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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Alex McFarland - (What is Biblical Deconstruction?)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
May 3, 2021 4:30 am

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Alex McFarland - (What is Biblical Deconstruction?)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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May 3, 2021 4:30 am

Many of today’s ex-evangelicals are attributing their departure from Bible-believing churches to a process of “deconstruction.” What are the roots of this dangerous 1960s philosophy, what are its false assertions, and how do we respond to them biblically? I’ll talk it over with Christian apologist and author Dr. Alex McFarland. That’s next time on Monday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by Liberty health share liberty.

Healthcare is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that allows you to control and manage your own healthcare and choose any doctor or hospital in the nation. If your freedom loving American looking for contract free healthcare call now 855-585-4237 or go to liberty, health for more information liberty Javid River. Today, our confidence is in Christ alone, the word of God says that I sort is of no not too long ago, the New York Times filed, Abraham Piper, the son of the famous pastor Dr. John Piper.

Now what I call attention to the sign well because Abraham has become a tick-tock star is a very popular and very vocal acts of evangelical which is just a hipper word these days for apostate, but this ask for angelical trend isn't just limited to the children of famous Christian leaders John Stein guard the former lead singer of the Christian band Hawk Nelson, who recently announced that he doesn't believe in God anymore explain on twitter why so many like him are leaving evangelicalism and embracing the idea of D construction. Here's what he wrote in parts were finding that the evangelical perspective isn't working for us. The treatment of the Bible is infallible and unquestionable.

The treatment of the LGBT Q plus community. The perceived lack of will to address racial justice. The absolute bungling of the topic of sexuality. The adherence to doctrines of original sin, and eternal conscious torment. These topics and more are areas in which many of us found ourselves completely dissatisfied with the evangelical churches position or approach. Many are beginning to embrace a new radical. Perhaps her radical idea that humanity and divinity is a beautiful mystery to be explored with open this wonder, and a dedication to non-harm to embracing goodness wherever it is found not necessarily limited to Christianity.

If the evangelical church remains determined to misunderstand, mischaracterize and mistreat the loose community of people who deconstruct then evangelicalism will gradually be relegated to small corners of the faith worlds never to hold much sway again." So what is going on. Well, what were seen is a falling away increasingly fueled by this idea of deconstruction. It's a concept first popularized by 1960s philosopher Jacques Derrida adapted for the theological world by postmodern theologian John Caputo popularized by the emergent church and now hitting evangelicalism with increasing force. Caputo defines deconstruction as a way of making or letting the truth happen, but postmodern theologian Mark C. Taylor put it differently, deconstruction he said is the hermeneutic of the death of God.

It's all a bit confusing which is why we need to examine what's going on and why and working to do that today with Christian author evangelist and apologist Dr. Alex McFarlane and Alex, thank you so much for joining us again. It's wonderful to have you here will pick you somewhat in order to be on and let me do so before we begin to unpack this topic, how much I appreciate the work that you do for Christian fellowship you've ever been compared to William F. Buckley, some people will remember that name, but Buckley vast understanding of so many issues he could address and critique a topic with their yet decisively defending the conservative and Christian positions and in a way to show kind of reminds me of buckling and firing line from so long ago you you are willing to talk through issues you've got your own convictions that are steeped in Scripture as our mine, but I just want to say thank you in a world of soundbite always you actually give the listeners meet that can give them insight and strength then I applaud the way that you do what you do. Alex right back at you. I am no William F Buckley, but I really appreciate your kindness. And of course I've learned so much from you. You are just a rock star in my opinion when it comes to defending the faith and millions of people who hurt you or seen you on the conference stage know that or have read your books you just the best. So I ask you, you have done a lot of work, particularly with young people, and I know you have talked about many times the issue of young people leaving evangelicalism.

Some of these voices that we've heard the nuns in these kinds of things.

What you make of this. Ask evangelical movement.

That especially seems to be gaining ground when people are talking about it on social media what what are your impressions of what's going on. A great question. Great question.

You literally every day of the week. Janet, our ministry field questions from sometimes what millennialism even more recently, should the people would questions and oftentimes parents that are very concerned you know we we don't understand. We raise our children church with group but even Christian school K-12 and now my 20 something is a make sure or you to fill in the blank some sort of deconstruction of Christianity. Some sort of reinventing of some aberrant nonbiblical faith system and out what's what's this all about, will several things in in no particular order, but Janet, I think the people that want affirmed Jesus, but now renounce him. I don't think they were ever converted in the first place right. I question whether or not they had a born-again experience with Jesus and you use the big out word of a minute ago. The word apostasy and in the Greek the word apostasy really is a word analogous to a riot may him chaos and I do think that we are living in a time of within the evangelical world much theological' because rather than acknowledging and heeding the clear words of Scripture people sort of make up what ever they want their truth to be on the other thing I would say you know kids that were raised in Christian homes but not repudiate Christianity. Number one, they probably weren't born again the first place. Number two. We're in the middle you of hyper hypo relativism or will make up truth for herself to suit us, but the third thing that I would say this is this is pandemic. This is the true pandemic is the church in the Western world, certainly, and so much of America does not acknowledge nor live by the clear word of God. Jesus asked a rhetorical question in Luke 646. A rhetorical question at the one in which the answers very obvious. Christ asked this question, why do you call me Lord, Lord, and don't do the things I say and I think the answer Janet is that for so much of the American church. Jesus is not the Lord, because if he wore what John 1313 Jesus said you call me Lord, and so I am well if you were really our Lord if we knew the son of God, we would follow the word of God S that's right exact great point and you know somebody else who comes to mind. A lot of people will think of Josh Harris, Josh Harris was the author of I kissed dating goodbye which sold umpteen copies and then he repudiated it and he was announced. Yes, I've interviewed him as well and he left the faith and he left his marriage, but I want to read a quote from Josh Harris because I think that says a lot at the time that he merely made this announcement. He said I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is deconstruction the biblical phrase is falling away by all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian I am not a Christian to the LGBT Q plus community. I want to say that I'm sorry for the views that I taught in my books as a pastor regarding sexuality. I regret standing against marriage equality for not affirming you in your place in the church and broke a lot of hearts Alex because a lot of people were helped by that book. He was concerned about those who are not, but either way to see someone go from being a pastor and best-selling author and a Christian that not a lot of people admired is suddenly saying I'm going to deconstruction you guys see I'm outta here. Terrible really. Especially like withdraw. I remember nearly 20 years. I helped get them on Dalton's radio show and I was working for Focus on the Family and I interviewed it whether it you know Jonathan Stuttgart or Josh here or even a bit more, yet who now her in a cottage industry is bashing the southern Baptist or max located Mexico had been invited to speak at the national Cathedral been there if they ecumenical/secular religious edifice in our nation's capital. But when he was invited to speak at the national Cathedral. They found an old sermon on YouTube and gasp. Max located in years and years and years ago that magic man and a woman since so he really backpedaled and really apologize for the position is there because we gotta take a short break will do a little bit of a pause, but will come back with Alex McFarland here in Janet this Thursday is the national day of prayer joined millions of praying Americans who are united in prayer for our country connect from your mobile device or computer to the largest online prayer gathering ever is an incredible opportunity to experience the power of prayer as one nation under God.

Part of this historic day, along with fellow Christians who are ready to make a difference by lifting up our nation in prayer and now's the time to answer the call ever gathering in history at the national Day of prayer. See you online and hi this is Janet Mefford. Did you miss the deadline to sign up for a healthcare program at the end of 2020.

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Memberships are for individuals, couples and families offering a variety of options to best suit your medical needs. Discover more about the power of team today for more information call 855-585-4237 855-585-4237 liberty T you're listening to Janet Mefford today no deconstruction. That's what it's all about you guys, we want to be X angelic is no we don't. But there a lot of people out there who are trumpeting their deconstruction process on social media and talking about it in books and so forth. And I thought it would be a good time to go through what this is and how it's affecting evangelicalism at the moment and helping us with that task is Alex McFarland a wonderful author and evangelist and also a cultural expert many other things on his bio but we were talking a little bit about Josh Harris and some of these other modern evangelical figures, Josh Harris, in particular, who had talked about his process of deconstruction, but here you're making a very important point that there are others as well and and it seems to be maybe gathering speed a little bit you and a lot of the Christian leaders suddenly become woke and really distance themselves from the Bible or completely square off to reject the Bible funny Janet how this happened after the megamillion after the conference circuit Admit a name that got a couple comfortable living and job that they you know made their successes out of the wallet of evangelical Bible believing Christians and then they become, you know to to ivory tower to live by the Bible. Let me just say this chanting and I want to talk about deconstruction of wood construction or deconstruction is an important philosophical term for us to unpack, but the bottom line we have a problem of not acknowledging the word of God and let me just say this Janet 30 years ago when I was in grad school. One of the big questions was what about the fate of the art evangelized.

You know what about this question that university let's imagine there's this savage in the jungles and he doesn't know that Jesus and his only claim he was blown on the wrong car.

Yes and it dawned on me one day to put stock in good deserve goodness of a human being rather than in the righteousness and truth of God's revelation is really kind of idolatry incident was bring up to 2021 and I talked to a parent this morning who are stolen after being raised in church now in his late 20s, after having under State University now rejects Christianity and this mom said to me that her son could look I know gay people I know trans people. They are good people and you tell me that God is going to confine them to hell in their only crime is very didn't dress like you wanted them to drift or whatever will. There are so many logical fallacies in a statement like that one barely knows where to jump on the train but paraphrasing my answer to the people. 30 years ago that walked to condemn God because of the spiritual situation of the quote noble savage to put more stock in more deserve goodness and the person that is living in defiance to non-moral truth and revealed Scripture to say will my nephews Gary and gosh golly if if God condemns him. I don't want any part of God eventually idolatry. It is, and James 210. Also, Alex, for whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. I mean, you don't get, you know, it's not like a game show, you get a couple of lifelines. If you've broken God's law unit now okay I'll just give you pass on a the first several tries that's not how it works in with the only reason we know that is when we look as you say at the word of God, the holy word of God which tells us what the truth is, and corrects those feelings and those logical fallacies will let me say all of your your listeners and the sound off topic and maybe a little unusual to throw into the mix. At this moment but I think is relevant won't have meaning what you want want actually mean think this and the word of God shows very specific things and those words mean things and meaning of the words can be known now any kind of a truth claim is what we call a proposition, and all propositions by definition there either true or false. It would take Jesus of the risen son of God. Both either true or false, but what it can't be is both true and false at the same time. No without getting too philosophical. Janet felt philosophical problems yield social problems, moral problems and spiritual problems.

We go to deconstructionism and the rider of the philosophers that came along in the mid 20th century like sort, and by the way John Paul sort common-law wife of 30 years, Simone Bouvier.

She wrote a famous book that some was referenced a lot in the 70s called on the second sex and it was a book that some basically set forth the transgender listener and she said in a one is not born a woman, one becomes woman if one chooses to future what will there even be women and so you gonna listen whether it Derrida or Sartre or Simone to Bouvier or Ellen degenerate and Rosie O'Donnell when you dethrone God and ignore or reject his revelation and also suppress moral knowledge written on everybody's part.

You set yourself up to be the lawgiver, the God of the judge casts good point and it let me talk about Derrida a minute because when were talking about the history of this concept of deconstruction. One of the things that he was saying because his approach was literary. He was seeking to understand the connection between the text and its meaning, and he believed that language is unstable. It's really complicated you can never really figure it out. But here's what I think is actually a very good response to what you've just said he believed that a piece of writing doesn't have just one meaning. The meaning depends on the reader. Now you can see because Derrida's thought of deconstruction was then brought into the theological world by a postmodern philosopher named John Caputo that what happens the emergent church loves this guy by the way, he wrote a book called what would Jesus deconstruct and I'm slogging my way through that mass right now but I anyway, I now have the things I do. But Caputo just made a theological application. Application of deconstruction but think about this for a minute out. You can see how this idea would appeal to emergents when it comes to the Bible and also to ask Angelica as if it's the case that the Bible doesn't have just one meaning.

It means what ever it means to me. You might as well not even open the Bible, because now you've even rejected the idea. Like you said that words mean anything and you've rejected the ultimate authority of what you're reading. When you open up the Bible it some mass and no wonder these people are falling away from the faith in droves of their following this philosophy: the prerogative to declassify any sintered donor now coming out. Believe me, there are a few that I would declassify were in my power to do so would there's not enough St. Louis on the doctrine of hell in divine retribution or syphilis was once from the right of reconciling the goodness of God with the reality of hell and Lewis said there is no doctrine. I would never willingly remove from Scripture, if it were in my power to dish out but it is not Hill in the Bible. Hell was taught and affirmed by the risen Lord Jesus, and it has the support of the apostolic fathers in church history, and Lewis said unit or if God is a righteous God he has to judge sin and those that want no part of God, and those that reject him. God does not force them into heaven against their will, the point being, none of us have the right to cherry pick and remove the parts of the Bible go against our temptation or besetting sin ritual wanted to so's you know that we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight in the sin which so easily beset and none of us, whether it substance abuse, anger issues, lost line pride.

You know Cardinal sin we we simply don't have the right to deconstruct and then re-construct the word of God and just let me just say this God has given us his revelation in tough as nails vernacular because he loves us right in warning us of Hill and in offering us go out the door of salvation. God is not being a bad guy.

In fact, God is loving this by saying repent. Luke 13 three believe in Jesus alone. John 824.

The Scripture cannot be broken. John 1035 and all these people like you. You name some names and and I think of so many more there.

The emergent postmodern woke church. They're not going to break Scripture they're going to find that Scripture breaks them. That's tragic.

Well, this is a very important point in one of the things I want to get into Alex. I want to talk a little bit more about Caputo and his influence on the emergent church, but I want to get into what one postmodern deconstructionist laid out as the six pillars of religious deconstruction and these are pillars. He says that hold up Christianity that need to come down. Number one was the Bible number two was hell. But there are four others that he mentions two very interesting listening to Janet Mefford today. This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by Liberty health share liberty health chair is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that allows you to control and manage your own healthcare and choose any doctor or hospital in the nation. If your freedom loving American looking for contract free healthcare call now 855-585-4237 or go to liberty, health T.

For more information liberty health Mefford today. Here's your host Joe Mefford, welcome back. If you've heard the word deconstruction among these ex-evangelicals. These people who are so vocal out on the Internet about the fact that they left evangelicalism behind her. In some cases they say no evangelicalism left me behind because it just hates the LGBT community and it doesn't care about racial justice is go through all the typical woke categories and try to act as if their own. They are their own little gods. Alex McFarland is joining us apologist, author and conference speaker only read to you. For example, here tweet from the late Rachel held Evans people may know that name. She was a big progressive on died a few years ago. She was a big purveyor of deconstruction. She tweeted out in 2018. Alex healthy deconstruction is like the demolition stage of a remodel necessary to rebuilding, but not the endgame. While here's the here's the point that I need to make here when I'm looking at this postmodern philosopher John Caputo who applied deconstructionism to theology is amassed. This guy doesn't believe in God, he's all into social justice. It's all the woke stop all is just recycling all garbage from before but one of the things he says Alex is God doesn't exist.

He insists while God's existence is a human responsibility which may or may not happen.

This is not deep theology. Alex, this is nonsense. How in the world can you have an entity insisting if the entity doesn't exist and people give this guy credence as if he's some genius and I'm looking at him like you're a fool in the Bible. The Bible sense of the term, you're an absolute fool, but these people look at this stuff and go wow that's really deep man. While I need to follow my own path and find my own truth there heading for a cliff at 100 miles an hour, Alex and as a Christian that concerns me because were talking about souls deceived by the enemy of our souls who is laughing his head off at the fact that these people are buying into this got this garbage really thank you, thank you for being so bold, you're right. All of this philosophizing and you know impressive sounding titles and words and thoughts and semantic gymnastics data got to ask you if God in one thing, let me just said everybody listening. None of this is new really right from the first century to the present day Satan has had ponds that could Scripture demeaned the gospel a reinvented Jesus it's been going on from the first 300 years of the church through the post Reformation era in the 16 through 1800s. Now after dawn when in the middle 19th century there was, let me say no European pagans infidels really bait up the game in terms of blasphemy against God and his work. There were very much emboldened by Darwin's theory that you know as one writer said door would make it possible the intellectually fulfilled faith. But Janet November, some 30 years ago, Bishop John Spong and you might remember Yasin John Shelby spun John Shelby Spong.

He wrote a book called what Christianity must change or die and so understand folks whether it note Spong 30 years ago. I'm trying to think of it as but I'm glad I'm forgetting some of these names because what people that denied Jesus to come and go there for God, but this idea of deconstructing and saying there is no ultimate truth that applicable to all people.

We all make our own truth and you. Here's the irony. Folks, the deconstructionist you can call it relativism you can call postmodernism, deconstructionism noticed two things. For one there there like a parasite that has to have a host they're not setting forth anything new. But there there there taking the sledgehammer to the gospel and then out of the pieces, setting forth their flossy they deconstruct truth and then reconstruct their golden calf philosophy that they dictate craft now Tony oh golly, I can think of the guys nine Campolo but he be a clinic in Poland. He he had one of these books that Christianity must change your God about 20 years ago and then you know like the most recent publishers crop of releases. Now there are more people that under the guise of their penetrating intellect and insight they want to say you thought about how the pillars of deconstructionism. They deny the Bible.

They do not help. They do not, that Jesus paid for our sins on the cross. They deny that there is an answer to the problem of pain is a funny the injustices in the world. To what do we blame injustices and suffering will always quote unquote. The church yes and conservative Judeo-Christian morality fundamental. At least that's what they call everybody who believes the bilayer fundamentalist a pejorative that there ever was one.

We are the villains are all always and you know, here, here, let's talk about these. The six pillars of religious deconstruction. According to this former pastor Keith Giles is all into deconstructionism. He says they are. The Bible.

These are the things that hold a Christianity that he says need to come down the Bible.

Hal penal substitutionary atonement and that is in a what Jesus did on the cross as you mentioned suffering in the world. So basically attacking God sovereignty the end times and the final one is you said Alex. The church said this is what they want to destroy and in its place. What do they become Plato. Now it's just a process man what kind of life is that to live where you're just const you can never come to the truth. Always searching but never able to come to the truth. Does that ring a bell with people from Scripture. Yeah it it's exactly as the Bible describes in your heart breaks for these people because they're so deceived and interestingly enough, Alex. They say another person who writes about this says people who deconstruct their faith usually do not do so for logical reasons that we noticed it's not that they possess superior intellectual skills that lead to places the theologians of the past simply could not delve know people are hurting in church is the church's complicity and authoritarian abuse, misogyny, racism and economic exploitation of the non-Western world, to name a few issues can no longer be ignored.

This is from Josh to Kaiser. Here's the thing Alex they've got issues and they need a scapegoat couldn't be Alex. Some of the hurts the abuse, which is been horrible in some of these churches has it ever dawned on these people that we have a problem with non-Christians, unconverted people in the church and maybe a lot of these people who have done these horrible things weren't actually Christians, but that that's never possibility for them. It's just not gonna blame Christianity honey and to reference one so you not an entirely conclusive man who underscoring the point so I realize what I'm about to say skeptics would dismiss as being anecdotal but allow me for just a moment to be so referential. I became a believer when I was 21 I was a college you get and Janet for the last 35 years I've been in church pretty much Sunday morning Sunday night and Wednesday night and it's been my joy and I give God the glory for speaking about 2300 churches most helpless assessment account. We stopped counting about two years ago, but I was talking to a 19-year-old college student today who passionately said the church has hurt them quote unquote and I said what about your peers in a millennial's in younger and she said 75% of all my friends would never darken the door of the church grew.

They've been hurt by the church or here's my point. 35 years I've been in church three times a week and I and again this is this is my personal experience I realize this is anecdotal for a lot of people. This is not to carry one bit of weight but I've been in church for 35 years and I've never felt like I was quote unquote hurt by the church that is been a lot of churches get well Alex, this is a really important how to get into this in a little bit working I have to pause for another quick break that I agree with you that there's something there that we need to talk about further when we come back, Alex McFarlane joining me will be back on Janet Mefford today, this Thursday is the national Day of prayer. Join millions of praying Americans who are united in prayer for our country connect from your mobile device or computer to the largest online prayer gathering ever. It's an incredible opportunity to experience the power of prayer as one nation under God. Part of this historic day, along with fellow Christians who are ready to make a difference by lifting up our nation in prayer and now's the time to answer the call ever gathering in history at the national Day of prayer. See you online and that when Julia ended a bad relationship she found out she was pregnant after the father told her to get an abortion. This mom was confused and didn't know what to do or who to talk to. I just need that. I got an abortion party annuity broken.

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We are back talking about deconstruction in the church.

The ex-Angelica movements that seems to be growing or at least getting more vocal and what is really going on. I had mentioned before, the work of philosophers Jacques Derrida and then also John Caputo, an American philosopher who has carried this into the theological world. One of the things that he has set his week theology which is a movement he founded week the week theology movement what what what a moniker hi Alex, week theology rejects the idea that God is an overwhelming physical or metaphysical for so there's no God. Instead God is an unconditional claim without any force whatsoever and is a claim without force the God of weak theology does not intervene in nature. So as a result week theology emphasizes the responsibility of humans to act in this world here and now that this is what is driving some of the mentality of the postmodernists who are deconstructing and you had mentioned talking to some student who had said you know a lot of my friends don't want to go to church because they been hurt by the church. You pointed out even in the church for 35 years and haven't been hurt by the church so II don't know Alex, maybe are just not hanging right the wrong around the right people who would hurt you or something. I don't know well I know I need to put myself out there little more and I can get hurt church I would look I would love to figure out what what many students there will be churches hurt me or the church is hurt so many people and also could make. Give me a specific example on there like Walkman where the church treats women really well and are in the first century a woman's testimony was not even admissible in court, and yet who finds Jesus first risen women because of the biblical view that all humans are made in the image of God and equal worth, value and dignity personhood really the state. The treatment of women was elevated by the Bible and so how the church hate gays and wife okay give me an example for it. You know, First Baptist Church of Little Rock, Arkansas. They did not do thing giving example of a church that's been on record. Thank you note left there be any mistake or ambiguity quote we hate gays. Janet, I have been in the right wing conservative conservative.

The Bible Belt South 2300 churches throughout 50 states.

You may think about that. I was talking to my friend Josh McDowell. I love Josh and his great leader and you note ministry is not competition but I really I don't know many people that have been in as many churches as myself will Josh, of all denominations, including Catholic outdone worldview seminars and Catholic Orthodox, Protestant, nondenominational, I've been there I've never, and I would say this with my hand on a stack of Bibles I have never heard a clergy or parishioners use the N word. I've never and I mean I've stayed in the homes of the most conservative deep self Bible Belt people and the not quite as conservative people in the upper Northwest and upper Northeast. I honestly think the millennial's and younger love to say I don't do church because they've heard so many people really think a large degree, their parenting, just a partyline. They've heard it so convenient sir, because to be dismissive of the church is to be dismissive of the Lord who bought the church and it really absorbs one of any accountability. Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking what that does.

It's a way of putting moral responsibility on someone else but themselves besides themselves and yeah I can say is a woman I been in the church all my life and I've never been hurt is a woman. It's not misogyny to say that women can't be pastors. That's what the Bible says and that's not a personal hurt this application to oneself of hurt. I need a safe space. I don't like your theology are the same people who will take the wool club and beat someone to death is a racist, with no evidence, so I get a little weary of that kind of approach will and limited us to and and and by the way a lot of people. I do, and Augustine tells us what is to seek the highest good of another, but people are much more emotive than cognitive know. Yes, yes they feel much more than they fit yes okay some months back, a trainload of heartbreaking things came out about Ravi Zacharias right in and I had many phone calls I had from culture people who are in fact one attorney asked me. He said I accepted Christ under Ravi Zacharias's ministry and I really say that I had hostile phone calls from people who said you know I am not a Christian anymore because Ravi Phil look in a perfect world, everybody would be nice and behave and all Christians would be crushed look.

But ask a lot of young people.

If the wrongs he had been an exemplary Christian would Jesus be moral reasons so that's great that's great if Ravi were an absolute scoundrel, which appears to have been the case, would Jesus be less risen and and we've got to help people understand the veracity of the Christian message is in no way contingent on the performance of the Christians kiss another point Alex along those lines, which I think is important for us to remember. I has been around in evangelicalism long enough to have watched a lot of wolves come and go.

I mean might warrant. He lied about being a Satanist and made a big career off and I used to give money to Mike Warnke. I don't blame that on Jesus. I blame it on my quirky might my own dealings with Mark Driscoll heat. He was a con man and a plagiarist. And what Jesus warned us about these people, far from having back to this kind of behavior. Jesus called out, and Jesus told us that men like this will enter the church so how well do you know your Bible. If you're looking at some of these people going that's Christianity's fault. What what we need to do. It would seem as Christians is to say no when we see a wealth we call amount we deal with that and into me. It drives me back to the to the word of God to say, Jesus, Lord, what did you want us to do as your disciples. When we encounter situations like this and I think some of the accountability that is been brought to bear on people like you know the legacy at least a Ravi Zacharias the truth coming out on that and all the other scandals we've seen, that's housecleaning in my opinion, and maybe you see it the same way. Not sure but that doesn't discredit Jesus like you said he still risen and he still Lord exactly and you I would plead with people who trust Christ who will never fail you. Amen.

Don't trust the Christian who may fail you and Janet got my heroes. Oh my goodness, you know the people that invested in me on some of whom are well-known. Some of her will never be known. The thought of heaven. I've got my heroes, James Dobson, my whole life changed the day James Dobson hired me and suddenly I went from doing youth hotdog suppers to literally being on the BBC in England the first month I work for Focus on the Family nice and while I appreciate the people that have invested in me a human. Your husband included the all of invested and made you've given me a microphone. At times it. We have our heroes, the people for whom we are deeply grateful. But at the same time. My allegiance my fidelity all of my loyalty and belief is in the person of Jesus and listen if every Christian were exemplary that would not make the gospel more true and if if the church did hurt people was some allege which architectures the question the extent of all these claims. Another abuses is one in a second Timothy 37. You know that people are ever learning and never come to the truth but you know James three says don't be many teachers because the teachers will be judged more stringently. But even if the church did hurt people, and I question the degree that people say that would make the gospel less true well made and and I mean when you see for example I you know has said for years that I think some of the sexual abuse in the church that's happened is just her wrist back and my heart goes out to these victims and they really were wronged in some cases but again that goes back to individuals who send individuals who are not held accountable, and they should be held accountable but it's kind of like the American Civil War in some sense when you have a great moral evil like slavery.

The back story is we fought a war to end it and it seems to me that that when you're in a Christian church in the Christian church will deal with that and deal with the sin that's there, that's a positive thing.

I wish we had more time to discuss it. Alex it's just so important that the Bible is properly preached and taught because it is the holy word of God and Alex McFarland really knows how to hold up the word of God for sinners who are saved by grace. It's a wonderful wonderful ministry that Alex has Alex

You can check out more about his books and all he does on the stage conferences at churches across the country grateful for you Alex.

It was so good to have you here. Thank you so much for being with us. God bless you to thank you for joining us and Janet today will do so again until next time

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