This is the Truth Network. Kingdom Pursuits, where you hear from ordinary people instilled with an extraordinary passion. Together we explore the stories of men and women who take what they love and let God turn their passion into kingdom pursuits.
Now, live from the Truth Booth, your host, Robbie Dilmore.
Well, good morning to Kingdom Pursuit. And just right off the bat, just letting you know I'm not Robbie Dillmore, but I am privileged to today sit in. I'm Dwayne Carson. I have a ministry called Date the Word. And Robbie has been such a blessing to me.
And he asked me if I would sit in today. And this Kingdom Pursuit is bringing back some massive memories because when I was first starting Date the Word, he invited me on to this show to tell about Date the Word. And as we do start today, I just want to let you know we're doing this show on 8-8. And that means think about an eight by eight. That's a solid piece of wood.
And Matthew chapter eight, verse eight is our verse for today, where a centurion has gone to Jesus. And he has said, I just need your help so bad. I've got a servant. He's paralyzed. He's in so much agony, so much pain.
Would you heal him? Jesus says, I'll be glad to. I'll come to your house. I'll take care of this. And then this man, this great leader.
a Roman centurion, a leader of leaders. He says, hang on, Jesus, hold on a moment. I am not worthy that you should come under my roof, but only speak a word and my servant will be healed. And I am just blown away at this man's faith. He believed Jesus could just speak a word over the land of distance.
It didn't matter. He didn't have to be in the present. He didn't have to touch this man. He'd just speak a word and such great faith that Jesus marveled at the faith. But he also had humility.
He realized he was not worthy. Even though he had this high position, he wasn't worthy to be before for Jesus to come into his home. But ultimately, what really stands out is this man's 8x8 love. He had a love for his servant. He wanted his life to be different.
And I hope today we'll have 8x8 faith, humility, and love. And for today, when it comes to kingdom pursuit, I know a man right now that we're going to be bringing onto this show. He has a huge love for the local church. He has a huge love for pastors. And today I'm talking about David Vaughan.
And I want to welcome David to our show today. I believe you're down in Charleston, South Carolina right now, David. Am I right about that? You are right, my brother. And Dwayne, thank you for the opportunity.
Love this concept that with that Robbie has on Kingdom Pursuits. And I'm in a little place called Somerville, just outside of Charleston. A home of golf, god, and grits. Oh, wow. And I got to make sure God's at the top of that list.
Yes. All are good down here in the low country, brother.
Well, we are thrilled to have you on this show today because when we think about kingdom pursuits, you are one that is pursuing. helping churches Uh, be healthy. You have a company called David Vaughan Consulting, and we're going to have you tell about that. But there's, I think, there ought to be a little disclosure here for just a moment. David and me go all the way back to the 70s.
We both were attending Amherst County High School in Amherst, Virginia. We both grew up in a little town called Madison Heights, and David's dad was a pastor, pastor at Sandy Bottom Church. We would drive by that, ride by it on a bus, and David was taking one path with his life. And I was taking a different path with my life. David was walking with the Lord, and I was not.
And David, one day. Um said to me Duane Are you about done living that lifestyle? Are you about done going the wrong way? And that's all you said to me, David. It wasn't, you didn't preach.
You just said a statement that really kind of. pricked the heart. You know, I'm just doing the wrong thing. And then David is married to one of my cousins. And so anytime David and I are talking, he'll say, hey, cousin-in-law.
And so he's my cousin law. And I've been following your ministry for years. You've pastored several churches. You had an incredible ministry just outside of Cincinnati. And because of that, God just really brought a lot of things into your life because you were dealing with lots of difficulties and you had to learn from them.
And from that, you began to, I could help other people.
So, with that introduction, Uh To my friend right now, a man who has helped me become a follower of Jesus. David, tell us about the David Vaughan Consulting. Thank you, Duane. You know, I'm glad you remembered that moment in time where evidently God gave me some words, but it was more the Lord than me. But yeah, it's actually, Duane, Devon Consulting.
And I like to say Devon, although David Vaughan's the primary leader, because my wife's name, as you mentioned, is Donna.
So it could be D for Donna or D for David Vaughan consulting, because she's been doing some coaching of the pastor's wives too. And it's awesome. To see all that, and I'm proud to hail from our hometown of Ambrose County, brother. As you said, I retired from a great really retired from a great church. In Cincinnati, West Side.
And now I'm leveraging the agony and ecstasy of decades of ministry, as one of my pastor friends used to say. Taking all the lessons I learned all this time and really pouring into churches and pastors and. The need has never been great, Duane. I'm really proud, by the way, of your ministry and what you're doing. I've seen it.
I've heard it in action actually. And you are reaching people in unbelievable ways. I'm grateful for you. I'm glad. I'm glad now, way back in the day, I said, Are you liking the path you're on?
You like to pass your own now, though. Yes. And so do I. Yes. But.
We're seeing some trends that I think your listeners might be interested in, and maybe today I could encourage them. I just want you to know if you're listening, I am a church fan. I'm a church fanatic. There's nothing like the church. When the church is working right, there's nothing worse, the contrary is also true, there's nothing worse than when the church is not working right.
And I've been through both. I bet you have too, Duane. Your listeners have. I'm sure Robbie has. Um and so I love the church.
I'm also a pastor's greatest. cheerleader or friend, especially if you're in a small town Dwayne Dye, you know, grew up Amherst County, Madison Heights, south side of Lynchburg. This is not a a a large town. It's getting bigger. Every time I come back I say, Wow It's enlarging.
But if you're a small church, medium-sized church pastor in a small town, We are here to help you. That's really one of the specialties of my ministry. I promise God. And if you ever put me in a position Uh as a large church pastor, investigation. And other small trust guys.
I will never forget. the small church guy. And I've tried to keep that promise. Uh, average church size in America right now, Dwayne 65. That's it, brother.
I think it might have went up two this last year to sixty seven. Uh But that so sometimes I'll coach guys that are at church 150, 200. They think they're failing. You're double the national, triple the national average. Um so my trending uh my observations are small small churches are getting smaller.
Large churches are getting larger The squeeze is in the middle churches. They can't afford a pastor. They can't uh uh do the programming of a large church. And that's a trend.
So I'm observing that in real time. I think the other trend that I'm seeing more than anything else, and it's of concern to me because I know it's in your heart too, Dwayne. Churches are not doing outreach, brother. Yes. They are not doing outreach.
The great co-mission is the great o-mission.
So, with that statement, we're going to come back right after this break. And we're going to talk more about that. Did you know more women under 40 are getting breast cancer? You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. We want to welcome you back to Kingdom Pursuits.
I'm Dwayne Carson setting in today for Robbie Dillmore. And we're talking with David Vaughan of D Vaughan Consulting.
Now D V A U G H A N C-O-N-S-U-L-T-I-N-G.com. That's the website, Devon Consulting. And as you're listening today, maybe you're driving, you can't do this, but if you're listening and you can click onto this website, I encourage you to do so because you can see exactly who I'm talking with and you can learn more about this incredible ministry. And, David, as we went through that hard break, you were talking about how churches right now are not growing because they're not going. And some of the things you do to help the pastor, to help the church, is to re-engage them into evangelism.
But I want to let you, again, continue to tell us about the things you're seeing. as well as the things you're providing to churches. Yeah, thank you, Dwayne. And yeah, jump on the website. I'm hesitant to maybe say that because I'm ugly and I'm on there and I'm bald.
I used to have hair when ministry started, but I think church beat it out of me. But anyway, you are correct, brother. It is to me not the is this a subject And it's maybe the the sad little secret on churches is that churches are not growing. Numerically, they might be growing spiritually.
Sometimes they even question that. But they are not growing with conversion growth. It might be. Transfer growth. One of the dirty loose secrets of larger churches, a lot of they look deep, drilled down.
It's transfer growth.
So I'm all about helping churches and pastors. Discover. They're why again. The why is a great commitment. Because when churches lose their why, they lose their way.
Oh, that's true. And I'm coaching a lot of churches, and they're trying all kinds of different things. They do all kinds of things under the banner of outreach. Duane, it's not right. I mean, I'm we got to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, we got to do all of this.
Managing 28 things.
However, if Jesus is not a part of that conversation, we're no greater than the United Way, we're no better than other any other benevolent organization. A lot of churches, under the guise of outreach or evangelism, try to do social justice issues. I'm telling you. Jesus didn't come just to feed you, he came to save you. He came to meet your real need.
Churches do need to be a presence in the community. Be salt and light. But if that doesn't lead to organizational and personal evangelism, then the church is less than it's optimally designed to be.
So we really help churches and pastors do that. I found another trend these days. Our preachers and pastors are fatigued, Duane. They're lonely. They're under pressure.
And I hope my words on evangelism don't add additional stress But I'm just saying that this is a phenomenon.
So we pay a lot of attention, I and our team, to soul care. Issues And so we address a lot of that.
So goes the leader, so goes the team.
So it goes to pastor.
So we talk about the role of the pastor of preaching and evangelism, but we also talk about the soul, role and soul, we talk a lot about. The the third major trend in Challenge that we face, and those of you listening may be nodding your heads if you hear this right now. It's all in the governance. Uh area of the church. the organizational.
In our world, we would call it the skeletal. The things that support behind the scenes. In most churches, it's kludgy, it's unhealthy. Purchase don't define decision rights. the leaders, whether it be the deacons or the elders or whoever Somebody is getting out of their lane, they're not in their lane.
So we help define the lanes. Churches have unnecessary conflict because of the way they're organized through their policies.
So there are churches that are stuck. Because of governance alone, so we help them break through. Yeah, some of the things I've seen is we start seeing sheep leading shepherds. That's not how God designed the church. He designed for shepherds to believe.
Now, I want to say this real quick. I'm loving what you're sharing. We may have someone who wants to ask a question: 866-348-7884. You can call. And I would love for you guys to ask my friend the most difficult question that could be asked because here's what I know.
He's going to be seeking hard to find an answer for it. But again, 866-348-7884. When you go to his website, D Vaughan Consulting, one of the things you're going to see there right off the bat is developing. healthy churches. And whether it's a healthy person or healthy business, healthy, you know, I grew up on a farm there in Madison Heights.
Healthy animals reproduce. And when you have healthy Christians, they're going to be reproducing. And that's what we're called for. And I love what you're saying, David, that Jesus said, for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which is lost. That's his purpose, and that has to be our purpose.
So now, in these trends, The pastor. How important is the pastor? to this church healthiness. Oh, it's everything. It's everything.
So The the the the heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart. And my buddy John Hampton, who does a lot of coaching with us and force on our team, talks about self awareness there's a difference between being self conscious and self aware. And most creatures are more self-conscious. They're not self-aware.
So, you have to get a little older before you realize, you know, whatever my issues are of my family of origin. creep into my church family of leadership.
So somebody said, Jesus may be in your heart, but grandpa is in your bones. Wait a minute. We do a lot. Yeah, ain't that good? David has a way of putting together quotes.
I get an email every day that has these nifty Piffy, if you will, quotes.
Now, so say that one again. Jesus may be in your heart, but Jesus may be in your heart, but grandpa's in your bones. And you kind of have to figure out how to process through competent Christian counseling or somebody. To help you process your own strengths and weaknesses and your shadowness. your darkness because that will inevitably bubble up.
In the church. One of the sad things was by the end of my 20-year ministry, as I was looking out as I preached, I was looking at a picture, a snapshot of my strengths or weaknesses sitting back listening to me.
So The church health is important and pastoral health is important. And it's not about church growth, it's about church health going. You hit on it well. You've got to address unhealthy hearts. unhealthy habits.
And then the church will naturally grow when we remove the barriers.
So we do an assessment. I just we just did got a new version of it. And that's why I get on the website. You can, I think, sign up for my Phrases for Sages, the pithy axioms that you just mentioned. But also, there's a way to get information on an assessment.
We can actually do an assessment on your entire church. Each member takes it anonymously, takes about 10 or 15 minutes, and it measures. the health in seven key areas of the church. The skeletal we define it as the skeletal system Already mentioned that the digestive system, which is feed what you feed on, preaching, respiratory system, which is the worship and giving system. Muscular system is the serving system in the if it's muscular in the human body.
There's so many parallels to the spiritual body, the serving cardiovascular system in your body. Man, the heart has to be right. Same thing is true in the church, the heart and culture of the church. The nervous system in the body is the connecting system. What is your connection system in the church body?
And then the last, reproductive. Are you making disciples who make disciples? And so adults reproduce.
So we t helped churches and we had a really good price point. Uh next to nothing. To assess that, and then what we really try to do is partner with the church for a year to coach them on the strengths and weaknesses that they discover.
So what I say to leaders, Dwayne, is you make good as a leader, you make good decisions on good information. Bad decisions on bad information, lucky decisions on no information. And so we give them this information. Just got, I know you're going to go to break here pretty soon, too, but we just got a. I just.
Rose. with the help of some others. a free e-book on this seven systems. And if you will email have your audience email me and you can put them in the follow-up notes, David at DvaughnConsulting dot com. David at Dvonconsulting dot com.
We will I'll be glad to send you that free e-book on the seven systems, and it'll give you an overview of what a healthy church looks like. And then if we can help you, we would love that. Listeners, you heard again where to go to get this information. I'm telling you, we're listening to a gentleman that has a passion. For healthy churches.
And that's what we need because healthy churches are going to be reproducing. They're going to be growing spiritually and numerically, which is what I think we see in the book of Acts. And when we come back from break, I want to talk to you, David, a little bit more about what you are offering, but more for a moment, just what created such a passion in your heart for the local church? What generated this desire that I'm going to be a helper to others with the things I have learned? And so this is Kingdom Pursuit today.
We're talking about what does it take? to have healthy churches that are going to be impacting, we're going to go from the community we're in, but also impacting the world for the Lord Jesus Christ. Hear these few announcements, and we'll be right back with David Vaughan of DeVaughan Consulting. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits.
Uh our show is designed to Hear a person's passion for how They want to be used by God and how God is using them to make an impact. And today we've got David Vaughan. Grew up in Madison Heights, Virginia. You'll say, where is that?
Well, it's outside of Lynchburg, Virginia. And some of you may know about Lynchburg, Virginia, because there's a place there called Liberty University. David and I grew up in the shadow of the old-time gospel hour, Thomas Roe Baptist Church, Liberty University. I would end up going there and years later would serve there. David Took a different path where other universities getting his degrees, but then God put him in the local church.
And David, I've forgotten how many churches you pastored. I just know that there was a time you were in Virginia Beach. I know there was a time that you were in Cincinnati, and you took a struggling church in Cincinnati. And uh Uh you just Led these folks to really start reaching others, and it grew. I say it this way: it grew spiritually and numerically.
And I had a chance to come and visit you several times there and was just so touched by how God was working there.
Now, God's got you consulting, helping other pastors, and it's not an issue of, I'm going to come alongside a church that's running 1,000 or 1,500, 2,000, but you'll come alongside churches that are even running 30 or 50 and say, here's what we need to be doing. Here's how I can help you.
So, question, with me saying all of that, question: What really generated in you this passion? to to help the local church, to help the local church pastor. Yeah, Duane, you start on, man. I I grew up in a small church. Again, my dad's a pastor, and I wouldn't be a Christian, let alone a preacher, without my dad in that wonderful church environment in a very small church.
When I was in high school, I was preaching in my home church, Sandy Bottom Christian Church. I mean, you know, we had several thousand, you know, by the end of my ministry in my word. There's no way we would have let a high school freshman preach on a Sunday morning. Right. But they did.
And I looked over my first sermon, my mom's crown. I thought it was because it was good. I'm convinced now it's because it wasn't. But they let me try. Duane, I love small church, small church pastors.
And big doors twing on small hinges, brother. And so those small church hearts and those small church cultures are sometimes rural, sometimes there's a region, but most Searches are small. not because of where they're located, but because of their vision or their lack of vision. And so what motivated me to start doing what I'm doing is growing up in a wonderful church, but it was an unhealthy church in some ways. And I know now why it remained small.
I know now why my dad had so many headaches. And he never let me see. The downside of ministry. He only let me see the glory of preaching, following God with a calling. If he'd have told me what was really going on some days behind the scenes, I probably it probably would have sucked the fire out of me.
So, credit to my dad for that. But it's kind of like your family, Duane. And again, me and you are and my wife's the same family. You don't really realize when you're growing up in a family what your family's like. If it's unhealthy, until you get in a healthy marriage or a healthy environment, a healthy family, and you rally, man.
We were messed up. back then, and we didn't even know it. And so some of the early churches that I was associated with had unhealthy hearts and habits. And my very first ministry was in Chesapeake, Virginia, there, Virginia Beach, Tidewater area. And God blessed us there, but man, it was tough.
And the same thing since in that by the end, it was really healthy. not perfect but healthy. And then I moved to Cincinnati, same thing, took Uh an unhealth a church full of unhealthy hearts and habits. And with God's help, turned it around. I mean, I was good, but I wasn't that good.
God just decided to show up the same time that I did. But we had some people. who were members of the institutional church but their hearts were not redeemed. Listen, those of you listening to me, just because they're in the sea, and just because they got baptized doesn't mean their heart was redeemed or changed.
So we had to confront those Uh those church controllers In fact, I stayed just despite some of them. In Cincinnati, they had systematically, before I came, run off some pretty qualified people. But that's what motivated me, and what motivates me now.
So when I go to a church, I've not met any problem, faced any problem. I haven't already faced, seen, done. overcome, addressed. I'm seldom surprised because they all it's the same people, they just got a different name. in a different face.
Sometimes I'll visit and I'll say, that's so-and-so from that pastor. That's so-and-so from my pasture.
So I think that's the advantage of leveraging, again, this agony and ecstasy of decades of ministry. I early on, Duane, I think I had a disease to please. I didn't want to confront. Most pastors are too passive. They're too nice.
I had to learn how to be assertive without being aggressive, how to be confident without being arrogant. And once I learned that, I became the leader God wanted, and I was not afraid. And now nothing bothers me. I say what I think. I'm kind of the velvet brick.
I'm still kind of soft on the outside. But resolute. Underneath And I will confront some people. Uh, because I'm uh what do I what do I have to lose? You know, when Paul visited, I was at a church.
struggling just last weekend talking to their people and I said, hey, listen, I'm kind of like Paul, the Apostle Paul, here today. Whenever Paul showed up to a town, there was a riot. or a revival. Or both. Or both.
That's right. Or both. So I'm here to cause that and both. And that's what we're going to do.
So That I learn from every church and I apply it to the next church. that we work with and We're working with about 14 or 15 churches. And that's a good number. I have others on my team who helped me, which is great. And would love that.
David at DvonConsulting dot com, D A V I D at D V A U G H A N. We tell people, put that second A in there. V A U G H A N Consulting dot com. And I'll get right back with you. to talk about the assessment or the free ebook or Whatever it is, Dwayne.
But man, I have a heart, and my heart breaks for pastors who want their church to grow. but they don't know what to address first. And we help them. figure out this is pro priority. And the priority is becoming an outward focused church.
You know, we baptize by immersion. Most of your listeners probably do too. But w I've noticed when the water in the baptistry is stirred, the problems are diminished. And they go away. But when you don't have any convergence, when you got nobody confessing Jesus as Lord.
then people become critics. And consumers and not evangelists. And the problems get bigger because they forgot their why.
So keep stirring that water of conversion, of redemption, of a freshly redeemed believer. It's nothing like it when it's working right. And then people get a snapshot all the time. of how the church is supposed to be. Yeah.
As I was listening to you, I'm going to pay you a compliment. I was. I was thinking, man, David, you reminded me of a guy named the Apostle Paul who had the cares of the church. That was one of the things that weighed on him: the cares of the church. And people.
Paul would go to these local churches because he wanted to help them be healthy. And I love that there's what you're saying on the outward. Looking outward instead of always inward. Pastors need to be sole winners. My son is in Memphis, Tennessee, right now, and he's pastoring a church.
And one of the things he just keeps stressing to them is: we've got to be doing evangelism. We're going to a break and when we come back, a couple more questions for David as we talk about church health. You may have a question: 866-348-7884. Give us a call. This is Kingdom Pursuits.
You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits. I'm Dwayne Carson today filling in for Robbie Dillmore and we have David Vaughan who has been in ministry For David, I want to say 50 years. Is that about right?
Well, if you count preaching as a freshman in high school, that would be pretty close. I just turned 65, so. fifty my goodness I'm getting old, Dwayne. But you're getting better. You're getting better.
Hey, man. I'm as fired up and passionate about this and energetic as anything I've ever done. And I think God called me to this season of my life. to move from one large church to multiple the Vixie Church. And I'm honored to do it.
And you were saying about your boy and the outreach. Yes, we would tell churches focus on outreach, put it in an ordinate. amount of attention, resource, Direction and vision into reaching people. Here, I'm going to give you a reading. I know they listen to all these different uh radio shows that expound in expository uh in an expository way Unpack the Bible.
I'm going to give you something from Acts. And some of you preachers listening today, this is On a Saturday, I don't know when you're going to be listening, but you're looking for a sermon. You've been so busy, you don't know what you're going to preach on tomorrow. Here you go. I'm going to give you a whole summary, the whole book of Acts.
In three points. Here's the story of Acts. The prayers went up. The power came down. And the people went out.
Oh, Dwayne, that's good.
So tomorrow we need to say here's what we need to do as act two people. I mean, that's our goal, right, to restore that church. Yes. Well, how much prayer is going up, how much power is coming down and how many people are going out.
Well, I'm going to make a little bit of a plug on my ministry here, date the word. One of the things I've been passionate about, and the reason you and I have been kind of getting reconnected, is because we both have a passion for pastors to be successful, for churches to succeed. And I love for pastors. to have people in their pews praying for them. And on the Date the Word app, you can find a guide for how to pray for your pastor.
And what you just said there, when people are praying. And they're praying for their pastor with a passion. Lord, anoint him. And you can go to that app and date the word. You download the app.
You can go to the website, www.date the word.com. You can see it there also. If you would pray Monday through Sunday, every day, you don't have to pray a lot to have prayed a lot, but you pray for your pastor, you could see God, the power coming down. And I want to go to a church. When I get there, I'm anticipating God working in my heart.
and working in the lives of people around me and when people are getting saved and uh being baptized there it it it's it's there's just nothing more exciting than new birth but it it's we've got to be people of prayer praying for our pastor and and with that too david uh you know the apostle paul when you talk about someone who had a kingdom pursuit romans 10 1 he said it's my heart's desire that he said israel will be saved and i i take that word israel out and put the name of a lost person And if every church member is carrying a burden for a lost person, you're going to see a church that's becoming healthy because they are. They're outwardly focused. Um You're challenging me, David. All of a sudden, I'm gonna start preaching a little bit myself. Amen.
I love your ministry, Dwayne. Date the word. It's such a natural. Evangelistic opportunity that you're teaching people and helping provide for people just on their birthday or what the verse is. And I'm appreciative of that.
And boy, I would use that, guys, as one of those evangelistic outreach-oriented methods that will help. But if we can help you in any way with your church, I work with churches of all sizes, shapes, creeds, you know, Presbyterian, Baptist, Independent, Nazarene, Tangerine. I help them all, brother. 'Cause there's nothing like the church when the church is working right. That's it.
That's it. So so as we bring this show to a close, they can contact you by doing what again? Yeah, David at D Vaughan, V A U G H A N. David at Devon Consulting dot com. And they can email me or get on the website, and there's some different links in there, and it'll.
Send a message back to me on some resources that they may want. We've got an all-in baptism day kit on there that my buddy John Hampton curated. I mean, we've got lots of stuff and resources. We just want to bless people. It's not about the chick, it's about the church.
That's it. And That's our passion.
So please contact us, and I appreciate the Robbie and the Kingdom Pursuits Ministry. Giving me a voice box here, a platform to talk about this with. And there's an email that they can email you to get the seven assessments. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, just email me at my email address.
And this is hot off the press just in the last couple weeks. The e-book. On the seven systems, I can email, and then I can get them in touch with the assessment. Awesome, David. Thank you for your time today.
Listeners, I hope you'll check out dvaughnconsulting.com. You're going to see right off the bat developing healthy churches and what a passion David has. We love you, listeners. Have a wonderful weekend.
