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December 11, 2021 5:29 pm
Robby is joined by Pastor Allen Holmes for this week's episode of Kingdom Pursuits. They are joined by Bert Jones, listen as they bring a little Hope and Light into this dark world.
Nothing says Christmas like a one for poor family in Asia, getting a water buffalo is like getting a farm tractor pulled while working a milk truck to Smith getting the stand of the market water buffalo opened. More importantly, it opens the door to talk about Jesus and nothing says Christmas better than that. Join Truth Network in supporting gospel for Asia gift firstname.lastname@example.org and click on the Christmas critter campaign pursuits where you hear from ordinary people instilled with an extraordinary passion together we explore the stories of men and women who take what they love and let God turn their passion into the kingdom pursuits now live from the truth. Robbie Gilmore, I feel like always, that I've been given another Christmas presents to share some wonderful cool folks you today on getting a pursuit and what does get started. First off, Rembert Jones and he is the chaplain actually one of the state Here in the state capital in North Carolina and is been in Congress for different terms, and he is with capital commission. So welcome Bert be here with you today and is got quiet quite a story of how God led you in the political office, you know, we gotta find out about the stuff.
It was also very cool in the studio right in front of me pastor Alan Holmes and he is author of his book redefined a simple path to a whole filled life would we all like a simple path of hope fill light. It's right and so were excited about his book, but you know it's kingdom pursuits. I gotta do Robbie's stuff here so speaking of hope since as you know in your tagline there so being a Christian card. I like this one when I die, I hope it's peacefully in my sleep by grandpa right not screaming in terror. Like his passengers, like I Siam and actually I had hopes of making my racing snail faster.
I removed shell cannot happen.
It only became more sluggish.
It was monitored. It was funny so he may not know Ms. I thought about it 20 years ago we had Bob Hope Johnny Cash and Steve Jobs now is got no cash, no hope and no jobs. I mean literally we know that in mind, we don't want Kevin Bacon to this as a side note, you don't know if I find funny is that my mother's maiden name was Bacon Mr. Adam Overman related to Kevin, but I do know that my grandfather's name was Harry Bacon, and even more concerning is his brother's name. Doing Bacon is Friday so anyway you know. After all, as many as I would actually like to have a Bible riddle for you if you can answer today were hoping when this new book redefined so here's a riddle I really like this one which profits enemies play hold run this idea. They hoped he would die in a deep hole that was once filled water you might think they meant well, which profit I is enemies hoped he would die in a deep hole that was once filled with water. You might think they meant well. 868-348-7884 866-34-TRUTH and if they can guess that Jean there you go, and I can tell you this awesome book 866-34-TRUTH you know this one come on who's the who's the prophet that ended up down in the hole, 866-348-7884 866-34-TRUTH and so again I know you have just to jump right in there Bert, your land there one night and dad and all of a sudden God says Bert I want you to go to Raleigh and he said while there can you take us into how that was actually I got a little bit like the unit when I did I Lord at the time I had been involved in the local politics for a number of years that I served as a County Commissioner in Rockingham County. I really had not intended to run any further than that. I retired from that in 2008 and didn't didn't expect to serve again, but years later we were trying to recruit good candidate run the legislature in our area.
You know it kind of ended up the lot fell on me. I guess you would say I think the Lord did impress upon me really late in the in the game that year we had been I've been active in trying to get to get a better fate than any we just never really got the right candidate and the largest impress upon my heart and now my wife was really supported in people are very supportive of me doing it and it is a long story but you know it's an opportunity that God really revealed himself. We had never had candidate to run as an unaffiliated or independent candidate, and, and come in that way be elected and that we did that and one the election by 12 percentage points and that was a time when the work biting straight party ticket for United for the time I knew that God was calling me to run at it. Call me to win. He certainly made it happen.
You know it's been and it's been a great journey had opportunity for aura or terms they are before I retired and now to serve the capital commission role. I really feel like that that's a big reason why the Lord took me to Raleigh to start with the legislator. I could have the opportunity to be doing what I understand, like the character's red nose reindeer. You started out as a dentist yes by profession.
You know or state legislator have lab to have live it leaked out by the lead like that was my my career path was that was dentistry and I'm still alive then that I've had the opportunity to wear hats along the way… Think I need a little bit bigger hat rack battery where a few different hat that's one of them. Yeah, that's really, really impressive as well. Pastor Alan he is the author of redefined and so question do you like was there. You know, I know you're obviously very busy as a pastor definition church there in Greensboro. You have a lot going on in writing a book just just takes a whole lot in time and effort. How did that work out for you.
Rob is a good question for years had really felt like God called me to write mentor, Dr. Bennett said to me for years. He said anything worth saying is worth writing and that he was always pushing me to write because he's, you know you help me to understand that when you write it allows your message to have shelf life.
So any given so I think that that's was when preach a message it might be the best message I've ever preached, and by Wednesday I can't remember you nice a book is different of a book puts a message in writing and gives it I think more time to really settle in people's hearts something. There's value in that and also allows you to get your message beyond the walls of our church. So this past fall. For example, when the book was released. I had 12 other churches, who did a sermon series with me through the Beatitudes, which is what the first section of the book is about, and us of the message went beyond just one church and 12 churches around the country.
There studying the Beatitudes and using the book as a resource. So I'd I just felt called to print to write for a long time and then when Kevin hit and that had a little extra time is a lot you can start writing. How awesome is that okay the book is redefined as well as capital commission, you'll find about the kingdom pursuits.com and so we got so much more coming back with kingdom pursuits and got Samuel feels like he knows about this prophet that ended up in the whole same here how God thinks and what a treat. We have today with Bert Jones with a capital commission and their chaplain at the North Carolina state capital in Pastor Alan Holmes is that the pastor definition church in his new book redefined a simple task to a fulfilled life. And we have Samuel, who is going to answer for us, of which of these profits was down in this whole so Samuel your kingdom pursuits.
Good morning, they thought, well then there will Jeremiah will find you are exactly right. And we've got a redefined headed your way about. Did you know this is really a neat thing that the reason I love that whole concept of Jeremiah being down in the well.
As you may know, is the weeping prophet wrote the book of Lamentations as well and in Hebrew the word for I this is same thing as well because out of your eyes closed living water literally living water.
The water them. It is in tears is got all sorts of different cool stuff in it that helps relieve you from you know what is your suffering with and so here's this prophet that was the weeping prophet. These eyes now and you know it's just, and when you think about your salvation experience, most people like when John Bunyan wrote in conference progress that that that temperament weeps uncontrollably at the foot of the cross because you know and and and that idea of living water coming there at your salvation is really cool if ever thought about yelling. Have properties and all that. It made me think about it in the concept of soul you know you and your stolen and that that they met that even acute or external, but they're doing something internal and also really cool Samuel you know you're kind of applying a based on your name. You know you got a long history of biblical answer. That's awesome said no thank you for going in today that the courage and were so glad that you won this book, you can enjoy it yes or thank you thank you God bless bye-bye so I now I am always thrilled when I get authors such as think it's really how cool is it God gave you this adventure to go on and so I have a sense with every author that God gives him really cool stuff along the way that surprised him. Like I didn't see this coming.
And so what was that in your book pastor that that kinda grabbed you like I did and all I didn't see this coming. When I give you set them right in the Beatitudes you get a pastor for 20 years. I'm guessing you preached the room a few tough and so what what grabbed you know what I think one of the things that really caught my attention is when you think about what we look see happening in culture, I think so many people are discouraged about their fate think a lot of people who've been in church for years like I've tried this and I'm not sure that it's working in a day trying to do the right thing. They're trying to experience God and he feels distant. Trying to change and change seems to never come, and I when you start studying the Beatitudes, which realizes that was all true. In the first century and Jesus begins this message by over and over again, inviting us into a blast life. But what's surprising is the path, and so he begins you know, of course. Blessed are the poor in spirit, which seems a little confusing.
Blessed are those who mourn, like you were just talking about and I'll Blessed are the meek and blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, and all of those things were true for the crowd, the people at ease talking to.
I think most of those things are true for a lot of people in American culture today to maybe been in church for years, but they they don't feel blessed. They don't feel close to Jesus.
They are longing for more in Jesus because of this very encouraging message and is inviting them into this life. But the path is surprising. It's not propping yourself up in try harder and and you act like a Christian and if you want to be blessed you know you better do the right thing is the opposite. It's it's acknowledging our spiritual bankruptcy.
It's our brokenness over our condition and the condition of the world we live in its its humility and brokenness and surrender dependence. It's this life with God where he begins producing new life in thing that's different than what most people of experience shall meet think it is and I can't help but just reflect on actually on the 19th Psalm starts with a couple Beatitudes right then when he gets the paper letter doll. It's which you know they say that that idea of humility is a doorway to spirituality and any starts out with my soap leave and find of the dust right way. That's that's where it takes. Interestingly and I see it so often when I when I get a chance to meet with the guys from Winston-Salem rescue Mission right here is his people that have really been homeless to bend this to Matt but God they got to the point of humility where right right and you think about these people that are sitting there looking down on the rescue mission letter on the 10th floor.
The Piedmont building in Winston-Salem and and those poor people don't realize that to get what it is that they're so hungry for the guy get thirsty sort of certainly true for me to Matt my story you'll read this in the beginning of the book. As I went to seminary. But the truth is I don't have much humility Simon seminary preparing to be a pastor. I love Jesus.
I was glad I was going to happen now is very zealous.
You know, outspoken Brian submitted that shared his fate all the time. Want to change the world and got married after my first semester in sin of seminary and then five months later I came home one day, five months in the marriage.
Towards the second end of my second semester. My wife had been struggling, married marriage in the transition to seminary was more difficult for her. I came home one day and she said Alan I don't love you and I don't think I want to be married and I will never be in the ministry. I will go home and in that moment.
What happened was mastering my pride my self-sufficiency my independence my arrogance was all exposed and broken in every I just began to realize the truth is I'm religious but I'm not spiritual I'm working for God, but not with him and in my brokenness, there came some humility in God began to do something that is much more spiritual and internal, and life-changing in my life and I don't know who said this, but years ago I heard all think humility comes on the backside of humiliation right it's not until we suffer, not to we go through difficulty that we begin to see our need for God. That's a real problem in American culture right.
We pride ourselves in being self-made and pulling up our bootstraps and that mentality really works against your spiritual life. Brian creates pride like where you talk about earlier such.
I find this beautiful that at that moment God brings Dr. Bennett. That's exactly right in that moment. We decided that the only reasonable thing to do is drop out of seminary. We actually did move back to Homewood from Wilmington so that we could really focus on rebuilding our marriage and at that same moment I was introduced to a man his name was Dr. Bennett, retired pastor. He was an interim pastor in Wilmington at the time and and I went and met with Amy just asking for help, and literally it was like he adopted me as his son just took me under his wing and for the next 20 years, he fathered me and did things that I've never experience. I grew up in a broken home and really didn't have father figure. That way, and Dr. Bennett began to play that role when it healed my soul that he began teaching me how to spend time with God and allow God to transform me from the inside out rather than striving to perform for God, that's what I think 70 Christians today are discouraged in and that they were really honest. They are not very hopeful that change is possible. They're not hopeful that God is close to not certain that God's paying attention or is concerned about what's going on in their life and primarily that's because they've spent their life trying to perform thinking that performance is the key to being close to Jesus. Now that's that's when religion works best when I got sick, that's exactly and it's a burden. It is a burden infant patiently listening to this conversation. I'm curious your thoughts. I truly enjoyed a man to everything that Alan and I appreciate you sharing your testimony and just go where where the Lord taught them in the area united by praise the Lord absolutely God bless you brother. It's amazing that humiliation seems to be willing to put me through that. I love that humility does come, on the other side of humiliation. If you have experience that you might try to be back with so much more kingdom ever since Bert Jones and pastor Alan Holmes. Their stuff in the book and capital commission. It stuck where we hear how God takes your passion and I hope you've enjoyed this is much of the day to delightful time with Bert Jones of the capital commission and pastor Alan Holmes, pastor of definition church and the author of redefine the simple path to a hope filled life. So I'm curious since you know I do know we're going talk about humiliation, but I love I love that discussion, Bert. If you been I mean if you been humiliated only learn a lot life experiences and not held up one a number of hat and certainly I have been earlier in my professional derailment as a dentist had severe health issues that really really humiliated me in the sense of just really pointing out my letter dependent on, Lord, and I think that was very shaking in my life and my own spiritual growth to serve in a pastoral ministry actually we have a plurality of elders and archer share the pastoral ministry, non-bank national aspirin that I think you know just shepherding people and being like that of other Syrian others that that aspect as well, it certainly is a legislator you're going to be humiliated as a legislator, and there's a lot to learn.
They are he got.
I tell the legislators there. Now you got two types of people here and there's one type telling you that you're the greatest thing like bread because they want something from you. I want your day and then there's another great that is very much against what you're doing and they'll tell you that your your lower and dirt and it just kinda important to keep their life between rail and I don't know without without faith in the one true God and the Lord Jesus Christ that people really do that but there are humiliating experience sure III find it so beautiful, really, really do God allowed Dr. Bennett to come into Allen's life it for such a time as this. And so obviously the end is your role.
There is a chaplain for these other people obvious your living outright. Second Corinthians chapter 1 love God of all comfort right comforting these poor guys and in ways that you were comforted by God while you were serving because I imagine that that that discouragement would be an understatement there in what they're facing is that they came in with an ideal of man working really change the world and the boy ME what is that what is that big discouragement and slaps him right in the face right after they get in the office. Yeah, I think there are a lot of realizations you know people go and be careful what you promise people that you're going out the politics really is attained or and you not going to do anything by yourself.
I better be able to play well with others and work with others and and there are so many things that you have an opportunity to learn about you know. There's a fine line between being attentive to the people that think you there disturbing just being a people pleaser and and ultimately you know the Bible is very clear that God has ordained human government that government officials are are ministers of God we read about that for me and I think first and foremost we we serve God we serve an audience of one.
In serving God and serving him well were going to do the right things for our first blended right things for our state and our nation and our community. That perspective, you know, I think we certainly pray or more people. With that perspective, to serve in government at all levels that's that's a great idea. So Alan, you know, again is your right Mr. on this adventure with God and he sharing stuff with you. I'm curious.
I love this question. What can you hardly wait for somebody to read in this book is mailing hardly wait till they get to chapter whatever or when they get to this what what what what would that be, you know, I think the public. The first thing that comes to mind is just to read my story in the introduction, because you know I just shared a portion of it in the introduction I share my whole life story and it's really a story of redemption and you know I'm real transparent about how I grew up in who I became and some of the things that were issued issues in my life and and how God you know transformed all and redeemed all of that and I think for so many people they just they need hope you know we are in the Advent season.
The first Advent candle.
First we give Advent we talk about hope and I think so many people need hope they need to know that God can heal their pain that God can redeem their past that God has a plan and a purpose for them moving into the future think they can really walk with him and be transformed by his grace and something the thing that I'm most excited about, really, when they read it is just to to get hope in the rest of the book basically explains okay what is this journey look like what are the steps that we take now that hope word is like.
I know a lot of people that are stuck in addiction that I think I can get out of that that I'm never I can remember my own heart would've told you. I can never stay in love with anybody for any length you know this is not this is not something I can imagine happening for 40 or 50 years that this is going to get all this talk of a work. There's no hope in that that relationship because my parents were divorced right so I sought it. I didn't see anybody could get stay together. How does that work right and that was our story soon after that experience that I had 25 years ago next week. My wife and I will celebrate 25 years and again people here that story and gives him hope that if here's a guy in seminary, has drop out of seminary is not sure his marriage will make. His wife is maybe very clear.
She'll never be in ministry and today we been married 25 years and we been pastoring the same church for 21 years. Now she's a pastor's wife, also a big church like this. Any surveys against just it's it's it's such a beautiful thing and and and so tell me Bert Europe as a capital commission and you know you got this ministry what's what's your passion, what is it your hope in people find out what I mean.
Our mission is really here right capital. That's what we do in Raleigh. You know we are there to minister like we said earlier, I mean everybody else there.
We got great even Christian lobbying groups and all the wheat we are nonpolitical, yet we minister and a political environment, but we are and we are nonpolitical we are. We are basically the one person there that are there to serve them and not politically.
That's an interesting term because everything you talk about in the a good team player and all of those are the goods on the politics right is like, you know, you have an affiliation with the Republican exactly we are there we are not there to be lobbying them politically where they are to share the good news of Christ and see you know we have regular Bible study big part of what we do we want to immerse people that will participate and we have a legislator that lobbyist you know we we minister to the capital community college polity about their that we will could you give us some hope for Raleigh like since you know these folks what what should we hope the coming make progress. I think our hyperlink in the Lord, you know, we need to continue to pray for our later we think about right for the M right if they come to a saving knowledge of Christ in a way that brings honor and glory how close we got one more segment coming up soon so that no man what a lineup we have to day on the Truth Network's estate got so much more homes is the author of re-defined and though this book is available. Amazon, of course you looking to pursuits.com and get it get connected with the capital commission. It's all there kingdom pursuits so we talked about the book but we haven't talked about the title so you know that's got to be a hard thing when you're trying to figure out and I've written this route.
We did the title come first or to the book in first or how that will take the title came when I was preaching. It is not preached through the sermon on the Mount a couple years ago and that idea is that Jesus came to redefine what it means to have a relationship with God think in a culture that was very religious. Jesus wants to make it very clear. It's about a relationship and I was telling you, dear. Just explain in during the break and in fact, let me just say to Bert Bert if you'd like, I'd be happy to send a copy of the book or send you enough copies of the book to send all of our state legislators copy and be great because the thing that for me was a big issue.
You know couple years ago we got all the political stuff happening got all the racial stuff happening. We had Corona coming in all the all the tension around and you were trying to figure out what to do. I think one of the challenges that the Christian community in America made is we began asking government and politicians to do. We really only the church can do there certainly a place of role for government and politicians, and there is a clear role for the church and they really complement one another. If the church does what gods call the church to it really empowers politicians to do and for government work properly when the church fails.
There is no political solution. There is no net that big. There's no way to fix what's happening in our culture, and I think Jesus in the sermon on the mount. He sees all these issues. In fact, in the sermon on the drip mall he's get addressed all of the cultural hot topic issues of his day begins in the Beatitudes by saying if we don't get our hearts with God. Right.
That's with the first four Beatitudes are about if we don't learn to relate to each other right which are what the next four Beatitudes are about. There's no fixing it. But when we do, then the very next thing Jesus says is now that that's true now that your relationship with God's help the relationship with people are healthy.
That's true. You are the salt and light of the world.
And then he begins explaining how the kingdom impacts all of these cultural issues and is a really that's what the that's what the book is about. So Bert your thoughts lately. I couldn't agree more, and I appreciate all throughout collided share them with our legislators and it whale God has ordained human government got it certainly ordain the church and he ordained a family family and you know if everybody would stay in their own lying and and carry out their own role of the Bible is very specific about you know roles for the different institutions and things are working according to the Lord's plan.
Things are going to work well, but when we get out of balance and mammal to do things his own way. That's when we get into trouble. I love the idea you have really about praying I mean, obviously will we need to take care of our own families. We need to take our own roles in the church with what that may be, but then you know us apart from obviously voting which leading to nowhere that goes, but we pray right.
You know what exactly 1 of the things that seems challenging when you think about American culture in general is we will a pastor to fix it a politician to fix it. The government will somebody else to fix it to take responsibility for what God has called each of us in our home.
In all these realms is called us to rule and reign you know where the children of God. We are supposed to be kings. We are supposed to establish the kingdom for the blessing of all people, and I but we've gotten to this place where, unfortunately, even the evangelical church in America is pursuing the American dream and hope in a politician will fix the problems and I going you want to know who Adam thought was going to fix it.
The serpent to do some of this like a really bad that we do suffer from that same dilemma white man and so what I need time to really think about what wonderful Christmas present redefined you and you can hear Allen's hard and you can kinda get an idea of this and clearly you know what, what a wonderful time to think about getting somebody you love on this because if we get our hearts right man that is so much more. And obviously there's a there's this hope that, then that's what Christmas is about right. So wow I'm Bert thank you so much for you doing up there. God bless you and be planned by Clayton Allen. His church is the definition church in Greensboro. In his book is redefined. It's all there kingdom pursuits.com and boy are we thankful for you listed today are so blessed because it's what encouraging prayers coming up next really talking Mark, the Herald Angels Sing followed by masculine journey at the cuticle office time to man up at all dear on the Truth Network stage one, so look for 1 o'clock today to list