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October 29, 2019 4:00 pm
This Janet Mefford today podcast is sponsored by Hartford Lebanon to Christian ministry, working among 2 million Syrian refugee families have been displaced for just $29 a month you can help hard for Lebanon reach out in Jesus name to a family of six providing them with food, Christian education survival essentials and the gospel. Please call now 888-247-5499. That's 888-247-5499 or Janet Mefford.com, our confidence is in Christ alone, I sort of know, but how many of those people can articulate the reason for God's existence based upon objective truth and how can reason and logic from common experiences of our daily reality.
Help us to understand the truth and the reality about God well today were to talk about it with Leo Severino. He has a background in film and philosophy, having previously worked at 20th Century Fox before cofounding met Noya films and today will be talking about his book called going deeper a reasoned exploration of God and truth, and Leo, it's great to have you here. How are you are really well-paid parameters for all your good work. Well, it's wonderful to have you here. I really enjoy going through your book because this is a great approach. I think it's interesting to where you're coming from because you say right at the outset you used to think there was no such thing as truth.
What changed your mind. Well, what I would say about the book means a lot coming from you that you you take the time it out out there, but would change my mind was was examining the concept was really thinking it would. I literally had a moment when I was speaking to someone and everything out of the truth and I was kind of given even philosophical circles.
And then it dawned me and I was on the subway to start the book and thought that I would urge anybody. If someone tells you there is no truth immediate question should be is that true is really what you're saying is, it is true that there is no truth and you also might come back so I don't mean there's no she in any sense right about the truth I like apples and you don't let me know that there is no objective truth is no absolute what you say is absolutely true is what you're saying that apply to everyone or just sometimes right sir and no letter how you slice it turns out the philosophical axiom with logic that if anything needs anything.
There must be such a thing is true. That has to be objective and universal that was starting point eventually led me to this massive rabbit hole that eventually got me to God himself. Yeah, it's so interesting. What makes the case.
Do you think when you're starting out making the argument that you make throughout the book. Why is it the case that truth must exist just from a logical standpoint that we shouldn't speak to someone truly believes that there is a true should never say anything should ever do anything because at every moment there. Her behavior their thoughts are speaking against either version to the chair implies some truth they believe it features strong of the holder weight would feed in the opposite if there was some reason are hesitant to fit in a particular chair with a golden must be gauging some but about the reality that is contrary to what their thought is chairs not shown up holder weight. There's a spill something on it, etc. so it's not really it is a self evident principal we have to deduce we have tried to do the opposite of people make a claim contrary to what you can show by logic that the claim is absurd to be like saying a mother saying that she divert herself to the making sense right yeah that's right what it's interesting, though, because it seems that our modern way of thinking doesn't involve logic. A lot of times if you hear skeptics or atheists speaking about the relativist saying there's no such thing as truth or some will say you can have your truth, but I have my truth, what you think is driving that is it just a desire to get away from any sort of moral authority you think that's really what's behind it.
Part of my don't I don't know what you might psychology so sure what happened in Shirley. My hunch however is that people typically people faith we I think after this skepticism about about logic about truth and two extremes. There's people don't have faith who believe that matters of faith are just you have nothing to do with logic and truth, and in a certain sense, people, faith, thinking that faith is what you believe in the not only asked of evidence.
But in spite of all evidence to the contrary, you know I still have yes neither one in which of those are satisfied. We know that the entire tradition is that faith understanding that there is there is there is something in us that not only wants to know the truth but wants to know it, even to things that are just beyond our grasp right and that's why I try to put this book together this book I thought was to try to meet people who believe whatever they believe but have some inkling towards you know, maybe there's an explanation.
Maybe there's some truth out there that that I can grasp at a very digestible you this book is not meant for philosophers. This book is meant for the everyday person try to shore up maybe our knowledge about about our faith or about truth in general, so troops talk about this cause and effect you talk about this in the second chapter where you use this story about Alisa falling. Can you walk people through that, because I think that that was a really great point you were making wise to start with truth and that I say will being that we know the truth.
Can we go further with other things that we know that we know are true and so use example is that you are sick here and there's a tree and we file falling from the tree. We know that that event was truly happened but contained within that there's a bunch of other truths that we can know are necessarily true might not know why precise leash. Well, maybe it was the change of the seasons of the battery's maturation of the lead squirrel maybe was just a wind might not know that we know one thing for sure that we put on the belief wasn't on the tree, then delete when the fall from the tree and that's all okay grasp that is absolutely true. While then.
What else can we know well if there were no branch should be no lease if there were no trunk there be no branch of the no lease your little sapling and I start making massive jobs at some point if there was no third option would be no trunk and for there to be no rush for their belief and the question is how far back we go. Turns out that exploring how far back go to something insanely interesting which is which is explained in two simple examples. If if I might chat if you have time to pressure for the first some point are actual specific knowledge of what those things might have been that were required, eventually fully faulted the fall from the tree, like the fifth of the solar system or a galaxy knowledge. You may be asked is no better, but we know this for certain something that proceeded something that's something that something to legally sell. My question is how far back we go, and it seems we keep going back we can see they would say that there was something previously and before that that is a problem with that logic and I use the two examples. Example number one is if I ran to the radio studio for my house and US euro house with really infinity that way. Obviously be short-circuiting on top like what does it make any sense because of the fact that I arrived, implies that however far granted to the infinitely small ways. I brought your delicious brownies want to try and find out what they're actually Casey SOI's recipe and her green list is very simple, infinitely long list of ingredients we both, they won't again is something wrong with that picture very effective you're eating the brownie implies that however long list of ingredients necessary to make the brownie can be infinitely long because will forever be collecting ingredients never get to the baking forgot about make sense yes yes the falling leaf everything however much space and time how much distance it belief is traversed to get to where it got fall can be infinitely long series of events like running for my house. However, many ingredients when necessary to bake the following week already causes that causal chain that leads to the falling leaf. We could be infinitely long it will be forever collecting ingredients that are necessary for the fall and never get into the actual fall by pure logical – we have to conclude that however long the list is of the causes that preceded the falling leaf. Don't know what they are. It can be infinitely finite. I could find them if you can count them. Eventually you get to a first yet.
So first off or something crazy interesting part of a longer yes absolutely.
You know what this is perfect time to take a break to do that with Leo Severino. His book is called going deeper recent exploration of got intricately to get back to this discussion will be right back. Hi this is Janet Mefford.
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They need Jesus Christ and they need to hear the gospel that can save please help the important work of Hartford Lebanon today. Again, that number is 888-247-5499. That's 888-247-5499 or there's a banner to email@example.com. Thank you so much for what ever you can do and God bless you for today we are going deeper and that is the name of the book by Leo Severino who is joining us. He is the cofounder of minority films, and this book going deeper recent expiration of God and truth is a really great read. I think you're taking us through the logical consequences that get us back to understanding God does exist, and in fact God has to exist. When you examine the whole picture. According to reason and logic. This is just so good Leo you were sharing this great story, getting us back to the first cause of all things we talked about the leaf falling from the tree and you have to see all these things proceeded that leaf falling.
So now when you get to this conclusion that there has to be a first because this is where a lot of people get tripped up while I don't believe in God and I don't. I believe that we were just here by random process and all the sorts of things. When you get somebody to the logical point of of taking on this truth that yes there has to be a first cause where you go from there. And how do you defend the first cause of anything at can be preceded by a series of causes roughly about what happened, happened. However, long series. It has to be finite theory counted get to first with the big deal about all the first cause that must mean that there is no cause for because if there were a cause before that will then what caused that.
Another cause and then what caused that because eventually get back backward looking infinity never gets belief actually falling to get stuck with the notion that have to be first because that means there's no cause before means the first cause is on cause is that obviously God know the answer is no, not at this point, but what it does get us and this just a lot logically certain is 2+2 = 4. We get there has to be something that exist whose existence is uncreated whose existence is necessary for everything after it to exist.
But it itself exists on cause when I what that looks like what I feel like we don't know we live in your causal temporal world around us points because the tracks has to be something that sees the entire physical universe because the falling leaf just one arbitrator that would apply to anything and got the same analysis could be infinitely long was because before that respondent which means there's a first that's the case, this first cause. Unlike everything in the universe necessary in the causal chain of the universal universe to access we have something that exists completely self sufficiently, completely devoid of anything that could cause without any necessity radically interesting talk about the different anything we can point you in the universe. Now, from there is a God know but it turns out that she keep going down that path.
That logical path gets all kinds of other things you get to the fact that they're going to be one of the things to the fact that family powerful because it's necessary account for the existence of everything in the universe. You get to the fact that although it seems like it's something far in the past and I should transcend both space and time and is necessary for any particle to exist in the here and now. Now get closer something that we are normal notion of God's and then eventually you can see how reasonable and how inductively certain it is that this thing not only thinks but created without any necessity. In other words you created for the good of the creation which is the general definition of love. Now get the summer closer to what we have is our notion of God's great that is so great will now you also tackle the question of matter and you walk people through matter existing in time and space and matter is that which has parts.
Why does matter matter, as it were, why talk about matter in the context of proving the first cause and working your way to explaining that the first cause is, in fact, Almighty God, because one of the one of the properties of the first cause is that it is in the serial meaning is not subject to the same causal spatial reality is everything that has parts that is better important because from their gateway to getting to the omnipresence of God and and the omniscience of God. In other words, it part of the if the first cause was simply a material thing in the act and behave like matter and it could, by definition, be the first cause.
The fact that it's not material.
The fact that it exists in an immature way is really mindful or doing his will, proving the fact that everything that we can touch and feel is the entire picture of what's going on in the universe so that one really really opens up a lot of doors yesterday.
So now you get into questions. All right if there is a God will just call him God first cause, and this first cause is the reason that everything else exists then you get into the question of where did matter come from there a lot of people who say matter, was always there. How do you deal with that question of God created ex Nilo that he created everything out of nothing, because that's a really mind-boggling thing for people to consider also really really really simple and trying to do. This book is trying to share the way that I started grasping the truth in a way that is hopefully digestible.
Try this one right.
If what did God used to create the universe what pre-existing matter was there document taking mold and shape into the universe while the question has a flaw in its presentation and formulation.
If there is pre-existing matter is better is been around forever and we know that that that's impossible, because it was on forever. It's been around for an infinity which never gets any particular point in time.
Yes, like the Lee Falk metric perfecto.
But there been some pre-existing matter that then God then chose to use to make this universe what the answer is no. And the reason is because there was some pre-existing matter what that matter come from was your previous cause no matter by its nature, lives in, everything that we can point to the material is in effect something else so this matter where that come from was your previous first cause that then cause that then this first cause used to make universe. The case then offers cause is really the first cause, because in the chain of was necessary to cause everything so that we can fall in that chain.
It required something. Well, that means that the creation of the universe was already caused by something previous and we said that the first cause on cause yes. So then what did the first cause use in order to make universe. The answer has to be nothing because if it already existed. It was because it was already because it had to be called by his first cause that point where there was no matter what. Only the first cause you didn't and then created everything from nothing that the creation absolutely well said. So now when you get to the issue of a first cause. Now you can get into the aspects of God's character and whether or not the first cause is some sort of impersonal force versus the God that we read about in the Bible and whether or not that first cause is thinking what sort of being the first cause is not how you begin to deal with those issues from a logical standpoint, while the whole bunch away use most clear path is one of irreducible complexity and ideal chapter of the book really really complicated long title concept and the concept of this. Let's take a very very ordinary item take a mousetrap. For example, mousetrap really has five constituent parts as a piece of wood of a plank. It had splitting as a hammer pulled back like a lever. The last the whole damn replacement as vice, where you put the bait. Five parts but one of those parts is not there.
The thing cannot work as a mousetrap.
If you have a spring to pull back the name talking to flam on the mouse if you don't have the board you have nothing to hold it together.
If you have a hammer. There's nothing get my point. Yeah, these five parts, all of them unnecessary work as a mousetrap because of that you mousetrap only conclude this was created for a purpose.
This is not a random accident because of the complexity that is what I mean by that is, without any one of its parts. The thing can't work as a whole that tells us something about the creation or purpose. It was designed. No one would believe for a second that a mousetrap happened to have the origins of the first matchup like this would happen to fall on somebody's garage floor and then over time landed on it right no public place will splitting happened to land, but then attached some others hammer a lever attached itself to that was then pulled back and all held together in an immaculate way will not happen to walk by right loan what it would be everything the evidence would say that is probable but highly improbable to the possibility well, something that is far more complex than a mousetrap is a human eyeball, human eyeball, something like between the thousand to 10,000 complex parts and have the logical space the density of the of the aqueous humor and satirize our lens will curve the exact same way will not be able to see is one of two possibilities, one single design all like a mousetrap falling in the garage. Over time, and kinda just happen randomly over given a bunch of different right one horrible problem, but is actually design in the same way pickup telescope style shot a distant planet 56 and patterns of sand that eventually started forming the building blocks that started building into the pattern and then I like across the different patterns of these building blocks deduced it was some sort of language we can actually read it and decode it would think I can life on another planet will take you look into a microscope exact same thing. You will walk themselves in intricate patterns that light up the ways: that is actually readable that we can actually understand what you're looking at a DNA on a different planet from a telescope conclude there has to be intelligence behind. We look at microscope we see the exact same evidence that we we conclude random crazy I know is so crazy. I wish we had more time but you got to get the book going deeper Leo Severino with us Leo. It was delightful to have you.
Thank you so much for being with us the good work and I and I thank you so much Leo God bless you and will be right back to American culture and faith Institute recently released a survey and it showed that a shocking lease all number of Bible believing Christians feel a personal responsibility to share the gospel with nonbelievers.
I know it's really crazy because the Lord has clearly commanded us in his word to evangelize the world and to make disciples of all nations. What is going on. Well, maybe part of the problem is Christians today simply don't know how to reach a millennial generation that is very highly digital in nature and often alienated from the church. But my next guest has some ideas for keeping the gospel fresh in a culture like ours. Daniel Rice is founder of hashtag gospel, an organization created to bring the gospel to the current generation in a way that syncs with their culture and uniqueness and is out of the book which is called hashtag gospel life, hope and truth, for generation now, Daniel.
Great to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us. Now you say something Daniel which is interesting to me. You say we only have 5 to 10 seconds to persuade somebody that what were about to say is worth their time much time to make an impression. What what you talking about there. Why does that time pattern matter, especially in the context of spreading the gospel. Well, we live in an increasingly information overloaded world and deepen on your way to work this morning. Or, as you go through your day.
You are constantly bombarded with information and all of us in over the last three years have kind of build up the filter of a protective barrier to keep our brains from being overwhelmed with information on so you have a commercial comes on the television you can pretty much guess within the first five or 10 seconds of the commercial applies to you and whether you listen to it.
The same goes for conversation. The same goes for any type of media that we come across during the day is simply a defensive mechanism and if we are going to communicate the gospel in an effective way in today's age we need to want to do it in a way that bypasses that filter's interesting things.
There have been many discussions over the years. As you know about the best way to do the gospel to present the Romans Road do you use the four spiritual laws. All of these different tactics have been used over the years. Do you think that fundamentally the way we evangelize, especially to the millennial generation and maybe younger than that needs to change. In other words, have the past ways in which we share the gospel. Do you see those is not been as effective with this generation. Think for a moment gospel was 2000 years ago, but even all 21 different places. When he went to Athens the first place that he kind of sure the gospel was in the high Council area and he said that the people listening to guys check out this statue that is here that says to the unknown God. I know him.
Let me tell you about them and then he proceeded to tell them all about Jesus Christ and the gospel and he used even some verbiage and some quotes from local poets in his presentation of the gospel and you watch him go round from different city to different city. You never see him present the gospel the same way twice.
He would always get to know his audience and presented in a way that was engaging program.
You mentioned some great methods assuring the gospel but I think each generation. Even in the generation each culture kinda have their way that they're going to understand the gospel best based on the way they interact with the world around them. Interesting. Your right course, there are a lot of different ways that we can evangelize and it does change the message doesn't change, but sometimes some of the techniques change based on who you're speaking to you.
Concerned, I know about people, especially on the fringes of the church. So when you're talking about doing evangelism in a way that works for these people. What sorts of ideas do you have along those lines for people who really might have grown up in church, but they laughed highly reach those people. What sorts of ideas you have probably in the universal truth.
One of the best way to share the gospel is to listen first and people are on the fringes for a reason that it is just pick you know I am to be on the French today. The things that have happened to them in their life and in the way that they have interacted with the world around them have put them where they are and so we are jobless. If we want to assure the gospel effectively learn about find out about them care about them. Of the two greatest commandments are love God and love others.
Caring about people to learn enough to learn their story should be kind of a no-brainer.
And so as we look at these groups that either of grown up in the church and been burned or became disillusioned or disenfranchised first thing we need to do instead of trying to look cool. Maybe a formulaic approach is to learn about them and get to know them and find out why they are aware they are right. So then we go back to the 5 to 10 seconds scenario that we discussed before how do you use that first 5 to 10 seconds with somebody like that to even get that conversation going well.
A lot of times people will elongate that window of opportunity if they sense that you care about them and if you're generally genuinely interested in what they have to say is probably the number one thing, the number two thing is, once you find out what they're interested in have a conversation about it. We will do a number of ways social media being one. What a great opportunity to share the gospel in a worldwide global marketplace enough. One of the places that Paul used to love to go to the marketplace and strike up conversations and social media is a powerful tool for good or evil.
And you know what a great place to go into strike up conversations with anybody who will listen about the best news ever been told on her right now. When you raise the issue of social media, you're right, it can be used as a tool for good or evil depending on the people you're interacting with. For sure, but the problem. For example, was some social media is the limitations you might have. Whether it's the number of words you can use or if it's a media that really has pictures more than it has words what you find is some of the challenges of using social media in order to spread the gospel and what and what would you say are some of the advantages of using social media. I would like any other tool for the purpose intended for what it is felt that work well if you use it for something that it never was intended for work. Well I was going to fail if you try to use a hammer to the screw and the screw not to be great. And so with social media is kind of a mass-market on-ramp to discussions about the gospel and so what we have done is we've created social media content that really kinda opens the door for conversation. I think a lot of people would agree that when you share with the gospel when you're sharing the gospel with someone. It's really over the first time ever heard God is drawing someone to himself. If you usually work in a bunch of different angles and there are many different people in many different environments and things that he's using to draw them and so what social media can be, or what. We've also have a video so short little video series.
Talk about some new things are what the book are no personal relationships can be, one step in that chain to draw them to a play for them.
They couldn't choose what they want to do with the gospel. Yes, so would videos be one of your prime tools on social media for trying people and I watched one of your videos. For example, on your website about a rescue plan, which was very well done. Is that your primary way of getting people drawn in a little bit to further the conversation sure yeah that is one way that we do it in and if you'll notice all the videos are two minutes or less will eliminate such a busy time, and after scrolling through social media and the video comes up to be a great minute video about making meatloaf. But if it's a 20 minute video one minute. Go scroll past them so you know what these videos do is there there made to be compelling communicators of little parts of the gospel in and of themselves, but short enough so that people don't scroll past her and I've even use them in conversation when were talking about a specific topic pull out my phone and go to Facebook and click on one of the videos on the forgiveness know you God can forgive me have done too many bad things well Michelle you this little video here. It's only two minutes long as they do a great job really is safe way to break will come right back with Daniel Rice hashtag gospel is his book and will be back after this the millions of Americans to feel uncertain when it comes to healthcare as a Christian are you looking for healthcare that doesn't violate your morals and convictions were happy to inform you that there is a solution and that solution is liberty healthcare liberty healthcare is a community of like-minded Christians who work together to pay for their medical costs. It allows you to decide how, when and where you will access healthcare so you can make the best choice for you and your family.
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There's a banner to click and chant Mefford.com about ways to engage people, especially in the millennial generation and maybe younger and move these folks in the direction of conversations where they will be able to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. There are a lot of people on the margins these days, we see the statistics all the time about millennial's, who may be had grown up in the church and then left the church there kind of on the fringes and this is a digital age.
There are different cultural things that they are drawn to that perhaps boomers or busters might not have been drawn to. But we gotta take into consideration how this generation thinks and acts and so we are talking with Daniel Rice about this whole subject.
His book is called hashtag gospel. So before we went to the break, Daniel. We were talking about some of the things that you do so, especially online. You have video clips or video series. Sometimes that you will use to get conversation started to rain is where does it go from there. Because for a lot of people who do the older kind of evangelism. Not that you're discounting that but who are used to doing longer gospel presentations. The question might be okay will show a video but how do you really get to the meat of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Get into some of the Scripture explain it in a deep way that is gonna take more time do they end up having the patience to sit through a conversation where you really do explain the biblical content of the gospel that is a great question. I think all the things that were talking about video website book. They're all just cool and there meant to be used by people who are interested in sharing the gospel and making disciples and building a relationship with the people that are ministering to and so outside of the relationship and are just kind of cold and dead. But in the context of relationship they are pretty effective tools and you bring up a good question, just about, you know this is kind of a longer process. You're exactly right. You know sometimes you know these tools will give you an opportunity then to go deeper and talk about specific no reason that they have been Rent-A-Center holding back on Christ are there reasons that they have avoided church and avoided Christianity, and as we work through these things of the Bible is everything we need for life and godliness, and so we can use the things that they are talking about to connect with parts of the Bible that really speak into the deep issues that they are feeling. You sound some of these approaches to be as you have been doing your own interacting with people online. For example, it's been kind of a new thing for me, but it's really been great to see people respond even locally, and I've been able to actually go through the book with a couple of people that really enjoyed it and people who are one of the guys that I was able to go through this book with we meet for lunch and talk.
We just kind of slowly made our way through and talk about these issues and so much of it was kinda brand-new for him and that is an incredible thing and what would seem to most of us, gospel, saturated society to come across somebody who is unfamiliar with the but I feel like that is more and more becoming the case people are raised or walked away and put it on their mind and soul. We talk about the gospel we talk about God's love. We talk about grace through faith. It is kind of a new concept for a lot of people. It is do you find among the people you are speaking about that. There are one or two main points, the wrestling with. It seems in in various generations there may be overwhelming issues of the time. That might be what what 70 would consider a barrier to my becoming a Christian. What sorts of things.
If any have have come up in regard to the millennial generation that these issues are tough ones but Christians do have answers to those you I think there are a few, and again it depends on the person, not quite so important to talk to them and get to know them, but something that rise to the surface that have been a barrier to the gospel is kind of the bad reputation that Christians have for being hateful and judgmental of the observed or not. I think it depends on the circumstance. But you know when they when you get to know somebody and they grow to trust you enough the kind open up and talk about some of the things I think that is just an enormous truth that helps them see that we don't gospel is not about you know hatefulness.
The gospel is not about you know judging people. It is about justice.
It is about sin. It is about God's wrath but also about a God who loves his creation enough to make a way. You know, sparing no expense. Not even the death of his own son is exactly right. So in your book you're talking about Paul's explanation of the gospel in Romans. In Romans is one of my favorite books in the Bible. I'm sure it is yours as well.
Everybody loves Romans you take Romans and do Romans and explain the gospel as we see in Romans on the Internet or in a personal discussion with the millennial.
How in the world do you incorporate the truce of Romans. In a way that really grabs people is authentic and relevant when you look at the way that he would communicate truth of the people in his day.
So many times he would pair it with story and that in the book hashtag gospel what we've done we've taken kind of the story of the concept and truth in Romans from first chapter all the way to the end and paired each of these concepts with kind of a narrative or story that really breaks it down to me. We open the book with Romans chapter 1 and we talk about coffee off a copy of the universal things up to them will have some kind of form in almost every culture in the world and yet we use this illustration about coffee to really dig into the concept of universal and nobody wants to talk about the fairly universal sympathy. My talk about coffee and then, even as we dig deeper into that illustration. We talk about in all fairness, and one of the things about Romans chapter 1 that's super encouraging for everybody is there is an even playing field. Doesn't matter what color your skin. It doesn't matter how many Facebook likes matter how much money you have enough of those things matter. We all start off on the same level which is completely know without hope, and it is only God can give hope and so those things are woven into the gospel and our culture right now is really into the quality.
Our culture is really into making sure there's an even playing field and using those cultural touch point we can move into talking about the truth of the gospel's solicitors been hearing your ideas and all the good ideas that you have using tools social media tools and whatnot in order to get conversations about the gospel started they might be single and why do II don't make videos.
I don't know how to do much on social media, but I would like to be able to do more evangelism of the younger generation.
Maybe there are generation acts or a boom or bust or what have you and they want to be able to evangelize to a younger generation, but feel a little bit insecure about their own social media skills. What sort of advice would you have for those listeners will come back to the person you wanted to read somebody love them listen to them on. Try to understand where they're coming from and and through building that relationship.
Doors will open if you want to get to know you know the effective ways to reach millennial you can, you know there are a lot of great resources out there you can log onto www.hashtagaboutgospel.com. We have different resources on their use, but I think it really kinda goes back to you may not be media savvy, you may not be social media savvy, but you can listen and you can love and if you do those two things well that will open doors that you wouldn't even believe for sharing the gospel and then if not just about sharing the gospel and trying to get someone to make a one-time decision were called to make disciples. That means that the relationship continues after that would make a decision and we then help them learn what it means to walk the way that Christ would have us to walk in and really hashtag gospel book talk about that quite a bit to it doesn't stop with no Romans chapter 7 Romans chapter 8, and conversion. It goes on to what is now our role in society what the role of the rescue plan I got a drawn out from the beginning of time and then Romans in the later chapters talk about how we as Christians are to interact in a world that doesn't share our values in a world that sometimes even hostile to the way that we think now how we interact there and the Roman author Paul does a great job of really tackling some of those tough issues. It's absolutely well such good advice and some really good ideas for how to start the conversation with people whether it's online or in person. And you're right. You have to love people and care about them and ultimately that is key to fulfilling the great commission.
The name of the book again hashtag gospel and that is also the name of the website by Daniel Rice hashtag gospel.com and Daniel. It was great, thank you so much for joining us.
God bless you and thank you for being part of our Saturday, we thank you so much for tuning in. God bless you and will see you next time