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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Bill Federer (The Founding) M. Kirkpatrick (Thanksgiving)

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The Truth Network Radio
November 26, 2020 5:30 am

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Bill Federer (The Founding) M. Kirkpatrick (Thanksgiving)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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November 26, 2020 5:30 am

Throughout recorded history, mankind has been ruled by kings. So what made America so different, and how is our republic rooted in biblical reality? William J. Federer joins me to talk about it and his new book, "Who is the King in America? Plus: Plus: The Hudson Institute's Melanie Kirkpatrick explains why Thanksgiving is the holiday at the heart of the American experience. That and more on Thursday’s JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or Janet, our confidence is in Christ alone is sort dependence and here's part of what it says in a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism is there right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

Such as been the patient sufferance of these colonies, and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states goes on to say these United colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British crown now setting up our constitutional Republic.

We the people declare that we rule our country but is America losing that idea and is there a connection between the use of tactics that caused so many countries to fall into Communist hands and the tactics being employed on Americans today were to talk about it with William J. Federal nationally known speaker, best-selling author, president of Amera search, Inc. and hosted the American minute radio feature and he is here to talk about his new book, a really important book. Who is the King and America bill. It is great to have you here. Welcome to what we have no king, obviously. But do you think most Americans today still remember why the colonists threw off the reins of the crown where I don't think so you know when we look history.

There's only about 6000 years of recorded history writing was invented around three or 4000 BC Sumerian cuneiform on clay tablets in the Mesopotamian Valley 4000 BC and were around 2080 R5 or 6000 years of records and beings rubbing document records and defense 6000 years about that long. It's only 60 people living 100 years.

We expect about we've all met someone who lived 100 years. Maybe her grandma were ducking 60 grandma and all the way back to the beginning of recorded human history. One of these records show the records show the power continually wants to concentrate into the hands of one person and whether to Nimrod Tower of Babel Lord Alexander, the greater the Egyptian pharaohs or the Chinese emperors of the Indian maharajas or Julius Caesar. Genghis Khan told about each generation. The reiteration is like wanting to rebuild the tower. Babel with a new number on top of it wasn't for one of these would have by no sense, is nothing more than a dictatorship. Communist dictators control the country like a king of the Communist Party members of the new royalty, nice houses of the people of the presence of whether you call it a name or not power, concentrate, and nothing is going back to the family garden came to the board's office is committed to the human DNA so you put the baby in a playpen one takes from the other supercomputer on a playground bully with the people the words. One of the Indian chief, and put them in the inner city.

One of the gang leader and as we see the hierarchal system. If you're friends with the king you're more equal. If you're not friends with the king you're less equal and communicating your sleeve or your dead treason and this is the norm and as you mentioned in the intro, the king of England Goldmine. But when our founders spoke with the king of England had the largest empire. He was the most powerful king that had ever seen. You control all of India. 1/4 of the world population right there you will call Bruce, Canada and America at the chance but wanted to set up a government as far away from making this possible for people to King Saul Republic is the people working through representatives or morsels under the Constitution for the magistrate is not the king. The people of the king. John June 1 Chief Justice of the people of this country are the sovereign, even Lincoln. In this debate was Stephen Douglas said the people of the United States are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts. Another signer of the declaration was James Wilson who said sovereignty resides in the people they have not parted with it. I love the quote from Grover Cleveland sovereignty of 60 millions of free people working out of the divine right of man rule himself.

Jefferson said the Chief Justice says there must be an ultimate arbiter decider somewhere is the people and so when we realize this, the people have been asleep in the book I bring up an interesting angle wanted to match was a conflict of the king, right, and 70% of Americans identify themselves as Christian, which means we go to church element which puts the pastors in America in the position of counselors to the king and the original picture about Bishop Ambrose St. Ambrose Beckham, 379 A.D. the Roman Empire is now Christian Roman Emperor Theodosius is going to church in Milan Italy with Ambrose as his pastor Bishop Ambrose same Roman Emperor near church on Sunday, guess what, that's exactly what we have in America. The people of the king. 70% of the Christian are going to church and the pastors in America are counseling them and you have to type the counselors once the stay asleep as brought to mind a picture of him moving the Lord of the rings and there's a scene about king seated on is a spell cast on the greater great decrepit sitting on his throne and his two counselors in this scene one is named warm tone was whispering in his ear stinks latest stay asleep.

Don't get involved, restricting them to be overrun, but just wait a little longer to be over a conflict named Gandalf when he comes in getting it right before your eyes looking so slick clear. It surely looks dark up in my dreams of late yeah but not with a spell cast on two types of pastors in America one says stay asleep sure responsibility of another comes a bucket of ice water on his congregation is wake up you'll just have the right to vote in America. You will be held accountable to God for what happens in America.

Yes, that's really sobering. But you say and I rightly and I completely agree we've really lost our collective memory. A lot of us as Americans, as our freedoms are being taken right out of our hands. What about the then role of the pastor in reminding us what our freedoms have always been and how important it is.

As Christians to stand up for our rights that God gave to us memory communist tactic to help people remember is called deconstruction and what were you separate the people from their past them into a neutral where they do not remember where they came from a menu brainwashing into the future. You have planned for them and so so sales technique. If I was a toothpaste salesman. The first thing I would do is say negative things about the toothpaste you are currently using the metal stuff and leave the enamel off your teeth, your pulse, but now I got you open-minded what all the toothpaste out there and that I give you my picture for this pressure stuff they do their part is culturally going to the classrooms and tell the students what the founding fathers took land from Indians. They were chauvinist Lyons slaves and students are repulsed by him.

Now you got the kids into the neutral open-minded what all the belief systems out there and then give them your pitch for LGBT or socialism or Islam, as we see your point. Through this went from a Judeo-Christian past used to be Catholic Protestant Reformation with Jewish neighborhoods in the Jewish went to secular, neutral with the French Revolution and Robespierre, the head of that homeland security prostituting Notre Dame Cathedral. Covering her with a sheet and said this is the goddess of reason was worshiper that shot 40,000 imperialism spread this French secularism all around Europe. In Europe becomes secular and it's free sex, anything goes. The gay agenda and now Europe is becoming Islamic law would be in the number one name given to newborns in London, Brussels, Milan, and as we see Europe gone from Judeo-Christian to secular gay to Islamic transgendered agenda is simply a creative way to cut ties with the Christian past, which quickly co-opted by Islam. Yes, exactly. Remember that we do need to member back and I really want to explore what you just said in a little more detail when we come back to the right because you've really nailed it when you see bringing people to a secular neutrality leading into further indoctrination on other matters like you mentioned the LGBT agenda and then Islam people scratch their hands and they say will how the world could you have Teresa made the British prime minister, saying that at an Islamic attack had nothing to do with Islam. And yet at the same time say we will stand up for our values begin to ask the question, what are the British values anymore come back right after this effort. Today the federal witness who is the king in America, this is Janet Mefford for Bible league International. What you pray for today. Good health, safety may be to meet a goal is a good things to pray for the pastors and evangelists in the Middle East are praying for material blessings or for an end to the persecution or difficulties they face. Rather, they're praying for copies of God's word so that believers will be spiritually nourished and strengthened to live out their faith in this challenging part of the world. Many of our brothers and sisters in Christ. In places like the Middle East, Asia, Africa, and Latin America.

Each day without their very own Bible, you can send one today, given one Bible for only $5.20 Bibles per $100 or 200 Bibles for $1000. Whatever you'd like to get you can become a vital center by calling 800 password that's 800 why he asked W. LRD. 800 yes word or there's a vital link banner to click open enrollment is here in choosing a healthcare program is an important decision for you and your family as a member of liberty held shares your part of a community that comes together to share their medical expenses.

You can sign up now with membership starting as early as the following month and there are no contracts or commitments program start as low as $349 per month and there's no network so you can choose your own doctors and hospitals. Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit ministry not insurance so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses and in your time of need.

Other members are there for you to feel good knowing your part of a community of like-minded individuals who understand the importance of people coming together to bear one another's burdens. You can find out That's liberty liberty today. My guest is Bill Fetter he's out of the great is the king in America and who are the counselors to the king and were exploring a little bit of human history recorded human history.

Anyway, from the last 6000 years we have seen many many many kings rise and fall, but we have a different country.

We have founders who were brilliant and who understood we didn't want to live under tyranny. And yet, look where we are now we see all sorts of people trying to undermine and fundamentally transform America. As has been stated in the past. So let's have a little bit about what you said about your bill because this is such an important point. We just had this London attack, a jihadist went after people killed a bunch people injured a bunch of people and the British prime minister stands up and says this has nothing to do with Islam. This would have been unthinkable to Winston Churchill standing up after something like that insane.

This has nothing to do with us on how you see the European mind being co-opted here and politicians are quick do not represent her with yet in many cases the terrorists themselves are yelling all of the walk, and they claim to represent true is WHO controls what true Islam is one person, we put his life under microscope. We see it go through three stages.

While it was a religious leader in the pagan city of Mecca from 610 A.D. six 2280 only make 70 converts. He gets confrontational. The people of Mecca choose Mohammed out of town for disturbing the peace he has nowhere to go. He is a Muslim refugee goes north 210 miles to a Jewish city called Medina there nice to let Mohammed in.

As a Muslim immigrant goes into minority neighborhoods where people have grievances against this Jewish control city and he organizes the following were familiar with the term of organizing in the community.

One is following sufficiently large enough.

He goes to the Jews, and pressures them to accommodate him and his followers politically and make a treaty now with the political leader. In addition to being a religious leader. When Mohammed's followers get chased out of Mecca for disturbing the peace Muslim refugees.

They go to Medina. The Jews let them in as Muslim immigrants and Mohammed now allows his followers to rob the caravans headed to Mecca in retaliation for the Mecca shooting them out of town so were Jesus said if they take your call.

Give me your shirt if they take your house. You retaliate take their caravan is 300 warriors caravans chapter of the Quran from his all. It's each upgrade on how to distribute booty allowing caravans.

Mohammed gets 1/5 of the booty Americans send a thousand soldiers to escort and protect their caravan warmed with 300 defeats them at the battle of Bob draw in 624 A.D. this amazing victory having been outnumbered 3 to 1 convinces Mohammed to be a military leader. He fights and 66 battles and raids in the next eight years before he dies he kills 3000 people had 700 Jews in Medina within five years of Mohammed coming into the Jewish city of Medina is not a Jew left in the city of Medina or Chase are killed or enslaved within five years of his death. Every pre-existing culture in Arabia is wiped out in the next 50 years the Muslim warriors conquered Jerusalem, which had been a Byzantine Christian city for three centuries since Constantine conquered Syria, which had been the first country to completely be Christian enjoyed by the apostle Paul.

The name Christian was first used in Syria until the water conquered Egypt was completely Christian enjoyed by Mark but wrote the gospel, Matthew Mark Luke and John until a mirror is been a loss conquered and there used to be to 250 Catholic diocese along North Africa and the seventh century blue ball conquered by the Muslims as a mere 711 they crossed the Strait of Gibraltar conquered Spain in 10 years. We were million into slavery. The Pope puts out a plea that anybody that could fight to join Charles Martel that he stops the Muslims at the battle of Tours, he was the grandfather of Charlemagne, you stop some in the year 732 A.D. exactly 100 years after the death of Mohammed in 632 A.D. they go from Arabia to Paris in a 100 year military campaign. This is the first century of Islam there are Muslims that look back to that pure example of how Muslim is supposed to act the same way Christians look back to the first century of Christianity. Your example of how Christians are supposed to write and then convert to Islam being invaded into what is today Turkey.

All seven churches mentioned in the book of Revelation were wiped out by the Muslim Turks Ephesus Colossae Galatia. These Greek Christians begged the West for help West since helpers called the Crusades they go on for two centuries and when the Crusades and the motions pick up where they left off. They invaded Eastern Europe and surround you and they conquered Constantinople land trust in the Columbus essay look at 40 Columbus would've never set sail and we never would've called Native American Indians if you get from that name at the Muslim jihadist not conquered the central Asia and the land trust India ties into America and so 1520 900,000 Muslims surround Vienna and the Reformation had just started a few years earlier. In 1517 by Martin Luther most awful guy in Europe is the Catholic Roman Emperor Charles V of Spain and he controls is global and part of Spain. The Spanish Netherlands, Austria, Italy, the New World things are named after his son Philip of Spain Charles V's face with a double dilemma, Protestant Reformation, one hand Muslim nation. On the other hand, so he decides to do something unique. He makes a deal with the Protestant.

It's called the peace of Augsburg 1555 is the first treaty ever recognized Protestant and has a little Latin phrase that have enormous repercussions was the phrase trade you use will let you which resources the rain is a religion and can believe whatever you want. Let's just work together again.

She's muzzled for invading Europe kills all work to stop the invasion, but in the next century different kings decided to believe different things and so northern Germany and Sweden were Lutheran, Switzerland, Calvinist England, Anglican Scotland Presbyterian Holland Dutch reformed Switzerland Calvinist in the course, Italy, Spain, France, no state Catholic but Europe was thrown into this mass migration of people shifting from country comfort country simply for conscience sake because they didn't believe the weather can good ones.

It spilled over and saw the colonies in America and they had the same thing over here was more or less 1 denomination per colony. It's like it's incredible and we laid out like that.

Throughout history we understand a lot more here we are at this juncture, we have people who are employing tactics who are being subversive people talk about the shadow government efforts. Send the left trying to undermine America and undermine the laws and undermine the Constitution and even though they are out of power at the moment they're determined to continue on what you see when you look at history in terms of where America is going to go. This is really a critical moment in history is not a blueprint, the Bible, after the Renaissance and Reformation.

There was 100 year Hebrew Bible before he got to the age of enlightenment to all the scholars in Europe, Hugo Grotius, John Locke, James Harrington, John Selden where they study in their study. In the Hebrew Republic and so this was fought in Europe at the time that the New England colonies were founded by Thomas Hooker. He found Hartford, Connecticut, and his. He's not a king appointed pastor, usually a Congregational separatist pastor for the people come to him as a pastor, how we do the government thing and instead of it being okay top down. It's a polarity. He says at the bottom up sermon and he says the foundation of authority is late in the free consent of the people he goes back to Deuteronomy goes back to Moses telling the children of Israel.

How can I loan bill your burden take you Wiseman note among your tribes and I'll make them rulers over you. This was an election process. We look back Israel when they came out of Egypt around 1400 BC they came into the promised land for 400 years. Israel did not have a king. This is literally the first instance in recorded history of an entire nation with no okay Egypt and Pharaoh's China had emperors. India had maharajas.

Mesopotamia had Bureau king based on what is an entire nation with okay when there's a king. If you're friends with the king you're more equal front of the king, you're less equal to the king, you're dead in Israel. There was no king in the law specifically says there is no respect of persons in judgment, rich or poor. Everyone is the same male-female made in the image of the creator.

Lo and behold, Israel is the beginning of the concept of equality on planet Earth that we see is equal to you.

Israel was the first nation with private land ownership because wherever there's a king. You never really owned the land.

It's always conditional of you staying on the nice side of the king you crossed the King Hill to Greenland and kill you in Israel. The land was permanently title to the families Israel had no standing army you have a king. He has an army to enforce his will in Israel. Every man was armed in the militia and ready at a moments notice to defend his family and his community action Israel had no please everyone was taught the law everyone enforced the law like everybody was deputized. Israel had no prisons were Joseph wasting away in prison in Egypt and Israel law says when a crime is committed to get the trial the city gates in the course is your refuge.

You could run away to what happens right then Israel bureaucracy free welfare system in Egypt for selling their souls to the Pharaoh for a handout of grain in Israel. Somebody harvested their land left the gleanings for the poor people to pick through this with the poor were taken care of without some political leader collecting everything at dawn back out to stay in power and Israel system worked as long as the priests taught it.

When the priest stopped teaching the law. The high priest Eli his own sons are sleeping with women of the tent of meeting the thing falls apart and the people go to Samuel the prophet. And they say this is not working anymore and Samuel cries of the Lord tells them they did not reject you. They rejected me king. King Saul turned on kills most of the prefix where they landed. And so we we wanted to word Saul is pouting. This I made a liquidated and that nobody cares endured you much as I saw David get some food from the priesthood knob is also bring the preacher tells by the kill. The men hesitate. Why system that says you're accountable to God to follow all losses need two more witnesses before you condemn somebody that and do which is to surrender my conscience usually kill, kill, and so we see when a king takes over. He wants your conscience you want you to give up your deeply held religious convictions, something like maybe like yes-men. They want to surrender your great book.

Who is the king in America. Thank you so much Bill. This archived broadcast of Janet Mefford today is brought to you by pre-born for $140 you can provide ultrasounds to five women in crisis pregnancies. Call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or Janet here's your hose show next to him after today it is Thanksgiving week. The kids are out of school and were all gearing up for turkey and trimmings and maybe some football, and for many of us Thanksgiving day is a day when we give thanks to God for his grace and for his blessings even as the day hissing controversy and boycotts over the years but my next guest notes that Thanksgiving has emerged as Americans best left holiday and so were in examine how Thanksgiving came about in the modern experience and why it is so beloved and celebrated on into today. It's so great to have with us Melanie Kirkpatrick. She is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and a former deputy editor of the Wall Street Journal's editorial page.

Her book is called Thanksgiving holiday. At the heart of the American experience and Melanie it's so good to have you here. Thanks for joining us. Happy Thanksgiving to you. It is a wonderful holiday and it's really interesting in your book how you trace the changes that have happened since the 1600s. What you make of the endurance of Thanksgiving everybody long time to family and friends to gather and give thanks, which is a profound and very basic human impulse to give thanks to the Almighty for all of our blessings absolutely part of that I shouldn't be left out either good mail, absolutely. It's funny too because everybody you know I learned in school about the Pilgrims and the pilgrims and the Indians. They called them Indians back then, but the pilgrims and the Indians sitting together and having a festive meal and over the years I've learned that maybe the first grade 2nd grade version that was always told to us wasn't completely accurate. What what is the truth about how the first Thanksgiving came together type Thanksgiving happy time to people. The English and the Native Americans enjoying themselves is basically true.

It was a great date they were at peace.

It was a time of fellowship and you know all tragic things that were to befall the Native Americans were couple of decades away. So this type is essentially true right will you have the whole history of the pilgrims how they came over here for religious freedom. And yet when they came to the New World. They really I don't think he knew how bad it and tough it would be for them so they were very dependent upon the Native Americans even eat sworn to AI at the allotment on Indians are really the first Thanksgiving story there. The one who provided the no hot the knowledge the know-how to the Indians to help them with that first harvest. They also show them places to hunt and fish so they were. They were very welcoming and I you think about that first Thanksgiving. Which by the way the pilgrims would not have called Thanksgiving for the total grams of Thanksgiving day was entirely a day of worship a day of giving thanks for a specific blessing. And what they would've been in attendance at that worship for most for much of the day on the day that they spent the three days that they spent with the Indians in 1621, he has of course become known as the first Thanksgiving. But if you could ask pilgrims if that was a Thanksgiving he he would look at you askance right because they had different days of Thanksgiving today. That was part of the regular worship. They were many of them separatists who came over here and she had been Calvinists and that was what they believed that that there was not one day of Thanksgiving, but many tried and it usually called her a blessing.

And what, for example, a rainfall or military victory or recovering from an illness or something like that.

And there was a debate later in the 17th century when various places started naming days of general Thanksgiving that is just thanks for continuing blessing blessing. There was a debate over this. What theological letter that was a good thing.

Theologically, people like you that it would encourage people to take God blessings for granted. If you just had a general Thanksgiving. It was better to hold a Thanksgiving for you after specific event. It's funny when you mentioned it was three days of feasting back in 1621 with the Indians. We always thought about it as one meal and it wasn't even necessarily in the fall but what went on.

What you specifically because I know I think you said there only really two people who had left accounts of the first Thanksgiving type really know about what they did have. And we know that while the pilgrims were probably eight outdoors. All they had was a little one little structure that they had built. We know that there were about 53 pilgrims that was half the number that had arrived on the Mayflower and as they went as they were there.

90 Indian warriors man armed arrived and the pilgrims were thinking these guys approach they would've thought you know Friendly or not they thought they had friendly relations with the Indians that you never now so the Indians brought side gear which would've had to the entire group for quite a few meals again. That's another example of the generosity of the lumpen island and also presages the tradition of all of people bringing things to Thanksgiving meal and they had at one point they did what I pilgrims described as exercise their arms status they had a dislike shooting display and now with the pilgrims just showing deity and thought they could do over.

They also can become a subtle warning about how you know if things don't stay so happy we can defend ourselves.

Students in mutual wariness even though it was a time of fellowship.

I think they were probably a little wary of love one another dear what about Turkey didn't have any turkey at all.

Probably there is in one of the accounts. There is a reference to wild Turkey about eight certainly wasn't the start of the meal the way it is today, but there could very well have been turkey there. This is kind of fun to to research the culinary history, but that they also had a lot of seafood muscles, oysters, fish on. They probably had other fowl such as Doc indecently know that the early English settlers also shock and an eight such follower as as eagles and salon, so I know they did not have cranberry sauce.

They might've had cranberries, but you can't really there so sour you can really cranberry without sugar and the pilgrims probably did not bring sugar with them because it was very expensive, no potatoes, sweet potatoes, or white potatoes because they did not grow in that part of the North American continent.

At that time know Apple apples are not native to North America and the it took a few decades before the English could plant and grow apple trees before they could have Apple pumpkin pie that was indigenous but it would've been roasted or cooked in a stool or something. It would not have been in a pie because although the pilgrims knew about pipe.

I was popular in England they didn't have any wheat flour okay LOL Debbie hard when I switched and you are so right about that. Only because the culinary history in and of itself is very interesting. I would imagine most grocery stores would have a difficult time saying get your dear. Now I don't think that would resonate the way Turkey does today but you know there's so much more to the history of Thanksgiving since 1621 and some of the traditions we enjoy today, and I want to get into that when we come back from this break we are talking about Thanksgiving the holiday at the heart of the American experience Melanie Cook Patrick with us and will return right after this open enrollment is here in choosing a healthcare program is an important decision for you and your family as a member of liberty held shares your part of a community that comes together to share their medical expenses. You can sign up now with membership starting as early as the following month and there are no contracts or commitments program start as low as $349 per month and there's no network so you can choose your own doctors and hospitals liberty health chair is a nonprofit ministry not insurance so your money goes toward helping other members with their eligible medical expenses and in your time of need. Other members are there for you to feel good knowing your part of a community of like-minded individuals who understand the importance of people coming together to bear one another's burdens. You can find out That's liberty liberty house what's it like when a pregnant mom sees her baby for the first time this little baby wasn't really in the plan for this young after seeing a halo on her baby on ultrasound at a pre-born center. She was still leaning towards abortion just felt God's arms around me and is the largest provider of free ultrasounds in the country.

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Your gift is doubled rescuing 10 babies lives to donate, call 855402 baby 855-402-2220 980-554-0222 29 for today and if you like me are probably in the midst of your shopping gathering things together decorations and food preparations for thanks giving. It's a wonderful time of year we give thanks to God and have great meals and enjoy all sorts of other traditions like football and lots of fun things. It's been reduced to turkey day for some people, but it is a very enduring American tradition were talking with Melanie Kirkpatrick about it.

And Thanksgiving is her book the holiday at the heart of the American experience to wander through and tell a lot about the kind of the political implications in the political developments really regarding Thanksgiving, which I found really interesting only because I had not known. Some of this stuff when George Washington for example, proclaimed our first Thanksgiving. I hadn't realized that there was really a controversy involved there what happened. I did all that I thought it was the first Congress. I hated been meeting in Manhattan and downtown New York Federal Hall since March 1789 and comes along and they're about to take a break when a congressman rises to his feet and proposes a resolution to go to Pres. Washington and ask him to declare a day of national Thanksgiving.

Well I was. Here's the surprising part members of Congress objected to the son said unto me since. And these reasons that you you can recognize today and our own political discussions. One had to do with executive power. The argument was that the Constitution did not give Washington did not give a president the authority to Pres. the authority to call a national Thanksgiving that that authority really belong to the individual governors of the individual states. That was one objection. This objection had to do with religion and because Thanksgiving is a religious holiday. The argument went, it was inappropriate for the government to get involved in any way, including naming a day of Thanksgiving.

In the end, the objections were overcome the vote was positive and a delegation from the house and the Senate went to Washington and did a really smart thing. He was a wise man in so many ways.

He issued a proclamation for a day of national Thanksgiving and he said copies of it to the governors of the individual states, but he didn't come to celebrated he requested them to do so. So I think that was it the hat to the discussion that Had Gone Taken Pl. in Congress something else Janet that was interesting. His Thanksgiving proclamation was religiously inclusive and he could easily have just made it Christian because that of course was the predominant faith, by far, but instead he included people of all faiths interesting and so when you go down through the years you mentioned like a link in called for all Americans to mark the same Thanksgiving day at a very contentious time in history that is another high point really yes yes Washington the Thanksgiving that that that that thanks giving habit for president, died out and it was left to the individual governors to do it and actually have a state did celebrate a Thanksgiving that would be on a different day. They didn't coordinate but John came along. He called a national Thanksgiving for 1863. It was a death course a very polite year in American history. It was in the middle of the Civil War, Americans were shooting each other with killing each other and yet Lincoln decided he was going to issue this proclamation calling for Thanksgiving for our general blessings. Can you imagine everybody but he had lost a relative or friend the floor and yet here was shrinking.

Lincoln trying to point the way toward peace and calling on Americans to give thanks for the good things in their lives that's extraordinary when you consider the time. Absolutely. So now when you bring into the modern era.

There has been a lot of things that have come up as you talk about in the book and in boycotts and day of morning. It always mentions about the New England Indians boycotting Thanksgiving about Thanksgiving in the modern context. How do you see Thanksgiving regarded now is it's fundamentally changed from you know it not even 1621, but from previous centuries elements of Thanksgiving are the same time for family to get together at the time of good fellowship.

Certainly time for none of that has changed and most of all I think the the aspect of gratitude has also remain the same. However, in very different for the original Thanksgiving were I heavily religious almost exclusively toilet almost exclusively religious. And now the religious aspects as I are are expressed in a different way it used to be that everybody went to the house of worship on Thanksgiving day today. You don't see that as much, but I think people that there's one day a year that they say grace around their dinner table. It's Thanksgiving day yeah I think you're right about that.

With football it's become such a big tradition obviously know it's been a big tradition for as long as I can remember but football just because people were home eating. They knew it was a good time to put games on TV that he confided that the first American football game took place in 1869 between rockers in the end Princeton Rutgers one and not long after that Princeton and Yale played a game on Thanksgiving day in the 1870s and then in the 80s that they moved to New York City where it became just a such a popular event and you know how New York trends kind of take over the Holocaust.

In this football mania began in New York and by 1890, or the early 1890s there were 5000 football games being played on Thanksgiving day around the country so that was really the groundswell of the beginning of the groundswell of enthusiasm for the sport and it was it was controversial like that controversy over Black Friday. Today people like you that football detracted Americans from the true meaning of Thanksgiving and this is debated, and of course we know that football is still with us think people have come to find their own balance among competing factors of the day yeah I think so too. I think so too, you know, one of the things that you talk about as well is the link between the first Thanksgiving and young immigrants who can relate to this idea of people settling in a new land was very interesting how have you seen recent immigrants react. For example, to the Thanksgiving story.

What if you heard about the connection they feel.

I went to a high school the public high school in New York in Queens New York called the newcomers school for immigrants who had just come to this country and the kids learn English and once her English is good enough they can move on to different high school and I interviewed them about Thanksgiving and I was not prepared for the responses I got that these kids had a soundly personal understanding of what it meant to give thanks on Thanksgiving day they for many years been a quasi-patriotic holiday and for these kids. That was certainly the case that demonstrated their entry into America and in a kind of formal way because they were adopting this tradition number one boy telling me that he was like the telegram he came here for religious freedom.

He was, he said he was from That country that hasn't formally existed since 1950, when China invaded it and he said he was like the pilgrims because they too were seeking religious freedom.

He came here so that he could practice Tibetan Buddhism freely. A girl spoke up and said all I'm from Egypt and I'm a cop that is a Christian from Egypt and that was the reason her family came to this country as well that other kids spoke about coming to this country to seek better lives for themselves and their families and that of course was like the non-Puritans who were part of the original pilgrims and interesting to me that on Thanksgiving day. All these kids born in the four corners of the world felt profoundly American that is fascinating and 400 years after the fact. We still have that same sentiment at the most beloved holiday in America. I think that's fantastic. The name of the book is Thanksgiving holiday at the heart of the marriage experience and happy Thanksgiving, Melanie Kirkpatrick, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you. All right you take care and thank you for listening Janet our website.

God bless you

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