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December 9, 2019 4:48 pm
This archived broadcast of Janet for today is brought to you by Provident films and affirm films movie overcome are coming to the small screen in time for Christmas overcome are available December 17 on digital Blu-ray and DVD are confidences in Christ alone child and will give birth to a son, and you will call him Emmanuelle.
The prophecy of Isaiah 714 was one of many in the Old Testament, foretelling the birth of Jesus the Messiah.
The baby in the manger, who was and is both fully God and fully human, but why did God have to become man in order to save us. And why is the doctrine of the incarnation so vital to the life and the health of the church that is good to be our discussion today with the Rev. Melvin Tinker, who is senior minister of St. John Newland Hall, UK, and a well-known international speaker and today will be talking about his book veiled in flesh, the incarnation, what it means and why it matters. It's wonderful to welcome me back to the show Rev. Tinker how are you very well done. We would do again thank you for inviting me all my pleasure.
It's always great to talk to you and this is really one of my favorite subjects to tell you the truth, the incarnation is a perfect time of year to talk about it you is as it is, you describe the incarnation.
I like this. The infant is the in flesh meant of the eternal son of God, which I guess to the untrained ear might sign sound a little bit complicated, but how do we understand the incarnation. How do we explain the incarnation in the simplest of terms. Well incarnation comes from a Latin word and felt it, and play in your own Catwoman school. The wood became flesh and made his dwelling among the simplest way of putting it. This piece of master God became man without ceasing to be God that fit my dog became a man without ceasing to be God and so you have this one is unique individual who has both a divine nature, which is distinct from his human nature. Yet the one person we only have one human nature, not at today to be behind and write a song with father. Yes, so it's simple the way that you describe it, and yet there's a great mystery there and we know how difficult it can be when you get into more detail about the issue that you've raised here that God was fully man. This is hard for people because you say well how is it that if men are sinful that God could become a man, and Jesus did not inherit a sin nature from his mother. Now how do we answer questions like that.
Well with talking about God becoming human being. Now, walking is not integral being human right out of human, fully human, and yet not simple before he fell and so when Christians die, the cross comes again you have the new given that could glorify God is those bodies will be one not be any less human, been more human being what we were meant to be so was nothing for you to fight its vital that Christ is by thought out we mean not simply that Jesus was incapable at what would that did not actually capable of sending right if you like you that no situation with you would even want to single contemplate.
It was futile even to contemplate sin actually is true that you know simple didn't go off and pulled his eyes which you have no such sinful desires because he was born conceived of the Virgin Mary of the Holy Spirit under full effect. Man and perfect on this 11 post yes yes so this points out the critical truth that the birth of Jesus Christ had to be a virgin birth.
There are some people who would argue with that and say doesn't really matter. She was just a young woman, Mary was just a young woman, not necessarily a virgin but that is absolutely essential write to the incarnation. Yeah, it is more accurate about the videoconference. Yes anyone right and you baby but what about a complexion and this is why it was important that she was a virgin and that no question about the identity of Jesus is because, for example, that you know she would matter to Joe Smith and Jones. If it had such event cools with the without any complexion and lights along the Holy Spirit then book about the original conception will be? Yeah, one of the spirit was virgin men without any shadow of the doubt that this was a miraculous complexion, which of course is what that's what you want to you will like to please people away. It's right exactly.
So we have a lot that's packed into the understanding of the incarnation and you talk at the beginning of your book about some of the people who are really challenging the incarnation, and I know that was quite true in church history when we go back to the time of the Council of Nicaea and you know, Athanasius and Arius and all of that who Jesus really was, etc. etc. what about today where do you see some of the challenges coming from regarding whether or not Jesus truly was fully God and fully man.
Well, you know, getting it from academic and church leaders imaginable. Want to come from. You'll find the what always the form ship of the church that Catherine give it school and and she sent me a limited method and find cheap tickets on sale of relating people to cancel the Johnson saying talk to just different mythical way of speaking of Jesus being not know God and a man but soon someone who was just a window into God's superior in that was not different to taking Sir that is offshore to what the Bible teaches in wealthy historic creeds want the Nicene Creed and all the Christian church down the ages. These people actually like him. Catherine Shorey, for instance, in the past, don't keep looking. What they're proposing. Actually Christianity promoting totally different religion.
The subdivision and the unethical component condemnation. One John 49 that Jesus come in the flesh of antichrist.
Yes, right exactly 1st time for really important passage in that regards. Why is that when we look at me that's a perfect passage to bring up why is that doctrine, the one that is mentioned as indicative of the spirit of antichrist. If somebody denies that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh collapses and lower number of things long revelation, how do we know God who can only know God is, he reveals himself to wanted the Hebrews eligible. Yes, God has spoken these times in various ways.
In the past, but in these last spoken to us by phone and goes on to describe who the son is long and everything was made pulled thinking on the defined side of reality. And so what we saying here is that this is fit will have you know God, have you got exit. I always say well I haven't seen the routing #2000 years ago.
I would suggest we Jesus we have the definitive revelation of God comes my dog to sit before action is all that's right, golf is a legal that just a moment, we do need to pause her very quick. Rt. Rev. Melvin Tinker my gas building/this is are you among the millions of Americans who feel uncertain when it comes to their healthcare right now is the only time of year you can do anything about it. So make the switch to liberty help Sharon as a healthcare sharing ministry liberty.
Healthcare is not insurance you can pick your program choose your own doctors and hospitals and choose when you sign up.
They have programs for singles, couples and families, small with no contracts starting at only $199 per month go to liberty healthcare.org/GMT that's liberty healthcare.org/GMT films and different films comes over, coming to the writing time for Christmas. When you find the one I was afraid I was skiing. I know what to do and wishing he was like you not read in a moment. I feel I'm not going to be up to be a mom to. These are the voices that a young mom in crisis years. She wants to make the right choice, but society and those around her, telling her that a pre-born baby is not a life pre-born is the largest provider of free ultrasounds in the country, shining a light into a mother's well introducing her to the beautiful life growing inside of her heartbeat that changed my life just from now to so would you join with pre-born and Janet met for today to help save 400 babies by the end of the year for $140 you can sponsor five ultrasounds and help say five babies from abortion and now through match your gift is doubled.
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We are tackling a very important biblical topic, the incarnation and what a wonderful topic, especially to be discussing at this time of year it is outlined in a beautiful way and a new book veiled in flash the incarnation what it means and why it matters. Rev. Melvin Tinker. The author is with us right now and we were talking a little bit about you and mentioned Hebrews 1 and I want to get into Hebrews 1 in much more detail, but you were trying to finish her point there before we had to run to that break Rev. Tinker that please go ahead. I'm sorry we had why John and one John Poole to be deal all do not come in the flesh of the antichrist spirit of the antichrist revelation is at stake. We cannot know God clearly and definitively without the salvation of the state is one of the big theme both the old and New Testament Old Testament on topics including the song is that God alone can save only God can save the second we got that all cells know that creature can save his only God can say throughout. The first thing the second thing is that only humans can represent humans and so we we need someone who can actually representative to Godalming.
This again is appointed. Hebrews the nature of the high priest must be able to represent those who send yes all you have in Christ is God. God is the one who saves by going to the cross on alcohol use phrases as a human being who is both the victim and the priest of the cross. The cross of the alternate he is the victim.
The sacrifice and also the one who officer sacrificing his own body is priest and so little you knew he would go to save to become human, without surrendering his conduct. We see Jesus, the perfect dog the perfect man. It's wonderful. It's it's it really is beyond understanding except we know that's what God's word reveals to us in Hebrews 1 the whole chapter of Hebrews, when in fact the entire book of Hebrews is one of my very favorites in the whole Bible but went when you talk about Jesus being God's final word you alluded to the beginning hear the first several verses where it talks about long ago God spoke to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us in his son.
And it goes on like you said to describe whom his Sabino. He appointed heir of all things etc. etc. why is that significant and what is that really saying because, for example, when you you you mention the Aryans before the Jehovah's Witnesses would be the modern-day equivalent of the Aryans who believe that Jesus was the first being God ever created, and there are some who would still say that that was God the first creation of God when he talks some of the verbiage in the Bible.
People can get very confused by that and say what it sounds like Jesus is just the highest created being of God. But that's not what this is saying no you have here is again will talk about relation with phrasing in the past God spoke through the prophets at many times and this way you could talk about that is them in bits and pieces okay over a period of time, but in these last days and this is prepared from the coming of Jesus on what is spoken to us by song that's very definite. Not just any sum, his son and what is been appointed heir of all things and through school so he made the universe. Now again then we we get to them talking again of the nature of the song ranges of gold will be in the exact representation of his being so just the rays of the sun call all distinguishable but can't be separated from the sun itself that is the SON some LSU and some sandwiches with with that with Jesus.
So, I meant about exec with temptations being the ideas that stem from the these neatly the image of the stem is exactly representation of that guide.
So so stating all things by his powerful one will creatures count stable will go the language at which you find in the Old Testament gold. The gold language of the Old Testament or the activity of God speaking revealing creating staining saving all now constituted here to this one will be something I will make this even more remarkable. In my view is that the elected Hebrews was locked. Probability was written by he clearly bite you to choose a name you have good talking thing to say that some himself was priestly caste unit and he's got this Jewish Jews absolutely solid on this. Only one God speaking to someone who just a few years later. Failure was paying bills and laying talk into my walk: two eggs, all competent management to the same level as Yahweh well reasoned that Jesus is teaching but also his own acts, he acted as God called the school gate since he raised the dead girl stuff if you like, and so conclusion regarding flesh course and having predicted his own resurrection and then accomplishing it was so quite extraordinary as well.
That was the confirmation that he really was who he said he was pension which which again what goes on pico you provided. Since he sat down with what happened and that is not the place of angels. This is the place of God right right. He superior to the Angels.
That's another important theme of Hebrews 1 yeah exactly. So you know you have this interesting section when it's talking about Jesus being superior to the Angels for to which of the angels did he ever say you are my son, today I have begotten you. And of course people talk about Jesus is the only begotten son of God.
But here's what's interesting when you get down to verse six again with the Arianism it says and when he again brings the firstborn into the world, he says, and let all the angels of God worship him when there are people who will look at firstborn. To this day and say well if he's eternal and if he were begotten is you Christians say that he was, how could he also be the firstborn. How are we to understand that word in the context were truly it is saying that Jesus is to be worshiped as God brought out like for instance so yeah this is codified in ovarian medical areas basically just say that Jesus was superior creature. He wasn't.
He wasn't gone. He was a superior crazed creature created by God to do other things like going to be of the creatures and self that was denied of counsel is not undefeated them but firstborn is a term referring against the Israelis described as goats, firstborn, Princeton, and David and it is very failing to superiority status.
The one who will inherit. So that's what he means by firstborn ultimately Mitchell is real such right, but designate chosen by God to be special people that's important and cyclical growth. Angels worship him.
Yes, that is firstborn and no no in the holy Bible. You do not worship anyone other than God exactly how to explain that exactly what you mentioned before that the it because of the incarnation you have God becoming man and so he will become the victim that is the Sabbath sacrifice for sin.
But he's also the priest out the final priest, but he's also the final prophet isn't that now going back to what we were discussing earlier in the last days he has spoken to us in his son where he had the prophets out there prophets. So what is this mean for God's revelation we have a lot of people today even trying to say.
Today we still have prophets. People get direct messages from God and as it is important in the first full To wall and all the free role of Christ, which they reformers who alone, prophet, priest and king.
Yes, all for long, full and final revelation of God is the priest who office location for sin uneasily came to sit down in the lot hundreds not just in heaven.
So although we at key figures in rolled in the Old Testament about different.
You have to be together to come together in this wall visual on them some degree, so he is God exactly right.
Well will take the crew God is the one who saved and goaded long rules sure is. That's why when Jesus himself says if somebody says come out here. Here is the Christ follow him.
It's knocking to be made. We know it's not to be Jesus, that's correct. Yeah. So we have. We we we we need no further revelation below because there is no relation we have it in Jesus and is what he's done so and recorded for only infallibly in the Scriptures and daily next thing to happen is the second coming. I got a big log beautiful. I love that was let's pause for another break building/is the name of the book by the Rev. Melvin Tinker will come back discussing the incarnation.
Your enchantment for today. This archived broadcast of Janet for today is brought to you by Provident films and affirm films movie overcome are coming to the small screen in time for Christmas overcome are available December 17 on digital Blu-ray and DVD today. Here's your host Joe we are so glad that you are with us and I am really glad to have with us. The Rev. Melvin Tinker. He is senior minister of St. John Newlin Hall in the UK. He's a well-known international speaker and author of many great books. His latest is veiled in flash the incarnation what it means and why it matters, and we been talking about.
Hebrews one in particular there's so much to discuss any John chapter 1 is also a very important passage, is it not on the subject of the incarnation. Rev. Tinker, because that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Interesting how different parts of Scripture point clearly different ways so you have a great Philippians that did not come to be quality you don't think the graph and sell them something to go that high view of Christ.
They should define the human that questions 115 that great him.
Hebrews 1 we see that John chapter 1 and will clean them anywhere else more clearly, but very interesting way that it is splashed over the whole revelation revelation is absolutely prayer about the divinity and humanity of Jesus, the lion, lamb, so you have these these these guys to say well we can use a late development tool all may come in the church mainly in the Greek influencing unit with the Council of Nicaea in the Mekong with Kelsey, she announces that in the New Testament.
I want these native people did mainly to count the heretics was to formulate these things in a way which the boundaries same here the boundaries outside these boundaries is heresy mounted freedom to be my complete this lot.
The boundaries, Jesus is one person that Jesus is divine is human. Yes, to make full, keep things right. Right. And this was something that has come to us late in church history because a lot of Christians had to fight for this truth didn't they through the years they had to clarify this for the rest of the church with these ancient creeds.
These ancient councils that took place right and people think this was just like a group of academics getting together for coffee. I'm just not the only thing it will some of the people. What it like hunting in Chalcedon. Some of the emotions they should play leaders that some of them had the same without having a soul on what happened because they had suffered like they had been tortured okay so these people are passionate because the people salvation with study documents so they wanted to take anything any dilution of all of the Christian faith is absolutely crucial so long as Nicaea in 3 to 5 condemned Arianism and then Casey was God alone can save that for Jesus mostly gone right always Constantinople create long the the family ready for full that Jesus was fully human. Yes.
One sexist Baytril for three long and that was saying, look, this is just one person you schizophrenic crisis of human mind and the divine mind eventually got loaned to nature so that with NetSuite and I was sitting metal was kind of funny, I saw a couple weeks ago. I think it was somebody was trying to make the argument on the Internet that the Council of Nicaea was not a genuine Council of Christians because there was privilege involved in the people who did. I'm not. I can't make this stop.
You know how we were in this time, don't you, everything is our mail as well. Cars, of course, want to why yes yes the nations with African yeah okay but it was it was not organic.
In other words, you have these very powerful men who were forcing the Council of Nicaea to go in a certain doctrinal direction. But when you start mentioning all the people who'd suffered for Jesus Christ. It's a little hard to think that they would do that. I mean it's crazy what people often forget is that many think that when you send out King Kong. What we called it in the area compromise saying that Jesus had the same nature as God's nature. Homo great one. Something to think something less than compromise is called similar substance homeboy and often they see us another no and the five time slots on the affirmations was banished and ended up living in the desert that's out for the persecution wall of but he won the day. So if you talk about power. The power was on the side of the heretics to deploy otherwise why would he have had to make that pronouncement about countrymen the whole world was with Sam.
Why would he have had to say that the first likely that's right yet again the world basically said like the whole world is faded. I don't care this goal is that it and that's enough for me right exactly what was about when you say rightly, of course, that only God can save us. I think there people who don't know enough about Christian doctrine to understand why that would be they'd say. Well if he doesn't get down to the holiness. The nature of God and also the sinlessness of God.
How would you best explain that to somebody who finds that confusing.
Why couldn't Jesus just being extraordinary profit and die for our sins will I think that we don't understand the seriousness people on it. It's like someone say that fence along Princeton and he would be a cool thing to say about someone who is HIV-positive got a dying of AIDS how well you do take an aspirin will be fine. No, it's ridiculous because of the seriousness of the disease dreadful is killing thought was just the thought of all the money peccadillo with God is something which with these and twisted being spilled nothing else I will do everything else will dreadful without consent is so ingrained you know the hard drive is damaged and is going to take some want of a man's how to do this know me at profit only gold exactly that's a great thing that people underestimate think that's a really important point. I think that really kind of encapsulates the spirit of the age, even for people who will acknowledge that sin exists and will see rightly that sin is the only doctrine that can be empirically verified. His chest continues to put it, even if they acknowledge it.
There is even a reluctance I found in the church to really cop to how bad sin really is even and especially in ourselves. We really don't want to look at the other guys the problem. It's not really me but it is me yeah what is the time was a problem with the human rights. He wrote back saying that I am I am just got it right. I mean it that we audit and that it's true it's true and you know it is when salvation and what Jesus did for us really is overwhelming when you know the degree to which you were in trouble and under the wrath of God for sin and then you understand that the very God, under whose wrath we are was the same God who came to save us. You just want to worship him.
And that's exactly what we should do to pause for another Rt. Rev. Melvin Tinker is with us veiled in flashes his buck will be back right after this mother's womb has now become the un-Safest Pl. in America with abortion being the leading cause of death and babies being aborted up to term. In some states I was afraid I was skiing. I know what to do every byline we have all pre-born is the largest provider of free ultrasounds in the country, helping moms choose life. You see, when a mom and crisis sees her baby on ultrasound and here's the heartbeat she's 80% more likely to choose life for her baby and I was like wow, something inside of me is a beautiful thing he would you join with pre-born and Janet met her today and help save 400 babies by the end of this year for $140 you can sponsor five ultrasounds and now through match your tax-deductible gift is doubled saving 10 babies lives to donate, dial 855402, baby. That's 855-402-2229 or there's a banner to click and chant effort.com films and films comes over, coming to the right time for Christmas. When you find the one are you among the millions of Americans who feel uncertain when it comes to their healthcare right now is the only time of year you can do anything about it. So make the switch to liberty help share as a healthcare sharing ministry liberty. Healthcare is not insurance you can pick your program choose your own doctors and hospitals and choose when you sign up. They have programs for singles, couples and families all with no contracts starting at only $199 per month go to liberty help share.org/GMT that's liberty healthcare.org/GMT you're listening to Jared Mefford today and know you're welcome back. It's great to have you with us and it's great to be talking about the incarnation this hour with the Rev. Melvin Tinker. He is senior minister of St. John Newland Hall in the UK and also author of veiled in flash the incarnation what it means and why it matters I get into some of the questions that I sometimes hear Rev. Tinker because you're always good at fielding these questions and giving some good biblical answers to these sorts of things. One of the questions that I know has come up again and again throughout the years has been well if Jesus is fully God and fully man. Then when he died on the cross did God die and if God is eternal. How could God die.
How do we answer that question and told Wesley how can it be the immortal dies and back to one of the debates in the church to do with Jesus one person not to and that there was one theologian Michael Cyril of Alexandria, and he took on a how to comb the story is the story of basically said he could not believe he could he could not come for that baby in a in a manger. You could God, you said I could not call to a three-month-old baby gone in his mind junction between the divine nature and human nature. Once Harold is very pleasantly divine attributes and you think you to draw a list of divine attributes in the list of human attributes the divine attributes. He is the giver of life is everywhere. God knows everything from the skin tone is well with the guy is with Jesus.
What you can do. Must be able to take subject one category and think about the subject connected together and say well yes it was one person, Jesus life as they long was born of human he is everywhere you to log off book close in infancy command on the one is missing to noticeable human being who got your note you don't like conclusion gabbing day to Scripture, and so on long gone to possible subject yet so to say that on the cross, God died in the right clue sin you got called thought that what what we can say is that on the cross of Jesus belongs with God and man died, yes, that's good, that's exactly right. You don't have to get you become becomes nonsense right that's that's really well side, and I think that helps explain. Now here's another one and I know you bring this one up in your book as well. Some of the objections people will sometimes raise about the limits of the incarnation.
I don't even like saying it that way. But, for example, you look at Matthew 26, where Jesus is crying out in the garden of Gethsemane and he prays my father if it is possible, let this cup pass from me. Yet not as I will but as you well. So some people will read that verse and imply that the father and the son had two different wells.
How should we really understand that when were understanding that Jesus is the God man to wiggle kind of language you want to talk about somebody's will mean two things we can talk about that which you desire.
I will cover about talk like that. Will that is the exercise of active okay I am now going to put the Lawn make English, as you make me thirsty but I like that okay we have with with Jesus when Jesus prayed, not as I will, because you will one person will live clients through this human person is on the pass was a human design because he knew it was going to involve that with design but he exercises active will be submitted to will fault which actually is also the God will God's life that you to go for some yes you have a genuine struggle going on here Jesus you well and in terms of his desire.
You know he was terrified he would blot me to squeal, he felt that God visited Pete feel not to do with nature.
People felt it was the divine divine nature didn't get me to make you know is not like that person.
Person love and so here you have Jesus human consciousness.
Consciousness struggling fear of weakness and temptation in order to align and flow enough in the yet so I can will I will submit to the then God will also comes in to the one it would seem to me that one of the ways you could read that is to is to say that it demonstrates more than ever that Jesus was a real person. He wasn't just some kind of shadow of a man. He was a real person he was, as you say, sweating blood, and he was know that the horrors of you begin to twinkle.
I've been more real human.
That's right, this right, who is made of flesh and blood like without that's exactly he had in mind like a line which was breaking under that tremendous weight when using the garden alone. Father and strengthened himself his disciples.
They were sleep I can imagine that now that he would get take the whole thing will which would crush him this holy day fuel being was going to become the receptacle will of the entire will from beginning to end and he didn't deserve to die the whole thing about a short will willingly did for the glory of his but also for the sake yes and you see when you read the book again kept pretty well in the prayer and meditation. So, because Walt is meant to do is to drive us to worship and adoration will not play intellectual games.
We all coming from the truth.
But in order to have a great grand prize.
It should be a humbling experience to be like oh I can imagine the implications of the incarnation for our salvation are innumerable. In some ways because without the incarnation there would be no salvation.
This is, it seems we we really need to dig deeper into this doctrine, especially around Christmas time really dig into itů Great future because keep on being my Jesus and by the eternal gone long ago taken to help human nature without swimming divine nature that we will now unite that sweet incline. We are united with him. Yes, again, what speaks of the elder brother.
You know he is taking on flesh and blood not mean that question blot will also be would be so Jesus didn't come just to save souls but actually our entire being, because he has a five state, not we will glorified perfect state we go to be with the wonderful thing. Why talk about of the that we will judge angels line because we do not, to him, we think of the rotten father of being seated with Christ now been true, if not all the time. Absolutely, absolutely.
Man, there's so much but you gotta read of unveiled in/the incarnation what it means and why it matters by the Rev. Melvin Tinker, always wonderful to have you here Rev. Tinker. Thank you again for a wonderful book. And thanks for being with us always wonderful to have you as well. God bless you, thank you so much for being with us and we'll see you next time I Jennifer today