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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Dannah Gresh (Raising Daughters) Brian Noble (Peacemaking)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
March 18, 2021 4:30 am

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Dannah Gresh (Raising Daughters) Brian Noble (Peacemaking)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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March 18, 2021 4:30 am

Young girls face any number of difficulties in today's world, from cyberbullying to moral confusion. How can we help our daughters reject what is false and embrace the truth as God gave it to us? Dannah Gresh, founder of True Girl, joins me to talk about her book, "Lies Girls Believe." Plus: Pastor Brian Noble stops by to discuss his book, "The Path of a Peacemaker." That and more on Thursday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This Janet Mefford today podcast is brought to you in part by Bible league international. We want to send 1500 Bibles to Africa through Bible leaves open the floodgates Bibles for Africa campaign. Five dollars sends one Bible and a matching grant will double your gift call now 800 yes word 800 yes word is our confidence is in Christ alone is the word of God says that I sort of everybody great with an like in today's world to be a young girl faced with an avalanche of falsehoods coming at her via the Internet or the local news or the falsehood. She believes in her own mind, while girls have some unique struggles that we can help them to address his Christian moms or grandmas or Sunday school teachers and so were to get some help with that today from Deanna grass.

Dan is the best-selling author, speaker, and founder of true girl formerly known as secret keeper girl. America's most popular Christian tweening events and today will be talking about her book lies.

Girls believe the truth that sets them free and it's so good to talk to Deanna, how are you today I'm doing well how are you friend doing fine. You know you obviously talk to so many girls you hear from so many girls is probably nobody talks to girls on the basis you do as often as you do, what would you say are your greatest concerns today about the lies that young girls are believing what what is going on right now. I think one of the things that we can see and symptoms of the light and we don't even really realize that there symptoms of the lies, but today the average young person between the ages of nine and 17 scored high on anxiety scale for children who admitted to clinic for psychiatric disorders in 1957 second by an emotional trauma for girls that age and even those been up about the year 2006, which I don't think it think that that goes back to the creation of social media and compare then and pressure in your brain. Just being on screens all day long have girls in this condition that's really alarming that in the 50s.

We were that you need real help any medical intervention and widget fan.

Hey, it's normal. Go on living life and I believe it a crisis and it's an evident that there are lies in her little heart.

What's interesting about that is your lot. A Christian parent saying well I need to get my child of social media get off Instagram get off Snapchat get off whatever social media you use that is making you freak out but there is an addictive nature to it, and tired of hearing semi what you say Christian moms about you know that the issue of a phone. We have bought into the house have this conversation actually with one of my daughters yesterday who is trying to say that phones are necessary and I said no phones are nice but they're not necessary and I was reminding her you know your great grandma never had a phone that did as I was back in the day of signing what you do about that mentality that it's just you have to be on social media. If you're younger on that. Well, the risks really demonstrate that it's not wise that there is an uptick in eating disorders, body image issues, depression, side even has increased dramatically and is being linked many factors contributing to it, but being linked.social media is one of the factors in screen use really even the creators of the apps themselves know that there is a certain age when our brain is ready to turn three outlets, not real you know when you really are left out or you just feel left out and don't like don't really mean anything and so that the most all the social mediums say that you should not be on social media before the age of 13, and even after that age.

Those first two years have to be really closely monitored. They're not quite ready and even some governmental that advised that hey listen these people creating this stuff legally allowed for from somebody before their 13th birthday because of their brains aren't ready yet Panther overriding and disregarding that when we did our survey for mom guidelines.

Girls believe in the life ghostly project we found that among Christian moms about 42 to 41% of 12-year-old girls had smart either had smart phones with Internet so we can assume that they using that but they don't need to have the Internet package on the smart phone or they have their own personal iPad or tablet with access to the Internet so were disregarding the advice of the creators of the apps themselves.

When we go on there and you have to know that when you disregarding that advice you are putting your daughter at risk of being emotionally unstable. The bottom line. And a second are truths. It's true though, so how does this tie into some of the lies, the girls are taking in these days.

Obviously a lot of the lies that girls believe are lies that have been around since time immemorial, but what about your concerns regarding lies that girls are taking in wherever the source happens to be in trying to show them where lies are coming from and going back to Genesis and talking about the original liar yet. So what about emotions that outlets for which I got anxiety, depression, all that stuff and you look back at Genesis and you see that emotions their good tools from God, he gave into it he created them. And when he made his therapy declared it is good over everything.

So our emotions are good tools from God, but they are supposed to help us discern what is true and what is not true. And so when Eve started to feel feel emotional that's the word anytime you start to feel something you should say what method is God trying to send me right now that she started to feel stuck, she started to feel maybe insignificant because we don't really know what she felt that she talked to the serpent the serpent says hey you know you be like God. The did she start to feel like hate. Maybe God is being truthful with me and he doesn't want me to be like him, and maybe I'm not enough.

I don't know but it read between the lines. It looked really like even doing a lot of feeling good thinking because she knows what's good for children from that tree. She doesn't do that.

And so when she stand there and she begins to dwell on what is being said and that's a really significant thing for all ages, but for this age group.

It's not MS it's it's not your fault that you might see an image and say hey I don't feel like I look like her. I'm not enough, but it is your fault when you like hey every time I find myself on social media. I start feeling secure about myself and I wonder you like me and I feel the pressure to post something that everybody can comment on okay something strong that when you back the way you say my emotions are starting to dictate what I think about is on. We dwell on something that's when we're at risk of believing a lie. So Eve dwelled on the fact that maybe God doesn't really want us. He is withholding something good from us. This made history is good, and maybe this tree will make me like him and he will make me wise and she listens to what the serpent says it wasn't her fault that she heard the serpent that she should've run for cover. Instead, when she dwelled on it start to believe the lie that my life would be better with this piece of fruit and isn't that kind of the lie. We believe time my life would be better with the social media that's what you're just saying that that crux of the conversation is we can't live without my life would be better with it. Well, maybe that's a sign that there's a line in your heart and the lie ultimately is about either. I'm not enough for God is not enough right now is come back that I forgot is not enough without this.

I'm not enough and God can't my life couldn't be complete without social media because God couldn't possibly meet my needs. Any other way always comes back to that. I think the pattern of what we see in Genesis 1, two and three and how Eve and Adam responded, the serpent that bonded God guidelines that answered all our questions about how we are still living in emotional trauma and lies and acting on them and thinning today. Do you have specific guidelines data that you tend to recommend to girls as to social media use, how much you should do at what age or ignored you kind of try to let the parents decide that well always say listen. The first rule is, let's obey the rules right right know if this social media creator.

This thing is not a good idea before your 13th birthday.

Then trust that because then I can definitely make something and say hey would be a good idea if you didn't buy my product and make me money or use my product and make me money, unless it really isn't good for you, so we should be trusting that in the next thing is will how you know if you're ready when you 13 like why that and I don't think the age is the number or are the standard by which we should judge I think responsibility is so when your child has demonstrated hey yet they are making their bed in the morning they are doing their homework without being harassed. They are feeding the dog the dog doesn't die because that's for sure those are good markers of your child's developing with possibility is that means they might be ready for the responsibility of making good decisions on the Internet that's good working to take a short pause dresses with us will come back talking about her book lies. Girls will you stay with us you listening to this is Janet Mefford for Bible league international engaging the world with God's word for more than 80 years, believers in Africa are hungry to read their very own Bibles hear from Pastor Jeremiah in Zimbabwe. The charges clean very fast in the north part of the country with the speaking people and speaking people. And then you know fund that is the movement of the dispute, the way the hunger or hunger is pretty much the supporting if you can imagine 10 Christians right now in many places in Africa. On average, nine have no access to the Bible hears Lillian in Mozambique. We went to the house because of the touch. Had a boat about 100 people under one possum of the Bible was the pasta but everybody else had never seen a Bible and that fuses motivation once more to do more to reach as many people as we can know where going to go there and just stick the web through Bible studies and resources that introduce people to Jesus Christ by the leak is faithfully discipling new believers in Kenya, Ethiopia and many other African countries. There is an evangelist named Joseph in South Africa.

We were even there is about 66 to treat as a soul cry melts down and she tried 60 should never hit a Bible.

So much for fittings just to see people like dressing when the Bibles you can be the answer to a Christian praying for God's word through open the floodgates Bibles for Africa. Five dollars sends one Bible $50.

Send 10 and a matching grant will double your gift and help us reach our goal to send 1500 Bibles. Call 800 yes word 800 Y ES W ORD or there's a banner to click Janet Mefford.com you're listening to Joe would never know where back I Janet Mefford today, thy word is truth. We know where the source of truth comes from and that is God Almighty were talking with Danna Gresh.

He is a best-selling author and founder of true girl, and author of the book lies girls believe which we are discussing and this is such a conundrum. I think for a lot of Christian parents.

The lies that young girls believe you get into a lot of these lies Dan, I want to go over some of these with you just so people can get a feel for what you're talking about here, but when talking about, even as you were a few moments ago and how Eve and her feelings got her into trouble when she started listening to the liar the serpent in the garden of Eden. What you find to be some of the biggest lies that young girls you talk to are believing about God does it come down to God doesn't love me enough or is it I don't trust him. How does it tend to play out when you talk to girls about God and their views on God. Well, we surveyed 1500 tween girl like them every day we are on tour all year long hitting about 100 years old living in girl world all the time because I knew where the lies might be, but we wanted to pinpoint with accuracy. So we surveyed 1500 of them and one of them that really was bad and alarming to us was the lie that God loves me. I know they knew that God loves them.

They were sure the vast majority of them knew that God loves them but they absolutely a very significant number of them believe the lie that God only love me when I'm good and isn't that true of us as adults.

To that, we carry shame in specific areas of our lives that make us feel really distant from God, and that was interesting to us that this was popping up at such a young age and girls aged 7 to 12 that they like. Hey, I didn't obey my parents are.

I have this secret about it.

Sometimes it was silly things like I'm not supposed to read in my bedroom after my mom and dad let me end, but I have a light and that I turn on I read under the covers and so I feel like God doesn't let me and my mom and dad don't let me when I do that and wow if Satan can put them in the place where we hire then because when were bad we can't be loved. Then he put us on a trajectory of a shame filled life of hiding and anytime were hiding staff were knocking to live in the grace and freedom that God needs for live and when I can get the help we need when we do run into really big, bigger, scary thing is a lot worse things. The girl continued and read her book disobey her parents. After the lights are turned out soon and so when she 16 or 20 and she gets into a much deeper place where she needs to tell her parents of the temptation she struggling with. She's not to do that unless we rip up the fly and alert. The truth is that God loves us all the time no matter what. Romans 58 says that he loved us while we were still sinners know clearly the love that we do bad things that we want girl to know that God loves them unconditionally right, how can you possibly miss the truth of God's love. When you look at the cross he sent us Jesus because we were sinners. And that's again they can expect to be sick. Bible truth when you think of first John 19 if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. It seems to me that that the the awareness that a young girl would have about when I'm bad I'm in trouble. That's not a bad thought in and of itself to use to correct that girl and say but your awareness of sin is what God put in you so you would repent and confess it and he will forgive you. I mean, there's a happy ending. If you can follow that thought process all the way through exactly that awareness that guilt is a good tool to bring us to confession and repentance to write a letter to him when it turned in a hiding then it becomes a tool of the enemy becomes shamefaced and why rip that up as quickly as we can buy the group.

That's right. What about all of these pressures as we talk about social media earlier little girls out. The girls never outgrow this but you always want to, you know, look your best in all that model is so pretty and I don't look anything like her that there's a lot of disk that goes on and it's quite intense when you're young girl, I think especially you dispense with some of those lies that girls believe that I'm not valuable.

Nobody I'll never get a boyfriend because I'm not as pretty as her in the age of selfies. That's gotta be torturous for a lot of these young girls yeah and what will that there is increased depression and eating disorders as a result of this healthy culture that they live in, and we can really correlate that those body image issues. The average eating to disorder clinic patient and 20 years ago with 15 years old and that was before social media and the things that now the abrogated and you and their patients as young as five years old in there so pressure to be beautiful has really increased dramatically with Photoshop and then in the lighting and in picture perfecting and so it's really important that we allow these girls to know the truth. I mean, God created our desire to be beautiful. He expresses himself in beautiful in beauty. That's why we have a beautiful world to look at. So beauty is not bad but when you fixate and hyper fixate on this external beauty or comparison or standards that are not attainable, then that really becomes unhealthy and her hurtful, but we finally surveyed the girls was a deep lie and now is if you're beautiful your worth more. So what really is at the heart of it is what is my worth.

When they're thinking I'm fat and I'm ugly. I like my freckles. I wish I was taller from the things they said to us.

We really had to start taking their worth to a different place not their face, nodded their heads, but their heart and so in the book life girls believe we focus it on a real simple verse for payment 16. Seven. The Lord doesn't see the way we see them we had. He doesn't see people and things the way we we see them people judged by outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart and if we can from a young age help these girls see that kindness and helpfulness in a quiet answer unselfish response when you don't get the things that you want those things are are more beautiful than the outside stuff and I catch myself because with my own daughters. I love to tell them that they're beautiful because I look at them they are but I challenge. As I wrote this chapter and thought about it I was like wow I want to be the mom you complement them when their kind. I want to be the mom that complement them when they're submissive I want to be the mom that tells about you so beautiful that you allow that person to shine when you have a lot of talent and you credit had that moment to you but you let them shine. We need to make sure that we are balancing our probably over emphasizing their internal beauty as opposed to their external beauty. That's really smart because I was going in that direction when you talk about how to help your daughter help your little girl the experience or the comments of their peers matter so much to them, especially when their tween's how much of a difference to the parents make just in making those sorts of comments encouraging comments at home, because I think there many parents who think will my daughter doesn't really care what I think she's 13 minutes she only cares about a friend, but I don't think that's completely true. I think we make a big difference in everything that there been several surveys about the sexual habits of teenagers and what influences them most and what themes and points them more than anything and nobody hardly believes that Huntley get deep deep into the science, the social science and see why is the opinion of their parents when their parents are saying and how to talking to them in one survey by USA Today. They asked teenagers where you will learn about sex and 80% of them said mom and dad and so I think they're looking to mom and dad for their value formation, whether that beauty that's relationship so that that theology of gender what we say and think matter to them and they are aware that it matters to them and so I think when we sit down and really get into their hearts on those issues that influences them really really greatly yeah and really getting a solid foundation for your daughter, or maybe a young girl you care about you work with a church or Bible study or something like that when you are starting out to try to say I really want at this critical age this girl who is between now to understand Jesus loves you.

Jesus died for you.

He rose from the dead, and that makes a difference in your life, what would you say to that particular woman or or father or mother what have you. Who says I want to give this child a solid foundation that will help her through the tween years to understand that her you know her foundation being in Jesus Christ is absolutely everything and will help her sort out the truth from the lies well hardhearted parent and that's what we want and that sad thing is when on the driver stated that decision. They are yes as I surveyed it was really interesting. I said mom hey mom did a Christian mom to want very much to do what you just said right hand are tween girl today in more trouble, morally, then when you are tween and 80% of them said yes I said what about your daughter is she more trouble than you are. 80% of them said no she's in. She is doing better at that weight that kids can't have both of those answer then everybody be right there because 80%. Somebody's daughters have to be in trouble is not just the world, our kids showing up the statistics. So I started talk to them about areas of like submission, like the were having a problem in that area when I first talk to them about your daughter value the roles of wife and being a mom or like now 11-year-old you like hyper consumed with her career ready and she feels the pressure what college she's going to go to so I think the answer your question kind of a backwards way but I think help and really gets the root of it is the first thing we have to do is realize that our kids are at risk as much as we were. Our kids are at risk as much as everybody else's kid the enemy doesn't play fair. Just because they're growing up in a Christian home doesn't believe them not to believe lies is because our homeschool doesn't mean enough to believe lies. We found that homeschooled girl tentatively different kinds of lies that they were still believing lies still hurtful admitting in humility is a Christian mom there, but by God had that if you don't do that you're in a mess really important cues when your daughter is in trouble or when she's ready. Make important decisions like about her faith about what he believed. The starting humility that is the first death. I think in helping our daughters live that fulfilled Christ like good advice to and aggression lies girls believe is the name of the book. You can check out my true girl.com so great to have you with us. Thanks again for being here.

Later on I got my seat this Janet Mefford today podcast is brought to you in part by Bible league international. We want to send 1500 Bibles to Africa through Bible leaves open the floodgates Bibles for Africa campaign.

Five dollars sends one Bible and a matching grant will double your gift call now 800 yes word 800 yes word use is your host Joe Montana never today. Romans 1218 says, if possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Now this is an interesting verse because of that clause if possible but yet we Christians are to be peacemakers because we worship the Prince of peace, who is our peace. Is there a way though to have healthy relationships, conflict resolution, and a life of peace based upon biblical principles were to tackle that today with Brian Noble, who serves as the executive pastor of the Valley Assembly of God church in Spokane Washington. He is also the Executive Director of peacemaker ministries and is out with a book called the path of the peacemaker, Brian.

It's great to have you with us. How are you today I'm doing great how are you doing fine thank you for little bit. For those people who don't know much about peacemaker ministries what you guys are all about what you do all right for the last 30 years. Recent help equip Christians respond to conflict quickly in a simple form. We create cultures of peace and productivity. That's great. That's well said very condensed.

I love it.

So when you when you talk about dealing with conflict in churches. I'm sure that there are all kinds of conflicts that come up.

But a lot of people will say well you know when outside help is needed that the conflict in your churches to the point where you can't resolve yourselves while difficult servant leadership would become were oftentimes called very late in the game and the reality is we all meet at times we can brainstorm with someone else or talk you would idea, having been a pastor for 20 years. Not that I have every idea in the world but I feel a lot of situations or maybe earlier we can have simply a brainstorming session with a pastor or group of elders to try to resolve the conflict, but if you're in major conflict is going around and around. It's very important you give us a call. Matthew 18 clear to get outside help the week we can help each other. The body of Christ move forward in the things that God would have and get you back on track for sharing the gospel with people well again. Anybody who's ever been in the church in their lives will know that there is often a lot of conflict at the church level, whether it's little conflict or major conflict. I'm curious to ask you though what are some of the most common sorts of conflicts with which you guys deal when churches call you. What are some of the most common things that are the source of conflict private primary conflict would be between elders and the pastor oftentimes different expectations, especially where maybe an older oral board with whatever title you local congregation, especially when a board is been silent for a number of years the baby did say what they truly thought and then all of a sudden they start saying what they think of.

And now there's tension because the pastor has thought about behavior was acceptable for extended period of time and so back. Typically what we see in conflict and the type of phone calls we get there are the rare exceptions where either child and her brothers been embezzled that door there's been those kind of extreme situation, but a lot of it simply has to do with how does the pastor interact with your board order elders or deacons on the polity.

Yeah. Is this oftentimes or is it most often happening in independent churches that cannot appeal to an outside denominational body that is very, very common, so a lot of nondenominational churches don't have your phone to go up to, but I will say that I probably 60% of our casework is with that type of organization. The other 40%. It is with those who do are are part of a denomination denomination called and said we we simply want someone who's neutral outside insight that can come in and help us understand the culture that has been created to help us understand how to transform that culture into something new. It is thriving again and so we do. Suitable five. But oftentimes it is when you local congregation have no one to appeal to the final decision right to just one piece they do. They just wanted all resolved and he yeah you talking your book about a path to a lifestyle of peace and you talk about these different steps. I want to talk about the steps of tension.

That's where it all begins, but you actually have also said it can work for you. Tension isn't always a bad thing, can you outline what you're talking about there when you are talking about tension and where the path to peace begins. Absolutely.

Often when churches we spiritualize a lack of and yet our Bibles were filled with stories where God uses tension to bring about better character to bring about a better circumstance. People who honor him for in James chapter 1.

Consider it all joy, my brother, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And it says that let endurance have its perfect result, so peacemakers like the healthy tension brings us closer together and unhealthy tension pulled apart and and so God uses those tension every good and perfect gift comes from God and he uses those tensions in life form with the character that he needs to move it for so many of our organizations or churches that we have you know that they don't allow healthy tension or healthy dialogue speaking the truth in love and so they can't get plateaued, and what we need to do is begin to embrace the healthy stuff and negates unhealthy stuff yeah that sounds great. I'm a little unclear that what is healthy tension tension in the healthy category. Explain what that is about helping agendas like I am shortly. I never healthy kitchen is clear communication but is filled with with with the gospel. So sometimes is crucial because we want you guys yes you are pastor space what they extra drug you know this is how I feel behind her back.

We have much more of an articulated viewpoint of what is quite right at the healthy tension is living authentically but with compassion, and it brings us closer together. We like you, for illustration of vodka a Sunday school class that one wants to go through a Roman that all want to go through John and and really vector both great books in the Bible, but we need to have a dialogue of what would serve the people. The best and sometimes we avoid the dialogue or we create you from the classes of you know, we divide the church or what have you. You know that they not be about option if classes may not be about option but you avoid in the conversation instead of really coming in and say glisten like what what our people need art, you know, how can we serve them best and bring the gospel.

I think healthy tension collaborative it up about the you didn't have tension in the football game would be a very boring day.

Yes, but what makes it exciting.

Those you don't work were all headed down on the field in the same direction on calling the plays in the shop as we go and were all you know, as in Romans chapter 12 were all functioning of the roles of God's given us to Buddhist boards of the gospel goes out and so that's what healthy judgment understanding of our our blind spots.

Many, many of Paul's writings towards the end of his book he creates tension.

When you throw so-and-so deserted me, and he mistreats tension of ability for yeah now this is interesting because when you're touching on the subject of not wanting to address things.

I think that's a pretty common thing.

At least it is in the churches that I've attended over the years because our Christians were nice. We don't have a right we don't want to bring anything up.

And yet the tension persists. It's just unspoken. And then it seeps through oftentimes in bad ways. So how much do you see that sort of thing being the main cause of the conflict that had you dealt with it early on in a straightforward way probably would not have risen to this insane level that it becomes later exactly what we find most churches elders or board conflict silent for about four years. Oh, really they can face violent like 10 years but most the public for your and then they rise up and say their opinion will what happened is I had so many pastors tell me that they never told me that it was a problem. My leadership was a problem. They never told me that when I get this drove everyone and that I believe am I right, and although assessment the board member would say no.

I never said anything, but now they want to call for the resignation over something that never spoke about.

I meet are not trying to make it simplified, but you know it's like really like if you would address that the first time it happened. You'll pastor when you get up, get them preaching and you immediately leave the church etc. submitting that you don't care about us and we would really appreciate it if you would go with the people, but instead they let go on for four years or five years and then the like while you you have a pastor's heart. Oh my goodness you know or I can give you other examples you know what like that. Yeah, crazy right we do need to pause for a quick break will come back with right elbow.

The path of the peacemaker is his book will return right after this on Janet today hi this is Janet Mefford for pre-born women in crisis pregnancies today are often under tremendous pressure to abort.

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We are to pursue peace and Brian Noble is here to help us do it. The book is called the path of a peacemaker. He is also executive director of peacemaker ministries. I was laughing a little bit Brian before we went to the break because you are talking about the fact that oftentimes with conflict, you'll have elders. For example, never outlining the expectations that they have for the pastor and then not saying anything for years and then all of a sudden you know you're in trouble and the pastor says you never told me anything and I thought, with the example you gave of the pastor leaving right after the sermon and interacting with anybody. My first question would be why is it that the pastor doesn't want to stick around after the sermon that I mean that right there seems to indicate their problems that are unspoken. While we forget that pastors are the right rate for some pastors better introverts and summer extroverts right yes and and so sometimes it's taken all of their energy just to get up in front of a group of people associate their introverts and so very soft that there spent by the time they do not sermon they need to recuperate and forth like how do we have that give-and-take will we create expectations that really help people and understand each other. Others of our extroverts like like me. I get drained when I'm traveling by myself. I get drained need to be very good.

I love being around people but that that's just my personality is not make one better or worse and and sometimes I am the opposite I can be annoying to calm down and so but we need to know those blank spots I can report one time a board member Brian, you realize that when you walk in the room. Oftentimes you would've dominated the conversation, thank you so much for sharing that because I didn't realize that they had and it was like I need to serve others by being a little quiet, been engaged in what you know what others are saying not interrupting you so we all have our blind spots and work together as a team we can grow in those things that help yeah that's really good and it seems some of that could be alleviated if these elders put it in writing right I mean there will be things that wouldn't come up that you wouldn't think about, in writing, but this is the expectation we have for a pastor. I mean do you do a lot of that kind of stuff saying come on, put the stuff in writing and when the. The pastor takes the job he knows exactly what the expectations are we. We are one of things we outswim when there are conflict will say can you show your share your documents with your your bylaws.

Your job description of your key performance indicators your week. Want to see the bank and portray the reality of how the bylaws but nothing else on the how the competition but I feel and and and then off it will have one class on rugby and and all the time of quite a difference between it when it actually read the documentation and their implication of them and so you know, I just found a manage pastors laying out those key performance indicators is so important like we want a holistic pastoral approach. We want you to engage the whole congregation. No matter what age the person is in front of you.

That's what we call you captors if you're not here just to manage you.

You're here to love the elderly. You're here. Do you love the baby you all everything in between your pastor the whole thing to focus on Wednesday night on the you but but on Sunday morning. We want you stop being a talking to people and engage you clarity, that's good, that's really good.

Everybody's coming from a different background. Everybody is you talk about under the story word that your your outlining your plan for peace and you're talking about that, the story where you're coming from where the other person on the other side of the conflict may be coming from those kinds of issues, but ultimately I know you're really emphasizing going back to biblical core values. I'm curious about that when you are guiding a church along the path of peace and you're trying to resolve a conflict or at least help them to resolve the conflict.

What core values do you stress to them as you're working through it will often have we look at what they've already they've already declared right so a lot of a lot of churches have core values that they written down and a lot what are they and more often than not lately, so we haven't written down somewhere. Let me find my goal.

I dug out will get that before we get that.

Just tell me what what is the natural byproduct of your church and they struggle with struggle with those things. So we bring them back to four things that father is with them battling fathers with the present that God's character is a character you the good God, and that our identity is in Christ Jesus, and that we are called peacemakers right and that's identity as well and and so we bring him back to those for things like God is with you during this conflict is a good God, and that you are a child of God, that you because of Principe peace dwells within you. You are naturally peacemaker and bring him back to and then we try to reemphasize whatever breakdown agreed upon. You know those values that they have that's so important because if you're not building everything upon the foundation of the Bible.

Where are you and that that probably is a problem of drifting as well. I would imagine some congregations it is. It is in this part were doing some ordering, casework and casework church will will will say I do not want to stop and were to pray for each other every scriptural reach other and what's interesting is here we have two people who maybe are gossiping or slandering or seeing unkind things about each other now sitting face-to-face there, praying with each other through my need a chart of other children of God and all the failure they start crying because the thing that they remember most was the injustice they did the social media poster they made, or whatever it might give whatever situation and now they're saying you know Margie you are a child of God. I want to remind you that your back and forth. I pray with you yes was pray together and there's a lot of different traditions of how that takes place, you know, in different movements, but but we allow them to express that in those ways. Words like in and the printer had a vapor out loud, but they they pray for each other and encourage each other. That's important.

That's really important you know what else I really like that you talk about is the power of overlooking, you know, you don't have to turn every molehill into a mountain. What sort of advice do you give to other Christians about, you know there's a category we can just let it go.

How do you guide people on that because that line is different for everybody. It is really you know that proper talk about programs glory to overlook an offense it doesn't give the systematic you like, what is the measurement when you overlook right here.

Here's a couple things that peacemakers is offending God.

If someone is offending God against God, you know, we have other scripture that says go to the right so you overlook that is a repeated pattern of behavior right we we want to go to the members repeated and then and then finally in my carrying that offense on a day-to-day basis for the consul he dwelling on it.

We need to talk about it. So those are kind of our three criteria natural you know is it is something that's hurting others are either hurting me and and we will come back when we talk to hopefully with the gracious position yeah that's really important because you want to try to bring people together. If you can, and I don't know people know people are sinful. They can get stubborn they can be unreasonable. We all are like that at times but you know there are those conflicts that don't get resolved. We see this every time we read about a church split door we see a past by leaving or whatever there was a scandal.

What you doing peace isn't possible and you're faced with a church that's kind of a bombed out emotional mass because of one conflict or another and has to find a path forward to continue to exist and to continue to be faithful to the Lord. I know it's not that can be a really precarious situation. Even eternal perspective, we will have more days with that group of people hold complete because will be an eternity with them and the work that Jesus does based upon creating great that we have nothing to do what you know that we will have that opportunity to have an eternal perspective, eternal hope, and secondly, we have examples of Paul and Barnabas were they had a separate for a while and and that's on the side of of heaven and and in all of our fallenness. We also know that Paul later on in Scriptures kind of acknowledgment.

Bambi overreacted Marcus with me jacket you know or whatever and so I would just say to you that sometimes we need a timeout as adult and not okay go to go.

We should really be able to work through our differences because it's not based upon the gospel and and then if nothing else, we have eternity to look forward to and I'm always careful on this because there are situations where domestic violence have you have, or abuse, physical abuse is not there's nothing wrong with giving yourself to a safe place. You know, and I know that sometimes abusers use the Scriptures to their advantage to make people feel guilty and I would you know be careful that get outside help get someone to make sure that you are very good advice. Very good advice. The path of the peacemaker is the name of the book. You can check it out it peacemaker.training Brian Noble spending time with us. It was great to have you here Brian, thank you so much for joining us today. All thank you so much you too. God bless you, thank you so much for being with us here on Jennifer today. Always a pleasure to have you with us next time.

This hour Janet Mefford today has been brought to you but we want to send. Yes, word yes word


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