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Janet - Mefferd - Today - Mary Jo Sharp (Apologetics/Atheism)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd
The Truth Network Radio
October 30, 2019 3:12 pm

Janet - Mefferd - Today - Mary Jo Sharp (Apologetics/Atheism)

Janet Mefferd / Janet Mefferd

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October 30, 2019 3:12 pm

Do Christians give God a bad name? Mary Jo Sharp, assistant professor of apologetics at Houston Baptist University, joins me to talk about it and her book, "Why I Still Believe: A Former Atheist's Reckoning with the Bad Reputation Christians Give a Good God." Plus: Why is gospel music star Kirk Franklin boycotting any future involvement with the Dove Awards? We'll talk about it. That and more on the next JANET MEFFERD TODAY.

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This Janet met for today podcast is sponsored by Liberty healthcare Liberty healthcare is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that allows you to control and manage your own healthcare and choose any doctor or hospital in the nation. If your freedom loving American looking for contract free healthcare call now 855-585-4237 or go to liberty, health is our confidence is in Christ alone hypocrites or heard somebody who's left the Christian faith say something like it. I've never actually given much credence to that excuse because people who say that usually do have alternative reasons for avoiding or repudiating the faith of former atheist say to that claim organ to talk about it today with Mary Jo Sharp she left atheism and now serves as an assistant professor of apologetics at Houston Baptist University.

She's also the founder and director of confident Christianity apologetics ministry and today will be discussing her book. Why I still believe a former atheist's reckoning with the bad reputation.

Christians give a good God, Mary Jo, great to have you with us.

Thank you so much for being here. And I'm glad to be here this is interesting, your whole testimony I think is really interesting.

You grew up in the Pacific Northwest and a lot of us know that is a very non-Christian area of the country.

What happened how the world did you make that truck from atheism to Christianity.

What was the chain of events for you will like you said. I grew up in an area that was considered a post-Christian and I wasn't raised in church and in fact my parents had left the church when I was too young to remember though what I was raised on while Christianity first of all with the all I knew of it was what I saw on TV and the movies pretty shallow and I will what I did experience was the great beauty of the big Northwest which I was raised in.

My parents were very much into science and nature and the arts and so I developed this to an all in wonder at the beauty of what humans can do through the arts and sciences, and I think that that over the years may be more receptive to discovering the artist behind everything and so in my my high school years, I began to wonder. You know, I've been hearing my dad loved to watch a sideshow to the Carl Sagan fan and I began to wonder into what is this all for you nor we just did kind of insignificant planet off in the far corner of the universe. If that's the case, and you know what what does my life really matter and at that time that I began to have the kind of questions as an older teenager, I had a high school band director, who was a Christian who never shared his faith who gave me a Bible as a graduation gift and he said when he got to college and have hard questions.

I hope you'll turn to that. So actually I really respected him and my background is in music education. I've actually taught band myself and so I greatly respected him and I began to eat. He had had the right time.

So began to read the Bible and through reading the Bible like I was fine. But what I ended up playing with that source.

The artist behind all of this intelligence and beauty that I found in the world.

During college I began to visit churches on my own. It's like I got the opposite paradigm going on.

I went off to college and is looking into faith that is opposite for most, and eventually I found a church where I heard a clear presentation of the gospel of Jesus and by that time, I've been searching and seeking and I was ready to make that commitment is ready to trust in Jesus as my Savior thought of how I came to Christ is so neat. You know I love that part where you stalk the book about your high school band director because first of all, it would seem to be a bit unusual for a teacher to give a student a Bible at all, much less in the Pacific Northwest that something of a miracle it would seem that he actually still teaching and for a while and he was teaching at a Christian University. He used to tell his students, you know I I actually risked losing my job by Dennis and I knew that that's what I was going out that with no possibility and apparently my response to him wasn't that great so he actually did worry that I was gonna tournament.

Oh my goodness, what does he know what ended up happening with you that you became a Christian, did you ever go back to them all yet he and I still keep in contact is nice. The dad is really neat without what happened to me when you look back. For example, and you say you were an atheist before you became a Christian, did you really understand what atheism was about because many people of poked holes in atheism and said it's kind of a lazy man's way at times of not even wrestling with the question of whether or not Jesus Christ was the son of God was that kind of more your form of atheism or was it more of an intellectual atheism, how deep did it really go out looking back really good question. I know I would more of I talk about more of a non-CSI did not have a belief in God and so the title atheist some atheist don't like the use of the word atheism because I wasn't deeply looking into the philosophy of atheism and making a commitment to that.

I know I did not have belief in God and I've even heard atheist when they don't want me when I get into engagement with them and they say, listen, and I don't need to argue for belief in something I just don't believe in God and not been that's what they're qualifying themselves. That's how they're qualifying themselves as atheists that would be the kind of atheist that I was right will when you talk about the fact that you were really in search of finding the artist behind the things that you know you notice that were artistic and beautiful in life. Did you have any specific doubts to overcome in order to become a Christian.

In other words, did you have any problems with the historicity of the resurrection of the person of Christ, or even the issue of Christians being hypocrites is what I was discussing at the beginning of the show were any of those things hurdles you had to overcome in order to become a Christian. I don't think did not actually come into play until after I became a Christian and that when I started to have the questions about what was it that I committed to and how do I know it's true and and a lot of that came about because of my interactions with Christians in the church yes well tell tell us a little bit about that because you talk about. For example, being talked to about the way you dressed in things like that. But what what was it like making that transition into the church because it wasn't exactly seamless. It would seem that for me it is very different because I come from my area in the big Northwest Portland, Oregon, and very culturally different form from where I ended up going to school which was in a southern state in the United States. And so my my coming into the church was through Southern evangelical Christianity. And that's a whole culture into itself I mean there's some threads of similarity because were all you in America and there it knew the difference in culture and so I was nervous coming into the church because I didn't know what was expected of me. I did know how to be in church. I do know, yet beat. These are all new. I would like the new kid in class and so I yeah I show up to the church and my expectation is that I'm going to find all these people who are seeking after the good true beautiful God, whom I know who I'm drawn to and what I get from the very start from the very first day where I'm walking into church as a brand-new believer can be my first time and I'm gonna share with this congregation that I become a Christian. The very first greeting that I get is that I'm dressed inappropriately. So I get I judge mentalism in condemnation from the very start. That's a good wasn't the pastor's wife who did it as well. Yes it was bad moves to deal with that.

Did you speak to her directly about it.

Did you just kinda slink away. I mean, how did you cope with that after the fact. Or did you go back and address it at all, but what happened well. I actually think I didn't know church culture.

I wasn't sure what to do. So I am my husband I was married at that time we were young marrieds in college and I let him take the lead. He had grown up in the church had grown up in the South and so he was. He just took the lead and said like hey will will get that taken care of and we went down into church and you I'm confused at that point there's like a I don't know what to how to express it or what to say and I know there's a little bit of anger going on, but at that point it was so different from when I expected that I didn't know how to handle it.

I what I did. Instead, I'm not. I'm not a person who shies away from stuff quickly, or if my deep feelings hurt quickly so you know I would. I'm to go up there and I'm going to walk the aisle today, in spite of what was said to me, and I'm to stand there and asked the pastor and greet everybody I that's kind of how I am a little bit of a fighter, so I didn't. I didn't slink away from church part of it was confusion part and I didn't approach her, because my husband handled it.

The other part was because now I'm a medical at one incident.

You know, tear down this moment for me, yet will that's cool because there might have been some people in your position. Who would have just said CF I'm out the door. Forget it. Yeah, yeah, and I would say that you have from that very beginning. That was the early leave early on, the precursor to my doubt like there were instances that started culminating to where I said, you know, I'm not sure if these people are actually reading the same Bible I am and if they believe it. Now is the sort of thing that was going on in my mind is I'm not sure if they believe what I want to pick up this discussion were to pause for short break.

Mary Jo service with us why I still believe is her book and will come back to the discussion. After this listening to Jennifer to you among the millions of Americans to feel uncertain when it comes to healthcare as a Christian are you looking for healthcare that doesn't violate her morals and convictions were happy to inform you that there is a solution and that solution is liberty healthcare liberty healthcare is a community of like-minded Christians who work together to pay for their medical costs.

It allows you to decide how, when and where you will access healthcare so you can make the best choice for you and your family. Starting at $249 for a single up to $529 a month for a family that's mom dad and all the kids. This is how healthcare should be for more information call 855-585-4237 or visit light your that's like your and regain control over your healthcare costs 855-585-4237 or light your Together were changing healthcare for good. When a young woman in crisis walks into a pre-born pregnancy center. She's on a journey in the ministry of pre-born is there to help her bring her journey to life Janie. She is the little peanut last week that I'm glad I made the decision to keep Raven on his life tainted by a deftly changed my life based pre-born offers free ultrasounds to women in crisis pregnancy centers nationwide because when a mom in crisis sees her baby on ultrasound. She's more likely to choose life for her baby. In fact, 8/10 women will choose life. If they see their babies on ultrasound which usually pre-born in the cause for life for $140 you can sponsor five ultrasounds.

All gifts are tax-deductible, and 100% of your sponsorship goes to saving babies to donate, call 855402 baby 855402 baby that's 855-402-2229 where there's a banner to your love can save a life. We are back on Jennifer today. Thanks for being with us. Mary Jo Sharp is with us as well.

An assistant professor apologetics at Houston Baptist University and author of why I still believe a former atheist reckoning with the bad reputation. Christians give a good God, Mary Jo, you were sharing a little bit before we went to the break about your first experience in a church after becoming a Christian. It didn't go so well but as you mentioned you were a bit of a fighter, but you also talked about the precursor to doubts that you ended up having what what went on in that regard. Yeah so today. Over the time that the early years and hurt my husband and I actually got involved with youth ministry and very quickly because the youth minister for church left suddenly and so we got involved with ministry and with when I started to get involved with the ministry aspect of the church. Now I'm starting to see some of the details and some of what's actually going on, saying that the complaints that people who you know and are never happy no matter the size of the inner workings of the church and so I describe it is for the ugliness in a church and I'm getting a good healthy dose of that night had good view of that over and over and what it does to me as it unites intended like I was wondering if there reading the same Bible as me more. So what I was wondering was. You are our these people really believing this Bible is true because I don't see a concerted effort on the part of people to change their behaviors in conformity with the teachings of the New Testament are the teachings of Jesus. I'm not seeing a pattern in the lives of the people who profess Jesus to become more like him and seeing them active as you know anybody else in the world and just giving themselves over the passes for their behaviors and vices and that to me didn't that in lineup and so I started wonder if it seemed inconsistent with what they're professing that that's what certain started that emotional doubt.

I would say at first of no do they really believe what they're saying they believe and then it turned and it turned into this sort of intellectual Dow. Why do I believe, and what are my reasons for saying that this is true, and I realized I didn't have any depth on those answers the problem. I know that has been II think rampant throughout all of my years in the church is been this old line that a lot of Christians fall back on, which is when a perfect, just forgiven and that's supposed to just cover everything so you can act up you cannot, you know repents when you need to you cannot be sensitive to people are as loving as you are to be or just as you said just be a troublemaker all the time how much of that do you think was Christians just not being mature Christians versus people being in the church who may not have been Christians because that's another angle as well. We know not everybody who shows up in a church on any given Sunday. You know, even if they're culturally Christian. They may not actually be true Christians and true believers in Jesus Christ were you able to work through that issue with any Spano any sort of in a way that made you feel better about what you were experiencing, or at least understanding a little bit better, a long time for me learning about the church visible versus the church invisible. I didn't. I didn't even notice that terminology until I went to Bible University for an apologetics degree because it wasn't being taught in the church so I actually united.

I think probably my naivety of the unbeliever. I equated church attendance or church membership with being a Christian and citing that because some of the trouble in my mind for what I was seeing in it. I wasn't seeing a real commitment.

I was na´ve Janet. I was very na´ve and my expectations. And very idealistic that I I thought that the people who profess Jesus were going to act so different completely transformed and changed and you know that the process in a and I had been taught that either because I'm coming into Christianity with no background in it so I didn't know that there was sanctification are that there was a process so that even people who truly believed in Christ are not just getting everything wiped out in their past and that they don't have to still deal with their own vices and such. That's for sure. So when you hear atheist.

Talk about hypocrisy in the church and you know that there's a point to be made in that regard, what's your answer to that now because clearly you didn't turn away from the faith. Despite those experiences that were so negative. How do you respond to somebody who might be a churched atheist and turned away from the faith, ostensibly because the people and churches are total hypocrites and I don't want to be a part of a religion like that thing that really kept me from turning to atheism. So therefore what I would. The conversation that I would have is that I think we really need to consider when you're leaving from the only Christianity, you need to consider what you're moving to and one of the things that I didn't like the conversion stories are out there that are highly visible in the public light and what I hear is most people talking about the problems with Christians and Christianity and pointing fingers back into the Christian belief system, but what I don't see is the converse deep consideration for what is the atheist belief system entail and that that is one of the things that really hit me hard when I got to the point where I desired to really not be a member of the church anymore. Wanting to get away from Christians and looking into atheism and seeing some huge voids in grounding like human value on being able to ground reasoning as a truth making ability that we can trust irrationality, things like that. These basic things that could not be grounded in atheistic philosophical framework launched me back or or you contact and I hit a brick wall called God. I can get past guide on those things. No matter what what suffering I had experienced the pain I experienced in the church right so the objective truth of Christianity seemed to be what was grounding you that it's true even if I'm having a bad day with Christian number X over here yet even a Christian act in the public light is not a good witness to the truth of Christianity. I still can't personally get past the objective truth of God and Jesus as the risen Savior's needs. You talk some about the debates that you've engaged in in some of the experiences that you've had you discussed this William Ln., Craig versus Austin Dacey debate you talked about your friendship with David Wood and the late Nabil Qureshi was a great guy is your ministry benefited from those kinds of experiences in terms of dealing with atheists are some of the arguments that would come up from some of these D conversion stories yeah my first debate. I actually went in hoping that the 80th arguments were to be smarter, sleeker and sexier. You know that I can say okay well I was wrong. I was duped into thinking this was trail, but I can move on and I would actually looking for something better. You know I looking for really strong arguments and the way that some of these lakes specifically that one debate between Dacey and Craig with I started to realize the deepest arguments were as good as I thought they were to be.

In fact, I was very disappointed in what I got in listening to that and when I went looking for some of those things like that debate. I didn't just look for what's the strongest Christian in a debate I can find. I was looking for why atheists were saying was a good debate from their perspective. No, something where arguments were given that were good 80th arguments and III ended up very disappointed in not because first of all is disappointed in that the arguments I heard from William Ln., Craig were not think they had ever encountered in the church on cellular the cosmological argument, the teleological argument. The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. I haven't heard these things in all of my church experience into as I was a little set at first that I wasn't getting that when I heard that the 80th arguments and they weren't good as what was being presented for Christendom. I that's when I started saying wow this is this is really disturbing to me because I try to find those answers now and when I met David in the Beale the way that they affected me.

I met them at the University when I was getting apologetics degree as part of the process of answering my own doubt I met them and hear these two guys that for the first time I meet two people in the church who are totally sold out to you know defending the truth of Christianity and at the cost of family relationships and at the cost of any they received death threats they these guys were totally and for as David called him King Jesus and I hadn't met people who that's what they talked about all the time. That's what they were interested in. That's what they're chitchatting about it dinner that I mean they really impact me how I started to wonder what am I doing what am I doing with my life.

These guys are all in. And I've been sort of floating around these questions and you know looking at him from like a spectator position so they really impacted me to move into a point of actually helping others answer their doubt. It's great. Yeah, those two are great slimming.

I still miss an appeal Qureshi. He was such a gift to the church and ask Musselman just a wonderful Christian man. This is interesting because you now have an apologetics ministry and yet I would say it's rather unusual, at least in my experience interviewing a lot of people across Christendom for a number of years to find a woman who really has an apologetics ministry has that ever come up as an issue.

Does anybody say, hey there isn't this really the purview of men to be doing apologetics, maybe that's not something a woman should be really doing is making these sorts of historical arguments.

How do you how do you deal with that. It sure does that even become an issuer, but all I am but not not as frequently as I would expect and I think part of the reason is because the people who invite me to speak to the people who don't have a problem with it right so yeah, you know, for me it is difficult and I'm an apologetics idea with the arguments from outside of Christianity. I want to get people into Christianity. I don't deal as much am not an expert in the arguments on the secondary or tertiary doctrines in the church so I don't handle these as much and end since they have it.

I don't put them on the forefront of my ministry.

I think that also is one of the reasons that you don't see me handle no it's not something that I I discuss a lot so I I do. I haven't dealt with as much but I know it's there. I know that I was not invited to a conference because I was a woman I seen that before, and it's not been just one time.

It's been multiple times on so the other people have disagreements with me doing this but that might think that they just don't invite me and you know what's so great about it is that it just confirms that even though you know we are not the same as men were still Christians, we still have a role to play and we still have brains and we have changed lives and changed hearts and have a lot of opportunity to do apologetics in our own lives. No matter where we are.

Whether or not work in a university or just a mom at home.

We can do apologetics. I want to refer you to. Confident, Mary Jo's website. The name of the book. Why I still believe Mary Jo Sharp so good to talk to you. Thank you so much Mary Jo. Hey, thanks for having me on today was nice to talk to you.

Thank you.

This Janet met for today podcast is sponsored by Liberty health sheer liberty healthcare is a nonprofit healthcare sharing ministry that allows you to control and manage your own healthcare and choose any doctor or hospital in the nation. If your freedom loving American looking for contract free healthcare call now 855-585-4237 or go to liberty, health we are back on today. I have to confess I have very very long time been a fan of contemporary Christian music not so much in recent years. I can go back and listen to the old stuff, even stuff that proceeded my own time just like the older music.

Suddenly Keith Green and Twila Paris, and even back to Larry Norman as I like really ran these people were kind before my time anyway. But I still love listening to them. I just I just enjoy that music and there have been a lot of Christian artists have had a very big impact on me as a young Christian, and I appreciate not only their music but especially have learned a lot about the Bible and about the Lord and about my relationship with the Lord from a lot of Christian artist to the years and I sang everybody's greats or everybody is on the money and I do confess that in the last probably several know several years couple decades. Maybe I haven't been so much into CCM a because I'm getting older but also because I don't think the music has been as good.

I'm not even as much as I love music and I love great music and I really do Christian music. I'm not concerned about Christian music, contemporary Christian music sounding so much like voc or Beethoven or Mozart in terms of quality and musical excellence as much as I've been concerned about the lyrics and I think a lot of people feel that way. At any rate, this brings me to this story. I don't know if you saw this about Kirk Franklin. If you don't know who Kirk Franklin is. He's a wildly successful gospel music artist he's been around for quite a while and now he has announced he is going to be boycotting the Gospel music Association Dove awards after he discovered his acceptance speech at the recent ceremony was edited for television. Now he put out a video and I want to play a little bit of this because I think this is just an capitalization of everything that is being politicized in our culture today and I guess even CCM is not immune to this. Listen to cut one.

I am heartbroken that I even have to share this with you in 2016. I was blessed to win an award for best gospel artists. The Dove awards made of you may not know the Dove awards a comparison of the Christian Grammys left the still awards of the gospel Grammys for so long. The terms Christian and gospel for many codewords for white and black which history may teach us was a set up for this unfortunate place we find us sales in today during that war speech about the responsibility as a Christian and a man of color to address the civil unrest at that time that was plaguing our country with the killings of Belinda Castille and Walter Scott, just to name a few, but white police officers and at the same time there with the killings of five Dallas police officers by an African-American called upon the audience to join me in remembering that as Christians when we say nothing saying something. After standing ovation. We prayed, stood in unity for all the families affected by those tragedies. We all felt that moment that it was a shift in the climate of a separate worlds.

Unfortunately, when the speech at on the Christian network TBN that part of my speech was edited out. While this is a huge problem for Kirk Franklin and he describes how he complained about this. This is cut to make my disappointment or frustration known to the double board committee to the Trinity broadcasting network.

I never heard from TBN.

The double work committee promised to rectify the mistakes so that it wouldn't happen again in 2019.

History repeated itself was humbled when the same award and during my speech I brought attention to the murder, but Tatyana Jefferson in her home by a white police officer asked everyone in the audience and those viewing to join me in prayer for not only a Tatyana's family including her eight-year-old nephew who witnessed the killing, but also for the family of the police officer last week during the airing of the wards on the same network again. That part of my speech was edited out all right. He continues on with his story and then makes his announcement about his boycotts. After meeting with the double awards committee and representatives of TBN made the decision after prior consultation with my team about pastor Dr. Tony Evans to not attend any events affiliated with the for the double boards gospel music Association or TBN until tangible plans are put in place to protect and champion the birth city, especially with people of color have contributed their gifts and talents and finances to help build the viability of these institutions. Let me just ask a quick question here because last I looked, the Dove awards were about awarding Christian musicians for their contributions to the industry and putting out albums or CDs or digital.

Whatever these days. That made an impact on people at that. What is this what is this I'm going to boycott until you put tangible plans in place to protect and champion diversity is that the goal of Christian music now is meeting Kirk Franklin standards of championing and protecting diversity. What is he talking about well is in the cut for. I'm aware that the word boycott often has a negative connotation, finality to it, but my goal will be reconciliation as well. This accountability is important for those in torts to be informed that only did the edit my speech edited the African-American experience. Is this a little hyperbolic. I don't think the African-American experience itself has been edited out just because your speech was edited out of the broadcast and in fact the gospel music Association put out a statement saying that they had to edit it down because of time and they were sorry about what happened.

I'll get to that statement in moment but I mean listen to the languages just over the top your editing out my experience as a man of color.

Why pardon me, I mean I'm wide. I guess I don't have the same experience. But as Christians is that what is it supposed to be about I go to the Dove awards because you know I want to express my experiences as a woman who's why it's or I mean, are we getting off track here is basically what I'm saying and I'm not negating that people have opinions and I'm not even negating the fact that there are lots of disturbing social issues that go on note no doubt about it, but I just don't see how CCM is going to solve this and why editing it out of the broadcast that went on TV is a huge problem other than the fact that he wanted to put it out there and he was annoyed that it didn't get out there it's fine he can feel that way but I just I'm not really sure that CCM is gaining anything by making sure that the same kind of thing that goes on at secular award shows is now a big deal in CCM award shows and I wonder, for the people who actually bring up social issues and I'm not against bringing up social issues.

I'm not trying to be a hardliner on this, but can you just say thank you for the award to God be the glory. Could we maybe go back to Athens would be difficult, thank you so much to my mom to my dad to my husband who's always been so supportive and thank you to my music producers and thank you to my first grade teacher you whatever though the woman who taught me piano thank you so much and most of all thank you to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ I'm missing those days where that was basically the speech and I guess I'm just not woke enough.

Finally he says this cut five. I'm not asking those in the gospel community to follow my decision know this is my personal choice to take a stand and hold responsible those in positions of power. What to acknowledge the issues in a separate communities that have existed from colonialism to Jim Crow. Many of the issues facing us today. I pray that will be a significant change from this hurtful experience.

Look with anticipation for the day of healing and am committed to contributing to that process. In the end, we will not remember the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends the silence of your friends because your speech is about police shootings were edited out of the broadcast.

And I'm okay well the GMA Dove awards put out this statement on the heels of the celebration they wanted to thank everybody who came in they said due to our broadcast window. We had to significantly edit the Dove telecast to two hours which airs Sunday, October 20 in light of this, we understand that many were disappointed because there were so many memorable moments and noteworthy portions of acceptance speeches absent. Specifically, they say we were made aware of troubling concerns regarding the edit of Kirk Franklin's acceptance speech, and they said at the request of Kirk's team. We held our response regarding those concerns until we were able to speak with Kirk privately apologize directly and discuss resolutions to rectify this unfortunate issue. They said we like to publicly acknowledge that were deeply apologetic for the missteps except responsibility for error.

Blah blah blah. So now all all these other people are also boycotting. Let's see, Lecrae Natalie grand's Marvin's staff. Some of these other gospel artists because Kirk Franklin speech didn't make it onto the broadcast. We just place can we go back to thank you Lord Jesus for saving me. Thank you to the Academy for my award. Maybe I'm just a simpleton to come back content of effort. Today, after this hi this is Kirk Cameron and I am honored to be partnering with the Ministry of pre-born to help mom's choose life actor Kirk Cameron supports pre-born. My four oldest children were adopted.

That is because of caring and compassionate people who help those young mothers choose life. My wife is an adopted child and her birth mother chose life for her if it weren't for those caring individuals that help those young moms of value.

The sacredness of life.

I wouldn't have my wife I wouldn't have my four adopted children, and the two natural born children that we have wouldn't exist either.

My whole family is here because of people that are involved with ministries like freeborn freeborn funds pregnancy centers across the nation so they can offer free ultrasounds to women in crisis pregnancies.

Ultrasound is a game changer because when abortion minded women actually see their babies in their wombs for themselves. 80% of the time they choose life, would you please join us at Janet today to support the ministry of pre-born for $140 you can provide five free ultrasounds to women in crisis pregnancies a gift of $22 will provide one ultrasound and every gift helps to donate please call now 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or there's a banner to All gifts are tax-deductible, and 100% of your gift goes directly toward saving babies, you can get involved and you can help save a life for a gift of $140.05 free ultrasounds will be offered to women in crisis pregnancies.

Please call now with your gift.

855402, baby. That's 855402 baby 855-402-2229 or there's a banner to are you woke enough. I'm not working now. I I confess right, right now I'm not woke enough. I really need to work on my virtue signaling. I don't do enough complaining.

I don't do enough hyperbolic stances. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe I just really need to get my act together and become more of a woke activist, but I really look at this entire situation with Kirk Franklin and some of these other Christian artists boycotting the Dove awards in the Gospel music Association because Kirk Franklin's woke speech about police shootings was edited out of the broadcast, he's entitled to feel the way he does, but he seems to be a little tone deaf, not only on the issue of the fact that these things have to be edited down for time when they're put on TV but also to the fact that maybe, just maybe, the GMA said let's just not go political. Okay, what we all are aware of some of these social issues. But there's so much division we just focus on Christian music and we just focus on the Lord. Maybe that was part of the consideration as well.

I have no idea, but I cannot imagine that the woke virtue signaling and and I'm not denying that these are important issues, but when it becomes front and center and award shows in the secular realm people turn the TV off because they're not watching to hear your thoughts on life there watching to see who among their favorite Christian artist won the award and I just again and again and again. The liberals don't see this they think everybody is liberal and everybody is equally concerned about what they are concerned about and everybody wants them to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it and add info and I to him and rejoice and jump up and down and screaming out that's not why people tune into these telecasts. So I don't know how you resolve it.

It looks like the GMA probably will just say will never do that again. Just please give a long long rant next time. Why can he just be thankful that he's received so many awards when he says that this was a pride an attack on the African-American experience. I just don't accept that because look how many words he's he's one of the most celebrated Christian artists out there so I think you you've gotten a lot of accolades, Kirk Franklin, I'm not really sure you have any cause to call for boycotts and all the rest, it's I'm just tired of it. It's everywhere. It's constant, I just feel a little weary that some speaking of woke let's talk about this a little bit capstone report put this out about the latest Southern Baptist Church that has left the Southern Baptist convention. This is first Baptist Church, Texaco, New Mexico, nap. That's what it says leaves the SBC over resolution nine and other false teaching. The first Baptist Church sent formal notice to the Southern Baptist convention that it would disassociate itself with the SBC in a formal letter of the church elders attack the SBC's embrace of critical race theory and intersection alley. Your adoption of resolution nine at the annual meeting back in June. The letter sent by Pastor Mike McCune in the church directly engages resolution nine and its promotion of critical race theory and intersection alley as quote unquote analytical tools of use to Christians. The resolution was criticized by many Southern Baptists in the letter said it appears that the true object of resolution nine is to effect confusion, division, and ultimately destruction among the membership of the Southern Baptist convention. The letter outlined a 10 year long decline in the SBC from man center theologies to neo-Marxist ideologies. This is what they said in part over the last 10+ years we have witnessed in the Southern Baptist convention. The transition from man centered Arminianism to secular pragmatism and now to open and blatant neo-Marxism good for you guys claim you were in your position, I believe, to how you fix this fix this apart from a fresh revival of God's spirit sweeping through his church and convicting us of our sin and of our Laodiceans spirit, i.e. leaving our first love abandoning our first principles of the sufficiency and inerrancy of Scripture to guide us in both faith and practice what you do and this is an even the first church there was an article it capstone report on October 4, stay and fight or leave the Southern Baptist convention outlining how more churches are leaving the SBC citing Russell Moore and the rise of identity politics at that time.

Two additional churches had left the SBC, including a church founded in eight teen 59, and according to reports the Missouri church in a church in Tennessee left the SBC. This file is the report from the previous week detailing the New Mexico church in a Florida church exiting the SBC so this was different churches. There was one in Mississippi with a history stretching back to 1859 has about 150 members and they voted back in August to leave the SBC over the growing liberalism of SBC leaders, including Errol C. Had Russell Moran SBC Pres. JD Greer what the SBC is now pushing is the social justice agenda and they also cited the dishonorable treatment they said of Paige Patterson along with Russell more support for mosque building and the like, and again I it's so hard it's so hard because the Southern Baptist convention has been such a great denomination for so long. It's the largest evangelical Protestant denomination in the United States is a tragedy beyond description that we have seen all of this garbage infecting the SBC but at this point how long did the termites eat away at the foundation before you just can't save the house.

I have seen people online. For example, saying we don't need any particular denomination. We dare not worship any particular denomination except I think in the SBC. There is still living memory of 1979 and the conservatives who organized and were determined to take back the SBC from the liberals so far. There does not seem to be the same sort of effort going on in today's SBC you have not seen big people of more conservative conviction. Stepping forward in a major way to try to do anything.

Now I have heard that there are people who have talked behind the scenes and perhaps something is going to eventually happen, but were not 1979 anymore and I think for a lot of these churches there saying it we can change this. We can't fix this.

We complain we don't want our money going to this stuff were out. We have a big problem. I mean this was part of what we address to the stand against Marxism conference recently in Des Moines. We talked about social justice, infecting evangelicalism it's getting bad it's cutting really bad and you might have noticed it inside your own churches. Everything is woke is not in certain circles. Everything is about being woke.

Speaking of error. I gotta throw this into and this is going a little bit different direction, but I just want to slip it in before I run out of time.

This is more on cultural context but did you hear that Netflix is adding a gender fluid character to a children's cartoon called she were not a big watcher of Netflix or children's cartoons but yet you got have a gender fluid character in a cartoon and the guy who will be voicing this new character, had this to say, listen to cut six hi I'm Jacobs Abbaye and I am so excited all be joining the cast of Shira and the princesses of power is for. I think her double trouble is a non-binary shape shifting so functionally I'm playing myself. You think you always been so vital to me because I was a non-binary person is a way of escaping the confines of the world we live in right it's a way of building other reality is, and imagining the world as it could be coming on binary representation in animated shows for young folks is just so vital because young people today are already understanding that gender is first brought super early age right so it's about time the shows that were making for young people reflect the world that they understand.

I'm excited for everybody to see double trouble live up to their namesake and I can scream my head off because I don't want to make you turn off the radio, but even say today is first of all, your guy, you're a guy you're not gender non-binary. The whole idea that you can be non-binary that is neither female nor male is ridiculous. It's a total lie. It's a total like that guy. Does that sound like a woman to you does it sound like an in it to you.

His name is Jacob and you watch the video he's on guy, but he's being held up by modern Hollywood is being a hero because he's completely nuts when it comes to his understanding of male and female.

This is not something to be praised and not just praised, but shut down the throats of kids who won't see him clearly because he's voicing the character but now you got this wonderful cartoon of a gender fluid character.

Oh yes, kids understand today that gender is diverse and is on a broad spectrum. No kids don't understand that but there being propagandized to say that and there being monumentally confused and deceived by people like you and the rest of the LGBT activists who are bound and determined to create some kind of Gnostic utopia that doesn't exist and can never exist in shame on you. And shame on Netflix is absolutely ridiculous is to the point almost well maybe completely to the point we can put your kids in a room with the TV to put them in a room with a smart phone. We we really have some very difficult times had folks this is why we really need to pray for our kids, teach them the Bible teach them the truth. Don't send them out into the world without being equipped on the foundation of God's word. It's more important than ever before. Thanks for being here will see next time you're in jam efforts

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