"Best of Lantern Rescue"

This is Chris Hughes with the Christian Perspective Podcast with Chris Hughes, where we encourage our listeners to engage the culture with Jesus Christ. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few seconds, so enjoy it, share it.

But most of all, thank you for listening to the Truth Podcast Network. That's another reality. So once we move them, what we do is we rent them an apartment for three months and give them food for a family. And family units are, they're big. They're eight to ten people. They're not two or three. They're always, you know, multiple children, those kind of things.

It can be even more because it can be 20 people, you know. We lean on Shaheen and help to feed these people in these months. The difficulty is a lot of them left a dangerous situation where their life was, their houses, all kinds of situations, threatening from the Taliban to a place where they're hoping they're going to get to get to move further because of their applications or their process or their visa situation.

But reality is they're just backed up. Welcome to Lantern Rescue, a ministry program dedicated to bringing light into the darkness of human trafficking. It's time to light the way to freedom. This is Lantern Rescue. We tell the stories, we talk about rescues, and we empower you to do something about it.

William Wilberforce once said, let it not be said I was silent when they needed me. This is Lantern Rescue. Oh, welcome to Lantern Rescue.

And we got a great episode for you today. Recently, Mark and Wren and Mark's wife got to attend a seminar in Wren. Can you kind of fill us in on what you what you guys learned?

Yeah, definitely. So we had the privilege to attend this really wonderful seminar in the south about CFAM, child sexual assault material. And human trafficking was the main focus of the of the event.

It was a week long event. And it went over, you know, stuff that law enforcement is doing and kind of reinforce the push that's been happening lately to really recognize certain crimes such as CFAM, which, for our listeners that haven't listened to all of our episodes about that, CFAM is the new words that we're trying to use for child pornography. CFAM stands for the child sexual assault material, rather. And that word is used to reflect that these are child pornography, what is traditionally known as child pornography, is sexual assault in 100% of the situations, and that children are not voluntarily doing this, pornography kind of has a tone to it that makes it sound like it is a choice.

So that's why that new word is being used. But beyond that, there has been a large push lately, and I've noticed a trend where law enforcement is taking a more active role in these CFAM cases. And we were able to attend this conference and get to hear everyone else's perspective and see great work that's going on around the country. So Jamie, you got to go.

And as Mark's wife, you know, you're seeing things from a completely different perspective. Were you excited to go? Can you give us some sense of what you experienced? Yeah, I was excited to get to attend, just to learn more on, you know, who all is trying to combat and how. And it's also encouraging to see brilliant people who are using their resources to try to save kids. So it was exciting in that way. Yeah, and I'm intrigued as well, Jamie, by this, you know, redefining sexual assaults with instead of pornography.

What were your thoughts on that? Well, yeah, that term's been around a little bit now, but it definitely defines what's really going on better. And that terminology is definitely better. Right, right. So it really is. And I, you know, it's encouraging. And so, Ren, what were some of the, again, you felt like law enforcement is taking a much more proactive role in this? Yeah, absolutely.

And, you know, for privacy purposes, we're not going to go into great detail about what happened in the conference. But the general overview is that law enforcement is taking a more active role. And I really think that that isn't because they didn't want to before. But I think the narrative has started to change in the world. If you look at the crime codes across the country, there was a point in time where spousal sexual assault, like raping your own spouse was not considered a crime. So crime developed and they changed.

And I think that the primary reason this is coming to the forefront more is that people are more willing to have conversations about this kind of stuff. It's very dark. CSAM is a very dark topic. It is not a fun thing.

No one goes into this field excited to work in CSAM. But it is so rewarding when you're able to see justice and when you're able to, in some of the situations able to actually find the physical victims that were anonymous in these images, and you're able to go and help them. That's just such a rewarding thing that law enforcement is able to do nowadays. And I think really, what's helped to change that narrative is just people being more open and honest about what this is. And part of that is changing the wording. It is, you know, it's even uncomfortable for me to say child pornography like that. So that word alone feels dirty. And it should.

It's a horrible thing. But CSAM, child sexual assault material, is so much more descriptive, and it's so much more accurate. And it gives the children justice in a different way. And I think that has helped to change the narrative. And that has helped open doors, just that small change. It's huge, but you know, changing the wording has helped to open the doors and make these conversations easier to have. And through that, through more awareness and transparency with this stuff, the law enforcement is more able to get the resources they need, they're more able to have the conversation with other organizations. What do you guys do? What can we do better?

This is what we do great. So it's really helped to open the door. And you wouldn't think like, oh, just changing the wording is going to make such a huge impact. But it really does.

In my opinion, you know, I can't tell you studies on this, but I truly believe that makes it easier for the conversations to happen. So Jamie, you know, this is probably one of the first types of that conference that you've ever attended. What are some of the thoughts that you had as you as you were there?

Yeah, it is my first time at one of these. Well, you know, I have some sad thoughts, and then I have some admonishing thoughts as a mother, I guess. Some of the sad thoughts I have, let's cover the bad first, I guess. Some of the bad thoughts I had first taking away from that was, this problem has always been around, you know, as sin entered the world, then the hearts of mankind was corrupted, and we've been monsters ever since.

So I mean, this has been around since the beginning of sin. But with the internet the way it is now, and everybody across the world is so connected, normally when we think of the word support group, we think of a good thing. But now these people who abuse children and then share their videos or their images with each other, they find support across the world. They find each other on the web, and so they support each other in that, well, there's somebody else like me. In fact, if I look at the numbers, there's a lot of people like me, so maybe I'm not so bad, because other people are doing it. A lot of other people are doing it, and so they find support across the web this way, whereas in the past before that, they would have felt more isolated and hopefully felt more like they were wrong. But now they don't have to feel that way so much.

They can give themselves an okay. So that is a sad thing. Another sad thing I found was that the government, you know, puts lots of money into stopping gun trafficking and drug trafficking, but there's very little put into CSAM. And like trafficking is one part, human sex trafficking is one part of CSAM, but there are these, you know, bad grandpas or bad dads or bad moms out there abusing their children just for the sake of sharing it with somebody else, and they're not necessarily making money off of it. So CSAM encompasses all the child sexual, you know, abuse material. And so that's another sad thing is that our government doesn't put a whole lot into stopping this when it is our children are our future and they're being destroyed.

So that's another sad thing. Now, the admonishing things I took away from it, we watched it on a video, and I know this has been said a lot of times, but just in case somebody's kid is listening to this, even if they're an older child, if someone is touching you or making you touch them in a way that makes you feel shame, that's not okay. Shame will oftentimes stop a kid from seeking help, and it's shame that's projected on them that they have not, you know, brought on themselves. So find a trusted adult and ask them to talk privately. It's not your fault, so don't be afraid to tell. I'm just saying that one more time as a mom. Secondly, the video we watched, it showed a girl who had probably accepted a friend request from somebody she didn't know, and I think kids across the border have been told, don't accept a friend request from somebody you don't know.

Kids still sometimes disobey and do it anyway. Some of them get by with it, and then some of them end up in a manipulative, abusive relationship with an imposter, and it showed this girl who, you know, she gets a text from this guy and she's like, not now, my mom's home. He's like, go to a private place. You know, he's manipulating her, saying if you don't, send me, say, news, then I'm going to tell your mom. Well, then she's in this trap.

You know, her mom hears her crying behind doors, but she's just like, I don't want to talk right now, mom, because she's too afraid to confess. What I want to admonish the adults with here is talk to your kids and let them know that if they have, you know, made this foolish mistake or they've gone against your wishes and accepted somebody, if at any point they find themselves in this kind of a situation that you won't be judgmental, because your rules are to protect them to begin with, and if they've already gone past that, they've already punished themselves enough by getting themselves into a situation. They're already being punished enough. All you want now is to help free them from that, and so they don't need to be punished anymore. They just need help getting out of it.

So if there's some way you can communicate that to your children that you are not there to punish them if they've already found themselves in a situation where they're being punished day in, day out by a dumb mistake, by a disobedience, they've already received in full and beyond what they deserve, what they deserve, quote unquote. Now they just need a hero to save them, and their parents, a teacher, whoever needs to make them feel comfortable enough to let them know that they will help them out and not further make them feel afraid. Wow. Yeah, wow. That is really, really helpful. I think we all need to hear that, even if we have grandkids or whatever the situation may be, nieces, nephews, like wow, several of mine are coming through my mind, like I got to have those conversations. Jamie, that is really, really helpful. Well, you can see we are, got a lot of great information coming off this conference, and we're going to be back in just a minute with much more Landon Rescue.

We'll be right back. Landon Rescue is a USA-based organization that conducts international rescue operations for people suffering from human trafficking. Landon specializes in sending former US special operation law enforcement and intelligence personnel to partner with host nations and assist them in creating specialized units to combat ongoing security problems, such as genocide, terrorism, and human trafficking.

As a nonprofit charity, they offer services free of charge to their host nations. Human trafficking has grown into the second largest criminal activity in the world, reaching an estimated $150 billion in annual activity. Landon Rescue has developed rapidly to combat trafficking. Landon operates through a trained international network in order to rescue women and children from sex and labor slavery and facilitates holistic aftercare services.

They're gearing up for operations right now, and you can go to lanternrescue.org to see how you can support them financially. The following program contains sensitive content. Listener discretion is advised. Well, welcome back to Landon Rescue, fresh off this conference with Wren and Jamie, Mark's wife, and just some unbelievable insights that we've gained already just as an audience. And so Wren, there's more to that that you wanted to include. Oh, absolutely. And everything that Jamie said was incredible and very accurate. You know, if there's something going on, even if you feel like you've already done something wrong and you're going to be in trouble, you won't talk to somebody.

I promise the right people in your life will understand and will give you the help you need. But going off of what Jamie said, these support groups that are out there, you can really be accurate. These people, you know, with the proliferation of the internet, these people are finding each other faster and in bigger groups. It's alarming.

The group size of people will get together for this. And one of the things I hear a lot is that it's not as bad because they're not actually touching any children. That is just complete BS. The effect on the children is the same. They're being touched by someone, they're being abused by someone, and the demand drives supply. So if you're not out there requesting these images, these people that are viewing this, they're not going to be as produced to the same level. So you might not be the one touching them, but by proxy, you essentially are. You are putting this demand out there for these images and for these children to be abused in these ways because it does something for you. So this whole idea that, oh, they didn't touch them, so they weren't as bad.

I don't buy it. I can't imagine most people do, but it's just something that really bothers me when I hear that. Yeah, and really it is. But it's actually helpful, I would think, to know to have those discussions, right? And as a mom, right, you see it in a little bit different perspective, right, than somebody who's dealing with the perpetrators, right, Jamie?

Right. I know that I've heard this before too from a child who had been abused. The perpetrator will make threats, like I'm going to hurt you or hurt your family, if you tell. So, Ren, there's some other angles to this that you see from really almost a legal standpoint, right?

Yeah, absolutely. So it's not just the perpetrator trying to make themselves seem less bad, but there's no touch stuff. But it's also something that can manipulate the children.

Because if they're sending, for example, a kid that has their own phone and they're essentially producing their own CSAM where they're being manipulated by someone, you know, go in the bathroom and take this image, do this, take this type of picture, that kind of stuff, they are conditioned to believe, well, I'm not actually physically touching you. This isn't assault. This isn't a sex crime.

This isn't, you know, whatever they might tell them. So that's another way for them to manipulate the kids is because they aren't being touched, they're not being physically assaulted. They don't necessarily understand that it's a crime. And they'll be manipulated into that.

And another thing that can happen is, when there is physical touch, when there is a physical interaction between a minor victim and someone that is trying to take these images of them or hurt them, sometimes they will coerce the victim into touching them, into touching the adult. And that'll give the minor victim a lot of guilt. They'll feel they did something wrong. They'll feel that they were participating in this.

And that's also not true at all. These children are not guilty of anything. They are innocent in this completely. And no matter what part they held in this, they are innocent and they will be treated as such.

And they can always come to law enforcement for help. Wow. Yeah.

And I think that's so helpful to know. And I find it, you know, just like in a way, scaring but scary, but also, I don't know, just kind of broad, that this kind of thing is just going on all over the world. Oh, everywhere. It's insane how the degree that this is happening here, it's in your county, it's in your, it's all the way in your town. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. If there's not someone physically being abused in your area and being used to create these images, someone in your town is probably viewing these images at the bare minimum. It is, it's rampant. It is rampant. And I know we've talked about CCM a lot on the podcast, but it is just such, it's such a huge issue and it can have such an impact. Any of these things can have such an impact on children and how they develop and their emotional state. And it's just, I truly believe that some people don't view CCM as egregious of a crime as it is because they believe there's, you know, no touch notion that they're, you know, no one touched them. And that's just not the case. You have to think about what's going to happen to them in the future and how that's impacted them now and how you are completely changing the trajectory of their lives by your selfish desires. And it is just so alarming to me.

Yeah. Another level of manipulation that they might use is, uh, is children are taught to obey their teachers. They're taught to obey their parents, their be good for grandma and grandpa, obey them, uh, obey your babysitter, do what you're told. And so then if the child's reluctant to, they get a bad babysitter, they get a bad grandparent, bad teacher, whatever, you know, the line goes down.

Anybody can be bad and do these things to a child. Um, and the child's reluctant to do it. Well, you're going to get in trouble if you don't obey me. You'll get in trouble if you do don't, if you don't do what you're told, I'm going to tell on you if you don't obey me. And so then the child is afraid and, you know, does what they're told. And so if there's a little child who isn't old enough to understand that that's not okay and that's not what they're good adults in their life and tend by saying that we want to be respectful of the good adults. If you have a bad adult in your life who's doing this to you, you don't have to obey them.

You need to find a trusted adult that you can tell that this is happening to you. Oh yeah, absolutely. It's, you know, and again, that's another great, great piece of helpful advice. Um, but Ren also, when you're looking at the legal aspects of this worldwide, it sounds like really those laws are changing and people are changing not just here in America, but it's helpful to know as you guys are going out in these other countries, the way that, that the world is now looking at this stuff. Yeah. So every country is very different and I wish we all had a very uniform system of this is what we consider system.

This is a crime here. Um, but the reality is obviously the age of majority, the age of consent is different in every country. Um, and, and not every country has, and not every culture really, cause the cultural buy-in is, is important. And we talk about that in other podcasts, but the cultural buy-in is, is so important because even in Canada, it's still important because even if you put the law on the books, is this culture going to enforce it? Uh, not every culture has started to recognize CCM as a crime.

That is a work in progress. Uh, and a lot of these CCM crimes originate in other countries that they know aren't necessarily going to prosecute, you know, countries far removed from us everywhere in the U S this is a crime that is not in question, but there are countries where it's not. And that doesn't mean that does not mean that if the image was produced in a country where it is not legal to do this and it is sent to you in a country where it is illegal, it still makes it illegal. You know, if you're viewing that image in the U S it is still CCM and it is still illegal just to dispel any, anything that might come from that. But not every country recognizes those as a crime and not every culture specifically is going to recognize this as a crime.

So that is something that is always a work in progress and the, and it really comes from the same issues that we had just discussed. You know, what, what, what is their view on touch, no touch? Do they view that as a crime? What is their age of consent in that country?

What do they view as issues? So it changes. But in America is very clear. I think it is very black and white to me.

Uh, you know, some attorneys might argue against that. Some defense attorneys might have a differing view, but it is the cultural buy-in and in America we can look at this and we can say this is a crime. Not everyone in the world is so blessed. So, um, you know, if we're asked to burn a prayer today, I would just really ask people to pray for, for the victims out there that aren't even seen as victims, victims in the world and other countries that are subjective of this on a daily basis and are not even held as victims.

They're just treated like this is normal and they don't even know they can get help. You know, I think, I think there's a lot to be said about what they're going through mentally and they're not even getting the resources they need. So yeah, that is an awesome prayer request really.

Um, and I, and I'm certainly going to be on, I mean, cause it's just, it's unthinkable in a lot of ways. Jamie, how about you as you came away from the conference? What were, what were you praying for? What would, could we join with you in prayer for? Well, we pray that our country puts more money behind hunting down those who would use children this way. We pray for other countries like Corrine said to develop better laws to protect their children, that there are more people that are capable of fighting that will join the fight.

I think those are all good requests. I pray also, like she says for the victims, there is a, there's a Bible verse and it might be a little hard to swallow, but in, in some ways to those who might be listening and can't get out or, or pray this over those who, who can't get out, there's a Bible verse that says, um, be not afraid of those who can touch the body, but can't touch the soul because even though our bodies and souls can be very connected and what affects our souls can affect our bodies and vice versa. If our soul belongs to the Lord, then no matter how much our bodies go through, our souls are still safe and in the end that's what's eternal.

And so I do pray for the victims worldwide that they hear of the love of Jesus and the love of Christ and that they, they put their trust in that and then they pray for their rescue and I pray for their physical rescue, but above that I do pray for their spiritual rescue. Now that's, that's just spectacular. Thank you, Jamie and thank you, Wren. What, what an episode and I, I think we all have our homework. Absolutely.

Do I have a second to say anything else, Robbie? You, go ahead. Um, so I just, just in closing, I'd just like to say that a vast majority of people that are abused, especially used to create CCAM images, never report. Um, it is a tragedy that in countries where people being used to create CCAM images do try to report in our school it's not a crime. That is a tragedy, but if you have ever been a victim of anything like this, even if you think it's too late, please contact law enforcement.

Please see if you can do anything. Um, we are praying for you and we hope that you find justice and find peace, but even if you think it's too late and you have been a victim of something like this, please contact law enforcement. Yeah, and even if you don't feel comfortable with that, feel free to come, you know, contact Land and Rescue right there at the links on the podcast. Well, thank you, Wren. Thank you so much, Jamie. What a, what a informative time it is.

Like you said, it makes us sad, but it gives us an idea of what God's doing. Yes, it is encouraging. There are many good people fighting good fight. God bless. I'm proud of you. Thanks. This is the Truth Network.