all of the things that were happening that that voice in my head that was telling me that I was born wrong and that now I'm fixed right so you know I went through this and I got a good job working for the FDIC working for the federal government I worked at the post I had good jobs but what happened was that I realized that you cannot change me into a woman and that began this process where I challenged the doctors and the surgeon and really can you do this and since then the people who write me about having regretted doing this one of the words that they use all the time is I realized that they did not change me. Hmm got it got it all right let's uh let's go the phones in Charlotte North Carolina Stacy thanks for calling the line of fire hi I'm just really just thankful that you are addressing this topic because I feel like it's something that as a church body we don't know how to address and as a clinician who is a Christian we don't always operate in love because we don't understand what everyone is feeling and what they're walking through and at the root cause there's always usually a root cause I find as a clinician there's something that has happened usually for most clients why they're having some form of confusion and they don't know how to address it and as clinicians we are trained to tell people however they identify you affirm them you always affirm but there's not a lot of emphasis on addressing the root cause of why the why these feelings and thoughts came about or why this person's identifying in this way and some a lot of statistics show there's trauma and abuse usually affiliated with that but we don't address it so I just think this is really great for people who want to know that there is hope and there's freedom and eventually usually it comes through Jesus and our identity and him but we are not trained or taught to bring this into therapy and Stacy there's pressure against you bringing it in you know transgender activists effectively got the DSM five changed so the diagnostic and statistical manual so that you change definitions no longer gender identity disorder because it's not a disorder and then you had transgender activists push Kenneth Zucker out of a job he was probably the foremost gender specialist in in Canada and and he you know often said yeah there's successful results and this was not from a fundamentalist Christian viewpoint he was just treating people where they were and there's pressure think of this pressure on you as a trained clinician, not to do what is best for your clients, due to a political or cultural stance that is so unfair. It is so terribly unfair to you and to those that come to you so God bless you.

May the Lord use you and Walt over to you. Yeah, you know, this is my favorite subject because when I have someone who contacts me. The very first thing I began to do is try to find out what happened that caused them to begin to behave this way and what I find is they just had something where there's as I said before sexual abuse emotional abuse psychological abuse something happened as the clinician said something happened that caused them to engage in this behavior and once I can help them identify what that was in 100% of the time in the people I work with. They can tell me what happened to them. And when they find that out.

They begin to reflect on cheese I never needed to do this surgery. This was a mistake. And so that's a key element, and we need to be focusing on the comorbidities and what happened that caused them to not want to be who they are.

Yeah, and Stacy when you're able watch in his image again it's in his image movie and shoot us a note let us know what you think of it or shoot a note over to Walter his website six change regret calm in his image dot movie love to hear your thoughts on it Stacy and may God bless you Walt I'm just looking at a post that was put up on Facebook. We have a daughter who recently went her way to remove her precious breasts my wife is devastated background her biological dad was a drug addict, and it goes on and just painful painful story. Now exactly. You may say I'm trans that's not my story. Well, it is the story of plenty others.

It is the story plenty others. And are you saying we shouldn't help them. We shouldn't speak to them.

And is anyone arguing that it's better to put a child through hormone blockers, then sex change surgery then hormones for the rest of life, that's better than trying to help them from the inside out without body mutilation and hormones for life. There's a call from Seattle. I apologize for not being able to bring on the air time is short. But what about the pronoun question. Well, do we comply if I know someone for 20 years, and now john says he's Jane. Do I call him Jane. Do I call him she.

What's the best way to well, you know, everybody's going to deal with this one in their own way I had a friend, Bill who I worked with for over 30 years Bill was my closest friend. I changed to Laura and I went to Bill and I said hey Bill you got to start calling me by my female pronouns you got to call me Laura, and you know this is the way it's got to be and Bill looked at me and he says, Okay, he says I got it. I'm just going to call you whacko.

So, what was really kind of funny to me because I laughed at it. And to this day even after I did transition bill calls me whacko. So I think we get way caught up in these pronouns, and they become much too big of an issue. So, I have found that you can actually talk to somebody for a long period of time, like I have with you. You don't have to use pronouns. You know, the only time use a pronoun is when the person isn't in front of you're talking about.

I talked to her the other day, something like that when you're facing somebody you don't really use pronouns right and again. Everyone's going to work this out differently. The key thing is to merge love and truth together. If you can merge love and truth together, you'll help everyone that you're dealing with. Again, friends, go to sexchangeregret.com, especially if you're struggling support the work that Walt Heyer is doing check out some of his books and holding in front of me a transgender's faith.

And then watch inhisimage.movie and share it with everyone you can. Walt, you've got a great legacy waiting for you. Just turned 80 years old. I believe you're going to see a lot of encouraging news in the years you have ahead of you. And then forever, you're going to meet people who will thank you for being a faithful witness. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I appreciate being on. God bless.