Forsyth Jail & Prison Ministries

This is the Truth Network. Kingdom Pursuits, where you hear from ordinary people instilled with an extraordinary passion. Together we explore the stories of men and women who take what they love and let God turn their passion into kingdom pursuits.

Now, live from the Truth Booth, your host, Robbie Dilmore.

Well, you would think then that this would be Robbie Dilmore, but you'd be wrong. This is Bill Nixon. I had the honor of filling in as host. This morning for Robbie, and I have the pleasure of having two gentlemen I respect and look up to on the show to discuss a ministry that has been important to me for decades. Mark Hogson, the director, executive director of the Forsyth Jail and Prison Ministries, and Steve Wood, a minister of the Religious Society of Friends, and a friend of mine who volunteers at the Cherry Street Correctional Bible Study on Sundays.

Good morning, Steve. Good morning, Bill. Good morning, Mark. Good morning, Bill. Thanks for having me.

Would you please tell the audience a little bit about the Forsyth Jail and Prison Ministries? Sure. Forsythe Jail and Prison Ministries serve both incarceration facilities here in Winston-Salem. We have the Forsyth Correctional Center, the Cherry Street Prison, that's on the north side of town. And then we also have the Forsyth County Detention Center, which is the jail, and that's downtown on Church and Second Street.

All total. At any given time, there's about 1,100 incarcerated individuals in Forsyth County between the two facilities.

So, Forsyth Jail and Prison Ministries provide, at our core, chaplaincy services, community-funded chaplains. That are available and serving every single day at both facilities just to meet the spiritual needs of those who are incarcerated. The Cherry Street prison is all men, about 250 men. And then downtown at the jail, it's men and women.

So we have both male and female chaplains serving. At all times, and they're on call 24 hours a day, seven days a week, when there's some type of emergency that somebody who's incarcerated might need access to a chaplain, even in the middle of the night. And then we also have a very robust reentry program called Transition to Work, and that operates out of the Cherry Street Prison. It's for men who are in the last two years of their incarceration term, they can join the Transition to Work program. We have about two years of pre-release programming and counseling for them.

And then after they're released, we stay with them for six months to a year with our post-release support just to make sure that they. Transition well. And find success after incarceration. We are community-funded. We are obviously our mission is to share Christ's love and forgiveness and to transform lives and break the cycle of crime and punishment.

And we take that mission very seriously, and that's what we want to do every day. It might look different how we do that. But what we do in sharing Christ's love and forgiveness remains the same. You know, all the years that I've Done little bits here and there. I've seen the chaplain spend a whole lot of time ministering to the staff and the officers.

in addition to the inmates. That's exactly right. That's oftentimes something that's maybe not talked about as much because the primary focus is serving those who are incarcerated. But there are hundreds of officers and staff between both facilities that they oftentimes have needs or just need somebody to talk to. They do very, very difficult work.

And we have tremendous staff and leadership serving our incarceration facilities here in Forsyth County. And we want them to have access to chaplaincy services when they need it as well. Of course, we don't push that on anybody or pressure anybody, but we're always available and always willing and ready to serve. And I'm just in awe of our chaplains and the work that they do. And they serve so selflessly.

And of course, we are doing this on the backs of those who came before us and started this wonderful ministry and built it. And we hope to honor Christ. price by keeping it going. Uh for many years to come. I've seen the officers come up to the chaplains and say, I really need your help.

I don't want to go tell this inmate about the Their sister, their mother, or this particular situation. Would you be willing to go with me, or would you be willing to share this challenging news? And I've seen the relief. of the staff and the officers as the chaplain said, I'll be glad to go. Help you with that situation.

Yeah, that's exactly right, Bill. It happens more than we realize. You know, losing a loved one is difficult in the best of circumstances. But when somebody is incarcerated and loses a mother or father or other relative, and that person sitting in an incarceration facility can't just run and be with other family members or go to the funeral or whatever, it just is a really, really difficult, challenging time.

So we want our chaplains to be available to work with those individuals, to sit with them, to listen, to cry with them, to pray with them, whatever they need in the moment. Grief is just such a personal thing, and everybody handles it very differently. And grief is compounded when incarceration is in the mix. We we had a um An officer over the jail, the detention center downtown, he had transferred or he moved here from Texas, and he said it took him a year. to believe how many volunteers were actually working in and volunteering in the jail, that it was just beyond anything that he could conceive of.

How many volunteers do we does the Forsyth Jail and Prison Ministry have now working? Between the two facilities, there's roughly about 400 total volunteers.

Now, that may not mean that all 400 come in every week.

Some may come in every week, some may come in once or twice a year, or anywhere in between. But our volunteers are the backbone of the ministry. I like to say they're like a force multiplier. You know, we have a very small staff, there's only seven of us. And so, our volunteers allow us to just expand our programming and offer Bible studies, worship services, classes.

We even have some guys that come out and play pickleball and teach pickleball and have turned that into a ministry at the prison. All different types of things to make sure that we are providing appropriate spiritual care to those men and women who are incarcerated. Right now, downtown at the jail, and these are all volunteer-led, we have 20 Bible studies every week. And we do those four days a week, a couple of times a day.

So it's really fantastic. Just how dedicated Our volunteers are. We can't thank them enough. We're just so grateful for them. And the same thing at the prison.

We have volunteers that come out and teach classes and help with worship services every Sunday night and just do so many wonderful things just with a desire to serve Christ by. Sitting with and being with what we might say is the least of these, or somebody who's in a really, really difficult part of life right now.

Well, I've had the pleasure to work with the Sunday morning Bible study at the Cherry Street Prison. And I tell people that my children used to take up a collection in church to keep me from singing. And when I found out that Steve was unbelievably talented on the guitar, I reached out to him one time to come in and play for the Sunday morning Bible study. I need to thank you, sir. Would you share a little bit about your experiences?

Well, Bill, you're a little bit hyperbolic there, and you're. He does like big words, you know?

Well. I'll tell you what, Bill, I I thank God and I thank you. that you ever invited me to be a part Uh it's been some years now, I guess, maybe a couple of three years. But wow. The opportunity to be there and share with those men on.

on Sunday morning. And it's always a mixture. I guess you know this, Mark, but it's always a mixture of men who have somehow or another found their way. Uh to the light. They found their way to God, and you can tell by their eyes that they're you know, they're so excited.

You can see the light in their eyes and feel it in their heart. And there are others other guys that come in there and they're looking, they're searching. And what Mark is hoping and what we're hoping, and of course, is that they will hear something That will be their Damascus Road where the light will come shining through. And I love what. C.S.

Lewis says, and I'd like to talk a little bit further about that in a few minutes. Um you know it It was a pleasure to have My minister friend and assembly member and Monday lunch buddy come and spend some time talking to the guys and they really enjoy. Enjoy the time that he spends with us. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back.

We're so glad you're here on Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear from people how they make a difference in the lives of others sharing Jesus. I've got a dear friend here who is a friends minister. And I don't know, those of you who may know that in the day the friends church would meet, and all the folks would come to a Sunday gathering and they would just sit there quiet until somebody felt the urge to say something, and then the rest of the folks would either nod or not nod. You could go through an entire service without anybody saying anything.

So, when my buddy said that he was a friends minister, I was thinking, boy, that must be a cushy job. Cushy job, yeah, I reckon. The only time ever in my life, Bill, after 50 years or so. of um ministry, local church ministry. Uh one morning.

I just sort of felt led, I guess I'd say, to have that as an open worship service the whole time.

So I just eliminated my message and we just waited on the Lord, you know, as it is. As it were, and as it was. And after the service, I was talking to a lady, and she was headed out, and she said. Uh I've never been to service like that before. I said, I haven't either.

And she said, um I said, I've never conducted a service like that before. And she said, Well, you did have to do it on the very day that I didn't eat breakfast on Sunday morning. And the whole time, my stomach growled the whole time while we were sitting there. That was God talking to her. Yeah, I guess that was it.

Well, a couple of the services you've done down at the prison, you came in with your music and you played songs that you'd come up with yourself, and you got input from the guys, and the guys just lit up. And it was just absolutely fascinating. I was scared to death. All you were going to do was to have them sit there quiet for 45 minutes. No, no, no, no.

No, I'll tell you what, the harmony. The harmony on some of the songs, we did a couple of old-time choruses and that sort of thing, and a couple of new ones that I put together. But the harmony was pretty amazing, really. It sounded great. Mark, was a time when you had a group that would go around to churches and different events?

Is that up? I know COVID got shot in the foot, but is that back in place? We do have a great worship team made up of folks incarcerated at the prison. Steve, you're right, some talented musicians, some great singers, really talented musicians there as part of the worship team. And, Bill, yeah, COVID.

For a couple of years, killed the idea of the guys going out to different churches and whatnot. We do from time to time do that now. It can be, you know, it's a difficult thing. We have to have volunteers to help us take the men out to the prison. Or out from the prison to the churches and all that.

So it can be challenging logistically, but it does happen several times a year, and it's just always a great time. And the feedback we get from the churches is just very unique. It's not every day that a church has a choir, a band come in made up of folks who are incarcerated, but they sing and they just, it is really true worship. And you can see it on their face, Steve. You've probably seen that as well.

So just a great time of worship.

Now, in the North Carolina system, you go to central prison and then they figure out whether you're a really great guy or somebody you've got to watch. And then they send you off to a camp. And they've got different camps to start with, depending on what your level of cooperation and reasonableness is. And then you sort of work your way up through the system. If you don't get in any trouble, you get to a camp that's a little bit easier to be own.

And if you give them trouble, you end up in one that's a little bit Swampier with bigger snakes. And yeah, our our prison in Forsyth County is one of the how how do you say? It's a minimum security state prison.

So there's there's medium security, maximum security, of course. But yeah, uh Cherry Street, the Forsyth Correctional Center is minimum security. It is designed for, and in our case, it's an all-male prison. It's for men who have served the bulk of their sentence or their crime was such that they can go right to a minimum security camp. It's, you know, I guess you could say you have to earn your right to be there, either by serving time or just good behavior, that type of thing.

But Cherry Street's a real blessing because it's also a work camp where men can go out in the community and work a regular job during the day and they come back in the evenings. They can also go out with the Department of Transportation and work as part of the road crew. And there's also school opportunities at Cherry Street as well.

So quite a number of and And this is all geared towards successful reentry. I think the state does a good job of putting those programs in place to help prepare the men to be financially stable and also get their education while they're incarcerated as well.

So, yeah, it's a minimum security camp. We get calls, the ministry for scythe jail and prison ministries, we get calls, I would say every week from other prisons saying so-and-so wants to transfer to Forsyth Correctional. They want to be part of your transition to work program. We don't have any say in whether they're transferred or not, but Cherry Street is a place where people want to be to serve out the last few years of their sentence because of the programming that's offered by not only the camp but also the ministry as well.

Now, Steve, you've been in the chapel. If you'd sort of share, because our chapel is very, very different than. than most chapels, at least in the North Carolina system. It is, and let me just pick up on what Mark said, Bill, for a minute. Um I was there about maybe a little less than a year ago, maybe a little more than a year ago, but there was a gentleman there that came up after the service, and I was talking with him.

And I like to know, I like to find out who they are and why they're there, et cetera, et cetera. And this gentleman told me that he had been up. At a prison unit, I think in Spindale. Isn't there a unit in Spindale, Mark? He said he had been there.

about two weeks. although he had been at quite a number of other units over the years. And he said that they were upset with him there because he heard about, he heard about. for South County. and the prison unit here.

And so He was g he was there in two weeks, and he said that was his first morning and he was there.

So he've shared some things with me, so I started asking him some questions and uh learning about his background and that sort of thing. I said, Well, uh how long have you been in prison? And It floored me. It took me, it hit me like nothing had ever hit me in my entire life. and he said I've been in prison fifty three years.

And I didn't know what to say. I said, You've been in prison. How long? And he said, fifty three years. And so I asked him, I said, I don't need to ask you why you're here in prison.

He said, No, you no, you don't have to ask me. But the way he he started talking and he said, He said the Lord must have done it because I was here in two weeks, and he said a lot of guys up there and other places I've been. Uh they will apply for a transfer, and then sometimes it'll take uh th three months or four weeks or A year, maybe sometimes, but he said, I was here in two weeks. And so I guess, Mark, that was. Partly for the brightness in his eye was being able to be here.

But part of it was also the fact. that he said this this got to me To my heart, into my mind, and to my life, as much as anything I've ever heard anybody say. There's a Scripture verse that says, In everything give thanks. And I'll try not to be too emotional when saying this, but he said. I thank God I'm in prison.

Because if I'd never been in prison, I may never have become a believer. And I thought, wow. Here I'm coming in to minister to these guys, and they're ministering and encouraging me. Because here's something I believe very strongly, Bill. There's a comment, a quote by C.S.

Lewis. He said, I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. Wow, that's an amazing thing. It's so close to scripture of anything I know.

But when you get to visit with those guys and talk with them, and there are other stories just like that that Mark can talk about very more granularly than I can. Um I I talked to one guy who was uh as I was ministering there. He was a He was a lawyer. And you may know who I'm talking about, Mark. And so afterwards, I said I was doing the story on the Good Samaritan.

And so I asked, Is there anybody in it? Are there any lawyers in here? And he kind of slowly put his hand up in the air, Mark. And afterwards, I talked with him and he. He said why he was there.

And he said, uh, I don't know if you want to know or not. And so we talked a little further and found out that he had Uh you know, had um Misplaced and misuse of money over time. And he said, Don't need to ask me about it. He said, It was a lot of money. But he was there and he had changed his life, and he was going to become, soon become.

a minister. He was working on his online degree at uh Liberty University and I thought it was just just amazing. You have other peop you have other men that come in there and you can you can tell. They not only have uh they not only have a chip on their shoulder, they've got blocks. They've got almost like two or fours on their shoulder that they're bearing, and they're still looking for that light.

And what you do, Mark, and the work there is just an amazing thing. And I enjoy being so much a part of it. Yeah, I a lot of Christians need to remember Jesus giving us the instruction in Matthew about the difference between sheeps and goats and that we're supposed to We're supposed to spend some time in the jail and prison lifting people up. Our chapel in the Cherry Street Compound sits partially on state land and partially off-state land. It was a collection of money from area churches and other individuals, and it's a wonderful chapel that allows a whole lot of citizens to come in and volunteer and make a difference in the lives of the inmates.

And personally, I would much rather see these guys get lifted up and get out and have a good job and become really great fathers and husbands than to get out and have no chance of making it and having to do things that gets them locked back up again. To get back, we're going to talk about ways that you might volunteer in your community. and become sheeps instead of goats. Thank you for tuning in. We'll be right back.

You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits. We're here talking about the Forsyth Jail and Prison Ministry and the responsibility of Christians to make a difference in the lives of others, including those that are incarcerated. There are lots of opportunities out there. There are a lot of state and city jails and prisons that have chaplains, and the chaplains have little or no money.

And you can make a contribution to them. You can call them up and say, look, our Sunday school class, our church, our family, I was wondering if we got you $50 or $100 or $150. Is there a way that you can put it to use? Or are there things that we can gather for you and bring in, like Bibles? And I promise you, they would just be extremely grateful for that.

I remember a chaplain was saying he was visiting a chaplain in another facility. facility and there was a sign up that said something like, don't embarrass either you or I to ask for any personal items. I don't have them to give you. You know, these guys get locked up and they go in jail. They don't have toothbrushes.

They don't have soap. They don't have shampoo. They've got to provide those things themselves.

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but that would really, really, really put a chip on my shoulder. They don't have or given pencils and paper to use or stamps.

Sometimes the chaplain is the source for those type things, and that makes a huge difference. Yeah. In our area and with most of your prison programs where the guys exit from them, they go through a program and before they get out, there's an opportunity for them to visit the community.

So a community volunteer can go through a couple hour course and pass an interview process, and they're eligible to go and check out. An inmate and let them go to a meal or go to their Sunday school class or go to their church or go to a ball game and give them a chance to see what it's like to be in the real world before it actually happens. Just the concept of sticking your hands, you go and wash your hands in a restaurant and there's no place to turn the water on. I mean, who thinks about sticking your hands underneath that spigot? And I got to tell you, there are a lot of places I do all kinds of things under that spigot that still doesn't come on.

But point being, the world has changed so much. from the time that they go in to the time that they come out, that it's a scary, traumatic thing. And the volunteers make it easier for the guys to transition out and to be able to succeed. They're Bible studies. We used to, in our church, would have a box, and once a week would publish a list of things that the chaplains could use.

Writing materials, pens, soap, toiletry. We had people that did a lot of traveling, and when they came back, they'd have all these hotel goodies that they'd talk the staff out of. Point being, there are all kinds of opportunities for you to volunteer. Mark, would you like to speak to some of those? Sure, absolutely.

You did a great job of explaining that, Bill. Of course, anybody can jump on our website, fjpm.org. And you can see a whole host of volunteer opportunities and various needs and that type of thing. Yeah, you mentioned the personal items or the hygiene items. That's something that we are always in need of.

The state at the prison, the state, and then the sheriff's office down at the jail, they do a good job of providing for the basic needs of the men and the women. But sometimes that may run a little bit short.

So we're there to supplement that with some soap or shampoo, toothpaste, toothbrush, that type of thing.

So we can always use that. You can bring that. Uh right out to the Cherry Street prison. Just call uh Call the number and let us know you're coming, and we'll meet you outside the door and collect that. But that's a it's something that a lot of Sunday school classes do, or small groups, or circle groups, or whatever the case may be.

They might take up a collection like that. Of course, we can always use your financial support. We are, like I said, community funded, and that would be a great blessing as well. Churches, individuals, businesses, grants, those types of things. Bill, you mentioned the volunteers, especially the ones that come and they take the men out on pass.

That's something that the state. allows. And I think it's a wonderful program because we in our minds, we think of somebody getting out of prison that being the best day of their life, and I'm sure it is, but it also drives a lot of anxiety because, like you said, the world has changed, especially for somebody who's been incarcerated 20, 25, 30 years. It's faster. Things move differently.

Even like you said, you know, trying to wash your hands at a restaurant might be a little different. We had a guy that came back from a From a pass a few months ago, and he was talking about being in a restaurant, and the trash can was kind of hidden in the wall, and that's not something he was used to. And he was describing his anxiety, not knowing where to throw away his trash.

Something that simple that we don't think about, but that's what those community passes are designed to do to help somebody understand this is what the world's operating like.

So we love to have volunteers come out and do that. You're right. There's a training that has to happen and then a background check and some paperwork and that type of thing.

So you can serve outside of the facility by taking men out on pass. You can also serve inside the facility, whether it be the prison or the jail. Trainings are required for both. um Bible studies, worship services. We do tutoring on Thursday nights.

If you have a skill and experience with uh tutoring math or English or something like that, a lot of men at the prison are getting their uh their GED.

So, uh, and and they may need just some additional help in their coursework work.

So, we do tutoring on Thursday nights. Love to have you come out.

Now, is that Yoke Fellows or is that something different? That's different than Yoke Fellows. And Yoke Fellow is also on Thursday nights right after our tutoring. And that's Yoke Fellow is one of our more popular programs. It's simply a listening ministry.

We have volunteers that come in and they'll sit at a table. And they'll sit with a group of men incarcerated there at Cherry Street, and we'll give them a prompt, just a question of the night. And that question is designed as an icebreaker to kind of get conversation going. But Yoke Fellow is designed to get men talking and sharing what's on their heart.

So often, somebody who's incarcerated just kind of bottles up their feelings and emotions and may not feel comfortable sharing what they're feeling out on the prison yard.

So they are more apt to share in an environment like that with a volunteer where everybody's just talking and sharing.

So Yoke Fellow is a very simple ministry, no special. Experience required. Anybody can do it, but it's a very critical and very strategic ministry as well. Just listening to somebody who needs to share what's on their heart. Oftentimes, those conversations turn spiritual, it's not designed as a Bible study.

but it turns spiritual as well because um Men have questions like you were saying, Steve. They may be searching, they may be wondering, or have a question about a verse they heard in service or whatever.

So it's a great time for those conversations to happen as well.

Now, we're broadcasting all over North Carolina and in the surrounding states, and not all counties, not all facilities offer all the programs.

Now, I would guess that almost all of them have a chaplain of some type.

So just about any facility you can call up and say, is there a chaplain? And then you can have a conversation with them to find out what is and what is not. Available. That's exactly right, Bill. Yeah, I think you're right.

Most facilities are going to have some, either a state-funded or community-funded chaplain or a volunteer chaplain, but certainly every facility can use volunteers. Even if there's not a chaplain present, there's a program staff that would coordinate the volunteers. And I would just encourage wherever you're located, call your closest incarceration facility and see what opportunities are available because it's critical. We're commanded to do it. God has commanded us to reach out to those who are incarcerated.

And I get, you know, I'm blessed, and you guys have seen it, I'm blessed to see every day. uh the difference that Individuals can make on somebody who's incarcerated, and the incarcerated individual can make on us as volunteers as well. Yeah. You know, at the very least, you can ask the chaplain if there's some things that he can pray for, that you can pray for him. It's possible you can just set up a A way to communicate by mail with some of the inmates through the chaplain.

There's got to be an opportunity for anybody and everybody to find a way to make a difference in the lives of those that. are incarcerated close to them. And It's so much better. To help lift these guys up, than to pay what we've got to pay to have them in those facilities. I'd much rather spend my money somewhere else.

We'll be back in just a few minutes. Yeah. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Thank you for watching. Tuning in.

Kingdom Pursuits. We're talking about the Forsyth Jail and Prison Ministry. It's amazing how many churches and church groups that we have that support the ministry in our county. Mark, how many churches? uh help one way or another.

One way or another, we have nearly one hundred churches that either volunteer or provide financial support or prayer support, whatever the case may be.

So nearly one hundred churches, which is just fantastic. You know So many years before me that foundation was laid by those who founded the ministry, And reached out to local churches, and I'm just grateful that those churches have remained involved. and uh we would not be able to do what we do without them. What are some of the things that churches can do to make a difference for the ministry? Churches specifically at the jail.

We ask that church groups come in and do Bible studies. Individuals can't come into the jail. They have to come in as a group, a group of three to five or something along those lines. But they can come in and do a Bible study. That's all coordinated through our office.

And then church groups come in and help with worship services at the prison. And then they also do worship services at the jail. as well.

So those are just wonderful ways for churches to be involved.

Now there's a Circling the jail and prayer that's done every year. You want to tell folks about that? We do that every spring, typically around April or May. And we invite all of our church partners and individuals to come out and we physically form a circle around the city block right there on Church and 2nd Street. We circle up around the jail and we face the jail and we just spend 30 minutes in prayer.

Some are praying silently, some are praying out loud. Just for those that are incarcerated in the jail, so that they can see out their little windows there from their cell that there are people outside who love them, people outside who are pulling for them and want to see them succeed. And it's been going on for decades, and it's always just such a special, special time to be together with volunteers, with different churches of different denominations, but they all come together with one goal in mind to encourage and pray for those who are incarcerated in our community. It's amazing to look up and see the faces in those little windows, and you'll hear all those tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. That's right.

All these inmates all over the facility tapping on a window to let the volunteers know that they're being seen. And they appreciate the. And, you know, not only that, Bill, but I have to also mention we're so blessed with great leadership there at the jail that allows us to do that and allows us to do all the programming that happens. And same at the prison as well. We're just blessed with very good, supportive.

Leadership at both facilities that want our chaplains and our staff there and volunteers there to be providing these programs and services. One of the programs is at Christmas, the chaplains will take in care packages: shampoo, soap, deodorant. writing material and religious material. We do that every Christmas, and then we also do it at Easter. We do two big giveaways, and this is at the jail specifically.

You know, just some snacks and hygiene items, and some, like you said, some different tracts and religious materials that we can put together in a small bag, and then we'll go in and pass that out. Like I said, there's. you know, nine hundred to a thousand individuals incarcerated there in the jail.

So everybody gets a bag, everybody gets a gift so that they know that at Christmas and at Easter at least that they're important, that they're not forgotten and that somebody in the community is praying for them.

Now, when Steve and I get to go to the prison and do a Bible study, we're not fortunate enough to take in a bunch of doughnuts. But some Sunday mornings, churches get to go in with donuts. Their attendance is a little bit better than our attendance. Would you like to share a little bit about those programs?

So we do twice a quarter, we have church groups that come in and do what we call donuts and devotions, and that's right before your Bible study. And it's just a time to come together. It's like a miniature worship service. We'll have somebody that gives a short message. We'll enjoy some donuts and coffee together.

Uh do a little bit of singing. And it's just a special time early on a Sunday morning. We do it from at eight o'clock, like I said, twice a quarter. And it's it's very well received, not just for the donuts, but of course that always helps, but but also just for the uh the time together and the fellowship. Uh it was a time that you cooked uh chickens for all the staff and provide um Thanksgiving meals for all the staff.

We yeah, we do that as well at the uh we we supplement their uh their meal at the prison. The ministry does that and and uh providing some extra Some extra food and supplies for those meals, and then for the staff as well at the prison, then down at the jail as well at Thanksgiving, providing turkeys through wonderful volunteers who have provided those faithfully over the years for the staff. Just to say thank you.

Now, a lot of the listening audience may not be like my family or my church, and you may not have anybody in your family that's ever been incarcerated, and you've never had any member of your church that ever was incarcerated.

So, to the rest of it. Let's remember that there are things that we can do to make a difference in the facilities, that we can lift up the chaplains, that we can help lift up the men. And even if our families are perfect and our churches are perfect, we're still called by Christ to go in and make a difference in those facilities.

So I encourage you to pray. What can I do this week to make a difference in the lives of others through Jesus Christ? Thank you for tuning in. I hope you have a wonderful weekend.