The GOOD NEWS Show

Hi, this is Roy Jones with ManTalk Radio Podcast. Our mission is to break down the walls of race and denomination. Your chosen Truth Radio Broadcast will be starting in just a few seconds.

Thank you. This is the Truth Network. Kingdom Pursuits, where you hear from ordinary people instilled with an extraordinary passion. Together we explore the stories of men and women who take what they love and let God turn their passion into Kingdom Pursuits. Now, live from the Truth Booth, your host, Robbie Dilmore.

Have fun today on Kingdom Pursuits. We got lots going on with the Supreme Court of all things, and that's an interesting passion. But actually, both our guests today have a passion for children. The first one, Herbie Newell, is president of Lifeline Children's Service. And Herbie, you've followed what's going on with Supreme Court, and you've got some things that got you concerned.

Yeah, well, certainly. You know, we here at Lifeline Children's Services have been following this case for a while, even really since three years ago when Philadelphia first showed this sign of religious discrimination against Catholic Social Services, and at the time, Bethany Christian Services. And this has been such a huge issue for our ministry because of the biblical foundation that we have, that not only have we followed this case, but we partnered with Beckett to actually write an amicus brief, a friend of the court brief. And so we actively participated in this case because we believed and knew how important it was for religious freedom, particularly for child welfare. Wow. And so the case itself, Fulton versus Philadelphia, essentially—can you kind of describe for us what was going on with that?

Yeah, absolutely. So Catholic Social Services and Bethany Christian Services were two biblically based religious organizations. They were operating in the city of Philadelphia. They were taking state funds as well as local city funds to be able to operate their foster care program. And what they were doing was recruiting foster families from churches or parishes throughout Philadelphia, and then equipping training and licensing those families to be foster children. And if you look at the map, Philadelphia is actually even one of the top 10 locales for foster children.

So there's a lot of kids in need that have a need. I believe if you look back, Bethany was serving about 1,300 foster families at the time, and Catholic Social Services was serving about 1,100 foster families. So between the two organizations, that meant 2,000 children were in care with both of those organizations. The city of Philadelphia decided that they were going to discontinue funding both of those organizations, but they did it in a split decision, almost overnight. And it left both of those—because they actually said, we'll continue the funding if you will stop discriminating on your religious beliefs, if you'll stop only recruiting and training and equipping families that ascribe to your faith statement. At the time, Catholic Social Services said, no, we're not going to compromise.

And Bethany made the hard decision in what their statement said to comply with Philadelphia and to accept anyone into their foster care program. The Catholic Social Services actually decided to go ahead and sue the city of Philadelphia, believing that this was a direct infringement upon the religious liberties and the religious freedom of their organization to train, equip, and recruit those families that could sign their faith statement, that agreed with their Catholic faith. And so that case made it all the way to the Supreme Court.

Actual oral arguments were made the day after the election on November the 4th. And I will say, Robbie, we believed and had hope, even listening to the oral argument, that this case was going to be found on behalf of Fulton or Catholic Social Services. And actually seeing this decision, you know, there's a lot of hope. And for an organization like ours, Lifeline, we actually don't take any government, state, local funding. So for us, this is a huge victory, because this is another layer of protection for us, and especially for all the others that don't take any government funding.

But even for those that do take government funding, this is still a big win. Certainly, I'm no legal scholar, but as I've talked to some constitutional attorneys that we work with, especially with the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission in DC, they believe that this is a win. And the court has basically said to not just the city of Philadelphia, but to the United States writ large, that if you're going to try to discriminate against religious and faith-based organizations, then you're going to have to do it through the legislature.

You're not going to be able to do it just haphazardly. So you're going to have to try to change laws. And, you know, a lot of religious scholars and religious freedom scholars, while they certainly wish that this decision had been a little bit broader, and maybe a little bit more precedent-setting, I think they also understand that currently where our country is, that even those that are most secular still really do have a belief. As a matter of fact, Beckett put out a study that says 70% of America actually still believes that religious liberty should be protected. So I think it's going to be really hard for the legislature, at least today, to try to do any laws that would infringe upon our First Amendment freedom of religion.

Wow, which just gets back to how important those Supreme Court justices that have been installed recently are to the situation at hand. But while we got you, I understand for just a few more minutes, Herbie, tell us about Lifeline Children's Services. Who are you guys? Yes, so we work mostly within the southeast, so the southeastern United States, as well as some in the Midwest. But we work with women who are going through crisis pregnancies, helping them see the love and the healing of Christ Jesus, to help them see life for their child, to provide adoption options where applicable. We help families both internationally and domestically adopt, and so we're helping bring permanence to kids that need forever family. We also do work in the foster care system, help with family reunification to bring kids and their families back together, as well as bring kids into placement through the foster care system to help them to be safe. We are a biblically based ministry, so all of these ministries rely upon partnerships with churches and partnerships with believers. We also provide strategic orphan care around the world, helping kids that are aging out of orphanages to equip the global church to care for these kids and to wrap around these kids. And then last but certainly not least, we do counseling and education, and so for those families and those kids who have either been through foster care, or being fostered, or have been adopted, or have experienced adoption, we want to be there with biblical counseling to point them back to the way that they should go. That is awesome, Herbie. And so, you know, as our listeners want to engage with you guys, because I understand we only have you for a couple more minutes, how would you, at the people listening, how would you have them pray for Lifeline Children's Service?

Yeah, I really appreciate that. I would say first to pray that we would have the wisdom and that we would have the words to be able to point those that we work with to Christ Jesus. That is our first and foremost mission, is to manifest the gospel and to point those that are the most vulnerable back to Christ. And so I just pray that his spirit will work in their lives, that he would bring light into the darkest situations, and that he would certainly bring help and healing to these, the most vulnerable that we work with. And I think second, I would say is that we would continue to be wise in this age, that certainly we would not compromise, but that we would also be wise as we navigate the religious liberty issues that are at hand. And while certainly we celebrate the decision of Fulton, we know that there's still a long battle to fight to be able to continue to operate in the way that we've operated for the last 40 years.

And then third, I think for especially ministries that aren't taking state, local, and government funds, to pray that the God that owns the cattle and the thousand acres, that he would be able to add on a thousand hills, would supply the needs of those ministries that are like Lifelines, that are operating on the basis of the facialness of God's people. That is so awesome. Thank you, Herbie, the president of a Lifeline Children's Service. But also now we got Reece Kaufman. He's the president of Child Evangelism Fellowship, CEF.

Like, wow. I mean, and this month you guys are celebrating 20 years since the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Good News Clubs, right, Reece? That is correct. Yes, the anniversary date is 6-11, kind of like 9-11-01.

6-11-01, we think is a great date for eternity, and that's when the schools opened up for the 6-3 decision of the United States Supreme Court. So we got, I hate to interrupt you, Reece. We got so much more with Reece in the next segment and the following segment. So we got a lot more with Reece Kaufman coming up on Kingdom Pursuit. Stay tuned, including my riddle.

You don't want to miss that. You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the kingdom. Today we have with us Reece Kaufman.

He's the president of Child Evangelism Fellowship. And this month, as we were talking about, they're celebrating, the CEF is celebrating 20 years since the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in favor of the Good News Club, which, you know, once again, has given them an opportunity to do so much work under, you know, God, so to speak. It's really a beautiful thing, Reece, so I, hey, we interrupted you as we went in there. But again, tell us about the Supreme Court ruling. Well, we're, we are celebrating this month what God has done.

And this happened on 6-11, very similar to 9-11 of 01, the same year, just three minutes apart, three months apart. And I'll never forget where I was when I got the word that the court ruled in our favor. It was a 6-3 decision, and the Good News Club has the rights now to be in public schools in America right after the school hour, as much as any other group that's allowed in the schools. And so this opened up the door for the school system, and with the change of our culture, where parents are not real comfortable with their children being in other people's homes, this has really helped our ministry greatly, and we are now working to expand this opportunity.

We have been working on it now for 20 years, so we're thrilled at this victory, we look upon it as something God has done, especially for our nation. Oh, it's absolutely awesome. And Reece, is your, are you on a speaker phone, or can you actually hold the receiver?

Because we're not getting as loud as I would like to. All right, let me see if I can help that a little bit. I'll go straight phone. Yes, I was on one now. That may be better for you right now. Oh, yeah. No comparison. Absolutely beautiful. So I'm very, I have had an opportunity to interview several folks with CEF over the years, but for those who haven't heard of you, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about what Child Evangelism Fellowship is?

Sure. Our ministry was founded in 1937, so we're 84 years old. It was founded here in the United States, and two years after it was founded and starting to spread across this country, we began to send missionaries overseas.

The first ones went to Latin America because it was war started and the European war had started, World War II, and so the work is growing worldwide, and we now are in most every nation of the world with work going. Actually, about 97 percent of our work is overseas right now, and that's been expanding because God has just blessed the work wherever it goes, and there's children everywhere. So that's what we focus on, elementary-aged children, and God has blessed, actually, the two years prior to the pandemic, we reached over 25 million children each of those years in person, live, teacher to looking right in the eyes of a child, using our material and having gone through our training programs of how to present the Gospel to children. So it's been a great ministry, and I've been thrilled to be involved in it. I got involved in the local level, and then the national, and then in leadership, and so God has blessed me by that opportunity. But we are an excited ministry trying to turn the hearts of the parents and the churches to the children. We think the elementary-aged children have been neglected.

There's all kinds of ministries going after adults and teenagers and families and men and women and college students, but who's looking after the young children? And as George Barna says, 85 percent of the people come to Christ and live and serve in local churches came to Christ before their 15th birthday. And as a businessman, I come from the business world, and from the businessman, to shoot for a 15 percent market with 95 percent of your energy doesn't make a lot of sense.

Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah, we're focusing on the 85 percent market, and it's a fruitful ministry, and that's what's drawn me to it personally, and we believe in it. But God has blessed this ministry, and we have about 3,700 workers around the world, and we probably work with a quarter million volunteers each month. And during the pandemic year, last year, our data comes in every May, and even though our ministry was reduced this past year, we did reach 16 million children with the gospel, and now our ministries have to take on a lot of new dimensions because of the changes in the culture and the changes in the environment because of the pandemic.

Yeah, man, what an interesting challenge. So from a current standpoint, so our listeners have kind of put some flesh on this, is there a story of an individual child family that you're familiar with that happened recently since the COVID situation where you're just like, man, God, I'm so glad you have me involved with Child Evangelism Fellowship? Oh, yes, we get stories in from around the world, because a lot of our ministry now has had to go to the internet, we're doing things virtually, and we have good news clubs going live through WhatsApp and through direct on the internet, all kinds, and we do get reports in, and I hear stories of children coming to Christ, but more than that, I can tell you that whole churches have been started because of children coming to Christ, their parents following, and eventually a church being established in different parts of the world. In fact, this whole ministry... Could you actually tell us that story, like, where it happened, how it happened, who was involved in it?

Well, let me start with the first one, then I'll tell you a second one. The first way our ministry was started with a story like that, our founder would refer to as Mr. O, was in the denomination back in the 1930s that did not evangelize children, think that children should even be tried to receive Christ at an early age. He was reading Charles Spurgeon, and a book by Spurgeon that he was reading, he loved Spurgeon, that says a child of five, if properly instructed, comes to the saving knowledge of Christ just as an adult. And he said out loud, as the story goes, that's not true, Charles, but he went on in his life to, yeah, that's what he said, and went on in his life to witness to some children in this church kind of privately.

If you read his life story, it was almost in secret because he was embarrassed to even be doing it, but he wanted to find out if children come to Christ. Well, to make this story short, what happened was two little girls, a girl nine years old and 11, two sisters, two sisters put their trust in Christ, and from all that we could tell, he could tell, the new birth had taken place. A few months later, their mother, who was an anosic, came to church service that they had, and she came in that evening during invitation time, she came forth to receive Christ. And Mr. O went to her, and after she prayed and she was smiling and she was happy and about to leave the church, he said to her, we've tried for years to get you to come to church.

What caused you to come to church? And his answer was, her answer was, well, to change the life of my two daughters. And there's the story. When the new birth takes place in the child's life, the person becomes a new creation in Christ, and they start to see changes in life, even of a child. And what happened, the mother saw that, and she understood the life of her two little girls. She wanted what they had, and they came to Christ, she came to Christ herself, following her two daughters.

Those kind of stories are everywhere. We have people work in her office, they've been in the ministry now 30 years, and they tell you when at six years old, seven years old, they came to know Christ, and I call it grown-up fruit. I mean, God gives fruit, but when the fruit grows up, that's the real test. And the Lord says in John chapter 15 that the fruit will abide. And we believe that if a child truly comes to know Christ, that the Holy Spirit and the Lord will take care of that child, and we'll find that the fruit grows up, and later you'll find them. I was in the church in North Carolina speaking, and I got up to speak, and the pastor announced to him my total surprise. He said, well, before you come to the pulpit, he just wants you to know this church was actually started by a good news club, and then told the story of how a little club of children got together, and ultimately their parents came to know Christ, and now there's a church with a few hundred people sitting there.

And I was just shocked that I walked to the pulpit, and what a good feeling to start off your message. And God is doing that around the world. We see that happening all over the world, and it might interest you to know that our strongest region in the world, we have eight regions, our strongest region is the Middle East, the most difficult countries of all.

And it seems where the persecution takes place and things are difficult, that's where the ministry expands the fastest. And right now, they all, every one of us, I mean, every country has kids, right? And as those kids in the Middle East, whether that's in Iran or wherever, right, they've got parents. And so how beautiful, you know, that's really powerful that you're sure they love their kids, and when they see their kids' lives changed, they're like, man, I want a piece of this.

Exactly right. And through the Middle East, we had a program going this past Christmas, we've done it the last two years, called Christmas Across the Middle East, and they call it C.A.M.M.L. The C.A.M.M.L., if you spell that, is Christmas Across Middle East Land spells C.A.M.M.L. And we started this program, and even the Muslim parents want their children to hear the true story of Christmas. And we're starting that program this year in America for Christmas, that parents, a lot of parents that do not know the Lord, but they would like their children to hear the true meaning of Christmas, so we have called it Christmas Party Clubs. And the object, of course, is to tell them the true meaning of Christmas, and then to give them the Gospel with the hope to draw them into a Good News Club, which is our primary ministry that we have in the schools, and we have in homes in other places as well.

So there's great interest in parents bringing their children for various reasons. I have been in many countries around the world, I travel internationally an awful lot, and I've been in many countries where Muslim mothers are lining around the Good News Club in their Muslim dress, listening to the stories of the Gospel, and their children are sitting in the class because they want them there. And it's amazing how God works. And so the fastest region of our eight regions is the Middle East, fastest growing, I should say, and millions of children have come to know the Lord there in the last few years because of what God is doing in those countries. And we're thrilled to see God do those things. Yeah, wow, me too. And so if you're listening and you're not familiar with Child Evangelism Fellowship, their website is cef, for Child Evangelism Fellowship, online.com.

It's cefonline.com. So of course, if you want to find out more information on how you can, you know, connect. And as you said, you've got literally hundreds of thousands of volunteers, am I right? Yeah, so let me just tell you, I'm a business person from the city of Indianapolis, and I was the manufacturer. I built a manufacturing business in my very young years, and I was interested in productivity. In other words, we ran production, high volume production.

I made metal components for the automotive industry, military, and other appliances, and I was interested in raw material coming in, finished goods going out, machines running 24-7, all kinds of activity. And when I got heard about Child Evangelism, I wasn't sure I would be interested, because I'd rather deal with men. Well, I hate we got another break coming up, so we're going to hear the rest of the businessman model of what happened with Child Evangelism Fellowship.

We got Amy Cabo, and of course, my riddle. I'm actually going to get to it in the next segment. I promise it's going to happen. So stay tuned. A lot more Kingdom Pursuits coming up. You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the kingdom, and we have with us today Reese Kaufman.

He is the president of Child Evangelism Fellowship, which is CEF, their website CEF online, where they're celebrating 20 years since the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Good News Clubs. But also, I need to tell you, I have with me my good friend Amy Cabo. Her show is coming up at 1 o'clock today.

It will be live. And Amy, what you got for us? Well, today we have Kevin Malone with an amazing testimony. He's going to share his experience in human trafficking, mainly child trafficking. And also, his son, Sean, had been brain dead, practically had died. And he was in a wreck. He came back to life.

He was supposed to be disconnected. And this man would not give up on him. His story is so impressive. He made a documentary. And it's just, it's another testimony to faith and how God does intervene at the most desperate moments of our lives. Right, and that had to do with opioids, am I right?

Yes, it was an opioid overdose. So wow, you, that's a live show. It's coming on at 1 o'clock.

You can call in, and you also get to talk to Boris. I mean, not just Amy. You get the whole package. So thank you, Amy. I appreciate you calling in, sharing your show. It's 1 o'clock. It's The Cure, coming up on The Truth Network.

So you guys, tune in. Thank you, Amy. God bless. Thank you much.

And God bless you too. Bye-bye. So you knew I told you I had to do my riddle, so I'm going to. And, you know, we both guess, you meant, you might have noticed, we're talking about the Supreme Court. So speaking of Supreme Court.

I think of Taco Bell. Lately, I've noticed the Supreme Court has been a little more ruthless. She's not there anymore.

She's not. So it's, yeah, it's kind of what happened. Yeah. And it's crazy that they only have one, I don't know if you knew this, they only have one unit of measurement in North Korea. Just one?

Yeah, especially when it comes to their drinks. They use the Supreme Leader. Supreme Leader. Oh, oh, look, I'm glad he, Reese enjoyed it. He did.

And you're going to like my last one, Beth Ann. Oh, good. Before we get to the actual riddle. Okay. Picking a Supreme Court justice is a lot like crossing a river. Have you thought about that? It all comes down to Roe versus Wade.

Which do we do? Yeah, there you go. So you knew the riddle was coming. It's here.

Yeah, you can win today. All you have to do is answer this riddle. When some fall away from the faith at their day in court, why will there be no hearing? One more time. All right.

When some fall away from the faith at their day in court, why will there be no hearing? If you know that one, you can call in at 866-348-7884, 866-34-TRUTH, and if they can guess that, Robbie Riddle, Beth Ann, tell them what they can win. Oh, Robbie, we're going to dig deep into the Truth Prize Closet. It's two doors to that room, and we're going to pull out something great, maybe a t-shirt, a devotional, a beautiful Bible from one of our ministries, but there's good stuff in there.

Yeah, we got lots of books. Oh, just wow. The Truth Prize Closet, all you got to do is tell us when some fall away from the faith at their day in court, why will there be no hearing? 866-348-7884. We would love to hear from you today on Kingdom Pursuits, but when we left our hero, Reece—and I'm really interested. So you'd been in business, which I understand, because I came out of the car business myself, so I understand. You got marketing, you got buying, you got selling, you got manufacturing, you got all these things going on. So how in the world did Child Evangelism Fellowship attract you? Well, you know, it did, because I loved my business.

I started my business when I was 24 years old, and built it, and just loved every part of it, started expanding as God blessed over the years. But I had a great hunger to serve the Lord, and I learned of CEF. I personally was not excited. I didn't think I'd be that interested in it, because it's for children.

I'm for all. I taught men's Bible studies and did men's retreats, and I was more interested in working with men or with adults. But I got to go to a good news, to a committee with my city of Indianapolis, and I attended, and I gave my testimony and listened to what they said.

And when I left that meeting, I was driving away. I remember saying to myself, if what I heard today is true, if what I just heard really happened, then that little group of children's workers in there have led more souls to Christ in my city in the last 30 days than all the big churches combined, because I knew what was going on in the churches. And I started investigating, researching, going to some of their functions. And I truly, I remember, I saw through little black boys one day at the fair, just come to what I could tell from the human standpoint, they came to a true saving knowledge of Jesus Christ as their Savior. And then I began to realize how fruitful this ministry was.

Now, here I am in manufacturing, process assembly lines, robotics, everything working to produce products by so many minutes or so many per hour, interested in output, finished goods going out the back door every day. And I'm now in a ministry that I see fruitfulness and children coming to Christ, and I see it happening everywhere, because the gospel itself is designed for childlike faith. When I began to realize that adults have to become like a child to be saved, and how hard that is for them to give up all their hope and their own effort and their own egos and talents and gifts, and they have to come down to like a child and realize they're helpless and they can do nothing and receive Christ. And then when they realize the children are already there, they don't have to go through those barriers, now they're open to the gospel. And as it says in Luke 11 21, the Lord was rejoicing, saying that He was thrilled as He spoke to the Father, and He said that this plan of redemption was not designed for the learned and the educated, but for little children.

And if it wasn't designed that way, it wouldn't work, of course. And so I began to grasp this, and I can tell you this day, I wish I was a good children's worker, but I'm not. But I have learned how effective they are, and so I've given my life to help children's workers reach children, and get them what they need, help provide them with the things they need, and help grow the ministry. So that attracted me, just because the fruitfulness of reaching children. And that's my call to the churches of America, that we need to be focusing on our children. It seems so much that the children are put in a room, they entertain them, they tell them Bible stories, or teach them something, or play games, but the real meaning is going on with the adults. And we need to focus on children, because they're open to the gospel, and they can receive the gospel. And as I said earlier, there's evidence of growing up fruit everywhere, when people had come to Christ in their early years, and they testify to that fact. So the proof is there.

And we need to focus on children, we really do. And I kind of am a living testimony of that, when I sit there and put this story together. My wife, she married me, I was a heathen, okay?

Car salesman, you know, you get the picture. Anyway, my wife's father was a bad alcoholic, and very, very abusive. Her mother also had serve struggles, and he died when she was seven years old. Her father died when she was seven years old, right?

Like a week before her eighth birthday. And when he died, during the transition, while they were trying to figure out what to do with the kids, they'd have gotten no father, there was a family called the Bufors that took Tammy in, and you know what they did? They took her to church. So she would have never been to, you know, cross the church door with her family based on their background, except this family, right?

So, you know, the whole idea. So this family takes Tammy to church, and she accepts Christ, like at eight years old. Shortly thereafter, they moved to Maybank, another town in Texas, and as she's walking down the street, this other man comes up by the name of Mr. Marriott, and he says, young lady, do you go to church?

And she goes, no, but I'd really like to. And so this man started taking Tammy to church. Nobody in her family went to church now, but Tammy ended up, you know, and eventually her mother got saved along the same lines, and eventually I got saved along the same lines, because a little girl got taken to church, right? That otherwise never had a chance to hear the gospel.

And, you know, so what you're talking about, like, so powerful, and what's going on around the world. So we got one more segment to talk about this, and I am shocked that nobody has called. My riddle's not that hard, is it now?

When some fall away from the faith at their day in court, why will there be no hearing? 866-348-7884. We got one more segment. You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the kingdom. We're so blessed to have with us the president of the Child Evangelism Fellowship, Reese Kaufman, with us today. And talking about Children Evangelism Fellowship, their website is cefonline.com, cefonline.com, and as I was thinking about it, Reese, these good news clubs, like you said, you went to this good news club, you saw these workers, so can you kind of give us, like, what happens at a good news club?

Well, a good news club is, depending on the club meaning, we have a certain standard they have to hold to, and the clubs run from an hour and fifteen minutes to an hour and a half, generally. Obviously there's music for children to sing, Christian songs, we do memory work, sometimes that's done through music as well, where they memorize verses of scripture, and then we have a Bible story, and in the Bible story we bring out the gospel truth. We also have something in the clubs for all the saved children to grow in their walk with God, and of course we have oftentimes missionary stories where we tell what God is doing through workers around the world, and all of this is to point the children to Christ. And when the child comes out of a good news club, they're singing songs, they're quoting scripture, they know the Bible stories, and this goes with them. We give them material, we have devotional books for children of different age levels, and the idea is we want that child with the Lord every day.

In fact, we are working in the discipleship area, we had a little song we wrote a few years ago, God Wants to Spend Time with Just You, Just You, God Wants to Spend Time with Just You, 365 days a year, God Wants to Spend Time with Just You. And that's the chorus of the song, and of course we're giving the children material that every day they can have time with the Lord in a devotional that has scripture included. And so yeah, we desire for that child not just to come to Christ, and then of course in our purpose statement, one of the few organizations has a local church mentioned. We want the child to come to a saving knowledge of Christ, we want them to be discipled in the Word of God, and we want them to be involved in a local Bible-believing church.

So that's our mission statement, that's what we strive to do. So God has blessed this work as we see children grow up, and then they grow—we call it a window of opportunity. When the child gets in that age of around six years old or thereabouts, and they're six years old or thereabouts, and in our country that window closes around 11 or 12 at the most.

Different countries, it's different areas depending on the culture, but with a child in America, their worldview is generally locked in by about nine, and what they believe at 13 is probably what they're going to believe when they die. Well, and that's why—again, to get into that, just to—I apologize, something happened to my mic, it went away for a second, but I want to jump in about a paragraph or two ago—is that, you know, again, somebody who came to Christ at the age of 31, it doesn't—you know, God's got all sorts of ways to get to people, there's no doubt He does. But I will say this, you said something I think is very significant, I don't want our listeners to miss, and you said it—you might have said it actually in the last segment, but a lot of people picture Sunday school as something to entertain the kids while we speak to the parents, okay?

And actually, I teach special needs adults, you know, a lot of people call them kids, but they're age, you know, 20 through—some of them are older than me, 67, 68 years old, and they have Down syndrome and things like that, and a lot of times people said, oh, it's so nice that you entertain these folks so their parents can go worship. Well, let me just tell you that it could be that their parents are the ones getting entertained if they want to see worship, come watch my group, okay? But the point you made is actually hugely significant when you think about how important all those Sunday school teachers, and how wonderful it is that you guys are help training these people so that they realize that their purpose at being in those classrooms is really to make disciples of these five, six, seven-year-old, eight-year-olds, right? Yes, exactly, and I would ask every pastor that's listening right now to this program, are they confident they know that their Sunday school teachers have been trained on how to present the gospel to a child, and how to bring it out of a Bible story, and how to make it clear from Scripture, and not just to entertain the kids, but do they know how to lead them? This should be evangelistic as well as the things the kids enjoy, and it's very critical, and that's our call is to turn the hearts of the churches and the pastors to where the real fruitfulness is, and where the real important needs are going, because look what's going on in the world today. You know on your program, the perversion, all the things that are happening around the world to get into the classroom in the textbook, why doesn't the church go the same way, go after the classroom in the textbook? I'm saying that in light of getting the children at that age. These perverted groups, they're going after the kindergarts, they're going after first and second grade, they want to get in the classroom.

Think of that. Why isn't the church doing that? They know something that the church hasn't figured out yet, and that is whoever owns the children owns the next generation, and we need to be focusing on children. It's a vitally important issue for our nation. Oh yeah, and we see it work out all the time that children, you know, can really really affect their parents.

I mean, and vice versa, but it's a beautiful thing, and I'm so grateful for what you guys do. Again, the website is CEFonline.com, but Rhys, how could our listeners pray for child evangelism fellowship? Where do you see God, that you would have him pray in our last few seconds? I would ask them to pray one thing for North Korea. We are praying that the doors could be open. That's the one nation we have not been to, and I have a bracelet on my wrist right now, a rubber bracelet saying pray for the children of North Korea.

We would ask for prayer for that, and then I think pray for our nation to wake up to the Christians in our nation, and wake up to the needs of their own children and the children around them, that we can give the gospel to them, and those are two very important prayer requests. Absolutely wonderful, wonderful. Thank you again, Rhys. I appreciate you so much being with us. Again, that website is CEFonline.com. Now stay tuned. So much truth coming at you. The Encouraging Prayer followed by Masculine Journey right here on WTRU if you're listening.