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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Melvin Tinker (Suffering and the Christian Life)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
February 18, 2021 4:30 am

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Melvin Tinker (Suffering and the Christian Life)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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February 18, 2021 4:30 am

What does the Bible say about the meaning and purpose of suffering in the Christian life? And what can the life of Job and, ultimately, the life of our Lord Jesus Christ teach us about God's faithfulness? Rev. Melvin Tinker, vicar of St. John Newland, Hull, England, will join me to talk about his book, "If God is So Good, Why are Things So Bad?" That's next time on Thursday's JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by Liberty health share liberty. Healthcare is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that allows you to control and manage your own healthcare and choose any doctor or hospital in the nation.

If your freedom loving American looking for contract free healthcare call now 855-585-4237 or go to liberty, health share.org/GMT for more information liberty health chair.org/GMT reference to our confidence is in Christ alone, the word of God says that soy is thoughts of many of us at times when it says this there is something else meaningless that occurs on earth.

The righteous who get what the wicked deserve and the wicked who get what the righteous deserve this to I say is meaningless. While a bit hopeless to because we know our God is good that he loves us that he redeemed us through Jesus Christ and that in the final analysis, we will find our eternal hope in him, but in the meantime we do have to wrestle with this problem of suffering and so were to talk about this today with Melvin Tinker who is vicar of St. John Newland Hall, where he has served since 1994. He is the author of many books and articles, including his latest, if God is so good why are things so bad what a question Melvin. It's great to have you back. How are you good luck with you. It is excellent to talk to. I know the subject is not a happy subject but it's always an honor to get your thoughts on these important topics.

This is really the question is in it when you say this is the question that is the ultimate question that seems to come up. How can I believe God is good, if bad things happen to Christian gold and how do you explain things going wrong. The objection just sometimes I will call God that everything is lined meaningless chimes then want to be suffering is also more volatile phone call that you told cold fact of existence and law. The objection and I don't think actually betray him to believe that we do things like OTHERWISE, why should we come for the done something wrong, like a bump about thinking of something not wanting to go that sure the main thing works out well, but someone will know what is.

That's right, that's the question I think you're on target there. When you say the fact that people seal and injustice in and of itself is really pointing to the fact that there is a God, it's like one apologist said at one point, you know into the angry skeptic who said I don't believe in God, he's terrible.

He does this and that. He said not tell me again which God you're mad at you know God is doing bad things right. One of the key points in for the conundrum. He came up against Loki in the world and wouldn't get motion from is like saying well look, he is lying. Will that presupposes a straight line and compare it to this actually get a believing in God. That's right, that's really good point. What you think is the starting point for understanding suffering would be the character of God, or would it be the fallen nature of man, or would it be both at once, we have to understand both at once.

Well, I think the big difference talking points on think so. Good wife and said bad joke. What I'm talking to trying to unpack the story what some of the main points but also how Job himself actually cries all Exelon something on this yet. So I'm attending point to Joe and his counsel LIKE a pastoral counselor will likely to actually gets to actually be encountering God himself and that the case most people go to the real problem is that comes to small you think you'd like man would launch in simple notion of God, no, God himself got himself talking back and physical activity for the spiritual most likely God is just not God is all-powerful.I will happen to me will chapter 9 is not God who is behind this right behind everything control nonetheless is also look all the same God is clearly good job, longer-lasting house mutual look and human beings build against God and keep things in fight make a mess of things. Golf indicates that for so that's right. Oh yeah, and I want to dive into all of that. One of the things that strikes me is when you're looking at Job and what he suffered, and why he suffered that was a different situation then perhaps the man who goes to a bar gets really really drunk gets behind the wheel of a car veers into an oncoming vehicle and kills a family of four. At least, that man will say well this horrible circumstance. I ended up killing four people because of my actions. I went to jail because of my actions. I lost everything because of my actions in the case of Job where people you know don't understand it. Job himself didn't understand it. It was will wait a minute, he's been a blameless man. So why was it that God allowed Satan to do what he did to him and and even now I hear Christians that it wasn't like Job did anything where God needed to test him or give him a hard time. So why didn't God tell Satan know will be held throughout the book of Job is trying to solve 3.4 like a cool case actually is cool.

Case those people all belong to God and walking the dog walking chapter lawn by saying okay what about what actually choose you call if you like Job you can be part of religious you put a hedge around yes anybody got a good life believing you take things from him because you feel safe and safe and okay go ahead and that you can love himself and called his love and so is God's Job is by going to be tested on and conclude case rights won't go to second so-called friends because they think well how how else can you watch is now paying on a second, I want to get all that we do need to possum or quick break.

Rev. Melvin Tinker. If God is so good why are things so bad will come back right after this effort today is proud to partner with pre-born to help save babies lives by. This is Dan Steiner, Pres. freeborn, and I want to send a big thank you for standing for life to you because of listeners like you in 2020 pre-born sponsored over 45,000 free ultrasound sessions to women in need saved over 31,000 babies and prayed with over 6500 women to receive Jesus Christ as their Lord. The battle rages on in 2021, and an even greater level, and our goal is to give Planned Parenthood the biggest competition ever.

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If God is so good why are things so bad, it's the name of the new book from the Rev. Melvin Tinker and the subtitle the problem of suffering from Job to Jesus.

This is the subject. We all can talk about.

Can't wait this is something that we all wrestle with. To some extent. And yet there are a lot of answers. Melvin, as you've mentioned in the book of Job you are talking. For example, and I was raising this kind of is playing the devils advocate here, not to quite a phrase, but asking what will people say will Job was such a good guy. Why would the Lord allow Satan to attack them but you've pointed out the fact that Job was tested in this way really was an honor and you're right about that, but now you also talked about his friends and the angle that he was accused by these friends. Job's comforters, you know, is a real crazy phrase, but we use when we try to say thanks but no thanks, but you mentioned this retribution principal and how the friends really were saying all the wrong things to Job little bit if you would about the retribution principal and what that was all about Joe Belden broken the idea that will principal it will continue to good good things happen to bad things happen to us. Look at Job's life look bad things happening to Joe Belton be bad to happen to some degree by attention because he knows what happened… For the explanation and that if we know you could life and drink ourselves silly a lot of alcohol then private bad things happen, you would be right with God's align so that whenever something bad happens to somebody called set things up in such a way as you to the lookout. Yes, I think about what is well believed to go to getting all that is kind of cool guild told me, and how God in the world but also very God treats them and become yet yeah absolutely right. I was going to say when you mention Islam. I also thought of Hinduism because they look at the yeah the Untouchables what you deserved it because you are bad in a former life. So why would we help you yeah yeah absolutely. I also thought about John chapter 9 where Jesus is asked about the man born blind and they said to send this man or his parents, and Jesus said neither this man nor his parents and but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. Couldn't that also be said of Job.

Ultimately, absolutely, I would like Job's counsel long chapter tonight cool dude like you that you actually turns on being very quiet. A lot of my elders you older than me, you are wrong in what you said about you… Stunning suffering instrument collection location. Yes, I know of demonstrating God glory and obesity. That strong and nothing will hold the New Testament mainly deals with the question that you we leave suffering to knock some of the golf with Frank Wells and could make a lot because suffering previously in June. Jesus character, and character.

Could you yes until that element to nothing abnormal to be told. Look at Job block at the end he would not start off with the command at the end knowledge of God, writes oh yeah all is that is to think those those middle chapters. Obviously, Job is a very long book. But those middle chapters where the friends are going on and on and on and you just feel for it shall be like these people are the worst like to find new friends.

Job this is awful when it raises a question for me though because we all. I think have experience with Job's comforters to something I think everybody could probably come up with a story of something. He said the wrong thing at the wrong time. Maybe their intentions were good, but it made it worse. How does God use that situation of of a friend who means well, saying the wrong thing at the wrong time is unfortunately even Christians can do sometimes how are we to think about that understanding that you know that God will use. Even well-meaning people, long thing and how to spawn those things wanted well just shrug our shoulders and walk away that we can actually walk Joe trust to talk to persuade the monks made no thing to do. Sometimes Paul Lenny patient on grievance happened again to the Lord Jesus saying let him save himself incredibly cool and playing lacrosse installed them for they do not know what they even that can be sometimes more like Christ. We talk like nuts will help you sure do we sure do.

I also appreciate that you say one of the main lessons in the book is there is an irreducible element of mystery in all suffering. I think we all would love it if the Lord would give us a ready medic made answer for what were going through. We don't always get an answer. I would say in most cases we don't get an answer why is it that we always think everything has to be tightly wrapped up with a bow and explained to us in terms we can understand when we are the clay and he is the potter you were the Paul… God to all the account was one dog mission is to go back to the life you made me God talking like to make all you mean to shape the people want to be talking that is, in some cases I think I will go to a living exclamation exclamation bus boycott! Yes, Gail undergoing at the moment but by revelation in Scripture. The one which we can look at them suffering this way, which I agree that is when you talk, you know, you mention Paul and in Romans nine, but also I think about Paul asking the Lord to remove the thorn in his flesh and eat.

Now here's the apostle Paul. If anybody to get a break right people think the apostle Paul should get a break I asked the Lord to remove any wouldn't remove it he would remove and even Jesus's famous prayer if it be possible father, remove this cup from me, but it not my will but thine be done to meet even the Lord Jesus asked the Lord his father to remove the cup and it was not to be.

He submitted to the father's will and he paid the ultimate price because he was the righteous, and he was giving his life for the unrighteous. Nothing on you know from man's point of view is more unjust than that, whatever that wall some understanding possible for apical happy wonderful revelation, yes.

True, and to prevent me from becoming Paul stop go dignity. Yeah, you're right.

And that's part of our problem is that we file-combine experience.

At times I have come close to God. God intimately not been on helping on the block on taking away well-qualified drinking counts would go a long, not so much from cool, philological and why one note blocking so long to complete such block. That's exactly right.

Well, there's more to talk about were talking with Rev. Melvin Tinker his book if God is so good why are things so bad. The problem of suffering from Job to Jesus for today. This archived broadcast of Janet my for today is brought to you by Liberty health sheer liberty healthcare is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that allows you to control and manage your own healthcare and choose any doctor or hospital in the nation.

If your freedom loving American looking for contract free healthcare call now 855-585-4237 or go to liberty, health share.org/GMT for more information liberty healthcare.org/GMT here's your name I guess forever Melvin Tinker.

His focus. God is so good why are things so bad. The problem of suffering from Job to Jesus. We were talking a little bit before the break Melvin about Paul's thorn in the flesh, and I wanted to read a little portion of that passage of second Corinthians chapter 12 because I think this does shed some light on Job suffering is well retroactively when he is begging the Lord to take away his thorn in the flesh. He asks three times of the Lord, that it might depart from him and Paul says, he said to me, my grace is sufficient for you, for my strength is made perfect in weakness, and he says therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities and reproaches and needs and persecutions and distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I'm strong now. Certainly, had he not had the thorn in the flesh, would he have arrived at that conclusion so you can see what the Lord was doing in his life he was rejoicing because the power of Christ was made that much more magnificent because he knew any success he had in ministry. If you want to call it out. It was all the work of God. Also, recollection how cold the glory involved himself globally. What is cross-country and get it back to take back something why why Job on God to Job conducting little about the moment think because someone like Joe is like yellow light and yes to watch his left knee that was exceptional exceptional .5 exceptional human being not so true, so true, what you know you said something earlier than I want to pick back up on because I think this is such a central point, you had mentioned in your book that Job wanted God he wanted to meet with God.

He wanted to hear God's reasons and explain this injustice. But that is such a crucial point. He wanted God and I mean that's that. In the end it seems to me is why he is faith didn't ultimately fall apart because his faith was never about his possessions, or even his family, or even his physical condition although it was horribly painful and the trial of his life to go through all of that but to maintain that trust. I mean, how we to maintain that kind of trust in our own trials looking at Job and seen that angle that ultimately he wanted God himself will what will you start the thought of the cross election a much from the foundation. God I'm not looking to get it off of the cross of Christ and you see one from one event that happened God comes to this world. What would make it beyond the same time is the best event with God, we have to look election and got to you. But there so we can expel supreme effort looking back and will look at love the Christians would take great assurance from go back to you, Lisa just got between when everything looks like you will and now it's not you think that that's part of our problem that we become very self-involved when were suffering and not always that it's not always on, you know something that's a bad thing because clearly if you're going through cancer or some trauma of some sort.

Of course are to be concerned. That's can consume your whole mindset and everything that's going on in your life but at the same time. I think it's difficult for all of us.

It certainly is for me to ever take my suffering and putting in a greater context, something that God easily does and is not part of our problem to go.

I'm just focused on my sickness or my hurt or my pain. I'm not thinking about this Lord in terms of the greater scheme and I'm also sometimes not thinking about the ultimate victory that you want at the cross and how you will come back and you will set all things right. When all is said and done I don't like them either you collect that the call culture where we have high expectations on such a medical point of view of drug and so on back also a downside from the Christian point of view, and that creates an expectation that things can be cured and killed quickly and now was awful 92 three 4051 very real person was now 18 59, so I'll spectate change expectations expectation changed as well which Mexican a bit more impatient and big Morgan Monday Christian mind would go to look at it differently in different players will experience that the thing that matters most is clogged and I'm joking so that he wanted to be move on one of his own flesh and blood.

And that's what he wanted and I professional people I have found to be the sweet little friend take human beings Christian will testify to God's faithfulness and calmness in the midst of the difficulties compared to other things. Think of everything about the shallow people well and and when you going back to the Job's comforters problem.

One of the side effects is of been going through something like that were someone is not helping even other trying to help you it makes you more compassionate, more empathetic MEI that that I have seen happen. People who are hurts can sometimes become better. But Christians who are hurt often can become more compassionate and again that's that's the spirit working in us to bring about more fruits and to conform us to the likeness of Jesus which is our goal anyway. Talk to John, knowing what blind glorified golf. I includes people with the compression that will come see you again of the church centric location.

One could lozenge in many ways, you know, what about hot babies were left guided explosion called Christians have no always felt if I played Christian stayed behind and looked after the ill. That's right on that estimate which which one the pagan world that's exactly right except great point where you have to pause for one more break. If God is so good why are things so bad for Melvin Tinker with us going back on jam effort today staying with us. Hi this is Janet Matt for it and I'm joined today by Matt Ballis with liberty help share a national nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry met the rising costs of health insurance really taken a toll on a lot of people, especially during this pandemic what your members recommend liberty health share will it really does change the way you approach help here when it comes to help during because each individual member of liberty, health share use what we call a self-pay patient or a private patient where we are each individually responsible and able to guided manager direct our own health care for you from the constraints of government controlled or third-party insurance systems. It really changes the methodology by which you approach healthcare to where you start yourself and be owner of your whole rather than just somebody who's entitled to a program because you.

Somebody that we see lower cost, greater sociability, and frankly better outfield tell us about the personal interaction that your members experience with liberty, health share will it's important in liver culture to know that not just bodies in need of getting our bodies fixed were also spiritual beings that need to be in relationship in connection with other people in our system on one system that we call share box we have what we call a prayer box where our members come together to pray for each other in times of the help support one another and let everyone know that you're not alone. During these times that are unprecedented and can be very lonely. You got an entire nationwide community right behind your praying for you here for you as an individual and a member.

Thanks Matt more information about liberty health share is available@libertyhealthshare.org/GMT for their phone number is 855-585-4237 your listening you know we are back on Jennifer today. Rev. Melvin Tinker Figaro St. John Newland Hall is with us his book if God is so good why are things so bad and talking about the problem of offering from Job to Jesus course when we get to chapter 38 this is really chubby turning point in the book of Job. Melvin where the Lord answers back and this is what Job is been waiting for.

In the verse that always really stands out to me is from chapter 38 verse four. Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth. Tell me if you have understanding who set its measurements since you know or who stretched the line on it and on and on and on right away.

Just putting perspective on problems, I am God and this is one of the things Job always caps right did need a God is sovereign and that he's good that he's righteous and vindication great and small about God is something like bullying.

Job into submission.

Another goal will then get to heaven.

And we have to go to ground will be boys that will be war that would be humble but that's not condition occupy a pump action got occupied God we worship and conduct elections not cover my mouth. Yes, I spoke English and have not on the creature before the creator which can then God's goodness yet. That's an amazing portion of Scripture. I know that you can do all things in the no purpose of yours can be thwarted. Now there are those in you talk about this new book, there are those who will read the end of Job and say hello. So the lesson is may test you, but then he'll give you more stuff than he ever took away is not is not the take away from the book of Job. Yes you yeah yeah cool now, but won't be the final chapter is actually crucial. The whole book into the light conclusion.

Got a conference a few years ago speak.

She now shook the woman who put out You didn't did not belong to the initial booking without it all much later. Trust me on the feelings you want me to write exactly got it them it is picking what it is that in some ways chapter 42 is like the book of Revelation is the Bible thinking culmination all of war of got back in the sense that you hung in there is you will send me out working space, blossoming foolish and all, somebody love God and the Christian, the new heaven and the new Bob get well. Look at the yes exactly what you luck and you talk about Job prefiguring Jesus Christ, which is absolutely the point we need to understand this in light of Jesus suffering and burial, and resurrection, I say as though predicts Jesus suffering we know when Isaiah writes he was despised and rejected by man, a man of sorrows Jesus said the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders. So for many Christians who might be new Christians. They table why do I have to suffer.

Why did I mean Jesus could he just died. Why did he have to go through the crown of thorns and why did he have to be whipped and spat upon and suffer the humiliation and why. How does God use suffering for good and that I think is the essence of what a lot of people ask witches couldn't God do what he's doing without adding on all that extra suffering seemed to be underlying true and we do it differently and know God is why God is good, then lost be the best way and I'm gonna think part of the problem, we would consider an is is that we can look at the necessary over the tall milk. No treatment call we don't appreciate all rights and quantities to watch Scott again his back talking about how God is too small of the God of Joe… Christ belonging computer will be on measure. Yet God's law and unconscious impression with them to go such a thing, which is what we did the moral place that we may be making two children really well said, still not the judge of all the earth do right that signing such a such an important thing for us to remember first that comes to mind for me is Hebrews 415 where it says for we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are yet without sin in suffering. Jesus was also identifying with us and there's you know the language of the Bible talks about the fellowship of his sufferings that there is a communal aspect.

It would seem to suffering that as Jesus suffered as a man. He was understanding you know it is the God man.

He was understanding our weaknesses, but we also understand his sufferings for us. I mean, there really is a mystery there, it's so deep you almost can't even explain it in correlation about how great great got that God will go to but because again, she got also now as it is a special kind of knowledge. Knowledge from inside human want experientially as well because of incarnation, the second trick to becoming human being undergoing the whole of the human experience and did not commit sin, all to know something like this one jumped going back to give. I know my live go out with someone who is able to sympathize, and rescue where and so is not simply that we have the gall to come from looking creation being called in every way make that without God's will so good to be Christian, and I love what you say toward the end of the book, I gotta read it to people because it's so encouraging. You say the reasonableness of trust lies in the known trustworthiness of its object, and no one is more trustworthy than the God of the cross. The cross assures us that there is no miscarriage of justice or of defeat, of love, either now or the last day.

So ultimately everything is just and everything is right and got because God has said it right at the cross. It all centers around the work of Christ in it that is so comforting to matter what you're going through no matter what pain you're feeling. There is an objective reality that sets everything right and that enables me at least to keep going even if things are hard wrong and more. On the contrary on this planet that's so true all one big problem and you yeah that's right will Rev. Melvin, think again.

The name of the book of God is so good why are things so bad. Thank you so much Melvin God bless you. Love the box okay bye-bye God bless will see you next time.

I jam for today. Thanks a lot for tuning


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